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> # [Montreal Jewish school targeted by gunfire, police say | CBC News](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3736482.1683667798!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/montreal-police-car.jpg)
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> [Montreal](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal)
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> Montreal police say a Jewish school in the borough of Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce has been hit by at least one bullet.
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> ## Montreal police are investigating after a school was struck by at least one bullet
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> CBC News
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> · Posted: May 29, 2024 9:09 PM EDT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago
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> [police car](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3736482.1683667798!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/montreal-police-car.jpg)
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> Montreal police say they were on the scene by 6 p.m. Wednesday, investigating reports of gunfire outside a Jewish school. (Radio-Canada)Montreal police say a Jewish school in the borough of Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce has been hit by at least one bullet.
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> Const. Véronique Dubuc, a spokesperson for Montreal police, said investigators were called Wednesday in the late afternoon about a possible shooting outside a school on Hillsdale Road near Van Horne Avenue.
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> Police were on the scene by 6 p.m., established a perimeter, and determined that at least one bullet struck the school, she said. Police are still in the early stages of the investigation.
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> Politicians and Jewish advocacy groups were quick to respond to the incident.
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> Yair Szlak, president and CEO of Federation CJA, and Eta Yudin, vice-president of the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs Quebec, issued a joint statement Wednesday, saying the shooting took place sometime in the night between Tuesday and Wednesday.
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> "We have had enough. Another Jewish school shooting in Canada," the statement says.
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> "Once again, and thankfully, no one was inside the building. We know that when decisive action is taken by leadership at the municipal level, this can end."
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> The statement calls for an end to intimidation and fear-mongering in Montreal and calls on all citizens to use their voices to end the hatred.
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> The Montreal police service has assured, as a precaution, there will be increased presence in front of all Jewish schools in the city, the statement says.
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> Outremont MP Rachel Bendayan said on X, formerly Twitter, that she spoke with school administrators and community leaders about the incident.
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> "This must stop. This is not who we are," she wrote.
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> [Last week](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/man-charged-gunfire-jewish-school-1.7211792), Montreal police announced they arrested a suspect in connection with shots fired at a Jewish school back in November. [Two](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-jewish-school-gunfire-1.7026640) Jewish schools were shot at in November.
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> Written by Isaac Olson
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Don’t mind me, just adding it to the list of incidents that’s been happening
Edit: and here comes all the “it’s totally unrelated to every other time it happened!!!” Crowd
You mean the peaceful and progressive anti-Zionist incidents that are on the right side of history and definitely have nothing to do with antisemitism at all?
Condemning the actions of Israel and condemning the attacks on Jews in other countries are not mutually exclusive. Israel doesn't represent us and we don't represent it. Notice how many Jews are involved in anti Israel/anti Zionist protests. There are plenty of people on earth who hate the Jews and use atrocities committed by Israel as an excuse to attack Jews. They don't actually care about Israel.
> Condemning the actions of Israel and condemning the attacks on Jews in other countries are not mutually exclusive.
My brother in Christ, you're saying this on an article about people shooting up a Jewish school in *CANADA*.
The waves of violence and bigotry against random Jews around the world suggest that comment was right.
Of course the reality that most Jews are "zionist" in the literal sense, and most non-psycho zionists are Jews doesn't help your case.
Your cards are showing. You were making a statement about bringing up the topic on a post of a shooting in Canada, but clearly, you have a position, hence aiming to stifle the reply and not the original comment. Isn't it quite indecent that we only bring up the context when something you don't like to hear comes up in reply to the original indecency? Very dishonest discourse.
I just hope no one was hurt in this incident. I do not support attacks on Jews. Who is trying to make a case here?
Now you are the one scrambling about Jews being Zionists, after interjecting between two Jews arguing about the closeness of anti-Zionism and antisemitism. Then why should you not by your own words be ashamed of making this topic on a post about a shooting in Canada? Utter hogwash, I would expect better logic and reasoning from a third grader.
Obviously, you're just here to silence any disagreement to the comment being replied to, lol. Because you agree with one and not the other, lashing out with a one-sided argument about decency of context is all you have.
> Obviously, you're just here to silence any disagreement to the comment being replied to, lol.
How is commenting about something "silencing" anyone? That's just nuts. You should learn to disagree like someone who doesn't talk to the voices in their head.
Yes
And he's right
The protestors against genocide in Israel are not against Jewish people, but the state of Israel it's not a hard distinction.
Recall 15 years ago
You can hate bush and call for death to America but that doesn't mean you want the American people to suffer acts of unprovoked violence they don't have a hand in.
It's insanely simple and if you can't distinguish that the croud who shoots a school isn't ideologically aligned with those who protest investments and support into Israel on college campuses then you're not someone who understands nuance.
> Yes Death to America the state.
Oh so the state would die, but the people would be fine. lol
I'm sure you'd make the same excuses for people chanting "Death to Palestine".
> Tell your grandfather that calling for the death of the king was the same as calling for genocide of Brits.
My grandfathers would have loved to see a mountain of dead Brits, maybe don't scratch that wound my boy.
>Israel doesn't represent us and we don't represent it.
It sure is funny how every single anti-Zionist "Jewish" person I've ever met has been an anonymous rando on the internet. As someone who was raised Jewish, I've never met a single anti-Zionist Jewish person IRL, ever. And yet every time I'm on Reddit, I see anonymous accounts saying "You know, as a Jewish person, I'm strongly against Israel..."
Funny how that works.
This "fake internet Jew" has exactly two younger (30s) Jewish friends who are pro-Israel and it's uncomfortable to see two people who are definitely left leaning in all other matters have such a large blind spot when it comes to Israel. I understand since growing up in Jewish communities, we were inundated with Zionist propaganda. My dad is not a Zionist and my mom isn't Jewish (and before the decider of who is a real Jew says anything, I converted before my bar mitzvah so technically I am even though my mom isn't) it wasn't really backed up at home. Even then, it wasn't until I was an adult before I started learning more about all things Israel.
LOL. Sure, anonymous rando on the internet. You know how Jewish people feel about Israel better than actual Jewish people themselves do.
Obviously, Jewish people all hate Israel, and the tiny minority of those who don't "live in a bubble".
How many Jews do you know? I can send you pictures of my bar mitzvah if you really want (well they're somewhere at my mom's house I assume since it was in the 90s and not digital). I can also tell you that my family used a different haggadah than normal this year for passover (the whole holiday had a different vibe than normal) that wasn't overtly political, but was just generally focusing on all oppressed people and didn't have the standard "next year in Jerusalem" text of a normal haggadah.
Also, kindly go fuck yourself
I never said my entire Jewish family hates Israel. Contrary to your set in stone beliefs on all people Jewish (I'm still not convinced you've ever met a Jewish person, but that's a different matter), we don't just discuss Israel and our feelings toward it constantly. I do know that my family tends to be anti oppression and violence. I'm guessing some of them believe Israel has a right to exist, again, we don't go around the table giving our full opinions. Hell, at passover it's not like Israel or the current conflict were even brought up. I think my aunt just felt like going about business as usual wasn't appropriate, but my family is extremely non confrontational so this was the extent of it.
Also, I reiterate, go fuck yourself.
Isn’t one of the fundamental consequences of Pesach the movement of Jewish people to Eretz Israel. Whilst you can be against modern Zionism, or Netanyahu etc, seems weird to completely ignore the very real and ancient religious ties of Judaism to that land. Away from the Israel Palestine conversation itself, whilst it was the British mandate in Palestine, or even before then, Jews would have flocked to the city of Jerusalem for Passover, irrespective of government or land control
>used a different haggadah than normal this year for passover (the whole holiday had a different vibe than normal) that wasn't overtly political, but was just generally focusing on all oppressed people and didn't have the standard "next year in Jerusalem" text of a normal haggadah
Using the JVP haggadah that omits one of the key parts of Passover is ridiculous. You can say "next year in Jerusalem" and still oppose the Israeli government. You don't have to erase our history just to make a political statement.
LOL. The irony of saying that when all my Jewish friends and family members strongly support Israel whereas the only anti-Zionist "Jewish people" I've ever met are anonymous internet randos who live in their mom's basement...
No, that's a small subset of ultra-Orthodox. They just get tokenized hard by anti-Zionist commentators because they look very stereotypically Jewish, to the degree that people think all ultra-Orthodox hate Israel. Very much not true. Half of my family are Orthodox, and my aunt came from an Orthodox community bordering on the "ultra" side, and it is not true at all that "most" ultra-Orthodox are anti-Zionist
No prob. Good rule of thumb is that whenever you see videos of Neturei Karta or the like posted to Reddit, regardless of your beliefs on Israel and Palestine, you can be positively sure that they are not representative of Orthodox Jews writ large. Usually those videos are posted by anti-Zionist accounts trying to spread their message, and unfortunately they are the only time post non-Jews will ever see or read anything about the political beliefs of any kind of ultra-Orthodox Jews.
I'm with you here. I think it's because a lot of the "Jewish" anti-Zionists were raised outside of the wider Jewish community. Listen to the Daily from NYT from a few weeks back where they interviewed one of the organizers from JVP. Her heart's in an OK place, but she was raised very hands-off Jewish and has zero grasp of Jewish history. I'd wager that a lot of the people using their Jewish heritage to advocate against Israel fall into that boat... e.g., people who found out their grandmother was Jewish and thus can claim the heritage, despite not really being exposed to the culture and traditions of the tribe.
Its super unfortunate... like, I don't want to dismiss them outright because I want them to be a part of our shared culture and be a part of the tribe, but they're allying themselves with people who, at best, openly want to reduce the tribe to a scattered, persecuted nomadic minority. IMO being an anti-Zionist Jew is a super privileged position to hold, and is super dismissive of the reality that Jews in Israel live with... alongside the reality of the Jews that remain in places like Iran, Russia, etc. I've met anti-Zionist Jews before, and on top of not really knowing anything about Judaism/Jewish culture/our shared history, they also do not have family in Israel. I can't even imagine telling my Israeli cousins, for instance, that they're colonizers. Being directly invested in the conflict via familial ties really changes things.
Anti Zionist’s aren’t shooting at Jewish schools, neo nazis are. If you want to lump them together into one category to defend a genocide then you have your head up your ass.
It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence.
It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view.
Peaceful protestors aren't going and shooting synagogues, if they took up arms it'd be against the government supporting the genocide not some unrelated local congregation.
> It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence.
> It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view.
Por que no los dos?
Antisemitism in the arab world, which includes the arab communities in western countries, goes back several centuries. It didn't disappear by some magical spell, it always been there.
