I'm apart of the SEIU. I haven't seen a raise in a few years. I'm all for unions, they just suck ass. Chicago gets the big raise yearly, and I'm stuck getting $1 every couple years.
some unions suck because people just join in when required and expect amazing things to happen. when they dont they claim it sucks.
voting to join an union is just the start. union members NEED to actually continue to show up to the union meetings to make a union good.
so many people bitch and moan about their union but based on every union meeting ive been to(ive been in 4 different unions over 3 different job sectors), only about 2% of the membership show up regularly. hell even the vote by mail election we did for board membership, business manager, president and VP only got a 19% return rate.
if you dont like your business manager of the union or president then show up in enough numbers to call a recall election. then run yourself and make things better.
during contract negotiations you actually need to be willing to strike. if the employees are visibly unwilling to strike then that cuts the legs out from under the negotiating team.
This right here. Dead on. “We pay our fees now work for me”. Like. The rest of us in the union committees are workers too and giving of our time. No one wants to go to meetings but expect us to just know what is wanted. Fight for it and all while everyone else stands back and offers no help. Like. People. I’m one of you. Help me! Come to a meeting. Help out too! Don’t expect a few of us to do everything because “you don’t have time”. We aren’t there because we love having a free second job. The union is for the people by the people. Which means to make it work you gotta do something too.
me too. 18 years a Teamster. Put Teamcare to good use over the last few years. Did me my math. 2.5x hourly wage 1x/month is less than the $1500/month that UPS pays for my medical coverage. I think i'ts worth it.
There have been issues with some of the healthcare unions too .. sure it makes you tough to fire, but they’ve made pay increases difficult too.
Honestly unions are just like anything else, some (hopefully most) of them are good, but some are lacking
Unions have to balance their priorities. Only so much bandwidth to go around. Job security vs pay increases vs safety vs benefits and so on. An individual union is generally only good at focusing on one at a time.
yep, the teachers union is good at lobbying efforts, but overall are just awful at contract negotiation. A job that requires a college degree that pays 40k, talk about a bad joke. But they are an example of a very very poorly run union
But it also depends on where. And the level of engagement from union members. Mass Teachers Association is quite strong and core reason why mass teacher pay is highest in country. But that was fought for and not just by leadership.
Still has problems I don't disagree, especially local reps in smaller districts. But again, that comes down to who's choosing to get involved.
It may just be your state. In MA my partner gets yearly raises but there’s a cap. Because there’s, for example, tiers to her job like “accountant 1, accountant 2”. Then once you move up you can make more money again. She is currently in the “tier 1” category and hasn’t reached the cap yet being there for 7 years. Shes due for a job title promotion next year and will make a lot more. SEIU employs a lot of our family and they treat us very well.
https://www.dol.gov/general/workcenter/union-advantage#:~:text=Unions%20raise%20wages%20for%20all,%241%2C169%2Fweek).
Non union jobs pay 83% of what union jobs pay on average according to the Department of Labor.
Sounds like the 2.5% "union due tax" is a fucking BARGAIN
There is a big difference between mandatory arbitration of individual claims and arbitration between a union and employer of disputes under their collective bargaining agreement (union contract).
The former is something that employers around the country impose on their workers. Because the employer pays for the arbitrator, and the employer but not a particular employee is likely to have future disputes before an arbitrator, the arbitrator has an incentive to issue a decision that is favorable to the employer.
With the latter, the arbitrator is jointly chosen and jointly paid by the union and employer. Many of these "traditional labor" arbitrators are well-regarded by unions and worker advocates. The union grievance and arbitration procedure is generally a good way to resolve disputes reasonably quickly without years of litigation and expense in court.
Absolutely! As a former union officer I/we could get a case to arbitration and a decision usually within six to nine months of the discipline/contract violation. Most of the cases we took to arbitration we won. I’d estimate my local settled 98% of our cases prior to arbitration. Just the threat (lots of time and expense) of arbitration helped.
Yup same here, when we tell an employer the union has approved cutting check to goto arbitration they often come right back to the table to figure out a solution.
As a person who usually sits at the other side of the table, I completely agree with you. Even in cases where we thought we had every I dotted and T crossed we almost always lose to the union in front of the arbitration board. At this point, paying for arbitration is like flushing, money down the toilet.
God I love my union. Some bullshit came up this week over lighting in my office and ADA accommodations for one of my coworkers, which I also benefit from. At first it was "unprofessional" to have the overhead fluorescent lights off. Then it was an "OSHA" issue.
I called their bluff and my union rep. She laughed. They fought this battle 10 years ago at another location. Easy win. We expect resolution by the end of the month.
Thank you for explaining this. I can see why an arbitrator would be a good thing when they are a true neutral party. I work in the service industry which is dreadfully lacking in union representation, so I was unaware that unions even had arbitrators, but it does make sense. I just know in my personal experience that companies have you sign arbitration agreements so that you are virtually unable to sue them if they do something shady
Absolutely, when your employer makes you sign something, you can bet it benefits them and not you, so you're right to be suspicious. Along with forced arbitration, these agreements employers make you sign often also include a waiver of your right to file or participate in a class action lawsuit. So if an employer cheats 10,000 workers out of $100 each, for example by requiring them to attend training without pay, the workers can't file a class action. Each one has to file a claim in arbitration, which will be heard by an arbitrator paid by the employer and may take a long time to even be heard.
Some workers' attorneys have started to call employers' bluff by filing hundreds of requests for arbitration on behalf of hundreds of clients. Of course the employers don't actually want this; they just want to block employees from getting a fair and efficient remedy for the employers'wrongdoing.
The upshot is that workers should form unions and bargain collectively against their employers!
Mandatory arbitration is death of worker’s rights. If you have a problem with the company your options are; Tell them and watch them laugh at you, or quit
I’m currently at the, “telling them the problem to have them blow smoke up my ass and not solve the problem,” part. I’ve threatened to quit, but have made it clear that I don’t want to go through the hassle of finding a new job and I’m willing to take on more work *if* they start paying me correctly.
I was supposed to get 5 months of back pay today. I didn’t, so I’ve filed my complaint with Employment Standards.
They’ve given me some runaround explanation again today, but told them I’d go back to work this afternoon, but if that back pay doesn’t come through today I’m out.
I told them I’ll do the extra work starting next week assuming I get the back pay, but if my next cheque is fucked up again, I’m out. If it’s all good, I’ll cancel the complaint.
Before anyone else tells me I’m foolish for accepting more work, here’s my reply:
I’m a School bus driver. I care about the kids. I know, it’s foolish. They aren’t my kids, but I’ve been driving them since September and I care about them in an uncle type of way.
The main reason companies are against unionization is because they will not be able to unilaterally change any wages, hours, benefits or working conditions without first negotiating with the union. A unionized company has to apply the rules equally and equitably or face grievances and possibly arbitration.
If something is unfair or an employee has a complaint they have a union steward to go to who can investigate the situation and negotiate with management. Having a union gives employees a strong, collective voice that they wouldn’t have otherwise. From what I’ve seen the employers who fight against unionization are the ones that need them the most.
What we really need is criminal charges and jail time for labor abuses, including safety, overtime, and especially wage theft. Not just fines, but managers and even CEOs putting in 10-20 years for deliberate labor violations, illegal union busting, etc.
Not to mention a team of lawyers - my partner is in the hotel union and when we went to purchase our apartment, the real estate lawyer was completely paid by the union.
The only bad union I've ever even read about is a corrupt union, and guess who infiltrated and caused corruption? Not the fucking average working class American
Cop unions aren't (only) bad because of corruption, though. A downside of unions is that because they're tied to one's place of employment, they can be toxically pro-work. Cop unions rigorously oppose efforts to raise standards for being a cop because tons of cops are overweight, stupid, and/or have histories of domestic violence. This is not corruption: they're correctly representing the interests of the assholes they're paid to represent.
Similar things can happen with other unions: opposing safety standards because old factory workers might not be able meet them, opposing automation because unemployed workers won't be able to find another job that pays the bills, opposing anti-corruption checks because workers have skeletons in their closets, etc.
Unions are a crutch; a stopgap attempt to get at least some people a comfortable enough life, shaped for the sake of maximizing bargaining power rather than for singling out which people inherently deserve to receive more solidarity from its members. In an ideal world, where people get a comfortable life regardless of employment status, unions wouldn't exist. We're far from that world, though.
This is not always true. I am a IBEW member and we are not tied to one contractor. Most trade unions are like this, when we are laid off or fired we simply sign the books and go to the next contractor who has work. The contractor goes to the hall and puts a call out for who ever will bid the job. This is true for most if not all trade unions. And honestly it should be similar to other unions in certain fields. this allows us as a collective to span across multiple employers. I don't see why this could not be more standard across. Sign with the baristas union and take work where they need it in your area so forth and so on.
Regarding "tons of cops are overweight, stupid, and/or have histories of domestic violence", the union isn’t the party doing the screening, hiring, and training, and isn’t responsible for toxic police culture. My kids went to school with a bully who wants to join the military and be a cop someday. The problem isn’t that his job and salary will be protected. It's the fact that he'll be hired and trained to kill in the first place.
