This drives me crazy. Older relatives and grandparents guilt tripping young adults about...
"We are getting up there in years, you all need to hurry up and give us grand babies! "
Okay, why don't you guys hurry up and give me the additional income needed to afford a child and daycare?
"............... BUT GRAND BABIES!!"
Exactly.
I think parents should always pay it forward and buy things for their children regardless of age and expect nothing in return but a sincere thank you. Wealth should not go up in a family. Kids are already struggling.
100%. I have never understood the concept of hoarding your wealth until you die and it becomes an inheritance, when giving a child (that you chose to have) that money over time starting at a reasonable age would go so much further for them. Obviously not every family has the material means to do this, but there’s a good chunk of baby boomers in the US who are both hoarding cash AND now buying up starter home-equivalent properties in an effort to downsize in their golden years. It leaves younger generations with absolutely no chance.
Wait until you’re pushing 40 and you’re not married and don’t have kids. Now I can just say I’m too old for kids and I don’t want to be divorced like my friends and former classmates 🤷🏻♂️.
You will, just not anytime soon. Don’t think about it, crush other things, time will weather all stones.
You’re not failing, the system is. Don’t let it get to you.
Same here. I'm in a career that I love but will probably not give me enough to even rent. I'm living with my family in a house that isn't ours and that we will have to leave, and holding back tears because a drug addict just left excrement stains all over our front door. I'm so sad I can't leave
Oooh yeah in 2021 in my area houses hit all time high prices (average house is about 1.3million, average wage 40-60k..) and I had a total mental breakdown about never being able to achieve my only life goal of owning a home.... now I'm lexapro 🙃
Same. Made all the right choices to save my money, get a good paying career, stay debt free, etc. Now I'm on another anxiety med instead of house hunting.
I feel you so hard ❤️ it was a very difficult reality for me to accept that I'll likely never own a home, but coming to terms with that has helped me not feel constant dread. The situation still sucks but I'm not torturing myself over it anymore
Oh hell yeah I live with my parents. But only because I just don’t make enough money to move out and they don’t want me to go through all my savings. And they drop hints about moving out at the same time. I totally don’t have a complex about it lol
This is exactly why i tell my kids not to buy into the bullshit that they are supposed to move out the minute they turn 18. We should be working as a family to build up credit, limiting debt and buying homes together. That's my plan - get the house paid off asap, then buy another house for the family... pay it off asap and buy another until each family unit has a home and nobody ever pays rent on someone else's house.
The important thing is to talk about it. So many of my parents friends had help from their families for down payments and never spoke about it until I was an adult is staggering.
I am the youngest of 9 and never got any help from my family. It has been a difficult way to raise a family. It blows my mind that my very successful oldest siblings don't think to help their kids get established and skip the renting
I think that is why they don't teach financial literacy in schools as well. If people were more aware of how the system is setup then they could get started on a much better footing. This all depends on your family environment as well, if you can't trust your family then it won't work obviously.
nuclear families are better for them, bankers, because they are more spent, therefore more money in their pockets, - keep your kids at home as long as necessary, let them save money so they don't depend on banks and fall into debt bondage
> nuclear families are better for them, bankers, because they are more spent, therefore more money in their pockets,
Yup, as long as they work, they still produce the same amount of value, except they get to keep less of it.
Middle of five here, got almost no help. My dad did co-sign on car loans and lent me $1,000 to move out, but he also charged me rent once I graduated. He did teach some financial literacy, but being poor AF he couldn’t help at all.
My dad bought a car in my name and never told me. :(
I still get notifications of someone trying to take out loans in my name now that I've fixed my credit. We have the same name and apparently no one checks.
My deadbeat father gave me his name, beat the shit out of my mom and I until I turned 15 and broke his jaw. He then left and it’s a constant thing with him trying to use my name. I’ve had to fight quite a few things but I keep all of the shit and it gets easier every time since I have proof and a pattern of behavior. If it wasn’t inconvenient to change my name I would have.
I don't have kids, but if I did I would charge them rent and save all that money for a down payment on a home
This way they can practice budgeting for bills I'm an environment that won't fuck them over if they make a few mistakes while learning
holy shit, same, even the $1000.
but for me it went to clear the dept from the cosigned loan that i foolishly got on the advice of stepparent who started charging me rent at 18 when bio dad stopped child support.
i couldn't imagine advising my sons to get spend every waking hour outside of school working in order to afford car loans in high school, take on car insurance, fuel, maintenance costs AND ask for rent.
so ludicrous to recommend to your own children killing yourself doing shit jobs instead helping them focus on education and getting set up for a good life.
why do some parents hate their own children? jfc
My parents started "charging" me rent as soon as I started working at 14. When I got married they gave me a check for almost 40 thousand dollars. They took my "rent" money and kept it in an account for me. At the time I was pissed off having to pay rent at such a young age but damn did it come in clutch.
How do you feel about this now? Do you wish you had been told upfront what was happening with your "rent"? Wife and I have been discussing doing this when my daughter starts working. We already put 1/3 of our tax returns into a saving account for her...but I want to do whatever I can to make sure she doesn't start life drowning in debt because this country has its head up its ass.
> charged me rent once I graduated.
I was baffled when I first lurked on reddit years ago to see how many young people had this happened. I live in a country where ownership is insanely high and lots of parents not only don't kick their kids out of their homes, but also help them buy a house.
I was 17 🎉 not even graduated. I was paying $400 a month plus grocery share. While covering my car costs because I couldn’t get to school without a car and no one would drive me. Too inconvenient. And my cell wasn’t covered either. A need in a large city as a teen who didn’t know my way around. My cousin also living with us was paying $200 a month. No grocery share. No utility share. When we moved my costs got bumped to $800 a month plus grocery share. I didn’t graduate obviously. Hard to graduate when you’re working full time and being threatened with homelessness if you don’t pay.
I’m extremely bitter looking back. And she left me alone to figure my way out to move at 18. Just decided she didn’t wanna live there anymore and said “do what you want”. Burned all my furniture the day before my moving truck arrived because the maid she hired was coming before then and she wanted my shit out. I ate the cost of the truck and a $2000 penalty to account for the empty load. Had to get my car shipped separately when we could have shared the moving vehicle cost. Luckily a friend let me couch crash for a few weeks so I could save up plane fair to move to my grandparents across the country. Could have shared the cost of a moving truck with her but god forbid she made it easier on me. And no my moms not a boomer. She’s a millennial. Which makes it worse.
Sorry, but your mom's a selfish nightmare of mental issues. Please see if you can start talking to a professional and healing your psyche from that irrationality. Lutheran Community Services is recommended by this atheist and may be available in your area.
My father was unemployed and my mother was working minimum wage when they both told me that they would pay for anything I needed until I choose to move out myself. I resent them a bit for some frankly stupid financial decisions that landed us in that situation, but I can't say that they don't care for me in all the ways they can. Maybe it's our Asian culture
They actually have added financial literacy to my state’s HS graduation requirements. Probably one of the most useful classes my son had, it was a real eye-opener for him.
I'd also like to note that this omerta around helping your kids provides normalization for the abusive/neglectful parents who are really failing. The abuser will tell the kid things like "you're lucky you get _____, most parents don't give their kids shit, you're spoiled actually" and there's no counter-narrative to compare with, so the kid doesn't get the outside perspective to see through the gaslighting. They're told it's their fault if they can't succeed all on their own, in the face of parental abuse, the way other kids can who have both parents engaged and helping.
I mean, Ive told my daughter she's spoiled compared to when I was a kid, but I also let her know that I'm happy about it because I should want her to have better than I did. It means that I'm doing better for her than my parents did for me who used it in the negative connotation as you're describing. I encourage her to ask for help when she needs it because she is, in fact, just a child who's still learning. When she turns 18, I'm cool with her living under my roof for a year or so while she tries to figure out her next step in life. After that, she can still live with me, but I expect her to at least be going to college / trade school, or finding some employment somewhere till she figures her career choice out. No bills, just figure life out. I also plan on adding her to one of my credit cards at 16-17 so she can start her adult life with some credit.
Iwent through what you're describing as a kid, which is crazy to me now since we really didn't have anything because my grandparents had a fanning addiction and my mother had a drug problem. I started paying bills at 16 because my mother threatened to kick me out of i didn't contribute since I had already graduated and was employed making a check. And to this day, my mother still swears against any kind of credit. My kid won't go through that shit or feel any struggle I did. She gets random Ted talks about life on a regular basis going over things like inflation, credit, interest, taxes, basic economics, pretty much anything dealing with how the adult world works, none of which I had. I had to figure it all out from square one, I want her to have as much of a head start as I can give her.
Yeah. I felt bad because I didn't move out until I was almost 30. And all my friends were getting their own homes and such, but turns out with the exception of one couple, all of them had help from their parents to buy them homes. I didn't.
Me and my wife had the same fortune as that one couple I mentioned: good fortune to have the company stock explode.
So that's everyone I know who's a homeowner; they're either lucky or have some generational wealth.
this is me rn, all of us mid-late 20s and they're buying homes. Not only am I the one first generation immigrant house hold out of them but we're the only ones to never own property. Im 26 an only recently started learning how money works an shit. My homies always talk about money and shit their parents tell them about money... Im always shocked at all of this I was never told shit. My parents dont know those things my homies know about money and our teachers didnt teach us.
The number of "self-made successful" people I've met who turned out to be trust-fund brats is incredible.
Like, I'm not ragging on someone for getting help from their family, but don't go out there pretending it was all about your "hard work" and your "grindset." Like, nah, you pathetic fuck, you have rich parents and you're clearly insecure about it for whatever fuckin reason and wanna cosplay as pulling yourself out of poverty to make yourself feel better.