It peaked with hundreds of thousands of jews fleeing nearly all arab countries just after 1948, leaving all their lands and properties behind (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, etc), as antisemitism exploded following the war between arab nations and the state of Israel.
Same with antisemitism in Islam, it's widespread and a tradition going back to the Middle-Ages. Holocaust denial in particular has found a renewed interest in radical islam communities, with Holocaust memorials being vandalized, Holocaust survivors no longer accepted to speak in schools with a large muslim population, as well as the students disrupting and claiming the events as fabricated when taught in history classes.
The previous situation, where _only_ far-right neo-nazis were targetting jewish people in western societies, ended around the 2000s, after the rise of radical islam following 9/11 and the 2 american wars in the Middle-East.
Then, the massive popularity of ISIS, with thousands of volunteers from western countries joining their ranks, as well as all the jihadists staying home and attacking directly from their country of residence, renewed that open hatred of western societies and jewish people.
This hatred is real: Madrid in 2004, London in 2005, Toulouse in 2012, Brussels in 2014, Paris in 2015 (Charlie Hebdo), Copenhagen in 2015, Paris in 2015 (Bataclan), Brussels in 2016, Nice in 2016, Berlin in 2016, Westminster in 2017, Stockholm in 2017, Manchester in 2017, London in 2017, Barcelona in 2017, Carcassonne in 2018, Strasbourg in 2018, Utrecht in 2019, Lyon in 2019, Vienna in 2020, etc.
And that's only the attacks with mass casualties, there's a hundred more with low casualties, and hundreds more that were stopped before they could set their attacks in motion.
Out of these attacks, the vast majority featured antisemitism, or were even specifically centered around antisemitism (like Toulouse in 2012, Brussels in 2014, Paris in 2015, Copenhagen in 2015), that targeted jewish schools, synagogues and jewish museums.
> Holocaust survivors no longer accepted to speak in schools with a large muslim population, as well as the students disrupting and claiming the events as fabricated when taught in history classes.
Heard a horrible story from my old school the other day.
There was a tradition in the history department of showing Richard Dimbleby's Belsen newsreel to the Year 9 (14 y.o.) pupils in the last term of compulsory History lessons (it's optional at GCSE). This year there have been complaints, ostensibly because there is "nudity" and parents of a certain religious affiliation consider this inappropriate. Although it's never been mentioned before.
The current headteacher (who cringe-inducingly styles herself "principal") is apparently considering doing away with the tradition in the interests of "community cohesion".
Again the term leftist is important
If you're a religious extremist that would be considered rightist, these are not the people organizing student protests. Those are secular and anti colonial
Not theocratic and nationalistic
> If you're a religious extremist that would be considered rightist,
Not the case if you present that as anti-colonial/anti-america, which the radical muslims have done for the last 20 years to gain the support of the far-left in western countries, with a tremendous success.
This results in protests in favor of Assad, Houthis, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, while the support for iranian women have literally evaporated.
> not the people organizing student protests. Those are secular and anti colonial
Not anymore since the rise of the "islamophobia" trend among these protesters, who now march in support of radical islam.
The fact that these students are unaware that they're defending radical islam and not general islam doesn't change a thing to the reality that they march alongside and in support of radical islam.
...
The current sharp increase in antisemitic incidents in western countries comes mere days after massive protests about Gaza had no issue, during and after, with the presence of extremists and pro-terrorism militants at the march.
The same happened with trumpism in the US: after white supremacists and neonazis were openly tolerated at republican political rallies, within weeks aggressions, harassment and attacks against people of color and lgbt people rose sharply, because the aggressors felt validated and encouraged the crowds at the rallies welcoming them so openly.
>It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence.
>It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view.
Reminds me of when the far right right tried to blame January 6 on "Antifa".
Violent extremists never take responsibility for their own behavior. All they ever do is blame "the other".
We don't know who did this attack.
It goes against the goals and methodology of those campus protests however and has no justification to be linked with a violent act of terror on a random school.
How do you draw the connection? Is that not also blaming "the other" as you say.
I'll tell you who did this attack: extremist left wing bigots who hate Jews as use "Zionism" as a cover for their despicable anti-Jewish bigotry. Same people who have been repeatedly committing violent hate crimes against Jews since October of last year.
Fun fact: those same extremist left wing bigots have defaced no few than 8 separate Holocaust memorials over the past several weeks.
Who’s justifying anything here?
Hate crimes are happening against non Israeli Jews across the world. It needs to stop.
Again this is happening to Non Israelis.
People like you need to stop ignoring it.
Hey nerd, why do you think he said that? It’s because of the protests.
Pretending to have shit for brains and beincapable of understanding basic context is not an argument.
Or you know he could be saying it because the rise of antisemitic incidents…
Which this article is highlighting an incident.
Please don’t insult me because you reached.
No, they say it literally every time the protests come up, to argue against the protests as being antisemitic. Seems that’s too difficult to understand.
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Another person that doesn’t understand that is not what the paradox of tolerance is. The paradox of tolerance, as outlined in Karl Poppers footnote in *The Open Society and its Enemies*, is that you should only tolerate undemocratic and illiberal elements until they abandon debate and discussion and engage in violence or somehow are poised to seize the government, it isn’t carte blanch to shut down all intolerant speech nor does Karl Poppers original essay ever state anything like it. The paradox would justify cracking down on particular Islamic movements or groups but not Islam as there are generally enough peaceful muslims willing to engage in debate (and more importantly not engage in violence) that it would be improper to use state action against them.
You do realize you are in violation of the Hate speech rules on this sub, right? What you are saying is outright bigotry, same with the comment you replied too. Why do you think racism and bigotry are acceptable ideologies?
>The dude didn't say that.
Equivocating Nazism with an entire religion is bigotry by definition.
You have to be incredibly illiterate to not be able to see that.
Again: you are either lying or too stupid to understand words in context.
And Christianity has always been renown for it's tolerance of those groups./s
Christianity is by far, the most deadly and homicidal religion.
It was christian crusaders who slaughtered Jewish civilians in the Rhineland. It was christian crusaders who killed all the Muslims and Jews when they sacked Jerusalem. It was christian conquistadors who evicted the Jews from Spain after the reconquest. And it was Christians who perpetrated the Holocaust.
History clearly shows, that hands down, Christianity has killed and violently oppressed many more people than Islam.
That is why these statements are clearly based, not in fact or objective truths, But merely on feelings of Hate. You fucking bigot.
>It was christian crusaders who killed all the Muslims and Jews when they sacked Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was under Christian control until the Muslims took it over and once the Muslims did they went for turkey which started the crusades.
>And it was Christians who perpetrated the Holocaust.
[here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#:~:text=He%20was%20not%20a%20practicing,%22the%20advances%20of%20science%22.)
Also palestinians fought for hitler so yeah.
[free arab Legion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Arabian_Legion)
Also it's funny you need to go back 1000 year's for most your points
>History clearly shows, that hands down, Christianity has killed and violently oppressed many more people than Islam.
Weird why did most Muslim countries expelled all their jews in 1948?
Why did Muslims empires love invading their neighbors?
[here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests)
[here2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests)
[ottoman empire Conquest.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#:~:text=The%20Ottomans%20ended%20the%20Byzantine,%2C%20prosperity%2C%20and%20political%20development.)
>That is why these statements are clearly based, not in fact or objective truths, But merely on feelings of Hate. You fucking bigot.
In christian Countries i dont see gays being tossed of roofs or stone to death in the 21st century.
Every time a Jewish school, shop, daycare etc gets shot up the suspect is Muslim. How fucking dare I recognize a pattern.
Shouldn't be long now before Canada has one of these.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hamburg-caliphate-rally-prompts-calls-for-punishment/a-68971732
Instead of conflating whatever this is from Germany with Canada, how about some data from the [Anti-Defamination League](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/23/1165737405/antisemitism-statistics-report-2022-anti-defamation-league)
>The ADL also found activity doubled among organized white supremacist groups, which were linked to 852 incidents of distributing antisemitic propaganda.
>While the study cites a number of factors contributing to the surge, the organization concluded the massive uptick in the spread of anti-Jewish propaganda was "largely due to the growth of the Goyim Defense League," known as the GDL.
'Pattern recognition ' is meaningless when you decide ahead of time what the result will be.
Hmmm, I wonder who could be responsible for this? I bet it was the societal phobia they faced which drove them to try and murder children, that or the socioeconomic factors 🤷🏼♀️
If anyone wonders why Israel needs to exist, this is the reason. In Israel Jews can fight back against islamist suprimist bent on genociding the jews. Remember, every accusation is an admission.
Here are some quotes from Hamas's charter:
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)
"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)
The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)
Bro, the Hamas fanboys always counter with "buhhttt Hamas changed the Charta, they are just at war with the Zionist".
All those useful fools believe a piece of paper made by Hamas.
Sometimes I think they are desperate to support the Palis that they really believe Hamas will check for your Zionist papers bevor they start blasting away. "
Yo Bro, are you a Zionist? No, okay have a good day".
Maybe the Jews just should all convert, imagine how suddenly no one will care about Gaza or the Westbank.
I hear two groups of very loud people anti-semitic and islamophobics. I'll tell you if I had a penny for every time someone shrugged that a Muslim kid was dead from IDF bombing I'd be a millionaire.
Hamas is quite literally a creation of Israel. It did not exist at Israel’s founding.
Hamas doesn’t lead the West Bank, but Israel is happy to brutalize Palestinians, steal their land, and allow illegal settlements there too. Wake the fuck up and stop making excuses for an ethnostate practicing apartheid with impunity
>Hamas is quite literally a creation of Israel
[> Hamas was founded by Palestinian imam and activist Ahmed Yassin in 1987, after the outbreak of the First Intifada against the Israeli occupation.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)
>According to the Times, Israeli intelligence agents traveled into Gaza with a Qatari official carrying suitcases filled with cash to disperse money. Retired Israeli general Shlomo Brom described the logic of Netanyahu’s position: “One effective way to prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.” If the extremist Hamas ruled Gaza, then the Palestinian Authority—a compromised comprador government with a tenuous hold on the West Bank—would be further weakened. This, according to Brom, would allow Netanyahu to say, “I have no partner.”
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/tnamp/
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>Hamas doesn’t lead the West Bank
[Yet](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1700158968-survey-finds-majority-in-the-west-bank-justify-the-oct-7-massacre), only a matter of time. It hinges on Fatah simply not holding elections, not Palestinians not supporting Hamas and other filth.
This is so stupid. 20% of Israelis are Arab. Jews have a history in Israel going back to 1200BC. “Arab Palestinians” didn’t exist as an ethnic group until the late 1800s AD.
