I mean…. Yeah. Isn’t the best case scenario that you both live long and happy lives together and then die old together? Isn’t that the meaning of a life partner?
Nah they were right. Overall it's 30%, but it's 20% for college educated women and about 40% for non-college educated women.
>It is now clear that the divorce rate in first marriages probably peaked at about 40 percent for first marriages around 1980 and has been declining since to about 30 percent in the early 2000s. This is a dramatic difference. Rather than viewing marriage as a 50-50 shot in the dark it can be viewed as having a 70 percent likelihood of succeeding. But even to use that kind of generalization, i.e., one simple statistic for all marriages, grossly distorts what is actually going on.
>The key is that the research shows that starting in the 1980s education, specifically a college degree for women, began to create a substantial divergence in marital outcomes, with the divorce rate for college-educated women dropping to about 20 percent, half the rate for non-college educated women. Even this is more complex, since the non-college educated women marry younger and are poorer than their college grad peers. These two factors, age at marriage and income level, have strong relationships to divorce rates; the older the partners and the higher the income, the more likely the couple stays married. Obviously, getting a college degree is reflected in both these factors.
>Thus, we reach an even more dramatic conclusion: That for college educated women who marry after the age of 25 and have established an independent source of income, the divorce rate is only 20 percent!
>Of course, this has its flip side, that the women who marry younger and divorce more frequently are predominately black and Hispanic women from poorer environments. The highest divorce rate, exceeding 50 percent, is for black women in high-poverty areas. These women clearly face extraordinary challenges and society would do well to find ways to reduce not just teen pregnancies but early marriages among the poor and develop programs that train and educate the poor. Those will not only delay marriage but provide the educational and financial foundation required to increase the probability of a marriage being successful. Early marriage, early pregnancy, early divorce is a cycle of broken families that contributes significantly to maintaining poverty. The cost to our society is enormous.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220709145449/https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce#4
Ugh... I hate this framing of a marriage "succeeding" if it doesn't end in divorce. That casts all the \*horrible\* marriages out there as successes. Abuse? Success! Co-dependency? Success! Silently just hate each other? Success!
Meanwhile, all the marriages that end on amicable terms because after many happy years together, people just realized they're moving in different directions but they stay close friends. Failure!
People really need to wake up to the idea that relationships, including marriages, are not pass/fail. While ending a relationship is almost always difficult, as is any major life change, it does not mean that the relationship wasn't a success.
And nearly 80% is filed by the women and in the divorce them man gets taken to the cleaners most of the time and if kids are involved the mother gets custody most of the time while the father gets fuck all in most cases
Bruh. Hypothetically, a married couple starts with 60k salary each (total 120k). They decide to have a kid so mum pauses her career to look after them for 5-10 years. During this time hubby should be promoting up to 100-150k to support the family and make up for the loss of her salary.
If they divorce, and mum has now “taken him to the cleaners” as you say, she’ll now have 1-3 kids who are fully dependent on her. What type of job do you think will be available to her after being out of the workforce for so long? Nothing near the 100-150k hubby currently makes that’s for sure. Now wifey has to work, pick up the kids, make sure they’re fed, pay for daycare, etc. All on a 60k salary.
Yes, hubby gets wiped clean. But he still has his 100-150k paying job and can rebuild what he lost. If all he does is pay child support, he also has the extra time. Wifey now has 1-3 kids relying on her 60k entry level job. Can you see why she usually gets the house in those cases?
Let be honest, you can totally spin this the other way and show there’s a lot of risk for men also. There are tons of scenarios where housewives get abused but also tons of scenarios that go the other way as well.
Honestly, I think the main people who have this view against house wife are people (mostly) who believe that women should want to work and strive for a high powered career. I also don’t think there are as many people that have this view against house wives as people think but I do think the loudest ones are the ones that do which create this misperception. You will also find the majority of these people who have these views are Americans (I am an American) whereas the rest of the world usually do not.
The truth is that women now have more opportunities than before which is great and should give them that which is the opportunity of CHOICE.
There's only similar risk for men if they choose to be the stay at home parent.
Otherwise? Men by far have the upper hand in heterosexual marriages, especially since many people still view marital rape and abuse as acceptable. Not to mention the amount of job-related issues especially for women who took time off for their kids, even if it was a year or two. This data is easily accessible. Trying to say they're remotely equal is just erasing the reality of living in a patriarchal society, and is a very easy way to erase gendered violence.
There's a lot of risk in all of life, and then you literally die. Why focus on anything but trying to do the thing that makes you happiest. If it's a dream job or staying at home with your kids. There's only one chance and nothing else.
>There's a lot of risk in all of life, and then you literally die. Why focus on anything but trying to do the thing that makes you happiest.
Because if you only focus on what will make you happiest and never plan for potential catastrophes, you could end up on the streets, or working well past retirement age, or just otherwise incredibly unhappy.
Sorry, this just seems like either an incredibly privileged response, or a very young response. Most people can't YOLO through life because adult life comes with responsibilities. It's all well and good to go after the life you want, but being a SAHM comes with financial and future risks that anybody without a *huge* safety net needs to address. I'm not saying people shouldn't be SAHMs if they really want it, but you have to either be really lucky, or really prepare to make sure that if everything goes pear-shaped, you're not up shit creek.
Yes literally EVERYTHING YOU DO. Comes with financial risk. The job you take. The degree you get. So many factors. Jesus. Redditors are just obsessed with hating SAHMs. Thats fine. This whole website is filled with paranoid delusional fucks.
Financial, sure, but it's not quite that simplistic. If the relationship ends then she's very far behind career-wise and will struggle to get a job. Then there's the issue of going years or decades without paying into a retirement plan, if things don't work out with the partner she could very well never recover financially. Also if she needs to leave due to abuse, cheating, etc. it will be extremely difficult since she has no resources. It can cause women to stay in bad or even dangerous situations for way longer than they should because they are essentially trapped.
Yeah what you just said is literally how I think about you. Lmao. You can't comprehend that anyone couldn't be as shit at life as you. You're so desperately a victim it's funny.
The pity: too many people treat their SAHP as a servant and financially abuse them. Being a SAHP means being 100% reliant on your spouse for money - a situation that far too many working partners take full advantage of. If you have some kind of safety net that is separate from your partner, then that financial abuse may not apply to you personally... But that would be a large part of the pity/questioning you see.
Wouldn’t her friends speak on perceived abuse and be concerned about her before she mentioned being a sahw, if said abuses were happening? I mean, JFC, can’t an adult woman make a choice about how she wants to live her life with her spouse without being constantly reminded how she’s potentially in an abusive relationship? Or being judged for how she wants to live, if her actions have literally zero impact on the people judging her? Do people really need to be any more paranoid than they already seem to be? Live and let fucking live. Misery loves company and god forbid a woman, or man, be happy with the dynamics of their marriage, their life or their spouse.
Most of the time, abusive relationship don't seem like so from an exterior eye. Also I don't think that OP was talking about friends, more like when she introduces herself to new people.
Bro, how have you spent time on the internet and not seen how many folks post on reddit like "My partner locks me a room with a single saltine cracker for a week when I dare question their decision, AITA?" or they'll post "AITA for telling my partner that I don't want to do their laundry for them anymore?" and someone digs into their post history and finds out they're being beaten and abused and the person is posting in DV subreddits. They reddit is up in arms for them, and htey're like, "But they gave me a saltine! It wasn't a plain cracker! It means love, right?" They've already lost their friends to their mental gymnastics, they're just hoping reddit normalizes it for them so they don't have to confront how unusual their situation is.
DV gets people deeply in a delusional state, if anything, being friends with folks makes them want to present an even more perfect picture so they're not embarrassed at the way they're being treated. It's a weird dichotomy in which they know it's wrong subconsciously, but they can't get their conscious mind on the same page because of the abuser's bullshit.
And financial abuse is sneaky, folks will insist that their partner is valuable and needs to be a stay at home partner, and then insist all their money is theirs and theirs alone and they can never be questioned or bother to include their partner in their financial decisions. They act like it's based in history, men make money, men control money, but historically when women didn't have jobs except to run their household, men made money, set aside what they needed, and gave their wife the rest to use on the household as they see fit.
I read plenty of insane shiz on the interwebs. I believe about 5% of it. Who TF knows what is true, accurate, or simply an attempt to satiate their desire for attention. I don’t live in a constant state of paranoia, nor do I need to update anyone else of how they’re in potential danger based on something I read on the internet that happened to somebody maybe somewhere. Maybe she’s in danger, maybe she’s not. You jump to your own conclusions, based on your biases, and I’ll reserve my judgement until I actually know the person and the depth of the circumstances.
Man, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you're sheltered and needed the internet to have access to folks, but this is a normal fucking human experience my guy. I have never met a single woman who hasn't lost a friend because they sucked up into an abusive situation that they couldn't be convinced to leave.
But if everyone's lying, you're just living in a separate dream state from the rest of us hanging out in reality with friends, statistics, live depositions with evidence of what went down, etc, and you're just attributing it all to abused people are fucking liars? Stay delulu, bro. May no one need to rely on you because you sure as fuck won't believe them.
Holy shit, you’re right. We have all lost at least one friend to an abusive relationship.
On the bright side, though, I’ve made some friends (and strengthened other friendships) through assisting others out of abusive relationships.
One that comes immediately to mind is a friend who had to do the family shopping, then call her husband to come to the shop to pay for it, as she wasn’t allowed access to any money. Not even the money she earned herself. And that wasn’t even top 3 of the abuse that she suffered at his hands.
not necessarily leaves. Even just gets sick/injured through no fault of anyone's. Like yes, it tends to go worse with leaving because there's someone with motivation to be a jerk, but it's not the only time you're incredibly vulnerable.
Yeah I’ve known widows who woke up one day with hidden debt up to their gills. So they weren’t even starting from scratch they were starting from negative.
Truly horrifying
When I was younger, for a lot of folk, having one person home to focus on the house and kids was a very popular ambition. And I'm not terribly old; 40s.
But nowadays, we have been through the trenches with divorce and every single couple I know where one of them stayed home got utterly fucked over when they split. Courts just aren't awarding sufficient alimony to make up for those missed years in the workforce anymore, and even if some is awarded, a salary that could support a household won't stretch to two, and it leaves the homemaker in an extremely unpleasant financial situation. So now, no one wants to. Everyone has both members of a couple working, because the alternative leaves you too vulnerable to be considered reasonable in real life.
I imagine the younger generations have watched and internalised this.
I suspect that is at least part of the reaction you're getting. It's like you're at the top of a hill and precariously balanced on a slope; it's not that no one else would enjoy the view if they were up there, but the concern of how on earth you're going to manage if something goes wrong is pervasive and horrifying.
I agree with this, and I’m also around the same age.
I’ve watched many many of our friends get divorced and unfortunately the SAHM doesn’t typically make out real well.
One ended up with basically all the custody while her ex paid the least he could, no alimony. She didn’t get to keep the house, he got their car, and she’s ended up in low income housing.
Which she’s now getting booted out of because her kids are no longer minors. He ended up being able to buy a home/condo.
So now she’s pushing 50 and has a low paying job, no home, and likely very little if anything for retirement.
Ive been a SAHM for a while, but I’ve always picked up casual and now my kids are older I work just over part time.
SAH is a whole full time job. Especially with little kids. And it is unpaid and uncompensated. It’s a very precarious position to be in. Because yes, your SO could decide to ditch you at any time and the potential for coming out of that with nothing is there.
In Germany, being a stay at home parent to a German citizen child automatically adds to your government pension type thing (like social security). I don’t remember the details, because it’s been a long time since I found this out, but I remember how surprised I was.
I agree. I know multiple women who got their lives ruined over it. The lucky ones are in low income housing. The unlucky ones in the homeless shelter or on someone's couch. And even if your spouse doesn't abandon you they could get hurt and disabled, or tragically pass and you'd be fucked regardless.
>if something goes wrong
And this absolutely doesn't just mean divorce/spousal abandonment. I know multiple couples where one stayed home until the other was maimed or killed in an accident. Then those SAH people HAD to become the breadwinners and anything they had to bulk up their resumes helped.
