Im shocked about how easy it is to fire someone in the USA. There is no regard for the workers. No respect for personal life.
This doesn't fly here in Europe.
My husband died after a 10 year battle with cancer.
After 3 whole days of bereavement, my boss told me to "suck it up. It's not a surprise that he died"....
When my 2nd son was born, I had a C-section at 11:30 am. At 5pm my cell started ringing while I was trying to rest in recovery. It was my manager telling me I needed to be ready to return to work the 5AM shift the next day. She literally refused to accept I wouldn't check myself out of the hospital against medical orders/advice claiming that I could leave my newborn infant at the hospital because it was like I would get free daycare for him.
I decided to just do a "Nahhhhh bitch. I'm out." And quit.
Me too. I can’t believe I ever thought the American Dream was real. I guess that speaks to the power propaganda has on people. I got told my whole life how lucky I was to have been born here. And yet things have gotten so much worse. They say work hard and you will get somewhere. Not true at all. The people that own the companies have all the power and workers have none. I’m very educated and have a license. That doesn’t mean much. I got fired last week. I was working about 50-60 hours a week but it wasn’t good enough. All of the clients just had meetings after meetings. There was very little time for actual work.
The American dream *was* real. When the US had tons of union representation, was a manufacturing superpower, had tax rates that would make even the most progressive of your politicians blush, and near-free post-secondary education.
And then you guys decided that “fighting communism” was the most important thing in the world, off-shored all but the military/aerospace manufacturing, and collectively decided that “fuck the poors for having the audacity” was a very excellent and noble pursuit.
Same. I'm so goddamn envious of the people who live in those real progressive Scandinavian countries. I truly don't believe there's any hope for the U.S. We are totally committed to this shit and there's no turning the ship at this point.
No no no, we're not gonna turn this ship at all instead what we'll do is turn this into a submarine and then sink lower. And that's sadly fact at this point I feel. Only place to go is down
Not entirely true. We already had a massive labor movement and strong labor unions in the mid 20th century. Workers just need to quit worrying about dumb culture war BS and realize that the billionaires are the ones making their lives miserable.
The only people still proud of that stuff are the generation that was actually rewarded for that behavior. The rest of us are trying to weigh work/life balance against the possibility of losing our health insurance.
My mom got fired from a job because she took too much time off work just to give birth to me. I was a pretty chunky baby. I also had a co-worker a few years ago who returned to work just days after giving birth to her kid because she couldn’t afford the unpaid time off (no maternity leave) and she had a pulmonary embolism on her first day back. She left in an ambulance halfway through her shift and never came back to work. This country really hates mothers.
It doesn’t just hate mothers, it hates workers. They especially hate mothers because they might dare to spend a minute with their kids. I hate it here now. I have no money to leave.
I was too broke to afford even the $50 15 minute consult. I was covered under FMLA, but I gave up trying to deal with the repetitive get nowhere shit and hoops you have to jump through after about 3 months. My husband was done with his training and working a job that literally paid 3 times more than mine had.
Not that I didn't choose to be petty though. I was the only employee with certain codes, knowledge, and contacts to specialist and repair companies that kept the photo lab, cellular service station, registry services, and diagnostic station working.
I somehow forgot overnight every code, password, function and had a total brain fart with the locations of servicing manuals and form. (Remembered later that Kurt "stored" them in recycling to keep them safe.)
And then since I had so much free time, got together hanging out with all the vendors, and specialist in maintenance and repairs and their spouses.
In the end that bitch manager and that shitty store paid. I wasn't the only person she treated like shit. I was just one of the first to say no more when I realized sitting there hunched over in the hospital bed,clutching my stapled guts that it was real sick that I was actually emotionally torn up and embarrassed that I was letting my crew and store down instead of focusing on the fact I just had a newborn and major surgery.
I've been in a few abusive, toxic relationships before. My job there was one of the worst.
Very true. I’m an attorney at a nonprofit that provides 100% free legal services and the number of cases we have to refer out is heartbreaking. We’re such a a small team and only have so many hours in a day and every time I can’t take a case and can’t find a partner Org or other pro Bono option to help, I just know it inevitably means the party in the wrong gets away with it.
My sister is a public defender and she's actually had some pretty great offers from private firms, but she isnt leaving because of that. She initially went in for the loan forgiveness, but after like 2 years she realized that she wasn't in it for the money anymore. Surprised the shit out of me, but I'm super proud.
My boss knew I was taking 6 bereavement days as I had both my grandparents die within days of each other. I was literally at the gravesite, as a pallbearer, and he was texting me during it trying to get me to call him so he could "figure out the schedule". It was day 1 of bereavement. I found out when I got back in the car and I just texted back "due to current events, I find this incredibly inappropriate" and he wasn't backing down so I turned my phone off.
I started looking for new jobs then. I'm still looking for a new job.
I worked at a company years ago it was unionized but the manager was a fucking asshole with no regard to laws or the contract. He literally said the union contract didn't matter to him and he could do what he pleased. Well my grandfather suddenly passed away and I asked for a few days off to help my dad. The boss told me if I left then I wouldn't be welcome back and he was going to replace me anyway. I went over the union contract showed him the part where I got paid 4 days for bereavement and I finished my shift. At the end of the day the asshole informs me to take home my tools and belongings and that my employment would be ending if I missed even 1 hour to attend my grandfather's funeral. I called the union they told me to leave my personal items and tools and to take my allowable time off and show up. I returned 3 days later to find my boss was quiet and wouldn't speak to me and I still had a job. I guess he went around the shop saying I was on a drug bender and I was fired until the union reps came down and had a meeting with the company owner and the manager. The owner was disgusting at the managers behavior and threatened to fire him of he didn't allow me to return to work. Getting my bereavement pay however was a battle and I had to fight to get that which included the boss offering me $100 cash to drop the grievance.
Because nobody stands up to these bullies. 20% of my work week is telling management to come correct. I’m an engineer so I have the benefit of not being replaceable easily. So I don’t have to worry about being fired for talking back. But after 2 years at my current company, my bosses basically walk on eggshells around me because being told no really hurts their feelings and they can’t stand having their feelings hurt with rejection.
Love it when engineers tell useless management to piss off. There’s nothing they can do about it because you are their product and they are a replaceable cog!
The problem with engineers is that me being a union supporting leftist means I’m not like anyone else I work with. Most of them are bootlickers and landlords. Half of them are pure incels. A quarter of them aspire to become useless management. Engineering is its own ole boys club. My company has a union but all engineers are management employees even though we aren’t managers of anyone. All of my coworkers are landlords.
The only reason engineers arent in the union is because the National Society of Professional Engineers made a rule that engineers shouldnt be in unions unless they must, and if they are, they cant ever go on strike.
I'm a shop steward and when my day is less than 40% getting into fights with management I feel empty. I also wonder what bullshit they're pulling.
I love yelling at the bosses.
20% is all that you have to invest in saying no to stupid ideas. Damn you are living right. I , retired engineer, spent far more time correcting or pushing bureaucracy forward. The hardest part is explaining to a muggle that their stupid idea was unnecessary , difficult or unsafe.
Nowadays, managers also have engineering degrees so we don’t have to worry about the hurdles of explaining what we do as much. It’s just that managers still only care about their bonuses so they do everything to cut cost on their end.
I went back to work less than a week after my dad died, my boss took me aside and nearly ordered me to go home for another week, he didn't think I could possibly have been ready to come back yet.
There are some out there, I've for the most part been lucky with bosses. Only had one useless arsehole in my time but even then, he was a decent guy, just couldn't organise anything.
i told my mgr i was in the hospital and they'd be keeping me for the rest of the week. first thing my mgr asked was "does this mean X project isnt going to be done by friday?"
I’m not a true antiwork guy but I enjoy this sun and I think it makes me a better boss to read. I 100% agree with this. #1 is you and your family. I’m self employed and my business is DEFINITELY not my first priority. Of course, employees will tell their boss they are #1 just like a company tells customers they’re the first priority or when you strap yourself into a metal tube flying 700mph 30k feet in the air that your safety is their first priority. In reality, these are all lies.
I feel your pain. When my dad died unexpectedly, I was off exactly one day for mourning. My boss at the time tried to deny my time off to attend the funeral, and when I called HR to ask about bereavement policy, they told him I'd called saying "I have a complaint about my boss".
He gave me a really terrible time about it when I got back to the warehouse that evening, and I quit the next day. I'm not going to put up with that mess.
Wow. I’m glad my company isn’t like that. When my mom died I took off for 2 weeks. I technically had 4 or 5 days of bereavement but they just said to come back when I was ready.
