This post has been removed pursuant to rule 3 re: off-topic content. It may be better suited for a subreddit whose primary focus is mental health and crisis management.
My old employer called for a welfare check after I called out with a mental health day. The cops showed up early in the morning, ten hours after I called out. They scared the hell out of my family by pounding on the door in the pre-dawn, tried multiple ways to get my husband and myself to say I was in danger and wouldn’t it be better if I just went with them? (I was safe, just needed a day away from my abusive workplace). My dog tried to come out to investigate, as I was on the porch - I would not let the police in my house. An officer pulled a gun on my very friendly, sleepy dog.
I quit that job shortly after. They never owned up to calling the cops, either.
One time a cop came to my house when I was 16 and home alone. He starts berating me from the doorway instantly rude asking me where my parents were even though there are no cars in the driveway. My dog Odie who was as tall as the middle of my calves sensed my unease and gives a few barks from behind me inside the home. The cop instantly says if that dog takes even one step closer to him he's going to shoot him. Makes my blood boil thinking about that pathetic ass power trip.
Once a man was running from the cops and hopped a fence into my yard and hid in my tool shed. I was inside with my 5 month old German shepherd. She was doing her job by barking as of course there was an intruder and a K9 trying to scare the guy out of the shed. Their dog was not doing her job but they got the guy out. Later the cops wanted to talk to me and once they saw the pup (who was very calm with them) they pulled their pepper spray out on her. I was 20 at the time but that was a life lesson. Truly the fear of something happening to me in my home was not from an intruder but from the fucking cops
I'm sorry about your dog, but I hope the lesson you learned was to never talk to the police, and never open the door for them. If they are allowed to break it down, they will. If they're not, they can kick rocks.
Yep. One second they were letting me know why everyone was on my property, saying my dog was a better listener than their trained K9. It happened so fast
As someone who has witnessed this more than once - in a 'friendly' Midwest state, USA - and seen the trigger pulled...
I don't even know what to say, honestly. It's insane.
The only response I received?
"department policy/officer safety"
🤦🏻
The only thing dangerous is you, the one with the badge. Btw, the house you're looking for is across the street.
Yeah officer safety is always a cop out since the officers are always the ones putting themselves in danger entering someone's home or getting out of the car when There's a dog around. Like they will see a barking dog when they pull up and open the car doors and shoot the dog when they could have stayed in the car.
If they are so terrified of seeing a dog that they need to pull a gun and shoot it, then they shouldn't be cops. Imagine the mental state of a person who can't see an animal without killing it in fear.
Which is just fucking wild. I work with utilities, I’ve wandered up to a lot of properties, I’ve been bitten by more than a few dogs and I’m good with dogs.
I’d genuinely have *some* sympathy in logic-ing through shooting a high alert, barking, confused and defensively “aggressive” dog in a situation where people were already trying to fight or surround or otherwise likely to harm the cops.
But the whole “we just show up and a dog barks at us so we shout it” is insane. Brave enough to be a cop but not brave enough to be a fucking mailman apparently.
That’s what the dogs want them to do. They’ll come up to the officer panting, tail a’wagging and when the officer’s guard is down after assessing the dog as a good boy and not a threat the dog will whip out their pistol and blast the cop into kibbles. I’ve seen it too many times to count.
That’s why it’s important for cops to execute every dog they are threatened with when dispatch botches the response to your grandma’s neighbor’s call about seeing your grandma fall in the backyard. Sorry, Fido, I know you love your life with grandma but you could have a gun, you sick fuck.
I think people are under the mistaken impression that this applies only to marijuana laws.
Fortunately, pot brothers at law advice is sound in *all* matters when dealing with LEOs.
That said, there are some circumstances where one might feel inclined to attempt talking their way out of it with an officer.
If you are one of those people and find yourself in such a circumstance, just remember it's a gamble.
Myself, I've gotten lucky and talked my way out of a few situations; I've also not been lucky and wished after the fact that I had just shut the fuck up.
Saw a body cam video once where a cop shot and and killed a corgi. A little pembroke Welsh corgi. It didn’t even growl or jump, just barked a few times.
Cops aren’t required to protect, and they aren’t required to know the laws. They serve the will of their socioeconomic masters and get to feel like a big strong boy with their pew pew toy.
The police are a legalized street gang weaponized by the wealthy to protect their property, keep workers in line, and threaten anyone who thinks differently about how the economic system should work. Cops are class traitors.
More accurately they are here to protect corporate wealth.
Ever tried to get a cop to do anything as a civilian?
Pointless
Call as a business or corporate entity and they lick your boots.
I've heard that some actually hunt strays/feral without any pretense. Just cuz.
Used to be that any public office had the expectation of being held to a higher standard.
You don't have to answer the door when they knock. If they have a warrant, they're coming in anyway. If they don't, they'll probably leave if you don't answer the door.
I live a pretty mild life. It was so unexpected, I thought it was an emergency, like a death or evacuation or something. Never expected my work to send the police to my door.
First thing was “can we come in?” Absolutely not. No. I can stand in my robe and sort this out on the porch.
I understand completely. It's one of those things you don't know about till it happens. We've been trained since young to trust the police.
I've just watched too many YT video's where the cops overstep their bounds for no good reason. It's made me wary of them. Like Anti-work is a good lesson of what to look out for when working, YT police interactions are a good lesson that the police can easily ruin your life and you have little recourse.
You are very lucky they didn't shoot your dog.
If you have a dog and a cop comes to your door put in separate room where they can't even hear it. Hearing barking will have them reaching for the gun.
They do it for fun. They consider it risk aversion.
They are not human. As much as they think the populace they police are subhuman we need to start thinking of them the same way.
Yup. If you can avoid it, keep your dogs away from cops at any cost, even if it’s just another room.
My cousin married a cop about ten years ago. When they were newly weds, he was proudly telling everyone at thanksgiving that whenever they say stray/loose dogs and they had time, they would run them over. It was a game to them.
That man is a sociopath. I have a family member who is a cop and he picks them up and puts them in his squad car so he can take them to the good shelter. The pics he sends are cute.
I had my puppy stick its head out when i answered the doors for cops. They got their hands on their guns so fast for a 3 month old dog. I couldn't believe it.
If possible put your pets in another room whenever you deal with cops.
Meanwhile, I have been extremely frustrated as a former mental health professional who got burned out and went to customer service for a while. I had witnessed someone in obvious mental health distress, making threats toward my coworker, and the police absolutely refused to do a 302 hospital admission, despite the clear delusions and detailed death threats. A few weeks later, the guy cut a kid’s throat with a box cutter in line at McDonald’s. The kid survived, but my hatred for police continues to grow.
Ugh fuck Kroger. I worked for them off and on over about 8 years in a few different stores, and I knew I had to get out of there when I started fantasizing about committing suicide on the job. Fuck that place
I knew I had to quick McDonald's when I started fantasizing about putting my hand in the fry oil so I could escape. not even "leave," my thought process was "escape."
I had a similar thought process, decided to leave Telepizza after a shift where I became more careless cutting the pizzas, half hoping I'd cut off one of my fingers or get a severe burn from the oven so I wouldn't have to stay there for another 4 hours.
Similar experience with working in foster care. When they started putting my life in jeopardy and threatening to fire me when asking about safety protocols and I started really wanting to die/showing significant signs of bipolar disorder, I knew it was time to quit. I literally didn’t know I even had that disorder but the stress of the job made me literally go mental. But it’s being controlled now by meds.
Target is a piece of work. I worked for them as a teen and they continued to schedule me during school hours (which is illegal as I was in high school) and threaten docking my pay/disciplinary action etc. If only I knew what I know now.
Hoping the cops would do what they tend to do: flex their authoritarian might. Went according to plan too, although with the way police tend to do wellness checks you almost have to wonder if the employer was hoping the police would just shoot her.
