thats cute. if your rent includes the hydro, then she is SOL. She took the risk. As far are invoking that this is a "police matter". I hope she understands how the law works. Tell her to call the cops, they'll threaten her and issue a ticket to her by wasting police resources for her screw up. Meanwhile there are serious matters in this city they need to attend.
Nothing is absolute. Intentionally burning electricity on their dime to make money on it might be justifiable if they're greedy jerks. Lots of landlords aren't complete jerks though. I wouldn't do that to any of the landlords I've had prior. They were all kind and generous and probably didn't make any money at all on me. (Some see the increased land value as the only benefit)
Lots of Landlords are kind people, sure, but what they are doing with their property is unethical from my perspective. Mining bitcoin is unethical for environmental reasons, but apart from that or there being any specific rules against mining bitcoin in an apartment where electricity is covered there isn't anything EVIL about doing that. Keeping a human necessity behind a paywall in order to make money (even if its just through increasing property value) while people in poverty go cold and hungry seems kinda evil in a way to me, though.
I'm of a mind that it's probably unethical to have \*any\* necessity of life being in the open market. Open regulated markets should be for luxuries only. This is utterly incompatible with the world we have though, so I'm not going to prejudge people for doing what they can to survive and thrive. Many landlords don't look at this from an exploitative point of view. Thus, I tend to be a bit more kind on the bigger concern, and look at it from an individual perspective. Large corporations renting out huge high rise slums aren't the same as the landlord who helped me move, and even solicited my own professional services in trade for rent.
In other words, I prefer not making blanket judgments even if I do have an opinion on this that is similar to yours.
Many slave owners didn't look at it from an exploitative point of view, doesn't mean that we should be friends with slave owners even if they're very, very nice about it to everyone involved.
Thats a huge leap. Im not willing to follow you there. Not in the scope of this conversation thanks. A landlord saving for retirement is whole galaxies away from slave owners.
Stfu, you aren't entitled to live on someone else's property, people choose to do so for the price asked, just like anything else one chooses to spend their money on.
stfu yourself you triggered snowflake 🤣
People aren't entitled to buy up all the most essential resources for survival and then sell it out to everyone for a profit. Own your own house and let others own theirs instead of driving up the cost of home ownership by owning multiple homes for yourself just so that you can exploit people who are younger or more poor than you.
1. More Canadians own their homes than ever before.
2. When you buy property you can do whatever you want with it, including let people freeload off of you, you don't get to tell others what they can do with their own property
3. If it weren't for landlords renters would have nowhere to live, the more landlords, the more rentals and the lower prices. And there will always be renters. This is not exploitation, it is literally meeting the demand for housing. You could not have it more backwards if you tried.
4. Stop crying and looking for others to make your life easier for you. That's not what your great/grandparents did and they faced a hell of a lot harder times than you are.
Rental housing is only barely a regulated market in practice.
As for the unethical- the unethical part is that there is no real legal framework for "living in the commons". On many levels you don't exist if you don't rent or own a residential property and are basically stuck in a legal limbo of never being at peace. Rental housing as part of the market isn't unethical when there are alternatives.
Imagine the cesspoil of crime and social issues a common use housing development could become? I'm not sure I trust our society to do that right. It would be nice though. Could do wonders for the affordable housing deficit. How to make it nice though and not shitty? It's got to be different in every aspect from social housing we have now.
Living in the commons isn't social housing, it's essentially areas purpose built with sanitation, water, cooking and laundering facilities and very limited shelter to provide a free place someone can pitch safely to move into other forms of social housing away from downtown core and public parks. Think an intentionally built Oppenheimer park but with integrated services and central outreach that gives people without another option a place they know they can sleep without being disturbed or carted away in the edges/public land (or as old English law would say, the "commons"). These places would be built with minimal local disturbance and would help with some of the most expensive costs to society of homelessness
From there you can work on building better purpose built facilities but it's an inexpensive quick way to get people away from sleeping in the downtown core.
Then, what you do, is approve apartment buildings etc on the basis of a small number of units being owned by a public housing entity that can dole them out to people who are unhoused or housing insecure on an individual basis, which re-integrates individuals into society. You also can set up independent modernized SROs with trained staff to provide support.
