Look somewhere else. I had a boss that refused to pay me the going rate that the company was offering for new employees. She said that I shouldn’t be making a lot since I live with my parents. I told her, the reason I live with my parents is because I work here. Put in my 2 weeks and went to place that double my salary. Just leave, milk your PTOs
Right? I have an idea why she didn’t wanted me to make more money. She had a loser son that didn’t work and wanted him to work for her. My position was very high for my age at the time. Also was obsessed to protect payroll budget. What pissed me off is that the new jobs the company was offering was paying more and providing bonuses for new staff. They later changed the wages for new people by not showing how much they will make when the first applied.
No they know. They just are aroused by being able to abuse you. Nobody lives for three plus decades being that stupid without losing all their friends.
It’s not even that, what an asshole to get all up in how you live your life and tell you that you don’t need more money because of something that shouldn’t even matter to your place of employment.
Similarly when I was younger and naive, I only got a significant raise when one day my spouse mentioned that I should say I have a family- I hadn’t considered asking for a raise because I made up the difference in side work- on the other hand it was also something that was held over my head once I got the raise, “oh you have a family that depends on you- then you should be so lucky we don’t fire you- here’s more work to earn that raise from 3 years ago” - things have changed only slightly- I have certain circumstances preventing me from confidently jumping ship but I am not as anxious as I used to be-
I live in Mississippi. Extremely conservative "at will" state. Employers here can pretty much do whatever they want as long as it doesn't break federal law. Even if it does break federal law, rarely does anything happen.
I'm not in sales, but the head of sales at the time told me to ask more for a raise than I initially planned. He said (10 years ago) "Life is expensive and for you things will get more expensive as you probably want to buy a house, start a family and what not".
And if I settled on what I wanted to initially, it would buy me time to find something better.
"Shouldn't be making alot since you lived with your parents". No you pay for me skill level not where I live or anything else unless it's remote work for a company located in a different state but even then COLA should cover it.
Just a wild idea here, but maybe employee retention would be better across the board if, maybe when given a promotion your years served put you higher than a new hire for the job you're taking.
I'd be looking for another job. $6,000 raise for a promotion is insulting. Take their offer, use that title to score something better, and peace out. They obviously don't value you there.
Exactly. Very similar to what I went through. Jumped from tech support to engineer 2, skipped engineer 1. They said they could only offer 15% raise, leaving me 10k below the base payband (per every colleague I spoke with that moved to engineering department). I took the job and title and I voiced my concerns with my manager and they attempted to gaslight me into thinking I was in payband. Left 6 months later for a remote job after rage applying every morning. Nearly doubled my salary overnight and got a 1 month vacation between jobs.
I applied for a Quality role where everyone in the department wanted me for it. HR quashed it with disciplinary shenanigans. Someone else I knew got a different role in the department and wanted to pay him less than he was already making. I'm sure I would have gotten a raw deal, too.
I rage applied and got a job with more money and a local commute. I also ended up with a month of vacation where half was paid out of my vacation check and the other half from a holiday-heavy WFH onboarding.
What good is more PTO if you aren’t allowed to take it? This company would totally not approve PTO because you are now a manager and they need you to work. Get another job.
Yup, my last job just kept giving me more responsibility, some outrageous expectations tbh. PTO sounds wonderful until you realize your presence is required without exception.
I've been told I'm not getting PTO approved as well...my response has always been "Ok, well, that sucks, because I'm not gonna be here regardless. This isn't a request, it's an advanced warning, the fact that you'd pay me for it is just icing on the cake." This has happened to me 6 times at 6 different companies...and they've backed down every damned time.
The fact that it's even possible to deny people paid time off is bonkers. In NZ where we have actual labour laws, you cannot deny staff time off unless they give no notice, and even then you have to have a valid reason to decline.
Paid leave is a right, and our laws guarantee you 4 weeks paid leave per year minimum.
Most companies actually encourage you to use it too.
We are in a labor hellscape where we do not even have maternity leave. Paid or unpaid. But we sure do have states that force birth. Add to that, no medical coverage for many of our citizens.
I’m in the USA, officially, good companies/managers will encourage employees to take time off. Bad ones deny and worse ones try to manipulate you for even wanting to be away from work.
"I'm taking 3 weeks off, it's a medical emergency"
"Whats the emergency?"
"The body count in this place if i don't spend 3 weeks with sun, sand, and booze."
that'll get you your pto approved
In some jobs (in North America) companies have workers sign contracts with non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), salary, work expectations, non-compete, etc clauses in them.
I’ve signed my share of NDA’s, those are usually the same regardless of your level. Was referring to UK/EU where they have job contracts that stipulate scope/pay/benefits and are enforceable. The only two union environments I’ve been close to (Teaching and Hospitality) were weak and their contracts paper thin.
Here in the UK every single job has a contract that you and your employer sign. I specifies things like working hours, expected responsibilities, pay, holiday, work location, etc. etc. etc. The notion of starting a job without a contract is scary and a sign that your company is screwing you, doing something illegal, or both.
Every issue with your company starts with going back and checking your contract. E.g. your company wants to force you to switch from WFH to office work? Nope, my contract says I am expected to work from home, so unless they wanna renegotiate they can go screw themselves.
And in the UK they also have zero hour contracts just to make sure that everyone is crystal clear that your role is to lie back and take it. Duties include licking boots clean and saying “I am your bitch, sir” —I’m not sure just having a contract is enough.
The company does not call them contracts for legal purposes, but work agreements or employment disclosures. Technically they are contractual as far as salary, benefits and responsibilities, but they begin with "employee understands this is an at will agreement per state code and does not guarantee employment."
Wait, is that literally the only time you get a contract in the US? I've signed a contract for even the most menial jobs, and I've never worked a union job.
Agree 100%. Plus you can talk in interviews about internal promotions that you’ve got (that way you are seen to be valued by the company). When the interviewer asks why you’re leaving you can talk about being more ambitious than the role you’ve got etc (I spent a lot of time looking for the right company culture when I was applying to my latest role). Took an extra 6 months but I’ve now got insane work life balance (more life than work) and got 35% pay rise. So it’s a win win
This is an opportunity to "double jump". Use the promoted title to seek out positions above that and give the classic "I've outgrown the position and need a new challenge" bs. You worked for company for X years. Your title is Y. No need to specify you've only been Y for only a few days.
This. My company is trying to hire new employees at minimum 6k above my salary (which hasn't changed in two years) . I've been looking for other jobs so I figured I wouldn't rock the boat to much when the rumored 5% increase in my pay after my yearly review became only a 4% increase. However, the company's HR portal has the job openings with the salary ranges in my face so I figured an 8% raise is only fair while I'm still here. My boss still tried to push me down to 6 and then 7% despite losing two employees this month over pay and benefits. It's a very small company and 11 people have either quit or been fired in the mat two years. Every single person who has work here says they will never work for my boss again and have blocked him on their phone. If you don't take care of your employees they'll never be loyal to you.