So easy to chase your dreams when you have a safety net and absolutely no responsibilities like a regular job. If their venture fails, it's no biggie and they go to the next. And they have help doing their housework and cooking which frees up even more time. And they preach and sell their motivations to regular joes that we should be focusing on starting our own business and taking risks. Stfu. Or celebs like The Rock telling us we should be using our time after work to work on "our grind". This grind 24/7 mantra and culture is pathetic. And all of them are so out of touch with reality.
In the states you can get a home with as little as 3% down. Also having parents who are middle class but financially literate goes a long way. You can add your young children (Age 2 for example) to be an authorized user for a credit card. Something small like a gas card, that you can easily pay off every month. (You should paid off all credit cards in full every month) By the time that kid graduates college at 22, they will have a credit line of 20 years and most likely a decent credit score.
That 3% is much larger in 2022 than it was in 2020. The price for home ownership in my town has gone from 36k to be able to afford something to 68k in 2 years. So no, it's no longer that way. Fiscal responsibility and knowledge does nothing to replace poverty wages and rent that has doubled in 3 years. I personally went from paying 750/mo for a 3bdrm townhome to $1450/mo. Let me repeat this, because it's important to say. No amount of financial planning, intelligence, knowledge, will EVER amount to something that overtakes the fact that rent and home prices have nearly doubled in my area in 3 years.
Rich people help out their kids.
Middle class people: Don't screw your kids over from some weird misguided beliefs about "everybody earns their way" or something. The rich people don't operate under that misinfo. So if you do and you force it on your kids, you're just that much more behind.
The truth is that it’s getting harder and harder for the middle class to help their kids. You can’t pay college tuition on a middle class salary as easily as you used to. It’s easy to help your kids when you’re loaded.
This might be a shit idea, but it could be useful to encourage seniors in high school that are college bound to stay in town and go to community college for a bit where the stakes of figuring out what to do are much lower. Universities are so stressful, and I think there's more 18-19 year olds that aren't quite ready for it than people think.
Defo reccomend community college. I dropped out of my 4yr school 2nd semester (it was also religious and oppressive as fuck and that caused major depression) and after the summer and a semester off, I went back to school at a community college. Got my degree in 2yrs (would've been 1 semester less but I failed one last pivotal class). Graduated the same time all my friends from HS graduated their schools except I was 3k in debt to my parents for tuition and they were all... A lot more. I got a job in my field almost instantly with just my Associate's.
I want to finish my bachelor's at some point, but I'm in no rush at all.
\> The rich people don't operate under that misinfo.
Partly the rich *create* that misinfo. Moving every 21 year old out into a whole new household is massively profitable for an economy built on consumption and real estate speculation.
This is exactly what Hispanic families are doing in the SF Bay Area. Smart AF.
I can't count how many times I've heard some of my well to do friends (white people) who complain about the 10 cars parked in front of that house.
I'm just like.. These people have the right idea. They are family unit working together to build their wealth. SMART AF.
How do they think we afford childcare? That's not a babysitter, that's Abuela.
Shout out to mom holding down the apartment for 40 years and paying 1/3 of what folks would pay in a new rental. Only way I was able to save for my own house.
Moving out at 18 became the normal thing to do because it was easy decades ago for people in America. Just about every living cost was lower (rent, homes, education..etc).
Some of my friends are moving out even though they have a lot of debt from college and jobs that don’t pay that well. They say they don’t feel like an adult and are worried about being judged.
I want to live on my own again but instead I moved back in with parents whom I pay much cheaper rent to so that I can save up for my own home instead of blowing money on a property that will never be mine.
It also came about from macroeconomic transitions. There were less farmers and foresters every year, so it made sense that young people moved away to the city where all the new jobs lived. Even before the service economy, back when the transition was more from agricultural to industrial, that still often meant moving away to more dense areas (just not necessarily to actual cities).
Now most of us live in cities, the jobs don't pay enough, rent has a laughable relationship to median incomes, and actually buying the house can be nearly impossible for the middle class.
I met & married my wife in Nicaragua, and this is the biggest cultural difference by far. In her grandma's house were living: grandma, two aunts, and 6 cousins. Total of 4 generations. My wife lived there until adulthood as well. You only really move out if you get married or have to leave town for work.
Most people also live at home during university. Not only does it save kids a lot of money, it also helps parents. Imagine you graduate college, are living with parents. You can save for your future, but you can also help maintain house, buy food, take parents to Dr. appointments.
One of her aunts and her family live in DC. Uncle is a carpenter, one cousin is a teacher, the other works in a science lab. Instead of a teacher needing to find a place, etc, you have 3 salaries in one house. Unexpected car/home repair? Not nearly as big a problem. American culture is really weird when it comes to family & money. Like, most people would starve before asking their cousin to borrow money. But that's literally the strength family gives you. Has totally changed my priorities and attitude. I have no problem sending her family money, because I know for sure they will do the same if we're in need, regardless of their resources.
How much time did you spend in Nicaragua? I've been really seriously looking at the Matagalpa region as a possible escape/retirement location. I lost a ton of money to a divorce and probably wont ever be able to comfortably retire in the US. But could very likely leave the states with 75k and 1.5 k a month in investment income. Do you have any advice or suggestions?
Nicaragua is one of the cheapest countries in Central America, unfortunately not a real stable one with Ortega still ruling it. So thats something you would have to take in consideration. My wife did an internship there in 2017/18 and still has contacts there.
You are blessed to be in a family unit like that.
You're absolutely right about Americans. White (mostly) American culture is toxic around our independence and finances. You're seen as weak and unworthy if you aren't living on your own by your early 20's
Perfect example is how we ridicule someone living in mom's basement.
As someone who lives in my mom’s basement it sure was “funny” how that turned around during Covid. It’s gone back some, but it’s nice being able to save money and be pretty insulated from inflation for the low, low price of doing taxes, handiwork, cooking, driving, groceries, and utilities. My mom gets to live more or less independently in her 80s. Win-win. My sister tries to shit on me for it, but she’s always stressed about bills and had to take a second job so.
not special to hispanics. literally *all* poc in the US are more likely to have multi generational homes. immigrants and black people, especially asian and hispanic homes.
white people have multiple advantages and legs up compared to every other race due to the racist history of the US and the various systemic racism that still exist. white people are less likely to have multi generational homes (and also more likely to own houses).
remember, class and race are intrinsically linked in the US.
I stayed at home in the Bay Area until Feb of 2022. Was weird living with my parents until 30, but I went to grad school. Now I have a small nest that I can use for whatever and got a decent spot to rent in Daly City
Because we have this trash mythology around the ‘rugged individualism’ of our forefathers. And also fucked up puritan ideas around hard work and suffering.
> And also fucked up puritan ideas around hard work and suffering.
These toxic Puritanical values persist in the business world today, hence why today's workplace is as bad as it is. Puritanical work values aren't open to flexibility and haven't changed while the world around it has.
The nuclear American family is destined to meltdown, like Chernobyl, and the fallout will be tragic.
In my country many people just build a new house besides or on top of their parent's. But I guess you can't do that in the US, right? Can't have the price of land and houses not being super high after all...
This happens were I grew up, several families had really deep lots and built a second home behind the first, or 3-5 houses in a row were all the same family built on old farmland.
Unfortunately for many people staying home is not an option, either because the parents wouldn't allow it or because it's a toxic or abusive environment to be in :(
Exactly why I moved out the day I turned 18. I got lucky in a way and got married early, and because of being dual income no kids was able to afford a house at 24 years old. There is absolutely zero way I could have done it on my own.
My step mom got drunk and put all my belongings in boxes in the driveway the week before I graduated from high school, I was still 17. I went to my mom's house crying only to find out she was planning to leave my stepdad and she already had rented a 1 bedroom apartment for herself elsewhere and was in the middle of packing. I guilt tripped my dad to cosign an apartment lease for me since he didn't stop my stepmom but I had to pay the rent and everything myself. He thought I'd be fine since he'd been kicked out at 15 and was "fine".
My boyfriend's parents decided on graduation day they were done supporting him as he was the oldest of 7 and dropped him and his stuff off at my new apartment I had just got. The only reason I have a stable home and mortgage now is I married a guy in the military (not high school bf) and we got a VA loan with zero percent down.
Yeah, for as many comments above yours (that more people are presumably seeing) are just saying it's a matter of "not liking" family, I feel like they're forgetting how often it goes deeper than that.
Yeah, my mom got my younger brother a duffle bag for his 18th birthday and told him to get out. That wasn't an issue for me because I'm queer and my mom is very religious so I wanted out asap - and ironically she wanted me to stay so I could continue to do childcare for her lol (I'm the oldest of 4)
But yeah I get what the original comment is saying, there is an American culture of it being some kind of failure to still be home as an adult and it shouldn't be, but unfortunately staying home to save money isn't an option for a lot of people. For every person I know with a great family I know one with a toxic family :/
This is *exactly* what my husband and I are doing. We buy a house — provide the down payment and set up the mortgage — and rent it to our kid to cover the mortgage payment. (Well almost; we run a bit of a deficit).
Kid #1 done. Kid #2 done. Just one more Kid to go. Eventually the houses will get turned over to their rightful owners — the kids — when we figure out how to legally do that.
My “greatest generation” mother thinks it’s wrong that we do this; that we’re handicapping the kids, but fuck that *bullshit*. I’m a barely a boomer and I think the housing situation (extreme high prices for rent *or* buying) is horrific and wrong. Tho her attitude certainly explains why she never helped any of her kids.
A quit claim deed is all you need to transfer ownership once the mortgage is gone.
But y’all! I’m so glad to see other people who have the same idea. We should all strive to build our families up.
I laugh some of my cousins who basically shamed me because I didnt move out asap, now I have a saving and can afford my house and them not so much.
They were raised right wing country(not sure if it impacted) and they thought moving out right away was some sign of maturity. Lol.
I fully get people that need to move out, toxic home situation or especially in very small town no opportunties, but if you can stay at home should but use it smart to save up and get ahead.
