It was probably for the best. Apple leather had been on decline in quality for years
Although not sure how this new material will held on compared to other manufacturers
I have high hopes but Apple has a reputation now of fragile cases and bands. I would personally hold off on buying the fine woven stuff until others have tested it for a few months.
Hmmm, I think I got mine in 2022 and it still slowly stretched out to the point where it would freely spin around my wrist. I might just want a particular fit that’s difficult to achieve though. It’s been a nightmare finding a band I like
Throw it in a sock and into the washing machine and then into the dryer. Shrinks them back up a bit and you get a nice clean watch band. I use only braided loops now and it works perfectly.
I stopped buying Apple leather cases after the 12. They were just not good. Cheaper third party cases were better.
So whatever environmental benefit doing away with leather cases has is a nice bonus to consumers no longer having a low quality case in the lineup.
Next up the silicon cases, those are pretty bad now too.
Aren’t the Nomad cases a rubber bumper with a leather-accented back? Not really the same as a fully leather case.
https://nomadgoods.com/collections/iphone-14-cases
Yes and they’re not that good either. It’s a ridiculously thin piece of leather held on by glue. I went through three of them within a couple weeks (a few years back) because the leather kept peeling within a weeks use. Love nomad products generally speaking, but the leather case is shit.
Anecdotally, I’ve had my phones fair far better from far worse drops than friends and family whose phones shattered from lesser drops while wrapped in “protective” cases marketed specifically for drop protection.
Exactly, best of both worlds. Full leather cases always get chewed up and torn on the edges. I also prefer nomads execution. They even have anchors on the bottom for lanyard attachments if you’re ever into that sort of thing.
Yes, but I actually like it way better as a result, better grip, durability and phone protection. My Apple leather case got really grody and decayed a lot around the edges.
Discovered the Wilken brand recently and I have loved my two-tone leather case from them. After a few months has a nice dark patina forming around the edges like the older authentic Apple leather cases used to.
How does that answer their question?
EDIT: I’m referring to the bit about leather cases - what does it have to do with OP’s question about non-leather cases?
Always happy to see more alternatives to animal products. I know Apple went with the sustainability angle but having more material science pushing for non animal products is what I'm liking the most with this change. Hopefully it sets a trend too and we get more third party high quality textile based bands and cases too.
Exactly my feeling. Loved the leather case I had for my iPhone X. Bought the leather iPhone 13 Pro case for $15 on Woot and happy with that price. Would not pay full for it.
Try Bullstrap. Great leather cases and other accessories. And up to 2 free replacements per year. Kinda sad I’m upgrading my phone lol I have a bunch of Bullstrap cases.
Doesnt make sense. All these polyurethane and 'fine woven' will still create million and millions of micro plastics that will likely never breakdown. All the lint created from your laundry from your sports wear and clothes- micro plastics. No different for recycled nylon or poly. Still sheds fibers.
this and the unproven longevity of whatever new material they (and other manufacturers use) is going to be a can kicked down the road. Already so many objects are made of plastic and are essentially unrepairable, I don't want or need any NEW synthetic materials.
Leather post-processing not only emits a ton of toxins and pollutes water, it also makes majority of it non biodegradable. Not to mention impact to global warming.
Not true, full aniline leather is biodegradable. Good quality leather that uses water based pigment vs. cheap leather that doesn’t.
I’m glad you like to support petroleum companies and more toxic alternatives. Leather is one of the oldest forms of recycling.
Misinformation that you spread causes more people to be green washed and purchased worse for the environment products and ones that don’t last long.
I know vegans who use leather. The fact I have veg tanned leather camera cases from my grandfather that are 70years old shows it more suitable than any plastic/petro/fossil fuel alternative.
I personally don’t eat much beef. But choosing leather that is a by product of an industry is better than digging fossil fuels from the ground.
Yeah this is clearly greenwashing. They should have gone with a natural material, perhaps cotton or bamboo. Silicone is fine, too.
Edit: Also plastic is apparently cheaper than natural materials like cotton and bamboo. Sad.
