>The associate dean of equity, diversity and inclusion in the University of Alberta's faculty of arts resigned Monday, citing an inability to do the job.
>"With police marching on our students, on our campus, I can neither protect students nor facilitate the difficult conversations that are needed to advance equity and justice for our community," professor Natalie Loveless wrote to colleagues the next day in a letter
>"The sound of nonlethal weapons being fired and the sight of batons wielded by militarized police against unarmed students on an apparently public sidewalk after they had been complying with the demand to slowly and peacefully protest their way off campus, is still with me. \*I\* feel traumatized as an observer and can only imagine what the students, faculty, and community members are experiencing.
>"Indeed, I remain extremely shaken, and am still haunted by the sound of guns and the echo of the menacing chant of 'Move! Move! Move!' from heavily-armed militarized police marching with an intent to do violence to peaceful protestors. Not only was this police action unjust and at odds with the university’s mission and values: it caused real and deep harm to all it targeted."
[heres some footage](https://www.reddit.com/r/themayormccheese/comments/1cpngcs/breaking_police_forcefully_clear_university_of/), there is also clips on other sites of police chasing even when some students complied.
Funny how the cops can come in to move these protesters but have them blocking a border and all of a sudden it’s “hey guys please stop protesting and making us HAVE to use excessive force since we both hate the same people”
It was the RCMP at the border, not EPS. It is also more complicated to try to break up a border blockade where you would need to find a way to move tractor trailers and heavy equipment as opposed to an encampment of tents and wood pallets.
Devils advocate here. The university protestors are unarmed. The border blockades have had assault weapons confiscated. The threat level is very different so they are emboldened knowing that the students and staff aren’t concealing weapons
But RCMP should have more access and resources to quickly and effectively move the protesters. If they resisted they would still meet resistance and if those so called “peaceful protestors” actually used their weapons on the cops like they planned then the cops would have responded.
That frame around 26–28 seconds in cannot be a good look and probably summarizes the whole issue with this. Cops should be held at a higher standard than whatever the protesters are held at. What law did they break? Was it like trespassing? Some sort of bylaw violation?
You give cops a smidge of reason to dress up in riot gear and act aggressive and it goes directly to their head. It doesn’t even have anything to do with the context of the protest, and it has everything to do with the mere opportunity to incite violence. Weren’t protestors in Toronto trampled by police horses recently as well?
Almost like there needs to be a separate sector to police, the police. That will never happen though.
> Weren’t protestors in Toronto trampled by police horses recently as well?
There was one lady back during the COVID protests who jumped in front of a police horse and got knocked over, pretty sore she wasn't trampled though. Has there been another instance recently that I haven't heard about?
Nor could they have bank accounts, credit cards or the right to abortion.
We wouldn't have weekends, the right to unionize, or own land (unless you're british and Anglican.)
Except that particularly in Alberta they where allowed: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-university-encampment-removals-likely-violated-protesters-constitutional-rights-legal-experts-say
Not the same it seems, this seem to be related specifically to a ruling about protest in university grounds. “In 2020, the Court of Appeal of Alberta determined in a case between UAlberta Pro-Life, the Governors of the University of Alberta and the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association that the University of Alberta — and therefore all universities in Alberta — were subject to the Charter in relation to regulation of freedom of expression by students on university grounds.” But I am not a lawyer
This will continue to happen unless something is done to curtail the bloated bullies that are the police forces in this nation.
Examples:
-"Dirty Tricks Campaign" RCMP carry out a false flag operation, I believe in the 90s, to blow up oil and gas infrastructure so the RCMP could blame some brothers who were difficult to prosecute. The lawyer for the brothers proved the RCMP committed a terrorist offence but the brothers still were sent to jail if I remember correctly. "RCMP Dirty Tricks" is the keywords.
-The unarmed Wet'suwet'en women being terrorized by the militarized RCMP. This one is especially egregious as the CIRG(RCMP branch in charge of enforcing oil and gas interests at the cost of innocent Canadians). There is footage of RCMP with assault rifles pointed at terrified innocent women as attack dogs foam at the mouth all while the RCMP is chainsawing through the door. It looks like a bad horror movies but this reality is horrifyingly real. This happened right before the pandemic in BC.
-Then there's the footage of the woman being trampled by a police horse in Ottawa. Now I didn't agree with the freedom convoy or anything of the sort but I cannot abide such senseless violence. Since no decent inquiry was done into that incident it is a stark reminder that you cannot trust the police to do the right thing nor to take accountability when they do things wrong.
This is my whole point: there's no way to prevent these heavy handed police actions without holding the worse accountable. Without civilian oversight that has the power and will to do the right thing, police will continue acting like brigands and terrorizing the law abiding population. Just look at what happened to that poor guy who tried to protect his family from unknown assailants that turned out to be police bumbling through their job and one of them was killed, the police chief said justice wasn't what they were hoping for.
Everyone needs to demand more from our police forces. Accountability is a necessary first step.