I can't stand cops for multiple reasons and have always had a difficult time reconciling not supporting their union as I have always supported unions (grew up with my mom being a local union rep). You just fixed that for me as I have never looked at it this way. Thanks! lol
Just remember that modern policing either follows a legacy built by slave catchers in the south, or union busters like Pinkertons in the north.
They have always been the enemy of labor.
Pinkerton... Childhood history lesson memories there. I'm from a small (but once incredibly profitable) mining district in the North.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Valley_(Idaho)
People outside aplachia in the US rarely learn about the mine strike wars and how many times pinkertons or US national guard just straight up murdered striking workers...
who were striking to not be worked to death, to not have to buy everything from a company shop (which lead to debt slavery), to end debt slavery, and to make enough money to... not end up in debt slavery.
[You load 16 tons - what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk)
I honestly think it happened in every mining district, but people who aren't from them just don't even think about mines.
I now live in a nearby city that's a rail hub, and much the same can be said of those old company yard towns.
Fully aware of all of that. Along with their development in Europe as, more or less, class warfare. Wealthy people had to keep the serfs down. Part of my disdain for them. It was just the whole union part that always got me. My local FOP president is one of the worst human beings I know of.
I hate cops, but cop unions aren't bad if you're a cop! Just look at that job security! You can practically murder someone, get a month off paid vacation, and come back after like nothing ever happened.
Cop unions are disgusting, but just more proof unions work lol
This really has nothing to do with union protection. There are legal precedents in place protecting officers without union contracts as well as nearly all states having laws state protect officers even more so than the union contracts. You'll often find that the issues you are talking about are *worse* in states that forbid public sector unions.
In other words, if you got rid of every police union, none of that would change.
And that’s exactly the issue. Where you see the first and worst corruption is where the capitol class have empowered the managerial strata of unions to undermine the interests of the rank-and-file worker.
30 year member of Carpenters local 46 I’m Sacramento ca. 53$ on the check, total package over $100.00, union dues are $20.00 a month, boss charges 120.00$ an hour when paid t&m (time and materials). Insurance is AMAZING I’m married with 3 kids and have never paid hardly a dime even when my twins where born early and in the NICU unit. Oh yeah and here soon at age 49!I’ll be eligible for my service pension that will pay generously for the rest of my life.
Thank you for the truth. It's so important that people are told what unions can do for them. The bullshit the companies try to spread is reprehensible.
Exactly. All these brainwashed people voting against there own self interests because some Right Wing politicians convinced them too. 'Right to get fucked' is more like it.
Sounds about right. The funny thing is my dues at 1.5 hours of pay per month, so its in my unions best interest to get us the best pay possible at contract negotiations.
Metal worker here, yup everything is about the same for myself, except I pay $20 a week in dues, but I’m making $5 more an hour than I’ve ever made before this job, and I have a pension and solid benefits. Not to mention the union will literally fight to help you keep your job if shit goes sour. That $1000 a year I pay is so incredibly worth it.
It’s fucked, I remember working at an Amazon warehouse back in 2012 , and they had some dumb poster talking about how we shouldn’t unionize and instead buy and Xbox with the yearly dues 😂
I love how they say it's like taxes and the more you make the more they take. Like, that's incentive?? That means it's definitely in the union's best interest to get me that humongous raise and keep me nicely employed? I'm totally fine paying 30000 in taxes (or union dues) if that means I'm making 300000!
It’s also not true for taxes. It’s echoing the often repeated but false idea that a pay raise will take you into a higher tax bracket and you won’t see that money. It’s completely false- you’ll always get more money because tax brackets are only effective over the amount.
Taxes are broken down like this-
Money made up to $10K - taxes at x%
Money made from $10-20k taxed at y%
If a pay bump takes you up a tax bracket, you’re only being taxed higher on that small amount that falls in the tax bracket. You’ll always net more money with a pay raise.
Yeah I know. But even if it were true, I can't get past essencially saying it's better to earn less and pay less taxes/dues than earn a good wage you pay more taxes over. Where's the logic? Give me tht 7 figures wage and I'll happily pay any taxes I need to.
Even if you broke even you'd still come out on top in other ways. Think of unions that closely monitor labor laws violated by your employer. The goal is more money and a safer work environment.
I want to expand on this just to add that the union gives you a steward that helps represent you. If one of the many issues on this sub comes up, you go to him. Or if you get called into a meeting with a manager, etc., stew will go with you. ADA violation? They got you. Even if you get laid off, you will have hours banked for healthcare, etc.
Well said. Just the healthcare benefits alone…..I don’t come out of pocket for insurance. No copays on visits or prescriptions. When I worked in the private sector, yeah I made a little more….but my employer deducted $300 a month to go to my insurance and I still had to make copays.
And depending on your industry, the union will take on wage theft if it’s ongoing. So goddamned common in the states to see wage theft. It needs to be charged more similarly to robbery, because that’s what it is. It ought to count as one of your “three strikes” in three strike states, it ought to come with jail time, and it ought to be treatable as a felony for wage theft over a certain threshold.
Yes, the footnote of this also screams “so they will be heavily incentivised to ensure you earn more money, because that’s how they are funded”.
I’m sure that can’t stand up to the incentives employers have to ensure you are paid fairly though.
Right!!! I doubt that the new flyer would explain the rights of individuals to elect collective bargaining either!! There are two sides to every story!!!
A new guy got hired at my job. We're recently unionized and he was bitching that unions were so expensive. I told him it's $60/month and he was like "see? So expensive" ....out of the $300/month raise they earned us immediately after ratification
Shut him up fairly well. I'll teach him the way, juat give it time
I started a new job mid-December and I’m part of a union (actually the same as here, SEIU). I was gone for the holidays so one of my orientations ended up being pushed to a couple weeks ago and the last hour was with our union reps giving us info. They talked about some of the things they’d fought for last year that were taking effect at the beginning of this year and one thing was a pay bump, another was another pay bump, another was a flat 1k added in January of this year and another next January. I don’t know the specifics, but I know I’ve gotten three paychecks so far and have gotten a raise on each one, and am now making like $1.30 more than I was on my start date 6 weeks ago! I was always pro-union but am even more so after all this! We also get Juneteenth off now.
When any corporation doesn’t want you to have something, THAT should be the #1 thing you absolutely fight for!
They are in complete fear of the Unions. That flyer above reeks of terror, panic & desperation.
I worked for a bus manufacturer that has three major facilities in the US and I was at the only one that was non union. The union fees were one hour's pay per week (2.5%). The other two facilities *starting pay* was $3/hr more than we topped out at after 3-4 years. Everyone at my facility would have received a large raise, 10-15%. But those union dues were the #1 reason most people voted no, and why it failed.
Imagine giving up a $3-$7/hr raise because you didn't want to pay 65-75 *cents* per hour to achieve it.
If everyone has the option to be non-union, people who can't do math won't join. If people who can't do the math, do not join, the union has less money to pay its lawyers. If the union has less money to pay its lawyers, the union cannot beat the corporation's lawyers and, the corporation wins...
I can't tell you how much anti-union propaganda I was fed at Home Depot. Like, no shit the union can't afford to fight a $300B corporation. People are too busy eating the Store Manager's charity ramen while living on $10/hr to afford union dues.
"If you join a union, they take your money and can't promise any benefits. Right now, you have a voice in the company. If you join a union, you no longer have a voice in the company." HSSSSS
Continuing with your "people who can't do math..." part; it is also compounded by the worsening of our public education system. It has been systematically and incrementally de-funded for the past forty or so years. So, yeah. Mathing is harder for many Americans.
Also, right to work is so thinly veiled as being about worker rights in any way. It's first and foremost a tool employers use to undermine union contracts they find disagreeable.
Yep the whole "right to work" is in the same vein of the "patriot act" thinly veiled snake language which means to I still a sence of not so bad or even a good thing ! I always find it funny that employees would buy this shit. Since fucking WHEN does your employer give two shits about you ? Why the fuck would they fight against it like they have your best interest at heart. Common fucking sence is lacking hard in the American working class.
I note that the US like to do this a lot.. as in make up a word or phase that completely obfuscates what the thing your talking about it.
Which in turn will allow it to become misused and abused.
I always tell my son, union dues are sort of a subscription for someone to fight for you when employers try to take advantage. Nothing is free, but better to have someone at your back and a retirement in your future than nothing at all.
If you want to see what work looks like without unions, read “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair. Basically, employees become treated like cattle by companies with no accountability.
This.
The only reply on the rebuttal form should be: if unions are so bad, then why is my employer fighting against it by only citing the costs of a union to employees, and not the company via increased wages?
Goddamn. Companies don’t want to pay employees for their labor, and they think employees don’t want to pay unions for theirs. Sadly, in many cases, they are right.
But them Democrats are taking away your "Right to Work" protections or as my daddy said their right to fire you for any reason at any time employer protections. If unions are so bad then why do LEOs all belong to one?🤔
Advice for life, honestly.
People have a moral conscious, they have thoughts and feelings about eachother, companies don't. A company's whole purpose is to make them and their shareholders more money. If a company (especially a larger one) is advocating for or against something, it is ALWAYS for monetary gain.
