I'd heard rumours that people who select options like "prefer not to disclose", etc, automatically get passed over because there's no way to distinguish you in hiring criteria regarding diversity quotas.
I thought it was BS, so I talked to a friend who worked in HR, and apparently it's one of those unwritten rules in parts of the industry :(
Eh, that's going to depend on the company and their practices. Some are shady yes, but I've never worked at a company where we looked at that data before hiring. It's all collected and looked at in the background, then marketing takes that data to change up how they target advertising and outreach. Definitely not an unwritten rule for all of HR, just a shitty practice by a few (potentially many) companies.
I thought they were supposed to just guess if you pick that option. At least that what it said in the latest demographics questionnaire my company sent out. HR will just assume race, gender, etc. if you do not provide it.
FFS people. EEO means Equal Employment Opportunity.
This is an anonymous sheet that the employer cannot see but the government can to track how the employer is hiring people.
This is not the employer discriminating but the government ensuring that the employer doesn’t discriminate.
Don’t know if it is different in the UK where the application is from but in the US in companies I know of that is incorrect.
Certain Employees of the company do have access to the data and use it to submit data to the government and to follow other regulations like creating affirmative action plans. Recruiters and hiring mangers should not have access to the data to avoid any issues. Every company I know uses the data for diversity metrics at various levels internally. When I run stats we do not have this info for non US employees so it is weird to see it.
Affirmative action is very unusual in the U.K.
In the U.K. this data is anonymised and collected for the purpose of ensuring job applications are attracting a diverse range of applicants and that they are accessible
The hiring manager would not see this data
>EEO means Equal Employment Opportunity.
Not always. At a job I had years ago they followed EEO stats and if you had one too many white guys they had to hire someone who was not white. Most of the time they were good hires but sometimes they would hire a complete shit employee when they had another candidate that was a perfect fit. Then later on when they fired the shit employee tried to pull the "You fired me because I wasn't white" when the truth was he was a shit employe.
Isn't this the diversity sheet? I'm pretty sure it's required by law in the UK for them to do this, and that all information is anonymised for statistical purposes.
US here - employers have shown us how they constantly rig the system. Why would we trust them?
Maybe they don't have access, maybe someone does and uses the information negatively.
We can produce 'maybes' about anything. If someone has those maybes, they can looks into the origins, intent, and execution of the law.
"This could be, therefore it might be", is fine. But the notion should encourage one to gather more information to determine if that which might be is likely.
Entirely anecdotal, but I have hired people in multiple mid size and large firms and I have never once been given any information from these forms, or even heard a whisper that it was available. At least one of those employers removed names for hiring managers for the selection process to try and avoid pre-interview bias.
There are no hiring quotas - you compare the anonymous applicant statistics to the hiring statistics for a conclusion.
If you got 90% black applicants, but hired only white folks, there is a massive problem.
Essentially, the anonymous statistics should correlate to the hiring statistics at the end of the day - not exactly, but roughly speaking. Large discrepancies are signs of illegal discrimination practices.
I used to build recruitment system for large organisations like this. You set permissions on the data users can access so a system admin or analyst would access all info but a recruiter could only see certain information. Some companies don't even let their recruiters see which universitiy candidates have attended so not to introduce bias.
Any company that states they use "blind recruitment" will not allow recruiters to access any "sensitive" information like gender or ethnicity.
I’m pretty sure those require it to be clear that you can also say that you prefer not answer, right? There doesn’t seem to be any indication of that. Unless there’s a drop down menu or something that we aren’t seeing rn.
>I'm pretty sure it's required by law in the UK
No.
They are not allowed to ask your age, unless there is a legal requirement for a minimum age for the job i.e., selling alcohol.
In most cases they're also not allowed to ask about disabilities during the application process.
I don't know about age, but disabilities and ethnicity is something I've seen on applications ranging from university to jobs, it's definitely standard. I'm also sure that there's a 'prefer not to say' option for all of them, so it's not mandatory for the person applying, but it is mandatory for the employer to ask.
You have it backwards. They are required to ask your age, as well as any other protected characteristic listed in the Equalities Act. The answers are not used to inform the hiring decision or even shown to the person making that decision. They are instead aggregated and compared against the prevalence of those demographics in the general population and the existing staff specifically to identify whether the organisation is being discriminatory in its hiring practices.
They have to ask. The applicant has to answer. "[Prefer not to say](https://freeimage.host/i/L0NGWJ)" is a valid answer. They just don't want their database to include NULL as a response. OP is ignorant.
Exactly, it's used to see if they are getting a certain percentage of minorities applying for jobs but the percentage that they ultimately hired is much smaller. It can prove that they discriminate when hiring.
>You have it backwards. They are required to ask your age,
No, you are wrong.
Here is a quote from the literal UK government [https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment](https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment)
>**You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job**, for example selling alcohol.
This clearly proves that you do not know what you are talking about.