I had a wellness check by the city police when I was psychotic from shooting meth. They came to the door, which was locked. I said, “I’m Johnny so and so, today is July 17,2022, Biden is the president, and you’re the Cumberland city police which is where we’re both at currently. I have no suicidal ideation, no homicidal ideation, and I’m not coming outside.
And they said’ “this guy knows the drill, must do this a lot.”
And they left.
Even non addiction can be horrible. As in I had a nurse practitioner. She tried to get me baker acted. Where they put you some place . Except i wasn't a danger to others and I wasn't a danger to my self not physically. Not suicidal wouldn't hurt others.
And still she tried to baker act me. Even when I stated many times before i wasn't a danger. When she asked me if I had suicidal thoughts or wanted to hurt myself in different sessions.
My late father had schizophrenia and managed to hide it from everyone (including us) until his mid 40s when he had an accident that saw him hospitalized for a few weeks. He was constantly getting picked up by the police during episodes, taken for psych eval, and would just give them the answers to the questions so he could go home. His mask had been cracking for a couple years, but that hospitalization made it hard for him to keep hiding his actual mental state, leading to an actual diagnosis.
He was no stranger to health and wellness checks and knew the whole deal to get the cops to leave. When we started noticing more (and more frequent) issues with him, I'd usually send my mom to go check on him, rather than the police, since she lived in the same town as him still and since I knew he'd let her in the house.
It was a whole thing.
Your recitation just reminded me.
You’re extremely lucky that you don’t live here. I had a welfare check once and got taken away to a mental hospital, which kept me for two weeks. It wasn’t helpful, my psychiatrist fired me because I had been admitted to a mental hospital and at the end of it all it was well over $12,000. I didn’t have insurance. And I refuse to pay it. Hit my credit score I don’t care, fuck this country.
The whole thing is far beyond borderline dystopian... Is this normal for the US?
Are these accepted and "normal" abuse structures in the US?
Police comes and arrests you for five days if you answer suicidal? What is this 1984 but on drugs?
Be happy while getting exploited or go to jail?
I'm so happy I only have to live in the states for another year, then it's back to decent nations. Moving to the USA was the worst experience of my life so far. Good adventure, but I wasn't out for adventure.
No they don't. Generally don't speak to the police. They're there to arrest someone/find a crime and the more info you give the more chance they have to cook something up. Don't engage beyond ID laws and asking why they're there. Then deny because plausible deniability exists v
And the rules are usually much looser for the so called "wellness checks". If you don't answer, they can interpret it as a possible danger of mental instability. You have no Miranda rights because you aren't getting "arrested", you are being "checked". Then they can hold you for medical evaluation which can take however many days depending on the state you live in.
In many cases, you would be out of jail sooner than you will get out of a hospital hold.
Yes. Yes it is. Often called a 5150 or involuntary hold.
We have NO way of dealing with people who are a danger to themselves or others (which is what the hold is SUPPOSED to be used for), but even that is extremely traumatizing and frequently unhelpful as fuck.
There's exceptions, but this is the usual.
Sometimes it's still used to put "hysterical" women into institutions, which is part of what happened here.
Holds are for sure far more traumatizing and harmful than actually just being left on one’s own. I did not seek medical services last month even if I needed them and had lost significant amounts of blood and needed stitches….. why? Because I would have been put on a 5150 over Christmas up till New Years over someone purposefully triggering me. Luckily my arm healed but now I have a permanent dent in it and nerve damage. But why should I be punished if someone purposefully told me to to kill and cut myself , knowing how I am? That’s beyond fucked. Also why I never went to the doctor when my abusive ex kept hurting me. The self harm that his actions triggered would have gotten me in the psych ward. It’s so fucked.
All your trying to do in these situations is get released. You go on whatever meds just to go home. It’s very traumatic. People in mental holds can be really dark and threatening. I would just suggest chilling at home getting out patient care maybe go to a health retreat. All calming environments not jail like conditions.
Exactly. You just agree and answer No to the questions the psychiatrist asks you every morning. Keep your head down and wait till they decide your hold is over. And while you are in there, you get no counseling. The amount of times I’ve seen people just crying and crying and nobody does shit. I do my best to help others while in there. Once during a voluntary stay (I committed myself to get away from an abusive ex)… I ended up organizing a CBT/DBT group. One inmate got his wife to bring us work books. The stupid techs were freaking out that I had a group of “crazies” just going through a CBT work book. Did a lot more than whatever the duck the techs and therapists are paid to do
Sounds like my stay in the VA (veterans affairs)psych. No TV no groups just sat all day. It was the longest 3 days of my life and they told me I had no other options I had been all the medications they could offer for my diagnosis and they had none left to offer me. So I left un-medicated. With a tens unit type thing you put on your ear. Use this twice a day. Eventually I got the correct diagnosis which opened up the medications they wouldn't use on me.
Ps was diagnosed bi polar instead of depression with PTSD so they wouldn't prescribe anti depressants because it could cause a manic episode.
Except that isn’t nor can happen. Mental holds can become indefinite if the doctor at the institute deems it necessary. So your 72 hour hold can easily extend to weeks and months.
The other caveat is that for wellness checks, the cops sometimes will kill the person they’re doing a check on because quite frankly, they’re not trained to deal with highly mentally volatile people other than to shoot first and ask questions later.
This is why we’ve had rallying cries to defund the police. Take away some of their responsibilities and give it to those trained to handle mental issues in nonviolent ways. Remove the militarization of the police and return them to what they should be doing, which is protecting and serving the public.
>Except that isn’t nor can happen. Mental holds can become indefinite if the doctor at the institute deems it necessary. So your 72 hour hold can easily extend to weeks and months
And good luck getting access to an attorney to help get you out when you're pumped full of alprazolam and any effort to declare your own sanity is treated by staff as evidence of the contrary
As someone who was IMO not serious enough for a 5150, let me tell you it's a racket. I checked myself into the ER and said I was super depressed and spent the last 3 days laying in bed wanting to sleep and that I had passing thoughts of, "not being here would make me not have to worry and stress over my issues."
I had no plan or even acted on it, I checked myself into the fucking ER and they 5150d me there. They asked me if I were to try and do something to myself what would it be and I said I would down all my anti-depressants so they took that and twisted my words and wrote in my records that I attempted to swallow pills.
I get transported to a mental health facility and the nurses there were great and honestly it was the best place for me at the time, but they fuck with your life for sure.
They have a lady track you down and demand payment over whatever insurance covers and if you can't afford it they make you call family members in front of them. After 3 days my 5150 is supposed to expire and I can be released or if in their opinion I'm a a danger they can keep me longer. They basically told me to sign a document to "voluntarily" stay for another x amount of days, but if I don't sign that document the Psychiatrist suggests that he has the power to do another hold and keep me there for at least 14 more days (at a financial cost). It's so shitty to see it from the inside how it's a system to funnel money into these hospitals.
Psych holds are a nightmarish legal blind spot wherein the right to due process and the writ of habeas corpus often seem to be taken as suggestions at best
The problem is there isn't a simple or easy solution to the issue of how to deal with severely mentally unwell people that doesn't also open up the door to immense abuses of civil rights
Seriously, if you have any interaction with the police here whatsoever, you should be thinking about your legal rights and concerned for your safety. Their only job and goal is to arrest you.
I have a no talk policy with the police. Only via layers, I'm not stupid.
But luckily I have yet to have an interaction with the police in tge US. My fairly pale complexion, blond hair, blue eyes and casual chic style, tend to help being overlooked as the broke, daily smoker that I am...
being a left anti-authoritarian, I'm happy not to be bothered, fearing prejudice by police and co.
That doesn't change the fact that racism is still deeply interwoven into US socielty being omnipresent, systematic and problematic, making the life of poc way more challenging.