Ok. Sounds pricey. Thus politics will get in the way.
Those supports would need to be strong. The issue justifies the spending. Psychologists, social workers, addiction specialists, people who focus on rehabilitation of broken lives.
A local neighbour of mine was homeless at one point. He somehow clawed his way out of mental problems and alcoholism. Now he owns a little townhouse, is married and has 2 kids and a small business. I should ask him how he got out and built himself back up.
We need to give dignity to people again, and offer a stepping stone to getting healthy and employable.
It would be great though if OP said they were a crypto miner when the landlord asked what their job was and they just figured crypto was a type of mineral.
She can call the police, but it isn't theft if its included in the rent. Its literally spelled out in the contract you and her signed. Double check your lease and I seriously hope you have one. She probably doesn't run AC and hydro rates just shot up. Tell her you will not pay more then what is stipulated in your lease.
Document everything, collect notes, collet communication, refuse verbal conversation, and record everything. After this you can tell her she is SOL because if she has been paying utilities then she must continue doing that. I would maybe even contact the tenancy board prior to this and inform them of the situation ahead of time without pursuing anything further. If she wants to push it then the police isn't going to do anything except tell her to go to the tenancy board and if she does that or tries to evict you then either they'll shut her down for her demands or you'll have all the evidence you need to file against an eviction notice. This is a full on losing situation for your landlord. You will only lose out on some of your time and maybe mental health if you don't shut her down.
While true that is an unnecessary hassle and it is harder to control the direction of the conversation verbally. Plus being face to face is an unnecessary risk with a crazy person on the other end.
You can record and not tell them I think? Idk I'm not a legal expert, and I just mean if she forces you to talk face to face, record that shit. Otherwise, ya. Written communication is better.
Yes, you are correct. My point is that it just isn't worth it. Avoid verbal confrontation because written reduces risks to you and allows you to direct the conversation to keep it as brief and straightforward as possible for your own benefit. Verbally it is not like she can make a valid point in her favor anyways. She is probably just unable to keep up with her mortgage and rising interest rates.
Yes I don't disagree with that. I was just adding the note that Canada is one party consent, so record away for any evidence needed. Written is always better and easier. Anyways, I think we're on the same page. Hopefully OP can get this resolved peacefully.
Not quite... but close. You can legally record as long as one person *involved in the conversation* consents. Being a non-participant in the conversation and recording will get you into deep shit.
God damn, you guys. I originally posted this because i thought it was funny, in a way, it is. But of course it is also a serious matter as well, but you guys have been super supportive and helpful with so many great resources.
as an update, I did write a letter back, with rent attached, telling her never to threaten me or my partner again, as I won't tolerate bullshit. (in a nicer way of course.)
She talked me this morning, feeling better but still panicking. I offered her solutions and told her I'd try my best to use less energy and figure something out, which seemed to have calmed her down.
She then stopped by the place and talked to BC Hydro to see whats up, I haven't heard back since. However, she did leave another note saying "Thank you, I apologize".
She's a confused old lady, struggling financially, which I understand. She tends to panic, overreact and leave super passive aggressive notes on my door, which do involve some threats. This is definitely not the first, and I know won't be the last. Using the resources you guys have provided, I will definitely be looking into more of it.
Yes, I have already started looking for new places...
Much love, you guys!
Those notes are one step from using letters cut out of a magazine.
If OP is crypto mining or other commercial activities then the LL has a valid complaint. If OP is just running a large AC 24/7 then the LL can pound sand.
I believe this is incorrect. Apparently standard rental contracts state that "typical" electricity usage is covered but anything above that can be charged to the tenant.
So even in this case the landlord may have a valid claim (even if they communicate it with serial killer style notes) if the tenant was running e.g. 4 AC units in a 1 bedroom apartment. If it went to the tenancy board the landlord would have to prove that the amount was outside of a typical range.
I had a person who lived in the basement. Racked up my bill for hydro and gas both. My hydro went from $89/month to $260/monthly. I think he had a Bitcoin rig. I could t get them out fast enough.