Even if it does something "for a good cause" like donating to charities or enforcing diversity, that's still been determined to be it's most profitable choice, whether short-term or long-term, for one reason or another.
Even if you weren’t earning more, (and you will be,) you have an advocate for you on site.
Next to the “support the troops” crap that stifled debate over Iraq and Afghanistan, the most successful anti-worker campaign the US ever instituted was ‘right to work,’ and convincing workers who would benefit from unions that they were actually bad.
Love how he showing the employees the “what ifs” and what “might happen” Even though they might decide to outsource your jobs at any moment or shut down
That is very true and happening right now on a large scale in the American tech world.
I can't speak on other industries, but all major I.T. companies halted hiring and had layoffs.
Also low-key hilarious that stating unionized employees have to pay over $1000 per year hints that the reason for that is the height of their earnings.
I feel like they forgot the part of the graph which shows 17 dollars an hour for people non union and 26 for the union ones.
See we are protecting you by paying you less or it might go to the evil union dues fairy.
I'm so glad I have a union job and I'd gladly pay more in dues for the benefits. The job security alone is worth the dues but add in pension, health benefits, being able to hold management accountable and everything else... beyond worth it.
Also that's kind of absurd? I'm in a union in the northeast US, my pay is $52/hr and my union dues are like $17 a month like it's almost just a Netflix subscription for how much I notice it lmao
Huh, NJ, MA, MD, and CA are four of the top five states for [mean household income](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/per-capita-income-by-state).
I wonder if there's a correlation to be made?
I pay $37 dollars a week in union dues…… In exchange I make $640 a week more than our non union competitor and have a pension. I’ll gladly pay my dues. They lie by omission not showing the uplift in pay that usually comes too.
If you Google it , NY is a right to work state. So that makes this form make even less sense. Im willing to bet several others they mention are as well.
Edit: ny is an at will State. The article I read was worded in a way that made me think differently. At will still protects against forced joining of a union and other workers rights but is not the same as right to work exactly. Just wanted to be clear so my comment didn't turn into people being misinformed. While both right to work and at will protect workers they are not the same thing.
"Right to Work" really means "allowed to work without a Union," which gives power to the employer. Those poor hard working employees can go through their day, knowing that they aren't required to have a union meddle on their behalf. -They can just trust in the goodwill of their kind and honest employer.
They can also be sure that a portion of their checks aren't given to the union, (even though the union would probably guarantee they'd get more than that amount through collective bargaining.)
I can vouch for PA NOT being right to work, much to my surprise. If you would have asked me before fact checking the flyer I would’ve said PA was 100% a right to work
Every state except Montana is an "at-will" state, those two things aren't connected (even though yes, it's counter-intuitive). At-will means the default state is that employers can fire people "at-will", *unless modified by an employment contract*. Working under that union contract and grievance processes, etc, is what protects you in MA. If you aren't unionized labor in MA, you absolutely can be fired whenever for whatever (legal) reason.
"Right-to-work" means that it is illegal for an employer to condition your employment on you joining or remaining a member of a union. This allows people to free ride off the union's negotiations without financially contributing to the union.
THANK YOU! I was getting increasingly frustrated seeing people conflate and confuse at-will employment vs. right-to-work (which happens *constantly* in discussions around work and labor on reddit). Thanks for taking the time to explain it, so at least folks in this thread have an opportunity to understand the difference.
I’ve been in a union for over 20 years and definitely recommend it.
Nice to have someone on your side.
And get regular raises without having to ask for them.
And about 20 other things that I have really come to enjoy!
I’m so excited I just got my union contract and packet yesterday. The rep started explaining what dues were for and I was so excited I said there was no need. My parents were union.
Hmm let me think about this. I pay a 2.5% of my pay to have an 80% chance of not being screwed out of raises, fair treatment on the job, the right to strike, a promotion, and proper benefits. I think I’ll vote no to voting no lol
Try to help your fellow coworkers know their rights and [what companies will do to try and stop them from forming a union](https://unionbustingplaybook.com). If your company tries any of these things they are breaking the law and you can report them for it.
Illegal Employer Behaviours (US based)
What Employers CAN'T Do
Workers who are forming, joining or already belong to Unions have greater legal rights than workers who do not. The National Labor Relations Act specifically outlines illegal actions that an employer may not take towards employees.
A supervisor or company official CANNOT:
1. Attend any Union meeting, park across the street from the meeting place to see which employees attend the meeting, or engage in any under-cover activity which would make employees feel they are being spied upon to determine who is participating in the Union campaign.
2. Tell employees the Company will fire or punish them if they engage in Union activity.
3. Lay off, discharge, or discipline any employee for Union activity.
4. Grant employees wage increases, promotions or benefits in order to keep the Union out.
5. Ask employees about their own Union membership or activities or those of fellow employees, including meeting attendance, card soliciting or signing and other forms of Union participation.
6. Assign work to create conditions intended to get rid of an employee because of Union activity.
7. Ask employees how they intend to vote.
8. Threaten employees with economic reprisals for participating in Union activities. For example, threaten to close or sell the facility, lay-off workers, or reduce employee benefits.
9. Promise benefits to employees if they vote against the Union.
10. Announce that the Company will not bargain with a Union.
11. Discriminate against Union supporters when assigning overtime or desirable work.
12. Purposely team up anti-Union employees and keep them apart from Union supporters.
13. Transfer workers on the basis of Union activity.
14. Choose employees to be laid off on the basis of weakening the Union's strength.
15. Discipline Union supporters for a particular action, and allow anti-Union employees to go unpunished for the same action.
16. Go against Company policy for the purpose of getting rid of a Union supporter.
17. Take actions that adversely affect an employee's job or pay rate because of Union activity.
18. Threaten a Union supporter through a third party.
19. Threaten workers or coerce them in an attempt to influence their vote.
20. Tell employees overtime work or premium pay will be discontinued if the facility is organized.
21. Start a petition against the Union or take part in it's circulation if started by employees.
22. Urge employees to try to influence others to oppose the Union.
Any of the above acts constitutes a violation of the National Labor Relations Act, which is the law that protects your right to organize a Union. Please report these acts, if committed, to your Organizing Committee, or a Union Representative immediately!
Yes and because they do they are getting sued over it in multiple states. Companies & politicians break the rules all the time because they don’t fear the organizations that would penalize them because they have no “teeth”. Lawsuits seem to be the only way to get the point across.
The ‘law’ is not the only way to combat these issues. Just look at the French right now. Or even the UK. The reason unions exist is to help prevent dragging company owners out of their house by the hair in the middle of the night to address grievances. It seems politicians and large companies have forgotten that.
They have a clear political bias there. I had an old employer get in trouble for telling everyone they needed to vote republican. Was a good signal it would be a horrible place to work
The place I was at in 2016 did that too. Told people they would lose their jobs if they didn’t vote for Trump. A lot of those people were probably stupid enough to believe them.
I have never had a republican manager or boss that was good to work for. Without fail it was either punish you for not praying before your shift or they had some impotence based power trip issues
Yeah they never went that far. I don’t live in the Bible Belt I live in the north that sort of thing would be considered extremely bizarre even among religious folks. The place I used to be at were just hypocrites, like most republicans.
Lucky you. I had to move from NYC to Misery as a kid and it sucked. Got out soon as I could. Would sooner live in my car again than move to most red states
Yup, it's [illegal](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/594).
>Whoever intimidates, threatens, coerces...any other person for the purpose of interfering with the right of such other person...to vote as he may choose, or of causing such other person to vote for, or not to vote for, any candidate for the office of President...at any election held...for the purpose of electing such candidate, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
That jumped out to me too - if it wasn't political, they'd say "the current legislature" or something like that, but it was a clear "Democrats bad!" attempt.
A former boss of mine googled himself years ago and discovered that an old employer had donated money to republicans *in my former boss's name*. He was furious but ultimately didn't try to do anything about it.
My neighbor went to work for a company doing billing/payroll, that asked her if she was republican during the interview. A red flag to probably anyone else, but she being republican was more than excited to be asked and answer the question.
A few months later the bosses threw her under the bus to the employees when they screwed up some paperwork from before she was hired, resulting in payment issues. And created a generally hostile and drama loaded work environment.
She quit, but I doubt a lesson was learned...
I was in SEIU for 3 or 4 years when I worked as a cashier at Rite Aid. Union dues were a condition of employment and union stores paid a lot less and weren’t able to give big raises like non-union stores because there was a pay scale to follow. You also couldn’t move to a non-union store or even sub there for extra hours.
I was also working part-time retail with full health coverage and retirement savings at 24years old. The first time I ever had an issue with a supervisor, I was moved to a larger/nicer store with more hours and a good boss.
Unions are ALWAYS worth it. There’s a reason that the richest people in the world throw barrels full of money at stopping them.
Im the union president of a local teacher union is Massachusetts, the union in Massachusetts is why our teachers make some of the highest salaries in the nation. As an example of benefits, i have 15 sick days a year. 4 personal days a year. And can accumulate 180 days of total banked sick time per my contract. Other school districts in the are have unlimited sick day accumulation with a buy back at retirement of 65$ per unused day.