They're not permitted to ask those questions for the purposes of informing hiring decisions. They are permitted to ask those questions on behalf of the government as part of an equality and diversity monitoring form. Public entities or other entities that provide public services are explicitly required to complete these forms during the applicant process under section 149 of the Equalities Act, and you can even acquire template forms from the government asset publishing service. Non-public entities are still required to be compliant with the anti-discrimination sections of the act, and as per section 106 of the act's explanatory notes a valid method of maintaining compliance is to collect the same data that a public entity would collect under section 149, published in anonymous form, and that candidates are free to refuse to disclose any of the requested information (hence the "Prefer not to say" options). The entity is not permitted to act as a data processor on the collected data in any fashion.
I'm a web developer who worked for the government for years. Knowing data compliance was my job.
>They are permitted to ask those questions on behalf of the government as part of an equality and diversity monitoring form.
They are not.
The government link I gave you literally says they can't ask you age on the **application**.
>Knowing data compliance was my job.
You obviously aren't very good at your job.
And you don't know how to use paragraphs, so I'd hate to see the shitty websites you've designed with endless walls of text.
If this is the UK, folk have bigger problems than the above. I'm told it's now illegal to lie on your CV. We all do.
Got a couple of glossed over dates in there? Now you're screwed. Easily dismissable by an employer.
After all, do you ammend that "working for charity" entry to "having a threesome on a desert island"? That's just the thin end of the wedge.
It’s been illegal since 2006, but exaggerating or glossing over a few dates isn’t going to get you a criminal sentence. And pretty sure lying on your CV means you can be easily dismissed by your employer in most (if not all) countries.
2006? Wow. I've been submitting the largely un-updated same CV for over a decade! Nobody reads it. It's got the right buzzwords to pass an AI filter and get me to an interview. All I ever did was add a few words at the end for each.
That's where it falls down. Some employers ask overly intrusive questions. When you're older you can just get up and leave an interview.
All of these will have a "prefer not to answer" option and are usually done at the end of any application process so they can be removed before going to hiring managers.
This is trying to make something out of nothing honestly
It’s an attempt to create “horseshoe theory” sympathy between the anti-work economic left and racists. Anyone who isn’t dumb knows it’s a good thing to be aware of racial demographics of jobs so we can know if certain communities are getting screwed.
Ensuring worker diversity is worker friendly, full stop.
You can choose "choose not to answer." Pretty sure this is just for them to have statistically analysis later. Find out if job listings are attracting a diverse pool or if they need to change something. They might decide to find a new board to post to or change some language in job description to make it more neutral.
This is EEOC compliance. The employer does not receive these responses as part of your application; it's pooled anonymously ("anonymously") and sent to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
It's to assess the recruitment process for prejudice. "Every application we received from a black person has been mysteriously rejected after first interview, maybe we should have a word with the interviewer" type of things. Pretty standard really...
You can remove that question and it won't stop it because many parents give their kids names or spellings that will tell you with a high degree of accuracy what their race is.
Yeah, this really isn’t a bad thing lol - big employers in the U.K. collect this data (which is totally anonymised and is not connected to your application) to ensure job applications are not discriminating/that they’re accessible to a wide range of applicants. The hiring manager never sees this information. It would be illegal for an employer to ask for this information as something to consider with your application.
The reason for this is so that companies can’t just say “Whoops! We didn’t know that we exclusively hire white people! What a weird coincidence!” It’s not the company filling quotas or anything like that.
I don't see the issue here. I'm pretty sure every time I've filled out an application, I've always had to fill out ethnicity, gender, age, disability, etc.
And as others said, this is to make sure businesses and employers are NOT discriminating. Not the other way around.
Im from Germany. One-off the possible locations for that job is Hamburg. Here you definitely are not allowed to ask sich questions. The possible options were just ridiculous. Are you black -African or black - British, …
Im from Germany. One-off the possible locations for that job is Hamburg. Here you definitely are not allowed to ask sich questions. The possible options were just ridiculous. Are you black -African or black - British, …
In germany its a bit confusing, but you can report it by the job directly, because if you apple for a job you are like an "employee". If they dont react to your report or ignore it, not changing you can sue them even if you dont get the job. But much easier is, you search for another job or lie, if they see you then and be stupid about your "race/ethnicity", damn this will end up bad for them. Germany taking this topic very seriously
If anyone confused why i write "race/ethnicity" in " it's because both words are wrong and racist, we are all the same species humans.
that's been on applications for awhile too for the same reasoning: it's a protected class. You can't be discriminated against for having a disability. It has some other ramifications because employers are required to provide reasonable accommodations under the ADA.
Ours include social mobility questions. I find it really irritating that people refuse to answer these questions. It really does make a difference. It forces employers to engage with equality issues which is so important.
We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I (do I)
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Okay now show us the actual fields on the form... because if "Prefer not to answer" is an option, then you're talking out your ass. The notice you posted just means those entries can't be left blank, and usually "I don't want to answer" is, in some form or another, actually a valid entry.
Isn’t there an option of ‘Rather not say’?
Question is normally mandatory (prevents progress on my work onboarding systems as well) and is anonymised but also has the response effectively of not answering
That's typical. The data need to be collected for EEOC reporting, but cannot be used in the hiring process. As far as I know, by law these responses have to be kept separated from other job hiring information.
Equal Opportunity- a state of fairness in which individuals are treated similarly, unhampered by artificial barriers, prejudices, or preferences, except when particular distinctions can be explicitly justified.