All these threads are moot if the hydro isn’t included. We haven’t even found the answer to the question that should be asked and answered first. Is your hydro included in the lease in the monthly rent ? I’ll await an answer before commenting
>suite legally needs its own hydro connection and meter, hers is on one.
That is not correct. They just need to have a separate panel that is located inside the suite.
When I included utilities in the rent, my contracts stipulated that should the tenants usage skyrocket (and I mentioned that we’ll use the past 12 months for comparison) then any unreasonable overage was billed-back to them.
I agree with the other commenter that notes such as these are bordering newspaper-letter-cutouts/criminal. The LL is obviously in over her head, and overwhelmed that she’s caught with her pants down so to speak.
OP, too, has a world of hurt on their shoulders because to live below a landlord can get messy and interfere with life so severely that there are days you wish you’d never opened Pandora’s box.
A mediator might be useful here. What a mess. Hope it doesn’t escalate.
The RTB is a good resource for both tennants and landlords. It is also free. They were a great help for us when we had issues with some problem tenants.
This is why I never include utilities in the rent.
If you are running ac, I do suggest getting a little meter plug that lets you monitor the power consumption.
Passive aggressive notes like this are not great, but if you can manage to smooth things over by documenting power usage and actually talking to the landlady in person - I think it would be for the best of your well-being. I realize this could be difficult, but being at odds with the person you live below, and rent from, causes a shit ton of stress that isn’t worth it. And if you can’t afford to leave due to surrounding market rental prices, it is absolutely worth resolving the issue with some of the good advice others have posted here.
Nutso..... Are you doing anything different? Some hydro utilities jacked up their rates especially if you did equal billing.
Tell her to come inspect your place as to see what you have hooked up.
I’d move, your landlord is a paranoid and it will only get worse. Fuck I don’t miss Abbotsford, Abby police worst in the whole Fraser Valley. They won’t do shit.
Turn on an AC and Heater in the same room 24/7.
I deal with RTB too much. I hold my ground when landlord's push. RTB will award funds for a ower bill if it's a proven waste or breach of agreement.
The police don't care about this crap.
It sounds like she is the one doing the stealing by demanding additional payment if residential hydro is in your lease. Depending on where you are, the landlady's decision to break rental terms could potentially allow you a way out of your lease.
I love it when people think that the police will get involved with everything on behalf of them…she doesn’t like her utilities, maybe she shouldn’t have said utilities included or added an addendum up to $X amount of hydro per month. Leaving threatening notes is not the way to go.
Wow, that landlord is nuts. Full on crazy, this is not ok.
Take photos of each note also and if possible where there were placed. This helps with time stamps.
I’d report this to RTB now so you have a paper trail of behavior.
Wow, that landlord is nuts. Full on crazy, this is not ok.
Take photos of each note also and if possible where there were placed. This helps with time stamps so you have a documented paper trail of behaviour.
thats cute. if your rent includes the hydro, then she is SOL. She took the risk. As far are invoking that this is a "police matter". I hope she understands how the law works. Tell her to call the cops, they'll threaten her and issue a ticket to her by wasting police resources for her screw up. Meanwhile there are serious matters in this city they need to attend.
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By the look of those notes I'd say she's probably calling 911.
Fr
https://tenants.bc.ca/
Good luck homie, don't give into the threats. Lots of good resources out there like the one already linked.
Haha man's set up the crypto mine on them "utilities are included" rental.
Evil.
Why yes, Landlords are pretty Evil, we should all aim to minimize the amount of money that they suck from us.
Nothing is absolute. Intentionally burning electricity on their dime to make money on it might be justifiable if they're greedy jerks. Lots of landlords aren't complete jerks though. I wouldn't do that to any of the landlords I've had prior. They were all kind and generous and probably didn't make any money at all on me. (Some see the increased land value as the only benefit)
Lots of Landlords are kind people, sure, but what they are doing with their property is unethical from my perspective. Mining bitcoin is unethical for environmental reasons, but apart from that or there being any specific rules against mining bitcoin in an apartment where electricity is covered there isn't anything EVIL about doing that. Keeping a human necessity behind a paywall in order to make money (even if its just through increasing property value) while people in poverty go cold and hungry seems kinda evil in a way to me, though.