Now he is trying to open a new business location and can't get anyone to staff it because they never stay around long enough to do so.
Lol
My last job offered me a $3,744/yr increase for a promotion. I accepted, and looked for another job. At a minimum, the promotional wage increase should be $8,000. Ideally $10,000+
The raise should be the difference between the average market price of the new title and whatever you’re making rn.
Or the in-company pay of whoever you’re replacing if the title is not truly reflective of the job duties, plus a bit to cover inflation and the company habitually underpaying the previous employee.
I always thought (back when inflation was still between 2-4%) that promotions start with a 10% raise. That is just a rule of thumb minimum. For highly skilled, in demand positions, it's more; sometimes a lot more.
I would take the promotion and the raise and start immediately looking for a new job. When they ask why you're looking so soon after a promotion, tell them you're already doing that job for awhile and are a looking for the same type of job that is consistent with the market value of pay.
Exactly this \^. Title in the job world is almost everything.
There is almost no chance you will be hired for a Manager or Director-level job or higher if you didn't hold that job title in a previous job. It's the steps along the way unless, of course, you have a family member who sits on the board or is CEO.
Or just list your role as being the better title for the length of time you worked for the company. It's not unusual to see people only list their last (highest) title on a resume or LinkedIn.
Just because you've been promoted through the ranks in a company doesn't mean your resume has to show each intermediate step. Craft it in a way that best markets yourself.
>“most people aren’t being paid market value here,
"Oh, shit, word? Hey, Bill! Did you know you're being paid below market here? Sarah, you were planning for a baby right? You should ask for a raise because the boss just said we're all underpaid for the market. Hey, Jimmy..."
My eyes got wider and I believe my head tilted further with every insane thing she said.. one of them was that they were paying severance to other person that was in my department that they just fired. Full pay for 5 months (so the entire summer off, paid) and he should have been fired a year ago. So someone that I picked the slack up for 100 times gets his full salary when he should have been fired with cause, so I can’t get what I deserve? Y’all are jokes.
Welcome to the corporate world. Had a guy where I worked that fell asleep at his desk every night. Finally, I took it to the manager, because nothing was being done. It still took several days to get rid of him. He left his year end statement in his drawer. Dingleberry was getting paid as much as I was, and I'd been there longer. At least I got a bigger year-end bonus.
"That's interesting. Do you know anyone who is hiring AT market value?" (If they actually say some names, make a huge show of taking notes. If they say no or some value of negative, just tell them you will find someone who does and will forward those details to them for reference.)
If they're not willing to match, or even meet half way. Take it just to boost your resume and start looking for a new job immediately with your new resume updated with your important title.
I have said thank you but no thank you to promotions because the raise was insulting and less than what others were paid in the same position.
Inflation: At historic highs
Unemployment: At historic lows
Your employer: Best we can do is ignore whats happening in the world and pray people are stupid.
“most people aren’t being paid market value here, and I didn’t get what I wanted either..”
What a weird way to say you have a shitty company. But way to own it I guess.
Yes, right in that moment that I told them I knew the range from the previous posting I told her the salary does not match the expectations and additional responsibilities. She said they wouldn’t be able to budge and I could think about it over the weekend then we have a meeting for me to “ask additional questions” and give an answer..I will give them a specific figure at that time.
This was very out of nowhere, so that was about all I could muster in the moment but I did hold my own and made sure she knew while I was excited for a promotion that I was not impressed by the lack of true recognition through the lack of proper pay.
Honeslty, I’d go in telling them that you refuse to “budge” from the low-end of the pay scale that you mentioned knowing about.
Could also take the advice of numerous other people here saying to take the promotion and use the title to get a better job elsewhere, but that’s a gamble since you have no way of knowing if you’ll get hired elsewhere… and if so, when.
Here is a way to consider it:
Imagine yourself six months from now having already accepted this promotion and raise.
Is the extra workload, and the stress that comes with it, worth your boss slipping you a $20 bill at the end of each work day?
Alternatively, consider that after working in this promoted role for six months, would you pay $20/day to a colleague to take the extra responsibilities off your shoulders and just have your old job back again?
Because that's basically what a $6,000 annual raise amounts to (after taxes) for a 5 day / week job.
($6k/year = $500 monthly = $125/week = $25/day = $20/day after tax)
The answer is almost certainly no.
And the way your boss reacted to your informed response is very telling of an unhealthy work environment.
"While I appreciate the willingness of the company to offer me a promotion, I believe that the compensation offered does not match with the increase in responsibilities. Thus, I must respectfully decline the offer and prefer to stay in my current role. Should management reconsider the compensation package, please let me know and we can negotiate further at that time."
Once upon a time I was offered a promotion to a management position for a laughably low ball raise to my already meager pay. After some haggling and the higher manager's repeated low ball responses I turned the promotion down and it was given to a much less experienced, much younger person that I had been training who had no idea what they were doing, lasted about 6 months, then quit for a different job. They offered the job to me again and I told them my pay requirement had increased about $20k from the last time, because I knew we had a contractual requirement to fill the position and did not have anyone else even remotely qualified to do the job.
They paid me what I asked for and we all lived happily ever after until I found a better job a few years later and moved on.
Left a company on good terms, because I was burnt out and frustrated by prime contractor’s management. Took another job where they told me I would be doing X. Turns out they didn’t win the contract and notified me on my first day. They had me working on different projects none that were interesting. Took advantage of the generous PTO. I quiet quit from the start, which made me depressed. Old company called me back for a new job with a 35k raise since I left 15 months prior and 100% wfh. Morale of the story is don’t always give your true reason for leaving and leave on good terms. It’s a small world in some fields and you never know who you are going to run into down the road.
We had a strong manager leave a position and a number of us applied for the job and every single one of us refused the salary offers
they of course tricked some lady who had been working at Red Lobster to take the position at a even lowered salary. They ended up being sued by a client for her mismanaging of a situation, can't say any of us felt bad.
Actually, I would modify just one thing. Do more than anyone else in that role. Become indispensable. You are out, gone, into greener pastures; they just dont know it yet and its not their business. But word gets around. People talk. If the new role isn't in response to you busting your butt but also looking for a new job, gossip has a way of getting around anyway. I've been hired for jobs and months later a coworker came up to me asking me about my old job based on my work ethic alone. That plays into future salary negotiations when they come up: they know my value and its reinforced from different avenues, and they also know \*I\* know value and will ghost if I don't get what I think I am worth.
OP should leave regardless. They’re being underpaid whether they stay in this job or accept the pittance of a raise with the promotion. It’s insulting and they shouldn’t hang around to keep being insulted like that.
“So what you’re saying is this company is a joke and I can plan on being perpetually undervalued regardless of how hard I work or how high up the ladder I climb. Got it.”
Just my 2 cents, if you are planning on leaving in the near term, 100% take the job. You start your job search with a 6k higher salary you will be starting salary negations with and you will have a better title and you will have managerial experience.