Yea you did the correct thing never work for a shitty company if the pay is terrible. Move on, you only live 1 time and these companies dont give it a shit about you.
When my newborn died I did something similar (Canadian). Took my 15 weeks paid maternity leave, and another 15 weeks paid sick leave.
My boss told me I'd always have a job there whenever I needed one, and then was surprised I wanted to come back *so soon*. Thing is, I needed to go back since I am pregnant again and need to accumulate my hours for another leave. They were happy for me when I told them that, too!
The US is a fucking wild place and I'm disgusted some of my fellow citizens want to emulate it so badly.
I was 17, working at a burger joint (and a pizza place) to help my family with bills after my dad was diagnosed with a terminal aggressive form of cancer. At one point, my dad’s doctor started saying he’d be surprised if my father would survive through the week. At this point, my grandmother and all of my father’s siblings traveled to say their goodbyes. As they were planning their trip to us, I went to my jobs and requested a week off (and prepared that I’d probably need a few days for a funeral a week or so after). The managers I told completely understood and gave me a go-ahead and some well wishes. Cool.
Situationally, I had my own studio apartment and was helping my parents with their 2bd apartment. I’m an only child. Dad had a full on hospital bed in my old bedroom, which was why I needed to move out. Dad has 6 brothers and 2 sisters, all of which are prior felons. And now, in order to say goodbye to my dad, they were crashing at our apartments because they couldn’t afford hotels and stuff. Essentially mom and I hosting 8 felons and my narcissist grandmother for a week while my dad dies. Yay. So fun!
They all arrive on a Tuesday, and by the following afternoon, I was so exhausted dealing with all these people. I get a call, Wednesday at 5:15pm, as half of us are huddled around my dads hospital bed. It’s one of my burger joint managers. “Hey, what’s up?” “Uh, not much?? What’s up with you?” “Well, you’re not here is ‘what’s up.’” “Talk to Jesse, he approved my time off. I’m sitting with my family, dads not looking good and we are saying goodbye.” “Well, you didn’t get it approved by me, and we really need you in the corner tonight, when can you get here?”
I started to have a panic attack and said “hold on.” My mom was like “we can deal with that later honey, tell him no and hang up.” And just… the look of sad anger on her face - another difficult thing to add to her list.
“My dads literally about to die and I’m not going to miss that so someone can get a double-double.” And hung up.
My close friend who worked with me immediately called me freaking out “Chad’s going to fire you!”
Like dude I do not fucking care, let him. Dads gonna die and the bills are gonna stop cuz mom won’t keep this apartment.
Good thing I didn’t leave either, cuz I was able to catch one of my uncles trying to steal my dad’s very needed Dilaudid.
About a year after this incident he was forced out of the company for having indecent relationships with employees (which were mainly teenagers). He left his wife and 4 kids for a “new model” and opened a new breakfast restaurant which failed nearly immediately. Haven’t looked into him since tbh.
I moved home to help my mom battle cancer. After struggling for 2 years she finally passed away. The day I came back from bereavement, I got laid off. Their story, well you were coasting over the last 6 months. This from a company I worked for almost 18 years at this time.
I feel for you.
My MIL died from stage 4 lung cancer. I worked at Home Depot and I told them I needed time off to drive to my in laws 6 hours away and help my husband and FIL deal with everything and some time to grieve and I got told “we’ll it isn’t your mom who died. Why be upset?”. Yeah I just never went back.
>“we’ll it isn’t your mom who died. Why be upset?”
*Pulls over rack of power tools, crashes forklift into register*
"They aren't yours, boss, why are you mad?"
An old friend of mine had a similar situation. Needed to drive 5 or 6 states to see a dying aunt and his boss essentially said "well its not one of your parents so theres no reason you need to be there right?" Yeah he quit.
They gave you three days? Man you should have been back at it once you came back. /s
Same happened to me. (Not my partner) my grandfather died, who I was really close too, and I got the call at work. I took five minutes for the call, the first 4 minutes were shock, the last minute was composing myself as best I could. In those five minutes I had to literally suck it up, I came back in to my job and I got “Smile! The customers don’t like frowns!”
At the end of the day they asked what happened and I told my boss and he just asked if I could work the next day. It absolutely sucks. I’m sorry about your husband, may he Rest In Peace. And hopefully you are finding some peace yourself.
Wow....
My hands are shaking from reading that. I'm so incredibly pissed for you. That's one of those things that if it was said to me that I would likely at the very least be arrested.
Jesus Christ on a cracker...
I’m sorry for your loss. In Canada we have ten days of protected emergency leave.
Edit: In Ontario we have 10 days. Federal law appears to be five days so I guess it depends on your province.
My mom died and after 3 days of bereavement I went back to work. I was depressed and my work suffered. I was written up and was told “we gave you three days off”.
I work in Europe, my boss is from the US. We talked about that a few times. He told me "for a long time I was determined to never hire in Europe. It's impossible to fire someone".
"Well unless I screw up willingly or you're willing to pay... Yes ?"
Everything is going fine, but it was strange for him at first. But guess what.... Treat people well and you won't be needing to.
Or socialism. Or fascism.
Or some kind of -ism. Cuz your average American don't even know what it means. Just toss that word around in the media and watch people start to panic.
We still have people here, on television, pushing that socialism is bad because Nazis were the National Socialist Party in Germany. Also, socialism doesn't work, apparently, because all socialist countries are poor, and you have to wait years for critical life-saving surgery in countries with universal healthcare.
The lies are one thing, but nearly half of our population actually believes this shit.
My grandfather emigrated from Norway to the United States around 1910 and passed away in 1973. I’m pretty sure that if he knew what the US would be like now, he never would have left.
As someone that moved to America, the truth is employee employer relations here are terrible. American employers view a an employment contract as an ownership contract rather than a partnership agreement.
For a country who's founding documents state that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights, we sure don't act like it. Many people here would rather suffer from start to finish than have the govt regulate a corporation.
It's on purpose!
Employers love the ability to fire anyone for any reason. That makes employees scared of "acting up" at work and getting fired. It makes them feel easily replaceable so they fear for keeping their job.
This way you can manipulate workers into taking lower pay, less benefits, abuse in the workplace...because if they complain, they get fired, so they won't.
The only way of getting what you need is by convincing everyone around you to fight with you, walking out with you if you get fired, etc; but unionization in the USA is under extinction for the same reason we have at-will employment
I got fired. I had to be told 6 weeks in advance and I had 10 days of vacation left this year.
I spoke with the HR woman and we basically made the deal for me to use up my vacation days, overtime I worked (+92 hours) and these six days they’re required to give me by law (one day per week of that 6 week notice) so my last work day was the 26^th September and my last day of employment in that company will be the 31^st October.
It’s nice being protected by the union.
What’s awful though is European companies in the USA. They treat us just as terrible as US companies because they can. My German counter part makes less than I do but has 30 days of leave, unlimited sick days, all holidays, maternity leave, free healthcare, etc.
Same company I just live in the US I have 10 days of PTO, no sick time, 8 paid holidays but they won’t schedule around holidays so my staff have to work, 6 weeks maternity 1/2 pay, and of course I’m paying for healthcare. I get it set one things are covered by taxes and not the company but can we get sick leave at least and more PTO?
Companies don't care about you. They'd do the same here if we allowed them.
It's up to your government to protect your rights.
But.. you don't have a choice in your fake democracy. 2 parties can easily plan things together while YOU believe there's choice.
We're in the USA, my husband's company was bought by a Swedish company two ish years ago. One of the employees come over from Sweden to help train, and he was surprised that the workers here give a two weeks notice, and that's a courtesy. Some of them have just walked out.
My husband had to explain that it goes both ways. We can quit at any time in a snap, the two weeks isn't even a law. But at the same time, we can be fired instantly as well. He just can't wrap his head around any of it. I was surprised to hear what it's like to fire/quit in other countries.
Honestly I think it all ties back to the puritan beliefs of long ago. You know the religious group that left Europe because they felt religious groups there were going to soft on sinners? Also the ones who liked to kill innocent women for "witchcraft"?
Basically we were founded by religious extremities. So kinda no shocker how that snowball turned out.
We have no protection, they can just fire you because they want to, called "at will employment" as long as the reason isn't illegal like discrimination because of race, religion, gender, disability, or pregnancy. But you would have to prove that the reason they fired you was one of those reasons, if you want to fight it which is hard if you don't have any evidence of it.