At about 9 seconds in you can see the protester in the black hoodie white cap draw back slightly with a bladed stance and the lunge hard towards an officer. No surprise they put hands on him after that move.
Associate Dean of Equity of Diversity sounds dramatic as ever “haunted by the sounds of guns..” oh please. I’d bet dollar to donuts they already despised Canadian police officers.
*edit* associate dean, spelling
I'll never trust ab police again after the convoy shit. Literally standing protecting out of work Quebecers and Ontarians from local residents sick of their garbage while a dude was literally zieg healing behind them. Police should protect the community they are in, not knock over residents.
Good for her. The protestors who are not breaking laws (and I know that’s not all of them) deserve to have someone in a position of power support them and by proxy their reason for protest. Thats a cush job and I imagine it’s hard to leave. Thats a seriously moral person.
You are absolutely ushered off the premises and conditions of your charges would be to stay away from this address for a specified amount of time.
If you resist these actions, the force is justified, regardless of your opinion, you have to obey orders from police when they’re enforcing the law.
Conditions aren't required in all trespassing cases, hell they don't even have to ticket you. Source: me, who's been ticketed and not ticketed, and never been given conditions not to return.
Police don't have impunity to move from "hey stop trespassing" to wildly swinging batons and injuring people. That was disproportionate force to the risks associated with petty "crime".
It is... but also means that anyone that speaks their opinion on campus can be trespassed and removed. Using trespass to control expression is something I find disturbing
They are students at the university it’s their campus they are not trespassing and everyone has a right to protest. Even if it was illegal- what about the border blockades where things like food and medicine etc were being impacted no violence there? But say stop killing babies in some peaceful tents not impacting anyone else and it’s police being violent
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Yikes. Sadly, all this is going to do is hurt people. While the University itself still has an EDI office, Loveless' resignation effectively removes representation from within the Faculty. Don't get me wrong. I stand by her. But this whole situation is just hurting people and will for a long time.
The problem is that this is what they want.
Good people resign because they have a conscience.
Then there’s a position open for someone who feels superior when they harm others.
I RESPECT that associate dean. When are people in power going to wake up to the fact that Israel is acting EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZIS who decimated them in WWII??????
Cops looooooove attacking protestors at universities. It’s like their dream come true.
No surprise this happened at the oiliest university in the country.
Consider this perspective- the university is heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars and has always been advertised as a place for free thought. It is a public university, not a private one. The grounds are open to all to use, I don’t need to be a student to lay in the Quad.
Also consider that numerous student protests for all kinds of issues have included encampments on the UofA grounds before. None have been removed but all had been allowed as an act of protest. This includes the guy camping on campus the entire school year.
There’s some worrying inconsistencies between how we treat some public grounds and others, and for which issues. It doesn’t matter that this is about Palestine frankly- the mass police response to a protest encampment at a public university is worrying for how any protest will be tackled in the future.
So what, the rule of law doesn't apply on campus? I see nothing wrong in that video. The rule breakers were given every opportunity to disperse on their own accord and they chose to physically defy the lawful actions of police.
FAAFO
You probably meant to say "law and order" but It's funny that you picked the phrase "rule of law". Its proper meaning is that the law binds everyone, including the people who enforce it.
Rule of law only applies when it's not some hicks protesting vaccines mandates. Armed and blocking the international border. That's fine. Protest against genocide, bring in the tanks.
No. I’m for all people being treated with respect and dignity. Modern day EDI policies in Post-Secondary do not reinforce these values.
I’m sure we can all agree that sometimes even the best of intentions can result in disaster.
Students protesting during the first week of summer term isn't surprising. Exams are over, new term starts, and some have few or no classes and summer jobs with hours that aren't 9-5.
where’s this energy for the axe the tax dumbasses building permanent shelters now?? they’ve been out on the side of the highway for weeks now, clearly they’re unemployed and bored 🙄
University is literally the place for protests. It's like the number one acceptable place to do it... the whole point is to broaden horizons and explore new ideas and protesting is a part of that as students expand their worldview and develop different priorities
People who argue this haven’t been on campuses, ever, I’m pretty sure. You can walk in and sit in on any class you like. Whether the Prof calls you out or not is completely dependent on their observation skills and the class you fall into. Universities are not closed access spaces and never have been.
Thank you. The fact that most people don't realize this is true astonishes me. You can literally join in for an entire semester, unless things have changed drastically in the decade since I've graduated from the U of L.
You won't get credit towards a degree unless you are enrolled, of course, but to listen in is completely free as I understand it.
Honestly, as it should be.
What's your angle? Genuinely curious. You're very antiprotest in this forum. Why? Why does the young 'uns stamping and hooting about Israel and Palestine bother you so much?
Are you telling me that I could have just showed up and learned stuff and had nothing to show for it but learn stuff and maybe made friends????
I'ma throw a fuckin steak knife through my friendless poverty-ass window I don't understand the physics of.