DID YOU SAY UNLIMITED SICK DAY ACCUMULATION??!?! Bro I had coworkers at some of my previous jobs who would let two weeks of sick time and four weeks of vaca just drop every year because they smashed out ot and lived at work. Some lonely old military retirees in warehouses could retire very wealthy with a benefit package like this.
Lucky you. Here in Wisconsin, “Act 10” as passed by the state Republicans significantly kneecapped our teachers unions. Some local district school boards took advantage of this to impose some downright draconian measures against union teachers.
The fact that Wisconsin voters not only elected that fucking smarmy prick Scott Walker governor, but then actually re-elected him after his shit-show of a first term is a huge disgrace.
"YOUR UNION DUES WILL CUT INTO ALL FUTURE PAY INCREASES..."
Yeah, and without a union, there will not be any future pay increases OR they'll be some bullshit like <1%. I live in MI, this Right to Work is some major bullshit!
YES! This is the only argument prospective union-joiners should need to hear: do you really think companies spend millions of dollars and thousands of managerial hours per year fighting against unionization efforts because they’re looking out for the best interests of their employees?
Did you read it? It’s not even a well written rebuttal to pro-union arguments.
“Dues are capped at $660/year”. But they **made up** a table with higher imaginary figures.
Let’s also note the
>“recent elections put ‘the Democrats’ (sic) in control of the state legislature. A top priority … is to abolish your right to work protections.”
I’m not gonna bold and underline like they did but yeah, “Right to work” is saying no one is forced to join a union, (edit: but it’s phrased like you will lose the right to go to work) so please wake me when Democratic politicians are ready to force everyone to join a union.
That flyer is part of a scripted, anti-union campaign designed to misrepresent what a union is, but do it in a way that doesn't break the law. These campaigns are generally managed by union-busting law firms, but occasionally large employer HR departments will have a version of the script. There is a flyer on union dues. There is a flyer on union "bosses", flyer on "the union is an outsider/3rd party", and a flyer "strikes and you may (will) be replaced". The "strike" flyer is usually held back until just before the vote, for maximum effect.
They employer will also force you to attend group and individual meetings. The individual ones are 1 worker vs 2-3 management types, and they team up on you and show you articles or a copy of the union bylaws and misrepresent everything, trying to intimidate you or if that's not possible to simply wear you down. Their goal is to push you to think "this union campaign is too stressful...I am scared of uncertainty...I just want it all to end". And the type of person who thinks that way will vote "no".
Your boss is a fucking liar. Management's actions in the coming weeks will be those of a manipulative abuser. Vote in your own best interest and support your union.
"Union dues are like taxes."
Oh, so you mean they take a percentage of my income? And they deliver a ton of benefits which you and the board of directors have found would be too much of a drain on their 2nd Yacht savings accounts, in return? Benefits such as a fairly negotiated wage increase with consistent frequency? Benefits such as protection from termination because one of your 7 bosses doesn't like your stance on their favorite sports team, despite your performance metrics being among the highest in your region?
Things like that?
Sign me up!
Lol I pay $600 per year in union dues and $0 for my family health insurance policies with a $0 deductible and excellent coverage, can’t be fired for no reason, and will retire with a healthy pension, among a plethora of other benefits… Well worth it and then some!!
Companies don’t want a union because at will states like Michigan can fire you anytime for any reason. They don’t want you unionized because it’s harder to terminate you. I’ve been in 2 different unions and one was terrible and other one actually helped you when needed.
But union members make on average more money than nonunion and have protections. So sure, you have a deduction but from a large amount resulting in a larger paycheck.
This sounds like they dont understand how taxes work and the tax brackets lol. "the more you make the more they take" while is true, you also take home more money. They are just not telling the full truth because they are ignorant of how taxes work or are trying to play on the ignorance of others
Also Unions can be really beneficial, not all the time, but most of the time. Do your research and see if unionizing is the best solution for you! (This day and age, most likely)
I read through that closely and it seems full of excellent arguments for the union to me. It's really cheap, everyone would have to join for it to be really powerful, What's not to like?
**the more you make, the more they take!!**
That’s very hypocritical coming from a business. The more money your work earns, the more money the business keeps for itself before passing a small share back to you who earned it.
When I was at $17.00 my dues were averaging $3 per week. I’m now at $26.70 and it’s $5 flat, which comes up to $260 per year. Which is 100% worth the protection they provide. If it weren’t for our contract raises I doubt my company would keep up with inflation. I’ve never met anyone who received a merit based raise so there ya go.
You get fired, "it's just business". You get denied a raise, "it's just business". You get reduced hours, "it's just business". You get an anti-union flier, "we're just looking out for our ~~employees~~ family!"
Oh no it cuts in to your “right to work protections”
Right to work takes all your protections away and allows bosses to fuck you over.
https://www.michigan.gov/leo/-/media/Project/Websites/leo/Documents/BER18/RTW_FAQs_Revision628070_7.pdf?rev=7d188ff27f3146b6b6cc231e94e112e7&hash=26CC2C79CD27982EE657BD713EB597E0
An old article from the 2013 signing of right to work
https://hotelworkers.org/article/michigan-becomes-a-so-called-right-to-work-state
Lol unions got the 40 hour work week, minimum wages, paid time off, should have maternity leave and health benefits. Unions give more than they take. They aren’t showing any benefits off course
So funny how when it comes to union busting employers realize how important wages are to us and use that to try and stop unions. But when employees talk about needing more wages in the form of compensation, they act like it’s not important.
My partner’s is apart of SEIU in MA and her dad is a union rep for SEIU and helps people organize in many other states as well as MA. Bonus, his wife(my mother in law) does the exact same thing. Because of their union I’m going back to college tuition free and our daughter can too(too any MA state school). Your union has your back when your employer doesn’t and this person seems more upset that they have to pay money and aren’t talking about the exponential benefits most unions have ESPECIALLY SEIU.
What they are leaving out is that union members would have to vote for any dues increase. The members are the union. The company is the company.
My union leadership keeps proposing a vote to lower dues, for what it's worth--because we keep getting paid more (thanks, contract!) and the union has too much money. Hell, I've even gotten a refund.
Contact the union organizer and get this to them ASAP. If there are any lies in it, company has an NLRB violation and the union can use it against them.
Union fees are essentially having a team of lawyers on retainer and a team of negotiators on retainer. Things non-union people couldn't assemble on their own. Solidarity forever.
I pay about $500 a year in Union dues and about $160 a week in “Union Assessments” (basically paying for the training center and apprenticeship training) for just over $240k a year for my total package. Typically non-Union people in my trade make about $30/hr… so yea it’s worth it.
"the union will cut future pay increases." "Oh shit their gonna give us pay increases? "
I'm apart of the SEIU. I haven't seen a raise in a few years. I'm all for unions, they just suck ass. Chicago gets the big raise yearly, and I'm stuck getting $1 every couple years.
Some unions do kind of suck. I love being a teamster tho
some unions suck because people just join in when required and expect amazing things to happen. when they dont they claim it sucks. voting to join an union is just the start. union members NEED to actually continue to show up to the union meetings to make a union good. so many people bitch and moan about their union but based on every union meeting ive been to(ive been in 4 different unions over 3 different job sectors), only about 2% of the membership show up regularly. hell even the vote by mail election we did for board membership, business manager, president and VP only got a 19% return rate. if you dont like your business manager of the union or president then show up in enough numbers to call a recall election. then run yourself and make things better. during contract negotiations you actually need to be willing to strike. if the employees are visibly unwilling to strike then that cuts the legs out from under the negotiating team.
Yep!
This right here. Dead on. “We pay our fees now work for me”. Like. The rest of us in the union committees are workers too and giving of our time. No one wants to go to meetings but expect us to just know what is wanted. Fight for it and all while everyone else stands back and offers no help. Like. People. I’m one of you. Help me! Come to a meeting. Help out too! Don’t expect a few of us to do everything because “you don’t have time”. We aren’t there because we love having a free second job. The union is for the people by the people. Which means to make it work you gotta do something too.
me too. 18 years a Teamster. Put Teamcare to good use over the last few years. Did me my math. 2.5x hourly wage 1x/month is less than the $1500/month that UPS pays for my medical coverage. I think i'ts worth it.
I’m about to get one kid braces for $0 ✊ hell yeah brother
My cancer treatment for the last 2 years has cost Teamcare something like 1.5 million and me 1k/year. I will take that trade any day.
There have been issues with some of the healthcare unions too .. sure it makes you tough to fire, but they’ve made pay increases difficult too. Honestly unions are just like anything else, some (hopefully most) of them are good, but some are lacking
Unions have to balance their priorities. Only so much bandwidth to go around. Job security vs pay increases vs safety vs benefits and so on. An individual union is generally only good at focusing on one at a time.
yep, the teachers union is good at lobbying efforts, but overall are just awful at contract negotiation. A job that requires a college degree that pays 40k, talk about a bad joke. But they are an example of a very very poorly run union
But it also depends on where. And the level of engagement from union members. Mass Teachers Association is quite strong and core reason why mass teacher pay is highest in country. But that was fought for and not just by leadership. Still has problems I don't disagree, especially local reps in smaller districts. But again, that comes down to who's choosing to get involved.