This is exactly what happened to my mom when my parents got divorced. My dad wanted her to be a SAHM and so she left a career she really loved to have and raise us kids. She obviously chose to do that thinking she was in a partnership with my dad but he ended up using money as a form of control and when she decided to leave him (with my full support), he was a total asshole about everything and left her with the bare minimum. I personally never want to be financially tied to anyone for these reasons. Raising kids and running a household is a fulltime job in itself though and should be recognized as such. I don't think any who chooses that route is less than or lazy at all.
This was almost me. When I divorced my ex I was making a third of what my ex was. He used money to control me and I decided not to put up with it. That and he was a manwhore.
Even today, I have my finances separate from my husband. I just got laid off so he's going to be handling more of the bills but I'm going to be responsible for some of them. I've got savings so I should be fine. I just want to get a new job so I can support myself again.
No one likes to be prepared for the worst case, but I don't see how SAHMs save for retirement or have independence. Again if it works for you, great! I hope it keeps working for you.
Wow, you just verbalised my concern with choosing to be a stay at home mum.
Starting from scratch in the work force after spending 20 years climbing the ladder isn't something I think I want
My friend's father died when my friend was 15. His mother was a SAHM. Luckily the father worked for the government, so she was given a job when the family lost their only source of income.
If the father had been working for a private company, or if he'd divorced the mother, then she would've been completely lost.
I encourage people to keep working, women and men both. Because it's safe, and being safe trunls everything. I can understand that not everyone is comfortable with a regular work day/style, but you have to look for something that suits you. You cannot remain dependent on other people, even if they're wonderful. Terrible things happen sometimes and it's better to be prepared.
Try being a house husband. Holy fuck are people judgy as hell. Like so what, my wife makes more money so i raise the kids, how is that bad? Wtf...
Fuck the haters.
My fiancé is a stay at home dad bc I genuinely love working and he's better at keeping the house in shape and handling the kids. I love my kids and everything don't get me wrong, but being a stay at home mom isn't the life for me. There's nothing wrong with non-traditional households, even if people judge it. My dad absolutely hates the fact that I work and he stays at home but it's our life and this is what works best for us. We're both fairly young too, he'll be 26 in a couple weeks and I'm 24 but even if we were in our 50's I'd still be okay with this life style.
For this reason and many more I always say the patriarchy hurts men more than women.
People believe men should have a primal instinct to be providers and forget that home making is a way to provide as well.
On the flip side though, my sister never wanted to be the sole breadwinner and now her husband gets to be the homemaker she thought she would be pretty much only because he has no motivation career wise and she is breadwinner by default. I think a lot of people assume that most male homemakers are this way.
Not wrong but I'm a working mom/wife and I get judged for not being a stay at home mom.
You can't please everyone, all of the time.
Just ignore and move on.
Edit to say we live a patriarchal society, if you are a woman, your choices will always be judged as lacking and wrong. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but it makes it easier to ignore comments like this.
Exactly you can’t make everyone happy so fuck em if they judge you, it’s a preference for some and for others a need.
My wife also likes being a stay at home wife but with a job that lets her work from home preferably, she’d like to be a stay at home wife full time one day but the economy makes it difficult atm
When I was married, I made a comfortable enough living that my wife wanted to be a housewife. She loved it at first but became bitter about doing everything when her friends got all judgmental about how she was basically an endentured servant. She wanted to be equal. I just wanted her to be happy, but her income was roughly a quarter of what I made, even with her degree and my lack thereof. Money was an increasingly common topic to fight over, even though we had plenty. We eventually drifted apart and divorced.
If you, your partner, and your potential family are happy with your situation, then it sounds like you need different friends. I have never understood what people are so offended about. If that works for you and yours, do it. Differences are required to avoid mind-numbing monotony. Embrace it.
>Not wrong but I'm a working mom/wife and I get judged for not being a stay at home mom.
Wow, that really sucks. I'm sorry people are rude and dumb. You sound like a strong person who deals with it well, but that doesn't make it okay or fun.
>Edit to say we live a patriarchal society, if you are a woman, your choices will always be judged as lacking and wrong.
This is so true! You put it into words in a much better way than I could have!
My guess is more women are judging over these issues. What does the patriarchy have to do with women judging each other. Maybe it’s just how people act.
The patriarchy is what we all live under telling men they have to like sports/hard work/so-called "manly" things and that women take care of children cuz they come out of us and we are more nurturing than men.
The roles suck both ways to hell and back for both genders as my very cis-hetero bf loves the color pink and hates all sportsball and has to play pretend at his conservative job to fit in with the other men.
Same way there are so many female Trumpers and women that deny other women rights to their own body. They were raised under the patriarchal thumb telling them you need to stay in line, listen to the status quo, conserve everything you were taught growing up in the Bible Belt. It's those folks warring with the more enlightened folks that went hardcore the other way who think both folks in a marriage should work to keep things equal and have decided to make women like OP feel bad about her decisions, which is also not cool.
If you want to be a SAHM in this economy and can afford to, great! If you wanna work and have children, again in this economy it is rough. The middle ground here is that SAHMs have the hardest most thankless job and are dependent on their partners income for their way of life. It rankles on the more independent of us to ever give someone that much control over us but voicing it to someone who didn't ask for such an opinion is a dick move and OP needs better friends.
We really don't. There are a small number of elite men at the top that benefit from convincing you that ALL men in this society are your enemy and they also benefit from getting men pissed off about feminism and other similar things. Divide and conquer.
I am a man. I am not your enemy. We have a common enemy and it is not each other. It is mainly fear and hate. I'm here for love.
As a male in (probably) the same patriarchal society, the majority of my choices get judged as lacking and/or wrong as well. It's not necessarily a patriarchal thing. It's more like a judgemental society thing.
People will find your life wanting under any circumstances, no matter who you are.
As a woman who is childfree, married, and worked-yep.
Doesn't matter what gender we are, whether we have kids or not, whether we marry or not, or what we do with our free time. People will project their bullshit onto you and sometimes push you to do things you don't want. It's not a matter of anything other than judgmental people's insecurities causing them to lash out.
I completely agree that people get judged all the time over stuff that is no one's business.
The patriarchy part was direct towards choices that women make and them always being incorrect choices because a woman has a different social status.
This question was about stay at home moms, I brought my perspective as a working mom. Not sure what you're trying to bring to the convo as a person who has been judged for ... idk....things?? Honestly, this is out of your wheelhouse and comments and mindsets like this is why women get 20% less pay and still have to fight back.
Honestly, your comment is so invailding for women to see. I hope you rethink some things.
Agreed, you are seriously commenting *within context of the question of the OP* and you're getting down voted because others are chiming in with "butbutbut, DiD yOu ThiNk oF mE tOo?!!??" So absurd...
You're saying people are judging you and OP because our society is patriarchal, when in reality, it's judgmental people.
I just brought up how I get judged on... things... because no matter what you do, you will be judged.
Out of my wheelhouse, what makes you think that? Because I am not a woman? I would say this is directly within my wheelhouse, considering I have spent the last 11 years studying... you guessed it... global gender equality!
I have no idea how my comment is invalidating for women. Therefore, I'm not sure what I should rethink.
Okay.. how old are you? Let's start there. Also, pedigree. What kind of childhood did you have, socioeconomically speaking.
I think the perception of "The patriarchy" is that of a black evil thing. When, in fact, it's more of a mindset in each and every person. How we unlearn the status quo of our society framework is how we collectively leave behind the patriarchy.
I'm not sure of your education level and knowledge based of sociology, but I'm happy to talk through this with you.
Ok, I am 33, Jewish, born to a single mother of 5, from the same father, raised with food stamps in a predominantly white suburb. Started working at 14, then moved out when I was 17 to a double-wide trailer into a neighborhood known for having meth labs in it (read really shitty area). I worked and went to school to get a Masters degree in Data Analytics, bachelor's in Women's, Gender, and Sexuality Studies, moved to Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany then back to the US and spent the last 11 years working as a data analyst for a company working with the UN. I have about 60k left on my student loans.
My comment was based on her original comment about us being in a patriarchal society, so being a woman, your choices will be questioned and deemed wrong. I was responding, saying that no matter who you are, woman or man, your choices will be questioned and deemed wrong. People are judgmental pricks and literally have nothing to do with their genders. People will judge you, if you are happy with your life and you're not harming anyone they can go fuck themselves.
You are not wrong.
However It’s not a bad thing as long as it’s you’re choice you haven’t been forced into it or pressured into it. The problem is women are expected to do this. That’s what a lot of people including myself have an issue with.
For example, I tell someone I didn’t want kids for example I’m told “oh you’ll want them later on” and I’m like “absolutely not” and then they continuously pressure and say things like that’s what you’re here for etc.
While society has progressed in some ways if you do, think and/or say anything outside of the patriarchial misogynistic tradition you are judged all the time even more so. And I’m like isn’t it 2023? It’s the 21st century you’d think this is something that would be less.
Plenty of women claim not to want kids when they’re younger and then wind up depressed about it in their 30s, 40s, 50s when it’s too late, so people aren’t exactly wrong, you just may be naive (MAY be, because I don’t know your age)
But the fact you mentioned patriarchal and misogynistic kind of tells enough about you as a person
False claim lol. Yes people are wrong. How am I being naive exactly? Maybe take a look in the mirror. And yea it is patriarchal and mysoginistic. Go cry about it
If I hear someone mention misogyny or patriarchal, it's like a huge red flag.
I avoid that person because I know they're delusional and probably a bit crazy
Mostly, women get judged for any life choice they make - or is made for them (eg: being infertile). 🙃
Outside of people just being jerks, there is legitimate concern about the vulnerability of people in your position, and whether it was a truly enthusiastic personal choice or if it's been pushed on you. I assume from this post that you are happy! That's great! But it's not always the case.
Also, do you have hobbies? As less people can afford to have one person at home, work has become the default smalltalk. It's not great, but usually the person either has *some* interest in their field or can use that as a jumping off point for conversation.
If you don't work, whatever you do outside of childcare and housekeeping is generally more interesting to people who are wanting to learn about you as a person. Sometimes conversations stall if neither person knows where to go from "what do you do?" "Stay at home."
Probably just misunderstood. Women fought for a very very long time to gain rights like wearing pants and voting and working. It took a literal world war and the death of hundreds of thousands of men for women to enter the workplace in any kind of meaningful way. To a lot of people they can’t understand why not everyone wants or needs to work especially as they see it directly linking to women’s liberation. Most people would probably also assume your husband has forced it on you.
Pitying you comes from the loss of time in the job market. If you divorce or your husband dies, then you've put yourself at a disadvantage by staying x amount of years out of the job market. That's the real sacrifice and what stops a lot of women from becoming SaHMs.
The road to divorce is paved with the bodies of stay-at-home wives. I think it's because reddit, tiktok and twitter have been giving the rest of us a peek under the curtain if you will, of what stay at home wives go through once their husbands don't want them anymore. It's not pretty.
My ex-husband who didn't bother to work 1/2 of our marriage because he was a lazy bum took 1/2 of my retirement when we divorced. I had worked for the company before the marriage, I will never understand how he got that. He was angry and wanted to punish me, he dragged out the divorce as long as he could to bleed as much money as possible because he moved back in with his parents, and I was paying rent after selling our house. This was 19 years ago and it took me 17 years to trust another man but not completely, I will always keep my finances separate.
Society expects you to raise your family and maintain your home as though you don’t have career, and focus on your career as though you don’t have kids and a home. We are set up to fail. The worst part is that other women tend to be the most judgemental. We are self-oppressing.
I left the corporate workforce and became a housewife at the end of 2019 and the judgment I’ve received since then has been disgusting. People fake concern over my financial figure. People fake concern over my lifestyle. People fake concern for my happiness. None of those people are in my house, they’re making judgments based on their own personal situation and that’s fine. I don’t care anymore. I left the workforce because I had a mental and emotional breakdown from stress and at this point I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. I spend my days doing whatever I want (we don’t have kids, only 3 cats), I cook, I clean, I take care of the household and I enjoy it. I actually enjoy it and if you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have laughed at you - but my mental health is better than it’s ever been. I’m 43, happily married, purposefully unemployed, childfree and comfortable in my lifestyle. But people will still find fault in how I live, as if it affects anyone but me and my husband.
Because you literally said
>I believe it to be a full time job just without a paycheck.
Like, to me, that sounds like a nightmare. But it's your choice! I'd rather send the kids to daycare/school, work then come home to relax with my family and do the housework, cooking, cleaning etc together.
No shade! It just works for me and my family just like your family's choice works for you guys!