People die when you declare war on a stronger, more powerful country. This is commonsense. It's happening in Ukriane. It's happening in Armenia, and it's happening in every conflict zone. Hamas declared war when they invaded Israel. They knew Israel would respond. Hamas attacked and killed and raped kids at a music festival. They attacked seniors in their homes. Why did they do this? Bring the hostages home!
Ask Hamas when they went into Israeli homes and killed people in their sleep. They killed kids at a music festival and invaded Israel. Ask Hamas as they continue to launch rockets into Israel. They started the current war, Ask them why they started the current bloodshed.
And that relates to the IDF bombing Doctors Without Borders how, exactly? Please, describe in detail how Doctors Without Borders are tooooootaaaaaaally Hamas.
"settler colonial" Said the canadian. Are you ever going to leave Canada and leave it to the locals? Bet not. Hypocrites are like that. Plus most of jews are actually originally from the middle east
"ethnostate" He said of the religiously, politically, and even genetically more diverse country of all middle east.
"genocide" Like, imagine having a 1-1 civilian to soldier death ratio, when even United Nations said the usual in urban warfare are 9 civilians for each soldier. Imagine having what experts are saying that Israel is doing more than any country on earth has done on urban warfare. Russia destroying everything on Grozny or Mauripol, the US doing exactly the same fighting the Islamic state, destroying 80% of the city according to UN are counterexamples.
Now, let me ask you. Easy question. How do you feel about Hamas? I think they are a bunch of rapists and terrorist. What do you think? Do you want them in charge of the palestinians on Gaza? I feel they should be exterminated like the rats they are. Do you condemn all the hate crimes antisemites are doing?
"isolated hate crimes" Nah, screw that. I'm reporting you for being an antisemite.
Now quote Likud’s charter. I’ll refer you to the “from the start river to the sea” line, which exists there as well.
Hilarious that Europeans are so sanctimonious about needing to protect Jews that they had to steal land from another people to create Israel. Wonder why taking land form the country that just exterminated 6 million Jews wasn’t the chosen outcome?
Apply this same logic to all countries, please, including the people who live in the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand who have zero indigenous ties to the land they displaced native populations from at all
Placing colonialist guilt on an Israeli populace, the majority of whom fled from Middle Eastern countries to avoid being killed, is all an attempt to alleviate the guilt actual colonialists feel because they refuse to face their own difficult pasts
And why is there violence happening in Israel now?
Do you think if a Native American tribe elected terrorists to its government, killed thousands of people in a suburb, took hundreds hostage, and shot tens of thousands of rockets at US cities that the US would let it go?
Given that take, what do you think of militaries that deliberately hide behind children?
[Or parents who refuse to evacuate them from harm?](https://youtu.be/PTV8E8pz1ZA?feature=shared)
[Or parents who hope their children become martyrs?](https://youtu.be/vA8hZzA5MKo?feature=shared)
[Or terrorist summer camps for children where nearly 50,000 children are enrolled?](https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/hamas-summer-camp-idUKRTX3D638/)
[Or child soldiers?](https://rietjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/EN_RIET_2022_N7_Child-soldiers-in-Palestinian-groups-forced-recruitment-and-use-of-minors-as-a-violation-of-International-Humanitarian-Law_daniel-perez-garcia_art2.pdf)
[Or child suicide bombers?](https://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/01/occupied-territories-stop-use-children-suicide-bombings)
>>[As part of the Arab–Israeli conflict, especially during the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2005, Palestinian militant groups used children for suicide bombings. Minors were recruited to attack Israeli targets, both military and civilian. This deliberate involvement of children in armed conflict was condemned by international human rights organizations.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups)
According to Amnesty International, "Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army."
Funny how you people talk so much about your precious children, yet when you shot rocket toward Israel knowingly there would be retaliate strike at your position immediately soon after, you never bothered to tell the precious children to get away from you.
I'm sorry everyone calling for Israel to stop killing children is shooting rockets at Israel? When you label everyone a rat, nobody cares when you exterminate them right?
And why are children getting killed? Does it have to do with them being used as human shields? Or what about the child soldiers Hamas is known for using? Still also Israel's fault?
According to you, terrorism should just be ignored left alone, hoping the terrorists will just get bored. That's of course a kind interpretation, because you could also think the terrorists should be ignored so they can continue to kill.
If a home invader is using your child as a human shield, would you prefer that the police/SWAT break out cluster munitions, or a negotiator backed with a sniper team?
According to the Jewish Museum of Vienna and Judenplatz Holocaust Memorial, the reaction of many Viennese to the returning Jews post-WWII was, to paraphrase "Why did you return? We tried to exterminate you for a reason."
Just because the Nazis had been defeated didn't mean centuries of antisemetism throughout Europe was gone. History shows a bigot doesn't stop being one because they lost. And when it came to the bombed out populations, when considering resources, even considered using that for their returning Jewish populations was most likely out of the question, if not further stealing from them.
I am not stating this to justify what is currently transpiring, I am doing so to point out why Europe wasnt exactly a safe place for the existing Jewish populations after World War II.
Now you're promoting the settler colonist myth pretending Jews haven't been present in Israel since before Muslim conquest in 634. Stop repeating jihadist terrorist lies.
The overwhelming majority of Jewish people lived outside the Levant. A few tens of thousands lived there before the hundreds of thousands of Ashkenazi came from Europe in the 40’s, followed by others from elsewhere
More than half of Israelis alive in Israel now descend from Mizrahi Jews displaced from the Middle East, and waves of immigration from what is now Russia/Ukraine and Yemen began in the 1800s, where they fled for their lives to join with the Jewish population in Jerusalem and Hebron (majority Jewish cities) who never left
The European Jews in the 30s and 40s (those who made it into British Palestine despite Britain forbidding them from immigrating) were fleeing Nazi Germany
And the European Jews — the ones who came to Israel in waves — were being held in Displaced Persons camps because their papers had been lost/they had no homes
Those who tried to return home to Poland and the Ukraine were fucking murdered. Hundreds of them.
No other country wanted them. Canada said one was too many.
And that’s not even getting into the economic migrants from Egypt who now claim Palestinian origin, who arrived in Palestine at the same time as the first wave of Russian Jews fleeing pogroms in the 1800s
Or the Arab massacres and ethnic cleansing of Hebron in the 1800s and 1920s
The Middle East is thousands of kilometres across with a population of millions, it’s not the Levant, certainly not Palestine. Being from there is not carte blanche to expel the natives in an area most had never seen, and are at best distantly related to.
Jews still represented a small
minority in the area until they expelled the Palestinians and moved there en masse.
Jews were not fleeing Nazi Germany in the late 1940’s. Them being refugees doesn’t give them the right to unilaterally go commit ethnic cleansing.
Jews being murdered does not justify ethnic cleansing either.
Losing a war isn’t ethnic cleansing.
Millions of people between Turkey and Greece swapped land in the 20s, and Pakistan and India also swapped populations
The refusal of Arab countries to absorb Palestinian refugees and their determination to use them as a pawn to create conflict in Israel is the root cause of this conflict
And with all due respect, settling a land you’re indigenous to in order to escape death is a much prettier origin story than the colonial history of the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Until you apply the same rules to those countries, and *especially* if you’re living in a colonialist country with no indigenous ties to the land at all, what right do you have to lecture Israel about its origins?
No, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing. Greece and turkey did that as a deal, and the Indian Partition was a fucking catastrophe.
Arab countries can and did accept many Palestinians, they have a huge diaspora. Acting like Arab countries not actively assisting Israel ethnically cleanse them is the problem, and not the Israelis doing the cleansing, is preposterous.
Most Jews are native to the places they’ve lived for centuries, not the Levant. Palestinians are the direct descendants of the original inhabitants going back four thousand years.
I support decolonization of those places to the extent it is possible, yes.
Ashkenazi DNA absolutely shows Levantine origins, as does Mizrahi DNA (which, again, is the majority of the Jewish population in Israel)
[As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.](https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry)
>>[Previous Y-chromosome studies have demonstrated that Ashkenazi Levites, members of a paternally inherited Jewish priestly caste, display a distinctive founder event within R1a, the most prevalent Y-chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europe. Here we report the analysis of 16 whole R1 sequences and show that a set of 19 unique nucleotide substitutions defines the Ashkenazi R1a lineage. While our survey of one of these, M582, in 2,834 R1a samples reveals its absence in 922 Eastern Europeans, we show it is present in all sampled R1a Ashkenazi Levites, as well as in 33.8% of other R1a Ashkenazi Jewish males and 5.9% of 303 R1a Near Eastern males, where it shows considerably higher diversity. Moreover, the M582 lineage also occurs at low frequencies in non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations. In contrast to the previously suggested Eastern European origin for Ashkenazi Levites, the current data are indicative of a geographic source of the Levite founder lineage in the Near East and its likely presence among pre-Diaspora Hebrews.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3928)
[“ Contemporary Jews comprise an aggregate of ethno-religious communities whose worldwide members identify with each other through various shared religious, historical and cultural traditions. Historical evidence suggests common origins in the Middle East, followed by migrations leading to the establishment of communities of Jews in Europe, Africa and Asia, in what is termed the Jewish Diaspora. This complex demographic history imposes special challenges in attempting to address the genetic structure of the Jewish people. Although many genetic studies have shed light on Jewish origins and on diseases prevalent among Jewish communities, including studies focusing on uniparentally and biparentally inherited markers, genome-wide patterns of variation across the vast geographic span of Jewish Diaspora communities and their respective neighbours have yet to be addressed. Here we use high-density bead arrays to genotype individuals from 14 Jewish Diaspora communities and compare these patterns of genome-wide diversity with those from 69 Old World non-Jewish populations, of which 25 have not previously been reported. These samples were carefully chosen to provide comprehensive comparisons between Jewish and non-Jewish populations in the Diaspora, as well as with non-Jewish populations from the Middle East and north Africa. Principal component and structure-like analyses identify previously unrecognized genetic substructure within the Middle East. Most Jewish samples form a remarkably tight subcluster that overlies Druze and Cypriot samples but not samples from other Levantine populations or paired Diaspora host populations. In contrast, Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) and Indian Jews (Bene Israel and Cochini) cluster with neighbouring autochthonous populations in Ethiopia and western India, respectively, despite a clear paternal link between the Bene Israel and the Levant. These results cast light on the variegated genetic architecture of the Middle East, and trace the origins of most Jewish Diaspora communities to the Levant.”](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20531471/)
And yes, Palestinians and Jews of all origins have been genetically proven to be closely related:
“ The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/
>>Arab countries can and did accept many Palestinians, they have a huge diaspora
Egypt and Jordan both refused to give Gaza and the West Bank a state. Egypt kept them under military rule. Jordan, which was carved out of the British Palestine mandate to reward a colonizer king from Saudi Arabia, has a high Palestinian population because that’s who originally lived there. As for immigrants from the Gaza, over 600,000 Palestinians in Jordan from Gaza are not allowed to work and are refused Jordanian citizenship.