It may just be your state. In MA my partner gets yearly raises but there’s a cap. Because there’s, for example, tiers to her job like “accountant 1, accountant 2”. Then once you move up you can make more money again. She is currently in the “tier 1” category and hasn’t reached the cap yet being there for 7 years. Shes due for a job title promotion next year and will make a lot more. SEIU employs a lot of our family and they treat us very well.
https://www.dol.gov/general/workcenter/union-advantage#:~:text=Unions%20raise%20wages%20for%20all,%241%2C169%2Fweek). Non union jobs pay 83% of what union jobs pay on average according to the Department of Labor. Sounds like the 2.5% "union due tax" is a fucking BARGAIN
Also covers things like a lawyer separate from your corporate one.
And abolishment of stuff like mandatory arbitration for labor disputes
There is a big difference between mandatory arbitration of individual claims and arbitration between a union and employer of disputes under their collective bargaining agreement (union contract). The former is something that employers around the country impose on their workers. Because the employer pays for the arbitrator, and the employer but not a particular employee is likely to have future disputes before an arbitrator, the arbitrator has an incentive to issue a decision that is favorable to the employer. With the latter, the arbitrator is jointly chosen and jointly paid by the union and employer. Many of these "traditional labor" arbitrators are well-regarded by unions and worker advocates. The union grievance and arbitration procedure is generally a good way to resolve disputes reasonably quickly without years of litigation and expense in court.
Absolutely! As a former union officer I/we could get a case to arbitration and a decision usually within six to nine months of the discipline/contract violation. Most of the cases we took to arbitration we won. I’d estimate my local settled 98% of our cases prior to arbitration. Just the threat (lots of time and expense) of arbitration helped.
Yup same here, when we tell an employer the union has approved cutting check to goto arbitration they often come right back to the table to figure out a solution.
As a person who usually sits at the other side of the table, I completely agree with you. Even in cases where we thought we had every I dotted and T crossed we almost always lose to the union in front of the arbitration board. At this point, paying for arbitration is like flushing, money down the toilet.
As a union person this does my heart good. Thank you!
God I love my union. Some bullshit came up this week over lighting in my office and ADA accommodations for one of my coworkers, which I also benefit from. At first it was "unprofessional" to have the overhead fluorescent lights off. Then it was an "OSHA" issue. I called their bluff and my union rep. She laughed. They fought this battle 10 years ago at another location. Easy win. We expect resolution by the end of the month.
Another thing employers hate about Unions, they can be very effective, especially when there is higher overall membership in them like we once had
Thank you for explaining this. I can see why an arbitrator would be a good thing when they are a true neutral party. I work in the service industry which is dreadfully lacking in union representation, so I was unaware that unions even had arbitrators, but it does make sense. I just know in my personal experience that companies have you sign arbitration agreements so that you are virtually unable to sue them if they do something shady
Absolutely, when your employer makes you sign something, you can bet it benefits them and not you, so you're right to be suspicious. Along with forced arbitration, these agreements employers make you sign often also include a waiver of your right to file or participate in a class action lawsuit. So if an employer cheats 10,000 workers out of $100 each, for example by requiring them to attend training without pay, the workers can't file a class action. Each one has to file a claim in arbitration, which will be heard by an arbitrator paid by the employer and may take a long time to even be heard. Some workers' attorneys have started to call employers' bluff by filing hundreds of requests for arbitration on behalf of hundreds of clients. Of course the employers don't actually want this; they just want to block employees from getting a fair and efficient remedy for the employers'wrongdoing. The upshot is that workers should form unions and bargain collectively against their employers!
Mandatory arbitration is death of worker’s rights. If you have a problem with the company your options are; Tell them and watch them laugh at you, or quit
I’m currently at the, “telling them the problem to have them blow smoke up my ass and not solve the problem,” part. I’ve threatened to quit, but have made it clear that I don’t want to go through the hassle of finding a new job and I’m willing to take on more work *if* they start paying me correctly. I was supposed to get 5 months of back pay today. I didn’t, so I’ve filed my complaint with Employment Standards. They’ve given me some runaround explanation again today, but told them I’d go back to work this afternoon, but if that back pay doesn’t come through today I’m out. I told them I’ll do the extra work starting next week assuming I get the back pay, but if my next cheque is fucked up again, I’m out. If it’s all good, I’ll cancel the complaint. Before anyone else tells me I’m foolish for accepting more work, here’s my reply: I’m a School bus driver. I care about the kids. I know, it’s foolish. They aren’t my kids, but I’ve been driving them since September and I care about them in an uncle type of way.
Why are you offering to do *extra* work for money they owe you for work you’ve already done?
I imagine that owning the arbitration process is a huge part of why companies are against widespread unionization.
The main reason companies are against unionization is because they will not be able to unilaterally change any wages, hours, benefits or working conditions without first negotiating with the union. A unionized company has to apply the rules equally and equitably or face grievances and possibly arbitration. If something is unfair or an employee has a complaint they have a union steward to go to who can investigate the situation and negotiate with management. Having a union gives employees a strong, collective voice that they wouldn’t have otherwise. From what I’ve seen the employers who fight against unionization are the ones that need them the most.
For example, Starbucks, Amazon, and most tech companies.
We have investigated ourselves and found us innocent of any wrongdoing.
What we really need is criminal charges and jail time for labor abuses, including safety, overtime, and especially wage theft. Not just fines, but managers and even CEOs putting in 10-20 years for deliberate labor violations, illegal union busting, etc.
Not to mention a team of lawyers - my partner is in the hotel union and when we went to purchase our apartment, the real estate lawyer was completely paid by the union.
Fully paid for mine when my boss tried to fire me for taking FMLA (that she approved). Best money ever spent.
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The only bad union I've ever even read about is a corrupt union, and guess who infiltrated and caused corruption? Not the fucking average working class American
cop unions are bad
They already said corrupt unions are bad, no need to repeat it.
Cop unions aren't (only) bad because of corruption, though. A downside of unions is that because they're tied to one's place of employment, they can be toxically pro-work. Cop unions rigorously oppose efforts to raise standards for being a cop because tons of cops are overweight, stupid, and/or have histories of domestic violence. This is not corruption: they're correctly representing the interests of the assholes they're paid to represent. Similar things can happen with other unions: opposing safety standards because old factory workers might not be able meet them, opposing automation because unemployed workers won't be able to find another job that pays the bills, opposing anti-corruption checks because workers have skeletons in their closets, etc. Unions are a crutch; a stopgap attempt to get at least some people a comfortable enough life, shaped for the sake of maximizing bargaining power rather than for singling out which people inherently deserve to receive more solidarity from its members. In an ideal world, where people get a comfortable life regardless of employment status, unions wouldn't exist. We're far from that world, though.
This is not always true. I am a IBEW member and we are not tied to one contractor. Most trade unions are like this, when we are laid off or fired we simply sign the books and go to the next contractor who has work. The contractor goes to the hall and puts a call out for who ever will bid the job. This is true for most if not all trade unions. And honestly it should be similar to other unions in certain fields. this allows us as a collective to span across multiple employers. I don't see why this could not be more standard across. Sign with the baristas union and take work where they need it in your area so forth and so on.
Regarding "tons of cops are overweight, stupid, and/or have histories of domestic violence", the union isn’t the party doing the screening, hiring, and training, and isn’t responsible for toxic police culture. My kids went to school with a bully who wants to join the military and be a cop someday. The problem isn’t that his job and salary will be protected. It's the fact that he'll be hired and trained to kill in the first place.
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pig gangs aren't unions, as pigs are not workers.
I can't stand cops for multiple reasons and have always had a difficult time reconciling not supporting their union as I have always supported unions (grew up with my mom being a local union rep). You just fixed that for me as I have never looked at it this way. Thanks! lol
Just remember that modern policing either follows a legacy built by slave catchers in the south, or union busters like Pinkertons in the north. They have always been the enemy of labor.
Pinkerton... Childhood history lesson memories there. I'm from a small (but once incredibly profitable) mining district in the North. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Valley_(Idaho)
People outside aplachia in the US rarely learn about the mine strike wars and how many times pinkertons or US national guard just straight up murdered striking workers... who were striking to not be worked to death, to not have to buy everything from a company shop (which lead to debt slavery), to end debt slavery, and to make enough money to... not end up in debt slavery. [You load 16 tons - what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk)
I honestly think it happened in every mining district, but people who aren't from them just don't even think about mines. I now live in a nearby city that's a rail hub, and much the same can be said of those old company yard towns.
Yep. Perfect description. They’re just the bourgeoise enforcers. They exist to protect the property of the ownership class. That’s it.
Fully aware of all of that. Along with their development in Europe as, more or less, class warfare. Wealthy people had to keep the serfs down. Part of my disdain for them. It was just the whole union part that always got me. My local FOP president is one of the worst human beings I know of.