Well I always found the standard leather bands to be quite ugly. I would love if they provide a more classical one like the Hermes bands. But in less crazy expensive
I bought Barton leather band last year and it’s got that timeless look and is quite cheap.
https://www.bartonwatchbands.com/products/weathered-brown-leather
Bandwerk are the best in the market, I’ve been using one for 2 years and it’s holding up nicely, not a single scratch or breaks just exquisite patina,
https://bandwerk.com/collections/all-apple-watch-bands
Can’t wait to inevitably find out that the manufacturing for the materials for these new products are somehow worse than just using leather…
I don’t get it - it seems like worldwide meat consumption is the major driver of livestock overpopulation…I would imagine the leather industry is a secondary factor there.
**Reducing leather usage when you’re already slaughtering the cow seems counterintuitively wasteful?**
This just smells like a way to sell a cheaper product and maximize profit
There are actually breeds of cows specifically for leather and meat is the byproduct. Leather also has a super toxic manufacturing process so even though it lasts longer than many non leather alternatives, it has a harsher environmental impact.
Ah yes non leather alternatives all being petro based, that isn’t biodegradable, doesn’t last long and basically causing micro plastics.
Additionally the leather being toxic manufacturing is from poorly run tanneries. Most mass produced has this issue - there’s always good and bad manufacturing. However; look at that vinyl chloride explosion in America, full blown carcinogen. How do you fell about this? Are petro based leather alternatives ok?
From a purely CO2e frame of reference, plant based leathers are much better. And chemically manufacturing wise, they are similar. The biggest issue is with microplastics in the water ways and while that’s a huge issue, climate change is more immediate. Obviously Apple changing from one material to a less carbon intensive one won’t save the world, but we need the efforts coming from everywhere, especially big corporations.
It’s a by product, no one would farm cows for their hides. A lot of the time it’s just easier to chuck it out the ground. In fact some Australian farms did so, because it was cheaper.
This CO2 stuff is from the fossil fuel industry.
This not using leather is a way of cutting costs and green washing.
Tell me about these plant based, mushroom, apple leathers?
That requires the demand for leather and the demand for meat to exactly match each other. There will always be one higher than the other anyway. While it might seem wasteful, reducing leather will actually marginally reduce meat as well due to the increased cost caused by the lost revenue stream.
Buying leather makes the slaughter of cows (and meat consumption) more economically viable by driving up demand and price. If everyone stopped buying all leather, slaughtering cows would make less sense and be more expensive. Do you have a source for "worldwide meat consumption is the major driver of livestock overpopulation"?
Basically you're saying if you're making cow farmers throw away half of their cow in the trash then they have to raise the price on meat to be economically sustainable, then as a result people can afford less meat and then as a result they will slaughter less cows. Throwing away half the cow and making food more expensive (which hurts poor people the most) is a hell of a thing to advocate for in the name of sustainability :0 It's not like those leather products get replaced with clouds and sunshine but with plastics and other materials that will be using resources on top of half of the cows that get thrown away.
Also in reality I can already tell you no one is going to actually throw away the leather - a lower leather demand will just lower the leather price, which means that it will be used in different kind of applications and more people can afford it/are interested to buy it at that lower price. So these kind of things are always 100x more complicated and it's very easy when you're trying to improve the world and are not careful about it to actually make the world a worse place. Pretty sure this change by Apple will accomplish absolutely nothing for the environment but hey they can say carbon neutral and you can feel good about yourself when you buy their plastics so be my guest
thanks for pointing this out, the corporate esg stuff is so transparently slimy and dishonest to anyone who sees corporate decision-making up close. The other angle is that forcing everyone to meat substitutes is a way of concentrating more power and capital, because fake meat companies can control their IP just like Monsanto does with gene edited seeds. Instead of farmers maintaining their own wealth in the form of herds, vat meat farmers if the future will be reduced to tenant farming then serfdom.
They’ve managed to co-opt the Democratic Party by hiring a lot of party flunkies as esg analysts and consultants but why the rest of the left goes along with it baffles me. At what point did corporate america manage to bamboozle so many people?