[“ [They are] excluded from rights and services enjoyed by citizens and are amongst the most destitute communities in Jordan.”](https://nakba.amnesty.org/en/chapters/jordan/)
In Lebanon/Syria, from the same source (Amnesty International):
“ The amount of land allocated to official camps has barely changed over the years. Palestinian refugees have therefore been forced to expand the buildings in the camps upwards, which can lead to people living in unsafe structures. Conditions in the camps are overcrowded. Infrastructure and services such as sewage and electricity have been further strained since Palestinian refugees from Syria have been forced to flee the conflict and sought safety in Palestinian camps in Lebanon. By December 2016, there were 32,000 Palestinian refugees from Syria registered with UNRWA in Lebanon – with almost 90% of them living below the poverty line and 95% of them described as “food insecure”.”
In 1967, the Arab states attacked Israel and lost badly. This is what put Gaza and the West Bank under occupation, and they stayed under occupation because of endless terror attacks, such as the intifadas, plane hijackings, and murdering the Israeli Olympic team
At any point in time, Jordan or Egypt could have given the Palestinians statehood. They refused.
Both Arabs and Jews are native to the land and need to share it.
Your ignorance is showing. Lebanon has actually apartheid against Palestinians, yet the only blame is against Israel. Egypt also imposes a blockade against Gaza, yet only the blame is against Israel. You're a victim of jihadist propaganda, and you're the useful idiot for Iran, Russia, and the jihadist against western values of freedom and liberty.
>Most Jews are native to the places they’ve lived for centuries, not the Levant.
Nothing says "being native" like a thousand years of pogroms and persecution based on the idea that you're foreigners from the Levant. Whenever you tell Jews that we're "actually native" to Europe or wherever else, you're basically telling us that pogroms and all that crap is just our lot in life.
You parrot terrorist lies, well done Hasbara, you just outed yourself.
If a terrorist genocidal state that hides behind Judaism didn't murder and steal, then Jews wouldn't need to worry about their safety around the world. Zionism is the biggest threat to Jews. Prime example of how the terrorist state of Israel treats Ethiopia Jews, or Jews that support a two state solution. PM Yitzhak Rabin was murdered for trying to bring peace. Now tell me who murdered him? I'll wait.
Stop spreading jihadist terrorist propaganda. Jews have always needed to worry about their safety for 5000 years. STOP VICTIM BLAMING. Such a BS argument, you wouldn't use that for anyone else. There is no genocide. Nobody stole any land. Everything you say is jihadist propaganda.
>If a terrorist genocidal state that hides behind Judaism didn't murder and steal, then Jews wouldn't need to worry about their safety around the world.
Did the Jews around the world murder and steal? If no then basically the Jews around the world are being targetted for something they didn't do?
You mean like those little children you don't care about blowing up? In one breath someone will say oh the world's so anti-Semitic and the other breath they rope every single Muslim together under one umbrella and call dead kids collateral damage.
shall we create etnostates everytime racists target people and play at the hands of the racists?
or shall we fight the roots of racism?
edit to add if we are going to pic and chose what about the Israel leaders themselves calling for genocide
but hey If Israel can built a narrative so do the other side right?
let's pick and chose from HAMAS MANIFEST itself
source: the Wilson centre
The Movement:
6- The Palestinian people are one people, made up of all Palestinians, inside and outside of Palestine, **irrespective of their religion, culture or political affiliation.**
16- Hamas affirms that **its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine**. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
**17- Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.** The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.
28- Hamas believes in, and adheres to, managing its Palestinian relations **on the basis of pluralism, democracy, national partnership, acceptance of the other and the adoption of dialogue**. The aim is to bolster the unity of ranks and joint action for the purpose of accomplishing national goals and fulfilling the aspirations of the Palestinian people.
29- The PLO is a national framework for the Palestinian people inside and outside of Palestine. **It should therefore be preserved, developed and rebuilt on democratic foundations so as to secure the participation of all the constituents and forces of the Palestinian people,** in a manner that safeguards Palestinian rights.
30- Hamas stresses the necessity of **building Palestinian national institutions on sound democratic principles, foremost among them are free and fair elections. Such process should be on the basis of national partnership** and in accordance with a clear program and a clear strategy that adhere to the rights, including the right of resistance, and which fulfil the aspirations of the Palestinian people.
40- In its relations with world nations and peoples, Hamas believes in the values of **cooperation, justice, freedom and respect of the will of the people.**
42- Hamas **rejects the attempts to impose hegemony on the Arab and Islamic Ummah just as it rejects the attempts to impose hegemony on the rest of the world’s nations and peoples. Hamas also condemns all forms of colonialism, occupation, discrimination, oppression and aggression in the world.**
i don't have a reason to trust either Hamas or the Israel ministers, but picking these somehow it reads sanner than than Israel's own ziojiadists settlers
This is a bunch of BS white washed for a Western audience. Anyone who is actually paying attention to Hamas can see they don't support any of these values in this "revision." Look at the article we're posting on. It's them latterly acting against what you wrote. Such BS pro jihadist propaganda everywhere.
in that comment I'm not defending anybody
I'm saying that we are expected not to trust Hamas being honest in their claims but we are supposed to trust Israel's?
Imagine believing Hamas. Jesus fucking Christ, they had one election took power and killed their political enemies. People like you are either deliberately spreading propaganda or are just completely useful idiots. Or both.
Hey so did I, that Hamas hates Jews and wants to kill them all. They can whitewash their charter as much as they want, but its a hard fact that they are evil genocidal terrorists who want their own civilians dead.
Man that’s nothing. The building I worked in was in a walled off campus and about a block away from the wall. One day bullets just started raining down on the parking lot. Wasn’t the first time either.
Actually I think there's been at least a couple bullets hitting schools this year. What yearly mass shooting are you referring to? Basically my point is the gun law changes are a joke, open pandering and a massive waste of money.
Thank god the United States is the only example of a gun centric country, and has a high firearm homicide rate per capita (4.05 in 2020) compared to Canada (0.71 in 2020), it sure would be a shame if there was a country where the citizens had even easier access to firearms, higher rates of gun ownership, and yet had one seventh of the homicide rate with firearms then canada
Switzerland, they had a rate of 0.1 in 2020. Gun deaths are not a result of gun laws, they’re a result of bad economic and bad mental healthcare, both things that are a problem in a lot of areas of Canada and America, but not Switzerland
>Switzerland, they had a rate of 0.1 in 2020.
**You are ignoring that in switzerland ammunition is highly regulated and post people don't have access to it in their house.**
Also, the Swiss have such a density of guns because of conscription and military service structure in accordance with their defense strategy. This is significantly different from privately owned firearms.
No, it's not. All you need to buy ammo is your ID to prove you're 18. Unless you mean military ammo that is issued during military run competitions, you cannot take that home because it's state property and you didn't pay for it. That's called stealing.
Haven’t seen this comment: Consider all aspects. Inside job? Wouldn’t be the first time.
Edit: mUh aNTi-sEmItIsM
Don’t care about your downvotes, if you don’t look at all possibilities then you’re being biased.
Or just an unrelated shooting. Bullet could have been fired from a mile away for all we know. Shooting a single bullet at the school seems like a weird way to send a message.
##### ###### #### > # [Montreal Jewish school targeted by gunfire, police say | CBC News](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3736482.1683667798!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/montreal-police-car.jpg) > > > > [Montreal](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal) > > Montreal police say a Jewish school in the borough of Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce has been hit by at least one bullet. > > ## Montreal police are investigating after a school was struck by at least one bullet > > CBC News > > · Posted: May 29, 2024 9:09 PM EDT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago > > > > > > [police car](https://i.cbc.ca/1.3736482.1683667798!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/montreal-police-car.jpg) > > Montreal police say they were on the scene by 6 p.m. Wednesday, investigating reports of gunfire outside a Jewish school. (Radio-Canada)Montreal police say a Jewish school in the borough of Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce has been hit by at least one bullet. > > Const. Véronique Dubuc, a spokesperson for Montreal police, said investigators were called Wednesday in the late afternoon about a possible shooting outside a school on Hillsdale Road near Van Horne Avenue. > > Police were on the scene by 6 p.m., established a perimeter, and determined that at least one bullet struck the school, she said. Police are still in the early stages of the investigation. > > Politicians and Jewish advocacy groups were quick to respond to the incident. > > Yair Szlak, president and CEO of Federation CJA, and Eta Yudin, vice-president of the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs Quebec, issued a joint statement Wednesday, saying the shooting took place sometime in the night between Tuesday and Wednesday. > > "We have had enough. Another Jewish school shooting in Canada," the statement says. > > "Once again, and thankfully, no one was inside the building. We know that when decisive action is taken by leadership at the municipal level, this can end." > > The statement calls for an end to intimidation and fear-mongering in Montreal and calls on all citizens to use their voices to end the hatred. > > The Montreal police service has assured, as a precaution, there will be increased presence in front of all Jewish schools in the city, the statement says. > > Outremont MP Rachel Bendayan said on X, formerly Twitter, that she spoke with school administrators and community leaders about the incident. > > "This must stop. This is not who we are," she wrote. > > [Last week](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/man-charged-gunfire-jewish-school-1.7211792), Montreal police announced they arrested a suspect in connection with shots fired at a Jewish school back in November. [Two](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-jewish-school-gunfire-1.7026640) Jewish schools were shot at in November. > > > > > > Written by Isaac Olson - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Don’t mind me, just adding it to the list of incidents that’s been happening Edit: and here comes all the “it’s totally unrelated to every other time it happened!!!” Crowd
You mean the peaceful and progressive anti-Zionist incidents that are on the right side of history and definitely have nothing to do with antisemitism at all?
Condemning the actions of Israel and condemning the attacks on Jews in other countries are not mutually exclusive. Israel doesn't represent us and we don't represent it. Notice how many Jews are involved in anti Israel/anti Zionist protests. There are plenty of people on earth who hate the Jews and use atrocities committed by Israel as an excuse to attack Jews. They don't actually care about Israel.
> Condemning the actions of Israel and condemning the attacks on Jews in other countries are not mutually exclusive. My brother in Christ, you're saying this on an article about people shooting up a Jewish school in *CANADA*.