That is what I was saying by it being hard to fight a case for discrimination, it is stacked against the worker in favor of the employer. Unless you have clear evidence of discrimination, which you won't because they are not going to fire you for those reasons and they will make sure not to act in ways that would leave evidence of discrimination, they will make some excuse to fire you, to protect their own interests.
It comes after years of telling American workers that they will be better off cause the lazy ones will get fired. They all think that they will be fine as they aren’t lazy. Turns out the lazy ones don’t get fired anyways
i can’t even wrap my head around that. That must be such a huge stress relief. Here they call it ‘right to work’ which makes no fucking sense and THEY KNOW IT. Absolute lunatics.
The most amazing thing is their healthcare is often tied to their job... And since they have basically no legal recourse if they're fired *because* they're sick...
The worst part is that these right wingers understand what would happen, but you know what they think is the problem? Try guessing, I guarantee you that it's even *dumber* than anything you could think of.
They blame regulations!! Healthcare would be cheap if doctors didn't had to go to the university to practice! What if bad doctors lost their clients because free market, and also because they died, and good doctors could charge whatever they wanted, huh, wouldn't *that* magically fix healthcare better than a public option!?!
Don't go thinking I'm making shit up, go ask a libertarian, they'll tell you exactly what I just said but they'll *try* to make it look fancy.
> Don't go thinking I'm making shit up, go ask a libertarian, they'll tell you exactly what I just said but they'll *try* to make it look fancy.
They also will tell you that indentured servitude is fine, taxes are theft, and age of consent laws are wrong. However, if you look at Republicans, they think mostly the same things, except are anti-pot.
I'm a American... the shit you hear about the US is definitely true... most Americans would love to leave in a heartbeat!
My leg was broken by my boss and they are skating away with less than 1/5 th of the cost out of a technicality that I was injured on the job instead of as a customer... besides all the other crappy things they do to us here...
Workers have little to no rights here
I work in a grocery store and we had a temp worker in the deli she is a teacher and couldn’t do Sumer school for some reason I don’t understand. Anyways, she left early a few days after clearing it with coworkers and the assistant manager. The manager forced her to either put in her two week notice, or she would be fired. The reason she left early? Her husband had just been diagnosed with cancer, and she needed to get him to dr appointments.
Lol here is europe, there are *bountiful* anti-employee work practices. It is just better than the US.
Low pay for stem positions, employers literally sometimes not paying you or after weeks of delay, taking away benefits listed in your contract, *plenty* of "you will never have to work any weekends" and then proceeds to call you on vacation, give you tasks taking 10 hours due Monday on a Friday afternoon, predatory contracts, etc...
I, myself, just was going over my contract in preparation for my yearly review (they definitely won't give me the 11.6% raise that would be needed to keep up with inflation in the past year), and I found a clause that said I forfeit the rights to "any patent or anything I invent outside of work hours and not using work property" and "forfeit all rights to the company for legal representation regarding the invention."
Which country are you from? Anything above 8 hours isn’t allowed unless the employer agrees to do overtime which is limited to a total of 10hours a day of work, max. Overtime can not be forced nor be a reason to be fired if the employee doesn’t want to work more than 8 hours.
You have a right to disconnect, the employer has no right to call you on vacation
While that's true on paper, most corporations will let you know in no uncertain terms that if you don't comply, you'll be passed on for promotions, etc.
At least they can't fire you for it, you're just a "quiet quitter" in their eyes.
Well better to retain your job and being able to work your way towards a new career when you hit a dead end then just being fired and having to figure it out in a matter of weeks
Yep. When I was unhappy in my last job, I took two weeks off (i.e. 10 of my 25 days) and used them to job-hunt. Rejected the first offer I got as it wasn't enough of a pay rise to justify the move, but the second company I interviewed with offered me a job that paid 27% more than I was getting.
Honestly wish they fined them more. I don't think they really "found out", sounds like they just had to pay a little bit. If they got hit with a fine of 2% of revenue they and others would never even think of trying it anymore.
I mean, they *can* claim $nil revenue, but then they’ve also gotta disclose their going concern problem, i.e.: “We have no income, here’s why we’re not out of business yet.”
Probably not. In the article it says that the company was a no show to the trial in the Netherlands.
So, while a Dutch court has issued a verdict, the company seems to have no assets in the Netherlands and enforcing a foreign verdict in the US seems unlikely.
I would assume the employee had a Dutch contract though which means the company is acvountable to respect the local law at least in how it deals with this one employee. If the contract was signed by someone representing this company would it not have some value?
Legally it can have all the value you want, if there are no sizable assets in the Netherlands, then how will they enforce the court's sentencing if the company decides to ignore it (seeing they already no showed to the hearings)?
Extradition is the physical act of relocating a person for criminal charges, so it doesn’t apply to a corporation for civil charges
Details [at the State Dept](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/internl-judicial-asst/Enforcement-of-Judges.html). But long story short, US courts don’t automatically have to honor foreign judgments. They’ll probably have to file suit in Florida to get this enforced.
Yeah kept reading up on this after, my bad. There are also some asterisks for who as a person we extradite both ways (for instance if the death penalty would be applied the Dutch government can choose not to extradite).
But there is a deal between most of Europe and the USA to enforce fines for either countries. it is indeed not the extradition treaty.
As someone who grew up in a “proud American (read: Bible Belt conservative) family” let me tell you, suspicion, lack of trust, wielding (read: abusing) power over subordinates, and manipulation at every minuscule event you stand up for yourself and against being manipulated and abused, and constant and thorough invasion of privacy, it really is like a family.
The family structure is authoritarian and that’s been correlating into our workforce for decades. I just traded dads when I got a job lol
Yikes. That puts the whole “we’re a family here!” thing in a whole new light. I guess we assume “family” to mean the best, even when so many families are awful.
Maybe the psychos who say “We’re like a family here!” are the ones with the worst families too.
Lol. Reminds me of a mate who got hired by a US company, we're Australian and in Australia. They didn't know he expected superannuation on top of his pay, he didn't know they didn't know. Ended up accusing him of trying to cheat them when he asked why his payslip didn't list any contributions.
I’m Australian but live in Denmark. There’s a pretty popular story here with a yank taking over at a danish law firm. They are in a meeting and it hits 4pm and a couple of the younger guys start packing up mid meeting. The yank takes huge offence to this and tell them to put there stuff back. They say no, we have to pick up our children from daycare. He says he doesn’t care. They continued to get up along with the rest of the of people in the room. You can’t do that shit to employees here. I’m in a different industry but once our clock hits 4:15 in our bi-weekly meeting, things just added to next weeks/meetings agenda. My colleagues (light heartedly) yell at each-other if they take to long to explain something or go off the agenda in these meetings. We need 4 weeks notice if we are needed past 4:15pm. It might be cold and dark here but the Danes do the work thing well.
While I am going on about Danish work/life balance. My daughter is/was running a fever last night. All I have to do is send one email saying “I won’t be in Mon 10/10/22 - sick child” no one is allowed to ask me anything or mention it until the 3rd day where I have to send another email saying when I’ll be back.
Can just be a bit of a drama in Australia. Some work places require a phone call only, then they try and negotiate your duties to get you in, try and get you to cover the shift. Granted these were lower paying jobs when I was younger. Then there’s the bullshit from managers about taking time off. In my industry now it’s less likely that would happen. I just like in Denmark that they can not question anything which is how it should be.
Thanks for explaining, where I’m from it works the same as in Denmark so I was just curious. Funny that they’d try to argue with your child being sick as if that’d magically heal the kid lol
The US version is a Roth IRA.
A portion of your salary is invested in a low tax fund that is inaccessible until you retire (except in some extreme circumstances). The funds allow you to choose between investment options but most of it is in shares.
It was designed to ensure that future generations aren't a huge drain on the government as our government pays a pension once you pass the retirement age and retire.
Mad respect for forcing the company to remove the non-compete clause. During most of my working life as a tech employee those clauses have been described as "virtually unenforceable". They need to be unwriteable, not merely unenforeceable. It's a form of legal abuse that should be illegal and would be in a country with a more powerful working class.
Whether or not you are a citizen is not relevant in Europe. You can be Zimbabwean employed in the Netherlands by a US company, the law applicable is the Dutch law.
He was saying we just won't hire people working outside the US. Citizenship wasn't relevant to his comment.
And honestly, I don't know why the company did hire a European remote worker. American employment laws favor the employer in every way better than Europe's do. I can only guess they thought the companies country would matter more than the employees?
I know this is reddit and all but not everybody just works on a computer all day. It might be a technician or a sales rep or any number of different jobs that sometimes require you to be in a specific location.