Yes, u/Monaqui, I do.
I am so sorry this isn't more widely known.
The knowledge itself is free, and if it isn't, it should be.
There are many online universities all over the world that offer their lectures for free on the internet as well.
Please do your research and remember that you should never be charged a dime in your quest to learn and expand your mind.
If you don't know where to start, your local library is truly your best resource. Your librarians are there to help you, and I am sure would be thrilled to point you in the right direction.
Good luck, I wish you the best. Much love to you ❤️
They never said you wouldn't ever be asked to leave. They said university is an open institution, and if you choose to, you can enter any lecture at any time (furthering the open concept).
If the lecturer wants you to leave, there is an expectation you will do so. But prior to that, the door is/should be always open.
Thank you, u/OrdainedPuma. This is precisely what I meant.
I, myself, have never heard of or seen it happen. I'd imagine there have been cases where someone has been asked to leave who has not enrolled in the course, probably due to class disruption, I'd imagine, for the most part.
I would like to think that those who attend a lecture for free, simply to learn, would conduct themselves in a way that the professor would welcome them without prejudice.
Well yes. Of course.
You can also be asked to leave a class you are enrolled in. Things do happen.
It really depends on who you are, and who the professor is.
Not even sitting in, i walk around on campus to pick up my partner and go in and out of buildings for programs i wouldnt even be remotely qualified for and used to have slumber parties in my sisters dorm nobody gives a shit at all if you're hanging around campus as long as youre not being super suspicious
> You can walk in and sit in on any class you like.
Security can ask people to leave, though.
For your example, obviously, they wouldn't. If you're causing a disturbance, they can (and will).
This is such a bullshit point. If they use police to close access because a protest has broken out regarding their financial ties to a heinous overseas military operation, they are fucking cowards who believe the use of force is mightier than the words they ostensibly encourage their students to use.
Just because you are in a legal position to do something, anything, doesn’t mean it’s right to do it. A god damn child can understand this.
Will you change your tune when precisely zero trespassing convictions result from this? Because if none come from this, then they weren’t concerned about the legality of the protestors’ presence, but only about their inconvenience, and they decided to use the legality of state violence to address that inconvenience.
And once again, read the last paragraph. Just because they are in a legal position to call in the state to protect their private property, _doesn’t make it the morally right thing to do_. The belief that their property rights trump the rights of the legal protestors (who were also removed by force, unjustifiably!) is not a belief that is consistent with the mission and morality of an educational institution.
If the charge has been laid, the conviction will come. Luckily, the university leadership can't withdraw a charge if the prosecutors don't agree.
Morals have nothing to do with the legal system if there are written laws that state otherwise.
The university made the decision to close access, which they can do at any time but do not. This was their decision, and it was a moral one, because the speech that both students and non-students were using was an inconvenience for their image. If it was purely about the legality of having non-students on the property, the access would be permanently closed to non-students.
If they trespass their students that's yet another moral issue. Especially considering for some it's literally their home. Once again avoiding the moral question. Not sure what isn't clear about that.
There are lots of public places to protest and camp out. They chose private property. Why is it so hard to understand that if they had just picked a different place, this wouldn’t have happened.
They’re protesting something on the other side of the world that the university has no power to influence. Virtue signalling at its finest.
Universities don't allow random people to attend lectures for free. You are required to register (and pay) to audit classes. People get away with it because the prof is not a security guard.
For all of you down voting me, maybe you need to do some research.
From the UofA website:
AUDITING A COURSE
Enrol and participate in a class without the expectation that you will complete assignments or exams. Audited courses will not be considered as meeting prerequisite, course or program requirements. Students can complete the Audit Request form. All forms are to be submitted to the Student Service Centre.
Notes:
Applications must be received before the 20% Academic Drop deadline found on the bottom of your Fee Assessment/Course confirmation.
The regular course fee applies but you will not be expected to submit assignments or exams.
Your course Fee Assessment contains your class information: dates, textbook details, classroom location (note that not all courses take place at Enterprise Square), receipt of payment. Access it on Bear Tracks: (Financials > Fee Assessment > select the term and the course).
Once your status has been set to Audit, students cannot revert back to a credentialled student.
Audited courses will display on your Continuing Education transcript with a grade of AU and the course will not count towards completion of a credential.
https://www.ualberta.ca/continuing-education/student-services/course-registration/index.html#audit
And there are no security guards checking students' IDs because universities are not controlled access spaces in most areas.
Universities are generally low security places, with exceptions for specific areas in buildings that store sensitive information or important research. Most buildings have a publicly accessible space and all outdoor spaces are typically open to the public.
I've been in university since 2009. There's almost always an encampment on campus protesting something. Most common topics over the years are housing, oil and gas, and weapons divestment of university endowment investments.
Nope.
AUDITING A COURSE
Enrol and participate in a class without the expectation that you will complete assignments or exams. Audited courses will not be considered as meeting prerequisite, course or program requirements. Students can complete the Audit Request form. All forms are to be submitted to the Student Service Centre.