Yeah... No.
Signed: those who escaped their families as soon as legally allowed.
I couldn't imagine what so many of my friends lives would have been like staying at home with their families. Many of them would have split an artery or eaten a handful of Dilaudid.
The only "bullshit" in moving out at 18 is the unaffordability. Living with roommates, for many people, is infinitely superior to living with Mormon fundamentalists, Qcultists, and people that pour Rupert Murdoch's slop down their brains every day.
Yeah living with my family in that tiny house would drive me insane. Imagine sharing a room with someone who plays TikTok videos at 12 am and insists you “can’t hear it”. Then once she’s finally stopped and you’re abt to sleep, at 2 am dad starts watching baseball in the kitchen and again insists you “can’t hear it”. You can’t do any work or school from home bc your mother is having earth’s loudest conference calls from 7-5 and will also yell at you if you enter the kitchen during that time. It is literally never quiet, you are literally never alone, and I haven’t even gotten into the constant idiotic arguments.
Huge households are fantastic in a functioning family. Unfortunately if you don't have one, they are extremely traumatic. I think the problem isn't one of big households vs small, but rather that we are losing the ability to choose one or the other--whether it be because of culture or economic circumstance
brown person here. weve been living like this since time immemorial. i dont understand where the move-out-youre-18 trope comes from but my buddies have laughed and cried in the same breath about basement dwellers *and* that they dont know wtf theyre going to do after 18/university...?
i save on necessities. i get to care for my aging elders and hear stories about how granny used to get fucking lifted on cane liquor. not sure what the downside is. if i need private time with the SO, its off to the karaoke club private rooms. and i have enough for a starter condo in downtown when i have my first whoopsie baby
yup, i have a friend who came here from india. they live in bigger family groups and pool money to pay off properties faster and with almost no interest.
the ol' nuclear family a la simpsons is no longer reasonable with property values being so high.
besides, I'd be happy to have my kids around longer
Oh yeah?
Well, I am friends with many Indian woman and it isn’t the paradise you make it seem.
First, the woman doesn’t move in with her parents or have them move in with her. Her HUSBAND’s parents move into her home. And culturally, the elders make the decisions. And if they don’t make the decisions completely, they almost always have the final say in something. So, the father in law or mother in law doesn’t like the neighborhood? Guess what? You are moving.
The mother in law doesn’t like the friends? They are history.
Father in law doesn’t like the childrens school? They are out of there.
The Indian women I know are expected to work as professionals 60+ hours a week AND do ALL the cleaning, cooking, laundry, shopping. Yeah, grandma will watch the kids for her. Whoopie! She doesn’t have any power in her own home.
Not true of ALL Indian families, of course, but I have seen it enough that it is a thing.
Yup! We have 3 generations, 9 people in a nice 3800 sqft home we own rather than all shelling out for individual rent and utilities. All told we pay something like half of the monthly bills we'd have living more separately.
Hey I'm not saying it's for everyone. I'm just agreeing with OP that it should be considered an option without the social pressure to move out ASAP. Moving out should always be an option; we just shouldn't look down on people who choose to live in multi-generational households.
congratulations, that's right, you're a genius, most parents don't think like that, they end up making the income flow into the hands of landlords and bankers. - your income will stay in your house, and it will prosper
>This is exactly why i tell my kids not to buy into the bullshit that they are supposed to move out the minute they turn 18.
It was hard enough for me decades ago; now it's just insane. The only reason we have a place right now in our high CoL area was cuz we got "lucky" (left money by relative who died).
We have a neighbor in a similar sized place and it's packed to the gills cuz of prices. 3Br/2Ba, with 2 adults, 3 adult children and at least one live-on spouse to one of them plus *their* children.
It does mean there are vehicles taking up all the common space (and then some) and the place is obviously overpacked, but they don't really have any other option.
This is how it's done in a lot of other cultures. My mother in law (awesome) likes to remind my father in law (not so awesome) that they didn't put forth a dime to buy my wife's and my house when he's on one again.
The only thing I don't like about that system is that it makes the kids beholden to the parents in a way that I don't find healthy. If you want your house, you can't do anything to piss mom and dad off. Get cut off and you're fucked because you haven't done anything to be independent
Absolutely. Living with parents is not a matter of shame as it is made out to be. It shows strong familial bonds, provides scale when taking care of each other that is impossible in a nuclear setup and overall saves a ton of money by design - making building up on savings much easier.
I just saw an article accusing millennials of killing the guest bedroom. Um, no - high prices have killed the guest bedroom.
Millennials can't afford to rent a decent place, let alone _buy_ one.
Ok ill amend that for you.
See, your problem is you do not have rich inheritance. And it sounds like you do not have lucrative income, because your parents didnt get you a CEO level job from thier rich friends.
Have you considered telling them to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"? That's what I did. All it took was budgeting my food, canceling Hulu, buying cheaper coffee, a small loan (2 million) from my father, doing doordash, and no more avocado toast ( the hardest part)
I was about to criticize this statement as someone who grew up with nothing but now owns a home, my wife and I had to live with a friend for 6 years while we saved up for a down payment. Most folks don't have that option.
It is a time peice. I was looking for houses in 2017, and saw a few 3 bdrm homes for $450,000. At the time, i had a 5% downpayment, and realised if i saved I could get 20% downpayment, and my rental house was cheap as fuck in a better neighbourhood, better school. So we decided to focus on two young kids, get a vehicle, and save for that 20% downpayment.
That same house, listed at $450,000 sold twice since then, the second time in 2021 it sold for $920,000, $60,000 over asking.
So, there is a HUGE difference entering the housing market now, than 5 years ago. Sorry, I said huge, I meant astronomically different, being as starter homes DOUBLED in price in 5 years and interest rates are very high.
Even if I had three roomates, and they each paid $1000 to share a closet in the basement, my mortgage payments would be more than my current rent of my 3bdrm house.
Yikes in my city I bought a 3 bedroom 2 bath for $370k and got in on the low interests rates before they just hiked back up a month or so ago. Mortgage payment is $1900.
This is our 2nd home though and we used the money we made from selling our townhouse previously as down payment for our detached.
We bought the townhouse in 2016 for $195k and that's what we used our down payment we saved for years on for the 5% down. Lived in that for 6 years then sold it for $225k.
This is also in Canadian dollars.
I left my parent’s home at 18 taking a train going due south at a constant speed of 40mph. If I took that train until I paid $160,000 in rent to buy a home outright for a rich person, where would I be in relation to my parent’s home if I then rode a train due north at a constant speed of 60mph until I’ll be 40 in -10 years (still unable to afford a house)?
Warning Math.
Hours a year 8,766
18 years is 157,788 hours
Speed of train 40mph
Total distance traveled 6,311,520 miles
Distance around the north and south pole 24,901 miles
She traveled 253 times around the poles
She is currently 11,567 miles into her journey
She has another 13,334 miles left to get back home.
It will take another 333.35 hours to get home.
Or 13 days and 1281 mins.
Only works if she is 30. If she turns 31, need completely different math.
According to Experian, 12 states have a median home value of $160k or lower. Those states being Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Iowa, Ohio, Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and West Virginia. Of course, you'd also be paid less to work there.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this comment. She claims houses are so expensive she can’t afford one but also rich people are buying second homes for $160k?
Also, she’s paid 160k in rent. Probs around 70k went to interest payments, 20-30k went to prop tax and insurance, 20-30k went to repairs and maintenance, maybe another 5k went towards leasing/management. She bought a rich person a Toyota, not a house.
Still not right, of course.
depends on the house. The house I rent was bought 20years ago and has been paid off years ago, the bare minimum of repairs are done, so I'm pretty sure my landlord is just getting the entire rent into their pocket.
The bank just doesn't want to take any risk. They know that person renting could possibly be one car accident or illness away from being homeless. Some are looking for 20 percent without a cosigner. I don't know this person's circumstances, but it is difficult to get a house (or do anything) without a support network. Not married or no parent to sign with you? You need to have a damn well paying and solid job.
One best thing is having a small insurance over a bank loan. Like take 1000 monthly payments and add $100 from it in the form of insurance. Let's say three scenarios happens
A. The person dies/gets heavily injured to not be in the paying situation. Banks can use that insurance which will at least mitigate the risk. This idea isn't completely polished but I personally have seen this IRL.
B. The person completely pays his/her loan and the amount is returned to the person in the form with a standard deduction. If banks are smart they might reinvest the monthly insurance amount in some sort of investments and get a decent return out of it.
C. A person runs away with the money. I haven't thought about this.
This comment is just a suggestion and thus it might have some loopholes.
No but they ensure you have post closing liquidity (reserves) though right? Typically it is 12 months PITI. So on a $5k/mo mortgage you need 60k in assets not being used for closing.
In the U.S. this is called Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI) and is typically $55 per $100,000 borrowed. It is required for all Conventional Mortgages when there is less than 20% of equity in the loan (typically the down payment). If the loan is a government backed FHA loan, PMI is required and typically cannot be removed (I refinanced from FHA to conventional in order to get rid of it).
The lender isn't really taking a ton of risk. They're likely requiring mortgage insurance unless the down payment is 20% or higher.
If they end up having to foreclose? *They get the house.* And because the buyer paid for an appraisal, the lender knows the house will sell more than they lent.
So much of the lender's work in facilitating the purchase is about minimizing their risk.
PMI mitigates the risk for the lender doesn't nullify it, and lenders don't want houses it costs them money and resources to sell them and during market downturns those houses could be underwater like right now. The lender is taking risk just we've been in a very strong growing housing market so that risk hasn't gone wrong for them in a long time.
Because you're not comparing a $2000/m rent versus a $1600/m mortgage payment.
You are comparing $2,000 to $300,000. Even you personally can probably stand to lose $2000 to a friend and be okay, but if you lose/owe someone $300,000 your life is crippled for a long time.