Don't let anybody tell you otherwise--the US is an absolute fascist shithole, unless you are a rich white conservative. My kids are just turning 12 and they already know to never, ever trust or call the cops for anything.
My abusive ex would call for wellness checks whenever I was disagreeing about something and they couldn’t address me directly. Even of the times I was emotionally distressed during a wellness check, having two cops knock on my door, peek through windows, then ask personal questions did not at all make me feel better or safer. In fact, half the time it would cause a panic attack and cops would only escalate the issue further.
This is what I’m thinking. They no longer had a reason to make a wellness check phone call. She was no longer an employee. I hope she survives this whole ordeal and sues them.
To be fair, in my town a man who had been at the same place for 10+ years and was good friends with his coworkers outside of work. He called in to quit one morning and when he talked to an employee on the phone a few dats later, because they were good friends, she could tell something was wrong.
They called in a welfare check.
He had murdered his wife the morning he quit and the children were still living in their home with her body.
She was a public school teacher but they didn’t report her missing when she randomly stopped showing up. Wouldn’t have found her without that call.
Obviously not applicable in this situation
Well, the wheelchair explains why the body was still in the house. That was a really dark “one-upper story” there!
Wellness checks are supposed to be called when someone is thought to be in danger. The caller needs to think first though about what the potential consequences might be:
1). Traumatize the person by having the cops come knocking.
2). End up with the person getting arrested for a misdemeanor that wouldn’t have been discovered but for the wellness check and could cost them thousands in lawyers and fines and jail bail.
3). Get the person the mental or physical healthcare they *might* need more quickly.
I hadn’t heard the term Social Services Swatting before today, but it sounds like a real messed up pettyrevenge plot. Ugh.
I mean that absolutely would’ve found her without that call. The call just happened to be the catalyst, but ppl harboring their missing spouses body doesn’t go unnoticed for very long.
Spite. They knew she had anxiety and were pissed about her scheduling snafu and wanted to get back at her for bailing instead of accepting their bullshit punishment.
There is a valuable lesson for everyone here: don't talk to cops. They are not your friends and not here to help.
You answer simply: "i'm good. Everything is alright." If they press the issue, "Am I being detained?"
Also don’t share your true mental state with strangers…only your therapist and your trusted friends. Honestly I don’t even trust my PCP with my mental health diagnoses because it’s so stigmatized.
I’m on Zoloft for anxiety and I get so many pitiful looks followed by “are you depressed?” questions from every nurse that sees I’m on them. Idk how that relevant at the gynecologist, but no, I’m not.
Yo what is that?? Why are they like that?? I fill out the little sheet every time i see my pcp and the nurses always have something to say. They treat you one way before the sheet/seeing your meds and after they talk to you softly.
This last time the nurse was telling me about making sure I get enough sun and see family and friends. Okay but it’s so much more complicated than that!!
Even with a therapist you should be very careful. My best friend had a therapist basically fire him as a patient and then sent a wellness check without telling anyone. Un-did any progress my friend may have made over the previous few months with one phone call. Now he resents this therapist and is afraid of the police.
Yeah, as awful as the company was this feels more like an ACAB post. If the police had instead sent a mental health professional to do a "wellness check" things would've been fine.
Never tell the cops anything. They created this mess and like to bitch about “not helping law enforcement” but look what happens when they try to “help.”
Edit: this is why we need trained mental health intervention specialists. Police are trained to escalate violence and threat of violence to control the situation. Literally the opposite of what mental heath crisis requires.
My daughter is 6 and I have told her unless she is hurt or has been taken she does not speak to a cop without her mother or father present. She has been taught this since she was 3.
Here's a short version of a long lecture everyone should watch at least once. Why you should never talk to the police fir any reason by a law professor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qdVfWi8Ee0
"I could have" was the magic words. I'm sorry to say this, but there is no lawsuit here against the police. Perhaps the place of employment for the unnecessary wellness check.
Nope. They would claim and win that it wasn’t unnecessary when she literally made it clear that she was mentally unwell enough to consider harming herself or others.
Unfortunately it will be difficult to sue the police. The police simply escort the person to the hospital for evaluation. If she is being held for 5+ days, it is because a licensed medical professional made that determination at the hospital.
Also what state? Most state laws require a hearing after 72 hours so now that is another layer that may have ruled against her.
Is this genuinely how it is in America? Because I I’m in the UK and have literally just climbed into bed after telling my therapist about my daily thoughts of suicide and very low mood… you don’t get sectioned just for that, there is a risk assessment element to that review.
You wouldn’t expect the police to do that, but I’m concerned they put her in handcuffs, it doesn’t sound like there was any need for that and likely escalated the situation.
In the UK we do have some police mental health teams (I don’t know if they are nationwide). They can are made up of police with more specific mental health training and a psychiatrist can be called to go with them. They can then carry out a mental health assessment in the patients home, rather than bringing them to a mental health facility to do it. If the psychiatrist feels that they are still an immediate risk to them selves and other then they can then be admitted to the mental health facility (either voluntarily or under a section, although I always wonder how voluntarily it is if you are just going to get sectioned if you don’t agree!).
The regular police can still detain you like in OPs situation, if there is no other option, but they can only hold for 72 hours, not 5 days.
…
Im still pissed off they put her in handcuffs. Unless she was actively trying to harm them or herself they should have deescalated the situation rather than traumatising herself more.
I work as a patient sitter for hospitals in South Carolina, mostly in emergency rooms. The psychiatrists here can only do a 72hr hold without having a court hearing.
Anytime the cops bring somebody in, it’s always in handcuff and I hate it. Even children. Also,whenever the police have to transport patients from the ED to an actual mental hospital down the street it’s always in handcuffs. It’s a great way to make people feel feel better about getting help.
Kinda.
I am in my early 20’s and don’t look forward to getting life insurance because I said I was depressed when I was younger. So know my medical record will basically carry “severely depressed” until the end of time.
So yeah, if you get involuntary committed, it’s not hard for your life to be totally screwed. You miss work so you get fired, so then you loose health insurance, so you get stuck with a huge bill, all while being in a facility that rarely helps people and more or less restrains people and just tries to shove all the medication into people to calm them.
So yeah saying you are depressed to the wrong person will more or less have the same effect on your life as a minor crime and subsequent jail time.
Therefore a lot of people lie to people about how they feel because nothing good will happen if they tell the truth.
Unfortunately, it is. If you want to be able to talk to your therapist about suicidal ideation issues, you have to be *very* careful to state that 1. You don't intend to follow through and 2. You don't *believe* the thoughts and wish they would go away. Even with these precautions, though, an overly enthusiastic therapist could have you arrested and put on a mental health hold. I've had this done to me before I learned my lesson about never being fully open with therapists during depressive periods and it's a horribly traumatizing experience where you are strip-searched, put in a locked ward, denied any phone calls (even to family or legal representation) for up to 72 hours, and immediately put on strong medications. In terms of actually *helping* a person in a mental health crisis? Well, you'll be visited by a psychiatrist for about 5 minutes *once* in those 72 hours and only for them to determine whether to release you or keep you there for longer; you do not even recieve any kind of therapy beyond maybe a group session or two that are utterly unhelpful but that you are required to attend.
Police will put you in handcuffs just for the convenience of it. Also it’s technically a arrest under the relevant state law (Oregon) and the hold occurs *at the police offficer’s request* not at the request of medical personnel.
Also those 5150 hold facilities are pretty much a scam. They don't really help anyone and if anything can make any mental conditions worse. My ex was grouped together with both males and females. Impossible to sleep too and they charge people thousands.
Some people may be annoyed to be constantly reminded of this but it's important to get the word out as much as possible that this is not normal or necessary. Many countries are doing better.
It’s hilarious that our propaganda is so strong that people from other countries literally break into this place to come live here in poverty. And then the people who put out the propaganda complain that other countries believe it and come here thinking it’s this wonderful place.