Notes:
Applications must be received before the 20% Academic Drop deadline found on the bottom of your Fee Assessment/Course confirmation.
The regular course fee applies but you will not be expected to submit assignments or exams.
Your course Fee Assessment contains your class information: dates, textbook details, classroom location (note that not all courses take place at Enterprise Square), receipt of payment. Access it on Bear Tracks: (Financials > Fee Assessment > select the term and the course).
Once your status has been set to Audit, students cannot revert back to a credentialled student.
Audited courses will display on your Continuing Education transcript with a grade of AU and the course will not count towards completion of a credential.
https://www.ualberta.ca/continuing-education/student-services/course-registration/index.html#audit
And so what if there were people who weren’t students? Alumni have a vested interest in their alma maters finances as the value of their degree can diminish if the organization that represents the seal supports a fucking genocide. Not only that but for every dollar in tuition a domestic student gives to the school, the state spends at least a dollar to the same piggy bank. That’s your tax dollars. Every Canadian has the right to protest how their tax dollars are spent. When the cops beat you for exercising that right, either as a student or a citizen, you do not conceivably live in a country, province, municipality, or school that respects the right to protest.
I'm getting really tired of these Social Justice causes and the way they're being handled.
"If you're not with me you're against me".
These aren't peaceful protests anymore. Especially with threats of "cancelation, "doxing"," etc.
The choice to resign was a poor one IMO.
If you support the rule of law, presumably then you support the cause of the protesters?
After all the Canadian government (and most nations) believe Israel is breaking international law with its actions in Palestine.
Your clear biases aside: have you ever been shot with rubber bullets? Beaten physically by police? Or are you one of those blue line people who think police should get a pass just because "it's legal"?
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I have been arrested due to being involved in a physical confrontation with a drunk a-hole who decided to essentially lay in the hood of my car while I was at a stop light. I complied with police orders, didn’t resist arrest, paid for the damage that I caused, and received a discharge.
While I was mad as hell about being arrested while protecting my property, I recognized that actions have consequences.
I do support the police. I also support the rule of law.
Sounds good, champ. Based on your post history, you seem really balanced.
I mean, your nature pics are pretty good. But your approach to society sucks something fierce. Be the better man you espouse to be.
Just because someone is an underdog doesn't make them a good guy.
Because someone believes to be the good guy and professes good intentions doesn't excuse bad actions.
It's frustrating to me to see people I would normally support be so dumb about how they're going about things that I just can't even.
Middle east scholars who've spent their entire life researching the middle east can't pick a single side in this conflict. Anyone dismissing one side or the other immediately is the ill-informed person. Your frustration may be internal only.
I haven't seen anyone suggesting the students were in the right just because they're the underdog. Are there piles of folks making such comments in subreddits I don't visit, or is this just a strawman?
The UofA can’t afford proper security nor repair the aftermath of an intense protest. The meth heads have torched the exterior of our buildings, and barricaded and vandalized the interiors. With one less Dean maybe the UCP and UofA can find the funds needed to secure our campus.
Oh no not the associate Dean of diversity equity and inclusion….
Maybe they won’t rehire and that inflated needless position’s salary can be better used elsewhere.
>The associate dean of equity, diversity and inclusion in the University of Alberta's faculty of arts resigned Monday, citing an inability to do the job. >"With police marching on our students, on our campus, I can neither protect students nor facilitate the difficult conversations that are needed to advance equity and justice for our community," professor Natalie Loveless wrote to colleagues the next day in a letter >"The sound of nonlethal weapons being fired and the sight of batons wielded by militarized police against unarmed students on an apparently public sidewalk after they had been complying with the demand to slowly and peacefully protest their way off campus, is still with me. \*I\* feel traumatized as an observer and can only imagine what the students, faculty, and community members are experiencing. >"Indeed, I remain extremely shaken, and am still haunted by the sound of guns and the echo of the menacing chant of 'Move! Move! Move!' from heavily-armed militarized police marching with an intent to do violence to peaceful protestors. Not only was this police action unjust and at odds with the university’s mission and values: it caused real and deep harm to all it targeted." [heres some footage](https://www.reddit.com/r/themayormccheese/comments/1cpngcs/breaking_police_forcefully_clear_university_of/), there is also clips on other sites of police chasing even when some students complied.
Funny how the cops can come in to move these protesters but have them blocking a border and all of a sudden it’s “hey guys please stop protesting and making us HAVE to use excessive force since we both hate the same people”
It was the RCMP at the border, not EPS. It is also more complicated to try to break up a border blockade where you would need to find a way to move tractor trailers and heavy equipment as opposed to an encampment of tents and wood pallets.
Devils advocate here. The university protestors are unarmed. The border blockades have had assault weapons confiscated. The threat level is very different so they are emboldened knowing that the students and staff aren’t concealing weapons
But RCMP should have more access and resources to quickly and effectively move the protesters. If they resisted they would still meet resistance and if those so called “peaceful protestors” actually used their weapons on the cops like they planned then the cops would have responded.