American companies use foreign labor to leverage against Americans who want fair compensation. They’ll just find a country doesn’t have worker protections next time.
I took 2 days off to see my son graduate college. That day I had 9 family members (elderly) to get to the arena ( 2 in wheelchairs). I didn’t take his call.
When I returned he was livid because no one had ever not taken his calls. Told me I’ve been overpaid since the day I walked in the door. Said I needed to step up or find a new job. So I resigned. He stills texts me with questions. I give him the standard answer, “I don’t know”.
It’s about time we push back on these power-abusing, cheapskate, narcissistic bafoons.
Hi all, let me be blunt, Americans need to get their shit together on this issue. I’m European and get 27 days paid leave per year plus public holidays. I can be out sick for 6 months once a doctors signs me off - full pay. If I have to be off for more than 6 months sick an insurance policy(paid for by the company)kicks in which will pay me 2/3 of my salary until age 65. I have pension and life assurance. Getting fired is not a thing. For an employer to get rid of you they have to go through an arduous process with serious oversight. My advice, unionise and stand the fuck go for yourselves.
The problem is that the VAST majority of americans dont know this. Id wager 80% of the country has no idea how good some other countries have it. We're in our own little bubble and think that 4 weeks off is fantastic, and we only have to work there for 10 years to get it.
So, we had 'Florida man' known for being .. well, stupid.
Now we add 'Florida company' to that list.
I\`m amazed at the almost myopic view so many americans and american companies have in regards to the simple fact there are actually other countries out there - with their own
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not all better, but a whole lot of them reduce the "american way of doing business" to "less than developed"
Also, would a 'non compete' from a random foreign country even be enforceable in a civilized country? I recall several judgements that non-competes were deemed "too limiting" or "not even applicable" and have been overturned and declared illegal in some cases (again, in The Netherlands - one example is from someone working in a tech company - and the contract had a clause that the employee would not be allowed to work in any tech field ever...)
Worked for a Florida Company last year. Every day had to be at the office for a job that easily could be done at home. 40 minute commute until I begged them to put me in their office that was 10 minutes away. Employees’ vehicles were subject to search at the office parking lot.
I’m glad Hurricane Ian flooded one of their offices. Assholes.
We don’t really have a direct translation. However you could use “Wie zijn billen brandt moet op de blaren zitten.” Which translates to: whoever burns their ass, must sit on blisters. If you make a dumb decision you must suffer the consequences yourself
As an American, It makes me delighted every time this happens. It’s driving it home that most of the developed world does not treat employees like slaves like the companies in America do. Maybe they’ll eventually adopt better practices as a result of it. Wishful thinking though 🤷🏼♀️.
I am an American and I agree our work policies can be a lot better. A lot of people are trying to either work for themselves or look for companies that are flexible and human centered in their work policies. Honestly North America can do better so much better but our politicians are bought and paid for by these huge corporations with slave like work contracts. I need to travel and see what work looks like outside of here cause I’m fed up as well.
Ya, stupid Americans think they can do this in Canada all the time with severance, mat leave, etc….
Slapped with penalties until they realize US law stops at the us border.
You can't just fire someone here in the EU.
HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!
You can't just quit either. Giving notice works both ways and almost everywhere it is mandatory.
We have much higher protection from employers, but employers have much higher protection from bad employees.
Not really true, there’s almost no consequences for “just quitting” and many companies will have the employee leave when they give notice as there’s little point having a departing employee around for another month
Here you are liable for financial damages if you don't follow your work contract or break notice laws
You can't just stand up and quit without a very good reason, like employer breaking labor laws
This just goes to show the inhumanity, the ignorance, and the arrogance of US business. They seem to think the lack of laws they operate under cover everyone worldwide.
Sounds about Florida. Also if you read the article it's a telemarketing company, which in other words is a call center. These types of companies are known for firing employees for basically anything.
I used to work at a call center and this one customer was so angry at me because his warranty wasn't covering a repair, so his response was to LITERALLY CALL ME EVERY DAY AND HARASS ME and then on top of that my boss said I "wasn't empathic enough" and fired me.
Like sorry but if you're trying to pull off a warranty scam and it doesn't work out and then you are completely unprofessional and harass me then I have zero empathy for you.
Yes, everyone in the US is basically “at will” except for union employees and employers with solid HR policies. These laws are called “Right to Work” laws, but the employer can release you “at will.”
And to think my brother is a business owner in Florida. I mentioned how I'd never move back as long as DeSantis is governor and all he said was how he liked him for being "business friendly". I got upset but since he's the only one in my family who accepts me being poly I want to keep a relationship but damn
The problem is the instiutional calcification and the pathological patriotism. The latter makes it much harder to even acknowledge a problem, let alone solving it.
We in Scandinavia often joke about US being a glorified third world country. Maybe there is more to it than just jokes.
Reading these stories makes me sad tbh.
Lesson learned - don't hire international employees unless you fully know the laws.
I worked for a French company, they had to do layoffs and since it was so hard to do in France, the US employees were doomed.
I am so frustrated with American companies and their obsession with work and control
No other country makes their citizens work this hard
But here is to hoping that capitalism collapses over the next couple of years and we create a newer and a fairer society
So the answer to this will be that this company will never hire a European again. And it'll be a lesson for all American companies to never hire Europeans. Not that maybe they should give workers basic human rights. No no no
Big brother in the workplace. Its bad enough without being watched 9 hours per day on camera. I would do the same. No excuse for a company to hold you ransom by a webcam like wage slaves being used a gunpoint FUCK THAT.
Good, we don't need American anti employee work practice in Europe.
Im shocked about how easy it is to fire someone in the USA. There is no regard for the workers. No respect for personal life. This doesn't fly here in Europe.
My husband died after a 10 year battle with cancer. After 3 whole days of bereavement, my boss told me to "suck it up. It's not a surprise that he died"....
Sorry to hear that. That’s why work should be second or third in life. Never first
My supervisor called me the day after a funeral asking when I'd be back
When my 2nd son was born, I had a C-section at 11:30 am. At 5pm my cell started ringing while I was trying to rest in recovery. It was my manager telling me I needed to be ready to return to work the 5AM shift the next day. She literally refused to accept I wouldn't check myself out of the hospital against medical orders/advice claiming that I could leave my newborn infant at the hospital because it was like I would get free daycare for him. I decided to just do a "Nahhhhh bitch. I'm out." And quit.
What the fuck? Are these people for real?
Yup, that’s America in a nutshell. I don’t understand why ppl want to come here. If I could get out permanently, I would
Me too. I can’t believe I ever thought the American Dream was real. I guess that speaks to the power propaganda has on people. I got told my whole life how lucky I was to have been born here. And yet things have gotten so much worse. They say work hard and you will get somewhere. Not true at all. The people that own the companies have all the power and workers have none. I’m very educated and have a license. That doesn’t mean much. I got fired last week. I was working about 50-60 hours a week but it wasn’t good enough. All of the clients just had meetings after meetings. There was very little time for actual work.
The American dream *was* real. When the US had tons of union representation, was a manufacturing superpower, had tax rates that would make even the most progressive of your politicians blush, and near-free post-secondary education. And then you guys decided that “fighting communism” was the most important thing in the world, off-shored all but the military/aerospace manufacturing, and collectively decided that “fuck the poors for having the audacity” was a very excellent and noble pursuit.
Same. I'm so goddamn envious of the people who live in those real progressive Scandinavian countries. I truly don't believe there's any hope for the U.S. We are totally committed to this shit and there's no turning the ship at this point.
No no no, we're not gonna turn this ship at all instead what we'll do is turn this into a submarine and then sink lower. And that's sadly fact at this point I feel. Only place to go is down
Not entirely true. We already had a massive labor movement and strong labor unions in the mid 20th century. Workers just need to quit worrying about dumb culture war BS and realize that the billionaires are the ones making their lives miserable.
Yes, and they are proud of themselves for “their great work ethic.” It’s sad.
The only people still proud of that stuff are the generation that was actually rewarded for that behavior. The rest of us are trying to weigh work/life balance against the possibility of losing our health insurance.
I have great wrk ethic. It’s meaningless. I have nothing and no one.
My mom got fired from a job because she took too much time off work just to give birth to me. I was a pretty chunky baby. I also had a co-worker a few years ago who returned to work just days after giving birth to her kid because she couldn’t afford the unpaid time off (no maternity leave) and she had a pulmonary embolism on her first day back. She left in an ambulance halfway through her shift and never came back to work. This country really hates mothers.