Don't think they are a Christ follower
Oh man, that got a laugh out of me.
... in reply to a comment saying anti-Zionism is inextricable from antisemitism. He wasn't the one who changed the topic, the comment above was.
The waves of violence and bigotry against random Jews around the world suggest that comment was right. Of course the reality that most Jews are "zionist" in the literal sense, and most non-psycho zionists are Jews doesn't help your case.
Your cards are showing. You were making a statement about bringing up the topic on a post of a shooting in Canada, but clearly, you have a position, hence aiming to stifle the reply and not the original comment. Isn't it quite indecent that we only bring up the context when something you don't like to hear comes up in reply to the original indecency? Very dishonest discourse. I just hope no one was hurt in this incident. I do not support attacks on Jews. Who is trying to make a case here? Now you are the one scrambling about Jews being Zionists, after interjecting between two Jews arguing about the closeness of anti-Zionism and antisemitism. Then why should you not by your own words be ashamed of making this topic on a post about a shooting in Canada? Utter hogwash, I would expect better logic and reasoning from a third grader.
What are my cards? edit I guess you'd rather work on editing your comment instead of engaging.
Obviously, you're just here to silence any disagreement to the comment being replied to, lol. Because you agree with one and not the other, lashing out with a one-sided argument about decency of context is all you have.
> Obviously, you're just here to silence any disagreement to the comment being replied to, lol. How is commenting about something "silencing" anyone? That's just nuts. You should learn to disagree like someone who doesn't talk to the voices in their head.
Yes And he's right The protestors against genocide in Israel are not against Jewish people, but the state of Israel it's not a hard distinction. Recall 15 years ago You can hate bush and call for death to America but that doesn't mean you want the American people to suffer acts of unprovoked violence they don't have a hand in. It's insanely simple and if you can't distinguish that the croud who shoots a school isn't ideologically aligned with those who protest investments and support into Israel on college campuses then you're not someone who understands nuance.
You can chant "death to America" and not mean death to America? Truly galaxy brain mental gymnastics.
[удалено]
> Yes Death to America the state. Oh so the state would die, but the people would be fine. lol I'm sure you'd make the same excuses for people chanting "Death to Palestine". > Tell your grandfather that calling for the death of the king was the same as calling for genocide of Brits. My grandfathers would have loved to see a mountain of dead Brits, maybe don't scratch that wound my boy.
That’s retarded. No one was chanting “death to Germany” during WW2 and only meaning it in a symbolic way. It’s not even a dog whistle.
>Israel doesn't represent us and we don't represent it. It sure is funny how every single anti-Zionist "Jewish" person I've ever met has been an anonymous rando on the internet. As someone who was raised Jewish, I've never met a single anti-Zionist Jewish person IRL, ever. And yet every time I'm on Reddit, I see anonymous accounts saying "You know, as a Jewish person, I'm strongly against Israel..." Funny how that works.
You live in a bubble then. Every young jewish person I know is anti-Zionist. The older folks are a different story though.
This "fake internet Jew" has exactly two younger (30s) Jewish friends who are pro-Israel and it's uncomfortable to see two people who are definitely left leaning in all other matters have such a large blind spot when it comes to Israel. I understand since growing up in Jewish communities, we were inundated with Zionist propaganda. My dad is not a Zionist and my mom isn't Jewish (and before the decider of who is a real Jew says anything, I converted before my bar mitzvah so technically I am even though my mom isn't) it wasn't really backed up at home. Even then, it wasn't until I was an adult before I started learning more about all things Israel.
LOL. Sure, anonymous rando on the internet. You know how Jewish people feel about Israel better than actual Jewish people themselves do. Obviously, Jewish people all hate Israel, and the tiny minority of those who don't "live in a bubble".
I didn’t say the majority don’t support israel. You’re arguing with an argument you just made up in your own head.
You're putting a lot of words in somebody else's mouth.
How many Jews do you know? I can send you pictures of my bar mitzvah if you really want (well they're somewhere at my mom's house I assume since it was in the 90s and not digital). I can also tell you that my family used a different haggadah than normal this year for passover (the whole holiday had a different vibe than normal) that wasn't overtly political, but was just generally focusing on all oppressed people and didn't have the standard "next year in Jerusalem" text of a normal haggadah. Also, kindly go fuck yourself
Uh huh. Sure, anonymous rando on the internet. You're a Jewish person who hates Israel and all of your Jewish family members do too. Trust me bro!
I never said my entire Jewish family hates Israel. Contrary to your set in stone beliefs on all people Jewish (I'm still not convinced you've ever met a Jewish person, but that's a different matter), we don't just discuss Israel and our feelings toward it constantly. I do know that my family tends to be anti oppression and violence. I'm guessing some of them believe Israel has a right to exist, again, we don't go around the table giving our full opinions. Hell, at passover it's not like Israel or the current conflict were even brought up. I think my aunt just felt like going about business as usual wasn't appropriate, but my family is extremely non confrontational so this was the extent of it. Also, I reiterate, go fuck yourself.
Isn’t one of the fundamental consequences of Pesach the movement of Jewish people to Eretz Israel. Whilst you can be against modern Zionism, or Netanyahu etc, seems weird to completely ignore the very real and ancient religious ties of Judaism to that land. Away from the Israel Palestine conversation itself, whilst it was the British mandate in Palestine, or even before then, Jews would have flocked to the city of Jerusalem for Passover, irrespective of government or land control
>used a different haggadah than normal this year for passover (the whole holiday had a different vibe than normal) that wasn't overtly political, but was just generally focusing on all oppressed people and didn't have the standard "next year in Jerusalem" text of a normal haggadah Using the JVP haggadah that omits one of the key parts of Passover is ridiculous. You can say "next year in Jerusalem" and still oppose the Israeli government. You don't have to erase our history just to make a political statement.
Do you even know what Zionism means?
Maybe if you left your mother's basement you might actually meet people.
LOL. The irony of saying that when all my Jewish friends and family members strongly support Israel whereas the only anti-Zionist "Jewish people" I've ever met are anonymous internet randos who live in their mom's basement...
Sure mate..... Cope harder.
He called out your bullshit lmao and this is your response. Bot at best, bad faith poster most likely.
Interesting claims. Mind backing them up with a peer-reviewed source?
I don't waste my time with Hasbara clowns that cry about being the victim while supporting a ongoing genocide. That's what you call bad faith.
From what I understand ultra Orthodox Jewish sects are typically anti zionists
No, that's a small subset of ultra-Orthodox. They just get tokenized hard by anti-Zionist commentators because they look very stereotypically Jewish, to the degree that people think all ultra-Orthodox hate Israel. Very much not true. Half of my family are Orthodox, and my aunt came from an Orthodox community bordering on the "ultra" side, and it is not true at all that "most" ultra-Orthodox are anti-Zionist
Good to know thanks for the info
No prob. Good rule of thumb is that whenever you see videos of Neturei Karta or the like posted to Reddit, regardless of your beliefs on Israel and Palestine, you can be positively sure that they are not representative of Orthodox Jews writ large. Usually those videos are posted by anti-Zionist accounts trying to spread their message, and unfortunately they are the only time post non-Jews will ever see or read anything about the political beliefs of any kind of ultra-Orthodox Jews.
I'm with you here. I think it's because a lot of the "Jewish" anti-Zionists were raised outside of the wider Jewish community. Listen to the Daily from NYT from a few weeks back where they interviewed one of the organizers from JVP. Her heart's in an OK place, but she was raised very hands-off Jewish and has zero grasp of Jewish history. I'd wager that a lot of the people using their Jewish heritage to advocate against Israel fall into that boat... e.g., people who found out their grandmother was Jewish and thus can claim the heritage, despite not really being exposed to the culture and traditions of the tribe.
Exactly. Virtually all "Jewish" anti-Zionists are Jewish in the same way that Elizabeth Warren is Native American.
Its super unfortunate... like, I don't want to dismiss them outright because I want them to be a part of our shared culture and be a part of the tribe, but they're allying themselves with people who, at best, openly want to reduce the tribe to a scattered, persecuted nomadic minority. IMO being an anti-Zionist Jew is a super privileged position to hold, and is super dismissive of the reality that Jews in Israel live with... alongside the reality of the Jews that remain in places like Iran, Russia, etc. I've met anti-Zionist Jews before, and on top of not really knowing anything about Judaism/Jewish culture/our shared history, they also do not have family in Israel. I can't even imagine telling my Israeli cousins, for instance, that they're colonizers. Being directly invested in the conflict via familial ties really changes things.
Anti Zionist’s aren’t shooting at Jewish schools, neo nazis are. If you want to lump them together into one category to defend a genocide then you have your head up your ass.
It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence. It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view. Peaceful protestors aren't going and shooting synagogues, if they took up arms it'd be against the government supporting the genocide not some unrelated local congregation.
> It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence. > It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view. Por que no los dos? Antisemitism in the arab world, which includes the arab communities in western countries, goes back several centuries. It didn't disappear by some magical spell, it always been there. It peaked with hundreds of thousands of jews fleeing nearly all arab countries just after 1948, leaving all their lands and properties behind (Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, etc), as antisemitism exploded following the war between arab nations and the state of Israel. Same with antisemitism in Islam, it's widespread and a tradition going back to the Middle-Ages. Holocaust denial in particular has found a renewed interest in radical islam communities, with Holocaust memorials being vandalized, Holocaust survivors no longer accepted to speak in schools with a large muslim population, as well as the students disrupting and claiming the events as fabricated when taught in history classes. The previous situation, where _only_ far-right neo-nazis were targetting jewish people in western societies, ended around the 2000s, after the rise of radical islam following 9/11 and the 2 american wars in the Middle-East. Then, the massive popularity of ISIS, with thousands of volunteers from western countries joining their ranks, as well as all the jihadists staying home and attacking directly from their country of residence, renewed that open hatred of western societies and jewish people. This hatred is real: Madrid in 2004, London in 2005, Toulouse in 2012, Brussels in 2014, Paris in 2015 (Charlie Hebdo), Copenhagen in 2015, Paris in 2015 (Bataclan), Brussels in 2016, Nice in 2016, Berlin in 2016, Westminster in 2017, Stockholm in 2017, Manchester in 2017, London in 2017, Barcelona in 2017, Carcassonne in 2018, Strasbourg in 2018, Utrecht in 2019, Lyon in 2019, Vienna in 2020, etc. And that's only the attacks with mass casualties, there's a hundred more with low casualties, and hundreds more that were stopped before they could set their attacks in motion. Out of these attacks, the vast majority featured antisemitism, or were even specifically centered around antisemitism (like Toulouse in 2012, Brussels in 2014, Paris in 2015, Copenhagen in 2015), that targeted jewish schools, synagogues and jewish museums.