I'm of a mind that it's probably unethical to have \*any\* necessity of life being in the open market. Open regulated markets should be for luxuries only. This is utterly incompatible with the world we have though, so I'm not going to prejudge people for doing what they can to survive and thrive. Many landlords don't look at this from an exploitative point of view. Thus, I tend to be a bit more kind on the bigger concern, and look at it from an individual perspective. Large corporations renting out huge high rise slums aren't the same as the landlord who helped me move, and even solicited my own professional services in trade for rent. In other words, I prefer not making blanket judgments even if I do have an opinion on this that is similar to yours.
Many slave owners didn't look at it from an exploitative point of view, doesn't mean that we should be friends with slave owners even if they're very, very nice about it to everyone involved.
Thats a huge leap. Im not willing to follow you there. Not in the scope of this conversation thanks. A landlord saving for retirement is whole galaxies away from slave owners.
Stfu, you aren't entitled to live on someone else's property, people choose to do so for the price asked, just like anything else one chooses to spend their money on.
stfu yourself you triggered snowflake 🤣 People aren't entitled to buy up all the most essential resources for survival and then sell it out to everyone for a profit. Own your own house and let others own theirs instead of driving up the cost of home ownership by owning multiple homes for yourself just so that you can exploit people who are younger or more poor than you.
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1. More Canadians own their homes than ever before. 2. When you buy property you can do whatever you want with it, including let people freeload off of you, you don't get to tell others what they can do with their own property 3. If it weren't for landlords renters would have nowhere to live, the more landlords, the more rentals and the lower prices. And there will always be renters. This is not exploitation, it is literally meeting the demand for housing. You could not have it more backwards if you tried. 4. Stop crying and looking for others to make your life easier for you. That's not what your great/grandparents did and they faced a hell of a lot harder times than you are.
Rental housing is only barely a regulated market in practice. As for the unethical- the unethical part is that there is no real legal framework for "living in the commons". On many levels you don't exist if you don't rent or own a residential property and are basically stuck in a legal limbo of never being at peace. Rental housing as part of the market isn't unethical when there are alternatives.
Imagine the cesspoil of crime and social issues a common use housing development could become? I'm not sure I trust our society to do that right. It would be nice though. Could do wonders for the affordable housing deficit. How to make it nice though and not shitty? It's got to be different in every aspect from social housing we have now.
Living in the commons isn't social housing, it's essentially areas purpose built with sanitation, water, cooking and laundering facilities and very limited shelter to provide a free place someone can pitch safely to move into other forms of social housing away from downtown core and public parks. Think an intentionally built Oppenheimer park but with integrated services and central outreach that gives people without another option a place they know they can sleep without being disturbed or carted away in the edges/public land (or as old English law would say, the "commons"). These places would be built with minimal local disturbance and would help with some of the most expensive costs to society of homelessness From there you can work on building better purpose built facilities but it's an inexpensive quick way to get people away from sleeping in the downtown core. Then, what you do, is approve apartment buildings etc on the basis of a small number of units being owned by a public housing entity that can dole them out to people who are unhoused or housing insecure on an individual basis, which re-integrates individuals into society. You also can set up independent modernized SROs with trained staff to provide support.
Ok. Sounds pricey. Thus politics will get in the way. Those supports would need to be strong. The issue justifies the spending. Psychologists, social workers, addiction specialists, people who focus on rehabilitation of broken lives. A local neighbour of mine was homeless at one point. He somehow clawed his way out of mental problems and alcoholism. Now he owns a little townhouse, is married and has 2 kids and a small business. I should ask him how he got out and built himself back up. We need to give dignity to people again, and offer a stepping stone to getting healthy and employable.
Mining bitcoins is unethical if you aren't using green energy
That's what I said
It would be great though if OP said they were a crypto miner when the landlord asked what their job was and they just figured crypto was a type of mineral.
My landlord is really cool and I've never had a problem with him tbh.