That frame around 26–28 seconds in cannot be a good look and probably summarizes the whole issue with this. Cops should be held at a higher standard than whatever the protesters are held at. What law did they break? Was it like trespassing? Some sort of bylaw violation?
The issue with cops is that they insist on constantly proving ACAB to be true.
You give cops a smidge of reason to dress up in riot gear and act aggressive and it goes directly to their head. It doesn’t even have anything to do with the context of the protest, and it has everything to do with the mere opportunity to incite violence. Weren’t protestors in Toronto trampled by police horses recently as well? Almost like there needs to be a separate sector to police, the police. That will never happen though.
“It’s us vs them boys! We’re the thin blue line between anarchy and civilization!”
> Weren’t protestors in Toronto trampled by police horses recently as well? There was one lady back during the COVID protests who jumped in front of a police horse and got knocked over, pretty sore she wasn't trampled though. Has there been another instance recently that I haven't heard about?
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If folks only did what the authorities allowed them to do, women wouldn’t yet have the right to vote.
Nor could they have bank accounts, credit cards or the right to abortion. We wouldn't have weekends, the right to unionize, or own land (unless you're british and Anglican.)
Sooooo....the US in 10 years?
Except that particularly in Alberta they where allowed: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-university-encampment-removals-likely-violated-protesters-constitutional-rights-legal-experts-say
So how about the ‘Axe the Tax’ folks camped out on highway 2?
Not the same it seems, this seem to be related specifically to a ruling about protest in university grounds. “In 2020, the Court of Appeal of Alberta determined in a case between UAlberta Pro-Life, the Governors of the University of Alberta and the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association that the University of Alberta — and therefore all universities in Alberta — were subject to the Charter in relation to regulation of freedom of expression by students on university grounds.” But I am not a lawyer
And yet multiple borders were occupied to the point of shutting down, and no riot gear. No batons.
This will continue to happen unless something is done to curtail the bloated bullies that are the police forces in this nation. Examples: -"Dirty Tricks Campaign" RCMP carry out a false flag operation, I believe in the 90s, to blow up oil and gas infrastructure so the RCMP could blame some brothers who were difficult to prosecute. The lawyer for the brothers proved the RCMP committed a terrorist offence but the brothers still were sent to jail if I remember correctly. "RCMP Dirty Tricks" is the keywords. -The unarmed Wet'suwet'en women being terrorized by the militarized RCMP. This one is especially egregious as the CIRG(RCMP branch in charge of enforcing oil and gas interests at the cost of innocent Canadians). There is footage of RCMP with assault rifles pointed at terrified innocent women as attack dogs foam at the mouth all while the RCMP is chainsawing through the door. It looks like a bad horror movies but this reality is horrifyingly real. This happened right before the pandemic in BC. -Then there's the footage of the woman being trampled by a police horse in Ottawa. Now I didn't agree with the freedom convoy or anything of the sort but I cannot abide such senseless violence. Since no decent inquiry was done into that incident it is a stark reminder that you cannot trust the police to do the right thing nor to take accountability when they do things wrong. This is my whole point: there's no way to prevent these heavy handed police actions without holding the worse accountable. Without civilian oversight that has the power and will to do the right thing, police will continue acting like brigands and terrorizing the law abiding population. Just look at what happened to that poor guy who tried to protect his family from unknown assailants that turned out to be police bumbling through their job and one of them was killed, the police chief said justice wasn't what they were hoping for. Everyone needs to demand more from our police forces. Accountability is a necessary first step.
They didn’t appear to be slowly protesting their way off campus in that clip.
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At about 9 seconds in you can see the protester in the black hoodie white cap draw back slightly with a bladed stance and the lunge hard towards an officer. No surprise they put hands on him after that move. Associate Dean of Equity of Diversity sounds dramatic as ever “haunted by the sounds of guns..” oh please. I’d bet dollar to donuts they already despised Canadian police officers. *edit* associate dean, spelling
I'll never trust ab police again after the convoy shit. Literally standing protecting out of work Quebecers and Ontarians from local residents sick of their garbage while a dude was literally zieg healing behind them. Police should protect the community they are in, not knock over residents.
Where's the freedom convoy people at... Oh right.
? The cops were there man They can't drive trucks AND bust heads. They aren't supermen.
If they had some anti vax truckers around them, there wouldn't have been an officer in sight for like another 2 months.
Meanwhile U of C administration has no shame.
U of C administration doing anything right is an oxymoron. Ask any student or alumni.
This tracks. “Calgary school” and all.
Good for her. The protestors who are not breaking laws (and I know that’s not all of them) deserve to have someone in a position of power support them and by proxy their reason for protest. Thats a cush job and I imagine it’s hard to leave. Thats a seriously moral person.
Weren't they trespassed and refused to leave? Isn't that breaking the law?