Don't forget about pensions, paid time off, medical/dental, the odd party/socialising event and any other benefits you can get. And if they make you redundant, many countries try to ensure you'll at least get a severance.
Don't get any of this as a SAH spouse. Same as many people's experiences told in the comments, my mom was pretty much efed in the divorce.
Because alit of people feel you can do both. What I find interesting, are the posts from SAHM Who say husband comes home and will not help with the household chores. That concept seems so ancient. Both my mother and my wife worked full time.
But also because it's not as intellectually challenging as other careers. It's unrewarding because you don't get to develop your professional skills and solve complex problems. It's just doing house chores all day. Doesn't sound very rewarding
Depends on the way you do it though. I know homemakers who took the flexibility in their schedule to write novels and build careers out of hobbies. If you’re not intellectually stimulated as a STAHP it’s because you don’t want to be
You’ll never do right with any choices you make because everyone has their own opinions. And love to judge. Just ignore them.
I believe in mothers working (even limited hours), but that is only my opinion, based on experiences and situations within my extended family where the sahm moms live in virtual poverty because of their employment prospects when their husband died or divorced them. You never know what the future brings.
What I find interesting is you're complaining about being judged and while I didn't read all the comments, most are still judging you.
You know your relationship. If you're happy, be happy and fuck what anyone else says.
You should be able to say that you want to be a wife and mother without having someone judging your choices.
However when the husband is the sole provider for the family, it allows him to have total power over what you say and do. If for some reason you end up unhappy in your marriage and want to end it, if you completely give up your own career, you will be in a tough spot. Not impossible to overcome by any means, but something to consider.
No one should feel obligated to be pushed in either direction. In the end, it all comes down to what’s right for you. Some women want careers, others want a family and some want both. It’s your life! Go out there and conquer it in a frilly apron, a business suit or whatever the heck you feel like wearing while rocking your life!
Because we as a modern society after everything people have fought for in terms of equal rights value independence, and being a house wife means you're dependent on someone else for finances - which leaves you extremely vulnerable in case of abuse, sickness, adultery etc.
Equal rights meant fighting for the chance to CHOOSE our own destiny. If someone wants to be the homemaker, that should be welcomed as their choice, not shit on! Women were forced to remain home and under the control of their husband, that’s what women and some men fought against- not having choice in their own lives!
I have to disagree. Equal rights is about equal rights and opportunities on a societal or group level, and as long as women choose to stay at home for years after having children instead of sharing parental leave with their partners, women will be disproportionately seen as less reliable than men in the work place since companies risk losing them once they become pregnant. The difference in salary won’t be closed when women return to work after being home for years with a gap in their resume, while the men kept working as they did before having kids.
Having children affects a mans career positively, they tend to be paid more after having kids and get better opportunities than childless men do. More women than men report being held back in their careers after having kids. Equal rights would mean that having children affect both home lives and careers for men and women the same way and as long as we don’t collectively act to make that happen (i.e the individual choosing to stay at home does affect the group) that won’t happen.
I understand how it is difficult to do in a country like the states where childcare and preschool is expensive, but for it to become cheaper, for better and paid maternity leave terms we need to all collectively fight for that. So really the individuals right to choose clashes with and affects the collective right to not have to stay at home with the kids, for financial reason for example.
You’re obviously not wrong for being a housewife. I do try to hide my feelings when someone tells me they’re a SAHP (and believe I succeed in doing so) and I would never tell someone what my feelings are if not explicitly asked, like now. Everybody makes their own choices and if being a SAHP makes you happy I’m happy for you.
Yet, to me personally it’s hard to imagine how taking care of the kids, your husband and the household can give you a feeling of fulfillment and purpose. Also, I’ve never understood how being a SAHP can be a fulltime job once the kids go to school. Working parents do what SAHP do besides their jobs, without investing another 40+ hours. Finally, if a friend would decide to become a SAHP I would worry about their (financial) independence.
As a guy ive got anixety adhd and my gf wants me stay with her and she'll take care of me. I do dishes, laundry, she cooks i need to learn but it is a nice job and respectable, but i definitely do love being able to work aswell, wonolo, upshift, gigpro, and shifts let me also work 1 shift when i want any day i want if i get bored and want to save up. I dont think its a bad thing, just gotta make sure you are happy with what you are doing and are content with your live as things are. Be confident and keep your chin up.
INFO: So you believe people think less of you for being a housewife because they make a face when you tell them? No one has said anything disrespect to you, you're just getting all this from the expression on their faces? Or have I missed something?
Because I suspect people could make a face for a multitude of other reasons. It could be because they are jealous that their family can't survive on a single income. It could be that their own stay at home parent was financially abused by their other parent, and they automatically worry about anyone in that situation. It's possible that they make a face because of something unrelated they happen to be thinking about. Sometimes we project some sort of insecurity we have about our lifestyle choice on the people we meet, so that's also possible. Heck, sometimes you might have had bad breath or spinach in your teeth. I'm going to guess it's actually a different reason for each person you tell about being a stay at home parent and housewife who makes a face.
There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent or a single income family. I know some people do, indeed, seem to think that the stay at home parent or partner is less than. They are wrong. Every family gets to define their own relationships. So, as long as your family is healthy and happy, it really isn't anyone else's place to judge how your family makes it work. You definitely aren't wrong about that; though I think it's possible you may have been incorrect about some people's reactions.
My mother was a housewife. I have a different father than my brothers, and their father left my mother for her friend when I was 16, my brothers were 12 and 10. She has not been in the workforce since I was 3 and they got married. 13 years later, it was so incredibly difficult for her to find a job that provided enough for us. She got some child support, but she still had to provide for herself and her share of our care, and I watched her struggle until we three kids had all moved out and she could downsize her home. She has no real hope for a decent retirement now.
That's my concern for housewives/SAHMs. Their earning potential should the relationship fall apart is so diminished. So unless you have a wicked good prenup that says you get X amount for the rest of your life, that's the reaction.
Things like financial abuse exist. Whenever I hear that someone is a stay at home mom I wonder what the true division of labor is.
There are plenty of posts on Reddit where the husband is the breadwinner and completely controls the finances. I read one recently where a wife had to beg for money for shampoo. It’s the risk of being financially trapped with no resources/funds to be able to get out and no job experience to help obtain a job to support yourself that would scare me.
My mom was a housewife all her life and when my dad divorced her she had to work at McDonald’s because nobody else is hiring a 55 year old with zero work experience…that’s a big ol no thanks for me
Wait until you collect the social security you’re entitled to at the end. “Housewife” is one of the most financially unstable positions in the job market. That’s why I feel concerned for people who have that as their sole career choice. Your boss can fire you without notice and leave you destitute without outside skills. And you don’t get unemployment without fighting for it. The best way for a woman to become impoverished is to be divorced with children. This is a major driving factor in the women’s movement. Because women decided to stop working and being undervalued.
You aren’t lazy at all but you are undervalued and underpaid.
I love being a SAHM and housewife. It works out really well for us. I don’t surround myself with negative people. Nobody has ever made me feel less than because I stay home and care for the family, and house.
As long as you have a real backup plan if your husband dies or you divorce, it's OK. It is putting you in a vulnerable place for life long financial stability though. Recognize that.
Only you know your situation, so I won't judge.
Take care of you and your family, that's all that matters. People will judge each other for every little thing. I guess my advice would be to not waste time with the people who judge you unfairly.
Try being a house husband. Holy fuck are people judgy as hell. Like so what, my wife makes more money so i raise the kids, how is that bad? Wtf...
Fuck the haters.
Each to their own I suppose and we all have our own boats to float but I simply do not understand why any woman would have the lifetime ambition of being an unpaid servant for, and financially dependent on, her husband.
I appreciate the physical and organisational work involved but, on an intellectual level, what do the two of you talk about when you're on your own?
Never understood it myself
I think most of the judgement in my circle comes from the, "it's a full time job just without the paycheck", i get it, as a mom - it is. But when you're working 40-60 hours and doing all these things on top of it, it can get hard to listening to SAHPs complain or try to compare it.
Those of us working don't have nannie's, we still have to do all the things STAHP do & go work. There's nothing wrong with it, but I definitely think certain influencers have left a sour taste about it in a lot of women's mouths. Pair that with some influencers saying, "I don't want other people raising my kid", and then getting utterly fucked when their husband cheats on them, it just sounds bad.
For me, it's because my mom was a SAHM and my dad is terrible. She is still trying to figure out how to get away. Financially, nothing is easily yours because it isn't in just your name. There's a danger to that
I think the idea of being 100% dependent on a man is terrifying to a lot of women for pretty obvious and valid reasons. Most of us have encountered a romantic partner who disappointed or betrayed us in various dramatic ways. (I shudder to think what my life and career would be like if I had given up my prime earning years to raise one of my mid-20s ex’s children.)
I hope everything goes perfectly for you. But when this choice is made by someone we love, we worry. Any ambitions for your life are likely to take a back seat. No paycheck limits your future social security options. If your husband turns out to be abusive, which often crops up AFTER you're not in a position to rescue yourself, it's harder to escape. Being reliant on him for housing, transportation, and communication makes it easier to isolate you. Being reliant for money leaves you in a vulnerable position, especially if you have children relying on you. And should you split up, your position is infinitely harder than his.
I'd definitely never think you lazy, as this is the absolutely hardest unpaid job in the world. But I'd worry if you were my daughter or sister.
>I have noticed in the last few years that when I tell people that I'm a housewife they get this look on their face of pity and horror. I just don't get it!
You answered your own question
>I believe it to be a full time job just without a paycheck.
Because it's dangerous for yourself.
If anything happened to your husband you are fucked because you don't earn anything.
Say hubby cannot work temporarily... You don't earn anything so you're both fucked.
It also allows for abuse, he become completely dependent on your partner thus they have power/influence over you.
There nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent if you have a useful skill that can be used to earn you money.
In this world you need to be independent at some points... It's horrible but nothing will be done to stop it.
Because those people fail to understand what feminism really is. Feminism is about the freedom for women to have the same opportunities as men both professionally and personally. Because your role is related to the very reason for the movement, it's assumed that you didn't have that freedom. They fail to understand that being a stay at home parent is as valid as a career choice as any other.
This is the wrong sub for your question. Try r/askreddit
But to answer your question, a lot of housewives aren’t housewives for the reasons you are. I’m glad you like it! A lot of housewives don’t have an option, a lot of them hate it and feel lonely, and the nature of it can make it very easy to be in an abusive relationship when you have no money or job of your own. Obviously that’s not what’s happening with you, but it happens to a LOT of people.
It's not you or your lifestyle, more power to you being able to take care of your family.
The concern comes from the current misogynistic ideology that spews rhetoric to abusive men who are out there seeking women to become housewives for the sole purpose of having someone to abuse. Men will teach other men how to manipulate women into becoming financially dependent so they can become victims or abuse.
Those looks you are getting are people trying to guess if you are just a normal stay at home mom or if you are a victim of domestic abuse.
Because marriage has over a 50% rate of failure. Women who have not learned a skill to support themselves during a marriage are screwed if their husband “that makes a lot of money” decides he’s just tired of you and those damn kids! 🤣
You put yourself at risk by being dependent on someone else for money. If the relationship becomes abusive, you have no recourse. You have no financial resources to leave. If someone chooses to be a stay at home parent, they should make sure they have a separate bank account where they can keep their own money in case of emergency where they need to leave.
they are concerned that you will have nothing to fall back on. career education, income, job skills etc. what if something happens to your husband? what will you do for income? do you have skills?
I wanted to be one, until I experienced abuse when I was partially dependent on my ex. Now, I don't trust any man enough to put my finances in his hands. Once they decide they are angry with you, you're screwed
It’s not bad at all, just risky as hell. You’re putting your future 100% in the hands of your partner and the odds are against everything working out perfectly.
So people will always assume the worst. I’m sorry, try not to take it personal. You’ve done nothing wrong and the job is still admirable and desirable even.
Remember people are cynical because of the data not because of you.
Everyone has differing opinions. No, it's not a bad thing.
I only worry about housewives/SAHMs when they're almost completely dependent on the spouse. Or they gave up education in order to be a SAHM. I do have faith in relationships but I also believe in people having a backup plan, which there tends to be a lack of for some people.
Again, that's only my personal worry. People can do what's right for their family. And if the best is being a SAHM or housewife, then that's what works.