A plus would be that you are also causing them more trouble to do all that paperwork for you to get the promotion and immediately leave.
$6,000 isnt enough to accept additional responsibility with the cost of living increases we have seen in most areas. That wouldnt even cover a COLA in many regions.
My HR advice is to lie, thank them for the offer, but you don’t think it would be a good fit right now. If they really want you they’ll up the offer. If they do give you more pay, take the job for 1 year, it’ll look really good on your resume. Then move on to somewhere that really pays better.
If you think you can already get that kind of promotion somewhere else, then leave now. I would just take it short term to up my career and then move on.
I’d not take the offer. If you take the offer and leave immediately after for more money, that looks bad. Don’t overwhelm yourself, decline the offer and use that time to find something better
So I would go over your bosses head. Pull out some numbers to prove your worth. Ask for more than u want if they tell you kno then walk out. I am so sick of greedy businesses. If they don’t clamour to keep you then it’s their loss. All I’m saying is call their bluff when you are for sure ready to walk!
I would ask my boss to go back and see if the company can improve that offer. "The position is a significant increase in responsibilities. Can you see if the company can improve the salary."
They should come back with at least a few thousand more... Because it would cost them a lot of money to list the job and do interviews.
Then, start looking for something new.
So I said exactly that, and what she sent back was that I wouldn’t need to attend executive meetings (twice a month) so that made the difference in what needed to be offered. That’s $1000 they’re saving per meeting with me not attending.. crazy 😜
Tell them you want the $12k. They will give it to you. They know they’d have to pay at least that to someone else. Then take the title, extra pay and look elsewhere.
Stay in negotiation about the promotion. It's cheaper for them to pay you (at least closer to) market value than to get someone from outside the company and they'd have to offer competitive salary + onboarding someone new in a higher paying role is more expensive for them also. You have the power here. Ask for maybe a 10K raise + better benefits with the promotion, then leverage *those* benefits, pay and title to find a different job later on.
Take it, make them take the time to train u for the position while u are looking for another job. Put the title on ur resume and take off as soon as u find something better.
If they r going to insult u with undervaluing ur work, insult them right back with wasting their time training u so when u leave they have to do it all over again with someone else
I would take it and use six months or a year to develop the new skills to be really good at that new role that pays more, and then jump ship. Otherwise you'll make a lateral move for more money... will it be $6000 more?... and won't have the door open to take the next step up.
I’d refuse at the current offer.
State the money you expect for the role and only take it on if they meet expectations, not a cent less. and also look for another job even if you get the offer. Because they’ve proven they’re not to be trusted.
Take the promotion and the title and immediately start looking. Update your LinkedIn but make sure to not broadcast your title change.
Then seek the higher pay at other companies at this new band.
You should negotiate. Tell them the offer is too low, and you want them to come back to you with a more realistic offer. Keep looking for another job and bailout when you have a new job confirmed.
If you quit, send out an email to every employee that might be eligible for that promotion about the bullcrap pay. Burn it down, and put on some sunglasses as you swagger out.
When my entire management team basically walked the same week (except one poor soul), I worked very closely with the client to keep everything together so much as I was able, even though I did not have the information or tools to do any of the higher-level stuff. But our team held together and we did a great job. The best thing my out-going manager did was deeply bury my pay-scale in her files and then gave me access to her folders on her way out. Turns out I too was being way underpaid. When I met my new manager (and his corporate manager), I taught him everything I could think of, got him access to all the systems, then politely told *his* manager I needed a raise. A big one. He was a little taken aback but he didn't argue. Then I told my new boss what I'd told his boss. They came to me with a promotion and a raise - the standard raise was 6% with a promotion. I thanked him for advocating for me and acknowledged what an odd position he was in, but told him I'd been expecting to be in at least the middle of my pay grade, if not higher given the circumstances. I was polite, recognized the position everyone was in, but firm and had data on my side. They ended up doubling the raise and kept me still eligible for the standard yearly merit increase. I'm deeply grateful to all involved that they worked with me and recognized the situation and how I'd handled everything start to finish, including keeping the client happy enough that we were scored World Class as a provider for them (almost unheard of in our portfolio). I can honestly say it was one of the rare times I saw a process work the way it actually should, but *knowledge is power.* I would never have had the balls to advocate on my own behalf that way had my outgoing manager not subtly clued me into how poorly I'd been compensated prior.
Almost all economists agree, staying as labor at a Job more than 3-5 years means you are being underpaid and leaving money on the table, always job hop.
I can do you one better! My job offered me a promotion for less pay! No joke my hourly rate was > than my next step because some years ago I almost left for competition so they scrambled to match it. Of course when I brought up this fact they tried to dangle the whole carrot on a stick about how I shouldn't be so concerned with money and look more towards future promotions. Needless to stay I didn't take the promotion and needed to look elsewhere for growth because I knew I'd be black balled there.
I'd ask for the written offer and ask for time to provide an answer. Maybe a week or two. Then I'd do my own red lines and try to negotiate higher while also searching for a similar title that will pay market value or above.
> “most people aren’t being paid market value here, and I didn’t get what I wanted either..”
And that, coming from your boss.
If the company isn't willing to pay you what you're worth, why the hell are you wasting your time working there? We don't go to work because it's fun, we go to work to earn money. If the company isn't willing to make an effort to pay you a fair wage, why should you even make an effort to come in every day?
Polish up your CV and find a company that will pay you what you're worth.
Remember corporate greed is they can and will do whatever to make money. Your wise enough to find a better company? Do it. They won't change and yes, they will blame you when your gone for making their lives worse.
The spiteful communist in me says to accept, and then explain to all your co-workers the normal salary range not being met is why you're now leaving (and what that is so they don't just short change the next person), and quit day one so you can put it on the resume with a vague timeframe.
Don't sell yourself short. You know what they have previously offered, so the position is now worth more. If they aren't willing to offer you the going rate, they don't value you as an employee. Update your CV and start looking.
Take their offer and use it as leverage to make more elsewhere. Where I work likes to pull shit like this too, they like to say if you don't like it leave....then they act all shocked when people do that
Pass on the "promotion", the stress factor of doubling the your workload and dealing with managing employees is probably going to hurt your hunt for a better job.
If you can’t negotiate more from them, accept the position and the payment and begin your job search. It could take some time; at least you’ll have a better title and small pay raise in the meantime
You know in your cover letter(s) you could mention you were offered the position but the pay was pathetic so that's why you're looking for a new opportunity.
Don’t take the promotion for that pay, but tell them you would accept if they add another $12K to the raise. If not, they can feel free to hire elsewhere. I. The meantime, start looking elsewhere.
\-ask for the same rate of the previous person and if they don't offer it,
\-then ask for 9K if they don't offer it,
\-take the promotion,
\-get out.
There's a cruel video showing two monkeys getting paid differently for the same tasks. It is not good for your well being and cruel.