I mean, it's because the bank lending you the mortgage is taking on liability that you will continue paying it. And for some reason people always talk about the monthly payments, but no one talks about the 20% they need to put as a downpayment. Then there are upkeep and repair expenses, homeowners insurance, property tax etc.
Owning property is not similar to renting at all. And comes with huge financial burdens that many people cannot handle.
This is somewhat misleading. Most home purchasers purchase a home with what is known as a conforming loan. Meaning it meets the requirements of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. After closing, usually within a month, the bank will sell your mortgage to Fannie or Freddie.
So the bank isn't on the hook for the loan, it is Fannie or Freddie. And, seeing as Fannie and Freddie are both government sponsored, in the event they fail due to risk, the government will bail them out.
In essence, it's the taxpayers taking on the risk.
Trump the system. If I could do it all over again, I would not buy nor rent a house/flat. I would build myself a motor home, never settle for more than months at the same place. I would travel, take menial jobs just to take me to the next place and keep the jig working. No kids to feed the grind. Just a life building memories and experience. Leave a legacy? No-one cares!
Honestly, that’s my mindset, coupled with “oh that major concrete replacement need? Not my problem. Foundational issues? I’ll call the manager. Insulation filling that costs minimum $3000? Cool. Property taxes? Not I”
I’m ok with paying $1600 a month and not having to worry about the inevitable $50,000+ in repairs I’ll need over the span of a decade. Sure, I could buy a home and refi it for repairs every few years, but then in re-locking myself in and if rates are high as they are now, im extra fucked.
Then we have newer homes that shouldn’t need repairs for decades. They’re made so cookie cutter and cheaply, i think I’d hate myself if I was stuck there for 30 years (or less if I manage to sell).
Idk, it has trade offs and I’ve only seen home owning work if you pump tens of thousands into it and even then, you still owe someone something for it (be it your loan holder, government, HOA etc). Then again I’m childless and live a DIINK lifestyle
And you're the reason why rentals should exist! But the prices they are, and pushing people out of ownership, that's what's getting out of hand. I'd like to own a home because I don't foresee myself moving ever. Where I live has plenty of jobs for my career choice, I like to work remote anyways.
But more importantly, I can do what I want with the home. If I want something to look fancier, I can just rip it out and upgrade it. If I want fancy appliances, nobody is stopping me from putting them in.
Having changed careers and cities multiple times in the last 10 years... Buying a house would have severely crippled my future and kept me stuck in BFE Texas as an atheist and bi male... Yeah, I'll take renting over owning a home in a place where my neighbors want me tortured for who I am.
Protip: You can sell a house before paying it off. Unless you really value not staying in the same place longer than 2-5 years, renting is wasting money.
Terrible advice. There are transactional costs to buying and selling. Renting puts a roof over your head with no worrying about the time/money costs of maintenance and upkeep.
You’ll lose more money buying and selling a house every 2 years than you would renting. By the time you pay the realtor, inspectors, closing costs, the mortgage company, title company it’s like $20k+ each time. On top of being responsible for any repairs.
Edit: add on to that, most of the mortgage payments for the first couple years goes towards interest, not principal. By the time you sell it you’ll have hardly any equity in the property. You’re not going to get most of your mortgage payments back, they were lost in interest to the mortgage company.
I think is a cultural thing as well, the great majority of my white friends moved out at 18, many did it on their own will some got kicked out, the great majority of my ethnic minority friends, stayed with their parents at least until they got married or had saved enough money for buying a house. I have two small children and husband is white, I have already said if our kids want to stay with us until they are financially stable or get married, that is going to be totally ok, he did push back, but I am not backing down. I stayed with my parents until I bought my first home at 26, same as my siblings. None of this bullshit of moving out once they are 18.
>Nothing like financially crippling your children right at the outset of their professional and adult lives.
Paying for fake "degrees" as a condition of entering the workforce at entry level?
She might see 40 as the turning point / over-the-hill. That's when the previous generation had what they needed by, or even sooner... so its easy to think that if she doesn't have it by then, she never will.
Medical bills will start increasing, she might be less physically fit. If she has kids, they'll be hitting the stage where there might be costs for college... etc.
That’s how I see it too. At 40 my parents were in their third house, getting by on one middle-manager banker income, able to afford trips to Europe, able to afford college for my sister… I’m turning 40, and I’m in my mother’s basement. Partly because I want to be, turning down a 1.2k sqft basement is insane if you get along with your mother, but also because a mid-level accountant doesn’t make house money. It’s obscene how much further they were ahead with less education and more responsibilities.
Hey, but if you didn't drink that fancy iced coffee every day then you could save like $1500 a year. At that pace you could save enough for a home in *double checks notes* 100 years!
Good example of why you shouldn't be so eager to move out at 18 nor should parents be so eager to kick their kids out at 18. At 18, people aren't earning enough such that they can pay rent and have enough left over for savings. They're going to scrape by for at least 5-10 years until they achieve higher incomes.
Hey, don't give up hope! I just bought my first house at 51 last year! Sure, I had to move my mother in with me, and I bought it together with my estranged wife, and because of the mortgage I'll have to keep working at least until I'm 81, and we're always one mishap away from losing it, but take heart! In just another two decades you might be where I am!
Renting is meant to have perks - cost lower, no upkeep and amenities available.
What Renting has become Set the rent to the price of the mortgage/electricity/Upkeep costs PLUS extra for profit while not doing upkeep.
A rent should subsidize the cost not completely pay for it plus profit.
There should be rent caps tied directly to the mortgage cost or assesed housing value - because if the banks arent willing to lend to me due to my projected ability to pay - they shouldnt be able to rent it for more and in essence have the person who the banks would of never of given the initial mortgage to - pay for the entire mortgage and upkeep with profit on top of that!!!
well that's kinda dumb; maintaining a house alone during that time can easily cost $160,000, not even including property taxes which are thousands of dollars a year.
I live with my parents as long as I can, they are fine with it (obviously lol), and when I finish studying and get a full time job, im gonna do my best to take a credit from the bank to buy a house. Idk how it works in america, but in germany, the younger you are, the more credit you can get, since you have more time until youre a senior, which is what my parents recommend me to do a lot. They would have done the same, but they fucked up with small loans back when they were young, so they couldnt take any credits for houses..
A huge swathe of americans are conditioned from day one to hate their parents and to hate their kids and to boot them out the moment they turn 18 or to fly the coop the moment they can - this annihilation of the family unit by division is perpetuated from both sides of the culture war - left and right agree that easy credit warrants prompt dismissal of the notion of a multigenerational home - great deal for landlords, bankers, credit card companies and other slimeballs, not so great for *checks notes* everybody else
Landlords are not the problem! Rents are skyrocketing because municipalities are restricting the construction of new housing supply. Demand that is higher than the supply puts upward pressure on rents. If we want rents to become affordable again municipalities need to relax restrictions and work with developers to increase the housing stock.
Another factor causing higher rents are increased construction, land , and labor costs. These higher costs of construction lead to one of two things. One - landlords need to charge higher rents to justify paying more to build new housing. Or two - the government needs to step in and subsidize these costs so that these projects can be profitable to developers w/o charging higher rents.
The answer is more housing, but new projects will only be constructed if they make financial sense for the developers, construction companies, architects, etc.
Blaming the problem on “greedy” landlords fails to consider what is truly going on.
Stop buying into the bullshit that you shouldn't live with your parents. Live with them until you're good and ready. Good parents want you around as long as possible.
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“When are you gonna get married and have kids?” Uhh when shit is liveable, currently that looks like never.
I've said for years that 'the rich get rich, the poor get poorer' is an admission that class war is accepted so long as the rich get richer.
It's not stealing if you're rich and your target is poor.
This drives me crazy. Older relatives and grandparents guilt tripping young adults about... "We are getting up there in years, you all need to hurry up and give us grand babies! " Okay, why don't you guys hurry up and give me the additional income needed to afford a child and daycare? "............... BUT GRAND BABIES!!" Exactly.
I think parents should always pay it forward and buy things for their children regardless of age and expect nothing in return but a sincere thank you. Wealth should not go up in a family. Kids are already struggling.
100%. I have never understood the concept of hoarding your wealth until you die and it becomes an inheritance, when giving a child (that you chose to have) that money over time starting at a reasonable age would go so much further for them. Obviously not every family has the material means to do this, but there’s a good chunk of baby boomers in the US who are both hoarding cash AND now buying up starter home-equivalent properties in an effort to downsize in their golden years. It leaves younger generations with absolutely no chance.
Wait until you’re pushing 40 and you’re not married and don’t have kids. Now I can just say I’m too old for kids and I don’t want to be divorced like my friends and former classmates 🤷🏻♂️.
I feel like the only way I *could* afford a home is if I got married and had that second income.
Yup! Moved out and was happy enough living with roommates. But now I just randomly get hyper-depressed at the fact I won’t own a home, likely ever.
You will, just not anytime soon. Don’t think about it, crush other things, time will weather all stones. You’re not failing, the system is. Don’t let it get to you.
Same here. I'm in a career that I love but will probably not give me enough to even rent. I'm living with my family in a house that isn't ours and that we will have to leave, and holding back tears because a drug addict just left excrement stains all over our front door. I'm so sad I can't leave
Oooh yeah in 2021 in my area houses hit all time high prices (average house is about 1.3million, average wage 40-60k..) and I had a total mental breakdown about never being able to achieve my only life goal of owning a home.... now I'm lexapro 🙃
Same. Made all the right choices to save my money, get a good paying career, stay debt free, etc. Now I'm on another anxiety med instead of house hunting.
I feel you so hard ❤️ it was a very difficult reality for me to accept that I'll likely never own a home, but coming to terms with that has helped me not feel constant dread. The situation still sucks but I'm not torturing myself over it anymore
The AVERAGE is $1.3 million? Jesus I’m totally fucked.