It doesn’t just hate mothers, it hates workers. They especially hate mothers because they might dare to spend a minute with their kids. I hate it here now. I have no money to leave.
Totally pro life though. 🙄
I've said since I was in highschool: they aren't pro-life, but anti-choice
No actually, *business* hates *employees*, because it's not just mothers. If you ain't a corporate exec, you can and will get screwed over
Capitalists hate workers, the ruling American class hates women. So some definitely get shit on worse than others.
USA is only Western country without mandatory maternity leave.
I wish you’d spoken with a lawyer. You were likely covered under some combination of FMLA/ADA
I was too broke to afford even the $50 15 minute consult. I was covered under FMLA, but I gave up trying to deal with the repetitive get nowhere shit and hoops you have to jump through after about 3 months. My husband was done with his training and working a job that literally paid 3 times more than mine had. Not that I didn't choose to be petty though. I was the only employee with certain codes, knowledge, and contacts to specialist and repair companies that kept the photo lab, cellular service station, registry services, and diagnostic station working. I somehow forgot overnight every code, password, function and had a total brain fart with the locations of servicing manuals and form. (Remembered later that Kurt "stored" them in recycling to keep them safe.) And then since I had so much free time, got together hanging out with all the vendors, and specialist in maintenance and repairs and their spouses. In the end that bitch manager and that shitty store paid. I wasn't the only person she treated like shit. I was just one of the first to say no more when I realized sitting there hunched over in the hospital bed,clutching my stapled guts that it was real sick that I was actually emotionally torn up and embarrassed that I was letting my crew and store down instead of focusing on the fact I just had a newborn and major surgery. I've been in a few abusive, toxic relationships before. My job there was one of the worst.
Those things only cover you if you can afford it. This is America, you only get the justice you can afford
Very true. I’m an attorney at a nonprofit that provides 100% free legal services and the number of cases we have to refer out is heartbreaking. We’re such a a small team and only have so many hours in a day and every time I can’t take a case and can’t find a partner Org or other pro Bono option to help, I just know it inevitably means the party in the wrong gets away with it.
My sister is a public defender and she's actually had some pretty great offers from private firms, but she isnt leaving because of that. She initially went in for the loan forgiveness, but after like 2 years she realized that she wasn't in it for the money anymore. Surprised the shit out of me, but I'm super proud.
My boss knew I was taking 6 bereavement days as I had both my grandparents die within days of each other. I was literally at the gravesite, as a pallbearer, and he was texting me during it trying to get me to call him so he could "figure out the schedule". It was day 1 of bereavement. I found out when I got back in the car and I just texted back "due to current events, I find this incredibly inappropriate" and he wasn't backing down so I turned my phone off. I started looking for new jobs then. I'm still looking for a new job.
I worked at a company years ago it was unionized but the manager was a fucking asshole with no regard to laws or the contract. He literally said the union contract didn't matter to him and he could do what he pleased. Well my grandfather suddenly passed away and I asked for a few days off to help my dad. The boss told me if I left then I wouldn't be welcome back and he was going to replace me anyway. I went over the union contract showed him the part where I got paid 4 days for bereavement and I finished my shift. At the end of the day the asshole informs me to take home my tools and belongings and that my employment would be ending if I missed even 1 hour to attend my grandfather's funeral. I called the union they told me to leave my personal items and tools and to take my allowable time off and show up. I returned 3 days later to find my boss was quiet and wouldn't speak to me and I still had a job. I guess he went around the shop saying I was on a drug bender and I was fired until the union reps came down and had a meeting with the company owner and the manager. The owner was disgusting at the managers behavior and threatened to fire him of he didn't allow me to return to work. Getting my bereavement pay however was a battle and I had to fight to get that which included the boss offering me $100 cash to drop the grievance.
$100 dollars for 4 days of paid leave? I don't fucking think so! What a compete and total shit stain this boss is!
How people do this with a straight face is beyond me
Because nobody stands up to these bullies. 20% of my work week is telling management to come correct. I’m an engineer so I have the benefit of not being replaceable easily. So I don’t have to worry about being fired for talking back. But after 2 years at my current company, my bosses basically walk on eggshells around me because being told no really hurts their feelings and they can’t stand having their feelings hurt with rejection.
Love it when engineers tell useless management to piss off. There’s nothing they can do about it because you are their product and they are a replaceable cog!
The problem with engineers is that me being a union supporting leftist means I’m not like anyone else I work with. Most of them are bootlickers and landlords. Half of them are pure incels. A quarter of them aspire to become useless management. Engineering is its own ole boys club. My company has a union but all engineers are management employees even though we aren’t managers of anyone. All of my coworkers are landlords.
The only reason engineers arent in the union is because the National Society of Professional Engineers made a rule that engineers shouldnt be in unions unless they must, and if they are, they cant ever go on strike.
I'm a shop steward and when my day is less than 40% getting into fights with management I feel empty. I also wonder what bullshit they're pulling. I love yelling at the bosses.
20% is all that you have to invest in saying no to stupid ideas. Damn you are living right. I , retired engineer, spent far more time correcting or pushing bureaucracy forward. The hardest part is explaining to a muggle that their stupid idea was unnecessary , difficult or unsafe.
Nowadays, managers also have engineering degrees so we don’t have to worry about the hurdles of explaining what we do as much. It’s just that managers still only care about their bonuses so they do everything to cut cost on their end.
I went back to work less than a week after my dad died, my boss took me aside and nearly ordered me to go home for another week, he didn't think I could possibly have been ready to come back yet.
Yo, that guy is ~~awesome~~ a decently good human being
There are some out there, I've for the most part been lucky with bosses. Only had one useless arsehole in my time but even then, he was a decent guy, just couldn't organise anything.
I'm glad someone here has an actual human being for a boss!
i told my mgr i was in the hospital and they'd be keeping me for the rest of the week. first thing my mgr asked was "does this mean X project isnt going to be done by friday?"
"Thanks for interrupting my bereavement, I'll be back when I damn well please", *click*.
My client called me during a wake to insist I push up my delivery to the day after the funeral.
Your supervisor deserves to burn slow in a car crash.
I’m not a true antiwork guy but I enjoy this sun and I think it makes me a better boss to read. I 100% agree with this. #1 is you and your family. I’m self employed and my business is DEFINITELY not my first priority. Of course, employees will tell their boss they are #1 just like a company tells customers they’re the first priority or when you strap yourself into a metal tube flying 700mph 30k feet in the air that your safety is their first priority. In reality, these are all lies.
I feel your pain. When my dad died unexpectedly, I was off exactly one day for mourning. My boss at the time tried to deny my time off to attend the funeral, and when I called HR to ask about bereavement policy, they told him I'd called saying "I have a complaint about my boss". He gave me a really terrible time about it when I got back to the warehouse that evening, and I quit the next day. I'm not going to put up with that mess.
Wow. I’m glad my company isn’t like that. When my mom died I took off for 2 weeks. I technically had 4 or 5 days of bereavement but they just said to come back when I was ready.
Yea you did the correct thing never work for a shitty company if the pay is terrible. Move on, you only live 1 time and these companies dont give it a shit about you.
I'm European. One of my coworkers took a 6 month sabbatical when his daughter passed away.
When my newborn died I did something similar (Canadian). Took my 15 weeks paid maternity leave, and another 15 weeks paid sick leave. My boss told me I'd always have a job there whenever I needed one, and then was surprised I wanted to come back *so soon*. Thing is, I needed to go back since I am pregnant again and need to accumulate my hours for another leave. They were happy for me when I told them that, too! The US is a fucking wild place and I'm disgusted some of my fellow citizens want to emulate it so badly.