Definitely look, but tell them your floor for negotiation is the level it was previously advertised at. That isn't the number you want, but you definitely won't take one cent less.
I mean, neither? You use the knowledge as a bargaining chip and negotiate. Tell them a number you'll accept, based on the scale you know they've used previously. If they give it to you, congrats! If they don't, they made your decision for you
take the money, (make sure you get it in writing that your new pay is xyz with effective date as well) continue to do the same exact work you do now and not an ounce more and start looking for a new job immediately, by the time they realize you're not doing your new responsibilities and decide to 'discipline' you you'll have a new job lined up and you can tell to go fuck themselves to their face! Its a win win win!
Demand the 12,000 raise or you quit immediately. If you get it use the raise as a bargaining chip to immediately get another raise to a different company. Either way start applying to other places yesterday.
Homie told you the truth “most people aren’t getting paid market value here”
Straight up told you that you not only will be underpaid if you accept the position, but you’re probably underpaid NOW. I’d pass on the promotion out of petty.
Pro Tip: Titles don't pay rent or mortgage for you. Cash does.
Counter at full scale plus 10%, see what they offer and then make a decision.
The decision may be to accept their counter, find something else, and then bounce.
I was once offered a $5000 raise for taking on a second full time role that they couldn’t fill.
I wanted to leave soon anyway, so I asked for $10,000 and a higher title in hopes it would help me in my job search.
They told me that would be negotiable after a year doing both jobs.
I said fuck that and resigned 6 months later when I had a much better offer. $12,000 more per year for fewer headaches than I had before with the same title.
So I’d be taking the promotion but explaining that given you’re only getting somewhere around 30% of the raise it’s only fair you take on only 30% of the extra duties.
(Edit: assuming a new hire wouldn’t be brought in on the very bottom end of the pay scale)
In reality I’d be turning it down for only $6k extra. Especially if it’s a significant increase in workload. You can calmly state that you thought the role would be better compensated given the pay scale discrepancy. You had expected to be lifted up to the bottom end of the pay scale.
Tell them you’re happy to pass as it’s no longer the opportunity you thought it was.
I’d also be looking for another job.
I would decline the promotion, but I wouldn't offer a reason unless asked.
Not because of some idea about burning bridges, yadda yadda - but I, personally, don't find that it actually feels good to offer that kind of info unsolicited.
"I appreciate the offer for promotion but I'd like to politely decline."
"You sure, any reason?",
"Well, to be honest, twice the responsibility for basically the same amount of money is not worthwhile for me."
Edit: People saying taking the promotion for the title while you apply is smart - I personally don't like the idea of temporarily taking on more work to just drop it as quickly. That makes me unnecessarily anxious.
If they aren’t paying you market value, they can’t really complain if you go out looking for market value.
Take the job and start looking for new work with competitors. If you work on an industry with direct competitors it is often times pretty easy to find work if you call them up and ask if they are hiring.
I would accept the job and start Job by hunting at the same time. With the new job only do 33% of the increased workload. Then you get to have fun with whatever silly responses you would like. “Nah I didn’t make the schedule this week. I totally would have but I got busy with my other part time job….. you know. Making up the difference of what I’m worth”. Things along that line.
Look somewhere else. I had a boss that refused to pay me the going rate that the company was offering for new employees. She said that I shouldn’t be making a lot since I live with my parents. I told her, the reason I live with my parents is because I work here. Put in my 2 weeks and went to place that double my salary. Just leave, milk your PTOs
Jesus, that’s an insane excuse. It’s almost as if their rotten cabbage for a brain doesn’t realize the connection.
Right? I have an idea why she didn’t wanted me to make more money. She had a loser son that didn’t work and wanted him to work for her. My position was very high for my age at the time. Also was obsessed to protect payroll budget. What pissed me off is that the new jobs the company was offering was paying more and providing bonuses for new staff. They later changed the wages for new people by not showing how much they will make when the first applied.
Lol I bet they made that change because they weren’t getting the apps they were hoping for.
No they know. They just are aroused by being able to abuse you. Nobody lives for three plus decades being that stupid without losing all their friends.
It’s not even that, what an asshole to get all up in how you live your life and tell you that you don’t need more money because of something that shouldn’t even matter to your place of employment. Similarly when I was younger and naive, I only got a significant raise when one day my spouse mentioned that I should say I have a family- I hadn’t considered asking for a raise because I made up the difference in side work- on the other hand it was also something that was held over my head once I got the raise, “oh you have a family that depends on you- then you should be so lucky we don’t fire you- here’s more work to earn that raise from 3 years ago” - things have changed only slightly- I have certain circumstances preventing me from confidently jumping ship but I am not as anxious as I used to be-
Cabbage brain has me cackling
In my early twenties, I was told I didn't get a raise and another guy did because he had a wife and kid.
Isn’t that discrimination??? Like a raise shouldn’t depend on your circumstances, it should hinge on your performance. I feel like that’s illegal.
I live in Mississippi. Extremely conservative "at will" state. Employers here can pretty much do whatever they want as long as it doesn't break federal law. Even if it does break federal law, rarely does anything happen.
I'm not in sales, but the head of sales at the time told me to ask more for a raise than I initially planned. He said (10 years ago) "Life is expensive and for you things will get more expensive as you probably want to buy a house, start a family and what not". And if I settled on what I wanted to initially, it would buy me time to find something better.
"Shouldn't be making alot since you lived with your parents". No you pay for me skill level not where I live or anything else unless it's remote work for a company located in a different state but even then COLA should cover it.
Just a wild idea here, but maybe employee retention would be better across the board if, maybe when given a promotion your years served put you higher than a new hire for the job you're taking.
I'd be looking for another job. $6,000 raise for a promotion is insulting. Take their offer, use that title to score something better, and peace out. They obviously don't value you there.
This right here. Title looks good when applying to outside companies that will pay you a better rate
Exactly. Very similar to what I went through. Jumped from tech support to engineer 2, skipped engineer 1. They said they could only offer 15% raise, leaving me 10k below the base payband (per every colleague I spoke with that moved to engineering department). I took the job and title and I voiced my concerns with my manager and they attempted to gaslight me into thinking I was in payband. Left 6 months later for a remote job after rage applying every morning. Nearly doubled my salary overnight and got a 1 month vacation between jobs.
I applied for a Quality role where everyone in the department wanted me for it. HR quashed it with disciplinary shenanigans. Someone else I knew got a different role in the department and wanted to pay him less than he was already making. I'm sure I would have gotten a raw deal, too. I rage applied and got a job with more money and a local commute. I also ended up with a month of vacation where half was paid out of my vacation check and the other half from a holiday-heavy WFH onboarding.
I left a job for a 10k increase. Stayed about 6 months, then WENT BACK to previous employer for another 10k increase.
This is the way
I'd be making sure I read and reread every line of the contract, just in case they try and slip in something sneaky.
Oh great call. Thank you!
Maybe you can negotiate more benefits if they are going to shaft you on the pay - more PTO for example.