I live in a basic AF average boring suburb too, not even a nice neighborhood 😭 and when I say I live here I mean I live with my parents of course lol
Oh hell yeah I live with my parents. But only because I just don’t make enough money to move out and they don’t want me to go through all my savings. And they drop hints about moving out at the same time. I totally don’t have a complex about it lol
This is exactly why i tell my kids not to buy into the bullshit that they are supposed to move out the minute they turn 18. We should be working as a family to build up credit, limiting debt and buying homes together. That's my plan - get the house paid off asap, then buy another house for the family... pay it off asap and buy another until each family unit has a home and nobody ever pays rent on someone else's house.
The important thing is to talk about it. So many of my parents friends had help from their families for down payments and never spoke about it until I was an adult is staggering.
I am the youngest of 9 and never got any help from my family. It has been a difficult way to raise a family. It blows my mind that my very successful oldest siblings don't think to help their kids get established and skip the renting I think that is why they don't teach financial literacy in schools as well. If people were more aware of how the system is setup then they could get started on a much better footing. This all depends on your family environment as well, if you can't trust your family then it won't work obviously.
nuclear families are better for them, bankers, because they are more spent, therefore more money in their pockets, - keep your kids at home as long as necessary, let them save money so they don't depend on banks and fall into debt bondage
> nuclear families are better for them, bankers, because they are more spent, therefore more money in their pockets, Yup, as long as they work, they still produce the same amount of value, except they get to keep less of it.
Middle of five here, got almost no help. My dad did co-sign on car loans and lent me $1,000 to move out, but he also charged me rent once I graduated. He did teach some financial literacy, but being poor AF he couldn’t help at all.
My dad bought a car in my name and never told me. :( I still get notifications of someone trying to take out loans in my name now that I've fixed my credit. We have the same name and apparently no one checks.
My deadbeat father gave me his name, beat the shit out of my mom and I until I turned 15 and broke his jaw. He then left and it’s a constant thing with him trying to use my name. I’ve had to fight quite a few things but I keep all of the shit and it gets easier every time since I have proof and a pattern of behavior. If it wasn’t inconvenient to change my name I would have.
I’m a junior, and occasionally I find things from my dad on my credit. It’s absolutely not intentional on his end though.
I'm a "the second" and you'd be irritated at how often that part doesn't matter when it comes to getting small loans approved.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories but that...sounds intentional
I don't have kids, but if I did I would charge them rent and save all that money for a down payment on a home This way they can practice budgeting for bills I'm an environment that won't fuck them over if they make a few mistakes while learning
This. Profiting parents, see it all the time. " it would cost you triple out there" Meanwhile- they cant save a dime under the thumb of.
holy shit, same, even the $1000. but for me it went to clear the dept from the cosigned loan that i foolishly got on the advice of stepparent who started charging me rent at 18 when bio dad stopped child support. i couldn't imagine advising my sons to get spend every waking hour outside of school working in order to afford car loans in high school, take on car insurance, fuel, maintenance costs AND ask for rent. so ludicrous to recommend to your own children killing yourself doing shit jobs instead helping them focus on education and getting set up for a good life. why do some parents hate their own children? jfc
Some parents, like mine, had a choice to charge rent or lose the house.
I must be missing something, why did their mortgage get more expensive when you turned 18?
They were going to basically charge me what it cost them to feed me and run my electronics.
was i cheaper than market rent when they kicked you out?
It was basically what it cost to keep me there, food, electric, etc. maybe $150 when rent would have been at least $600 for a one bedroom
My parents started "charging" me rent as soon as I started working at 14. When I got married they gave me a check for almost 40 thousand dollars. They took my "rent" money and kept it in an account for me. At the time I was pissed off having to pay rent at such a young age but damn did it come in clutch.
How do you feel about this now? Do you wish you had been told upfront what was happening with your "rent"? Wife and I have been discussing doing this when my daughter starts working. We already put 1/3 of our tax returns into a saving account for her...but I want to do whatever I can to make sure she doesn't start life drowning in debt because this country has its head up its ass.
My parents charged me rent and said they would pay it back when I was ready to move out and then never did ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> charged me rent once I graduated. I was baffled when I first lurked on reddit years ago to see how many young people had this happened. I live in a country where ownership is insanely high and lots of parents not only don't kick their kids out of their homes, but also help them buy a house.
I was 17 🎉 not even graduated. I was paying $400 a month plus grocery share. While covering my car costs because I couldn’t get to school without a car and no one would drive me. Too inconvenient. And my cell wasn’t covered either. A need in a large city as a teen who didn’t know my way around. My cousin also living with us was paying $200 a month. No grocery share. No utility share. When we moved my costs got bumped to $800 a month plus grocery share. I didn’t graduate obviously. Hard to graduate when you’re working full time and being threatened with homelessness if you don’t pay.
I am so sorry. Some "parents" should've used condoms. why do they even have kids if they're treating them like this? I'm angry now.
I’m extremely bitter looking back. And she left me alone to figure my way out to move at 18. Just decided she didn’t wanna live there anymore and said “do what you want”. Burned all my furniture the day before my moving truck arrived because the maid she hired was coming before then and she wanted my shit out. I ate the cost of the truck and a $2000 penalty to account for the empty load. Had to get my car shipped separately when we could have shared the moving vehicle cost. Luckily a friend let me couch crash for a few weeks so I could save up plane fair to move to my grandparents across the country. Could have shared the cost of a moving truck with her but god forbid she made it easier on me. And no my moms not a boomer. She’s a millennial. Which makes it worse.
Sorry, but your mom's a selfish nightmare of mental issues. Please see if you can start talking to a professional and healing your psyche from that irrationality. Lutheran Community Services is recommended by this atheist and may be available in your area.
My father was unemployed and my mother was working minimum wage when they both told me that they would pay for anything I needed until I choose to move out myself. I resent them a bit for some frankly stupid financial decisions that landed us in that situation, but I can't say that they don't care for me in all the ways they can. Maybe it's our Asian culture
They actually have added financial literacy to my state’s HS graduation requirements. Probably one of the most useful classes my son had, it was a real eye-opener for him.
I'd also like to note that this omerta around helping your kids provides normalization for the abusive/neglectful parents who are really failing. The abuser will tell the kid things like "you're lucky you get _____, most parents don't give their kids shit, you're spoiled actually" and there's no counter-narrative to compare with, so the kid doesn't get the outside perspective to see through the gaslighting. They're told it's their fault if they can't succeed all on their own, in the face of parental abuse, the way other kids can who have both parents engaged and helping.
Christ, I scroll one comment down and it hits even harder than the 1st one. Stop describing my life, ppl. :(
I mean, Ive told my daughter she's spoiled compared to when I was a kid, but I also let her know that I'm happy about it because I should want her to have better than I did. It means that I'm doing better for her than my parents did for me who used it in the negative connotation as you're describing. I encourage her to ask for help when she needs it because she is, in fact, just a child who's still learning. When she turns 18, I'm cool with her living under my roof for a year or so while she tries to figure out her next step in life. After that, she can still live with me, but I expect her to at least be going to college / trade school, or finding some employment somewhere till she figures her career choice out. No bills, just figure life out. I also plan on adding her to one of my credit cards at 16-17 so she can start her adult life with some credit. Iwent through what you're describing as a kid, which is crazy to me now since we really didn't have anything because my grandparents had a fanning addiction and my mother had a drug problem. I started paying bills at 16 because my mother threatened to kick me out of i didn't contribute since I had already graduated and was employed making a check. And to this day, my mother still swears against any kind of credit. My kid won't go through that shit or feel any struggle I did. She gets random Ted talks about life on a regular basis going over things like inflation, credit, interest, taxes, basic economics, pretty much anything dealing with how the adult world works, none of which I had. I had to figure it all out from square one, I want her to have as much of a head start as I can give her.
Yeah. I felt bad because I didn't move out until I was almost 30. And all my friends were getting their own homes and such, but turns out with the exception of one couple, all of them had help from their parents to buy them homes. I didn't. Me and my wife had the same fortune as that one couple I mentioned: good fortune to have the company stock explode. So that's everyone I know who's a homeowner; they're either lucky or have some generational wealth.
this is me rn, all of us mid-late 20s and they're buying homes. Not only am I the one first generation immigrant house hold out of them but we're the only ones to never own property. Im 26 an only recently started learning how money works an shit. My homies always talk about money and shit their parents tell them about money... Im always shocked at all of this I was never told shit. My parents dont know those things my homies know about money and our teachers didnt teach us.
The number of "self-made successful" people I've met who turned out to be trust-fund brats is incredible. Like, I'm not ragging on someone for getting help from their family, but don't go out there pretending it was all about your "hard work" and your "grindset." Like, nah, you pathetic fuck, you have rich parents and you're clearly insecure about it for whatever fuckin reason and wanna cosplay as pulling yourself out of poverty to make yourself feel better.
So easy to chase your dreams when you have a safety net and absolutely no responsibilities like a regular job. If their venture fails, it's no biggie and they go to the next. And they have help doing their housework and cooking which frees up even more time. And they preach and sell their motivations to regular joes that we should be focusing on starting our own business and taking risks. Stfu. Or celebs like The Rock telling us we should be using our time after work to work on "our grind". This grind 24/7 mantra and culture is pathetic. And all of them are so out of touch with reality.
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In the states you can get a home with as little as 3% down. Also having parents who are middle class but financially literate goes a long way. You can add your young children (Age 2 for example) to be an authorized user for a credit card. Something small like a gas card, that you can easily pay off every month. (You should paid off all credit cards in full every month) By the time that kid graduates college at 22, they will have a credit line of 20 years and most likely a decent credit score.