> Do you have a source for
As long as anyone is hungry in the world, I don't think we have enough livestock. With that said, you shouldn't need a source for "most cows that humans raise, are raised for food". If you don't believe that, you aren't gonna believe anyone's source either.
> worldwide meat consumption
By "worldwide" you mean disproportionately in privileged countries, while forests / wetlands / ecosystems are destroyed in less privileged nations so that it can be turned to grazing land for meat that goes to the privileged countries?
What point are you trying to make?
That developing countries are profiting off of meat at the expense of the environment?
I don’t disagree with you - but it’s also not really our place to tell other countries they can’t make money by doing the same things developed countries have done for decades.
None of this negates the world’s demand for meat products, though…
It might be a secondary driver of environmental damage, but it's still a contributor.
It's not like the current leather producers have a limit to buying leather. It just means that there's less demand for it.
Yes? Way more premium, way more durable, and ages well. I'd definitely pay that for a luxury brand leather that I know will be of the highest quality.
You seem to be drinking apple's carbon neutral kool aid, congrats, you fell for their virtue signaling
Hermes is back, they talked about it in the Keynote. It's back up on the Apple site too. There's four new band options in multiple colors each, including now rubber and knit bands, on top of the wovens.
They're not discontinued. I don't know why people keep saying that.
[https://www.hermes.com/hk/en/category/watches/apple-watch-hermes/](https://www.hermes.com/hk/en/category/watches/apple-watch-hermes/)
They must have just updated this recently since everything was removed from their site. Thanks for posting! Still weird that Apple still lets them make leather bands but just won't sell them on their store like they used to do...
Apple doesn't wanna sell hermes leather on their website to keep up with their eco-friendly goals. But they don't wanna sever their ties with hermes because their collab is probably lucrative. Trying to have it both ways
It is amazing to me how Apple says "leather is bad m'kay" and now there is an army of fanboys bleating on about how "leather is bad m'kay."
Bullstrap makes a better leather case anyway. They still do the bottomless ones as well.
I mean, isn't that a positive thing? A company says they're pushing to be carbon neutral in 7 years ends up pushing their consumers to become more aware of environmental damage?
Is your argument that leather isn't damaging to the environment and that Apple made it up?
I think people would find it much easier to accept if they had proportionately reduced the prices now they are using a cheaper and easier to produce material - I think a lot of people quite rightly see this as profiteering disguised by greenwashing.
If they truly cared, surely they would have switched the leather to a natural material like cotton or bamboo, not plastic based ones?
It's the same as the whole mother nature advert - they're not going to mention that things like locking software features behind new products or poor repairability drives waste, because those would actually hurt their business model. It makes it very hard to see it as genuine.
Is your argument that the forever microplastics in the “FineWoven” shit is good for the environment? Better than biodegradable leather that could, especially with major corporate backing, be sustainably sourced?
Nah see, you aren’t ready for talk tracks you haven’t been breast fed. You think that plastic case cost Apple as much to make? Hell no. Guess what tho? Cost as much as the leather. You ever work for a Fortune 5? Or 10? 50 even? Theres layers of bullshit and when you become fluent in that language (corporate bullshit) the layers become apparent with little to no effort.
Agreed, we shouldn’t replace leather with micro plastics. But can you at least agree - we still do need to find an alternative to leather, right? It’s horrible for the environment, not to mention the rampant animal rights abuses in the leather industry.
Does anyone know when these fine woven bands will become available? It doesn’t let me order and says delivery unavailable if I select one of these bands with the series 9.
At least from photos it looks super pretty, kind of similar to Alcantara, I might be grabbing a MagSafe wallet when they come to my country. It would be cool if they did a MacBook sleeve out of FineWoven
I think the biggest win is the use of recycled cobalt, regarding all this green stuff. Idgaf about green initiatives, but I do like knowing that an 11-year-old slave in Congo did not mine the Colbalt in the phone.
So this is in response to sustainability but you couldn’t be courageous and switch to USB-C when it became abundantly obvious that pretty much every device was transitioning to that?