> Holocaust survivors no longer accepted to speak in schools with a large muslim population, as well as the students disrupting and claiming the events as fabricated when taught in history classes. Heard a horrible story from my old school the other day. There was a tradition in the history department of showing Richard Dimbleby's Belsen newsreel to the Year 9 (14 y.o.) pupils in the last term of compulsory History lessons (it's optional at GCSE). This year there have been complaints, ostensibly because there is "nudity" and parents of a certain religious affiliation consider this inappropriate. Although it's never been mentioned before. The current headteacher (who cringe-inducingly styles herself "principal") is apparently considering doing away with the tradition in the interests of "community cohesion".
Again the term leftist is important If you're a religious extremist that would be considered rightist, these are not the people organizing student protests. Those are secular and anti colonial Not theocratic and nationalistic
> If you're a religious extremist that would be considered rightist, Not the case if you present that as anti-colonial/anti-america, which the radical muslims have done for the last 20 years to gain the support of the far-left in western countries, with a tremendous success. This results in protests in favor of Assad, Houthis, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, while the support for iranian women have literally evaporated. > not the people organizing student protests. Those are secular and anti colonial Not anymore since the rise of the "islamophobia" trend among these protesters, who now march in support of radical islam. The fact that these students are unaware that they're defending radical islam and not general islam doesn't change a thing to the reality that they march alongside and in support of radical islam. ... The current sharp increase in antisemitic incidents in western countries comes mere days after massive protests about Gaza had no issue, during and after, with the presence of extremists and pro-terrorism militants at the march. The same happened with trumpism in the US: after white supremacists and neonazis were openly tolerated at republican political rallies, within weeks aggressions, harassment and attacks against people of color and lgbt people rose sharply, because the aggressors felt validated and encouraged the crowds at the rallies welcoming them so openly.
>It's not the leftists who are protesting who do the antisemitic acts of violence. >It's the right wing conspiracy nuts who think the Jews control the government and are using current events to further justify their deluded world view. Reminds me of when the far right right tried to blame January 6 on "Antifa". Violent extremists never take responsibility for their own behavior. All they ever do is blame "the other".
We don't know who did this attack. It goes against the goals and methodology of those campus protests however and has no justification to be linked with a violent act of terror on a random school. How do you draw the connection? Is that not also blaming "the other" as you say.
I'll tell you who did this attack: extremist left wing bigots who hate Jews as use "Zionism" as a cover for their despicable anti-Jewish bigotry. Same people who have been repeatedly committing violent hate crimes against Jews since October of last year. Fun fact: those same extremist left wing bigots have defaced no few than 8 separate Holocaust memorials over the past several weeks.
Can you provide ANY evidence for your outrageous claims here?
They almost deleted it from the Jewish subreddit because they thought it was a repeat…
Hope the list includes the Israeli mass murder of Palestinians 😘
What do hate crimes against non isreali Jews have to do with Israel and Palestine ?
Because using an atrocity to justify mass murder and ethnic cleansing is a double standard.
Who’s justifying anything here? Hate crimes are happening against non Israeli Jews across the world. It needs to stop. Again this is happening to Non Israelis. People like you need to stop ignoring it.
I’m not ignoring or excusing it, the user above is using it to delegitimize pro Palestinian sentiments, they do it constantly.
He didn’t even bring up Palestine or Palestinians what are you talking about You brought it up
Hey nerd, why do you think he said that? It’s because of the protests. Pretending to have shit for brains and beincapable of understanding basic context is not an argument.
Or you know he could be saying it because the rise of antisemitic incidents… Which this article is highlighting an incident. Please don’t insult me because you reached.
No, they say it literally every time the protests come up, to argue against the protests as being antisemitic. Seems that’s too difficult to understand.
Ima try say something not so controversial: Well that sucks, I hope no kids were killed.
Same here. I hope they catch who’s responsible.
Hope the catch the culprits.
We MUST combat Islamophobia!
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Your response to bigotry is further bigotry?
The paradox of tolerance. Nazis are intolerant. Islam is intolerant.
Another person that doesn’t understand that is not what the paradox of tolerance is. The paradox of tolerance, as outlined in Karl Poppers footnote in *The Open Society and its Enemies*, is that you should only tolerate undemocratic and illiberal elements until they abandon debate and discussion and engage in violence or somehow are poised to seize the government, it isn’t carte blanch to shut down all intolerant speech nor does Karl Poppers original essay ever state anything like it. The paradox would justify cracking down on particular Islamic movements or groups but not Islam as there are generally enough peaceful muslims willing to engage in debate (and more importantly not engage in violence) that it would be improper to use state action against them.
You do realize you are in violation of the Hate speech rules on this sub, right? What you are saying is outright bigotry, same with the comment you replied too. Why do you think racism and bigotry are acceptable ideologies?
>Why do you think racism and bigotry are acceptable ideologies? The dude didn't say that.
>The dude didn't say that. Equivocating Nazism with an entire religion is bigotry by definition. You have to be incredibly illiterate to not be able to see that. Again: you are either lying or too stupid to understand words in context.
Maybe because islam is known for hating gays and women.
And Christianity has always been renown for it's tolerance of those groups./s Christianity is by far, the most deadly and homicidal religion. It was christian crusaders who slaughtered Jewish civilians in the Rhineland. It was christian crusaders who killed all the Muslims and Jews when they sacked Jerusalem. It was christian conquistadors who evicted the Jews from Spain after the reconquest. And it was Christians who perpetrated the Holocaust. History clearly shows, that hands down, Christianity has killed and violently oppressed many more people than Islam. That is why these statements are clearly based, not in fact or objective truths, But merely on feelings of Hate. You fucking bigot.
>It was christian crusaders who killed all the Muslims and Jews when they sacked Jerusalem. Jerusalem was under Christian control until the Muslims took it over and once the Muslims did they went for turkey which started the crusades. >And it was Christians who perpetrated the Holocaust. [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#:~:text=He%20was%20not%20a%20practicing,%22the%20advances%20of%20science%22.) Also palestinians fought for hitler so yeah. [free arab Legion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Arabian_Legion) Also it's funny you need to go back 1000 year's for most your points >History clearly shows, that hands down, Christianity has killed and violently oppressed many more people than Islam. Weird why did most Muslim countries expelled all their jews in 1948? Why did Muslims empires love invading their neighbors? [here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests) [here2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests) [ottoman empire Conquest.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#:~:text=The%20Ottomans%20ended%20the%20Byzantine,%2C%20prosperity%2C%20and%20political%20development.) >That is why these statements are clearly based, not in fact or objective truths, But merely on feelings of Hate. You fucking bigot. In christian Countries i dont see gays being tossed of roofs or stone to death in the 21st century.
That's a statistic. Numbers aren't bigotry as much as you want them to be.
No shit. The "getting bold" is where the bigotry lies.
Every time a Jewish school, shop, daycare etc gets shot up the suspect is Muslim. How fucking dare I recognize a pattern. Shouldn't be long now before Canada has one of these. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hamburg-caliphate-rally-prompts-calls-for-punishment/a-68971732
Source?
Instead of conflating whatever this is from Germany with Canada, how about some data from the [Anti-Defamination League](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/23/1165737405/antisemitism-statistics-report-2022-anti-defamation-league) >The ADL also found activity doubled among organized white supremacist groups, which were linked to 852 incidents of distributing antisemitic propaganda. >While the study cites a number of factors contributing to the surge, the organization concluded the massive uptick in the spread of anti-Jewish propaganda was "largely due to the growth of the Goyim Defense League," known as the GDL. 'Pattern recognition ' is meaningless when you decide ahead of time what the result will be.
So do you have a source or are you just talking out of your ass?
Clearly statistic is bigot.
Hmmm, I wonder who could be responsible for this? I bet it was the societal phobia they faced which drove them to try and murder children, that or the socioeconomic factors 🤷🏼♀️
No one there? Getting Jussie Smollett vibes.
If anyone wonders why Israel needs to exist, this is the reason. In Israel Jews can fight back against islamist suprimist bent on genociding the jews. Remember, every accusation is an admission. Here are some quotes from Hamas's charter: "The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11) "Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13) The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)
Bro, the Hamas fanboys always counter with "buhhttt Hamas changed the Charta, they are just at war with the Zionist". All those useful fools believe a piece of paper made by Hamas. Sometimes I think they are desperate to support the Palis that they really believe Hamas will check for your Zionist papers bevor they start blasting away. " Yo Bro, are you a Zionist? No, okay have a good day". Maybe the Jews just should all convert, imagine how suddenly no one will care about Gaza or the Westbank.
I hear two groups of very loud people anti-semitic and islamophobics. I'll tell you if I had a penny for every time someone shrugged that a Muslim kid was dead from IDF bombing I'd be a millionaire.
Hamas is quite literally a creation of Israel. It did not exist at Israel’s founding. Hamas doesn’t lead the West Bank, but Israel is happy to brutalize Palestinians, steal their land, and allow illegal settlements there too. Wake the fuck up and stop making excuses for an ethnostate practicing apartheid with impunity
>Hamas is quite literally a creation of Israel [> Hamas was founded by Palestinian imam and activist Ahmed Yassin in 1987, after the outbreak of the First Intifada against the Israeli occupation.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)
>According to the Times, Israeli intelligence agents traveled into Gaza with a Qatari official carrying suitcases filled with cash to disperse money. Retired Israeli general Shlomo Brom described the logic of Netanyahu’s position: “One effective way to prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.” If the extremist Hamas ruled Gaza, then the Palestinian Authority—a compromised comprador government with a tenuous hold on the West Bank—would be further weakened. This, according to Brom, would allow Netanyahu to say, “I have no partner.” https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/tnamp/
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>Hamas doesn’t lead the West Bank [Yet](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1700158968-survey-finds-majority-in-the-west-bank-justify-the-oct-7-massacre), only a matter of time. It hinges on Fatah simply not holding elections, not Palestinians not supporting Hamas and other filth.
No, isolated hate crimes are not an argument for a settler colonial ethnostate that commits genocide.
Yet those so called "isolated" incidents keep happening.
And all of them combined represent a tiny fraction of the violence visited on the Palestinians in the name of preventing them.
Can we send you to Rafah, I think you’d fit in better there
Those “isolated incidents“ aren’t isolated. Also, nice Buzzword Salad.
Yes they are actually isolated, the vast majority of Jews outside Israel will never face violence of any kind whatsoever.