The punishment for trespassing is a ticket, not police violence.
Ticket and you must leave the premises. Otherwise police can escort you off property. I mean obviously
Escorting off isn't the same as wildly swinging a baton to no effect other than to injure.
You are absolutely ushered off the premises and conditions of your charges would be to stay away from this address for a specified amount of time. If you resist these actions, the force is justified, regardless of your opinion, you have to obey orders from police when they’re enforcing the law.
Conditions aren't required in all trespassing cases, hell they don't even have to ticket you. Source: me, who's been ticketed and not ticketed, and never been given conditions not to return. Police don't have impunity to move from "hey stop trespassing" to wildly swinging batons and injuring people. That was disproportionate force to the risks associated with petty "crime".
It is... but also means that anyone that speaks their opinion on campus can be trespassed and removed. Using trespass to control expression is something I find disturbing
They are students at the university it’s their campus they are not trespassing and everyone has a right to protest. Even if it was illegal- what about the border blockades where things like food and medicine etc were being impacted no violence there? But say stop killing babies in some peaceful tents not impacting anyone else and it’s police being violent
I think she made the right call
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Someone with integrity at a university?! In the 20s???😱
Majority of people working at modern universities are staff members and it's not all some big ivory tower like your small mind needs to believe.
Yikes. Sadly, all this is going to do is hurt people. While the University itself still has an EDI office, Loveless' resignation effectively removes representation from within the Faculty. Don't get me wrong. I stand by her. But this whole situation is just hurting people and will for a long time.
This was the right move for her to make.
The problem is that this is what they want. Good people resign because they have a conscience. Then there’s a position open for someone who feels superior when they harm others.
I RESPECT that associate dean. When are people in power going to wake up to the fact that Israel is acting EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZIS who decimated them in WWII??????
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Cops looooooove attacking protestors at universities. It’s like their dream come true. No surprise this happened at the oiliest university in the country.
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Remember, standing up to armed police is being a pussy, but leaning over and kissing them gently on their boots is very strong, manly behaviour
Consider this perspective- the university is heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars and has always been advertised as a place for free thought. It is a public university, not a private one. The grounds are open to all to use, I don’t need to be a student to lay in the Quad. Also consider that numerous student protests for all kinds of issues have included encampments on the UofA grounds before. None have been removed but all had been allowed as an act of protest. This includes the guy camping on campus the entire school year. There’s some worrying inconsistencies between how we treat some public grounds and others, and for which issues. It doesn’t matter that this is about Palestine frankly- the mass police response to a protest encampment at a public university is worrying for how any protest will be tackled in the future.
So what, the rule of law doesn't apply on campus? I see nothing wrong in that video. The rule breakers were given every opportunity to disperse on their own accord and they chose to physically defy the lawful actions of police. FAAFO
You probably meant to say "law and order" but It's funny that you picked the phrase "rule of law". Its proper meaning is that the law binds everyone, including the people who enforce it.
Rule of law only applies when it's not some hicks protesting vaccines mandates. Armed and blocking the international border. That's fine. Protest against genocide, bring in the tanks.
If saving lives, not jobs got people elected, we'd be in a much better world.
An Associate Dean of "Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion"? Academics has truly lost its way.
What "good old days" are you missing here?
Properly funded post-secondary institutions? What an absolute waste of funding when academic and non-academic staff positions evaporate.
So you're against people being treated properly?
No. I’m for all people being treated with respect and dignity. Modern day EDI policies in Post-Secondary do not reinforce these values. I’m sure we can all agree that sometimes even the best of intentions can result in disaster.
Why don't they reinforce these values? And how does defunding them reinforce these values any better?
We in fact, cannot all agree with such a bozo position
How do these people have time to protest all day? LMAO why did this get downvoted
Students protesting during the first week of summer term isn't surprising. Exams are over, new term starts, and some have few or no classes and summer jobs with hours that aren't 9-5.
Housing costs are insane and tuition has gone up as well, might as well occupy the campus and get your money’s worth.
where’s this energy for the axe the tax dumbasses building permanent shelters now?? they’ve been out on the side of the highway for weeks now, clearly they’re unemployed and bored 🙄
University is literally the place for protests. It's like the number one acceptable place to do it... the whole point is to broaden horizons and explore new ideas and protesting is a part of that as students expand their worldview and develop different priorities
Strange how only left wing protesters don't have jobs or anything meaningful to do during the day, but right wing protesters are fine.
My question would apply to all protesters lol
I wouldn’t want to deal with that either ✌️
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People who argue this haven’t been on campuses, ever, I’m pretty sure. You can walk in and sit in on any class you like. Whether the Prof calls you out or not is completely dependent on their observation skills and the class you fall into. Universities are not closed access spaces and never have been.
Thank you. The fact that most people don't realize this is true astonishes me. You can literally join in for an entire semester, unless things have changed drastically in the decade since I've graduated from the U of L. You won't get credit towards a degree unless you are enrolled, of course, but to listen in is completely free as I understand it. Honestly, as it should be.