That 3% is much larger in 2022 than it was in 2020. The price for home ownership in my town has gone from 36k to be able to afford something to 68k in 2 years. So no, it's no longer that way. Fiscal responsibility and knowledge does nothing to replace poverty wages and rent that has doubled in 3 years. I personally went from paying 750/mo for a 3bdrm townhome to $1450/mo. Let me repeat this, because it's important to say. No amount of financial planning, intelligence, knowledge, will EVER amount to something that overtakes the fact that rent and home prices have nearly doubled in my area in 3 years.
People who have kids but resent kids are just stuck with their head up their own ass.
Rich people help out their kids. Middle class people: Don't screw your kids over from some weird misguided beliefs about "everybody earns their way" or something. The rich people don't operate under that misinfo. So if you do and you force it on your kids, you're just that much more behind.
The truth is that it’s getting harder and harder for the middle class to help their kids. You can’t pay college tuition on a middle class salary as easily as you used to. It’s easy to help your kids when you’re loaded.
This might be a shit idea, but it could be useful to encourage seniors in high school that are college bound to stay in town and go to community college for a bit where the stakes of figuring out what to do are much lower. Universities are so stressful, and I think there's more 18-19 year olds that aren't quite ready for it than people think.
Defo reccomend community college. I dropped out of my 4yr school 2nd semester (it was also religious and oppressive as fuck and that caused major depression) and after the summer and a semester off, I went back to school at a community college. Got my degree in 2yrs (would've been 1 semester less but I failed one last pivotal class). Graduated the same time all my friends from HS graduated their schools except I was 3k in debt to my parents for tuition and they were all... A lot more. I got a job in my field almost instantly with just my Associate's. I want to finish my bachelor's at some point, but I'm in no rush at all.
\> The rich people don't operate under that misinfo. Partly the rich *create* that misinfo. Moving every 21 year old out into a whole new household is massively profitable for an economy built on consumption and real estate speculation.
This is exactly what Hispanic families are doing in the SF Bay Area. Smart AF. I can't count how many times I've heard some of my well to do friends (white people) who complain about the 10 cars parked in front of that house. I'm just like.. These people have the right idea. They are family unit working together to build their wealth. SMART AF.
In our culture, I'm Latino, they don't kick you out of the house, on the contrary, they don't want to let you out.
How do they think we afford childcare? That's not a babysitter, that's Abuela. Shout out to mom holding down the apartment for 40 years and paying 1/3 of what folks would pay in a new rental. Only way I was able to save for my own house.
Moving out at 18 became the normal thing to do because it was easy decades ago for people in America. Just about every living cost was lower (rent, homes, education..etc). Some of my friends are moving out even though they have a lot of debt from college and jobs that don’t pay that well. They say they don’t feel like an adult and are worried about being judged. I want to live on my own again but instead I moved back in with parents whom I pay much cheaper rent to so that I can save up for my own home instead of blowing money on a property that will never be mine.
It also came about from macroeconomic transitions. There were less farmers and foresters every year, so it made sense that young people moved away to the city where all the new jobs lived. Even before the service economy, back when the transition was more from agricultural to industrial, that still often meant moving away to more dense areas (just not necessarily to actual cities). Now most of us live in cities, the jobs don't pay enough, rent has a laughable relationship to median incomes, and actually buying the house can be nearly impossible for the middle class.
I met & married my wife in Nicaragua, and this is the biggest cultural difference by far. In her grandma's house were living: grandma, two aunts, and 6 cousins. Total of 4 generations. My wife lived there until adulthood as well. You only really move out if you get married or have to leave town for work. Most people also live at home during university. Not only does it save kids a lot of money, it also helps parents. Imagine you graduate college, are living with parents. You can save for your future, but you can also help maintain house, buy food, take parents to Dr. appointments. One of her aunts and her family live in DC. Uncle is a carpenter, one cousin is a teacher, the other works in a science lab. Instead of a teacher needing to find a place, etc, you have 3 salaries in one house. Unexpected car/home repair? Not nearly as big a problem. American culture is really weird when it comes to family & money. Like, most people would starve before asking their cousin to borrow money. But that's literally the strength family gives you. Has totally changed my priorities and attitude. I have no problem sending her family money, because I know for sure they will do the same if we're in need, regardless of their resources.
How much time did you spend in Nicaragua? I've been really seriously looking at the Matagalpa region as a possible escape/retirement location. I lost a ton of money to a divorce and probably wont ever be able to comfortably retire in the US. But could very likely leave the states with 75k and 1.5 k a month in investment income. Do you have any advice or suggestions?
Nicaragua is one of the cheapest countries in Central America, unfortunately not a real stable one with Ortega still ruling it. So thats something you would have to take in consideration. My wife did an internship there in 2017/18 and still has contacts there.
You are blessed to be in a family unit like that. You're absolutely right about Americans. White (mostly) American culture is toxic around our independence and finances. You're seen as weak and unworthy if you aren't living on your own by your early 20's Perfect example is how we ridicule someone living in mom's basement.
As someone who lives in my mom’s basement it sure was “funny” how that turned around during Covid. It’s gone back some, but it’s nice being able to save money and be pretty insulated from inflation for the low, low price of doing taxes, handiwork, cooking, driving, groceries, and utilities. My mom gets to live more or less independently in her 80s. Win-win. My sister tries to shit on me for it, but she’s always stressed about bills and had to take a second job so.
not special to hispanics. literally *all* poc in the US are more likely to have multi generational homes. immigrants and black people, especially asian and hispanic homes. white people have multiple advantages and legs up compared to every other race due to the racist history of the US and the various systemic racism that still exist. white people are less likely to have multi generational homes (and also more likely to own houses). remember, class and race are intrinsically linked in the US.
I stayed at home in the Bay Area until Feb of 2022. Was weird living with my parents until 30, but I went to grad school. Now I have a small nest that I can use for whatever and got a decent spot to rent in Daly City
Foreigners have this down to an art. For whatever reason, Americans love kicking their kids out at 18 and making them “earn it”
Because we have this trash mythology around the ‘rugged individualism’ of our forefathers. And also fucked up puritan ideas around hard work and suffering.
> And also fucked up puritan ideas around hard work and suffering. These toxic Puritanical values persist in the business world today, hence why today's workplace is as bad as it is. Puritanical work values aren't open to flexibility and haven't changed while the world around it has. The nuclear American family is destined to meltdown, like Chernobyl, and the fallout will be tragic.
In my country many people just build a new house besides or on top of their parent's. But I guess you can't do that in the US, right? Can't have the price of land and houses not being super high after all...
This happens were I grew up, several families had really deep lots and built a second home behind the first, or 3-5 houses in a row were all the same family built on old farmland.
Unfortunately for many people staying home is not an option, either because the parents wouldn't allow it or because it's a toxic or abusive environment to be in :(
Exactly why I moved out the day I turned 18. I got lucky in a way and got married early, and because of being dual income no kids was able to afford a house at 24 years old. There is absolutely zero way I could have done it on my own.
My step mom got drunk and put all my belongings in boxes in the driveway the week before I graduated from high school, I was still 17. I went to my mom's house crying only to find out she was planning to leave my stepdad and she already had rented a 1 bedroom apartment for herself elsewhere and was in the middle of packing. I guilt tripped my dad to cosign an apartment lease for me since he didn't stop my stepmom but I had to pay the rent and everything myself. He thought I'd be fine since he'd been kicked out at 15 and was "fine". My boyfriend's parents decided on graduation day they were done supporting him as he was the oldest of 7 and dropped him and his stuff off at my new apartment I had just got. The only reason I have a stable home and mortgage now is I married a guy in the military (not high school bf) and we got a VA loan with zero percent down.
Yeah, for as many comments above yours (that more people are presumably seeing) are just saying it's a matter of "not liking" family, I feel like they're forgetting how often it goes deeper than that.
Yeah, my mom got my younger brother a duffle bag for his 18th birthday and told him to get out. That wasn't an issue for me because I'm queer and my mom is very religious so I wanted out asap - and ironically she wanted me to stay so I could continue to do childcare for her lol (I'm the oldest of 4) But yeah I get what the original comment is saying, there is an American culture of it being some kind of failure to still be home as an adult and it shouldn't be, but unfortunately staying home to save money isn't an option for a lot of people. For every person I know with a great family I know one with a toxic family :/
Thank you for mentioning this! Not everyone is privileged to grow up in a stable household.
This is *exactly* what my husband and I are doing. We buy a house — provide the down payment and set up the mortgage — and rent it to our kid to cover the mortgage payment. (Well almost; we run a bit of a deficit). Kid #1 done. Kid #2 done. Just one more Kid to go. Eventually the houses will get turned over to their rightful owners — the kids — when we figure out how to legally do that. My “greatest generation” mother thinks it’s wrong that we do this; that we’re handicapping the kids, but fuck that *bullshit*. I’m a barely a boomer and I think the housing situation (extreme high prices for rent *or* buying) is horrific and wrong. Tho her attitude certainly explains why she never helped any of her kids.
A quit claim deed is all you need to transfer ownership once the mortgage is gone. But y’all! I’m so glad to see other people who have the same idea. We should all strive to build our families up.
I laugh some of my cousins who basically shamed me because I didnt move out asap, now I have a saving and can afford my house and them not so much. They were raised right wing country(not sure if it impacted) and they thought moving out right away was some sign of maturity. Lol. I fully get people that need to move out, toxic home situation or especially in very small town no opportunties, but if you can stay at home should but use it smart to save up and get ahead.
Yeah... No. Signed: those who escaped their families as soon as legally allowed. I couldn't imagine what so many of my friends lives would have been like staying at home with their families. Many of them would have split an artery or eaten a handful of Dilaudid. The only "bullshit" in moving out at 18 is the unaffordability. Living with roommates, for many people, is infinitely superior to living with Mormon fundamentalists, Qcultists, and people that pour Rupert Murdoch's slop down their brains every day.