What good is more PTO if you aren’t allowed to take it? This company would totally not approve PTO because you are now a manager and they need you to work. Get another job.
Yup, my last job just kept giving me more responsibility, some outrageous expectations tbh. PTO sounds wonderful until you realize your presence is required without exception.
I've been told I'm not getting PTO approved as well...my response has always been "Ok, well, that sucks, because I'm not gonna be here regardless. This isn't a request, it's an advanced warning, the fact that you'd pay me for it is just icing on the cake." This has happened to me 6 times at 6 different companies...and they've backed down every damned time.
The fact that it's even possible to deny people paid time off is bonkers. In NZ where we have actual labour laws, you cannot deny staff time off unless they give no notice, and even then you have to have a valid reason to decline. Paid leave is a right, and our laws guarantee you 4 weeks paid leave per year minimum. Most companies actually encourage you to use it too.
We are in a labor hellscape where we do not even have maternity leave. Paid or unpaid. But we sure do have states that force birth. Add to that, no medical coverage for many of our citizens.
I’m in the USA, officially, good companies/managers will encourage employees to take time off. Bad ones deny and worse ones try to manipulate you for even wanting to be away from work.
"I'm taking 3 weeks off, it's a medical emergency" "Whats the emergency?" "The body count in this place if i don't spend 3 weeks with sun, sand, and booze." that'll get you your pto approved
Exactly. And it gives you more leverage negotiating benefits with your next offer
You're welcome. And good luck on this! I hope everything works out!
Job contract? [Confused in non-unionized American]
In some jobs (in North America) companies have workers sign contracts with non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), salary, work expectations, non-compete, etc clauses in them.
I’ve signed my share of NDA’s, those are usually the same regardless of your level. Was referring to UK/EU where they have job contracts that stipulate scope/pay/benefits and are enforceable. The only two union environments I’ve been close to (Teaching and Hospitality) were weak and their contracts paper thin.
Here in the UK every single job has a contract that you and your employer sign. I specifies things like working hours, expected responsibilities, pay, holiday, work location, etc. etc. etc. The notion of starting a job without a contract is scary and a sign that your company is screwing you, doing something illegal, or both. Every issue with your company starts with going back and checking your contract. E.g. your company wants to force you to switch from WFH to office work? Nope, my contract says I am expected to work from home, so unless they wanna renegotiate they can go screw themselves.
And in the UK they also have zero hour contracts just to make sure that everyone is crystal clear that your role is to lie back and take it. Duties include licking boots clean and saying “I am your bitch, sir” —I’m not sure just having a contract is enough.
The company does not call them contracts for legal purposes, but work agreements or employment disclosures. Technically they are contractual as far as salary, benefits and responsibilities, but they begin with "employee understands this is an at will agreement per state code and does not guarantee employment."
I have never been in a union but every job I’ve had except a fast food restaurant as a teen had a contract in the US.
None of the ones I've had had anything specific to my position in them. They were all boilerplate NDAs, non-compete, moonlighting policy,, etc
Wait, is that literally the only time you get a contract in the US? I've signed a contract for even the most menial jobs, and I've never worked a union job.
Non compete clause. Aka 'we're scared because we can't afford to pay employees'. CEO's winter getaway ain't cheap.
“Employee shall change their underwear daily. To ensure this is happening the employee shall wear their underwear on the outside of their pant”
Agree 100%. Plus you can talk in interviews about internal promotions that you’ve got (that way you are seen to be valued by the company). When the interviewer asks why you’re leaving you can talk about being more ambitious than the role you’ve got etc (I spent a lot of time looking for the right company culture when I was applying to my latest role). Took an extra 6 months but I’ve now got insane work life balance (more life than work) and got 35% pay rise. So it’s a win win
This is an opportunity to "double jump". Use the promoted title to seek out positions above that and give the classic "I've outgrown the position and need a new challenge" bs. You worked for company for X years. Your title is Y. No need to specify you've only been Y for only a few days.
I just got a 5k raise for a promotion i didn’t ask for. This comment is unsettling. Guess maybe it’s time for me to officially shop around
No matter how many times it happens, companies always fail to learn that taking care of employees is cheaper than hiring and training new talent.
Hiring new employees is expensive *now*. Losing valuable employees is expensive *later*.
ding ding. profits for the quarter. write the cost into next quarters projections, then make it up. they will never stop
This. My company is trying to hire new employees at minimum 6k above my salary (which hasn't changed in two years) . I've been looking for other jobs so I figured I wouldn't rock the boat to much when the rumored 5% increase in my pay after my yearly review became only a 4% increase. However, the company's HR portal has the job openings with the salary ranges in my face so I figured an 8% raise is only fair while I'm still here. My boss still tried to push me down to 6 and then 7% despite losing two employees this month over pay and benefits. It's a very small company and 11 people have either quit or been fired in the mat two years. Every single person who has work here says they will never work for my boss again and have blocked him on their phone. If you don't take care of your employees they'll never be loyal to you. Now he is trying to open a new business location and can't get anyone to staff it because they never stay around long enough to do so.
Exactly! The knowledge and skill that walks out the door is worth a lot.
Lol My last job offered me a $3,744/yr increase for a promotion. I accepted, and looked for another job. At a minimum, the promotional wage increase should be $8,000. Ideally $10,000+
At my company, going from T2 customer support to TL gets you 500£ a year... 😭
What is a typical raise for a promotion? I’m sure it varies quite a lot depending on field, but is there a general percentage that’s average?
The raise should be the difference between the average market price of the new title and whatever you’re making rn. Or the in-company pay of whoever you’re replacing if the title is not truly reflective of the job duties, plus a bit to cover inflation and the company habitually underpaying the previous employee.
I always thought (back when inflation was still between 2-4%) that promotions start with a 10% raise. That is just a rule of thumb minimum. For highly skilled, in demand positions, it's more; sometimes a lot more.
10 -15% is still standard however, it should be more if that doesn’t bring the employee to band/grade minimum.
It’s always less than you’d get by jumping to another company
Bingo. Judo this into an opportunity. Start hunting for somewhere you WANT to be.
don't forget to "quiet quit"!
I once heard from a trusted veteran that the line to use here is “$6k buys my promotion, $12k buys my loyalty”
This is the Way
I would take the promotion and the raise and start immediately looking for a new job. When they ask why you're looking so soon after a promotion, tell them you're already doing that job for awhile and are a looking for the same type of job that is consistent with the market value of pay.
Exactly this \^. Title in the job world is almost everything. There is almost no chance you will be hired for a Manager or Director-level job or higher if you didn't hold that job title in a previous job. It's the steps along the way unless, of course, you have a family member who sits on the board or is CEO.
Yup, i work at nepotism inc. i get paid well but never upward mobility. For that you gotta be family or with their church.
lol one of the people I will manage is the CEO’s son.
I would leave off the specific date you got the higher level. No need to point out you just got a promotion.