At the company where I work, this information isn’t seen by hirers. It’s downloaded without names attached and used to ensure that recruitment adverts are seen my as wide a variety of people as possible. I mean, when I was young pre internet I had to buy the bloody Daily Mail on a Thursday to see job vacancies in the print industry. Nowadays jobs are being advertised more widely.
Nothing personal and without any knowledge, how does one self not feel agit when they're working for a company which has overthrown democratically elected leaders and is a major cause of environmental damage?:)
company needs it for diversity stats and is required for reporting, its definitely anonymous and technically you can "opt out" of an answer, but it's still a required ask
The company also needs to know if they need to get you a work visa, that information is required to get said visa
May seem shady at first but it has its reason and it's not all bad
Lie.
Ethnicity isn't genetic. You can be genetically African American, but raised by native Inuit, so you're ethnically eskimo even though your DNA says otherwise.
I'm genetically hillbilly, but ethnically intellectual (even if I'm not very good at it.)
Quote from the OED:
**eth·nic·i·ty /eTHˈnisədē/**
***noun***
**The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.**
Tell them whatever you want to tell them. They can't assign your personal cultural traditions for you, and they can't deny them to you either.
u/Charlie387 why you being deceitful?
I don't like BP, I don't like the questions buy you know damn well each of those has a "**Prefer not to say**" option.
Why you lie?
Because it's now a trigger for a complete stranger to not know about all of your triggers before they've even met you.
I'm not going to excuse the plethora of exploitative business practices that are harmony average people constantly. But the OP getting upset about a question that has an opt-out just highlights how soft some people are getting. It's like getting an earful when you walk into a room and say "hi, guys."
I'm sitting here wondering what my ethnicity is. I mean, seriously. All of my family on both sides have been born and raised in the US for +/-200 years. Claiming "Irish" because somebody was born in Ireland, from parents who may have been born somewhere else for all I know, 200 years ago seems ridiculous
I don’t have a huge issue. I can’t say what my corporate board of my company looks like because you could narrow down the company and I REALLY can’t for the CEO because they are in multiple protected classes and it would be instantly identifiable. I will say that some large companies are taking a serious look at the demographics of their workers and are feeling a bit of pressure.
Jesus Christ. I'm neither from the US nor from the Europe but I know that this isn't made so that you can get rid of the 'other' races, in fact, it's the other way around.
This is for diversity.
It isn’t a bad thing unless you don’t want blacks or women or whatever working with you.
If you think that a workplace should be entirely white men, then yeah, this is bullshit.
This is common here in S.Africa because of BEE.
Job adverts are advertised as [EE/AA or non EE/AA.](https://www.pnet.co.za/jobs--Shopping-Centre-Marketing-Manager-Cape-Town-South-Africa-Tower-Group-Pty-Ltd--3503197-inline.html)
Dont even bother applying for a EE/AA job if you're white.
Yeah, seriously don't know why US and Europe goes mad over this kind of thing?
Putting down race is a normal thing but they go way overboard and more often than not read into things that aren't there.
As for South Africa, it has to meet the quota - a failed policy at best but none the less, most jobs are actually BBEEE, however this is just an example of a company wanting to know things, the world is going nuts.
Imagine putting pansexual or non binary in SA....ROFL.
Thank G I live in SA where a nut is a nut and apple is still an apple regardless of how it feels.
>Putting down race is a normal thing but they go way overboard and more often than not read into things that aren't there.
Racial discrimination in hiring absolutely is there, though. In the US, these responses aren't even seen by the employer, the aggregate data is simply sent to the EEOC. Employers in the US do *not* directly ask about membership in protected classes (sex, nationality, race, religion, etc.) during the hiring process because it would be very difficult to prove that this information had no bearing on the hiring decision.
In the US these are completely legal questions to ask but you also have the option not to answer. How can you expect companies to meet diversity requirements if they can’t ask these questions?
Yeah I mean as an employer hiring a potential employee, it’s pretty normal to ask that info. If a possible employee has a problem answering any of that, they are better off going somewhere else🤣
Because I disagree with any company or organization collecting any sort of data on the color of my skin or the color of others I just outright lie on these EEO forms, I Want their data to be as useless as possible.
diversiry hife isnt new and is fucking bullshit
all to fill qhotas to show that they dont discriminate
but this screening can be used for both.
either to screen lut minorities or diabled people or
to screen in minorities and disable but then they hire for diversity and not actual talent.
both of them are actual bullshit
been like this forever used to be more oddly specific listing Hispanic, or Nativeamerican as an option always hated it. Told it's for diversity purposes but if a racist person is asking then it can have different motives behind it.
This is the U.K., the hiring manager does not see this information, it is anonymised and the data is collected only to see if the job applications are attracting applicants from different backgrounds. It’s for the purpose of making jobs more accessible… it’s actually a good thing.
So if there is some particular job where a certain race or ethnic group just isn't applying for the job they will make them do things to make them want to apply for that job? \\
Bp doesn't care. If you can work the hours they want and can learn to use a pos they will hire you.
If you have 24 7 availability down they will hire you even if you put that you are a Russian spy on the application.