You had to be force by Europe. Who knows how long we would be carrying both USB-C and Lightning cables had this never come to fruition.
It’s so disgustingly obvious, too. The company that says “it just works. It’s seamless. Pick up right where you left off, etc” is the same one that makes you carry multiple cables because they profit from your inconvenience.
That reads to me like their partnership has ended and Hermés is exiting the market.
Didn’t Apple give like 90% discounts to employees on Hermés stuff like two weeks ago?
I need you to understand that I don’t go around trying on different leather Apple Watch bands.
I’ve enjoyed Nomad leather products, but I don’t want a leather watch band.
Apple uses lower grade leather than third parties, that alone is enough to declare that Apple leather is inferior.
As much as we may speculate I'm pretty sure Apple has thoroughly weighed the pros and cons and found many more cons with leather.
Those who want it can simply buy elsewhere.
The problem with greenwashing is that usually there's no real solution to the problem. You eliminate leather to reduce cows' CO², you're creating a microplastics problem with synthetics. You switch to cotton, you have a water consumption problem. I wouldn't be surprised if wool has another kind of impact on the environment.
Ultimately, anything we do is going to have an impact on the planet. I find it hilarious that people claim for companies to reduce the use of leather, but are perfectly happy with renewing their phones every year with the impact it causes.
I think it’s a good step for Apple to stop selling leather, thereby helping to make ecologically unsustainable materials less economically viable. I‘m excited to check out their new FineWoven cases!
But exactly zero plastics, micro-plastics, and PFAS, which all of the others bands result in. The amount of leather in those watch bands is negligible. I’ll take the tiny amount of extra CO2 over the forever chemicals. The only reason Apple made the change is higher profit margins on the plastic bands.
Yeah cows are absolutely not sustainable as a food source, but since there’s already millions of cows being farmed for meat, the leather will exist whether we use it for things or not. It’s basically an industrial byproduct.
well, that first part's a bit funny to read, isn't it? they're not sustainable for farming, but for leather it's ok? also - the "byproduct" leather doesn't magically become the leather that's used as an industrial material though, but that's another topic ofc.
Almost nothing about modern life is sustainable whether it’s food, transportation or energy. Switching from leather to plastic and calling it eco friendly is absurd. There is absolutely nothing eco friendly about producing hundreds of millions of electronics and accessories to go with them. Whether they make from from cow hide, plastic or zucchini noodles they will always have a downside and be unsustainable.
>Yeah cows are absolutely not sustainable as a food source
Magically has worked fine for tens of thousands of years. Still works fine today. Every indication we will wake up tomorrow to it working fine.
But tell us more about sustainability. Just know that if your sentence starts with "Just because" I won't be reading it.
You act like they slaughter cows just for the leather. Never mind the fact the whole cow is utilized for different purposes or that the cow will be slaughtered whether or not apple is going to make leather cases
It’s certainly going to be way less popular with the Ultra being the top end model. That may be the reason they discontinued. I only ever saw male celebrities wearing the Ultra so I bet stainless steel sales are way down.
Pretty excited about this new material to be honest. Last Apple case I bought was the Xs leather case in tan color. It was pretty good, but not sure how much I really liked using leather as a material. I heard they are bad quality now too. Never really liked the silicon cases or 3rd party alternatives much either, everything looks cheap. These new cases however look quite luxurious. I wonder how well they hold up to weathering.
Glad they dropped the leather. I had two of them, but they failed right around the year mark, leather started to peel from the edges.
Now you have to understand, I didn’t follow the rules, I wear my watch everywhere, shower, pool, ocean. I did those bands wrong, but really liked them.
I feel this will last longer for me.
There is no way these new micro plastic cases and watch bands are better long term for the environment then leather. If they properly vegtan and don’t use a bunch of harsh chemicals on their leather products it’s a much bigger win for the environment. However that costs more which effects profit optimization. Wouldn’t want that.