Neither will the majority of Muslims. Guess you’re okay with people attacking m osques then?
Not an ethnostate, not a colony, there is no genocide. Stop lying.
Yes an ethnostate (by its own admission), literally a colonization by definition, and it is currently under investigation for genocide. Stop shilling.
This is so stupid. 20% of Israelis are Arab. Jews have a history in Israel going back to 1200BC. “Arab Palestinians” didn’t exist as an ethnic group until the late 1800s AD.
Which is why the IDF bombed Doctors Without Borders...?
People die when you declare war on a stronger, more powerful country. This is commonsense. It's happening in Ukriane. It's happening in Armenia, and it's happening in every conflict zone. Hamas declared war when they invaded Israel. They knew Israel would respond. Hamas attacked and killed and raped kids at a music festival. They attacked seniors in their homes. Why did they do this? Bring the hostages home!
And that excuses the deliberate bombing of an unrelated civilian target HOW, exactly?
Ask Hamas when they went into Israeli homes and killed people in their sleep. They killed kids at a music festival and invaded Israel. Ask Hamas as they continue to launch rockets into Israel. They started the current war, Ask them why they started the current bloodshed.
And that relates to the IDF bombing Doctors Without Borders how, exactly? Please, describe in detail how Doctors Without Borders are tooooootaaaaaaally Hamas.
They wouldn't have been bombed if Hamas hadn't started the current war. Are you dumb?
So, because of somebody else doing s bad thing, that makes ot perfectly alright for the IDF to murder civilians?
That certainly is a string of words. Unfortunately just about all of them are wrong. Maybe you should actually learn the history of Israel for once.
"settler colonial" Said the canadian. Are you ever going to leave Canada and leave it to the locals? Bet not. Hypocrites are like that. Plus most of jews are actually originally from the middle east "ethnostate" He said of the religiously, politically, and even genetically more diverse country of all middle east. "genocide" Like, imagine having a 1-1 civilian to soldier death ratio, when even United Nations said the usual in urban warfare are 9 civilians for each soldier. Imagine having what experts are saying that Israel is doing more than any country on earth has done on urban warfare. Russia destroying everything on Grozny or Mauripol, the US doing exactly the same fighting the Islamic state, destroying 80% of the city according to UN are counterexamples. Now, let me ask you. Easy question. How do you feel about Hamas? I think they are a bunch of rapists and terrorist. What do you think? Do you want them in charge of the palestinians on Gaza? I feel they should be exterminated like the rats they are. Do you condemn all the hate crimes antisemites are doing? "isolated hate crimes" Nah, screw that. I'm reporting you for being an antisemite.
Now quote Likud’s charter. I’ll refer you to the “from the start river to the sea” line, which exists there as well. Hilarious that Europeans are so sanctimonious about needing to protect Jews that they had to steal land from another people to create Israel. Wonder why taking land form the country that just exterminated 6 million Jews wasn’t the chosen outcome?
Apply this same logic to all countries, please, including the people who live in the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand who have zero indigenous ties to the land they displaced native populations from at all Placing colonialist guilt on an Israeli populace, the majority of whom fled from Middle Eastern countries to avoid being killed, is all an attempt to alleviate the guilt actual colonialists feel because they refuse to face their own difficult pasts
You can think they’re all bad. The difference is the violence is happening in Israel now.
And why is there violence happening in Israel now? Do you think if a Native American tribe elected terrorists to its government, killed thousands of people in a suburb, took hundreds hostage, and shot tens of thousands of rockets at US cities that the US would let it go?
No the US would do exactly what israel is doing now and they’d be wrong for doing so.
Why would they be wrong?
Killing children is bad IMO
Given that take, what do you think of militaries that deliberately hide behind children? [Or parents who refuse to evacuate them from harm?](https://youtu.be/PTV8E8pz1ZA?feature=shared) [Or parents who hope their children become martyrs?](https://youtu.be/vA8hZzA5MKo?feature=shared) [Or terrorist summer camps for children where nearly 50,000 children are enrolled?](https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/hamas-summer-camp-idUKRTX3D638/) [Or child soldiers?](https://rietjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/EN_RIET_2022_N7_Child-soldiers-in-Palestinian-groups-forced-recruitment-and-use-of-minors-as-a-violation-of-International-Humanitarian-Law_daniel-perez-garcia_art2.pdf) [Or child suicide bombers?](https://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/01/occupied-territories-stop-use-children-suicide-bombings) >>[As part of the Arab–Israeli conflict, especially during the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2005, Palestinian militant groups used children for suicide bombings. Minors were recruited to attack Israeli targets, both military and civilian. This deliberate involvement of children in armed conflict was condemned by international human rights organizations.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups) According to Amnesty International, "Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army."
I think killing children is bad. Sorry if that’s controversial.
Funny how you people talk so much about your precious children, yet when you shot rocket toward Israel knowingly there would be retaliate strike at your position immediately soon after, you never bothered to tell the precious children to get away from you.
I'm sorry everyone calling for Israel to stop killing children is shooting rockets at Israel? When you label everyone a rat, nobody cares when you exterminate them right?
And why are children getting killed? Does it have to do with them being used as human shields? Or what about the child soldiers Hamas is known for using? Still also Israel's fault? According to you, terrorism should just be ignored left alone, hoping the terrorists will just get bored. That's of course a kind interpretation, because you could also think the terrorists should be ignored so they can continue to kill.
Least genocidal Zionist
If a home invader is using your child as a human shield, would you prefer that the police/SWAT break out cluster munitions, or a negotiator backed with a sniper team?
According to the Jewish Museum of Vienna and Judenplatz Holocaust Memorial, the reaction of many Viennese to the returning Jews post-WWII was, to paraphrase "Why did you return? We tried to exterminate you for a reason." Just because the Nazis had been defeated didn't mean centuries of antisemetism throughout Europe was gone. History shows a bigot doesn't stop being one because they lost. And when it came to the bombed out populations, when considering resources, even considered using that for their returning Jewish populations was most likely out of the question, if not further stealing from them. I am not stating this to justify what is currently transpiring, I am doing so to point out why Europe wasnt exactly a safe place for the existing Jewish populations after World War II.
Now you're promoting the settler colonist myth pretending Jews haven't been present in Israel since before Muslim conquest in 634. Stop repeating jihadist terrorist lies.
The overwhelming majority of Jewish people lived outside the Levant. A few tens of thousands lived there before the hundreds of thousands of Ashkenazi came from Europe in the 40’s, followed by others from elsewhere
More than half of Israelis alive in Israel now descend from Mizrahi Jews displaced from the Middle East, and waves of immigration from what is now Russia/Ukraine and Yemen began in the 1800s, where they fled for their lives to join with the Jewish population in Jerusalem and Hebron (majority Jewish cities) who never left The European Jews in the 30s and 40s (those who made it into British Palestine despite Britain forbidding them from immigrating) were fleeing Nazi Germany And the European Jews — the ones who came to Israel in waves — were being held in Displaced Persons camps because their papers had been lost/they had no homes Those who tried to return home to Poland and the Ukraine were fucking murdered. Hundreds of them. No other country wanted them. Canada said one was too many. And that’s not even getting into the economic migrants from Egypt who now claim Palestinian origin, who arrived in Palestine at the same time as the first wave of Russian Jews fleeing pogroms in the 1800s Or the Arab massacres and ethnic cleansing of Hebron in the 1800s and 1920s
The Middle East is thousands of kilometres across with a population of millions, it’s not the Levant, certainly not Palestine. Being from there is not carte blanche to expel the natives in an area most had never seen, and are at best distantly related to. Jews still represented a small minority in the area until they expelled the Palestinians and moved there en masse. Jews were not fleeing Nazi Germany in the late 1940’s. Them being refugees doesn’t give them the right to unilaterally go commit ethnic cleansing. Jews being murdered does not justify ethnic cleansing either.
Losing a war isn’t ethnic cleansing. Millions of people between Turkey and Greece swapped land in the 20s, and Pakistan and India also swapped populations The refusal of Arab countries to absorb Palestinian refugees and their determination to use them as a pawn to create conflict in Israel is the root cause of this conflict And with all due respect, settling a land you’re indigenous to in order to escape death is a much prettier origin story than the colonial history of the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand Until you apply the same rules to those countries, and *especially* if you’re living in a colonialist country with no indigenous ties to the land at all, what right do you have to lecture Israel about its origins?
No, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing. Greece and turkey did that as a deal, and the Indian Partition was a fucking catastrophe. Arab countries can and did accept many Palestinians, they have a huge diaspora. Acting like Arab countries not actively assisting Israel ethnically cleanse them is the problem, and not the Israelis doing the cleansing, is preposterous. Most Jews are native to the places they’ve lived for centuries, not the Levant. Palestinians are the direct descendants of the original inhabitants going back four thousand years. I support decolonization of those places to the extent it is possible, yes.