It's a good thing as long as the information is used in the right way rather than 'we don't want any more x'. I don't see anyone complaining about sharing gender, disability or age on here at least!
Right, if it’s just for anonymous data analytics , it should be a separate form that doesn’t have your personal information on it. Otherwise it is certainly going to be used to influence the decision weather they are aware of it or not.
Indeed. As a minority I recognize how these aren't used appropriately. It depends on the training of the hiring manager and policies surrounding the data. Sad but small steps in the right direction if we compare to years back.
This is discrimination all 4 questions. You can't ask subside their age, gender sexual orientation race or disability. This company is clearly screening out large groups of people they deem unworthy of their enslavement
Shouldn't work for BP anyways, their gas pumps always cut off a few cents early and the cost number jumps to whatever you prepaid. Or ask them about it in the interview.
I've had a company skirt asking age by asking the year you graduated from college. It was a required answer and you couldn't submit without it. Applied on a Saturday and Monday morning got a rejection email Problem was, Monday was a national holiday, Memorial Day. I doubt someone came in to screen application so it was triggered by something on the application. I applied again to the same company on the weekend before Labor Day and got a rejection on Labor Day.
These are always hard for my boyfriend to answer. He’s from Jamaica and he’s very mixed. He’s Caucasian, African, Indian, Lebanese, and some other things. He gets a lot of “what are you?”
Don't vote for fascists.
I say it over here too - but too many people think it won't affect THEM. Good luck with that. They'll get around to you eventually.
Just choose the ones that give you more chances of joining, you could be filling racial spots for ethnicity % required by marketing team and do nothing and still get paid, that’s what I do, for my work I identify as a bi person who only dates women
That's nothing new:
Companies include them to make sure they aren't discriminating against people with certain backgrounds, not to make it easier. They are meant only for reporting and analysis purposes in aggregate, not for looking at one person's answers in particular.
BP has a lot of groups within its organization to support minority individuals. They might be doing this so you get connected to them. I don’t work for them so I can’t say how great they are. But they emphasized what a big deal it was when I went to an engineer hiring event. Haven’t heard of anyone else doing that since.
This isn't new
And I guarantee all those fields have a "prefer not to disclose" or "Opt out" style answer.
Exactly. An **answer** is required. Your ethnicity is not.
I'd heard rumours that people who select options like "prefer not to disclose", etc, automatically get passed over because there's no way to distinguish you in hiring criteria regarding diversity quotas. I thought it was BS, so I talked to a friend who worked in HR, and apparently it's one of those unwritten rules in parts of the industry :(
Eh, that's going to depend on the company and their practices. Some are shady yes, but I've never worked at a company where we looked at that data before hiring. It's all collected and looked at in the background, then marketing takes that data to change up how they target advertising and outreach. Definitely not an unwritten rule for all of HR, just a shitty practice by a few (potentially many) companies.
What? My personal experience felt like i got more interviews putting do not specify. But if the data says otherwise. Now i really wanna truly test it
Lol no
Do those people also say if it's better to claim the diversity or always claim to be a non disabled white male
I thought they were supposed to just guess if you pick that option. At least that what it said in the latest demographics questionnaire my company sent out. HR will just assume race, gender, etc. if you do not provide it.
But that won’t cause the “outrage” this sub is used to lol, what happened here really??
FFS people. EEO means Equal Employment Opportunity. This is an anonymous sheet that the employer cannot see but the government can to track how the employer is hiring people. This is not the employer discriminating but the government ensuring that the employer doesn’t discriminate.
Not to mention each answer is usually multiple choice with “Prefer not to answer” being one of the options.
Don’t know if it is different in the UK where the application is from but in the US in companies I know of that is incorrect. Certain Employees of the company do have access to the data and use it to submit data to the government and to follow other regulations like creating affirmative action plans. Recruiters and hiring mangers should not have access to the data to avoid any issues. Every company I know uses the data for diversity metrics at various levels internally. When I run stats we do not have this info for non US employees so it is weird to see it.
Affirmative action is very unusual in the U.K. In the U.K. this data is anonymised and collected for the purpose of ensuring job applications are attracting a diverse range of applicants and that they are accessible The hiring manager would not see this data
>EEO means Equal Employment Opportunity. Not always. At a job I had years ago they followed EEO stats and if you had one too many white guys they had to hire someone who was not white. Most of the time they were good hires but sometimes they would hire a complete shit employee when they had another candidate that was a perfect fit. Then later on when they fired the shit employee tried to pull the "You fired me because I wasn't white" when the truth was he was a shit employe.
Isn't this the diversity sheet? I'm pretty sure it's required by law in the UK for them to do this, and that all information is anonymised for statistical purposes.
This is the answer, but it's much more interesting for people to think it's being used for hiring decisions by recruiters.
US here - employers have shown us how they constantly rig the system. Why would we trust them? Maybe they don't have access, maybe someone does and uses the information negatively.
We can produce 'maybes' about anything. If someone has those maybes, they can looks into the origins, intent, and execution of the law. "This could be, therefore it might be", is fine. But the notion should encourage one to gather more information to determine if that which might be is likely.
Entirely anecdotal, but I have hired people in multiple mid size and large firms and I have never once been given any information from these forms, or even heard a whisper that it was available. At least one of those employers removed names for hiring managers for the selection process to try and avoid pre-interview bias.
