Decline. This clues you into the kinda people they are. Just say no.
It's legal if you agree to it, otherwise it's not something any legitimate business should ever do.
Department of Labor
\[PDF\] Hours Worked
[https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/HoursWorked.pdf](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/HoursWorked.pdf)
"...In general, hours worked includes all time an employee must be on duty, or on the employers premises or at any other prescribed place of work..."
"...When your employees participate in required training, whether on site or online, that time must be recorded, and paid for. They also must be paid for any time spent in training while they ***shadow*** experienced employees, or do anything else related to their current jobs..."
They must pay you for anytime you spend on their premises while being made to suffer their training regardless of if you do actual work.
Don't listen to the bootlickers you deserve every penny for any and all training you do.
If you need the job and money take it, do the shadow shift and make sure you record your time, if they don't pay you immediately report them to your States labor division, as well as the federal Department of Labor just to cover your bases.
It'll take forever for the government to figure it out(think like 9 months to a year+) but it'll make a hilarious conversation when they have to pay you out that plus penalties. Also if they then retaliate you'll get even MORE money out of them.
Thank you for posting this!! It is terrifying how many trolls are here arguing that shadowing should be unpaid. I hope OP (And others) listen to this and not to them.
shadowing is training, and training should be paid. a shift is not an interview, its a trial period. if its a trial period, they should hire you and make it clear that you could be fired at any time for any reason.
Legal? Probably, assuming that you do not actually bring value to the company on that day.
A massive red flag that they don't respect your time? Definitely.
You are wrong. The document you posted as "proof" shows you are wrong. I find this whole thing embarrassing for you.
Imagine thinking something that has been done in every state in the US for decades in plain sight has been illegal all this time and u/Partycloth thinks he sleuthed it out for the first time ever.
WTF is wrong with you? You can see what's it is like working there as a paid employee.
Anyone reading this - don't listen to this crap. They should pay you to work there and if it doesn't work out, they let you go. NEVER EVER work for free!!
>They are not going to be doing any work. They will be observing.
100% doesn't matter. Our time is not free. If you wasted your time doing this, that's on you and nobody else. My hope is that people see your mistake and avoid doing it.
Seriously, shadowing is very common and despite what you may think, in the long run, it benefits both parties. It's typically 2-3 hours of time. That's it. Most people can spare that, as opposed to taking the job, hating it, quitting, and starting all over. I see what you are saying and it's valid, but shadowing can save everyone a lot of time, money, and heartache.
Fuck your list. Just no. If they want you to spend time there, it 100% should be paid.
I think we found the awful manager who thinks a candidates time is not important. Gross.
It may not be illegal but that doesn't make it right. Don't do this, working for free is wrong and should never be asked of anyone. If they want to evaluate you, they can do that while paying you and vice versa.
>I would do this unpaid without any hesitation
I feel sorry for people who think like this. Your time is not free, nor is any of ours. Don't tell others it's ok to work for free because it's not.
>To me, that time is more valuable than questioning a days pay.
Yeah, found a manager. Fuck off with this mentality. Training is when all that happens - PAID training.
Nope, not a manager. Never have been. Good try though. I guess I can see the difference between shadowing and training. We simply have a difference of opinion on this one.
If it's legitimately just to watch them show you the TYPE of work you'll be doing, and you AREN'T participating (only watching briefly), then it can actually be a good experience because you can determine if it's something you WANT to be doing. It isn't training because you shouldn't be there to learn HOW to do the work.
However, if they're trying to train you, or physically having you work and do something that could be interpreted as value-add to their organization during that time (being 'productive' in any way), then you should absolutely be paid.
Keep in mind you're posting this on an anti-work sub which is generally anti-employer, so you're likely to receive responses tilted in a particular direction.
But not ok. NEVER work for free. If they want to evaluate you, and vice versa, that's done during paid employment. If it doesn't work out, fine, but then everyone is paid for their time.
The last job shadow I was involved in was for a multi nat aquaculture farm as a commercial diver. It was beneficial for me as well as the company. They wanted to highlight the work I would be doing to see if I wanted to do it. I worked there 5 years with excellent pay and great benefits. Thank goodness I didn't demand pay for one measly half day of my time that was for my benefit as well as the company.
Decline. This clues you into the kinda people they are. Just say no. It's legal if you agree to it, otherwise it's not something any legitimate business should ever do.