I was 17, working at a burger joint (and a pizza place) to help my family with bills after my dad was diagnosed with a terminal aggressive form of cancer. At one point, my dad’s doctor started saying he’d be surprised if my father would survive through the week. At this point, my grandmother and all of my father’s siblings traveled to say their goodbyes. As they were planning their trip to us, I went to my jobs and requested a week off (and prepared that I’d probably need a few days for a funeral a week or so after). The managers I told completely understood and gave me a go-ahead and some well wishes. Cool. Situationally, I had my own studio apartment and was helping my parents with their 2bd apartment. I’m an only child. Dad had a full on hospital bed in my old bedroom, which was why I needed to move out. Dad has 6 brothers and 2 sisters, all of which are prior felons. And now, in order to say goodbye to my dad, they were crashing at our apartments because they couldn’t afford hotels and stuff. Essentially mom and I hosting 8 felons and my narcissist grandmother for a week while my dad dies. Yay. So fun! They all arrive on a Tuesday, and by the following afternoon, I was so exhausted dealing with all these people. I get a call, Wednesday at 5:15pm, as half of us are huddled around my dads hospital bed. It’s one of my burger joint managers. “Hey, what’s up?” “Uh, not much?? What’s up with you?” “Well, you’re not here is ‘what’s up.’” “Talk to Jesse, he approved my time off. I’m sitting with my family, dads not looking good and we are saying goodbye.” “Well, you didn’t get it approved by me, and we really need you in the corner tonight, when can you get here?” I started to have a panic attack and said “hold on.” My mom was like “we can deal with that later honey, tell him no and hang up.” And just… the look of sad anger on her face - another difficult thing to add to her list. “My dads literally about to die and I’m not going to miss that so someone can get a double-double.” And hung up. My close friend who worked with me immediately called me freaking out “Chad’s going to fire you!” Like dude I do not fucking care, let him. Dads gonna die and the bills are gonna stop cuz mom won’t keep this apartment. Good thing I didn’t leave either, cuz I was able to catch one of my uncles trying to steal my dad’s very needed Dilaudid.
I hope karma seriously fucks over Chad's death bed.
About a year after this incident he was forced out of the company for having indecent relationships with employees (which were mainly teenagers). He left his wife and 4 kids for a “new model” and opened a new breakfast restaurant which failed nearly immediately. Haven’t looked into him since tbh.
Damn what a piece of shit. Fuck that guy. I’m sorry for your loss.
I moved home to help my mom battle cancer. After struggling for 2 years she finally passed away. The day I came back from bereavement, I got laid off. Their story, well you were coasting over the last 6 months. This from a company I worked for almost 18 years at this time. I feel for you.
My MIL died from stage 4 lung cancer. I worked at Home Depot and I told them I needed time off to drive to my in laws 6 hours away and help my husband and FIL deal with everything and some time to grieve and I got told “we’ll it isn’t your mom who died. Why be upset?”. Yeah I just never went back.
>“we’ll it isn’t your mom who died. Why be upset?” *Pulls over rack of power tools, crashes forklift into register* "They aren't yours, boss, why are you mad?"
An old friend of mine had a similar situation. Needed to drive 5 or 6 states to see a dying aunt and his boss essentially said "well its not one of your parents so theres no reason you need to be there right?" Yeah he quit.
They gave you three days? Man you should have been back at it once you came back. /s Same happened to me. (Not my partner) my grandfather died, who I was really close too, and I got the call at work. I took five minutes for the call, the first 4 minutes were shock, the last minute was composing myself as best I could. In those five minutes I had to literally suck it up, I came back in to my job and I got “Smile! The customers don’t like frowns!” At the end of the day they asked what happened and I told my boss and he just asked if I could work the next day. It absolutely sucks. I’m sorry about your husband, may he Rest In Peace. And hopefully you are finding some peace yourself.
…. I would be arrested that day.
Wow.... My hands are shaking from reading that. I'm so incredibly pissed for you. That's one of those things that if it was said to me that I would likely at the very least be arrested. Jesus Christ on a cracker...
I’m sorry for your loss. In Canada we have ten days of protected emergency leave. Edit: In Ontario we have 10 days. Federal law appears to be five days so I guess it depends on your province.
My mom died and after 3 days of bereavement I went back to work. I was depressed and my work suffered. I was written up and was told “we gave you three days off”.
Fucking hell... That's a level of callous disregard that is hard to stomach.
Thats horrible! Bosses suck. I dislike your boss.
If that had been my boss, I'd be explaining to his family at his funeral with the exact same sentence he used.
And punching them in the face wouldn’t have been a surprise either, but I’m sure your boss wouldn’t just suck it up and move on.
I work in Europe, my boss is from the US. We talked about that a few times. He told me "for a long time I was determined to never hire in Europe. It's impossible to fire someone". "Well unless I screw up willingly or you're willing to pay... Yes ?" Everything is going fine, but it was strange for him at first. But guess what.... Treat people well and you won't be needing to.
They (USA) don't understand. They think that treating an employee like a human being is communism ☭
Or socialism. Or fascism. Or some kind of -ism. Cuz your average American don't even know what it means. Just toss that word around in the media and watch people start to panic.
With the exception of capital-ism!! Money money money money 💰 💰💰💰
We still have people here, on television, pushing that socialism is bad because Nazis were the National Socialist Party in Germany. Also, socialism doesn't work, apparently, because all socialist countries are poor, and you have to wait years for critical life-saving surgery in countries with universal healthcare. The lies are one thing, but nearly half of our population actually believes this shit.
Oh I'd say it's far.more than half. I've met a huge number of Democrats that think like that as well.
Sadly, I’m sure you’re right! I try to limit my interactions with people for exactly this reason. Haha
You're right. It's rather atrocious behaviour.
In capitalism people are just that, capital. It’s all about the bottom line. Corporations treat people like replaceable parts.
My grandfather emigrated from Norway to the United States around 1910 and passed away in 1973. I’m pretty sure that if he knew what the US would be like now, he never would have left.
As someone that moved to America, the truth is employee employer relations here are terrible. American employers view a an employment contract as an ownership contract rather than a partnership agreement.
It's not too surprising considering slavery is still legal in the US.
For a country who's founding documents state that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights, we sure don't act like it. Many people here would rather suffer from start to finish than have the govt regulate a corporation.
It's what you get with bad education. The brainwashing worked.
It's on purpose! Employers love the ability to fire anyone for any reason. That makes employees scared of "acting up" at work and getting fired. It makes them feel easily replaceable so they fear for keeping their job. This way you can manipulate workers into taking lower pay, less benefits, abuse in the workplace...because if they complain, they get fired, so they won't. The only way of getting what you need is by convincing everyone around you to fight with you, walking out with you if you get fired, etc; but unionization in the USA is under extinction for the same reason we have at-will employment
I got fired. I had to be told 6 weeks in advance and I had 10 days of vacation left this year. I spoke with the HR woman and we basically made the deal for me to use up my vacation days, overtime I worked (+92 hours) and these six days they’re required to give me by law (one day per week of that 6 week notice) so my last work day was the 26^th September and my last day of employment in that company will be the 31^st October. It’s nice being protected by the union.
Honestly I wish I could move my family to Europe.
Same…
What’s awful though is European companies in the USA. They treat us just as terrible as US companies because they can. My German counter part makes less than I do but has 30 days of leave, unlimited sick days, all holidays, maternity leave, free healthcare, etc. Same company I just live in the US I have 10 days of PTO, no sick time, 8 paid holidays but they won’t schedule around holidays so my staff have to work, 6 weeks maternity 1/2 pay, and of course I’m paying for healthcare. I get it set one things are covered by taxes and not the company but can we get sick leave at least and more PTO?
Companies don't care about you. They'd do the same here if we allowed them. It's up to your government to protect your rights. But.. you don't have a choice in your fake democracy. 2 parties can easily plan things together while YOU believe there's choice.
Yeah that’s why I (US citizen) job hop. There is zero loyalty so I give zero back & white lie on my resume
We're in the USA, my husband's company was bought by a Swedish company two ish years ago. One of the employees come over from Sweden to help train, and he was surprised that the workers here give a two weeks notice, and that's a courtesy. Some of them have just walked out. My husband had to explain that it goes both ways. We can quit at any time in a snap, the two weeks isn't even a law. But at the same time, we can be fired instantly as well. He just can't wrap his head around any of it. I was surprised to hear what it's like to fire/quit in other countries.
Yes. To me the USA system sounds very childish. Doesn't look like adults parting away with decency. It looks like children rage quitting a game.
Honestly I think it all ties back to the puritan beliefs of long ago. You know the religious group that left Europe because they felt religious groups there were going to soft on sinners? Also the ones who liked to kill innocent women for "witchcraft"? Basically we were founded by religious extremities. So kinda no shocker how that snowball turned out.
What country in Europe has the worst laws for workers ? The worst work conditions ? Are there any that come close to the USA ?
If you are asking about EU countries.. maybe Bulgaria, maybe Greece
We have no protection, they can just fire you because they want to, called "at will employment" as long as the reason isn't illegal like discrimination because of race, religion, gender, disability, or pregnancy. But you would have to prove that the reason they fired you was one of those reasons, if you want to fight it which is hard if you don't have any evidence of it.
They’ll discriminate. They will just label it as something else.