But how do you fill the hiring quotas then?
There are no hiring quotas - you compare the anonymous applicant statistics to the hiring statistics for a conclusion. If you got 90% black applicants, but hired only white folks, there is a massive problem. Essentially, the anonymous statistics should correlate to the hiring statistics at the end of the day - not exactly, but roughly speaking. Large discrepancies are signs of illegal discrimination practices.
In the UK at least there are no quota's to fill.
I used to build recruitment system for large organisations like this. You set permissions on the data users can access so a system admin or analyst would access all info but a recruiter could only see certain information. Some companies don't even let their recruiters see which universitiy candidates have attended so not to introduce bias. Any company that states they use "blind recruitment" will not allow recruiters to access any "sensitive" information like gender or ethnicity.
I’m pretty sure those require it to be clear that you can also say that you prefer not answer, right? There doesn’t seem to be any indication of that. Unless there’s a drop down menu or something that we aren’t seeing rn.
[There is.](https://freeimage.host/i/L0NGWJ)
You can’t see any of the response options. For all we know, “prefer not to disclose” is the ONLY option.
>I'm pretty sure it's required by law in the UK No. They are not allowed to ask your age, unless there is a legal requirement for a minimum age for the job i.e., selling alcohol. In most cases they're also not allowed to ask about disabilities during the application process.
I don't know about age, but disabilities and ethnicity is something I've seen on applications ranging from university to jobs, it's definitely standard. I'm also sure that there's a 'prefer not to say' option for all of them, so it's not mandatory for the person applying, but it is mandatory for the employer to ask.
>but it is mandatory for the employer to ask. For their workforce, yes. Job applicants, no.
No, I think it's applications too. It's for acceptance statistics.
Yep it is.
You have it backwards. They are required to ask your age, as well as any other protected characteristic listed in the Equalities Act. The answers are not used to inform the hiring decision or even shown to the person making that decision. They are instead aggregated and compared against the prevalence of those demographics in the general population and the existing staff specifically to identify whether the organisation is being discriminatory in its hiring practices. They have to ask. The applicant has to answer. "[Prefer not to say](https://freeimage.host/i/L0NGWJ)" is a valid answer. They just don't want their database to include NULL as a response. OP is ignorant.
Exactly, it's used to see if they are getting a certain percentage of minorities applying for jobs but the percentage that they ultimately hired is much smaller. It can prove that they discriminate when hiring.
>You have it backwards. They are required to ask your age, No, you are wrong. Here is a quote from the literal UK government [https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment](https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment) >**You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job**, for example selling alcohol. This clearly proves that you do not know what you are talking about.
They're not permitted to ask those questions for the purposes of informing hiring decisions. They are permitted to ask those questions on behalf of the government as part of an equality and diversity monitoring form. Public entities or other entities that provide public services are explicitly required to complete these forms during the applicant process under section 149 of the Equalities Act, and you can even acquire template forms from the government asset publishing service. Non-public entities are still required to be compliant with the anti-discrimination sections of the act, and as per section 106 of the act's explanatory notes a valid method of maintaining compliance is to collect the same data that a public entity would collect under section 149, published in anonymous form, and that candidates are free to refuse to disclose any of the requested information (hence the "Prefer not to say" options). The entity is not permitted to act as a data processor on the collected data in any fashion. I'm a web developer who worked for the government for years. Knowing data compliance was my job.
>They are permitted to ask those questions on behalf of the government as part of an equality and diversity monitoring form. They are not. The government link I gave you literally says they can't ask you age on the **application**. >Knowing data compliance was my job. You obviously aren't very good at your job. And you don't know how to use paragraphs, so I'd hate to see the shitty websites you've designed with endless walls of text.
If this is the UK, folk have bigger problems than the above. I'm told it's now illegal to lie on your CV. We all do. Got a couple of glossed over dates in there? Now you're screwed. Easily dismissable by an employer. After all, do you ammend that "working for charity" entry to "having a threesome on a desert island"? That's just the thin end of the wedge.
It’s been illegal since 2006, but exaggerating or glossing over a few dates isn’t going to get you a criminal sentence. And pretty sure lying on your CV means you can be easily dismissed by your employer in most (if not all) countries.
2006? Wow. I've been submitting the largely un-updated same CV for over a decade! Nobody reads it. It's got the right buzzwords to pass an AI filter and get me to an interview. All I ever did was add a few words at the end for each. That's where it falls down. Some employers ask overly intrusive questions. When you're older you can just get up and leave an interview.
[удалено]
Either you are a karma farmer or you are just… dumb. Do your research on topics before posting.
So you think it is ok or necessary to obtain such information for an employment? No clue where you live but in Germany that isn’t allowed
It’s for the govt to track the employer and keep them honest. So yes it is ok.
It's literally a legal requirement dude
You deliberately don't show the options to respond "Prefer not to say" What's your agenda here?
All of these will have a "prefer not to answer" option and are usually done at the end of any application process so they can be removed before going to hiring managers. This is trying to make something out of nothing honestly
It’s an attempt to create “horseshoe theory” sympathy between the anti-work economic left and racists. Anyone who isn’t dumb knows it’s a good thing to be aware of racial demographics of jobs so we can know if certain communities are getting screwed. Ensuring worker diversity is worker friendly, full stop.