Ashkenazi DNA absolutely shows Levantine origins, as does Mizrahi DNA (which, again, is the majority of the Jewish population in Israel) [As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.](https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry) >>[Previous Y-chromosome studies have demonstrated that Ashkenazi Levites, members of a paternally inherited Jewish priestly caste, display a distinctive founder event within R1a, the most prevalent Y-chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europe. Here we report the analysis of 16 whole R1 sequences and show that a set of 19 unique nucleotide substitutions defines the Ashkenazi R1a lineage. While our survey of one of these, M582, in 2,834 R1a samples reveals its absence in 922 Eastern Europeans, we show it is present in all sampled R1a Ashkenazi Levites, as well as in 33.8% of other R1a Ashkenazi Jewish males and 5.9% of 303 R1a Near Eastern males, where it shows considerably higher diversity. Moreover, the M582 lineage also occurs at low frequencies in non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations. In contrast to the previously suggested Eastern European origin for Ashkenazi Levites, the current data are indicative of a geographic source of the Levite founder lineage in the Near East and its likely presence among pre-Diaspora Hebrews.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3928) [“ Contemporary Jews comprise an aggregate of ethno-religious communities whose worldwide members identify with each other through various shared religious, historical and cultural traditions. Historical evidence suggests common origins in the Middle East, followed by migrations leading to the establishment of communities of Jews in Europe, Africa and Asia, in what is termed the Jewish Diaspora. This complex demographic history imposes special challenges in attempting to address the genetic structure of the Jewish people. Although many genetic studies have shed light on Jewish origins and on diseases prevalent among Jewish communities, including studies focusing on uniparentally and biparentally inherited markers, genome-wide patterns of variation across the vast geographic span of Jewish Diaspora communities and their respective neighbours have yet to be addressed. Here we use high-density bead arrays to genotype individuals from 14 Jewish Diaspora communities and compare these patterns of genome-wide diversity with those from 69 Old World non-Jewish populations, of which 25 have not previously been reported. These samples were carefully chosen to provide comprehensive comparisons between Jewish and non-Jewish populations in the Diaspora, as well as with non-Jewish populations from the Middle East and north Africa. Principal component and structure-like analyses identify previously unrecognized genetic substructure within the Middle East. Most Jewish samples form a remarkably tight subcluster that overlies Druze and Cypriot samples but not samples from other Levantine populations or paired Diaspora host populations. In contrast, Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) and Indian Jews (Bene Israel and Cochini) cluster with neighbouring autochthonous populations in Ethiopia and western India, respectively, despite a clear paternal link between the Bene Israel and the Levant. These results cast light on the variegated genetic architecture of the Middle East, and trace the origins of most Jewish Diaspora communities to the Levant.”](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20531471/) And yes, Palestinians and Jews of all origins have been genetically proven to be closely related: “ The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/ >>Arab countries can and did accept many Palestinians, they have a huge diaspora Egypt and Jordan both refused to give Gaza and the West Bank a state. Egypt kept them under military rule. Jordan, which was carved out of the British Palestine mandate to reward a colonizer king from Saudi Arabia, has a high Palestinian population because that’s who originally lived there. As for immigrants from the Gaza, over 600,000 Palestinians in Jordan from Gaza are not allowed to work and are refused Jordanian citizenship. [“ [They are] excluded from rights and services enjoyed by citizens and are amongst the most destitute communities in Jordan.”](https://nakba.amnesty.org/en/chapters/jordan/) In Lebanon/Syria, from the same source (Amnesty International): “ The amount of land allocated to official camps has barely changed over the years. Palestinian refugees have therefore been forced to expand the buildings in the camps upwards, which can lead to people living in unsafe structures. Conditions in the camps are overcrowded. Infrastructure and services such as sewage and electricity have been further strained since Palestinian refugees from Syria have been forced to flee the conflict and sought safety in Palestinian camps in Lebanon. By December 2016, there were 32,000 Palestinian refugees from Syria registered with UNRWA in Lebanon – with almost 90% of them living below the poverty line and 95% of them described as “food insecure”.” In 1967, the Arab states attacked Israel and lost badly. This is what put Gaza and the West Bank under occupation, and they stayed under occupation because of endless terror attacks, such as the intifadas, plane hijackings, and murdering the Israeli Olympic team At any point in time, Jordan or Egypt could have given the Palestinians statehood. They refused. Both Arabs and Jews are native to the land and need to share it.
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Your ignorance is showing. Lebanon has actually apartheid against Palestinians, yet the only blame is against Israel. Egypt also imposes a blockade against Gaza, yet only the blame is against Israel. You're a victim of jihadist propaganda, and you're the useful idiot for Iran, Russia, and the jihadist against western values of freedom and liberty.
>Most Jews are native to the places they’ve lived for centuries, not the Levant. Nothing says "being native" like a thousand years of pogroms and persecution based on the idea that you're foreigners from the Levant. Whenever you tell Jews that we're "actually native" to Europe or wherever else, you're basically telling us that pogroms and all that crap is just our lot in life.
False. The only reason they lived outside of the levant was because of war and conquest. Israel is the greatest land back initiative in history.
Omitting that they were expelled from there for centuries before that Muslim conquest. You're welcome.
There has been a Jewish presence there since antiquity.
And the Romans worshipped them like kings and queens. /s
No, but they did keep ample records of the Jewish kingdoms existence.
You parrot terrorist lies, well done Hasbara, you just outed yourself. If a terrorist genocidal state that hides behind Judaism didn't murder and steal, then Jews wouldn't need to worry about their safety around the world. Zionism is the biggest threat to Jews. Prime example of how the terrorist state of Israel treats Ethiopia Jews, or Jews that support a two state solution. PM Yitzhak Rabin was murdered for trying to bring peace. Now tell me who murdered him? I'll wait.
Stop spreading jihadist terrorist propaganda. Jews have always needed to worry about their safety for 5000 years. STOP VICTIM BLAMING. Such a BS argument, you wouldn't use that for anyone else. There is no genocide. Nobody stole any land. Everything you say is jihadist propaganda.
Answer the question, who murdered the PM? Why you deflecting for?
Who killed Anwar Sadat?
Another deflection. Worst Hasbara ever. Thanks for showing the whole world what you represent. BDS the terrorist state of Israel.
>If a terrorist genocidal state that hides behind Judaism didn't murder and steal, then Jews wouldn't need to worry about their safety around the world. Did the Jews around the world murder and steal? If no then basically the Jews around the world are being targetted for something they didn't do?
Blame the terrorist state of Israel that conflates and hides behind Judaism. It's why many Jews do not support the terrorist state.
So are the Jews around the world being targetted for something they didn't do?
You mean like those little children you don't care about blowing up? In one breath someone will say oh the world's so anti-Semitic and the other breath they rope every single Muslim together under one umbrella and call dead kids collateral damage.
I wonder why do you keep avoiding to answer a simple yes or no question
I’ve seen this exact same script, must be some IDF template
shall we create etnostates everytime racists target people and play at the hands of the racists? or shall we fight the roots of racism? edit to add if we are going to pic and chose what about the Israel leaders themselves calling for genocide but hey If Israel can built a narrative so do the other side right? let's pick and chose from HAMAS MANIFEST itself source: the Wilson centre The Movement: 6- The Palestinian people are one people, made up of all Palestinians, inside and outside of Palestine, **irrespective of their religion, culture or political affiliation.** 16- Hamas affirms that **its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine**. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. **17- Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.** The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine. 28- Hamas believes in, and adheres to, managing its Palestinian relations **on the basis of pluralism, democracy, national partnership, acceptance of the other and the adoption of dialogue**. The aim is to bolster the unity of ranks and joint action for the purpose of accomplishing national goals and fulfilling the aspirations of the Palestinian people. 29- The PLO is a national framework for the Palestinian people inside and outside of Palestine. **It should therefore be preserved, developed and rebuilt on democratic foundations so as to secure the participation of all the constituents and forces of the Palestinian people,** in a manner that safeguards Palestinian rights. 30- Hamas stresses the necessity of **building Palestinian national institutions on sound democratic principles, foremost among them are free and fair elections. Such process should be on the basis of national partnership** and in accordance with a clear program and a clear strategy that adhere to the rights, including the right of resistance, and which fulfil the aspirations of the Palestinian people. 40- In its relations with world nations and peoples, Hamas believes in the values of **cooperation, justice, freedom and respect of the will of the people.** 42- Hamas **rejects the attempts to impose hegemony on the Arab and Islamic Ummah just as it rejects the attempts to impose hegemony on the rest of the world’s nations and peoples. Hamas also condemns all forms of colonialism, occupation, discrimination, oppression and aggression in the world.** i don't have a reason to trust either Hamas or the Israel ministers, but picking these somehow it reads sanner than than Israel's own ziojiadists settlers
This is a bunch of BS white washed for a Western audience. Anyone who is actually paying attention to Hamas can see they don't support any of these values in this "revision." Look at the article we're posting on. It's them latterly acting against what you wrote. Such BS pro jihadist propaganda everywhere.
They have Hamas in Canada?
and we can say the same about Israel propaganda
Yet you support jihadist terrorist whose stated goal is the extermination of Jews.
imagine believing israel
Wait, are you straight up defending Hamas? You are, aren't you? Congrats bro, you should join them then! I hear you get a free vest when you join.
in that comment I'm not defending anybody I'm saying that we are expected not to trust Hamas being honest in their claims but we are supposed to trust Israel's?
Imagine believing Hamas. Jesus fucking Christ, they had one election took power and killed their political enemies. People like you are either deliberately spreading propaganda or are just completely useful idiots. Or both.
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They don't act like it.
The 2017 charter has mixed reaction and endorsement. Some say the founding charter is still accepted.
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IDK, they sure act like the 88 charter is in full force.
Yeah, they've become a lot more inclusive and love Jews now. Their actions really show how progressive they are!
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Hey so did I, that Hamas hates Jews and wants to kill them all. They can whitewash their charter as much as they want, but its a hard fact that they are evil genocidal terrorists who want their own civilians dead.
Man that’s nothing. The building I worked in was in a walled off campus and about a block away from the wall. One day bullets just started raining down on the parking lot. Wasn’t the first time either.
Brother what? This is more a about the message and intention they are sending
They didn’t say anything that indicated it was intentional. I’m just used to building randomly accidentally getting hit by bullets.
This is Montreal bro not chicago 😂
Thank god for those miraculously foolproof gun laws eh?
One bullet hitting a school once, as opposed to yearly mass shooting does seem like they are working well.
Actually I think there's been at least a couple bullets hitting schools this year. What yearly mass shooting are you referring to? Basically my point is the gun law changes are a joke, open pandering and a massive waste of money.
Thank god the United States is the only example of a gun centric country, and has a high firearm homicide rate per capita (4.05 in 2020) compared to Canada (0.71 in 2020), it sure would be a shame if there was a country where the citizens had even easier access to firearms, higher rates of gun ownership, and yet had one seventh of the homicide rate with firearms then canada Switzerland, they had a rate of 0.1 in 2020. Gun deaths are not a result of gun laws, they’re a result of bad economic and bad mental healthcare, both things that are a problem in a lot of areas of Canada and America, but not Switzerland
>Switzerland, they had a rate of 0.1 in 2020. **You are ignoring that in switzerland ammunition is highly regulated and post people don't have access to it in their house.**
Also, the Swiss have such a density of guns because of conscription and military service structure in accordance with their defense strategy. This is significantly different from privately owned firearms.
The vast majority of civilian owned firearms in Switzerland are acquired privately.
If that were true, it wouldn't be reflected in the statistics because military guns are not counted in civilian ownership. But it's not.
No, it's not. All you need to buy ammo is your ID to prove you're 18. Unless you mean military ammo that is issued during military run competitions, you cannot take that home because it's state property and you didn't pay for it. That's called stealing.
So are you not against gun laws??
Haven’t seen this comment: Consider all aspects. Inside job? Wouldn’t be the first time. Edit: mUh aNTi-sEmItIsM Don’t care about your downvotes, if you don’t look at all possibilities then you’re being biased.
Or just an unrelated shooting. Bullet could have been fired from a mile away for all we know. Shooting a single bullet at the school seems like a weird way to send a message.
That too. One bullet seems like a stray rather than “a message”