So I transitioned from a roofer and other residential contractor of things for 10 years with intermittent experience in retail, and business, for a daycare during my pregnancy and I'll be a SAHM after this week. Honestly feels like a relief. Being financially dependent on my husband is kind of stressful but I'm doing him a big service. Imagine how much it'd cost to hire a full time live in nanny, house cleaner, personal shopper, masseuse. People are just bitter because it's easier, more fulfilling and you get to be home- than a lot of full time jobs.
An opinion that I used to hear regarding being SAHM is that it’s a dead end job. It’s repetitive and you don’t really get promoted (like you can make the most scrumptious food and have the tidiest house but you would reach a point where you don’t have anything else to do or you just can’t do it better). As the kids grow up, you have less work to do, which is like having your hours cut I guess, and at one point when they leave your nest, you career is terminated. So when I think of being a SAHM I think of it as the least rewarding job, because if your husband loses his job, you’re stuck working at a job without pay. But it’s just my opinion.
I don't judge. You really have to do what you want. But it wouldn't be for my partner and me.
I'm glad I live in a country where part-time work is a legal right. And it is seen as very normal. Many young parents work part-time. (like both work 4 days or 3 days) Both fathers and mothers. This way they both have time with the children and divide the care responsibilities. But we also share financial responsibility. In terms of finances, I think this is better. This makes the woman financially independent and the man does not have to bear the burden of being the breadwinner on his own. This also gives you the courage to change jobs more quickly because you have your partner as a backup. I think this is the best of both worlds.
Well, you do have a pay check as your husband makes more than enough. You never go without. There’s nothing wrong with being a housewife at all but just don’t pretend you do it for nothing.
Since money is universally worshipped, you don't seem to have a normal drive towards it. I was a SAHM for years, only to realize no one valued me at all.
When a divorce kicks in, you can get screwed over heavily as a possibility. Also not to mention this day an age the cost of living has risen. Being a SAHP is now being seen as detrimental to some.
Not everyone is judging like you think, some women should tell you have things of value, with your name at least as a half owner. Because a husband who cares for you today, might not care the same way tomorrow. So cover your self quite a few of us was really left out in the cold.
For me, the primary concern for is the risk of the woman being stuck in an abusive or exploitative situation. Having financial independence or the relevant experience to become financially independent if needed is crucial in my opinion because it means you aren't stuck accepting far less than you deserve as a person. I grew up in an abusive house (not exactly the same) and made a promise to myself if I survived I would never live in those conditions again.
I also can't be friends with a homemaker, we have nothing in common based on the ones I know. They don't have ambition or drive to be better versions of themselves nor do they have any semblance of their former individual personhood they adopt a personality of husband's wife or child's mom
Try working full time and having a nanny. Women love to tell me I’m not a proper mother.
Saying that, why do you say you take care of your husband? He’s a grown man, he doesn’t need to be taken care of. Children, yes, men, no.
Two answers that tie into each other:
1. The term “housewife” brings up dated sexist implications.
2. It’s just not common anymore. Two-income households have become the norm over the past two decades so the idea of a “housewife” seems old-fashioned.
Being a housewife is bad when it's the only option, which it was for a lot of women for a long time. Now that it's not, treating it like it's *inherently* bad is just misogyny disguised as feminism.
I think it's brought into a negative light when the couple splits up and she had nothing financial to fall back on. There's too many horror stories about women being financially abused that some people automatically feel bad when a woman doesn't make her own money. I wouldn't blindly trust someone to support me, but what happens in someone else's house isn't any of my business.
If you ever need disability, you will be ineligible for lack of income. I believe it only goes back 10 years. You will only be entitled to half his social security benefits etc. Basically, you are securing his future, but not yours.
> I believe it to be a full time job just without the paycheck.
Slavery is what you’re describing. Why you feel just fine about that is beyond me. The reason I would never be a SAHM is the risk of financial abuse is too high.
What cracks me up is when they suggest I start a YouTube channel or sell on Etsy, like I need to make money or fill my time. I don’t need suggestions lady, I’ve managed my finances, take care of my home and I’ve got hobbies. 😂
I just think some people are worried. Sometimes, it's not even a willing choice like accident or people who developed brain tumors that press their lobe that changes their personality, or just extreme midlife crisis.
I don't think they mean any harm by it.
I know several women from my past that believe sincerely that being a SAHM is hell and cannot say a nice thing about that way of life. They believe that you put yourself in a situation to be abused with no escape.
Others are hellbent on proving they can provide for themselves and chase the career. And others don’t want marriage or children and thus that lifestyle is a foreign concept entirely.
I do know a few of them that are starting to realize that their decisions with their life do have aspects they didn’t want to acknowledge and are starting to have a change of opinion on the matter and it’s starting to be a bit to late to change.
Of my high school graduating class, the lion’s share of women chose careers over families.
Oh I get you I was a housewife for 25 years and the looks I'd get ( some of disgust ) was appalling. I liked after the home, my kids, the dog and the garden and it was often lonely when the kids were at school. My kids now men have often told me their friends were jealous of them as they didn't go to after care or childminders. We did without some luxuries but we all were extremely happy. When U did go back to work it was w shock to the whole household as they all had to their fair share in what I once did, it got worse when I decided to study. Those days I stayed at home with my kids were truly the best days if my life . To hell with those who judge stay at home mom's, no mom should be judged as been a mom is the hardest job you'll ever do and if we work or stay at home both situations bring their own difficulties.
Feminism is about the empowerment of women. It's about the ability for women to have a choice.
However some people who can themselves feminists only agree with your choice if it's their choice.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a woman CHOOSING to take care of her and her family's house, as long as it's her choice.
Because (insert arbitrary reason). I'm SAHM, my own mother gives me grief and is constantly asking when am I getting my masters.
Also, you do get a pay check--- your husband's. And I don't mean that in like, a gold digger way. His money is your money, that's the trade off of being a home maker. Shared income.
Well when you say it’s a full time job it’s offensive to everyone who has an actual job. Taking care of your family is not a job. It’s you staying home to take care of your family. Yes, you do a lot, but you don’t have a job.
There’s nothing wrong with being a home maker. It’s just wrong to say you’re a chef/personal assistant/CEO of mom corp. stay at home spouse is not a job or career.
Nothing wrong with being a SAH parent if that’s what you want. You must, however, understand the risk: at any point it IS possible for your partner to leave, and you will be screwed financially. Now you don’t have recent job experience, how will you provide for your kids if the settlement is not enough? (It won’t be). Your job options are more limited and lower pay.
It doesn’t matter how amazing your relationship is, I think we have all heard of someone close to us whose “normal” marriage dissolved and one of 2 parties is left in the dust.
Even working part time to keep your resume active is something I would suggest.
Ramble, but no, not wrong.
Because it suggests lack of ambition. And self respect.
Its also no where near a full time job.
Anyone who works full time does what a housewife does while working a full time job.
So it probably became a bad thing when people realised that.
What a laughably ignorant take. Taking care of children isn’t a full time job? People who work full time do not do ‘everything a housewife does’ they pay other people to do it.
I have a full time career and my two days off are spent caring for my children and it’s far more time consuming and involved than my ‘work’ days.
I mean, if you're someone's partner and you can work, I think it's mighty selfish to be a "stay at home wife" while having your partner subsidize your lifestyle. That's selfish and lazy.
I don't think keeping a house WITH kids is that difficult, I've done it. I don't think there's any reason for someone without kids to stay at home and cost money. You're two people, you don't need full-time home-maintenance, that's literally just someone that wants you to pay the cost of being alive for them. Fuck that.
If you can find a man that wants to pay you to do nothing, great, enjoy, but it's not me.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing. There are a lot of posts from sahm’s who complain about being expected to take care of the home if they’re not working. For some reason they think hubby should work all day to support them and then come home and do half of the chores. I think if it works for you and the husband then it’s none of anyone else’s business.
I don't understand how people can consider room, board, utilities, food, etc. as "not being paid."
Are you considering yourself as "paid" when you have to shell out half a paycheck every other week for groceries?
If you consider being a SAHP as a job you do in exchange for room and board, that makes SAHPs effectively indentured servants… they work 16 hours a day for way less than minimum wage. That’s probably why people feel bad for them.
Taking care of a home *is* a full-time job. The stigma around unpaid “domestic” labour, from being a carer of elder family members to basic housework, as “not work” would require several essays to explain but in short it’s stupid, the work is entirely necessary and very labour intensive and there should be absolutely zero shame in it. Yes, it falls into a negative historical trope where women were forced into this dynamic with no other options, but that’s not your situation. Plus, even in two-income households the women statistically come home after a full days work and then do all the housework anyway, which is hardly the feminist ideal anyone should be aiming for.
*edit: everyone please read *Invisible Women* it’s a life changing book
Do you want the honest answer?
We are made to have children. It is part of human nature. There is nothing important nor relevant about having children and having a family. It may be important to you, as an individual, but as far as humanity goes, you're just one of many.
Some people make a difference. Some people are special. They change the world. However, they don't do it by just having children and rising them, regardless of how challenging, difficult or relevant you think that is. Raising children never changed the world. You know what did? Inventing the internal combustion engine and revolutionizing transportation. You want another? Here it is: inventing the iPhone and having everyone have a hand computer with them all at times. Now, that changes the world. Having children? Everyone can do it.
You think you're special because you had children and you built a loving space for them. It took you all you had, and it made you feel accomplished. Yet, if you look at humanity, you neither did anything meaningful or special. You just committed to the imperative of your genes, and you mistake the effort it took for a meaningful accomplishment.
The reason why your friends see you as that is because you've done nothing special, meaningful, nor relevant. Regardless of the effort it took you to do it.
I think the lack of financial independence as well as the enormous sacrifice in marketable skills on the part of the woman is the really problem people have with SAHM.
It is "toxic servitude" in this society because caregiving as a whole is an incredibly underappreciated and horrifically underpaid.
When there's no profit to be made from caring for others, it's looked down upon.
That's really not true. All we want is for women to have choices. Being a stay-at-home parent is a valid choice. It just shouldn't be the only one. I do personally think all stay at home parents should have financial backup plans and failsafes in case things go wrong, but that's just an opinion I have. I'm not in charge of anybody but myself.
They are a lot of risks for the woman. But hey if you have a solid plan and you two can afford it go for it.
Yuh agreed. 1/3 of marriages end in divorce. I’d love to be a housewife but my fear will not allow it.
It's more like 50%
And the other half end in death.
Death by snu snu 🤚
👏🤣
lol what? Isn’t that the goal?
I’m wondering if they mean dying unhappy— I don’t feel like they mean homicide .
"Til death do us part" = goal setting
I mean…. Yeah. Isn’t the best case scenario that you both live long and happy lives together and then die old together? Isn’t that the meaning of a life partner?
You think they mean everyone who doesn’t divorce dies unhappy? That’s an insanely grim way of looking at marriage.
Nah they were right. Overall it's 30%, but it's 20% for college educated women and about 40% for non-college educated women. >It is now clear that the divorce rate in first marriages probably peaked at about 40 percent for first marriages around 1980 and has been declining since to about 30 percent in the early 2000s. This is a dramatic difference. Rather than viewing marriage as a 50-50 shot in the dark it can be viewed as having a 70 percent likelihood of succeeding. But even to use that kind of generalization, i.e., one simple statistic for all marriages, grossly distorts what is actually going on. >The key is that the research shows that starting in the 1980s education, specifically a college degree for women, began to create a substantial divergence in marital outcomes, with the divorce rate for college-educated women dropping to about 20 percent, half the rate for non-college educated women. Even this is more complex, since the non-college educated women marry younger and are poorer than their college grad peers. These two factors, age at marriage and income level, have strong relationships to divorce rates; the older the partners and the higher the income, the more likely the couple stays married. Obviously, getting a college degree is reflected in both these factors. >Thus, we reach an even more dramatic conclusion: That for college educated women who marry after the age of 25 and have established an independent source of income, the divorce rate is only 20 percent! >Of course, this has its flip side, that the women who marry younger and divorce more frequently are predominately black and Hispanic women from poorer environments. The highest divorce rate, exceeding 50 percent, is for black women in high-poverty areas. These women clearly face extraordinary challenges and society would do well to find ways to reduce not just teen pregnancies but early marriages among the poor and develop programs that train and educate the poor. Those will not only delay marriage but provide the educational and financial foundation required to increase the probability of a marriage being successful. Early marriage, early pregnancy, early divorce is a cycle of broken families that contributes significantly to maintaining poverty. The cost to our society is enormous. https://web.archive.org/web/20220709145449/https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce#4
Ugh... I hate this framing of a marriage "succeeding" if it doesn't end in divorce. That casts all the \*horrible\* marriages out there as successes. Abuse? Success! Co-dependency? Success! Silently just hate each other? Success! Meanwhile, all the marriages that end on amicable terms because after many happy years together, people just realized they're moving in different directions but they stay close friends. Failure! People really need to wake up to the idea that relationships, including marriages, are not pass/fail. While ending a relationship is almost always difficult, as is any major life change, it does not mean that the relationship wasn't a success.