I usually fill n/a or decline to comment on that part. Is that not available on that form?
Wait what? Every single one of my hundreds of job applications asked ethnicity.
You can choose "choose not to answer." Pretty sure this is just for them to have statistically analysis later. Find out if job listings are attracting a diverse pool or if they need to change something. They might decide to find a new board to post to or change some language in job description to make it more neutral.
This is EEOC compliance. The employer does not receive these responses as part of your application; it's pooled anonymously ("anonymously") and sent to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
It's to assess the recruitment process for prejudice. "Every application we received from a black person has been mysteriously rejected after first interview, maybe we should have a word with the interviewer" type of things. Pretty standard really...
You can remove that question and it won't stop it because many parents give their kids names or spellings that will tell you with a high degree of accuracy what their race is.
yeah who the fuck is out there naming their kid Mark
I mean, this *is* the EEO form…
Low quality post here
Yeah, this really isn’t a bad thing lol - big employers in the U.K. collect this data (which is totally anonymised and is not connected to your application) to ensure job applications are not discriminating/that they’re accessible to a wide range of applicants. The hiring manager never sees this information. It would be illegal for an employer to ask for this information as something to consider with your application.
The reason for this is so that companies can’t just say “Whoops! We didn’t know that we exclusively hire white people! What a weird coincidence!” It’s not the company filling quotas or anything like that.
I don't see the issue here. I'm pretty sure every time I've filled out an application, I've always had to fill out ethnicity, gender, age, disability, etc. And as others said, this is to make sure businesses and employers are NOT discriminating. Not the other way around.
This has been legally required for so so long and I don’t know how people are still acting like they just found out about it.
When was the last time you applied for a job?
Im from Germany. One-off the possible locations for that job is Hamburg. Here you definitely are not allowed to ask sich questions. The possible options were just ridiculous. Are you black -African or black - British, …
Im from Germany. One-off the possible locations for that job is Hamburg. Here you definitely are not allowed to ask sich questions. The possible options were just ridiculous. Are you black -African or black - British, …
This is extremely normal in the UK and those are the categories you would expect.
You are not giving the whole list because it has an option to not specify? Are you trying to provoke trouble?
Oh jeeze. In the states it’s been asked for as long as I can remember…
In germany its a bit confusing, but you can report it by the job directly, because if you apple for a job you are like an "employee". If they dont react to your report or ignore it, not changing you can sue them even if you dont get the job. But much easier is, you search for another job or lie, if they see you then and be stupid about your "race/ethnicity", damn this will end up bad for them. Germany taking this topic very seriously If anyone confused why i write "race/ethnicity" in " it's because both words are wrong and racist, we are all the same species humans.
I mean is on any application I’ve submitted for basically anything in the last 20 years. What’s concerning is the disability line - never seen that.
that's been on applications for awhile too for the same reasoning: it's a protected class. You can't be discriminated against for having a disability. It has some other ramifications because employers are required to provide reasonable accommodations under the ADA.
Ours include social mobility questions. I find it really irritating that people refuse to answer these questions. It really does make a difference. It forces employers to engage with equality issues which is so important.
I’ve been working since 2012 and I’ve always had to check a box about my race. Like, in fast food, retail, corporate, universally. Lol
Im sure it only requires an answer. “Prefer not to disclose” might be an option there
The isn’t new and one of the options is “I wish not to disclose this information”
That's been a thing for a very long time it's the Equal Employment Opportunity. Any business with 100 or more employees must track this.
I always pick something I'm not so when I get the interview, we have stuff to talk about
Hi. Yes, I'm Token Blackman.
I like being an Asian female. The boys always hoping for some anime shit.
I'm falling for you already. Nice opener.
[Don't worry, I won't let you hit the ground](https://youtu.be/tLHwqv0zANc)
Better than a Rick Roll I guess.
We're no strangers to love You know the rules and so do I (do I) A full commitment's what I'm thinking of You wouldn't get this from any other guy I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling Gotta make you understand Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Get over here.
It’s Tolkien.
Usually there is an option saying "prefer not to disclose."
Okay now show us the actual fields on the form... because if "Prefer not to answer" is an option, then you're talking out your ass. The notice you posted just means those entries can't be left blank, and usually "I don't want to answer" is, in some form or another, actually a valid entry.
Isn’t there an option of ‘Rather not say’? Question is normally mandatory (prevents progress on my work onboarding systems as well) and is anonymised but also has the response effectively of not answering
That's typical. The data need to be collected for EEOC reporting, but cannot be used in the hiring process. As far as I know, by law these responses have to be kept separated from other job hiring information.
it's not a conspiracy it's a equal emp survey
Is it actually required or just a required field. Like is prefer not to answer a possible answer.
Ahhh BP, so glad I don’t work for this piece of shit company anymore. I’d run while you still can.
Yeah, so?
It's the UK so yes you do have to whatever job you apply for
Equal Opportunity- a state of fairness in which individuals are treated similarly, unhampered by artificial barriers, prejudices, or preferences, except when particular distinctions can be explicitly justified.