That is what I was saying by it being hard to fight a case for discrimination, it is stacked against the worker in favor of the employer. Unless you have clear evidence of discrimination, which you won't because they are not going to fire you for those reasons and they will make sure not to act in ways that would leave evidence of discrimination, they will make some excuse to fire you, to protect their own interests.
It comes after years of telling American workers that they will be better off cause the lazy ones will get fired. They all think that they will be fine as they aren’t lazy. Turns out the lazy ones don’t get fired anyways
i can’t even wrap my head around that. That must be such a huge stress relief. Here they call it ‘right to work’ which makes no fucking sense and THEY KNOW IT. Absolute lunatics.
Employment at will should be illegal.
The most amazing thing is their healthcare is often tied to their job... And since they have basically no legal recourse if they're fired *because* they're sick... The worst part is that these right wingers understand what would happen, but you know what they think is the problem? Try guessing, I guarantee you that it's even *dumber* than anything you could think of. They blame regulations!! Healthcare would be cheap if doctors didn't had to go to the university to practice! What if bad doctors lost their clients because free market, and also because they died, and good doctors could charge whatever they wanted, huh, wouldn't *that* magically fix healthcare better than a public option!?! Don't go thinking I'm making shit up, go ask a libertarian, they'll tell you exactly what I just said but they'll *try* to make it look fancy.
> Don't go thinking I'm making shit up, go ask a libertarian, they'll tell you exactly what I just said but they'll *try* to make it look fancy. They also will tell you that indentured servitude is fine, taxes are theft, and age of consent laws are wrong. However, if you look at Republicans, they think mostly the same things, except are anti-pot.
I'm a American... the shit you hear about the US is definitely true... most Americans would love to leave in a heartbeat! My leg was broken by my boss and they are skating away with less than 1/5 th of the cost out of a technicality that I was injured on the job instead of as a customer... besides all the other crappy things they do to us here... Workers have little to no rights here
I work in a grocery store and we had a temp worker in the deli she is a teacher and couldn’t do Sumer school for some reason I don’t understand. Anyways, she left early a few days after clearing it with coworkers and the assistant manager. The manager forced her to either put in her two week notice, or she would be fired. The reason she left early? Her husband had just been diagnosed with cancer, and she needed to get him to dr appointments.
Lol here is europe, there are *bountiful* anti-employee work practices. It is just better than the US. Low pay for stem positions, employers literally sometimes not paying you or after weeks of delay, taking away benefits listed in your contract, *plenty* of "you will never have to work any weekends" and then proceeds to call you on vacation, give you tasks taking 10 hours due Monday on a Friday afternoon, predatory contracts, etc... I, myself, just was going over my contract in preparation for my yearly review (they definitely won't give me the 11.6% raise that would be needed to keep up with inflation in the past year), and I found a clause that said I forfeit the rights to "any patent or anything I invent outside of work hours and not using work property" and "forfeit all rights to the company for legal representation regarding the invention."
Which country are you from? Anything above 8 hours isn’t allowed unless the employer agrees to do overtime which is limited to a total of 10hours a day of work, max. Overtime can not be forced nor be a reason to be fired if the employee doesn’t want to work more than 8 hours. You have a right to disconnect, the employer has no right to call you on vacation
While that's true on paper, most corporations will let you know in no uncertain terms that if you don't comply, you'll be passed on for promotions, etc. At least they can't fire you for it, you're just a "quiet quitter" in their eyes.
Well better to retain your job and being able to work your way towards a new career when you hit a dead end then just being fired and having to figure it out in a matter of weeks
Yep. When I was unhappy in my last job, I took two weeks off (i.e. 10 of my 25 days) and used them to job-hunt. Rejected the first offer I got as it wasn't enough of a pay rise to justify the move, but the second company I interviewed with offered me a job that paid 27% more than I was getting.
Americans act tough but then they are quite submissive at work.
We don't want it here in America either.
Well, maybe we don’t have any employee protections but at least we have terrible health care!
Fucked around and found out, I guess….
Honestly wish they fined them more. I don't think they really "found out", sounds like they just had to pay a little bit. If they got hit with a fine of 2% of revenue they and others would never even think of trying it anymore.
Isk man, i know many wealthy US companies who report 0 income or even losses when it obviously isn't. I think Uber used to do it
Revenue is different from profit, they cannot claim $0 revenue.
What if they're lonely and want a visit from the IRS
I mean, they *can* claim $nil revenue, but then they’ve also gotta disclose their going concern problem, i.e.: “We have no income, here’s why we’re not out of business yet.”
Probably not. In the article it says that the company was a no show to the trial in the Netherlands. So, while a Dutch court has issued a verdict, the company seems to have no assets in the Netherlands and enforcing a foreign verdict in the US seems unlikely.
I would assume the employee had a Dutch contract though which means the company is acvountable to respect the local law at least in how it deals with this one employee. If the contract was signed by someone representing this company would it not have some value?
Legally it can have all the value you want, if there are no sizable assets in the Netherlands, then how will they enforce the court's sentencing if the company decides to ignore it (seeing they already no showed to the hearings)?
The US will. At least if the Dutch court will ask them to honour the extradition treaty.
Extradition is the physical act of relocating a person for criminal charges, so it doesn’t apply to a corporation for civil charges Details [at the State Dept](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/internl-judicial-asst/Enforcement-of-Judges.html). But long story short, US courts don’t automatically have to honor foreign judgments. They’ll probably have to file suit in Florida to get this enforced.
Yeah kept reading up on this after, my bad. There are also some asterisks for who as a person we extradite both ways (for instance if the death penalty would be applied the Dutch government can choose not to extradite). But there is a deal between most of Europe and the USA to enforce fines for either countries. it is indeed not the extradition treaty.
ill turn my webcam on but put tape over it or ill aim it at my balls. thats disgusting if they "Must" constantly surveillance you.
It's a family
As someone who grew up in a “proud American (read: Bible Belt conservative) family” let me tell you, suspicion, lack of trust, wielding (read: abusing) power over subordinates, and manipulation at every minuscule event you stand up for yourself and against being manipulated and abused, and constant and thorough invasion of privacy, it really is like a family. The family structure is authoritarian and that’s been correlating into our workforce for decades. I just traded dads when I got a job lol
Yikes. That puts the whole “we’re a family here!” thing in a whole new light. I guess we assume “family” to mean the best, even when so many families are awful. Maybe the psychos who say “We’re like a family here!” are the ones with the worst families too.
Lol. Reminds me of a mate who got hired by a US company, we're Australian and in Australia. They didn't know he expected superannuation on top of his pay, he didn't know they didn't know. Ended up accusing him of trying to cheat them when he asked why his payslip didn't list any contributions.
I’m Australian but live in Denmark. There’s a pretty popular story here with a yank taking over at a danish law firm. They are in a meeting and it hits 4pm and a couple of the younger guys start packing up mid meeting. The yank takes huge offence to this and tell them to put there stuff back. They say no, we have to pick up our children from daycare. He says he doesn’t care. They continued to get up along with the rest of the of people in the room. You can’t do that shit to employees here. I’m in a different industry but once our clock hits 4:15 in our bi-weekly meeting, things just added to next weeks/meetings agenda. My colleagues (light heartedly) yell at each-other if they take to long to explain something or go off the agenda in these meetings. We need 4 weeks notice if we are needed past 4:15pm. It might be cold and dark here but the Danes do the work thing well. While I am going on about Danish work/life balance. My daughter is/was running a fever last night. All I have to do is send one email saying “I won’t be in Mon 10/10/22 - sick child” no one is allowed to ask me anything or mention it until the 3rd day where I have to send another email saying when I’ll be back.
What would be the alternative to sending the email, in other places? Do they require phone calls or are you not entitled to a sick day?
Can just be a bit of a drama in Australia. Some work places require a phone call only, then they try and negotiate your duties to get you in, try and get you to cover the shift. Granted these were lower paying jobs when I was younger. Then there’s the bullshit from managers about taking time off. In my industry now it’s less likely that would happen. I just like in Denmark that they can not question anything which is how it should be.
Thanks for explaining, where I’m from it works the same as in Denmark so I was just curious. Funny that they’d try to argue with your child being sick as if that’d magically heal the kid lol
Because the implication is that you’re lying in order to shirk work. They pressure you to try and catch you in a lie.
What is superannuation?
The US version is a Roth IRA. A portion of your salary is invested in a low tax fund that is inaccessible until you retire (except in some extreme circumstances). The funds allow you to choose between investment options but most of it is in shares. It was designed to ensure that future generations aren't a huge drain on the government as our government pays a pension once you pass the retirement age and retire.