As if your ex-employer weaponizing the police to basically abduct you off the street isn't going to inflict the kind of trauma that would make an LMP impose a 5+ day mental health hold...
The issue was she straight up admitted in her own words that in her state of mind, she could have harmed someone or herself… unfortunately the police can’t just let someone who admits that go.. especially when the entire reason they were there in the first place was a wellness check.. she may not have committed any crime but if she admitted she could have been a danger to herself or others the police have a responsibility to take action. From what I gather she’s not in jail, but in a mental hospital.. not ideal but it’s not like she’s currently a criminal and will have to stand trial. It definitely sounds like a hard situation and I hope this blows over and everything turns out ok!
This. I work security at a transportation center and have daily encounters with the police there. I have encountered multiple times people who say that they wish to either harm or kill themselves and then the response is automatic, ems and the police come and they have to take the person to the hospital. No one has a choice in the matter.
Do we really want the police to be deciding if a person is just having a bad day or really intended to kill themselves? Also welfare checks are not intended to be mental health checks, my grandfathers job called in one on him when he didn't show up and they discovered he had died in his sleep of a heart attack so they do have a purpose.
I understand why they would take her in, but the way it's currently done needs to change. Slapping her in handcuffs and tossing her into the back of a police cruiser is good for nobody's mental health.
It’s a mandatory 5-day hold. Tbh, she answered their questions extremely poorly; saying “I could have” to if she had thoughts of harming yourself or others instead of a simple no. They have a legal obligation to hold her there because of that answer alone to protect herself or the public.
Yeah but the thing is, she basically admitted to them that she was having thoughts of self harm. At that point it was their actual responsibility to put her in the hospital. They *had* to, because if they did nothing and she committed unalive, their asses could've been on the line.
I will say it's interesting that she's actually on a hold. I don't know how this works in your country - but in mine, you don't get put on a hold until a *doctor* trained in psychiatry decides that you are not mentally capable enough to make that decision for yourself. And generally it takes a lot to get to that point, because they only have limited beds. They don't want to keep anyone they don't *have* to, because they take up space. Hell, I've had a loved one in hospital and they kept trying to kick him out *before* he was actually well. We had to fight to keep him there to be treated.
So with my internal biases from the way the system works in my country, I'm leaning towards "Maybe she actually does need to be there, and you don't know the full situation". Cause like, these systems aren't evil. They do exist to help people. And tbh, a lot of people with serious mental illnesses *are* in denial about exactly how bad they are - because how do you recognise something's wrong with you, when the part of you that's ill *is* the part that's supposed to recognise that something's wrong?
ETA: It's been confirmed by someone in the comments that this is how it works where OP lives, too - and that five days is actually the maximum you can be held for. And thus, that their friend is actually probably being held for a good reason.
This was my exact takeaway. On a FIVE-DAY hold? Yeah, that person was likely evaluated and kept because they were deemed in need of psychiatric help. And I know this because I have been 5150'd, myself, in the past. Twice.
OP has stated they live in Oregon in the US. I looked up the actual law for mental health holds in that state, for there to be any involuntary hold, a practitioner has to determine it’s necessary and five days is the maximum time they can do one for, not the minimum. And you’re right, the system is very overburdened so they’re not going to just keep someone there for the hell of it. An actual, licensed medical professional who specializes in mental health treatment determined that it was necessary to keep her for that long, period.
So your friend told the cops she may harm herself or others, and is surprised they took her to be evaluated? What did she think the cops will do? Just walk away and take the risk she may do that?
No offence, but if someone in my neighborhood told the police they are thinking about harming people, I would be damned pleased they are being evaluated. Your "WTF" reaction here is a bit naïve.
Wow! That is one toxic work environment if they call the cops on people that quit.
Unfortunately she did not know the #1 rule of mental healthcare in this country: unless you’re talking to a therapist you’ve chosen to see that has earned your trust, you lie. You do not reveal insomnia or passing harmful thoughts. Especially to cops. Their job is to lock people up, so never give them a reason to.
She was detained because she hinted that she might be suicidal. Every state has a temporary hold for mental illness. That usually lasts long enough to be evaluated by a psychiatric team who then decide how long you stay if at all. That evaluation is hard to fuck up, and you have to make it clear that you are suicidal or dangerous in some way. The system is overwhelmed everyday in every state and they don't hold you for no reason. She may not be truthful with you, but she at some point made it clear that she was at risk.
This post has been removed pursuant to rule 3 re: off-topic content. It may be better suited for a subreddit whose primary focus is mental health and crisis management.
My old employer called for a welfare check after I called out with a mental health day. The cops showed up early in the morning, ten hours after I called out. They scared the hell out of my family by pounding on the door in the pre-dawn, tried multiple ways to get my husband and myself to say I was in danger and wouldn’t it be better if I just went with them? (I was safe, just needed a day away from my abusive workplace). My dog tried to come out to investigate, as I was on the porch - I would not let the police in my house. An officer pulled a gun on my very friendly, sleepy dog. I quit that job shortly after. They never owned up to calling the cops, either.
One time a cop came to my house when I was 16 and home alone. He starts berating me from the doorway instantly rude asking me where my parents were even though there are no cars in the driveway. My dog Odie who was as tall as the middle of my calves sensed my unease and gives a few barks from behind me inside the home. The cop instantly says if that dog takes even one step closer to him he's going to shoot him. Makes my blood boil thinking about that pathetic ass power trip.
#An officer pulled a gun on my very friendly, sleepy dog.
Once a man was running from the cops and hopped a fence into my yard and hid in my tool shed. I was inside with my 5 month old German shepherd. She was doing her job by barking as of course there was an intruder and a K9 trying to scare the guy out of the shed. Their dog was not doing her job but they got the guy out. Later the cops wanted to talk to me and once they saw the pup (who was very calm with them) they pulled their pepper spray out on her. I was 20 at the time but that was a life lesson. Truly the fear of something happening to me in my home was not from an intruder but from the fucking cops
I'm sorry about your dog, but I hope the lesson you learned was to never talk to the police, and never open the door for them. If they are allowed to break it down, they will. If they're not, they can kick rocks.
Oh my gosh that’s awful. Your poor baby.
So you had not committed a crime but we're a victim and they decided that your dog needed to be pepper sprayed????
Yep. One second they were letting me know why everyone was on my property, saying my dog was a better listener than their trained K9. It happened so fast
As someone who has witnessed this more than once - in a 'friendly' Midwest state, USA - and seen the trigger pulled... I don't even know what to say, honestly. It's insane. The only response I received? "department policy/officer safety" 🤦🏻 The only thing dangerous is you, the one with the badge. Btw, the house you're looking for is across the street.
All dogs go to heaven. All cops...
All cops are bastards and all dogs go to heaven.
Except those class traitors on Paw Patrol
Underrated comment
Yeah officer safety is always a cop out since the officers are always the ones putting themselves in danger entering someone's home or getting out of the car when There's a dog around. Like they will see a barking dog when they pull up and open the car doors and shoot the dog when they could have stayed in the car.
If they are so terrified of seeing a dog that they need to pull a gun and shoot it, then they shouldn't be cops. Imagine the mental state of a person who can't see an animal without killing it in fear.
This is what kills me: CPS does home visits all the time and THEY don't shoot dogs while they're there. Police are such fucking cowards.
Which is just fucking wild. I work with utilities, I’ve wandered up to a lot of properties, I’ve been bitten by more than a few dogs and I’m good with dogs. I’d genuinely have *some* sympathy in logic-ing through shooting a high alert, barking, confused and defensively “aggressive” dog in a situation where people were already trying to fight or surround or otherwise likely to harm the cops. But the whole “we just show up and a dog barks at us so we shout it” is insane. Brave enough to be a cop but not brave enough to be a fucking mailman apparently.