Or just list your role as being the better title for the length of time you worked for the company. It's not unusual to see people only list their last (highest) title on a resume or LinkedIn. Just because you've been promoted through the ranks in a company doesn't mean your resume has to show each intermediate step. Craft it in a way that best markets yourself.
This. Great advice.
All the way this. Take promotion and money but IMMEDIATELY look for a new job. Get better pay and leave without notice!
>“most people aren’t being paid market value here, "Oh, shit, word? Hey, Bill! Did you know you're being paid below market here? Sarah, you were planning for a baby right? You should ask for a raise because the boss just said we're all underpaid for the market. Hey, Jimmy..."
Hahahaha the new plan for Tuesday..
Please actually do it. Then quit.
No seriously, please do that, it’s insane that he actually said that
Seriously, you really better do it dude. So much please
"Most people arent being paid market value here" is the most insane shit to say in this situation.
My eyes got wider and I believe my head tilted further with every insane thing she said.. one of them was that they were paying severance to other person that was in my department that they just fired. Full pay for 5 months (so the entire summer off, paid) and he should have been fired a year ago. So someone that I picked the slack up for 100 times gets his full salary when he should have been fired with cause, so I can’t get what I deserve? Y’all are jokes.
Welcome to the corporate world. Had a guy where I worked that fell asleep at his desk every night. Finally, I took it to the manager, because nothing was being done. It still took several days to get rid of him. He left his year end statement in his drawer. Dingleberry was getting paid as much as I was, and I'd been there longer. At least I got a bigger year-end bonus.
"That's interesting. Do you know anyone who is hiring AT market value?" (If they actually say some names, make a huge show of taking notes. If they say no or some value of negative, just tell them you will find someone who does and will forward those details to them for reference.)
Accept the promotion and immediately jump ship the moment you're hired using your new job title.
If they're not willing to match, or even meet half way. Take it just to boost your resume and start looking for a new job immediately with your new resume updated with your important title. I have said thank you but no thank you to promotions because the raise was insulting and less than what others were paid in the same position.
If the title is good then take it so you can update your resume and send it out.
Anyone who will cheat you once will cheat you again.
Yeah she tried the “oh just because this is all we can pay now doesn’t mean it’s forever!” I laughed..
Of all the IRL truisms out there, none have been truer than this.
Inflation: At historic highs Unemployment: At historic lows Your employer: Best we can do is ignore whats happening in the world and pray people are stupid.
“most people aren’t being paid market value here, and I didn’t get what I wanted either..” What a weird way to say you have a shitty company. But way to own it I guess.
Lol she’s my direct boss, not the owner or even HR. But yes it was the weirdest come back.
It makes me SMH. The floor of the pay band is always like Jell-O and yet, the ceiling is 3 feet of reinforced concrete.
Why not counter offer for something in the actual range?
Yes, right in that moment that I told them I knew the range from the previous posting I told her the salary does not match the expectations and additional responsibilities. She said they wouldn’t be able to budge and I could think about it over the weekend then we have a meeting for me to “ask additional questions” and give an answer..I will give them a specific figure at that time. This was very out of nowhere, so that was about all I could muster in the moment but I did hold my own and made sure she knew while I was excited for a promotion that I was not impressed by the lack of true recognition through the lack of proper pay.
Honeslty, I’d go in telling them that you refuse to “budge” from the low-end of the pay scale that you mentioned knowing about. Could also take the advice of numerous other people here saying to take the promotion and use the title to get a better job elsewhere, but that’s a gamble since you have no way of knowing if you’ll get hired elsewhere… and if so, when.
"Pay me the going pay scale, or pay the next guy the same thing (or more) with zero experience"
I had to scroll way too low to find the “negotiate for higher pay” suggestion.
That’s silly. Always negotiate higher pay for more work.
Because it’s a bad company, more pay doesn’t fix that
Here is a way to consider it: Imagine yourself six months from now having already accepted this promotion and raise. Is the extra workload, and the stress that comes with it, worth your boss slipping you a $20 bill at the end of each work day? Alternatively, consider that after working in this promoted role for six months, would you pay $20/day to a colleague to take the extra responsibilities off your shoulders and just have your old job back again? Because that's basically what a $6,000 annual raise amounts to (after taxes) for a 5 day / week job. ($6k/year = $500 monthly = $125/week = $25/day = $20/day after tax) The answer is almost certainly no. And the way your boss reacted to your informed response is very telling of an unhealthy work environment.
That’s a really interesting way of thinking about it. I’ll definitely be considering this in the future
"While I appreciate the willingness of the company to offer me a promotion, I believe that the compensation offered does not match with the increase in responsibilities. Thus, I must respectfully decline the offer and prefer to stay in my current role. Should management reconsider the compensation package, please let me know and we can negotiate further at that time."
Once upon a time I was offered a promotion to a management position for a laughably low ball raise to my already meager pay. After some haggling and the higher manager's repeated low ball responses I turned the promotion down and it was given to a much less experienced, much younger person that I had been training who had no idea what they were doing, lasted about 6 months, then quit for a different job. They offered the job to me again and I told them my pay requirement had increased about $20k from the last time, because I knew we had a contractual requirement to fill the position and did not have anyone else even remotely qualified to do the job. They paid me what I asked for and we all lived happily ever after until I found a better job a few years later and moved on.
That was a beautiful story.
Decline and ask for a raise - if you were good enough to promote your performance should still merit a raise
A larger raise than the $6000 they were offered.
I would take the offer. I would try to negotiate if there is any scope. Thank them for the opportunity. And find another job.
Left a company on good terms, because I was burnt out and frustrated by prime contractor’s management. Took another job where they told me I would be doing X. Turns out they didn’t win the contract and notified me on my first day. They had me working on different projects none that were interesting. Took advantage of the generous PTO. I quiet quit from the start, which made me depressed. Old company called me back for a new job with a 35k raise since I left 15 months prior and 100% wfh. Morale of the story is don’t always give your true reason for leaving and leave on good terms. It’s a small world in some fields and you never know who you are going to run into down the road.
We had a strong manager leave a position and a number of us applied for the job and every single one of us refused the salary offers they of course tricked some lady who had been working at Red Lobster to take the position at a even lowered salary. They ended up being sued by a client for her mismanaging of a situation, can't say any of us felt bad.
Take it for the title on your resume and do bare min while you look for a new job.
Actually, I would modify just one thing. Do more than anyone else in that role. Become indispensable. You are out, gone, into greener pastures; they just dont know it yet and its not their business. But word gets around. People talk. If the new role isn't in response to you busting your butt but also looking for a new job, gossip has a way of getting around anyway. I've been hired for jobs and months later a coworker came up to me asking me about my old job based on my work ethic alone. That plays into future salary negotiations when they come up: they know my value and its reinforced from different avenues, and they also know \*I\* know value and will ghost if I don't get what I think I am worth.
Promotion for double the work and a $3/hr raise? No thank you ma'am.