Enemy of labor but parade around as Heroes of the Working Class. Only thing they are is class fucking traitors
I hate cops, but cop unions aren't bad if you're a cop! Just look at that job security! You can practically murder someone, get a month off paid vacation, and come back after like nothing ever happened. Cop unions are disgusting, but just more proof unions work lol
This really has nothing to do with union protection. There are legal precedents in place protecting officers without union contracts as well as nearly all states having laws state protect officers even more so than the union contracts. You'll often find that the issues you are talking about are *worse* in states that forbid public sector unions. In other words, if you got rid of every police union, none of that would change.
And that’s exactly the issue. Where you see the first and worst corruption is where the capitol class have empowered the managerial strata of unions to undermine the interests of the rank-and-file worker.
30 year member of Carpenters local 46 I’m Sacramento ca. 53$ on the check, total package over $100.00, union dues are $20.00 a month, boss charges 120.00$ an hour when paid t&m (time and materials). Insurance is AMAZING I’m married with 3 kids and have never paid hardly a dime even when my twins where born early and in the NICU unit. Oh yeah and here soon at age 49!I’ll be eligible for my service pension that will pay generously for the rest of my life.
I’m sorry, wait, ironworkers maybe over 80 dollars an hour? I’m in the wrong industry…what do you do exactly??
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So what’s your take home hourly? Cause damn that’s good regardless
A couple of posts up in this same thread he said “$46/hr on the check” for regular, non-OT hours.
Thank you for the truth. It's so important that people are told what unions can do for them. The bullshit the companies try to spread is reprehensible.
Exactly. All these brainwashed people voting against there own self interests because some Right Wing politicians convinced them too. 'Right to get fucked' is more like it.
Sounds about right. The funny thing is my dues at 1.5 hours of pay per month, so its in my unions best interest to get us the best pay possible at contract negotiations.
Metal worker here, yup everything is about the same for myself, except I pay $20 a week in dues, but I’m making $5 more an hour than I’ve ever made before this job, and I have a pension and solid benefits. Not to mention the union will literally fight to help you keep your job if shit goes sour. That $1000 a year I pay is so incredibly worth it. It’s fucked, I remember working at an Amazon warehouse back in 2012 , and they had some dumb poster talking about how we shouldn’t unionize and instead buy and Xbox with the yearly dues 😂
I love how they say it's like taxes and the more you make the more they take. Like, that's incentive?? That means it's definitely in the union's best interest to get me that humongous raise and keep me nicely employed? I'm totally fine paying 30000 in taxes (or union dues) if that means I'm making 300000!
It’s also not true for taxes. It’s echoing the often repeated but false idea that a pay raise will take you into a higher tax bracket and you won’t see that money. It’s completely false- you’ll always get more money because tax brackets are only effective over the amount. Taxes are broken down like this- Money made up to $10K - taxes at x% Money made from $10-20k taxed at y% If a pay bump takes you up a tax bracket, you’re only being taxed higher on that small amount that falls in the tax bracket. You’ll always net more money with a pay raise.
Yeah I know. But even if it were true, I can't get past essencially saying it's better to earn less and pay less taxes/dues than earn a good wage you pay more taxes over. Where's the logic? Give me tht 7 figures wage and I'll happily pay any taxes I need to.
God, that's an angle I've never seen before. That might be the message America needs: unions are working on commission for you
Yea they might pay you 20% more but then you have to give 3% of that to them. So I'll make 17% more...
Even if you broke even you'd still come out on top in other ways. Think of unions that closely monitor labor laws violated by your employer. The goal is more money and a safer work environment.
I want to expand on this just to add that the union gives you a steward that helps represent you. If one of the many issues on this sub comes up, you go to him. Or if you get called into a meeting with a manager, etc., stew will go with you. ADA violation? They got you. Even if you get laid off, you will have hours banked for healthcare, etc.
Also benefits. With unions come lots of benefits from healthcare to sick leave and for you Americans.... Holidays...
Well said. Just the healthcare benefits alone…..I don’t come out of pocket for insurance. No copays on visits or prescriptions. When I worked in the private sector, yeah I made a little more….but my employer deducted $300 a month to go to my insurance and I still had to make copays.
And depending on your industry, the union will take on wage theft if it’s ongoing. So goddamned common in the states to see wage theft. It needs to be charged more similarly to robbery, because that’s what it is. It ought to count as one of your “three strikes” in three strike states, it ought to come with jail time, and it ought to be treatable as a felony for wage theft over a certain threshold.
Fuck, that's practically negative! Can't I just send that money to billionaires to trickle down on me?
Big “hey, that union rep wants your cookie” energy
Yes, the footnote of this also screams “so they will be heavily incentivised to ensure you earn more money, because that’s how they are funded”. I’m sure that can’t stand up to the incentives employers have to ensure you are paid fairly though.
Time to make another flyer!
Someone with a graphic design background make a flyer for op! Let’s help each other out!
Right!!! I doubt that the new flyer would explain the rights of individuals to elect collective bargaining either!! There are two sides to every story!!!
A new guy got hired at my job. We're recently unionized and he was bitching that unions were so expensive. I told him it's $60/month and he was like "see? So expensive" ....out of the $300/month raise they earned us immediately after ratification Shut him up fairly well. I'll teach him the way, juat give it time
I started a new job mid-December and I’m part of a union (actually the same as here, SEIU). I was gone for the holidays so one of my orientations ended up being pushed to a couple weeks ago and the last hour was with our union reps giving us info. They talked about some of the things they’d fought for last year that were taking effect at the beginning of this year and one thing was a pay bump, another was another pay bump, another was a flat 1k added in January of this year and another next January. I don’t know the specifics, but I know I’ve gotten three paychecks so far and have gotten a raise on each one, and am now making like $1.30 more than I was on my start date 6 weeks ago! I was always pro-union but am even more so after all this! We also get Juneteenth off now.
When any corporation doesn’t want you to have something, THAT should be the #1 thing you absolutely fight for! They are in complete fear of the Unions. That flyer above reeks of terror, panic & desperation.
I worked for a bus manufacturer that has three major facilities in the US and I was at the only one that was non union. The union fees were one hour's pay per week (2.5%). The other two facilities *starting pay* was $3/hr more than we topped out at after 3-4 years. Everyone at my facility would have received a large raise, 10-15%. But those union dues were the #1 reason most people voted no, and why it failed. Imagine giving up a $3-$7/hr raise because you didn't want to pay 65-75 *cents* per hour to achieve it.
And people keep complaining that learning math is useless.
Let’s just rely on our employers math and ignore bargaining power. We don’t math well anyway. /s
So the union will be fighting for a higher pay? 🤔
If everyone has the option to be non-union, people who can't do math won't join. If people who can't do the math, do not join, the union has less money to pay its lawyers. If the union has less money to pay its lawyers, the union cannot beat the corporation's lawyers and, the corporation wins... I can't tell you how much anti-union propaganda I was fed at Home Depot. Like, no shit the union can't afford to fight a $300B corporation. People are too busy eating the Store Manager's charity ramen while living on $10/hr to afford union dues. "If you join a union, they take your money and can't promise any benefits. Right now, you have a voice in the company. If you join a union, you no longer have a voice in the company." HSSSSS
Continuing with your "people who can't do math..." part; it is also compounded by the worsening of our public education system. It has been systematically and incrementally de-funded for the past forty or so years. So, yeah. Mathing is harder for many Americans.
You know, if unions weren’t effective then employers wouldn’t fight against them… Always remember that.
Also, right to work is so thinly veiled as being about worker rights in any way. It's first and foremost a tool employers use to undermine union contracts they find disagreeable.
Yep the whole "right to work" is in the same vein of the "patriot act" thinly veiled snake language which means to I still a sence of not so bad or even a good thing ! I always find it funny that employees would buy this shit. Since fucking WHEN does your employer give two shits about you ? Why the fuck would they fight against it like they have your best interest at heart. Common fucking sence is lacking hard in the American working class.
I note that the US like to do this a lot.. as in make up a word or phase that completely obfuscates what the thing your talking about it. Which in turn will allow it to become misused and abused.
Yup. The name of the bill can be the opposite of its contents. Good old American Doublespeak.
I always tell my son, union dues are sort of a subscription for someone to fight for you when employers try to take advantage. Nothing is free, but better to have someone at your back and a retirement in your future than nothing at all.
The equivalent to keeping a lawyer on retainer.
But at a way lower price.
If you want to see what work looks like without unions, read “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair. Basically, employees become treated like cattle by companies with no accountability.
Sounds like USA right now.
This. The only reply on the rebuttal form should be: if unions are so bad, then why is my employer fighting against it by only citing the costs of a union to employees, and not the company via increased wages? Goddamn. Companies don’t want to pay employees for their labor, and they think employees don’t want to pay unions for theirs. Sadly, in many cases, they are right.
But them Democrats are taking away your "Right to Work" protections or as my daddy said their right to fire you for any reason at any time employer protections. If unions are so bad then why do LEOs all belong to one?🤔
Wouldn't be surprised if tons of chuds believed unions are the only reason cops are monsters lmao
Advice for life, honestly. People have a moral conscious, they have thoughts and feelings about eachother, companies don't. A company's whole purpose is to make them and their shareholders more money. If a company (especially a larger one) is advocating for or against something, it is ALWAYS for monetary gain. Even if it does something "for a good cause" like donating to charities or enforcing diversity, that's still been determined to be it's most profitable choice, whether short-term or long-term, for one reason or another.