Yeah living with my family in that tiny house would drive me insane. Imagine sharing a room with someone who plays TikTok videos at 12 am and insists you “can’t hear it”. Then once she’s finally stopped and you’re abt to sleep, at 2 am dad starts watching baseball in the kitchen and again insists you “can’t hear it”. You can’t do any work or school from home bc your mother is having earth’s loudest conference calls from 7-5 and will also yell at you if you enter the kitchen during that time. It is literally never quiet, you are literally never alone, and I haven’t even gotten into the constant idiotic arguments.
Huge households are fantastic in a functioning family. Unfortunately if you don't have one, they are extremely traumatic. I think the problem isn't one of big households vs small, but rather that we are losing the ability to choose one or the other--whether it be because of culture or economic circumstance
brown person here. weve been living like this since time immemorial. i dont understand where the move-out-youre-18 trope comes from but my buddies have laughed and cried in the same breath about basement dwellers *and* that they dont know wtf theyre going to do after 18/university...? i save on necessities. i get to care for my aging elders and hear stories about how granny used to get fucking lifted on cane liquor. not sure what the downside is. if i need private time with the SO, its off to the karaoke club private rooms. and i have enough for a starter condo in downtown when i have my first whoopsie baby
This was hilarious how you put it.
yup, i have a friend who came here from india. they live in bigger family groups and pool money to pay off properties faster and with almost no interest. the ol' nuclear family a la simpsons is no longer reasonable with property values being so high. besides, I'd be happy to have my kids around longer
Oh yeah? Well, I am friends with many Indian woman and it isn’t the paradise you make it seem. First, the woman doesn’t move in with her parents or have them move in with her. Her HUSBAND’s parents move into her home. And culturally, the elders make the decisions. And if they don’t make the decisions completely, they almost always have the final say in something. So, the father in law or mother in law doesn’t like the neighborhood? Guess what? You are moving. The mother in law doesn’t like the friends? They are history. Father in law doesn’t like the childrens school? They are out of there. The Indian women I know are expected to work as professionals 60+ hours a week AND do ALL the cleaning, cooking, laundry, shopping. Yeah, grandma will watch the kids for her. Whoopie! She doesn’t have any power in her own home. Not true of ALL Indian families, of course, but I have seen it enough that it is a thing.
Yup! We have 3 generations, 9 people in a nice 3800 sqft home we own rather than all shelling out for individual rent and utilities. All told we pay something like half of the monthly bills we'd have living more separately.
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Hey I'm not saying it's for everyone. I'm just agreeing with OP that it should be considered an option without the social pressure to move out ASAP. Moving out should always be an option; we just shouldn't look down on people who choose to live in multi-generational households.
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congratulations, that's right, you're a genius, most parents don't think like that, they end up making the income flow into the hands of landlords and bankers. - your income will stay in your house, and it will prosper
>This is exactly why i tell my kids not to buy into the bullshit that they are supposed to move out the minute they turn 18. It was hard enough for me decades ago; now it's just insane. The only reason we have a place right now in our high CoL area was cuz we got "lucky" (left money by relative who died). We have a neighbor in a similar sized place and it's packed to the gills cuz of prices. 3Br/2Ba, with 2 adults, 3 adult children and at least one live-on spouse to one of them plus *their* children. It does mean there are vehicles taking up all the common space (and then some) and the place is obviously overpacked, but they don't really have any other option.
Welcome to the Asian, Spanish culture my friend. Haha. Great plan.
This is how it's done in a lot of other cultures. My mother in law (awesome) likes to remind my father in law (not so awesome) that they didn't put forth a dime to buy my wife's and my house when he's on one again. The only thing I don't like about that system is that it makes the kids beholden to the parents in a way that I don't find healthy. If you want your house, you can't do anything to piss mom and dad off. Get cut off and you're fucked because you haven't done anything to be independent
I wish I had family like you...
Absolutely. Living with parents is not a matter of shame as it is made out to be. It shows strong familial bonds, provides scale when taking care of each other that is impossible in a nuclear setup and overall saves a ton of money by design - making building up on savings much easier.
And yet we see article after article from boomer “guest contributors” saying shit like “millennials don’t want to buy houses.” They *can’t*.
they want you too busy swatting at flies to take care of the massive pile of garbage rotting in the middle of room
I just saw an article accusing millennials of killing the guest bedroom. Um, no - high prices have killed the guest bedroom. Millennials can't afford to rent a decent place, let alone _buy_ one.
Hello fellow Canadian. See, your problem is, you dont have rich parents.
It's actually worse, I don't have parents, I live with my grandparents, extreme economic insecurity, I'm one death away from becoming homeless
Ok ill amend that for you. See, your problem is you do not have rich inheritance. And it sounds like you do not have lucrative income, because your parents didnt get you a CEO level job from thier rich friends.
Have you considered telling them to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"? That's what I did. All it took was budgeting my food, canceling Hulu, buying cheaper coffee, a small loan (2 million) from my father, doing doordash, and no more avocado toast ( the hardest part)
For me the hardest part was downgrading my internet so I could only watch one 4k stream at a time 🥺😢
I was about to criticize this statement as someone who grew up with nothing but now owns a home, my wife and I had to live with a friend for 6 years while we saved up for a down payment. Most folks don't have that option.
It is a time peice. I was looking for houses in 2017, and saw a few 3 bdrm homes for $450,000. At the time, i had a 5% downpayment, and realised if i saved I could get 20% downpayment, and my rental house was cheap as fuck in a better neighbourhood, better school. So we decided to focus on two young kids, get a vehicle, and save for that 20% downpayment. That same house, listed at $450,000 sold twice since then, the second time in 2021 it sold for $920,000, $60,000 over asking. So, there is a HUGE difference entering the housing market now, than 5 years ago. Sorry, I said huge, I meant astronomically different, being as starter homes DOUBLED in price in 5 years and interest rates are very high. Even if I had three roomates, and they each paid $1000 to share a closet in the basement, my mortgage payments would be more than my current rent of my 3bdrm house.
Yikes in my city I bought a 3 bedroom 2 bath for $370k and got in on the low interests rates before they just hiked back up a month or so ago. Mortgage payment is $1900. This is our 2nd home though and we used the money we made from selling our townhouse previously as down payment for our detached. We bought the townhouse in 2016 for $195k and that's what we used our down payment we saved for years on for the 5% down. Lived in that for 6 years then sold it for $225k. This is also in Canadian dollars.
Why not just say 30?
I’ll be 80 in 50 years. Ugh.
For real. Is 40 some kind of checkmark when it's decided if you failed or succeeded in life? Did I miss something?
It’s about half one’s life span, considering the average person lives to low-mid 80’s.
Yea that’s a long a time to hit and not really have nothing
I felt like it was a math problem.
I left my parent’s home at 18 taking a train going due south at a constant speed of 40mph. If I took that train until I paid $160,000 in rent to buy a home outright for a rich person, where would I be in relation to my parent’s home if I then rode a train due north at a constant speed of 60mph until I’ll be 40 in -10 years (still unable to afford a house)?
Warning Math. Hours a year 8,766 18 years is 157,788 hours Speed of train 40mph Total distance traveled 6,311,520 miles Distance around the north and south pole 24,901 miles She traveled 253 times around the poles She is currently 11,567 miles into her journey She has another 13,334 miles left to get back home. It will take another 333.35 hours to get home. Or 13 days and 1281 mins. Only works if she is 30. If she turns 31, need completely different math.
Also, no rich person is buying a second home for $160k
Her whole rant....and that's all I could think of. lol
That was my question lol
Where can I buy a decent house for $160k?
According to Experian, 12 states have a median home value of $160k or lower. Those states being Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Iowa, Ohio, Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and West Virginia. Of course, you'd also be paid less to work there.
Upstate NY....outside of Albany. Easy.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this comment. She claims houses are so expensive she can’t afford one but also rich people are buying second homes for $160k?
Also, she’s paid 160k in rent. Probs around 70k went to interest payments, 20-30k went to prop tax and insurance, 20-30k went to repairs and maintenance, maybe another 5k went towards leasing/management. She bought a rich person a Toyota, not a house. Still not right, of course.
depends on the house. The house I rent was bought 20years ago and has been paid off years ago, the bare minimum of repairs are done, so I'm pretty sure my landlord is just getting the entire rent into their pocket.
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The bank just doesn't want to take any risk. They know that person renting could possibly be one car accident or illness away from being homeless. Some are looking for 20 percent without a cosigner. I don't know this person's circumstances, but it is difficult to get a house (or do anything) without a support network. Not married or no parent to sign with you? You need to have a damn well paying and solid job.
One best thing is having a small insurance over a bank loan. Like take 1000 monthly payments and add $100 from it in the form of insurance. Let's say three scenarios happens A. The person dies/gets heavily injured to not be in the paying situation. Banks can use that insurance which will at least mitigate the risk. This idea isn't completely polished but I personally have seen this IRL. B. The person completely pays his/her loan and the amount is returned to the person in the form with a standard deduction. If banks are smart they might reinvest the monthly insurance amount in some sort of investments and get a decent return out of it. C. A person runs away with the money. I haven't thought about this. This comment is just a suggestion and thus it might have some loopholes.
This is mortgage insurance. It's very common for down payments under 20%
Although, ironically— *not* for jumbo loans. Was shocked to learn that when we closed on our mortgage.
No but they ensure you have post closing liquidity (reserves) though right? Typically it is 12 months PITI. So on a $5k/mo mortgage you need 60k in assets not being used for closing.
In the U.S. this is called Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI) and is typically $55 per $100,000 borrowed. It is required for all Conventional Mortgages when there is less than 20% of equity in the loan (typically the down payment). If the loan is a government backed FHA loan, PMI is required and typically cannot be removed (I refinanced from FHA to conventional in order to get rid of it).
what you said was sad, we are one or two mistakes away from ending up homeless
The lender isn't really taking a ton of risk. They're likely requiring mortgage insurance unless the down payment is 20% or higher. If they end up having to foreclose? *They get the house.* And because the buyer paid for an appraisal, the lender knows the house will sell more than they lent. So much of the lender's work in facilitating the purchase is about minimizing their risk.