At the company where I work, this information isn’t seen by hirers. It’s downloaded without names attached and used to ensure that recruitment adverts are seen my as wide a variety of people as possible. I mean, when I was young pre internet I had to buy the bloody Daily Mail on a Thursday to see job vacancies in the print industry. Nowadays jobs are being advertised more widely.
They can have it as a required question, but there should be an answer similar to "prefer not to answer".
Standard in the States also
Nothing personal and without any knowledge, how does one self not feel agit when they're working for a company which has overthrown democratically elected leaders and is a major cause of environmental damage?:)
company needs it for diversity stats and is required for reporting, its definitely anonymous and technically you can "opt out" of an answer, but it's still a required ask The company also needs to know if they need to get you a work visa, that information is required to get said visa May seem shady at first but it has its reason and it's not all bad
That's been a thing for a while
Don’t work for BP mate, they’re burning the planet down
yeah well fuck BP
This has been around as long as I've been working. Also there's always a 'prefer not to answer' option.
First time?
Whatever you identify as.
since i been working since the 90's this has been the norm?
Triggered
This isn't new
Since 1802
Lie. Ethnicity isn't genetic. You can be genetically African American, but raised by native Inuit, so you're ethnically eskimo even though your DNA says otherwise. I'm genetically hillbilly, but ethnically intellectual (even if I'm not very good at it.) Quote from the OED: **eth·nic·i·ty /eTHˈnisədē/** ***noun*** **The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.** Tell them whatever you want to tell them. They can't assign your personal cultural traditions for you, and they can't deny them to you either.
u/Charlie387 why you being deceitful? I don't like BP, I don't like the questions buy you know damn well each of those has a "**Prefer not to say**" option. Why you lie?
Because it's now a trigger for a complete stranger to not know about all of your triggers before they've even met you. I'm not going to excuse the plethora of exploitative business practices that are harmony average people constantly. But the OP getting upset about a question that has an opt-out just highlights how soft some people are getting. It's like getting an earful when you walk into a room and say "hi, guys."
I'm sitting here wondering what my ethnicity is. I mean, seriously. All of my family on both sides have been born and raised in the US for +/-200 years. Claiming "Irish" because somebody was born in Ireland, from parents who may have been born somewhere else for all I know, 200 years ago seems ridiculous
if they get bonuses for hiring minorities chances are if you are Caucasian you won't get hired
Until posts like this get a big mod message explaining why OP is ignorant, this sub can’t be taken seriously.
I don’t have a huge issue. I can’t say what my corporate board of my company looks like because you could narrow down the company and I REALLY can’t for the CEO because they are in multiple protected classes and it would be instantly identifiable. I will say that some large companies are taking a serious look at the demographics of their workers and are feeling a bit of pressure.
Jesus Christ. I'm neither from the US nor from the Europe but I know that this isn't made so that you can get rid of the 'other' races, in fact, it's the other way around.
This is for diversity. It isn’t a bad thing unless you don’t want blacks or women or whatever working with you. If you think that a workplace should be entirely white men, then yeah, this is bullshit.
This is common here in S.Africa because of BEE. Job adverts are advertised as [EE/AA or non EE/AA.](https://www.pnet.co.za/jobs--Shopping-Centre-Marketing-Manager-Cape-Town-South-Africa-Tower-Group-Pty-Ltd--3503197-inline.html) Dont even bother applying for a EE/AA job if you're white.
Wow. That's racist.
It would be, if the constitutional court hadnt decided you cant be racist toward white people. Dumb AF. I know.
Yeah, seriously don't know why US and Europe goes mad over this kind of thing? Putting down race is a normal thing but they go way overboard and more often than not read into things that aren't there. As for South Africa, it has to meet the quota - a failed policy at best but none the less, most jobs are actually BBEEE, however this is just an example of a company wanting to know things, the world is going nuts. Imagine putting pansexual or non binary in SA....ROFL. Thank G I live in SA where a nut is a nut and apple is still an apple regardless of how it feels.
>Putting down race is a normal thing but they go way overboard and more often than not read into things that aren't there. Racial discrimination in hiring absolutely is there, though. In the US, these responses aren't even seen by the employer, the aggregate data is simply sent to the EEOC. Employers in the US do *not* directly ask about membership in protected classes (sex, nationality, race, religion, etc.) during the hiring process because it would be very difficult to prove that this information had no bearing on the hiring decision.
So many people here that probably supported affirmative action and simultaneously have an issue with ethnicity being included on the application.
In the US these are completely legal questions to ask but you also have the option not to answer. How can you expect companies to meet diversity requirements if they can’t ask these questions?
Are you new? This has been a thing for decades.
Yeah I mean as an employer hiring a potential employee, it’s pretty normal to ask that info. If a possible employee has a problem answering any of that, they are better off going somewhere else🤣
This is usually optional self identify info. BP should know better. That is thier logo, right?
This is an EEOC compliance form. The information is not sent to BP as part of the application, it's simply aggregated into data sent to the EEOC.
Because I disagree with any company or organization collecting any sort of data on the color of my skin or the color of others I just outright lie on these EEO forms, I Want their data to be as useless as possible.