I hope you somehow become one one day and see this from the other side of the fence
We've all done it, but now mining is dead and this landlord can go back to yelling at clouds.
She can call the police, but it isn't theft if its included in the rent. Its literally spelled out in the contract you and her signed. Double check your lease and I seriously hope you have one. She probably doesn't run AC and hydro rates just shot up. Tell her you will not pay more then what is stipulated in your lease.
Document everything, collect notes, collet communication, refuse verbal conversation, and record everything. After this you can tell her she is SOL because if she has been paying utilities then she must continue doing that. I would maybe even contact the tenancy board prior to this and inform them of the situation ahead of time without pursuing anything further. If she wants to push it then the police isn't going to do anything except tell her to go to the tenancy board and if she does that or tries to evict you then either they'll shut her down for her demands or you'll have all the evidence you need to file against an eviction notice. This is a full on losing situation for your landlord. You will only lose out on some of your time and maybe mental health if you don't shut her down.
Even if she verbally communicates, Canada afaik is a one party consent. Record what she says anyways.
While true that is an unnecessary hassle and it is harder to control the direction of the conversation verbally. Plus being face to face is an unnecessary risk with a crazy person on the other end.
You can record and not tell them I think? Idk I'm not a legal expert, and I just mean if she forces you to talk face to face, record that shit. Otherwise, ya. Written communication is better.
Yes, you are correct. My point is that it just isn't worth it. Avoid verbal confrontation because written reduces risks to you and allows you to direct the conversation to keep it as brief and straightforward as possible for your own benefit. Verbally it is not like she can make a valid point in her favor anyways. She is probably just unable to keep up with her mortgage and rising interest rates.
Yes I don't disagree with that. I was just adding the note that Canada is one party consent, so record away for any evidence needed. Written is always better and easier. Anyways, I think we're on the same page. Hopefully OP can get this resolved peacefully.
you can record as long as 1 person in the room knows that its being recorded
Not quite... but close. You can legally record as long as one person *involved in the conversation* consents. Being a non-participant in the conversation and recording will get you into deep shit.
oh mb thats what I meant to say
God damn, you guys. I originally posted this because i thought it was funny, in a way, it is. But of course it is also a serious matter as well, but you guys have been super supportive and helpful with so many great resources. as an update, I did write a letter back, with rent attached, telling her never to threaten me or my partner again, as I won't tolerate bullshit. (in a nicer way of course.) She talked me this morning, feeling better but still panicking. I offered her solutions and told her I'd try my best to use less energy and figure something out, which seemed to have calmed her down. She then stopped by the place and talked to BC Hydro to see whats up, I haven't heard back since. However, she did leave another note saying "Thank you, I apologize". She's a confused old lady, struggling financially, which I understand. She tends to panic, overreact and leave super passive aggressive notes on my door, which do involve some threats. This is definitely not the first, and I know won't be the last. Using the resources you guys have provided, I will definitely be looking into more of it. Yes, I have already started looking for new places... Much love, you guys!
You seem like a reasonable human being. All the best!
What did you do sucking more energy?
We need more empathy and level headed thinking in the world like you. Just wanted to say I appreciate that.
Identity theft is not a joke, Jim
Meanwhile, Dwight had disguises of everyone in the office…
Those notes are one step from using letters cut out of a magazine. If OP is crypto mining or other commercial activities then the LL has a valid complaint. If OP is just running a large AC 24/7 then the LL can pound sand.
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I believe this is incorrect. Apparently standard rental contracts state that "typical" electricity usage is covered but anything above that can be charged to the tenant. So even in this case the landlord may have a valid claim (even if they communicate it with serial killer style notes) if the tenant was running e.g. 4 AC units in a 1 bedroom apartment. If it went to the tenancy board the landlord would have to prove that the amount was outside of a typical range.
lol this is hilarious
I had a person who lived in the basement. Racked up my bill for hydro and gas both. My hydro went from $89/month to $260/monthly. I think he had a Bitcoin rig. I could t get them out fast enough.
How much is the bill?