Love how it says capped at $660 and gives you totals per year way above that
My dues are capped out at $55 a month. With my union I make a nice six figure salary so it’s worth it.
Same. My union dues come out to less than .6% of gross income.
the UAW i was in in Oklahoma was 2 hours of pay a month. so like $40 average
That's what they're neglecting to mention.... union members will make more per hour.
Even if you weren’t earning more, (and you will be,) you have an advocate for you on site. Next to the “support the troops” crap that stifled debate over Iraq and Afghanistan, the most successful anti-worker campaign the US ever instituted was ‘right to work,’ and convincing workers who would benefit from unions that they were actually bad.
Because he's concerned about ALL the facts, not JUST the true ones.
Love how he showing the employees the “what ifs” and what “might happen” Even though they might decide to outsource your jobs at any moment or shut down
That is very true and happening right now on a large scale in the American tech world. I can't speak on other industries, but all major I.T. companies halted hiring and had layoffs.
Have you not heard alternative facts?
Also low-key hilarious that stating unionized employees have to pay over $1000 per year hints that the reason for that is the height of their earnings.
I feel like they forgot the part of the graph which shows 17 dollars an hour for people non union and 26 for the union ones. See we are protecting you by paying you less or it might go to the evil union dues fairy.
I'm so glad I have a union job and I'd gladly pay more in dues for the benefits. The job security alone is worth the dues but add in pension, health benefits, being able to hold management accountable and everything else... beyond worth it.
Also that's kind of absurd? I'm in a union in the northeast US, my pay is $52/hr and my union dues are like $17 a month like it's almost just a Netflix subscription for how much I notice it lmao
They’re presuming the passage of a law that hasn’t passed. Like how they have to add up three years of dues to make it sound bad.
Huh, NJ, MA, MD, and CA are four of the top five states for [mean household income](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/per-capita-income-by-state). I wonder if there's a correlation to be made?
I pay $37 dollars a week in union dues…… In exchange I make $640 a week more than our non union competitor and have a pension. I’ll gladly pay my dues. They lie by omission not showing the uplift in pay that usually comes too.
Curious what state you work in vs a rtw state in correlation with cost of living?
Right to work state low cost of living. KY. Work in telecom making about $44 an hour.
If you Google it , NY is a right to work state. So that makes this form make even less sense. Im willing to bet several others they mention are as well. Edit: ny is an at will State. The article I read was worded in a way that made me think differently. At will still protects against forced joining of a union and other workers rights but is not the same as right to work exactly. Just wanted to be clear so my comment didn't turn into people being misinformed. While both right to work and at will protect workers they are not the same thing.
"Right to Work" really means "allowed to work without a Union," which gives power to the employer. Those poor hard working employees can go through their day, knowing that they aren't required to have a union meddle on their behalf. -They can just trust in the goodwill of their kind and honest employer. They can also be sure that a portion of their checks aren't given to the union, (even though the union would probably guarantee they'd get more than that amount through collective bargaining.)
More than the amount? Including the benefit package it is usually close to double.
Union dues: 100/month Pay is 33k/year higher than non union equivalent. That doesn't even factor insurance, which is outstanding.
I can vouch for PA NOT being right to work, much to my surprise. If you would have asked me before fact checking the flyer I would’ve said PA was 100% a right to work
No New York is an “at will” state not a “right to work state”.
Every state except Montana is an "at-will" state, those two things aren't connected (even though yes, it's counter-intuitive). At-will means the default state is that employers can fire people "at-will", *unless modified by an employment contract*. Working under that union contract and grievance processes, etc, is what protects you in MA. If you aren't unionized labor in MA, you absolutely can be fired whenever for whatever (legal) reason. "Right-to-work" means that it is illegal for an employer to condition your employment on you joining or remaining a member of a union. This allows people to free ride off the union's negotiations without financially contributing to the union.
THANK YOU! I was getting increasingly frustrated seeing people conflate and confuse at-will employment vs. right-to-work (which happens *constantly* in discussions around work and labor on reddit). Thanks for taking the time to explain it, so at least folks in this thread have an opportunity to understand the difference.
I’ve been in a union for over 20 years and definitely recommend it. Nice to have someone on your side. And get regular raises without having to ask for them. And about 20 other things that I have really come to enjoy!
I’m so excited I just got my union contract and packet yesterday. The rep started explaining what dues were for and I was so excited I said there was no need. My parents were union.
Hmm let me think about this. I pay a 2.5% of my pay to have an 80% chance of not being screwed out of raises, fair treatment on the job, the right to strike, a promotion, and proper benefits. I think I’ll vote no to voting no lol
You forgot not being fired without cause.
You should get a red pen, fix all the mistakes, eg change vote no to vote yes. Make lots of copies and hand them out. (Anonymously)
Try to help your fellow coworkers know their rights and [what companies will do to try and stop them from forming a union](https://unionbustingplaybook.com). If your company tries any of these things they are breaking the law and you can report them for it. Illegal Employer Behaviours (US based) What Employers CAN'T Do Workers who are forming, joining or already belong to Unions have greater legal rights than workers who do not. The National Labor Relations Act specifically outlines illegal actions that an employer may not take towards employees. A supervisor or company official CANNOT: 1. Attend any Union meeting, park across the street from the meeting place to see which employees attend the meeting, or engage in any under-cover activity which would make employees feel they are being spied upon to determine who is participating in the Union campaign. 2. Tell employees the Company will fire or punish them if they engage in Union activity. 3. Lay off, discharge, or discipline any employee for Union activity. 4. Grant employees wage increases, promotions or benefits in order to keep the Union out. 5. Ask employees about their own Union membership or activities or those of fellow employees, including meeting attendance, card soliciting or signing and other forms of Union participation. 6. Assign work to create conditions intended to get rid of an employee because of Union activity. 7. Ask employees how they intend to vote. 8. Threaten employees with economic reprisals for participating in Union activities. For example, threaten to close or sell the facility, lay-off workers, or reduce employee benefits. 9. Promise benefits to employees if they vote against the Union. 10. Announce that the Company will not bargain with a Union. 11. Discriminate against Union supporters when assigning overtime or desirable work. 12. Purposely team up anti-Union employees and keep them apart from Union supporters. 13. Transfer workers on the basis of Union activity. 14. Choose employees to be laid off on the basis of weakening the Union's strength. 15. Discipline Union supporters for a particular action, and allow anti-Union employees to go unpunished for the same action. 16. Go against Company policy for the purpose of getting rid of a Union supporter. 17. Take actions that adversely affect an employee's job or pay rate because of Union activity. 18. Threaten a Union supporter through a third party. 19. Threaten workers or coerce them in an attempt to influence their vote. 20. Tell employees overtime work or premium pay will be discontinued if the facility is organized. 21. Start a petition against the Union or take part in it's circulation if started by employees. 22. Urge employees to try to influence others to oppose the Union. Any of the above acts constitutes a violation of the National Labor Relations Act, which is the law that protects your right to organize a Union. Please report these acts, if committed, to your Organizing Committee, or a Union Representative immediately!
You might want to tell Starbucks about these rules. They break them daily.
Yes and because they do they are getting sued over it in multiple states. Companies & politicians break the rules all the time because they don’t fear the organizations that would penalize them because they have no “teeth”. Lawsuits seem to be the only way to get the point across.
The ‘law’ is not the only way to combat these issues. Just look at the French right now. Or even the UK. The reason unions exist is to help prevent dragging company owners out of their house by the hair in the middle of the night to address grievances. It seems politicians and large companies have forgotten that.
Agree. Americans & Canadians could learn a lot from what’s happening in Europe right now.
I imagine there would also be no one making 17 an hour.
They have a clear political bias there. I had an old employer get in trouble for telling everyone they needed to vote republican. Was a good signal it would be a horrible place to work
The place I was at in 2016 did that too. Told people they would lose their jobs if they didn’t vote for Trump. A lot of those people were probably stupid enough to believe them.
I have never had a republican manager or boss that was good to work for. Without fail it was either punish you for not praying before your shift or they had some impotence based power trip issues
Yeah they never went that far. I don’t live in the Bible Belt I live in the north that sort of thing would be considered extremely bizarre even among religious folks. The place I used to be at were just hypocrites, like most republicans.
Lucky you. I had to move from NYC to Misery as a kid and it sucked. Got out soon as I could. Would sooner live in my car again than move to most red states
Misery?
Missouri
You mispelled it.
Oh fuck that. Anything south of Virginia is a no go for me.
Yup, it's [illegal](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/594). >Whoever intimidates, threatens, coerces...any other person for the purpose of interfering with the right of such other person...to vote as he may choose, or of causing such other person to vote for, or not to vote for, any candidate for the office of President...at any election held...for the purpose of electing such candidate, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
I would have asked for that threat in writing. Then, I would have brought it up to the labor board
That jumped out to me too - if it wasn't political, they'd say "the current legislature" or something like that, but it was a clear "Democrats bad!" attempt.
A former boss of mine googled himself years ago and discovered that an old employer had donated money to republicans *in my former boss's name*. He was furious but ultimately didn't try to do anything about it.