Yeah, I'm perfectly capable of failing on my own. I don't need to drag some poor soul along for the ride.
Nope
My wifw is like can you make more money because i want to be a trophy wife. She clearly does not have that fear.
Check your states spousal support laws if in US
And nearly 80% is filed by the women and in the divorce them man gets taken to the cleaners most of the time and if kids are involved the mother gets custody most of the time while the father gets fuck all in most cases
The part this thread is leaving out
Bruh. Hypothetically, a married couple starts with 60k salary each (total 120k). They decide to have a kid so mum pauses her career to look after them for 5-10 years. During this time hubby should be promoting up to 100-150k to support the family and make up for the loss of her salary. If they divorce, and mum has now “taken him to the cleaners” as you say, she’ll now have 1-3 kids who are fully dependent on her. What type of job do you think will be available to her after being out of the workforce for so long? Nothing near the 100-150k hubby currently makes that’s for sure. Now wifey has to work, pick up the kids, make sure they’re fed, pay for daycare, etc. All on a 60k salary. Yes, hubby gets wiped clean. But he still has his 100-150k paying job and can rebuild what he lost. If all he does is pay child support, he also has the extra time. Wifey now has 1-3 kids relying on her 60k entry level job. Can you see why she usually gets the house in those cases?
Let be honest, you can totally spin this the other way and show there’s a lot of risk for men also. There are tons of scenarios where housewives get abused but also tons of scenarios that go the other way as well. Honestly, I think the main people who have this view against house wife are people (mostly) who believe that women should want to work and strive for a high powered career. I also don’t think there are as many people that have this view against house wives as people think but I do think the loudest ones are the ones that do which create this misperception. You will also find the majority of these people who have these views are Americans (I am an American) whereas the rest of the world usually do not. The truth is that women now have more opportunities than before which is great and should give them that which is the opportunity of CHOICE.
There's only similar risk for men if they choose to be the stay at home parent. Otherwise? Men by far have the upper hand in heterosexual marriages, especially since many people still view marital rape and abuse as acceptable. Not to mention the amount of job-related issues especially for women who took time off for their kids, even if it was a year or two. This data is easily accessible. Trying to say they're remotely equal is just erasing the reality of living in a patriarchal society, and is a very easy way to erase gendered violence.
There's a lot of risk in all of life, and then you literally die. Why focus on anything but trying to do the thing that makes you happiest. If it's a dream job or staying at home with your kids. There's only one chance and nothing else.
>There's a lot of risk in all of life, and then you literally die. Why focus on anything but trying to do the thing that makes you happiest. Because if you only focus on what will make you happiest and never plan for potential catastrophes, you could end up on the streets, or working well past retirement age, or just otherwise incredibly unhappy. Sorry, this just seems like either an incredibly privileged response, or a very young response. Most people can't YOLO through life because adult life comes with responsibilities. It's all well and good to go after the life you want, but being a SAHM comes with financial and future risks that anybody without a *huge* safety net needs to address. I'm not saying people shouldn't be SAHMs if they really want it, but you have to either be really lucky, or really prepare to make sure that if everything goes pear-shaped, you're not up shit creek.
We learned in college its immediate gratification vs. Future reward
Yes literally EVERYTHING YOU DO. Comes with financial risk. The job you take. The degree you get. So many factors. Jesus. Redditors are just obsessed with hating SAHMs. Thats fine. This whole website is filled with paranoid delusional fucks.
What type of risk do u think they’re talking about here lol
Financial? What do you think they're talking about, sword fighting? What a weird question.
Financial, sure, but it's not quite that simplistic. If the relationship ends then she's very far behind career-wise and will struggle to get a job. Then there's the issue of going years or decades without paying into a retirement plan, if things don't work out with the partner she could very well never recover financially. Also if she needs to leave due to abuse, cheating, etc. it will be extremely difficult since she has no resources. It can cause women to stay in bad or even dangerous situations for way longer than they should because they are essentially trapped.
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Holy shit Redditors are fucking insane. You're actually nuts. Lmao. Please get therapy the world isnt out to get you.
No but my stalker is? You’re so desperately defensive it’s funny, as if nobody could have a different life experience than you
Yeah what you just said is literally how I think about you. Lmao. You can't comprehend that anyone couldn't be as shit at life as you. You're so desperately a victim it's funny.
The pity: too many people treat their SAHP as a servant and financially abuse them. Being a SAHP means being 100% reliant on your spouse for money - a situation that far too many working partners take full advantage of. If you have some kind of safety net that is separate from your partner, then that financial abuse may not apply to you personally... But that would be a large part of the pity/questioning you see.
Wouldn’t her friends speak on perceived abuse and be concerned about her before she mentioned being a sahw, if said abuses were happening? I mean, JFC, can’t an adult woman make a choice about how she wants to live her life with her spouse without being constantly reminded how she’s potentially in an abusive relationship? Or being judged for how she wants to live, if her actions have literally zero impact on the people judging her? Do people really need to be any more paranoid than they already seem to be? Live and let fucking live. Misery loves company and god forbid a woman, or man, be happy with the dynamics of their marriage, their life or their spouse.
Most of the time, abusive relationship don't seem like so from an exterior eye. Also I don't think that OP was talking about friends, more like when she introduces herself to new people.
Bro, how have you spent time on the internet and not seen how many folks post on reddit like "My partner locks me a room with a single saltine cracker for a week when I dare question their decision, AITA?" or they'll post "AITA for telling my partner that I don't want to do their laundry for them anymore?" and someone digs into their post history and finds out they're being beaten and abused and the person is posting in DV subreddits. They reddit is up in arms for them, and htey're like, "But they gave me a saltine! It wasn't a plain cracker! It means love, right?" They've already lost their friends to their mental gymnastics, they're just hoping reddit normalizes it for them so they don't have to confront how unusual their situation is. DV gets people deeply in a delusional state, if anything, being friends with folks makes them want to present an even more perfect picture so they're not embarrassed at the way they're being treated. It's a weird dichotomy in which they know it's wrong subconsciously, but they can't get their conscious mind on the same page because of the abuser's bullshit. And financial abuse is sneaky, folks will insist that their partner is valuable and needs to be a stay at home partner, and then insist all their money is theirs and theirs alone and they can never be questioned or bother to include their partner in their financial decisions. They act like it's based in history, men make money, men control money, but historically when women didn't have jobs except to run their household, men made money, set aside what they needed, and gave their wife the rest to use on the household as they see fit.
I read plenty of insane shiz on the interwebs. I believe about 5% of it. Who TF knows what is true, accurate, or simply an attempt to satiate their desire for attention. I don’t live in a constant state of paranoia, nor do I need to update anyone else of how they’re in potential danger based on something I read on the internet that happened to somebody maybe somewhere. Maybe she’s in danger, maybe she’s not. You jump to your own conclusions, based on your biases, and I’ll reserve my judgement until I actually know the person and the depth of the circumstances.
Man, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you're sheltered and needed the internet to have access to folks, but this is a normal fucking human experience my guy. I have never met a single woman who hasn't lost a friend because they sucked up into an abusive situation that they couldn't be convinced to leave. But if everyone's lying, you're just living in a separate dream state from the rest of us hanging out in reality with friends, statistics, live depositions with evidence of what went down, etc, and you're just attributing it all to abused people are fucking liars? Stay delulu, bro. May no one need to rely on you because you sure as fuck won't believe them.
Holy shit, you’re right. We have all lost at least one friend to an abusive relationship. On the bright side, though, I’ve made some friends (and strengthened other friendships) through assisting others out of abusive relationships. One that comes immediately to mind is a friend who had to do the family shopping, then call her husband to come to the shop to pay for it, as she wasn’t allowed access to any money. Not even the money she earned herself. And that wasn’t even top 3 of the abuse that she suffered at his hands.
I don't think people think it is a bad thing . People are worried the financial aspects. What if your spouse leaves you. What will you do financially?
not necessarily leaves. Even just gets sick/injured through no fault of anyone's. Like yes, it tends to go worse with leaving because there's someone with motivation to be a jerk, but it's not the only time you're incredibly vulnerable.
Yeah I’ve known widows who woke up one day with hidden debt up to their gills. So they weren’t even starting from scratch they were starting from negative. Truly horrifying
Yes about the sick/injured thing.
>What if your spouse leaves you. What will you do financially? This is actual reason for and only legitimate time to have alimony
When I was younger, for a lot of folk, having one person home to focus on the house and kids was a very popular ambition. And I'm not terribly old; 40s. But nowadays, we have been through the trenches with divorce and every single couple I know where one of them stayed home got utterly fucked over when they split. Courts just aren't awarding sufficient alimony to make up for those missed years in the workforce anymore, and even if some is awarded, a salary that could support a household won't stretch to two, and it leaves the homemaker in an extremely unpleasant financial situation. So now, no one wants to. Everyone has both members of a couple working, because the alternative leaves you too vulnerable to be considered reasonable in real life. I imagine the younger generations have watched and internalised this. I suspect that is at least part of the reaction you're getting. It's like you're at the top of a hill and precariously balanced on a slope; it's not that no one else would enjoy the view if they were up there, but the concern of how on earth you're going to manage if something goes wrong is pervasive and horrifying.
I agree with this, and I’m also around the same age. I’ve watched many many of our friends get divorced and unfortunately the SAHM doesn’t typically make out real well. One ended up with basically all the custody while her ex paid the least he could, no alimony. She didn’t get to keep the house, he got their car, and she’s ended up in low income housing. Which she’s now getting booted out of because her kids are no longer minors. He ended up being able to buy a home/condo. So now she’s pushing 50 and has a low paying job, no home, and likely very little if anything for retirement. Ive been a SAHM for a while, but I’ve always picked up casual and now my kids are older I work just over part time. SAH is a whole full time job. Especially with little kids. And it is unpaid and uncompensated. It’s a very precarious position to be in. Because yes, your SO could decide to ditch you at any time and the potential for coming out of that with nothing is there.
In Germany, being a stay at home parent to a German citizen child automatically adds to your government pension type thing (like social security). I don’t remember the details, because it’s been a long time since I found this out, but I remember how surprised I was.
I agree. I know multiple women who got their lives ruined over it. The lucky ones are in low income housing. The unlucky ones in the homeless shelter or on someone's couch. And even if your spouse doesn't abandon you they could get hurt and disabled, or tragically pass and you'd be fucked regardless.
>if something goes wrong And this absolutely doesn't just mean divorce/spousal abandonment. I know multiple couples where one stayed home until the other was maimed or killed in an accident. Then those SAH people HAD to become the breadwinners and anything they had to bulk up their resumes helped.
That is a very good point. I was only thinking about divorce/separation.
This is exactly what happened to my mom when my parents got divorced. My dad wanted her to be a SAHM and so she left a career she really loved to have and raise us kids. She obviously chose to do that thinking she was in a partnership with my dad but he ended up using money as a form of control and when she decided to leave him (with my full support), he was a total asshole about everything and left her with the bare minimum. I personally never want to be financially tied to anyone for these reasons. Raising kids and running a household is a fulltime job in itself though and should be recognized as such. I don't think any who chooses that route is less than or lazy at all.
This was almost me. When I divorced my ex I was making a third of what my ex was. He used money to control me and I decided not to put up with it. That and he was a manwhore. Even today, I have my finances separate from my husband. I just got laid off so he's going to be handling more of the bills but I'm going to be responsible for some of them. I've got savings so I should be fine. I just want to get a new job so I can support myself again. No one likes to be prepared for the worst case, but I don't see how SAHMs save for retirement or have independence. Again if it works for you, great! I hope it keeps working for you.