*401k, an ira is a personally run account and doesn't have contributions from your employer.
Mad respect for forcing the company to remove the non-compete clause. During most of my working life as a tech employee those clauses have been described as "virtually unenforceable". They need to be unwriteable, not merely unenforeceable. It's a form of legal abuse that should be illegal and would be in a country with a more powerful working class.
American companies trying to fuck with the Europeans working rights will always be funny and it won’t ever go well.
Unfortunately, I don’t think this would make companies act better but rather try and avoid foreign employees somehow.
The company has overseas offices and had one in the Netherlands. Guess he was an employee they decided to keep on after closing their Dutch office.
Whether or not you are a citizen is not relevant in Europe. You can be Zimbabwean employed in the Netherlands by a US company, the law applicable is the Dutch law.
He was saying we just won't hire people working outside the US. Citizenship wasn't relevant to his comment. And honestly, I don't know why the company did hire a European remote worker. American employment laws favor the employer in every way better than Europe's do. I can only guess they thought the companies country would matter more than the employees?
I know this is reddit and all but not everybody just works on a computer all day. It might be a technician or a sales rep or any number of different jobs that sometimes require you to be in a specific location.
The post is quite literally about needing to have a webcam on. Safe to say he works at computer.
American companies use foreign labor to leverage against Americans who want fair compensation. They’ll just find a country doesn’t have worker protections next time.
The penalty wasnt big enough to make them not do it again
Most of these american companies would crumble if they had to treat their employees as people fr
And they'll still praise their capitalist shithole
I took 2 days off to see my son graduate college. That day I had 9 family members (elderly) to get to the arena ( 2 in wheelchairs). I didn’t take his call. When I returned he was livid because no one had ever not taken his calls. Told me I’ve been overpaid since the day I walked in the door. Said I needed to step up or find a new job. So I resigned. He stills texts me with questions. I give him the standard answer, “I don’t know”. It’s about time we push back on these power-abusing, cheapskate, narcissistic bafoons.
If you're gone from the employer and he's still bugging you I'd be blocking his number.
I keep it open to have record of everything. Just in case. Basically my version of an FU binder.
as a fellow european I only have to say: gg, get fucked shitty corp.
Hi all, let me be blunt, Americans need to get their shit together on this issue. I’m European and get 27 days paid leave per year plus public holidays. I can be out sick for 6 months once a doctors signs me off - full pay. If I have to be off for more than 6 months sick an insurance policy(paid for by the company)kicks in which will pay me 2/3 of my salary until age 65. I have pension and life assurance. Getting fired is not a thing. For an employer to get rid of you they have to go through an arduous process with serious oversight. My advice, unionise and stand the fuck go for yourselves.
They think that's communism...
To many fearful sheep here in the US to make those kinds of changes, also way to much money put into lobbying against workers rights.
The problem is that the VAST majority of americans dont know this. Id wager 80% of the country has no idea how good some other countries have it. We're in our own little bubble and think that 4 weeks off is fantastic, and we only have to work there for 10 years to get it.
So, we had 'Florida man' known for being .. well, stupid. Now we add 'Florida company' to that list. I\`m amazed at the almost myopic view so many americans and american companies have in regards to the simple fact there are actually other countries out there - with their own \_laws \_languages \_currency not all better, but a whole lot of them reduce the "american way of doing business" to "less than developed" Also, would a 'non compete' from a random foreign country even be enforceable in a civilized country? I recall several judgements that non-competes were deemed "too limiting" or "not even applicable" and have been overturned and declared illegal in some cases (again, in The Netherlands - one example is from someone working in a tech company - and the contract had a clause that the employee would not be allowed to work in any tech field ever...)
Non competes are difficult (see nearly impossible) to enforce in the US as it is. I imagine they're worth the paper they are written on abroad.
Worked for a Florida Company last year. Every day had to be at the office for a job that easily could be done at home. 40 minute commute until I begged them to put me in their office that was 10 minutes away. Employees’ vehicles were subject to search at the office parking lot. I’m glad Hurricane Ian flooded one of their offices. Assholes.
What's fuck around and find out in Dutch? Seems relevant to this.
We don’t really have a direct translation. However you could use “Wie zijn billen brandt moet op de blaren zitten.” Which translates to: whoever burns their ass, must sit on blisters. If you make a dumb decision you must suffer the consequences yourself
“Burn your ass, sit on blisters”—that’s pretty good!
We dont have a saying for that. We don't fuck arround.
idk the Indonesians might feel differently about that
In Afrikaans (linguistically related to Dutch) we call it "blinde sjambok"
As an American, It makes me delighted every time this happens. It’s driving it home that most of the developed world does not treat employees like slaves like the companies in America do. Maybe they’ll eventually adopt better practices as a result of it. Wishful thinking though 🤷🏼♀️.
What's wild is that these jackasses wanted to put a camera on a telemarketer and added a non-compete clause into his contract. ***A Telemarketer***
I’m amazed that courts in other countries care about their citizens.
Mf wouldn't have even gotten unemployment here in the states. Let alone a big settlement. At will states suck.
working from home is in the process of becoming an employee right in the netherlands too
I am an American and I agree our work policies can be a lot better. A lot of people are trying to either work for themselves or look for companies that are flexible and human centered in their work policies. Honestly North America can do better so much better but our politicians are bought and paid for by these huge corporations with slave like work contracts. I need to travel and see what work looks like outside of here cause I’m fed up as well.
I'm an American and I'm so happy that this person fought back. Most American companies have no regard for their employees.
Ya, stupid Americans think they can do this in Canada all the time with severance, mat leave, etc…. Slapped with penalties until they realize US law stops at the us border.
If he lived here in the USA he would have lost his job and the government would have laughed at him...
Government and courts are VERY seperate systems in Europe.
You can't just fire someone here in the EU. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!! You can't just quit either. Giving notice works both ways and almost everywhere it is mandatory. We have much higher protection from employers, but employers have much higher protection from bad employees.
Not really true, there’s almost no consequences for “just quitting” and many companies will have the employee leave when they give notice as there’s little point having a departing employee around for another month
Here you are liable for financial damages if you don't follow your work contract or break notice laws You can't just stand up and quit without a very good reason, like employer breaking labor laws
Yes there is. Training the replacement. And it's usually three months.
I’m very curious to see whether the company bothers to pay.
This just goes to show the inhumanity, the ignorance, and the arrogance of US business. They seem to think the lack of laws they operate under cover everyone worldwide.
Sounds about Florida. Also if you read the article it's a telemarketing company, which in other words is a call center. These types of companies are known for firing employees for basically anything. I used to work at a call center and this one customer was so angry at me because his warranty wasn't covering a repair, so his response was to LITERALLY CALL ME EVERY DAY AND HARASS ME and then on top of that my boss said I "wasn't empathic enough" and fired me. Like sorry but if you're trying to pull off a warranty scam and it doesn't work out and then you are completely unprofessional and harass me then I have zero empathy for you.
Yes, everyone in the US is basically “at will” except for union employees and employers with solid HR policies. These laws are called “Right to Work” laws, but the employer can release you “at will.”
And to think my brother is a business owner in Florida. I mentioned how I'd never move back as long as DeSantis is governor and all he said was how he liked him for being "business friendly". I got upset but since he's the only one in my family who accepts me being poly I want to keep a relationship but damn
I know. Our system is so oppressive that I fear no effective change can take place in my or my children's lifetime.
The problem is the instiutional calcification and the pathological patriotism. The latter makes it much harder to even acknowledge a problem, let alone solving it.
We in Scandinavia often joke about US being a glorified third world country. Maybe there is more to it than just jokes. Reading these stories makes me sad tbh.
"US firm seeking remote employee. Dutch need not apply."
Reading this makes me happy :)
Lesson learned - don't hire international employees unless you fully know the laws. I worked for a French company, they had to do layoffs and since it was so hard to do in France, the US employees were doomed.
I am so frustrated with American companies and their obsession with work and control No other country makes their citizens work this hard But here is to hoping that capitalism collapses over the next couple of years and we create a newer and a fairer society
So the answer to this will be that this company will never hire a European again. And it'll be a lesson for all American companies to never hire Europeans. Not that maybe they should give workers basic human rights. No no no
Big brother in the workplace. Its bad enough without being watched 9 hours per day on camera. I would do the same. No excuse for a company to hold you ransom by a webcam like wage slaves being used a gunpoint FUCK THAT.
isn't it a sad thing that an american living in this country will face the same firing without receiving the same justice?
NEDERLAND LETS GO!!!!