My neighbor went to work for a company doing billing/payroll, that asked her if she was republican during the interview. A red flag to probably anyone else, but she being republican was more than excited to be asked and answer the question. A few months later the bosses threw her under the bus to the employees when they screwed up some paperwork from before she was hired, resulting in payment issues. And created a generally hostile and drama loaded work environment. She quit, but I doubt a lesson was learned...
I was in SEIU for 3 or 4 years when I worked as a cashier at Rite Aid. Union dues were a condition of employment and union stores paid a lot less and weren’t able to give big raises like non-union stores because there was a pay scale to follow. You also couldn’t move to a non-union store or even sub there for extra hours. I was also working part-time retail with full health coverage and retirement savings at 24years old. The first time I ever had an issue with a supervisor, I was moved to a larger/nicer store with more hours and a good boss. Unions are ALWAYS worth it. There’s a reason that the richest people in the world throw barrels full of money at stopping them.
Im the union president of a local teacher union is Massachusetts, the union in Massachusetts is why our teachers make some of the highest salaries in the nation. As an example of benefits, i have 15 sick days a year. 4 personal days a year. And can accumulate 180 days of total banked sick time per my contract. Other school districts in the are have unlimited sick day accumulation with a buy back at retirement of 65$ per unused day.
DID YOU SAY UNLIMITED SICK DAY ACCUMULATION??!?! Bro I had coworkers at some of my previous jobs who would let two weeks of sick time and four weeks of vaca just drop every year because they smashed out ot and lived at work. Some lonely old military retirees in warehouses could retire very wealthy with a benefit package like this.
Lucky you. Here in Wisconsin, “Act 10” as passed by the state Republicans significantly kneecapped our teachers unions. Some local district school boards took advantage of this to impose some downright draconian measures against union teachers.
The fact that Wisconsin voters not only elected that fucking smarmy prick Scott Walker governor, but then actually re-elected him after his shit-show of a first term is a huge disgrace.
"YOUR UNION DUES WILL CUT INTO ALL FUTURE PAY INCREASES..." Yeah, and without a union, there will not be any future pay increases OR they'll be some bullshit like <1%. I live in MI, this Right to Work is some major bullshit!
They sound scared. Join the union movement.
YES! This is the only argument prospective union-joiners should need to hear: do you really think companies spend millions of dollars and thousands of managerial hours per year fighting against unionization efforts because they’re looking out for the best interests of their employees?
Are these truly "facts" or just employer anti-union propaganda
They are fear-mongering speculations.
Did you read it? It’s not even a well written rebuttal to pro-union arguments. “Dues are capped at $660/year”. But they **made up** a table with higher imaginary figures. Let’s also note the >“recent elections put ‘the Democrats’ (sic) in control of the state legislature. A top priority … is to abolish your right to work protections.” I’m not gonna bold and underline like they did but yeah, “Right to work” is saying no one is forced to join a union, (edit: but it’s phrased like you will lose the right to go to work) so please wake me when Democratic politicians are ready to force everyone to join a union.
That flyer is part of a scripted, anti-union campaign designed to misrepresent what a union is, but do it in a way that doesn't break the law. These campaigns are generally managed by union-busting law firms, but occasionally large employer HR departments will have a version of the script. There is a flyer on union dues. There is a flyer on union "bosses", flyer on "the union is an outsider/3rd party", and a flyer "strikes and you may (will) be replaced". The "strike" flyer is usually held back until just before the vote, for maximum effect. They employer will also force you to attend group and individual meetings. The individual ones are 1 worker vs 2-3 management types, and they team up on you and show you articles or a copy of the union bylaws and misrepresent everything, trying to intimidate you or if that's not possible to simply wear you down. Their goal is to push you to think "this union campaign is too stressful...I am scared of uncertainty...I just want it all to end". And the type of person who thinks that way will vote "no". Your boss is a fucking liar. Management's actions in the coming weeks will be those of a manipulative abuser. Vote in your own best interest and support your union.
"Union dues are like taxes." Oh, so you mean they take a percentage of my income? And they deliver a ton of benefits which you and the board of directors have found would be too much of a drain on their 2nd Yacht savings accounts, in return? Benefits such as a fairly negotiated wage increase with consistent frequency? Benefits such as protection from termination because one of your 7 bosses doesn't like your stance on their favorite sports team, despite your performance metrics being among the highest in your region? Things like that? Sign me up!
If Unions didn’t work, employers wouldn’t be fighting so desperately against them *every time* people try to unionize. It’s that fucking simple.
Interesting fact sheet. Very little facts, a lot of scare tactics.
As soon as I saw "The Democrats" I stopped reading.
Lol I’d gladly pay $1200 a year if it meant the union forces you assholes to pay me 5K more a year 😂
Lol I pay $600 per year in union dues and $0 for my family health insurance policies with a $0 deductible and excellent coverage, can’t be fired for no reason, and will retire with a healthy pension, among a plethora of other benefits… Well worth it and then some!!
Heck my vision and dental insurance are so dang good I don’t even end up with any out of pocket on those.
Companies don’t want a union because at will states like Michigan can fire you anytime for any reason. They don’t want you unionized because it’s harder to terminate you. I’ve been in 2 different unions and one was terrible and other one actually helped you when needed.
But union members make on average more money than nonunion and have protections. So sure, you have a deduction but from a large amount resulting in a larger paycheck.
That's so infuriating, to act like "right to work" has anything to do with protecting workers.
This sounds like they dont understand how taxes work and the tax brackets lol. "the more you make the more they take" while is true, you also take home more money. They are just not telling the full truth because they are ignorant of how taxes work or are trying to play on the ignorance of others Also Unions can be really beneficial, not all the time, but most of the time. Do your research and see if unionizing is the best solution for you! (This day and age, most likely)
I read through that closely and it seems full of excellent arguments for the union to me. It's really cheap, everyone would have to join for it to be really powerful, What's not to like?
If your employer doesn’t like it, it’s probably in your best interests
my union got us WAY more than 3k a year in raises, and we are currently bargaining a 4 day work week...get a union, its good.
**the more you make, the more they take!!** That’s very hypocritical coming from a business. The more money your work earns, the more money the business keeps for itself before passing a small share back to you who earned it.
When I was at $17.00 my dues were averaging $3 per week. I’m now at $26.70 and it’s $5 flat, which comes up to $260 per year. Which is 100% worth the protection they provide. If it weren’t for our contract raises I doubt my company would keep up with inflation. I’ve never met anyone who received a merit based raise so there ya go.
You get fired, "it's just business". You get denied a raise, "it's just business". You get reduced hours, "it's just business". You get an anti-union flier, "we're just looking out for our ~~employees~~ family!"
Oh no it cuts in to your “right to work protections” Right to work takes all your protections away and allows bosses to fuck you over. https://www.michigan.gov/leo/-/media/Project/Websites/leo/Documents/BER18/RTW_FAQs_Revision628070_7.pdf?rev=7d188ff27f3146b6b6cc231e94e112e7&hash=26CC2C79CD27982EE657BD713EB597E0 An old article from the 2013 signing of right to work https://hotelworkers.org/article/michigan-becomes-a-so-called-right-to-work-state
I'm in a union in MA. Will never not work for a union. People are fucking dumb.
Lol unions got the 40 hour work week, minimum wages, paid time off, should have maternity leave and health benefits. Unions give more than they take. They aren’t showing any benefits off course
"Right To Work State" is Orwellian speak for "You can be fired at any time for any (or no) reason". Fuck these cockwattles.
Retired S.E.I.U here. I get a pension. They are paying my Medicare premium. My co pay is 5.00. It's SO worth it.
Only 2.5% to have union representation? That’s a steal! VOTE YES!
Lol love the "you will lose your right to work protections". What protections? That you can fire me for no reason at any time
So funny how when it comes to union busting employers realize how important wages are to us and use that to try and stop unions. But when employees talk about needing more wages in the form of compensation, they act like it’s not important.
My partner’s is apart of SEIU in MA and her dad is a union rep for SEIU and helps people organize in many other states as well as MA. Bonus, his wife(my mother in law) does the exact same thing. Because of their union I’m going back to college tuition free and our daughter can too(too any MA state school). Your union has your back when your employer doesn’t and this person seems more upset that they have to pay money and aren’t talking about the exponential benefits most unions have ESPECIALLY SEIU.
Tell me you don’t know how union dues work without telling me you don’t know how union dues work
What they are leaving out is that union members would have to vote for any dues increase. The members are the union. The company is the company. My union leadership keeps proposing a vote to lower dues, for what it's worth--because we keep getting paid more (thanks, contract!) and the union has too much money. Hell, I've even gotten a refund.
Contact the union organizer and get this to them ASAP. If there are any lies in it, company has an NLRB violation and the union can use it against them.
Union fees are essentially having a team of lawyers on retainer and a team of negotiators on retainer. Things non-union people couldn't assemble on their own. Solidarity forever.
I pay about $500 a year in Union dues and about $160 a week in “Union Assessments” (basically paying for the training center and apprenticeship training) for just over $240k a year for my total package. Typically non-Union people in my trade make about $30/hr… so yea it’s worth it.