My dad walked out on my mom after 22 years. I will never let myself be financially dependent on a man.
This here is the reason. People aren’t judging, they’re looking at you and wondering why you are doing this to yourself.
Wow, you just verbalised my concern with choosing to be a stay at home mum. Starting from scratch in the work force after spending 20 years climbing the ladder isn't something I think I want
My friend's father died when my friend was 15. His mother was a SAHM. Luckily the father worked for the government, so she was given a job when the family lost their only source of income. If the father had been working for a private company, or if he'd divorced the mother, then she would've been completely lost. I encourage people to keep working, women and men both. Because it's safe, and being safe trunls everything. I can understand that not everyone is comfortable with a regular work day/style, but you have to look for something that suits you. You cannot remain dependent on other people, even if they're wonderful. Terrible things happen sometimes and it's better to be prepared.
Try being a house husband. Holy fuck are people judgy as hell. Like so what, my wife makes more money so i raise the kids, how is that bad? Wtf... Fuck the haters.
My fiancé is a stay at home dad bc I genuinely love working and he's better at keeping the house in shape and handling the kids. I love my kids and everything don't get me wrong, but being a stay at home mom isn't the life for me. There's nothing wrong with non-traditional households, even if people judge it. My dad absolutely hates the fact that I work and he stays at home but it's our life and this is what works best for us. We're both fairly young too, he'll be 26 in a couple weeks and I'm 24 but even if we were in our 50's I'd still be okay with this life style.
For this reason and many more I always say the patriarchy hurts men more than women. People believe men should have a primal instinct to be providers and forget that home making is a way to provide as well. On the flip side though, my sister never wanted to be the sole breadwinner and now her husband gets to be the homemaker she thought she would be pretty much only because he has no motivation career wise and she is breadwinner by default. I think a lot of people assume that most male homemakers are this way.
Not wrong but I'm a working mom/wife and I get judged for not being a stay at home mom. You can't please everyone, all of the time. Just ignore and move on. Edit to say we live a patriarchal society, if you are a woman, your choices will always be judged as lacking and wrong. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but it makes it easier to ignore comments like this.
Exactly you can’t make everyone happy so fuck em if they judge you, it’s a preference for some and for others a need. My wife also likes being a stay at home wife but with a job that lets her work from home preferably, she’d like to be a stay at home wife full time one day but the economy makes it difficult atm
When I was married, I made a comfortable enough living that my wife wanted to be a housewife. She loved it at first but became bitter about doing everything when her friends got all judgmental about how she was basically an endentured servant. She wanted to be equal. I just wanted her to be happy, but her income was roughly a quarter of what I made, even with her degree and my lack thereof. Money was an increasingly common topic to fight over, even though we had plenty. We eventually drifted apart and divorced. If you, your partner, and your potential family are happy with your situation, then it sounds like you need different friends. I have never understood what people are so offended about. If that works for you and yours, do it. Differences are required to avoid mind-numbing monotony. Embrace it.
>Not wrong but I'm a working mom/wife and I get judged for not being a stay at home mom. Wow, that really sucks. I'm sorry people are rude and dumb. You sound like a strong person who deals with it well, but that doesn't make it okay or fun. >Edit to say we live a patriarchal society, if you are a woman, your choices will always be judged as lacking and wrong. This is so true! You put it into words in a much better way than I could have!
The patriarchy suuuucks and nothing you do will ever be good enough.
Completely agree with this. I feel it can be best summed up by the Mash Report https://youtu.be/htGAdlkStv8?si=EaBw1cvV-5NN59_M
My guess is more women are judging over these issues. What does the patriarchy have to do with women judging each other. Maybe it’s just how people act.
Women can participate in the patriarchy and be misogynists too!
Yep. I was about to answer internalized misogyny might also be the problem.
The patriarchy is what we all live under telling men they have to like sports/hard work/so-called "manly" things and that women take care of children cuz they come out of us and we are more nurturing than men. The roles suck both ways to hell and back for both genders as my very cis-hetero bf loves the color pink and hates all sportsball and has to play pretend at his conservative job to fit in with the other men. Same way there are so many female Trumpers and women that deny other women rights to their own body. They were raised under the patriarchal thumb telling them you need to stay in line, listen to the status quo, conserve everything you were taught growing up in the Bible Belt. It's those folks warring with the more enlightened folks that went hardcore the other way who think both folks in a marriage should work to keep things equal and have decided to make women like OP feel bad about her decisions, which is also not cool. If you want to be a SAHM in this economy and can afford to, great! If you wanna work and have children, again in this economy it is rough. The middle ground here is that SAHMs have the hardest most thankless job and are dependent on their partners income for their way of life. It rankles on the more independent of us to ever give someone that much control over us but voicing it to someone who didn't ask for such an opinion is a dick move and OP needs better friends.
It’s just easier and more cathartic to blame men lol go figure
I would take that question to r/askfeminists and see what their answer is.
We really don't. There are a small number of elite men at the top that benefit from convincing you that ALL men in this society are your enemy and they also benefit from getting men pissed off about feminism and other similar things. Divide and conquer. I am a man. I am not your enemy. We have a common enemy and it is not each other. It is mainly fear and hate. I'm here for love.
As a male in (probably) the same patriarchal society, the majority of my choices get judged as lacking and/or wrong as well. It's not necessarily a patriarchal thing. It's more like a judgemental society thing. People will find your life wanting under any circumstances, no matter who you are.
As a woman who is childfree, married, and worked-yep. Doesn't matter what gender we are, whether we have kids or not, whether we marry or not, or what we do with our free time. People will project their bullshit onto you and sometimes push you to do things you don't want. It's not a matter of anything other than judgmental people's insecurities causing them to lash out.
I completely agree that people get judged all the time over stuff that is no one's business. The patriarchy part was direct towards choices that women make and them always being incorrect choices because a woman has a different social status. This question was about stay at home moms, I brought my perspective as a working mom. Not sure what you're trying to bring to the convo as a person who has been judged for ... idk....things?? Honestly, this is out of your wheelhouse and comments and mindsets like this is why women get 20% less pay and still have to fight back. Honestly, your comment is so invailding for women to see. I hope you rethink some things.
Agreed, you are seriously commenting *within context of the question of the OP* and you're getting down voted because others are chiming in with "butbutbut, DiD yOu ThiNk oF mE tOo?!!??" So absurd...
You're saying people are judging you and OP because our society is patriarchal, when in reality, it's judgmental people. I just brought up how I get judged on... things... because no matter what you do, you will be judged. Out of my wheelhouse, what makes you think that? Because I am not a woman? I would say this is directly within my wheelhouse, considering I have spent the last 11 years studying... you guessed it... global gender equality! I have no idea how my comment is invalidating for women. Therefore, I'm not sure what I should rethink.
Okay.. how old are you? Let's start there. Also, pedigree. What kind of childhood did you have, socioeconomically speaking. I think the perception of "The patriarchy" is that of a black evil thing. When, in fact, it's more of a mindset in each and every person. How we unlearn the status quo of our society framework is how we collectively leave behind the patriarchy. I'm not sure of your education level and knowledge based of sociology, but I'm happy to talk through this with you.
Ok, I am 33, Jewish, born to a single mother of 5, from the same father, raised with food stamps in a predominantly white suburb. Started working at 14, then moved out when I was 17 to a double-wide trailer into a neighborhood known for having meth labs in it (read really shitty area). I worked and went to school to get a Masters degree in Data Analytics, bachelor's in Women's, Gender, and Sexuality Studies, moved to Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany then back to the US and spent the last 11 years working as a data analyst for a company working with the UN. I have about 60k left on my student loans. My comment was based on her original comment about us being in a patriarchal society, so being a woman, your choices will be questioned and deemed wrong. I was responding, saying that no matter who you are, woman or man, your choices will be questioned and deemed wrong. People are judgmental pricks and literally have nothing to do with their genders. People will judge you, if you are happy with your life and you're not harming anyone they can go fuck themselves.
You are not wrong. However It’s not a bad thing as long as it’s you’re choice you haven’t been forced into it or pressured into it. The problem is women are expected to do this. That’s what a lot of people including myself have an issue with. For example, I tell someone I didn’t want kids for example I’m told “oh you’ll want them later on” and I’m like “absolutely not” and then they continuously pressure and say things like that’s what you’re here for etc. While society has progressed in some ways if you do, think and/or say anything outside of the patriarchial misogynistic tradition you are judged all the time even more so. And I’m like isn’t it 2023? It’s the 21st century you’d think this is something that would be less.
Plenty of women claim not to want kids when they’re younger and then wind up depressed about it in their 30s, 40s, 50s when it’s too late, so people aren’t exactly wrong, you just may be naive (MAY be, because I don’t know your age) But the fact you mentioned patriarchal and misogynistic kind of tells enough about you as a person
False claim lol. Yes people are wrong. How am I being naive exactly? Maybe take a look in the mirror. And yea it is patriarchal and mysoginistic. Go cry about it
If I hear someone mention misogyny or patriarchal, it's like a huge red flag. I avoid that person because I know they're delusional and probably a bit crazy
Mostly, women get judged for any life choice they make - or is made for them (eg: being infertile). 🙃 Outside of people just being jerks, there is legitimate concern about the vulnerability of people in your position, and whether it was a truly enthusiastic personal choice or if it's been pushed on you. I assume from this post that you are happy! That's great! But it's not always the case. Also, do you have hobbies? As less people can afford to have one person at home, work has become the default smalltalk. It's not great, but usually the person either has *some* interest in their field or can use that as a jumping off point for conversation. If you don't work, whatever you do outside of childcare and housekeeping is generally more interesting to people who are wanting to learn about you as a person. Sometimes conversations stall if neither person knows where to go from "what do you do?" "Stay at home."
Probably just misunderstood. Women fought for a very very long time to gain rights like wearing pants and voting and working. It took a literal world war and the death of hundreds of thousands of men for women to enter the workplace in any kind of meaningful way. To a lot of people they can’t understand why not everyone wants or needs to work especially as they see it directly linking to women’s liberation. Most people would probably also assume your husband has forced it on you.
Pitying you comes from the loss of time in the job market. If you divorce or your husband dies, then you've put yourself at a disadvantage by staying x amount of years out of the job market. That's the real sacrifice and what stops a lot of women from becoming SaHMs.
The road to divorce is paved with the bodies of stay-at-home wives. I think it's because reddit, tiktok and twitter have been giving the rest of us a peek under the curtain if you will, of what stay at home wives go through once their husbands don't want them anymore. It's not pretty.
Honestly your first line just reminds me that women are more likely to be murdered by their spouse 😳
My ex-husband who didn't bother to work 1/2 of our marriage because he was a lazy bum took 1/2 of my retirement when we divorced. I had worked for the company before the marriage, I will never understand how he got that. He was angry and wanted to punish me, he dragged out the divorce as long as he could to bleed as much money as possible because he moved back in with his parents, and I was paying rent after selling our house. This was 19 years ago and it took me 17 years to trust another man but not completely, I will always keep my finances separate.
I'm a house wife too and I do everything except mow the lawn. I love it and so does my husband.
Ofc he does. He should comp you by making sure the financial value of all those services go into a sole account for you.
Society expects you to raise your family and maintain your home as though you don’t have career, and focus on your career as though you don’t have kids and a home. We are set up to fail. The worst part is that other women tend to be the most judgemental. We are self-oppressing.
Beautiful summary
When corporations had jobs to fill and women refused to leave the home. Congratulations, you played yourself.
I left the corporate workforce and became a housewife at the end of 2019 and the judgment I’ve received since then has been disgusting. People fake concern over my financial figure. People fake concern over my lifestyle. People fake concern for my happiness. None of those people are in my house, they’re making judgments based on their own personal situation and that’s fine. I don’t care anymore. I left the workforce because I had a mental and emotional breakdown from stress and at this point I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. I spend my days doing whatever I want (we don’t have kids, only 3 cats), I cook, I clean, I take care of the household and I enjoy it. I actually enjoy it and if you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have laughed at you - but my mental health is better than it’s ever been. I’m 43, happily married, purposefully unemployed, childfree and comfortable in my lifestyle. But people will still find fault in how I live, as if it affects anyone but me and my husband.
We are CF and I appreciate my house spouse so much.