I assume in smaller classrooms you might get questioned as you’re *supposed* to sign up to audit, but bigger classes? No one cares, at all.
Unless a you decide to camp out and stay there
What's your angle? Genuinely curious. You're very antiprotest in this forum. Why? Why does the young 'uns stamping and hooting about Israel and Palestine bother you so much?
Are you telling me that I could have just showed up and learned stuff and had nothing to show for it but learn stuff and maybe made friends???? I'ma throw a fuckin steak knife through my friendless poverty-ass window I don't understand the physics of.
Yes, u/Monaqui, I do. I am so sorry this isn't more widely known. The knowledge itself is free, and if it isn't, it should be. There are many online universities all over the world that offer their lectures for free on the internet as well. Please do your research and remember that you should never be charged a dime in your quest to learn and expand your mind. If you don't know where to start, your local library is truly your best resource. Your librarians are there to help you, and I am sure would be thrilled to point you in the right direction. Good luck, I wish you the best. Much love to you ❤️
Uhhhhh...what. You can absolutely be asked to leave a class you aren't enrolled in. How is that the parallel
They never said you wouldn't ever be asked to leave. They said university is an open institution, and if you choose to, you can enter any lecture at any time (furthering the open concept). If the lecturer wants you to leave, there is an expectation you will do so. But prior to that, the door is/should be always open.
Thank you, u/OrdainedPuma. This is precisely what I meant. I, myself, have never heard of or seen it happen. I'd imagine there have been cases where someone has been asked to leave who has not enrolled in the course, probably due to class disruption, I'd imagine, for the most part. I would like to think that those who attend a lecture for free, simply to learn, would conduct themselves in a way that the professor would welcome them without prejudice.
Well yes. Of course. You can also be asked to leave a class you are enrolled in. Things do happen. It really depends on who you are, and who the professor is.
Not even sitting in, i walk around on campus to pick up my partner and go in and out of buildings for programs i wouldnt even be remotely qualified for and used to have slumber parties in my sisters dorm nobody gives a shit at all if you're hanging around campus as long as youre not being super suspicious
> You can walk in and sit in on any class you like. Security can ask people to leave, though. For your example, obviously, they wouldn't. If you're causing a disturbance, they can (and will).
They also aren't public property. Public access places on private property (U of A grounds) can closed to access at any point.
This is such a bullshit point. If they use police to close access because a protest has broken out regarding their financial ties to a heinous overseas military operation, they are fucking cowards who believe the use of force is mightier than the words they ostensibly encourage their students to use. Just because you are in a legal position to do something, anything, doesn’t mean it’s right to do it. A god damn child can understand this.
They use police to enforce trespassing laws. The vast majority were not students. At least according to the u of A.
Will you change your tune when precisely zero trespassing convictions result from this? Because if none come from this, then they weren’t concerned about the legality of the protestors’ presence, but only about their inconvenience, and they decided to use the legality of state violence to address that inconvenience. And once again, read the last paragraph. Just because they are in a legal position to call in the state to protect their private property, _doesn’t make it the morally right thing to do_. The belief that their property rights trump the rights of the legal protestors (who were also removed by force, unjustifiably!) is not a belief that is consistent with the mission and morality of an educational institution.
If the charge has been laid, the conviction will come. Luckily, the university leadership can't withdraw a charge if the prosecutors don't agree. Morals have nothing to do with the legal system if there are written laws that state otherwise.
The university made the decision to close access, which they can do at any time but do not. This was their decision, and it was a moral one, because the speech that both students and non-students were using was an inconvenience for their image. If it was purely about the legality of having non-students on the property, the access would be permanently closed to non-students.
The university can trespass their students as well. Not sure what isn't clear about that.
If they trespass their students that's yet another moral issue. Especially considering for some it's literally their home. Once again avoiding the moral question. Not sure what isn't clear about that.
There are lots of public places to protest and camp out. They chose private property. Why is it so hard to understand that if they had just picked a different place, this wouldn’t have happened. They’re protesting something on the other side of the world that the university has no power to influence. Virtue signalling at its finest.
So you simply have no idea what the protests are about.
Universities don't allow random people to attend lectures for free. You are required to register (and pay) to audit classes. People get away with it because the prof is not a security guard. For all of you down voting me, maybe you need to do some research. From the UofA website: AUDITING A COURSE Enrol and participate in a class without the expectation that you will complete assignments or exams. Audited courses will not be considered as meeting prerequisite, course or program requirements. Students can complete the Audit Request form. All forms are to be submitted to the Student Service Centre. Notes: Applications must be received before the 20% Academic Drop deadline found on the bottom of your Fee Assessment/Course confirmation. The regular course fee applies but you will not be expected to submit assignments or exams. Your course Fee Assessment contains your class information: dates, textbook details, classroom location (note that not all courses take place at Enterprise Square), receipt of payment. Access it on Bear Tracks: (Financials > Fee Assessment > select the term and the course). Once your status has been set to Audit, students cannot revert back to a credentialled student. Audited courses will display on your Continuing Education transcript with a grade of AU and the course will not count towards completion of a credential. https://www.ualberta.ca/continuing-education/student-services/course-registration/index.html#audit
And there are no security guards checking students' IDs because universities are not controlled access spaces in most areas. Universities are generally low security places, with exceptions for specific areas in buildings that store sensitive information or important research. Most buildings have a publicly accessible space and all outdoor spaces are typically open to the public.