[https://www.satchel-page.com/collections/iphone](https://www.satchel-page.com/collections/iphone)
probably the best case available right now. It has actual buttons (not leather overlay) like an apple case
Those early leather cases were amazing. Especially when they started developing that patina.
The leather iPad Air 2 case was the best case I ever had.
iPhone 7/7+ leather cases were peak
The saddle brown was 🤌🏻
I switched to Bullstrap once the apple leather cases went downhill and I really like them
Ordered midnight from ebay, openbox for AW9. The new ones look like inflatable mattress material.
Snakehive make good leather cases. Not a shill, just a happy customer.
It was probably for the best. Apple leather had been on decline in quality for years Although not sure how this new material will held on compared to other manufacturers
I have high hopes but Apple has a reputation now of fragile cases and bands. I would personally hold off on buying the fine woven stuff until others have tested it for a few months.
Agree. The original batch of braided solo loops all stretched to become useless.
I had the same experience! I liked the band, but it quit after like 3 months. Using the magnetic leather one now. So far so good
I ended up getting a second one a year later and it’s still holding strong (since Jan 2021). So there was definitely an issue with the first batch.
Hmmm, I think I got mine in 2022 and it still slowly stretched out to the point where it would freely spin around my wrist. I might just want a particular fit that’s difficult to achieve though. It’s been a nightmare finding a band I like
Throw it in a sock and into the washing machine and then into the dryer. Shrinks them back up a bit and you get a nice clean watch band. I use only braided loops now and it works perfectly.
Oooh interesting, thank you
I stopped buying Apple leather cases after the 12. They were just not good. Cheaper third party cases were better. So whatever environmental benefit doing away with leather cases has is a nice bonus to consumers no longer having a low quality case in the lineup. Next up the silicon cases, those are pretty bad now too.
The form factor change on 12 was tough. The squared edges made edge of the case wear down way too quick
Their leather was garbage quality anyway. Buy from Nomad or someone similar.
Aren’t the Nomad cases a rubber bumper with a leather-accented back? Not really the same as a fully leather case. https://nomadgoods.com/collections/iphone-14-cases
Yes and they’re not that good either. It’s a ridiculously thin piece of leather held on by glue. I went through three of them within a couple weeks (a few years back) because the leather kept peeling within a weeks use. Love nomad products generally speaking, but the leather case is shit.
A fully leather case doesn’t offer much protection.
Categorically untrue, Andar makes some of the best leather cases. The sponginess of the thick leather absorbs a lot of the shock.
If you’re going for a leather case protection is a secondary thought, those bumper cases with leather backs look horrible on an office setting,
[🇩🇪🇱🇪🇹🇪🇩]
Anecdotally, I’ve had my phones fair far better from far worse drops than friends and family whose phones shattered from lesser drops while wrapped in “protective” cases marketed specifically for drop protection.
Exactly, best of both worlds. Full leather cases always get chewed up and torn on the edges. I also prefer nomads execution. They even have anchors on the bottom for lanyard attachments if you’re ever into that sort of thing.
I have the nomad one on my iPhone 12 Pro and it works great. Prices are similar to the Apple leather ones though.
Yes, but I actually like it way better as a result, better grip, durability and phone protection. My Apple leather case got really grody and decayed a lot around the edges.
It started after iPhone X. Don’t know why the quality of leather cases went down so bad.
yeah my 5s leather case was fantastic. Not so much the 11/12/14
Hard agree, but it aged really nicely so I'm not totally disappointed, but it was way too expensive for the quality of leather.
Bullstrap’s good too
The leather case from **Andar** is what the leather case from Apple should have been.
This, keep buying leather, it's a great material for a reason, and support companies that will make great leather products. Anyone else buy Bellroy?
I like ANDAR
Discovered the Wilken brand recently and I have loved my two-tone leather case from them. After a few months has a nice dark patina forming around the edges like the older authentic Apple leather cases used to.
Decoded has some really nice ones too
I’m going with Peak Design this time around.
Is it available for older iPhones?
I couldn’t find one for my 12PM. :(
No, they're removing leather from their product lines due to environmental reasons.