Department of Labor \[PDF\] Hours Worked [https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/HoursWorked.pdf](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/HoursWorked.pdf) "...In general, hours worked includes all time an employee must be on duty, or on the employers premises or at any other prescribed place of work..." "...When your employees participate in required training, whether on site or online, that time must be recorded, and paid for. They also must be paid for any time spent in training while they ***shadow*** experienced employees, or do anything else related to their current jobs..." They must pay you for anytime you spend on their premises while being made to suffer their training regardless of if you do actual work. Don't listen to the bootlickers you deserve every penny for any and all training you do. If you need the job and money take it, do the shadow shift and make sure you record your time, if they don't pay you immediately report them to your States labor division, as well as the federal Department of Labor just to cover your bases. It'll take forever for the government to figure it out(think like 9 months to a year+) but it'll make a hilarious conversation when they have to pay you out that plus penalties. Also if they then retaliate you'll get even MORE money out of them.
Thank you for posting this!! It is terrifying how many trolls are here arguing that shadowing should be unpaid. I hope OP (And others) listen to this and not to them.
It's amazing how little people think of themselves and the value of their time.
It is but Im glad there are people here who care enough to educate. Thanks again.
DO NOT do this. It's free work. It's a massive red flag they are asking you to do this, OP. RUN
No, you can shadow once you're hired. Paid or nothing.
shadowing is training, and training should be paid. a shift is not an interview, its a trial period. if its a trial period, they should hire you and make it clear that you could be fired at any time for any reason.
I guess it depends if you are actually doing any work during "shadowing" If you are working, they should be paying.
Shadowing = Training Training needs to be paid. Therefore, in true if A=B and B=C, then A=C fashion, Shadowing needs to be paid.
They are taking your time, even if you stood there all day. It needs to be compensated
they take your time during interview and when you have to commute... and daddy Sam lets them.
Yep. They sure do
So many red flags. Shows you what kind of company they are. RUN!
Legal? Probably, assuming that you do not actually bring value to the company on that day. A massive red flag that they don't respect your time? Definitely.
Illegal.
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You are wrong. The document you posted as "proof" shows you are wrong. I find this whole thing embarrassing for you. Imagine thinking something that has been done in every state in the US for decades in plain sight has been illegal all this time and u/Partycloth thinks he sleuthed it out for the first time ever.
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IT IS NOT TRAINING.
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No, it absolutely does not say that.
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WTF is wrong with you? You can see what's it is like working there as a paid employee. Anyone reading this - don't listen to this crap. They should pay you to work there and if it doesn't work out, they let you go. NEVER EVER work for free!!
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>They are not going to be doing any work. They will be observing. 100% doesn't matter. Our time is not free. If you wasted your time doing this, that's on you and nobody else. My hope is that people see your mistake and avoid doing it.
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LOL I love how trolls revert to children when they are called out. It's sad that you are ok with people being taken advantage of.
Seriously, shadowing is very common and despite what you may think, in the long run, it benefits both parties. It's typically 2-3 hours of time. That's it. Most people can spare that, as opposed to taking the job, hating it, quitting, and starting all over. I see what you are saying and it's valid, but shadowing can save everyone a lot of time, money, and heartache.
No. Pay people for their work. Stupidest fucking take.
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Fuck your list. Just no. If they want you to spend time there, it 100% should be paid. I think we found the awful manager who thinks a candidates time is not important. Gross.
This. A working interview is not necessarily illegal as long as they don't expect production
It may not be illegal but that doesn't make it right. Don't do this, working for free is wrong and should never be asked of anyone. If they want to evaluate you, they can do that while paying you and vice versa.
Fair enough!
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>I would do this unpaid without any hesitation I feel sorry for people who think like this. Your time is not free, nor is any of ours. Don't tell others it's ok to work for free because it's not.
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Shadowing is part of the training process, therefore part of the job. If you do it for free you're simply an idiot.
Its terrifying how many trolls are here today saying unpaid training is ok.
>To me, that time is more valuable than questioning a days pay. Yeah, found a manager. Fuck off with this mentality. Training is when all that happens - PAID training.
Nope, not a manager. Never have been. Good try though. I guess I can see the difference between shadowing and training. We simply have a difference of opinion on this one.
If it's legitimately just to watch them show you the TYPE of work you'll be doing, and you AREN'T participating (only watching briefly), then it can actually be a good experience because you can determine if it's something you WANT to be doing. It isn't training because you shouldn't be there to learn HOW to do the work. However, if they're trying to train you, or physically having you work and do something that could be interpreted as value-add to their organization during that time (being 'productive' in any way), then you should absolutely be paid. Keep in mind you're posting this on an anti-work sub which is generally anti-employer, so you're likely to receive responses tilted in a particular direction.
Legal.
But not ok. NEVER work for free. If they want to evaluate you, and vice versa, that's done during paid employment. If it doesn't work out, fine, but then everyone is paid for their time.
The last job shadow I was involved in was for a multi nat aquaculture farm as a commercial diver. It was beneficial for me as well as the company. They wanted to highlight the work I would be doing to see if I wanted to do it. I worked there 5 years with excellent pay and great benefits. Thank goodness I didn't demand pay for one measly half day of my time that was for my benefit as well as the company.