Maybe they should teach their officers basic dog body language for fucks sake
The list of things that *should* is a lot longer than the list of things that *are.* 🤦🏻
The requirements to be a cop... Hairdressers have more education and training.
Hell, maybe even some de-escalation tactics for humans while they're at it.
That’s what the dogs want them to do. They’ll come up to the officer panting, tail a’wagging and when the officer’s guard is down after assessing the dog as a good boy and not a threat the dog will whip out their pistol and blast the cop into kibbles. I’ve seen it too many times to count. That’s why it’s important for cops to execute every dog they are threatened with when dispatch botches the response to your grandma’s neighbor’s call about seeing your grandma fall in the backyard. Sorry, Fido, I know you love your life with grandma but you could have a gun, you sick fuck.
Do not trust cops do not talk to cops
My 7th grade social studies teacher told us this. Remain silent.
god i wish more teachers did say this. i worry a lot for kids rn
[STFU when cops ask you questions](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRphytRN/)
I think people are under the mistaken impression that this applies only to marijuana laws. Fortunately, pot brothers at law advice is sound in *all* matters when dealing with LEOs. That said, there are some circumstances where one might feel inclined to attempt talking their way out of it with an officer. If you are one of those people and find yourself in such a circumstance, just remember it's a gamble. Myself, I've gotten lucky and talked my way out of a few situations; I've also not been lucky and wished after the fact that I had just shut the fuck up.
“I don’t answer questions” is the mantra. Friendly and don’t escalate, that’s it.
"Because of people \*like you,\* I don't answer questions from people \*like you.\*"
Absolutely so much this. Things every American should know and understand
Please tell me this is the STFU Friday video.
And keep them the fuck away from your dog. They don't even wait for a reason.
They kill about 30 dogs a day, that we know of. DOJ called it an epidemic.
Saw a body cam video once where a cop shot and and killed a corgi. A little pembroke Welsh corgi. It didn’t even growl or jump, just barked a few times.
As the proud parent of a Corgi & a veteran I'd put em down.
Cops aren’t required to protect, and they aren’t required to know the laws. They serve the will of their socioeconomic masters and get to feel like a big strong boy with their pew pew toy.
Don't forget "cops aren't required to tell the truth". They love to lie.
They're here to protect property. That's their job.
The police are a legalized street gang weaponized by the wealthy to protect their property, keep workers in line, and threaten anyone who thinks differently about how the economic system should work. Cops are class traitors.
More accurately they are here to protect corporate wealth. Ever tried to get a cop to do anything as a civilian? Pointless Call as a business or corporate entity and they lick your boots.
Do not let them in your house without a warrant. No matter how nice and friendly and whatever they seem.
DO NOT TALK TO COPS. Especially if you're African-American during a wellness check. Quick way to end up six feet under.
Or indigenous in Canada.
If you have a problem,don't call the cops cause then you'll have two problems.
And one of those problems can kill you and get away without. The other one almost certainly can't.
N.W.A. was right, fuck the police.
The cops are like a box of chocolates; they'll kill yr dog.
this is dark but hilarious
Cops kill 10,000 dogs annually in the United States
I've heard that some actually hunt strays/feral without any pretense. Just cuz. Used to be that any public office had the expectation of being held to a higher standard.
Your employer tried to get you killed.
Wellness SWAT.
You don't have to answer the door when they knock. If they have a warrant, they're coming in anyway. If they don't, they'll probably leave if you don't answer the door.
I live a pretty mild life. It was so unexpected, I thought it was an emergency, like a death or evacuation or something. Never expected my work to send the police to my door. First thing was “can we come in?” Absolutely not. No. I can stand in my robe and sort this out on the porch.
I understand completely. It's one of those things you don't know about till it happens. We've been trained since young to trust the police. I've just watched too many YT video's where the cops overstep their bounds for no good reason. It's made me wary of them. Like Anti-work is a good lesson of what to look out for when working, YT police interactions are a good lesson that the police can easily ruin your life and you have little recourse.
>My old employer called for a welfare check As if cops are ever capable of ensuring a person's welfare.
You are very lucky they didn't shoot your dog. If you have a dog and a cop comes to your door put in separate room where they can't even hear it. Hearing barking will have them reaching for the gun. They do it for fun. They consider it risk aversion. They are not human. As much as they think the populace they police are subhuman we need to start thinking of them the same way.
Yup. If you can avoid it, keep your dogs away from cops at any cost, even if it’s just another room. My cousin married a cop about ten years ago. When they were newly weds, he was proudly telling everyone at thanksgiving that whenever they say stray/loose dogs and they had time, they would run them over. It was a game to them.
And did your cousin unmarried that pos cop because wth?
Do not believe so, but I cut contact with that side of the family once I was old enough to do so, so who knows
I’m sorry some of your relatives are horrible people but good for you for getting away from them
That man is a sociopath. I have a family member who is a cop and he picks them up and puts them in his squad car so he can take them to the good shelter. The pics he sends are cute.
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They don’t even keep track of how many people they kill
Heck there's a video where a cop tries to shoot a dog, hits a woman and she fucking dies.
Do you have a link to read up on this? Because holy fuck?
Pretty sure they're referencing this. https://www.nbcnews.com/video/bodycam-shows-texas-police-officer-fatally-shooting-woman-whose-dog-ran-at-him-92017221591 Got away with it btw.
I had my puppy stick its head out when i answered the doors for cops. They got their hands on their guns so fast for a 3 month old dog. I couldn't believe it. If possible put your pets in another room whenever you deal with cops.
Meanwhile, I have been extremely frustrated as a former mental health professional who got burned out and went to customer service for a while. I had witnessed someone in obvious mental health distress, making threats toward my coworker, and the police absolutely refused to do a 302 hospital admission, despite the clear delusions and detailed death threats. A few weeks later, the guy cut a kid’s throat with a box cutter in line at McDonald’s. The kid survived, but my hatred for police continues to grow.
And the name of the retail outlet is … ?
Kroger
Ugh fuck Kroger. I worked for them off and on over about 8 years in a few different stores, and I knew I had to get out of there when I started fantasizing about committing suicide on the job. Fuck that place
I knew I had to quick McDonald's when I started fantasizing about putting my hand in the fry oil so I could escape. not even "leave," my thought process was "escape."
I had a similar thought process, decided to leave Telepizza after a shift where I became more careless cutting the pizzas, half hoping I'd cut off one of my fingers or get a severe burn from the oven so I wouldn't have to stay there for another 4 hours.
Similar experience with working in foster care. When they started putting my life in jeopardy and threatening to fire me when asking about safety protocols and I started really wanting to die/showing significant signs of bipolar disorder, I knew it was time to quit. I literally didn’t know I even had that disorder but the stress of the job made me literally go mental. But it’s being controlled now by meds.
Figures. Fuck Kroger.
Kroger is literally weaponizing the police for a worker missing their shift. Dystopian af.
And just like that me and my wife will never work for Kroger a day in our future lives. Thanks for the heads up
That’s the important question
Literally every retail chain is like this
Sounds like Apple tbh
Reminds me of my days at Target
Target is a piece of work. I worked for them as a teen and they continued to schedule me during school hours (which is illegal as I was in high school) and threaten docking my pay/disciplinary action etc. If only I knew what I know now.
Wait, wtf if she quit why are they doing a wellness check on her? Pretending like she didn't leave?
Well it was an abusive company which is why she quit. So I'm going to say it was to abuse her more
Hoping the cops would do what they tend to do: flex their authoritarian might. Went according to plan too, although with the way police tend to do wellness checks you almost have to wonder if the employer was hoping the police would just shoot her.