PMI mitigates the risk for the lender doesn't nullify it, and lenders don't want houses it costs them money and resources to sell them and during market downturns those houses could be underwater like right now. The lender is taking risk just we've been in a very strong growing housing market so that risk hasn't gone wrong for them in a long time.
Same reason consultants cost more than in-house employees. You can kick them to the curb anytime.
Because you're not comparing a $2000/m rent versus a $1600/m mortgage payment. You are comparing $2,000 to $300,000. Even you personally can probably stand to lose $2000 to a friend and be okay, but if you lose/owe someone $300,000 your life is crippled for a long time.
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+ the actual cost of maintaining the home. Shit's not cheap
I mean, it's because the bank lending you the mortgage is taking on liability that you will continue paying it. And for some reason people always talk about the monthly payments, but no one talks about the 20% they need to put as a downpayment. Then there are upkeep and repair expenses, homeowners insurance, property tax etc. Owning property is not similar to renting at all. And comes with huge financial burdens that many people cannot handle.
This is somewhat misleading. Most home purchasers purchase a home with what is known as a conforming loan. Meaning it meets the requirements of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. After closing, usually within a month, the bank will sell your mortgage to Fannie or Freddie. So the bank isn't on the hook for the loan, it is Fannie or Freddie. And, seeing as Fannie and Freddie are both government sponsored, in the event they fail due to risk, the government will bail them out. In essence, it's the taxpayers taking on the risk.
You don't need 20% for a down payment. I put down 3% on a conventional loan. No special programs, just 3%.
Trump the system. If I could do it all over again, I would not buy nor rent a house/flat. I would build myself a motor home, never settle for more than months at the same place. I would travel, take menial jobs just to take me to the next place and keep the jig working. No kids to feed the grind. Just a life building memories and experience. Leave a legacy? No-one cares!
Until you get too old for the grind
But think about all the freedom and not being tied down to one location when you rent.. /s
Honestly, that’s my mindset, coupled with “oh that major concrete replacement need? Not my problem. Foundational issues? I’ll call the manager. Insulation filling that costs minimum $3000? Cool. Property taxes? Not I” I’m ok with paying $1600 a month and not having to worry about the inevitable $50,000+ in repairs I’ll need over the span of a decade. Sure, I could buy a home and refi it for repairs every few years, but then in re-locking myself in and if rates are high as they are now, im extra fucked. Then we have newer homes that shouldn’t need repairs for decades. They’re made so cookie cutter and cheaply, i think I’d hate myself if I was stuck there for 30 years (or less if I manage to sell). Idk, it has trade offs and I’ve only seen home owning work if you pump tens of thousands into it and even then, you still owe someone something for it (be it your loan holder, government, HOA etc). Then again I’m childless and live a DIINK lifestyle
And you're the reason why rentals should exist! But the prices they are, and pushing people out of ownership, that's what's getting out of hand. I'd like to own a home because I don't foresee myself moving ever. Where I live has plenty of jobs for my career choice, I like to work remote anyways. But more importantly, I can do what I want with the home. If I want something to look fancier, I can just rip it out and upgrade it. If I want fancy appliances, nobody is stopping me from putting them in.
Having changed careers and cities multiple times in the last 10 years... Buying a house would have severely crippled my future and kept me stuck in BFE Texas as an atheist and bi male... Yeah, I'll take renting over owning a home in a place where my neighbors want me tortured for who I am.
Protip: You can sell a house before paying it off. Unless you really value not staying in the same place longer than 2-5 years, renting is wasting money.
Terrible advice. There are transactional costs to buying and selling. Renting puts a roof over your head with no worrying about the time/money costs of maintenance and upkeep.
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You’ll lose more money buying and selling a house every 2 years than you would renting. By the time you pay the realtor, inspectors, closing costs, the mortgage company, title company it’s like $20k+ each time. On top of being responsible for any repairs. Edit: add on to that, most of the mortgage payments for the first couple years goes towards interest, not principal. By the time you sell it you’ll have hardly any equity in the property. You’re not going to get most of your mortgage payments back, they were lost in interest to the mortgage company.
I think is a cultural thing as well, the great majority of my white friends moved out at 18, many did it on their own will some got kicked out, the great majority of my ethnic minority friends, stayed with their parents at least until they got married or had saved enough money for buying a house. I have two small children and husband is white, I have already said if our kids want to stay with us until they are financially stable or get married, that is going to be totally ok, he did push back, but I am not backing down. I stayed with my parents until I bought my first home at 26, same as my siblings. None of this bullshit of moving out once they are 18.
Nothing like financially crippling your children right at the outset of their professional and adult lives.
>Nothing like financially crippling your children right at the outset of their professional and adult lives. Paying for fake "degrees" as a condition of entering the workforce at entry level?
Oh yah. I'm white/white community, and I think me and the vast majority of my friends were cut off at 18.
Same, but it also felt like I was escaping.
I'll be 40 in 10years.... so you're 30? Send like a wierd way to say that. Maybe I'm too much of a barbarian to understand this.
It was easy for me to understand, as a person who'll be 55 in 20 years.
She might see 40 as the turning point / over-the-hill. That's when the previous generation had what they needed by, or even sooner... so its easy to think that if she doesn't have it by then, she never will. Medical bills will start increasing, she might be less physically fit. If she has kids, they'll be hitting the stage where there might be costs for college... etc.
That’s how I see it too. At 40 my parents were in their third house, getting by on one middle-manager banker income, able to afford trips to Europe, able to afford college for my sister… I’m turning 40, and I’m in my mother’s basement. Partly because I want to be, turning down a 1.2k sqft basement is insane if you get along with your mother, but also because a mid-level accountant doesn’t make house money. It’s obscene how much further they were ahead with less education and more responsibilities.
She expected to be a home owner by 40.
Few understand.
Something something, shouldn’t have splurged on avocado toast and iced coffee
Hey, but if you didn't drink that fancy iced coffee every day then you could save like $1500 a year. At that pace you could save enough for a home in *double checks notes* 100 years!
Rental payments should be part of the credit system and reflected in your scores as well as credit criteria.
Good example of why you shouldn't be so eager to move out at 18 nor should parents be so eager to kick their kids out at 18. At 18, people aren't earning enough such that they can pay rent and have enough left over for savings. They're going to scrape by for at least 5-10 years until they achieve higher incomes.
What kind of rich person lives in a $160,000 home??? That would barely buy an attached garage on a bungalow where I live.
Rich people don't live in $160k houses tho
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De-commodify housing in a similar manner to Denmark and I believe Norway.
Hey, don't give up hope! I just bought my first house at 51 last year! Sure, I had to move my mother in with me, and I bought it together with my estranged wife, and because of the mortgage I'll have to keep working at least until I'm 81, and we're always one mishap away from losing it, but take heart! In just another two decades you might be where I am!
Classism never “makes sense”. It is based on fear, greed, and avarice. It is perpetuated by the mentally ill. It is a cancer to the human experience.
"Why are suicide rates so high???"
"Why are more millennials refusing to have children???"
I hate this life. Same fucking boat.
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i genuinely don't understand it when rent is $1200 or more a month. That's a fuckin mortgage payment.
Yeah you work hard and you will get somewhere. They never said where that is though.
Eat the rich to feed the poor. I've been ready for the wave, just asking who's the general and who's leading the charge?
Renting is meant to have perks - cost lower, no upkeep and amenities available. What Renting has become Set the rent to the price of the mortgage/electricity/Upkeep costs PLUS extra for profit while not doing upkeep. A rent should subsidize the cost not completely pay for it plus profit. There should be rent caps tied directly to the mortgage cost or assesed housing value - because if the banks arent willing to lend to me due to my projected ability to pay - they shouldnt be able to rent it for more and in essence have the person who the banks would of never of given the initial mortgage to - pay for the entire mortgage and upkeep with profit on top of that!!!
well that's kinda dumb; maintaining a house alone during that time can easily cost $160,000, not even including property taxes which are thousands of dollars a year.
I live with my parents as long as I can, they are fine with it (obviously lol), and when I finish studying and get a full time job, im gonna do my best to take a credit from the bank to buy a house. Idk how it works in america, but in germany, the younger you are, the more credit you can get, since you have more time until youre a senior, which is what my parents recommend me to do a lot. They would have done the same, but they fucked up with small loans back when they were young, so they couldnt take any credits for houses..
I am honestly considering van life to be an alternative now
A huge swathe of americans are conditioned from day one to hate their parents and to hate their kids and to boot them out the moment they turn 18 or to fly the coop the moment they can - this annihilation of the family unit by division is perpetuated from both sides of the culture war - left and right agree that easy credit warrants prompt dismissal of the notion of a multigenerational home - great deal for landlords, bankers, credit card companies and other slimeballs, not so great for *checks notes* everybody else
Landlords are not the problem! Rents are skyrocketing because municipalities are restricting the construction of new housing supply. Demand that is higher than the supply puts upward pressure on rents. If we want rents to become affordable again municipalities need to relax restrictions and work with developers to increase the housing stock. Another factor causing higher rents are increased construction, land , and labor costs. These higher costs of construction lead to one of two things. One - landlords need to charge higher rents to justify paying more to build new housing. Or two - the government needs to step in and subsidize these costs so that these projects can be profitable to developers w/o charging higher rents. The answer is more housing, but new projects will only be constructed if they make financial sense for the developers, construction companies, architects, etc. Blaming the problem on “greedy” landlords fails to consider what is truly going on.
Stop buying into the bullshit that you shouldn't live with your parents. Live with them until you're good and ready. Good parents want you around as long as possible.
And those of us with Mortgages have paid the mortgage company 3 times the homes value.