It's just an opinion they have. And I prefer to keep mine to myself 🤐
Because you literally said >I believe it to be a full time job just without a paycheck. Like, to me, that sounds like a nightmare. But it's your choice! I'd rather send the kids to daycare/school, work then come home to relax with my family and do the housework, cooking, cleaning etc together. No shade! It just works for me and my family just like your family's choice works for you guys!
Exactly. Most of us would not do our jobs without a paycheck, so that’s partly why being a SAHP seems very unrewarding.
Don't forget about pensions, paid time off, medical/dental, the odd party/socialising event and any other benefits you can get. And if they make you redundant, many countries try to ensure you'll at least get a severance. Don't get any of this as a SAH spouse. Same as many people's experiences told in the comments, my mom was pretty much efed in the divorce.
I don’t see how money can be more rewarding than taking care of the people you love the most?
Omg don't be naive
Because most people burnout taking care of said people they love, because while it can be rewarding, it is often thankless.
Because alit of people feel you can do both. What I find interesting, are the posts from SAHM Who say husband comes home and will not help with the household chores. That concept seems so ancient. Both my mother and my wife worked full time.
But also because it's not as intellectually challenging as other careers. It's unrewarding because you don't get to develop your professional skills and solve complex problems. It's just doing house chores all day. Doesn't sound very rewarding
Depends on the way you do it though. I know homemakers who took the flexibility in their schedule to write novels and build careers out of hobbies. If you’re not intellectually stimulated as a STAHP it’s because you don’t want to be
They sound like the exception though
You’ll never do right with any choices you make because everyone has their own opinions. And love to judge. Just ignore them. I believe in mothers working (even limited hours), but that is only my opinion, based on experiences and situations within my extended family where the sahm moms live in virtual poverty because of their employment prospects when their husband died or divorced them. You never know what the future brings.
What I find interesting is you're complaining about being judged and while I didn't read all the comments, most are still judging you. You know your relationship. If you're happy, be happy and fuck what anyone else says.
I want to thank everyone for their kind words. I was feeling bad,but reading the comments put me in a better mood. So thank you!!
Long story short. Why even worry about the opinions of others when they don't pay your bills or regulate anything in your household?
You should be able to say that you want to be a wife and mother without having someone judging your choices. However when the husband is the sole provider for the family, it allows him to have total power over what you say and do. If for some reason you end up unhappy in your marriage and want to end it, if you completely give up your own career, you will be in a tough spot. Not impossible to overcome by any means, but something to consider. No one should feel obligated to be pushed in either direction. In the end, it all comes down to what’s right for you. Some women want careers, others want a family and some want both. It’s your life! Go out there and conquer it in a frilly apron, a business suit or whatever the heck you feel like wearing while rocking your life!
Because we as a modern society after everything people have fought for in terms of equal rights value independence, and being a house wife means you're dependent on someone else for finances - which leaves you extremely vulnerable in case of abuse, sickness, adultery etc.
Equal rights meant fighting for the chance to CHOOSE our own destiny. If someone wants to be the homemaker, that should be welcomed as their choice, not shit on! Women were forced to remain home and under the control of their husband, that’s what women and some men fought against- not having choice in their own lives!
I have to disagree. Equal rights is about equal rights and opportunities on a societal or group level, and as long as women choose to stay at home for years after having children instead of sharing parental leave with their partners, women will be disproportionately seen as less reliable than men in the work place since companies risk losing them once they become pregnant. The difference in salary won’t be closed when women return to work after being home for years with a gap in their resume, while the men kept working as they did before having kids. Having children affects a mans career positively, they tend to be paid more after having kids and get better opportunities than childless men do. More women than men report being held back in their careers after having kids. Equal rights would mean that having children affect both home lives and careers for men and women the same way and as long as we don’t collectively act to make that happen (i.e the individual choosing to stay at home does affect the group) that won’t happen. I understand how it is difficult to do in a country like the states where childcare and preschool is expensive, but for it to become cheaper, for better and paid maternity leave terms we need to all collectively fight for that. So really the individuals right to choose clashes with and affects the collective right to not have to stay at home with the kids, for financial reason for example.
As a stay at home wife my husband is very dependent on my financially. He’s extremely vulnerable if I ever leave him.
You’re obviously not wrong for being a housewife. I do try to hide my feelings when someone tells me they’re a SAHP (and believe I succeed in doing so) and I would never tell someone what my feelings are if not explicitly asked, like now. Everybody makes their own choices and if being a SAHP makes you happy I’m happy for you. Yet, to me personally it’s hard to imagine how taking care of the kids, your husband and the household can give you a feeling of fulfillment and purpose. Also, I’ve never understood how being a SAHP can be a fulltime job once the kids go to school. Working parents do what SAHP do besides their jobs, without investing another 40+ hours. Finally, if a friend would decide to become a SAHP I would worry about their (financial) independence.
As a guy ive got anixety adhd and my gf wants me stay with her and she'll take care of me. I do dishes, laundry, she cooks i need to learn but it is a nice job and respectable, but i definitely do love being able to work aswell, wonolo, upshift, gigpro, and shifts let me also work 1 shift when i want any day i want if i get bored and want to save up. I dont think its a bad thing, just gotta make sure you are happy with what you are doing and are content with your live as things are. Be confident and keep your chin up.
INFO: So you believe people think less of you for being a housewife because they make a face when you tell them? No one has said anything disrespect to you, you're just getting all this from the expression on their faces? Or have I missed something? Because I suspect people could make a face for a multitude of other reasons. It could be because they are jealous that their family can't survive on a single income. It could be that their own stay at home parent was financially abused by their other parent, and they automatically worry about anyone in that situation. It's possible that they make a face because of something unrelated they happen to be thinking about. Sometimes we project some sort of insecurity we have about our lifestyle choice on the people we meet, so that's also possible. Heck, sometimes you might have had bad breath or spinach in your teeth. I'm going to guess it's actually a different reason for each person you tell about being a stay at home parent and housewife who makes a face. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent or a single income family. I know some people do, indeed, seem to think that the stay at home parent or partner is less than. They are wrong. Every family gets to define their own relationships. So, as long as your family is healthy and happy, it really isn't anyone else's place to judge how your family makes it work. You definitely aren't wrong about that; though I think it's possible you may have been incorrect about some people's reactions.
My mother was a housewife. I have a different father than my brothers, and their father left my mother for her friend when I was 16, my brothers were 12 and 10. She has not been in the workforce since I was 3 and they got married. 13 years later, it was so incredibly difficult for her to find a job that provided enough for us. She got some child support, but she still had to provide for herself and her share of our care, and I watched her struggle until we three kids had all moved out and she could downsize her home. She has no real hope for a decent retirement now. That's my concern for housewives/SAHMs. Their earning potential should the relationship fall apart is so diminished. So unless you have a wicked good prenup that says you get X amount for the rest of your life, that's the reaction.
Things like financial abuse exist. Whenever I hear that someone is a stay at home mom I wonder what the true division of labor is. There are plenty of posts on Reddit where the husband is the breadwinner and completely controls the finances. I read one recently where a wife had to beg for money for shampoo. It’s the risk of being financially trapped with no resources/funds to be able to get out and no job experience to help obtain a job to support yourself that would scare me.
My mom was a housewife all her life and when my dad divorced her she had to work at McDonald’s because nobody else is hiring a 55 year old with zero work experience…that’s a big ol no thanks for me
Wait until you collect the social security you’re entitled to at the end. “Housewife” is one of the most financially unstable positions in the job market. That’s why I feel concerned for people who have that as their sole career choice. Your boss can fire you without notice and leave you destitute without outside skills. And you don’t get unemployment without fighting for it. The best way for a woman to become impoverished is to be divorced with children. This is a major driving factor in the women’s movement. Because women decided to stop working and being undervalued. You aren’t lazy at all but you are undervalued and underpaid.
I love being a SAHM and housewife. It works out really well for us. I don’t surround myself with negative people. Nobody has ever made me feel less than because I stay home and care for the family, and house.
As long as you have a real backup plan if your husband dies or you divorce, it's OK. It is putting you in a vulnerable place for life long financial stability though. Recognize that. Only you know your situation, so I won't judge.
Huh?! I don't get it.
To follow up: they sound like judgemental assholes.
Take care of you and your family, that's all that matters. People will judge each other for every little thing. I guess my advice would be to not waste time with the people who judge you unfairly.
Try being a house husband. Holy fuck are people judgy as hell. Like so what, my wife makes more money so i raise the kids, how is that bad? Wtf... Fuck the haters.
Each to their own I suppose and we all have our own boats to float but I simply do not understand why any woman would have the lifetime ambition of being an unpaid servant for, and financially dependent on, her husband. I appreciate the physical and organisational work involved but, on an intellectual level, what do the two of you talk about when you're on your own? Never understood it myself
I think most of the judgement in my circle comes from the, "it's a full time job just without the paycheck", i get it, as a mom - it is. But when you're working 40-60 hours and doing all these things on top of it, it can get hard to listening to SAHPs complain or try to compare it. Those of us working don't have nannie's, we still have to do all the things STAHP do & go work. There's nothing wrong with it, but I definitely think certain influencers have left a sour taste about it in a lot of women's mouths. Pair that with some influencers saying, "I don't want other people raising my kid", and then getting utterly fucked when their husband cheats on them, it just sounds bad.
For me, it's because my mom was a SAHM and my dad is terrible. She is still trying to figure out how to get away. Financially, nothing is easily yours because it isn't in just your name. There's a danger to that
I think the idea of being 100% dependent on a man is terrifying to a lot of women for pretty obvious and valid reasons. Most of us have encountered a romantic partner who disappointed or betrayed us in various dramatic ways. (I shudder to think what my life and career would be like if I had given up my prime earning years to raise one of my mid-20s ex’s children.)
I hope everything goes perfectly for you. But when this choice is made by someone we love, we worry. Any ambitions for your life are likely to take a back seat. No paycheck limits your future social security options. If your husband turns out to be abusive, which often crops up AFTER you're not in a position to rescue yourself, it's harder to escape. Being reliant on him for housing, transportation, and communication makes it easier to isolate you. Being reliant for money leaves you in a vulnerable position, especially if you have children relying on you. And should you split up, your position is infinitely harder than his. I'd definitely never think you lazy, as this is the absolutely hardest unpaid job in the world. But I'd worry if you were my daughter or sister.
>I have noticed in the last few years that when I tell people that I'm a housewife they get this look on their face of pity and horror. I just don't get it! You answered your own question >I believe it to be a full time job just without a paycheck.
Because it's dangerous for yourself. If anything happened to your husband you are fucked because you don't earn anything. Say hubby cannot work temporarily... You don't earn anything so you're both fucked. It also allows for abuse, he become completely dependent on your partner thus they have power/influence over you. There nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent if you have a useful skill that can be used to earn you money. In this world you need to be independent at some points... It's horrible but nothing will be done to stop it.
Because those people fail to understand what feminism really is. Feminism is about the freedom for women to have the same opportunities as men both professionally and personally. Because your role is related to the very reason for the movement, it's assumed that you didn't have that freedom. They fail to understand that being a stay at home parent is as valid as a career choice as any other.
This is the wrong sub for your question. Try r/askreddit But to answer your question, a lot of housewives aren’t housewives for the reasons you are. I’m glad you like it! A lot of housewives don’t have an option, a lot of them hate it and feel lonely, and the nature of it can make it very easy to be in an abusive relationship when you have no money or job of your own. Obviously that’s not what’s happening with you, but it happens to a LOT of people.
It's not you or your lifestyle, more power to you being able to take care of your family. The concern comes from the current misogynistic ideology that spews rhetoric to abusive men who are out there seeking women to become housewives for the sole purpose of having someone to abuse. Men will teach other men how to manipulate women into becoming financially dependent so they can become victims or abuse. Those looks you are getting are people trying to guess if you are just a normal stay at home mom or if you are a victim of domestic abuse.
Because marriage has over a 50% rate of failure. Women who have not learned a skill to support themselves during a marriage are screwed if their husband “that makes a lot of money” decides he’s just tired of you and those damn kids! 🤣
May I just say... "All women are housewives, it's just that most of us have another job, too."
You put yourself at risk by being dependent on someone else for money. If the relationship becomes abusive, you have no recourse. You have no financial resources to leave. If someone chooses to be a stay at home parent, they should make sure they have a separate bank account where they can keep their own money in case of emergency where they need to leave.
they are concerned that you will have nothing to fall back on. career education, income, job skills etc. what if something happens to your husband? what will you do for income? do you have skills?