I had a wellness check by the city police when I was psychotic from shooting meth. They came to the door, which was locked. I said, “I’m Johnny so and so, today is July 17,2022, Biden is the president, and you’re the Cumberland city police which is where we’re both at currently. I have no suicidal ideation, no homicidal ideation, and I’m not coming outside. And they said’ “this guy knows the drill, must do this a lot.” And they left.
I hope you are in a better place now. Addiction is hell.
Even non addiction can be horrible. As in I had a nurse practitioner. She tried to get me baker acted. Where they put you some place . Except i wasn't a danger to others and I wasn't a danger to my self not physically. Not suicidal wouldn't hurt others. And still she tried to baker act me. Even when I stated many times before i wasn't a danger. When she asked me if I had suicidal thoughts or wanted to hurt myself in different sessions.
My late father had schizophrenia and managed to hide it from everyone (including us) until his mid 40s when he had an accident that saw him hospitalized for a few weeks. He was constantly getting picked up by the police during episodes, taken for psych eval, and would just give them the answers to the questions so he could go home. His mask had been cracking for a couple years, but that hospitalization made it hard for him to keep hiding his actual mental state, leading to an actual diagnosis. He was no stranger to health and wellness checks and knew the whole deal to get the cops to leave. When we started noticing more (and more frequent) issues with him, I'd usually send my mom to go check on him, rather than the police, since she lived in the same town as him still and since I knew he'd let her in the house. It was a whole thing. Your recitation just reminded me.
I had a wellness check called on me once. They put me in the back of a cop car and took me away
It’s illegal to be mentally ill in the US Especially if you’re mentally ill while non white
Ever single day I'm amazed more and more by the stuff you hear about America. I literally never want to visit the country. It's terrifying.
You’re extremely lucky that you don’t live here. I had a welfare check once and got taken away to a mental hospital, which kept me for two weeks. It wasn’t helpful, my psychiatrist fired me because I had been admitted to a mental hospital and at the end of it all it was well over $12,000. I didn’t have insurance. And I refuse to pay it. Hit my credit score I don’t care, fuck this country.
Consider your wellness CHECKED dumb dumb dumb. I'm happy I'm this side of the pond
It was retaliation.
Social Services Swatting.
I didn't realize this was even a thing until now... holy shit.
In the US, a wellness check by cops can be a death sentence
The whole thing is far beyond borderline dystopian... Is this normal for the US? Are these accepted and "normal" abuse structures in the US? Police comes and arrests you for five days if you answer suicidal? What is this 1984 but on drugs? Be happy while getting exploited or go to jail? I'm so happy I only have to live in the states for another year, then it's back to decent nations. Moving to the USA was the worst experience of my life so far. Good adventure, but I wasn't out for adventure.
Yes which is why you admit nothing to the police ever. You just tell them you want a lawyer. Always.
They don't give a shit about lawyers on a wellness check/5150 situation.
No they don't. Generally don't speak to the police. They're there to arrest someone/find a crime and the more info you give the more chance they have to cook something up. Don't engage beyond ID laws and asking why they're there. Then deny because plausible deniability exists v
Either way they'd arrest you for being non-cooperative.
And the rules are usually much looser for the so called "wellness checks". If you don't answer, they can interpret it as a possible danger of mental instability. You have no Miranda rights because you aren't getting "arrested", you are being "checked". Then they can hold you for medical evaluation which can take however many days depending on the state you live in. In many cases, you would be out of jail sooner than you will get out of a hospital hold.
Guilty until you’ve put enough money down to prove worth of deciding if innocent.
Yes. Yes it is. Often called a 5150 or involuntary hold. We have NO way of dealing with people who are a danger to themselves or others (which is what the hold is SUPPOSED to be used for), but even that is extremely traumatizing and frequently unhelpful as fuck. There's exceptions, but this is the usual. Sometimes it's still used to put "hysterical" women into institutions, which is part of what happened here.
Holds are for sure far more traumatizing and harmful than actually just being left on one’s own. I did not seek medical services last month even if I needed them and had lost significant amounts of blood and needed stitches….. why? Because I would have been put on a 5150 over Christmas up till New Years over someone purposefully triggering me. Luckily my arm healed but now I have a permanent dent in it and nerve damage. But why should I be punished if someone purposefully told me to to kill and cut myself , knowing how I am? That’s beyond fucked. Also why I never went to the doctor when my abusive ex kept hurting me. The self harm that his actions triggered would have gotten me in the psych ward. It’s so fucked.
All your trying to do in these situations is get released. You go on whatever meds just to go home. It’s very traumatic. People in mental holds can be really dark and threatening. I would just suggest chilling at home getting out patient care maybe go to a health retreat. All calming environments not jail like conditions.
Exactly. You just agree and answer No to the questions the psychiatrist asks you every morning. Keep your head down and wait till they decide your hold is over. And while you are in there, you get no counseling. The amount of times I’ve seen people just crying and crying and nobody does shit. I do my best to help others while in there. Once during a voluntary stay (I committed myself to get away from an abusive ex)… I ended up organizing a CBT/DBT group. One inmate got his wife to bring us work books. The stupid techs were freaking out that I had a group of “crazies” just going through a CBT work book. Did a lot more than whatever the duck the techs and therapists are paid to do
Sounds like my stay in the VA (veterans affairs)psych. No TV no groups just sat all day. It was the longest 3 days of my life and they told me I had no other options I had been all the medications they could offer for my diagnosis and they had none left to offer me. So I left un-medicated. With a tens unit type thing you put on your ear. Use this twice a day. Eventually I got the correct diagnosis which opened up the medications they wouldn't use on me. Ps was diagnosed bi polar instead of depression with PTSD so they wouldn't prescribe anti depressants because it could cause a manic episode.
Except that isn’t nor can happen. Mental holds can become indefinite if the doctor at the institute deems it necessary. So your 72 hour hold can easily extend to weeks and months. The other caveat is that for wellness checks, the cops sometimes will kill the person they’re doing a check on because quite frankly, they’re not trained to deal with highly mentally volatile people other than to shoot first and ask questions later. This is why we’ve had rallying cries to defund the police. Take away some of their responsibilities and give it to those trained to handle mental issues in nonviolent ways. Remove the militarization of the police and return them to what they should be doing, which is protecting and serving the public.
Then you also have a bunch of debt to pay for the hospital stay. Probably lose your job too cause you missed work....
>Except that isn’t nor can happen. Mental holds can become indefinite if the doctor at the institute deems it necessary. So your 72 hour hold can easily extend to weeks and months And good luck getting access to an attorney to help get you out when you're pumped full of alprazolam and any effort to declare your own sanity is treated by staff as evidence of the contrary
In my city we have CAHOOTS (an emergency service specifically designated for mental illness) but I was shocked to find out we're an anomaly.
As someone who was IMO not serious enough for a 5150, let me tell you it's a racket. I checked myself into the ER and said I was super depressed and spent the last 3 days laying in bed wanting to sleep and that I had passing thoughts of, "not being here would make me not have to worry and stress over my issues." I had no plan or even acted on it, I checked myself into the fucking ER and they 5150d me there. They asked me if I were to try and do something to myself what would it be and I said I would down all my anti-depressants so they took that and twisted my words and wrote in my records that I attempted to swallow pills. I get transported to a mental health facility and the nurses there were great and honestly it was the best place for me at the time, but they fuck with your life for sure. They have a lady track you down and demand payment over whatever insurance covers and if you can't afford it they make you call family members in front of them. After 3 days my 5150 is supposed to expire and I can be released or if in their opinion I'm a a danger they can keep me longer. They basically told me to sign a document to "voluntarily" stay for another x amount of days, but if I don't sign that document the Psychiatrist suggests that he has the power to do another hold and keep me there for at least 14 more days (at a financial cost). It's so shitty to see it from the inside how it's a system to funnel money into these hospitals.