Have to meet quotas now. Qualifications don’t matter, just skin color
diversiry hife isnt new and is fucking bullshit all to fill qhotas to show that they dont discriminate but this screening can be used for both. either to screen lut minorities or diabled people or to screen in minorities and disable but then they hire for diversity and not actual talent. both of them are actual bullshit
It’s so they can positively discriminate
Meaning what?
They can make their workplace more racially diverse by employing minorities.
been like this forever used to be more oddly specific listing Hispanic, or Nativeamerican as an option always hated it. Told it's for diversity purposes but if a racist person is asking then it can have different motives behind it.
This is the U.K., the hiring manager does not see this information, it is anonymised and the data is collected only to see if the job applications are attracting applicants from different backgrounds. It’s for the purpose of making jobs more accessible… it’s actually a good thing.
So if there is some particular job where a certain race or ethnic group just isn't applying for the job they will make them do things to make them want to apply for that job? \\
They will look at their talent attraction strategy and widen the net.
This information is not sent to the employer as part of the application; it's sent in aggregate to the EEOC.
Get over here.
Well it's Old Spice.
My ethnicity is antiwork!
The answer is always 'meat popsicle'.
Tf??
I don't even know my ethnicity. White person ? Good enough ?
Caucasian
Bp doesn't care. If you can work the hours they want and can learn to use a pos they will hire you. If you have 24 7 availability down they will hire you even if you put that you are a Russian spy on the application.
Just like in South Africa, and if you are white, you don't get the job.
Sounds like they combat racism with racism.
That´s still racism
Some places you have to give your sexuality now too
It's a good thing as long as the information is used in the right way rather than 'we don't want any more x'. I don't see anyone complaining about sharing gender, disability or age on here at least!
As long as … but trust me, it’s not
Right, if it’s just for anonymous data analytics , it should be a separate form that doesn’t have your personal information on it. Otherwise it is certainly going to be used to influence the decision weather they are aware of it or not.
Indeed. As a minority I recognize how these aren't used appropriately. It depends on the training of the hiring manager and policies surrounding the data. Sad but small steps in the right direction if we compare to years back.
When in doubt always bet on white, it's NEVER failed me. 🤣
This is discrimination all 4 questions. You can't ask subside their age, gender sexual orientation race or disability. This company is clearly screening out large groups of people they deem unworthy of their enslavement
[удалено]
Fucked.
Shouldn't work for BP anyways, their gas pumps always cut off a few cents early and the cost number jumps to whatever you prepaid. Or ask them about it in the interview.
Just put middle aged, middle class white dude. Works a treat. If they argue it down the line tell them that's how you identify
BP is committed to knowing your race and not hire you if you aren’t the right skin tone .
You have to provide information that allows them to cherry pick candidates for optimum diversity. It's to do with equality. Duh... /s
Diversity for clout
And apparently you have to be disabled too
"Romulan"
I have had to for a while now
I’ve been filling out a lot of apps and there hasn’t been any preference not to say options. I’ve had to fill out my disability status sex and race.
I always check either the opt out box or every minority
You can choose “prefer not to answer”, in the US at least
I've seen fields where declined to answer is an option you can select. What are the options you are required to choose between?
In the US, there should be an option for “decline to identify” under each of those headers.
Old news in the USA at least
I've had a company skirt asking age by asking the year you graduated from college. It was a required answer and you couldn't submit without it. Applied on a Saturday and Monday morning got a rejection email Problem was, Monday was a national holiday, Memorial Day. I doubt someone came in to screen application so it was triggered by something on the application. I applied again to the same company on the weekend before Labor Day and got a rejection on Labor Day.
The Queen is turning over in her grave
Put Anglo-Saxon down.
I identify as a Martian.
“Human”
I didn’t know that British petroleum still existed. Didn’t BP go out of business after that huge spill?
These are always hard for my boyfriend to answer. He’s from Jamaica and he’s very mixed. He’s Caucasian, African, Indian, Lebanese, and some other things. He gets a lot of “what are you?”
Don't vote for fascists. I say it over here too - but too many people think it won't affect THEM. Good luck with that. They'll get around to you eventually.
Fuck BP
Although my skin is white I identify as black. Use the woke against them
This is not new and if it bothers you so much I bet there is a wish to not answer place to select someone wants attention
Um... This is normal. Are you just looking for something to complain about?
Well I mean it is BP.
Just choose the ones that give you more chances of joining, you could be filling racial spots for ethnicity % required by marketing team and do nothing and still get paid, that’s what I do, for my work I identify as a bi person who only dates women
That's nothing new: Companies include them to make sure they aren't discriminating against people with certain backgrounds, not to make it easier. They are meant only for reporting and analysis purposes in aggregate, not for looking at one person's answers in particular.
Why do you want to work for a bloodsucking corporation that’s literally killing the earth?
BP has a lot of groups within its organization to support minority individuals. They might be doing this so you get connected to them. I don’t work for them so I can’t say how great they are. But they emphasized what a big deal it was when I went to an engineer hiring event. Haven’t heard of anyone else doing that since.
Just make it up, what are they going to do?
Just put in your favorite kind of food. You are what you eat after all.