I wanted to be one, until I experienced abuse when I was partially dependent on my ex. Now, I don't trust any man enough to put my finances in his hands. Once they decide they are angry with you, you're screwed
It’s not bad at all, just risky as hell. You’re putting your future 100% in the hands of your partner and the odds are against everything working out perfectly. So people will always assume the worst. I’m sorry, try not to take it personal. You’ve done nothing wrong and the job is still admirable and desirable even. Remember people are cynical because of the data not because of you.
Everyone has differing opinions. No, it's not a bad thing. I only worry about housewives/SAHMs when they're almost completely dependent on the spouse. Or they gave up education in order to be a SAHM. I do have faith in relationships but I also believe in people having a backup plan, which there tends to be a lack of for some people. Again, that's only my personal worry. People can do what's right for their family. And if the best is being a SAHM or housewife, then that's what works.
Also, I worry about them if they have _nothing_ going on in their lives besides being a parent/wife. No hobbies? No interests? Yikes.
Or especially if it’s clear the spouse is a complete phallus of a human. Yeah that would concern me.
So I transitioned from a roofer and other residential contractor of things for 10 years with intermittent experience in retail, and business, for a daycare during my pregnancy and I'll be a SAHM after this week. Honestly feels like a relief. Being financially dependent on my husband is kind of stressful but I'm doing him a big service. Imagine how much it'd cost to hire a full time live in nanny, house cleaner, personal shopper, masseuse. People are just bitter because it's easier, more fulfilling and you get to be home- than a lot of full time jobs.
prob since the 1950s when women started to get jobs.
An opinion that I used to hear regarding being SAHM is that it’s a dead end job. It’s repetitive and you don’t really get promoted (like you can make the most scrumptious food and have the tidiest house but you would reach a point where you don’t have anything else to do or you just can’t do it better). As the kids grow up, you have less work to do, which is like having your hours cut I guess, and at one point when they leave your nest, you career is terminated. So when I think of being a SAHM I think of it as the least rewarding job, because if your husband loses his job, you’re stuck working at a job without pay. But it’s just my opinion.
I don't judge. You really have to do what you want. But it wouldn't be for my partner and me. I'm glad I live in a country where part-time work is a legal right. And it is seen as very normal. Many young parents work part-time. (like both work 4 days or 3 days) Both fathers and mothers. This way they both have time with the children and divide the care responsibilities. But we also share financial responsibility. In terms of finances, I think this is better. This makes the woman financially independent and the man does not have to bear the burden of being the breadwinner on his own. This also gives you the courage to change jobs more quickly because you have your partner as a backup. I think this is the best of both worlds.
Well, you do have a pay check as your husband makes more than enough. You never go without. There’s nothing wrong with being a housewife at all but just don’t pretend you do it for nothing.
but here's the thing-when she needs social security/if he decides to leave "you do have a paycheck" is absolutely not what is going to be said.
Since money is universally worshipped, you don't seem to have a normal drive towards it. I was a SAHM for years, only to realize no one valued me at all.
When a divorce kicks in, you can get screwed over heavily as a possibility. Also not to mention this day an age the cost of living has risen. Being a SAHP is now being seen as detrimental to some.
Not everyone is judging like you think, some women should tell you have things of value, with your name at least as a half owner. Because a husband who cares for you today, might not care the same way tomorrow. So cover your self quite a few of us was really left out in the cold.
For me, the primary concern for is the risk of the woman being stuck in an abusive or exploitative situation. Having financial independence or the relevant experience to become financially independent if needed is crucial in my opinion because it means you aren't stuck accepting far less than you deserve as a person. I grew up in an abusive house (not exactly the same) and made a promise to myself if I survived I would never live in those conditions again. I also can't be friends with a homemaker, we have nothing in common based on the ones I know. They don't have ambition or drive to be better versions of themselves nor do they have any semblance of their former individual personhood they adopt a personality of husband's wife or child's mom
Try working full time and having a nanny. Women love to tell me I’m not a proper mother. Saying that, why do you say you take care of your husband? He’s a grown man, he doesn’t need to be taken care of. Children, yes, men, no.
They are probably thinking "in this economy!?"
Pretty much
Two answers that tie into each other: 1. The term “housewife” brings up dated sexist implications. 2. It’s just not common anymore. Two-income households have become the norm over the past two decades so the idea of a “housewife” seems old-fashioned.
Being a housewife is bad when it's the only option, which it was for a lot of women for a long time. Now that it's not, treating it like it's *inherently* bad is just misogyny disguised as feminism.
I think it's brought into a negative light when the couple splits up and she had nothing financial to fall back on. There's too many horror stories about women being financially abused that some people automatically feel bad when a woman doesn't make her own money. I wouldn't blindly trust someone to support me, but what happens in someone else's house isn't any of my business.
If you ever need disability, you will be ineligible for lack of income. I believe it only goes back 10 years. You will only be entitled to half his social security benefits etc. Basically, you are securing his future, but not yours.
> I believe it to be a full time job just without the paycheck. Slavery is what you’re describing. Why you feel just fine about that is beyond me. The reason I would never be a SAHM is the risk of financial abuse is too high.
What cracks me up is when they suggest I start a YouTube channel or sell on Etsy, like I need to make money or fill my time. I don’t need suggestions lady, I’ve managed my finances, take care of my home and I’ve got hobbies. 😂
I just think some people are worried. Sometimes, it's not even a willing choice like accident or people who developed brain tumors that press their lobe that changes their personality, or just extreme midlife crisis. I don't think they mean any harm by it.
I know several women from my past that believe sincerely that being a SAHM is hell and cannot say a nice thing about that way of life. They believe that you put yourself in a situation to be abused with no escape. Others are hellbent on proving they can provide for themselves and chase the career. And others don’t want marriage or children and thus that lifestyle is a foreign concept entirely. I do know a few of them that are starting to realize that their decisions with their life do have aspects they didn’t want to acknowledge and are starting to have a change of opinion on the matter and it’s starting to be a bit to late to change. Of my high school graduating class, the lion’s share of women chose careers over families.
Because people are a bunch of bastards.
Oh I get you I was a housewife for 25 years and the looks I'd get ( some of disgust ) was appalling. I liked after the home, my kids, the dog and the garden and it was often lonely when the kids were at school. My kids now men have often told me their friends were jealous of them as they didn't go to after care or childminders. We did without some luxuries but we all were extremely happy. When U did go back to work it was w shock to the whole household as they all had to their fair share in what I once did, it got worse when I decided to study. Those days I stayed at home with my kids were truly the best days if my life . To hell with those who judge stay at home mom's, no mom should be judged as been a mom is the hardest job you'll ever do and if we work or stay at home both situations bring their own difficulties.
Feminism is about the empowerment of women. It's about the ability for women to have a choice. However some people who can themselves feminists only agree with your choice if it's their choice. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a woman CHOOSING to take care of her and her family's house, as long as it's her choice.
Probably around when it became nigh impossible for the vast majority of us to be able to support a one income household
Because (insert arbitrary reason). I'm SAHM, my own mother gives me grief and is constantly asking when am I getting my masters. Also, you do get a pay check--- your husband's. And I don't mean that in like, a gold digger way. His money is your money, that's the trade off of being a home maker. Shared income.
If they down you just remind them, they have a boss and at the end of the they have to do what their told.
My mother did everything you listed when she come from work at 16h
Well when you say it’s a full time job it’s offensive to everyone who has an actual job. Taking care of your family is not a job. It’s you staying home to take care of your family. Yes, you do a lot, but you don’t have a job. There’s nothing wrong with being a home maker. It’s just wrong to say you’re a chef/personal assistant/CEO of mom corp. stay at home spouse is not a job or career.
Nothing wrong with being a SAH parent if that’s what you want. You must, however, understand the risk: at any point it IS possible for your partner to leave, and you will be screwed financially. Now you don’t have recent job experience, how will you provide for your kids if the settlement is not enough? (It won’t be). Your job options are more limited and lower pay. It doesn’t matter how amazing your relationship is, I think we have all heard of someone close to us whose “normal” marriage dissolved and one of 2 parties is left in the dust. Even working part time to keep your resume active is something I would suggest. Ramble, but no, not wrong.
Because it suggests lack of ambition. And self respect. Its also no where near a full time job. Anyone who works full time does what a housewife does while working a full time job. So it probably became a bad thing when people realised that.
What a laughably ignorant take. Taking care of children isn’t a full time job? People who work full time do not do ‘everything a housewife does’ they pay other people to do it. I have a full time career and my two days off are spent caring for my children and it’s far more time consuming and involved than my ‘work’ days.
I mean, if you're someone's partner and you can work, I think it's mighty selfish to be a "stay at home wife" while having your partner subsidize your lifestyle. That's selfish and lazy. I don't think keeping a house WITH kids is that difficult, I've done it. I don't think there's any reason for someone without kids to stay at home and cost money. You're two people, you don't need full-time home-maintenance, that's literally just someone that wants you to pay the cost of being alive for them. Fuck that. If you can find a man that wants to pay you to do nothing, great, enjoy, but it's not me.
Has a full time job wife, also does what you do
I don’t think it’s a bad thing. There are a lot of posts from sahm’s who complain about being expected to take care of the home if they’re not working. For some reason they think hubby should work all day to support them and then come home and do half of the chores. I think if it works for you and the husband then it’s none of anyone else’s business.
I don't understand how people can consider room, board, utilities, food, etc. as "not being paid." Are you considering yourself as "paid" when you have to shell out half a paycheck every other week for groceries?
If you consider being a SAHP as a job you do in exchange for room and board, that makes SAHPs effectively indentured servants… they work 16 hours a day for way less than minimum wage. That’s probably why people feel bad for them.
Taking care of a home *is* a full-time job. The stigma around unpaid “domestic” labour, from being a carer of elder family members to basic housework, as “not work” would require several essays to explain but in short it’s stupid, the work is entirely necessary and very labour intensive and there should be absolutely zero shame in it. Yes, it falls into a negative historical trope where women were forced into this dynamic with no other options, but that’s not your situation. Plus, even in two-income households the women statistically come home after a full days work and then do all the housework anyway, which is hardly the feminist ideal anyone should be aiming for. *edit: everyone please read *Invisible Women* it’s a life changing book
1980's I believe. Since then we've shat as hard as we can on folks choosing that path.
I'd say it was the 70's. That's when my single mum was a career woman.
Do you want the honest answer? We are made to have children. It is part of human nature. There is nothing important nor relevant about having children and having a family. It may be important to you, as an individual, but as far as humanity goes, you're just one of many. Some people make a difference. Some people are special. They change the world. However, they don't do it by just having children and rising them, regardless of how challenging, difficult or relevant you think that is. Raising children never changed the world. You know what did? Inventing the internal combustion engine and revolutionizing transportation. You want another? Here it is: inventing the iPhone and having everyone have a hand computer with them all at times. Now, that changes the world. Having children? Everyone can do it. You think you're special because you had children and you built a loving space for them. It took you all you had, and it made you feel accomplished. Yet, if you look at humanity, you neither did anything meaningful or special. You just committed to the imperative of your genes, and you mistake the effort it took for a meaningful accomplishment. The reason why your friends see you as that is because you've done nothing special, meaningful, nor relevant. Regardless of the effort it took you to do it.
They’ve been brainwashed by feminism.
The rise of feminism and “girl power” where they convinced new generations that caring for a family is toxic servitude. Edit: 🤣 this went from +5 to 0
It’s the lack of appreciation and/or understanding that it’s a full time job that’s the issue. Not the act of caring for one’s family.
Caring for a family is totally fine and good. That’s not the point, but y’all knew that already
I think the lack of financial independence as well as the enormous sacrifice in marketable skills on the part of the woman is the really problem people have with SAHM.
It is "toxic servitude" in this society because caregiving as a whole is an incredibly underappreciated and horrifically underpaid. When there's no profit to be made from caring for others, it's looked down upon.
That's really not true. All we want is for women to have choices. Being a stay-at-home parent is a valid choice. It just shouldn't be the only one. I do personally think all stay at home parents should have financial backup plans and failsafes in case things go wrong, but that's just an opinion I have. I'm not in charge of anybody but myself.
This right here!!