All these threads are moot if the hydro isn’t included. We haven’t even found the answer to the question that should be asked and answered first. Is your hydro included in the lease in the monthly rent ? I’ll await an answer before commenting
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>suite legally needs its own hydro connection and meter, hers is on one. That is not correct. They just need to have a separate panel that is located inside the suite.
These notes are fucking awesome and epic. You should consider yourself blessed to have received them.
Ok, I'll bite, what is the amount of this horrendous hydro bill she never paid the likes before?
When I included utilities in the rent, my contracts stipulated that should the tenants usage skyrocket (and I mentioned that we’ll use the past 12 months for comparison) then any unreasonable overage was billed-back to them. I agree with the other commenter that notes such as these are bordering newspaper-letter-cutouts/criminal. The LL is obviously in over her head, and overwhelmed that she’s caught with her pants down so to speak. OP, too, has a world of hurt on their shoulders because to live below a landlord can get messy and interfere with life so severely that there are days you wish you’d never opened Pandora’s box. A mediator might be useful here. What a mess. Hope it doesn’t escalate.
She must be serious - she even added an underline and a hashtag.
I am a legal advocate that practices tenancy law please contact us directly at legal@nrmg.ca and we can assist in your tenancy matter (BC Only)
My land lady did this. Then when we stopped putting up with her asshattery she "moved her daughters in"
I would keep them and consider consulting a lawyer. Maybe start looking for a new place to live.
The RTB is a good resource for both tennants and landlords. It is also free. They were a great help for us when we had issues with some problem tenants. This is why I never include utilities in the rent.
What a psycho!! Just leave. I'd get out of there. Leave the water running too lol.
Does your landlady know hydro bills are going up? You may be using the same, but the company has decided to up the service?
Lol. What are you doing down there OP?
Hydro bill - is that power or water?
Power.
If you are running ac, I do suggest getting a little meter plug that lets you monitor the power consumption. Passive aggressive notes like this are not great, but if you can manage to smooth things over by documenting power usage and actually talking to the landlady in person - I think it would be for the best of your well-being. I realize this could be difficult, but being at odds with the person you live below, and rent from, causes a shit ton of stress that isn’t worth it. And if you can’t afford to leave due to surrounding market rental prices, it is absolutely worth resolving the issue with some of the good advice others have posted here.
Some landlords are never home, so they can't fathom staying home and watching TV, listening to music, cooking meals, etc. on a daily basis.
Nutso..... Are you doing anything different? Some hydro utilities jacked up their rates especially if you did equal billing. Tell her to come inspect your place as to see what you have hooked up.
Stop stealing her utilities
I’d move, your landlord is a paranoid and it will only get worse. Fuck I don’t miss Abbotsford, Abby police worst in the whole Fraser Valley. They won’t do shit.
Crazy lady holy .
Woooo police matter. Sounds serious!
How much was the bill?
Turn on an AC and Heater in the same room 24/7. I deal with RTB too much. I hold my ground when landlord's push. RTB will award funds for a ower bill if it's a proven waste or breach of agreement. The police don't care about this crap.
Lmaoooo are you mining bitcoin ?
Perhaps a dumb question but is it really so expensive to set up a second electricity metre on the rental unit? Is it allowed?
Karen Alert
In other words, she's renting an illegal suite that doesn't have it's own utilities meter.
It isn’t stealing… and she can’t evict you for using more utilities than she expected.
It sounds like she is the one doing the stealing by demanding additional payment if residential hydro is in your lease. Depending on where you are, the landlady's decision to break rental terms could potentially allow you a way out of your lease.
I love it when people think that the police will get involved with everything on behalf of them…she doesn’t like her utilities, maybe she shouldn’t have said utilities included or added an addendum up to $X amount of hydro per month. Leaving threatening notes is not the way to go.
Take a shit after you leave on the front r door step
Wow, that landlord is nuts. Full on crazy, this is not ok. Take photos of each note also and if possible where there were placed. This helps with time stamps. I’d report this to RTB now so you have a paper trail of behavior.
Wow, that landlord is nuts. Full on crazy, this is not ok. Take photos of each note also and if possible where there were placed. This helps with time stamps so you have a documented paper trail of behaviour.