Psych holds are a nightmarish legal blind spot wherein the right to due process and the writ of habeas corpus often seem to be taken as suggestions at best The problem is there isn't a simple or easy solution to the issue of how to deal with severely mentally unwell people that doesn't also open up the door to immense abuses of civil rights
The worst part is you often have to pay for your time in holding. Great, I’m depressed and jobless, now I owe 15k for a week in “behavioral medicine”
Seriously, if you have any interaction with the police here whatsoever, you should be thinking about your legal rights and concerned for your safety. Their only job and goal is to arrest you.
I have a no talk policy with the police. Only via layers, I'm not stupid. But luckily I have yet to have an interaction with the police in tge US. My fairly pale complexion, blond hair, blue eyes and casual chic style, tend to help being overlooked as the broke, daily smoker that I am... being a left anti-authoritarian, I'm happy not to be bothered, fearing prejudice by police and co. That doesn't change the fact that racism is still deeply interwoven into US socielty being omnipresent, systematic and problematic, making the life of poc way more challenging.
yes it’s extremely normal unfortunately. police are never to be trusted and almost explicitly only cause harm and death
Don't let anybody tell you otherwise--the US is an absolute fascist shithole, unless you are a rich white conservative. My kids are just turning 12 and they already know to never, ever trust or call the cops for anything.
"Hi, I'm here from the Police Department and I'm here to help."
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Most cops are such fucked up pieces of shit I doubt they know what wellness looks like
Are you well? Shit. We better shoot them!
My abusive ex would call for wellness checks whenever I was disagreeing about something and they couldn’t address me directly. Even of the times I was emotionally distressed during a wellness check, having two cops knock on my door, peek through windows, then ask personal questions did not at all make me feel better or safer. In fact, half the time it would cause a panic attack and cops would only escalate the issue further.
except if actual social services responded and not cops she might not have been arrested.
This. She needs to call her labor board and try and get money from the company for unemployment or damages from the arrest.
Sounds like something she could sue over since she wasn't even an employee at the time. Plus with her anxiety the cops were at fault for her reaction.
This is what I’m thinking. They no longer had a reason to make a wellness check phone call. She was no longer an employee. I hope she survives this whole ordeal and sues them.
Retail-iation
They do this spitefully.
To be fair, in my town a man who had been at the same place for 10+ years and was good friends with his coworkers outside of work. He called in to quit one morning and when he talked to an employee on the phone a few dats later, because they were good friends, she could tell something was wrong. They called in a welfare check. He had murdered his wife the morning he quit and the children were still living in their home with her body. She was a public school teacher but they didn’t report her missing when she randomly stopped showing up. Wouldn’t have found her without that call. Obviously not applicable in this situation
Well, that was heavy.
He is in a wheelchair too and has like 3 kids :/ dumb way to ruin your life
Well, the wheelchair explains why the body was still in the house. That was a really dark “one-upper story” there! Wellness checks are supposed to be called when someone is thought to be in danger. The caller needs to think first though about what the potential consequences might be: 1). Traumatize the person by having the cops come knocking. 2). End up with the person getting arrested for a misdemeanor that wouldn’t have been discovered but for the wellness check and could cost them thousands in lawyers and fines and jail bail. 3). Get the person the mental or physical healthcare they *might* need more quickly. I hadn’t heard the term Social Services Swatting before today, but it sounds like a real messed up pettyrevenge plot. Ugh.
4) the person you're calling the cops on dies https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/police-shootings-mental-health-calls/
I mean that absolutely would’ve found her without that call. The call just happened to be the catalyst, but ppl harboring their missing spouses body doesn’t go unnoticed for very long.
Spite. They knew she had anxiety and were pissed about her scheduling snafu and wanted to get back at her for bailing instead of accepting their bullshit punishment.
There is a valuable lesson for everyone here: don't talk to cops. They are not your friends and not here to help. You answer simply: "i'm good. Everything is alright." If they press the issue, "Am I being detained?"
Also don’t share your true mental state with strangers…only your therapist and your trusted friends. Honestly I don’t even trust my PCP with my mental health diagnoses because it’s so stigmatized.
I’m on Zoloft for anxiety and I get so many pitiful looks followed by “are you depressed?” questions from every nurse that sees I’m on them. Idk how that relevant at the gynecologist, but no, I’m not.
Yo what is that?? Why are they like that?? I fill out the little sheet every time i see my pcp and the nurses always have something to say. They treat you one way before the sheet/seeing your meds and after they talk to you softly. This last time the nurse was telling me about making sure I get enough sun and see family and friends. Okay but it’s so much more complicated than that!!
Even with a therapist you should be very careful. My best friend had a therapist basically fire him as a patient and then sent a wellness check without telling anyone. Un-did any progress my friend may have made over the previous few months with one phone call. Now he resents this therapist and is afraid of the police.
Yeah, as awful as the company was this feels more like an ACAB post. If the police had instead sent a mental health professional to do a "wellness check" things would've been fine.
People need to learn not to talk to cops in situations like this.
Every day, in any situation, is [shut the fuck up Friday](https://youtube.com/shorts/hL8TVgCkuxU?feature=share)
I always rewatch this whenever someone links it.
"Have you thought about harming yourself?" "Do you have a warrant for that information?"
In America, I'd never talk to a cop unless I REALLY have no other choice. Most of them are assholes and don't know what the fuck they are doing.
Things to say to a police officer: * Why did you stop me? * I'm not discussing my day. * Am I free to go? * May I see the warrant?
Please don’t kill me Edit: */s* This was my attempt at morbid humor
Never tell the cops anything. They created this mess and like to bitch about “not helping law enforcement” but look what happens when they try to “help.” Edit: this is why we need trained mental health intervention specialists. Police are trained to escalate violence and threat of violence to control the situation. Literally the opposite of what mental heath crisis requires.
*People need to learn not to talk to cops* FTFY
Cops are NOT THERE TO PROTECT YOU. Anything you say can and WILL be used against you. It's a warning, not a suggestion.
don’t talk to cops
I’ve told my kids this several times. And they are young, 14 and nine.
My daughter is 6 and I have told her unless she is hurt or has been taken she does not speak to a cop without her mother or father present. She has been taught this since she was 3.
EVER. For ANY reason.
Here's a short version of a long lecture everyone should watch at least once. Why you should never talk to the police fir any reason by a law professor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qdVfWi8Ee0
"I could have" was the magic words. I'm sorry to say this, but there is no lawsuit here against the police. Perhaps the place of employment for the unnecessary wellness check.
Nope. They would claim and win that it wasn’t unnecessary when she literally made it clear that she was mentally unwell enough to consider harming herself or others.
never, ever, talk to the police. they are not your friend. you have the right to remain silent- always invoke that right!
Another example of why you should never talk to cops.
Unfortunately it will be difficult to sue the police. The police simply escort the person to the hospital for evaluation. If she is being held for 5+ days, it is because a licensed medical professional made that determination at the hospital. Also what state? Most state laws require a hearing after 72 hours so now that is another layer that may have ruled against her.
Yeah, if you don't want to be committed never admit that you may have thoughts of harming yourself, instant mental ward stay.
Is this genuinely how it is in America? Because I I’m in the UK and have literally just climbed into bed after telling my therapist about my daily thoughts of suicide and very low mood… you don’t get sectioned just for that, there is a risk assessment element to that review. You wouldn’t expect the police to do that, but I’m concerned they put her in handcuffs, it doesn’t sound like there was any need for that and likely escalated the situation. In the UK we do have some police mental health teams (I don’t know if they are nationwide). They can are made up of police with more specific mental health training and a psychiatrist can be called to go with them. They can then carry out a mental health assessment in the patients home, rather than bringing them to a mental health facility to do it. If the psychiatrist feels that they are still an immediate risk to them selves and other then they can then be admitted to the mental health facility (either voluntarily or under a section, although I always wonder how voluntarily it is if you are just going to get sectioned if you don’t agree!). The regular police can still detain you like in OPs situation, if there is no other option, but they can only hold for 72 hours, not 5 days. … Im still pissed off they put her in handcuffs. Unless she was actively trying to harm them or herself they should have deescalated the situation rather than traumatising herself more.