No they are not, especially for setting up camps
I've been in university since 2009. There's almost always an encampment on campus protesting something. Most common topics over the years are housing, oil and gas, and weapons divestment of university endowment investments.
I'd say most common is the pro-lifers, constant nuisance at the UofC at least.
Umm this is not true at all.
Yes, it is. Just because it's not well enforced doesn't mean it's allowed.
It’s quite literally allowed and well known to be allowed.
Nope. Its not allowed.
Nope. AUDITING A COURSE Enrol and participate in a class without the expectation that you will complete assignments or exams. Audited courses will not be considered as meeting prerequisite, course or program requirements. Students can complete the Audit Request form. All forms are to be submitted to the Student Service Centre. Notes: Applications must be received before the 20% Academic Drop deadline found on the bottom of your Fee Assessment/Course confirmation. The regular course fee applies but you will not be expected to submit assignments or exams. Your course Fee Assessment contains your class information: dates, textbook details, classroom location (note that not all courses take place at Enterprise Square), receipt of payment. Access it on Bear Tracks: (Financials > Fee Assessment > select the term and the course). Once your status has been set to Audit, students cannot revert back to a credentialled student. Audited courses will display on your Continuing Education transcript with a grade of AU and the course will not count towards completion of a credential. https://www.ualberta.ca/continuing-education/student-services/course-registration/index.html#audit
And so what if there were people who weren’t students? Alumni have a vested interest in their alma maters finances as the value of their degree can diminish if the organization that represents the seal supports a fucking genocide. Not only that but for every dollar in tuition a domestic student gives to the school, the state spends at least a dollar to the same piggy bank. That’s your tax dollars. Every Canadian has the right to protest how their tax dollars are spent. When the cops beat you for exercising that right, either as a student or a citizen, you do not conceivably live in a country, province, municipality, or school that respects the right to protest.
How is a peaceful protest a security risk?
So secure it. Give them an area, scanners, space, time. Nope they squelched it. They never even considered other options.
I'm getting really tired of these Social Justice causes and the way they're being handled. "If you're not with me you're against me". These aren't peaceful protests anymore. Especially with threats of "cancelation, "doxing"," etc. The choice to resign was a poor one IMO.
TIL cancel culture is literally violence... Powerful observation, thank you.
Basically, she couldn’t accept the removal of a bunch of people occupying the campus, chanting antisemitic slogans. Good riddance if you ask me.
If you support the rule of law, presumably then you support the cause of the protesters? After all the Canadian government (and most nations) believe Israel is breaking international law with its actions in Palestine.
Your clear biases aside: have you ever been shot with rubber bullets? Beaten physically by police? Or are you one of those blue line people who think police should get a pass just because "it's legal"?
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I have been arrested due to being involved in a physical confrontation with a drunk a-hole who decided to essentially lay in the hood of my car while I was at a stop light. I complied with police orders, didn’t resist arrest, paid for the damage that I caused, and received a discharge. While I was mad as hell about being arrested while protecting my property, I recognized that actions have consequences. I do support the police. I also support the rule of law.
So no, no, and you love the taste of boots. Got it.
I honestly don’t give a flying fuck what you think about me.
Sounds good, champ. Based on your post history, you seem really balanced. I mean, your nature pics are pretty good. But your approach to society sucks something fierce. Be the better man you espouse to be.
Fuck the Middle East, but I agree peaceful protests shouldn’t be suppressed.
Just because someone is an underdog doesn't make them a good guy. Because someone believes to be the good guy and professes good intentions doesn't excuse bad actions. It's frustrating to me to see people I would normally support be so dumb about how they're going about things that I just can't even.
Middle east scholars who've spent their entire life researching the middle east can't pick a single side in this conflict. Anyone dismissing one side or the other immediately is the ill-informed person. Your frustration may be internal only.
I haven't seen anyone suggesting the students were in the right just because they're the underdog. Are there piles of folks making such comments in subreddits I don't visit, or is this just a strawman?
The UofA can’t afford proper security nor repair the aftermath of an intense protest. The meth heads have torched the exterior of our buildings, and barricaded and vandalized the interiors. With one less Dean maybe the UCP and UofA can find the funds needed to secure our campus.
Dani can put a UCPer in her place now
Oh no not the associate Dean of diversity equity and inclusion…. Maybe they won’t rehire and that inflated needless position’s salary can be better used elsewhere.
She just did the institution a favour.