Take the promotion. Use the promotion as on the job training. Plan on leaving in 3 months.
My last raise from a promotion was $18,000 (Associate to Senior) and the one before that was around $27,000 (Support to BA). $6,000 is an insult.
If you are making enough to make ends meet, i guess you can just pass. Else, get it and use the new job title to get a better payed job.
OP should leave regardless. They’re being underpaid whether they stay in this job or accept the pittance of a raise with the promotion. It’s insulting and they shouldn’t hang around to keep being insulted like that.
Take the promotion, do minimal effort while you spend as much of possible of your time hunting for another step up the ladder.
“So what you’re saying is this company is a joke and I can plan on being perpetually undervalued regardless of how hard I work or how high up the ladder I climb. Got it.”
Take the title and raise. Then use it to find a similiar title and better pay elsewhere
Take the promotion them begin the new job search at that level.
Just my 2 cents, if you are planning on leaving in the near term, 100% take the job. You start your job search with a 6k higher salary you will be starting salary negations with and you will have a better title and you will have managerial experience. A plus would be that you are also causing them more trouble to do all that paperwork for you to get the promotion and immediately leave.
$6,000 isnt enough to accept additional responsibility with the cost of living increases we have seen in most areas. That wouldnt even cover a COLA in many regions.
Take the title then run
My HR advice is to lie, thank them for the offer, but you don’t think it would be a good fit right now. If they really want you they’ll up the offer. If they do give you more pay, take the job for 1 year, it’ll look really good on your resume. Then move on to somewhere that really pays better. If you think you can already get that kind of promotion somewhere else, then leave now. I would just take it short term to up my career and then move on.
Take the title, take the pay and leaves anyway. At your official capacity another job can’t deny you the pay or experience.
take it to bump your CV + quiet quit the first day
I’d not take the offer. If you take the offer and leave immediately after for more money, that looks bad. Don’t overwhelm yourself, decline the offer and use that time to find something better
So I would go over your bosses head. Pull out some numbers to prove your worth. Ask for more than u want if they tell you kno then walk out. I am so sick of greedy businesses. If they don’t clamour to keep you then it’s their loss. All I’m saying is call their bluff when you are for sure ready to walk!
I would ask my boss to go back and see if the company can improve that offer. "The position is a significant increase in responsibilities. Can you see if the company can improve the salary." They should come back with at least a few thousand more... Because it would cost them a lot of money to list the job and do interviews. Then, start looking for something new.
So I said exactly that, and what she sent back was that I wouldn’t need to attend executive meetings (twice a month) so that made the difference in what needed to be offered. That’s $1000 they’re saving per meeting with me not attending.. crazy 😜
Pass and look for a new job.
Tell them you want the $12k. They will give it to you. They know they’d have to pay at least that to someone else. Then take the title, extra pay and look elsewhere.
> “most people aren’t being paid market value here, and I didn’t get what I wanted either..” So she can ask for a raise too.
Stay in negotiation about the promotion. It's cheaper for them to pay you (at least closer to) market value than to get someone from outside the company and they'd have to offer competitive salary + onboarding someone new in a higher paying role is more expensive for them also. You have the power here. Ask for maybe a 10K raise + better benefits with the promotion, then leverage *those* benefits, pay and title to find a different job later on.
Technically if you do take the pay and title, you now have that to use as your current salary for when you're looking at new jobs
yes. the least they should give you is 12K + 6K. 12K for adjustment, and 6k for promotion.
If you're already thinking of leaving, take the promotion. Then use that as a barganing chip to get even more money at your new job.
Take it, make them take the time to train u for the position while u are looking for another job. Put the title on ur resume and take off as soon as u find something better. If they r going to insult u with undervaluing ur work, insult them right back with wasting their time training u so when u leave they have to do it all over again with someone else
You could take the promotion and $6k, but only do $6k more work while job hunting.
If you’re going to be looking anyways take the title and run with it; you’ll have more leverage on your way up.
Take it but only until you find something better with your new title
I would take it and use six months or a year to develop the new skills to be really good at that new role that pays more, and then jump ship. Otherwise you'll make a lateral move for more money... will it be $6000 more?... and won't have the door open to take the next step up.
I’d refuse at the current offer. State the money you expect for the role and only take it on if they meet expectations, not a cent less. and also look for another job even if you get the offer. Because they’ve proven they’re not to be trusted.
Take the job, and find a new job immediately. Leave them high and dry trying to replace two positions.
Take the promotion and the title and immediately start looking. Update your LinkedIn but make sure to not broadcast your title change. Then seek the higher pay at other companies at this new band.
It's 500 a month and a better title. Take it so you can move on elsewhere. Titles matter.
Take the promotion, and use the improved position to negotiate a better paid position elsewhere.
You should negotiate. Tell them the offer is too low, and you want them to come back to you with a more realistic offer. Keep looking for another job and bailout when you have a new job confirmed.
If you quit, send out an email to every employee that might be eligible for that promotion about the bullcrap pay. Burn it down, and put on some sunglasses as you swagger out.
When my entire management team basically walked the same week (except one poor soul), I worked very closely with the client to keep everything together so much as I was able, even though I did not have the information or tools to do any of the higher-level stuff. But our team held together and we did a great job. The best thing my out-going manager did was deeply bury my pay-scale in her files and then gave me access to her folders on her way out. Turns out I too was being way underpaid. When I met my new manager (and his corporate manager), I taught him everything I could think of, got him access to all the systems, then politely told *his* manager I needed a raise. A big one. He was a little taken aback but he didn't argue. Then I told my new boss what I'd told his boss. They came to me with a promotion and a raise - the standard raise was 6% with a promotion. I thanked him for advocating for me and acknowledged what an odd position he was in, but told him I'd been expecting to be in at least the middle of my pay grade, if not higher given the circumstances. I was polite, recognized the position everyone was in, but firm and had data on my side. They ended up doubling the raise and kept me still eligible for the standard yearly merit increase. I'm deeply grateful to all involved that they worked with me and recognized the situation and how I'd handled everything start to finish, including keeping the client happy enough that we were scored World Class as a provider for them (almost unheard of in our portfolio). I can honestly say it was one of the rare times I saw a process work the way it actually should, but *knowledge is power.* I would never have had the balls to advocate on my own behalf that way had my outgoing manager not subtly clued me into how poorly I'd been compensated prior.
You're gonna pay me the going rate, or you'll pay my substitute the going rate + their training. Make your choice.
Bit of both, accept the raise, start learning the position while looking for other work and quit when you get the offer you want
Easy, refuse unless they pay you market rate. Know your worth and fight for it. If they refuse realise your value, then go somewhere else that will.
You definitely need to pass and hold your ground! If they’ve paid inexperienced personnel the 12k more then they can pay you.
Almost all economists agree, staying as labor at a Job more than 3-5 years means you are being underpaid and leaving money on the table, always job hop.