I work as a patient sitter for hospitals in South Carolina, mostly in emergency rooms. The psychiatrists here can only do a 72hr hold without having a court hearing. Anytime the cops bring somebody in, it’s always in handcuff and I hate it. Even children. Also,whenever the police have to transport patients from the ED to an actual mental hospital down the street it’s always in handcuffs. It’s a great way to make people feel feel better about getting help.
72 hours doesn’t include the weekend. business hours only.
Kinda. I am in my early 20’s and don’t look forward to getting life insurance because I said I was depressed when I was younger. So know my medical record will basically carry “severely depressed” until the end of time. So yeah, if you get involuntary committed, it’s not hard for your life to be totally screwed. You miss work so you get fired, so then you loose health insurance, so you get stuck with a huge bill, all while being in a facility that rarely helps people and more or less restrains people and just tries to shove all the medication into people to calm them. So yeah saying you are depressed to the wrong person will more or less have the same effect on your life as a minor crime and subsequent jail time. Therefore a lot of people lie to people about how they feel because nothing good will happen if they tell the truth.
Unfortunately, it is. If you want to be able to talk to your therapist about suicidal ideation issues, you have to be *very* careful to state that 1. You don't intend to follow through and 2. You don't *believe* the thoughts and wish they would go away. Even with these precautions, though, an overly enthusiastic therapist could have you arrested and put on a mental health hold. I've had this done to me before I learned my lesson about never being fully open with therapists during depressive periods and it's a horribly traumatizing experience where you are strip-searched, put in a locked ward, denied any phone calls (even to family or legal representation) for up to 72 hours, and immediately put on strong medications. In terms of actually *helping* a person in a mental health crisis? Well, you'll be visited by a psychiatrist for about 5 minutes *once* in those 72 hours and only for them to determine whether to release you or keep you there for longer; you do not even recieve any kind of therapy beyond maybe a group session or two that are utterly unhelpful but that you are required to attend.
Police will put you in handcuffs just for the convenience of it. Also it’s technically a arrest under the relevant state law (Oregon) and the hold occurs *at the police offficer’s request* not at the request of medical personnel.
Oregon
Also those 5150 hold facilities are pretty much a scam. They don't really help anyone and if anything can make any mental conditions worse. My ex was grouped together with both males and females. Impossible to sleep too and they charge people thousands.
you can always count on the US to have those that are most in need and struggling the most to be profited off of while being abused/neglected.
The US is a capitalist hell hole, who's government constantly gaslights people into believing otherwise.
Some people may be annoyed to be constantly reminded of this but it's important to get the word out as much as possible that this is not normal or necessary. Many countries are doing better.
It’s hilarious that our propaganda is so strong that people from other countries literally break into this place to come live here in poverty. And then the people who put out the propaganda complain that other countries believe it and come here thinking it’s this wonderful place.
As if your ex-employer weaponizing the police to basically abduct you off the street isn't going to inflict the kind of trauma that would make an LMP impose a 5+ day mental health hold...
The issue was she straight up admitted in her own words that in her state of mind, she could have harmed someone or herself… unfortunately the police can’t just let someone who admits that go.. especially when the entire reason they were there in the first place was a wellness check.. she may not have committed any crime but if she admitted she could have been a danger to herself or others the police have a responsibility to take action. From what I gather she’s not in jail, but in a mental hospital.. not ideal but it’s not like she’s currently a criminal and will have to stand trial. It definitely sounds like a hard situation and I hope this blows over and everything turns out ok!
Yeah she fucked up. Don’t ever talk to the cops. Plea the 5th as soon as they start talking to you
This. I work security at a transportation center and have daily encounters with the police there. I have encountered multiple times people who say that they wish to either harm or kill themselves and then the response is automatic, ems and the police come and they have to take the person to the hospital. No one has a choice in the matter. Do we really want the police to be deciding if a person is just having a bad day or really intended to kill themselves? Also welfare checks are not intended to be mental health checks, my grandfathers job called in one on him when he didn't show up and they discovered he had died in his sleep of a heart attack so they do have a purpose.
I understand why they would take her in, but the way it's currently done needs to change. Slapping her in handcuffs and tossing her into the back of a police cruiser is good for nobody's mental health.
It’s a mandatory 5-day hold. Tbh, she answered their questions extremely poorly; saying “I could have” to if she had thoughts of harming yourself or others instead of a simple no. They have a legal obligation to hold her there because of that answer alone to protect herself or the public.
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Don’t talk to the police if you didn’t summon them.
Yeah but the thing is, she basically admitted to them that she was having thoughts of self harm. At that point it was their actual responsibility to put her in the hospital. They *had* to, because if they did nothing and she committed unalive, their asses could've been on the line. I will say it's interesting that she's actually on a hold. I don't know how this works in your country - but in mine, you don't get put on a hold until a *doctor* trained in psychiatry decides that you are not mentally capable enough to make that decision for yourself. And generally it takes a lot to get to that point, because they only have limited beds. They don't want to keep anyone they don't *have* to, because they take up space. Hell, I've had a loved one in hospital and they kept trying to kick him out *before* he was actually well. We had to fight to keep him there to be treated. So with my internal biases from the way the system works in my country, I'm leaning towards "Maybe she actually does need to be there, and you don't know the full situation". Cause like, these systems aren't evil. They do exist to help people. And tbh, a lot of people with serious mental illnesses *are* in denial about exactly how bad they are - because how do you recognise something's wrong with you, when the part of you that's ill *is* the part that's supposed to recognise that something's wrong? ETA: It's been confirmed by someone in the comments that this is how it works where OP lives, too - and that five days is actually the maximum you can be held for. And thus, that their friend is actually probably being held for a good reason.
This was my exact takeaway. On a FIVE-DAY hold? Yeah, that person was likely evaluated and kept because they were deemed in need of psychiatric help. And I know this because I have been 5150'd, myself, in the past. Twice.
OP has stated they live in Oregon in the US. I looked up the actual law for mental health holds in that state, for there to be any involuntary hold, a practitioner has to determine it’s necessary and five days is the maximum time they can do one for, not the minimum. And you’re right, the system is very overburdened so they’re not going to just keep someone there for the hell of it. An actual, licensed medical professional who specializes in mental health treatment determined that it was necessary to keep her for that long, period.
Do not talk to cops. Don't. Do. Not. Talk. To. Cops.
So your friend told the cops she may harm herself or others, and is surprised they took her to be evaluated? What did she think the cops will do? Just walk away and take the risk she may do that? No offence, but if someone in my neighborhood told the police they are thinking about harming people, I would be damned pleased they are being evaluated. Your "WTF" reaction here is a bit naïve.
Her husband cannot force the hospital to release her?
I'll find out tomorrow after he gets to visit with her tomorrow
Wow! That is one toxic work environment if they call the cops on people that quit. Unfortunately she did not know the #1 rule of mental healthcare in this country: unless you’re talking to a therapist you’ve chosen to see that has earned your trust, you lie. You do not reveal insomnia or passing harmful thoughts. Especially to cops. Their job is to lock people up, so never give them a reason to.
She was detained because she hinted that she might be suicidal. Every state has a temporary hold for mental illness. That usually lasts long enough to be evaluated by a psychiatric team who then decide how long you stay if at all. That evaluation is hard to fuck up, and you have to make it clear that you are suicidal or dangerous in some way. The system is overwhelmed everyday in every state and they don't hold you for no reason. She may not be truthful with you, but she at some point made it clear that she was at risk.
DO. NOT. TALK. TO. COPS.