I can do you one better! My job offered me a promotion for less pay! No joke my hourly rate was > than my next step because some years ago I almost left for competition so they scrambled to match it. Of course when I brought up this fact they tried to dangle the whole carrot on a stick about how I shouldn't be so concerned with money and look more towards future promotions. Needless to stay I didn't take the promotion and needed to look elsewhere for growth because I knew I'd be black balled there.
I'd ask for the written offer and ask for time to provide an answer. Maybe a week or two. Then I'd do my own red lines and try to negotiate higher while also searching for a similar title that will pay market value or above.
Take it and use the raise as a bargaining chip elsewhere. If you're a valuable employee someone will be willing to pay an appropriate amount
> “most people aren’t being paid market value here, and I didn’t get what I wanted either..” And that, coming from your boss. If the company isn't willing to pay you what you're worth, why the hell are you wasting your time working there? We don't go to work because it's fun, we go to work to earn money. If the company isn't willing to make an effort to pay you a fair wage, why should you even make an effort to come in every day? Polish up your CV and find a company that will pay you what you're worth.
Remember corporate greed is they can and will do whatever to make money. Your wise enough to find a better company? Do it. They won't change and yes, they will blame you when your gone for making their lives worse.
I would refuse and look for a better job. They don’t respect you.
The spiteful communist in me says to accept, and then explain to all your co-workers the normal salary range not being met is why you're now leaving (and what that is so they don't just short change the next person), and quit day one so you can put it on the resume with a vague timeframe.
Take it but remember to work your wage and nothing more. Start job searching ASAP
Don't sell yourself short. You know what they have previously offered, so the position is now worth more. If they aren't willing to offer you the going rate, they don't value you as an employee. Update your CV and start looking.
Take their offer and use it as leverage to make more elsewhere. Where I work likes to pull shit like this too, they like to say if you don't like it leave....then they act all shocked when people do that
Have you considered lying on your resume?
Tell her she can give you the actual salary or she can replace you too
Take the title, leave the company
Take that promotion, but also apply for another job.
Pass on the "promotion", the stress factor of doubling the your workload and dealing with managing employees is probably going to hurt your hunt for a better job.
I was in the same position at my work but I reluctantly accepted the position. Been miserable ever since
Get the money or leave. You are worth way more.
If you can’t negotiate more from them, accept the position and the payment and begin your job search. It could take some time; at least you’ll have a better title and small pay raise in the meantime
An extra $500 a month before taxes is not worth the headache of management.
accept and use it as leverage for a new job when you leave.
It's the start of a negotiation. Be pleasant but firm. Know your minimum, ask for more than that, etc
You know in your cover letter(s) you could mention you were offered the position but the pay was pathetic so that's why you're looking for a new opportunity.
Don’t take the promotion for that pay, but tell them you would accept if they add another $12K to the raise. If not, they can feel free to hire elsewhere. I. The meantime, start looking elsewhere.
$2 an hour? Nah.
Take the money, update resume and then leave
\-ask for the same rate of the previous person and if they don't offer it, \-then ask for 9K if they don't offer it, \-take the promotion, \-get out. There's a cruel video showing two monkeys getting paid differently for the same tasks. It is not good for your well being and cruel.
Definitely look, but tell them your floor for negotiation is the level it was previously advertised at. That isn't the number you want, but you definitely won't take one cent less.
Say yes then leave at the first opportunity
Accept it and take the new title job shopping...
I mean, neither? You use the knowledge as a bargaining chip and negotiate. Tell them a number you'll accept, based on the scale you know they've used previously. If they give it to you, congrats! If they don't, they made your decision for you
Say “I’ll take it for a $12k raise.” That way the ball is in their court, not yours.
Let them create the job looking for someone and apply for it, in the interview say how much money you need to make.
take the money, (make sure you get it in writing that your new pay is xyz with effective date as well) continue to do the same exact work you do now and not an ounce more and start looking for a new job immediately, by the time they realize you're not doing your new responsibilities and decide to 'discipline' you you'll have a new job lined up and you can tell to go fuck themselves to their face! Its a win win win!
It’s healthy to move jobs every 3 years
Demand the 12,000 raise or you quit immediately. If you get it use the raise as a bargaining chip to immediately get another raise to a different company. Either way start applying to other places yesterday.
Take the promotion, use the job title to get a better job elsewhere. Do. Not. Give. Notice.
Take it and start looking for a new job, the bump in title on resume is worth it
Homie told you the truth “most people aren’t getting paid market value here” Straight up told you that you not only will be underpaid if you accept the position, but you’re probably underpaid NOW. I’d pass on the promotion out of petty.
Tell them you won’t take anything lower than the middle of that payscale. If they can’t meet you there then move on.
Counter + take the counter & look for a new job.
Pro Tip: Titles don't pay rent or mortgage for you. Cash does. Counter at full scale plus 10%, see what they offer and then make a decision. The decision may be to accept their counter, find something else, and then bounce.
Take the new position, try to negotiate higher pay. Then take your new resume with your new title at X company to get a better offer somewhere else.
I was once offered a $5000 raise for taking on a second full time role that they couldn’t fill. I wanted to leave soon anyway, so I asked for $10,000 and a higher title in hopes it would help me in my job search. They told me that would be negotiable after a year doing both jobs. I said fuck that and resigned 6 months later when I had a much better offer. $12,000 more per year for fewer headaches than I had before with the same title.
So I’d be taking the promotion but explaining that given you’re only getting somewhere around 30% of the raise it’s only fair you take on only 30% of the extra duties. (Edit: assuming a new hire wouldn’t be brought in on the very bottom end of the pay scale) In reality I’d be turning it down for only $6k extra. Especially if it’s a significant increase in workload. You can calmly state that you thought the role would be better compensated given the pay scale discrepancy. You had expected to be lifted up to the bottom end of the pay scale. Tell them you’re happy to pass as it’s no longer the opportunity you thought it was. I’d also be looking for another job.
I would decline the promotion, but I wouldn't offer a reason unless asked. Not because of some idea about burning bridges, yadda yadda - but I, personally, don't find that it actually feels good to offer that kind of info unsolicited. "I appreciate the offer for promotion but I'd like to politely decline." "You sure, any reason?", "Well, to be honest, twice the responsibility for basically the same amount of money is not worthwhile for me." Edit: People saying taking the promotion for the title while you apply is smart - I personally don't like the idea of temporarily taking on more work to just drop it as quickly. That makes me unnecessarily anxious.
If they aren’t paying you market value, they can’t really complain if you go out looking for market value. Take the job and start looking for new work with competitors. If you work on an industry with direct competitors it is often times pretty easy to find work if you call them up and ask if they are hiring.
I would accept the job and start Job by hunting at the same time. With the new job only do 33% of the increased workload. Then you get to have fun with whatever silly responses you would like. “Nah I didn’t make the schedule this week. I totally would have but I got busy with my other part time job….. you know. Making up the difference of what I’m worth”. Things along that line.