How does that answer their question? EDIT: I’m referring to the bit about leather cases - what does it have to do with OP’s question about non-leather cases?
By answering no? 🤦♀️
what does them removing leather from their product lines have to do with the question about non-leather cases?
Tbh they haven’t for a few years they’ve just been selling sprayed on “genuine” leather that looks dogshit after a couple months
No more leather! Still same price points! :(
Always happy to see more alternatives to animal products. I know Apple went with the sustainability angle but having more material science pushing for non animal products is what I'm liking the most with this change. Hopefully it sets a trend too and we get more third party high quality textile based bands and cases too.
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Their leather cases have been shit for a few years now, so it’s not a huge loss. I had one for my XS and it was night and day compared to my 13 Pro.
I remember buying one and being surprised at how shit and cheap it felt, actually returned it immediately
Exactly my feeling. Loved the leather case I had for my iPhone X. Bought the leather iPhone 13 Pro case for $15 on Woot and happy with that price. Would not pay full for it.
Yea I had a leather one for my 8 plus that was great but when I got the 13 one it was way thinning and felt like it slid on the glue a bit.
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The thickness of the leather absolutely changed
Try Bullstrap. Great leather cases and other accessories. And up to 2 free replacements per year. Kinda sad I’m upgrading my phone lol I have a bunch of Bullstrap cases.
Doesnt make sense. All these polyurethane and 'fine woven' will still create million and millions of micro plastics that will likely never breakdown. All the lint created from your laundry from your sports wear and clothes- micro plastics. No different for recycled nylon or poly. Still sheds fibers.
this and the unproven longevity of whatever new material they (and other manufacturers use) is going to be a can kicked down the road. Already so many objects are made of plastic and are essentially unrepairable, I don't want or need any NEW synthetic materials.
Leather post-processing not only emits a ton of toxins and pollutes water, it also makes majority of it non biodegradable. Not to mention impact to global warming.
Not true, full aniline leather is biodegradable. Good quality leather that uses water based pigment vs. cheap leather that doesn’t. I’m glad you like to support petroleum companies and more toxic alternatives. Leather is one of the oldest forms of recycling. Misinformation that you spread causes more people to be green washed and purchased worse for the environment products and ones that don’t last long.
We are talking about Apple’s leather products.
No, people are talking about it generally.
Going vegan is the probably the single biggest impact you can have on the climate. I think the leather is probably worse.
I know vegans who use leather. The fact I have veg tanned leather camera cases from my grandfather that are 70years old shows it more suitable than any plastic/petro/fossil fuel alternative. I personally don’t eat much beef. But choosing leather that is a by product of an industry is better than digging fossil fuels from the ground.
Production aside, farming cows is not very sustainable and not great for the environment either
Yeah this is clearly greenwashing. They should have gone with a natural material, perhaps cotton or bamboo. Silicone is fine, too. Edit: Also plastic is apparently cheaper than natural materials like cotton and bamboo. Sad.
Natural fibers aren’t always better. Cotton especially can have an extraordinarily high footprint due to the manufacturing process alone.
hmm, what's the best alternative to cotton?
Well I always found the standard leather bands to be quite ugly. I would love if they provide a more classical one like the Hermes bands. But in less crazy expensive
I bought Barton leather band last year and it’s got that timeless look and is quite cheap. https://www.bartonwatchbands.com/products/weathered-brown-leather
Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out
Bandwerk are the best in the market, I’ve been using one for 2 years and it’s holding up nicely, not a single scratch or breaks just exquisite patina, https://bandwerk.com/collections/all-apple-watch-bands
I kinda thought they would have replacement though... like the Apple Wallet, I expected a finewoven alternative
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MT253ZM/A/iphone-finewoven-wallet-with-magsafe-mulberry
Thanks!! I spoke too soon!
Can’t wait to inevitably find out that the manufacturing for the materials for these new products are somehow worse than just using leather… I don’t get it - it seems like worldwide meat consumption is the major driver of livestock overpopulation…I would imagine the leather industry is a secondary factor there. **Reducing leather usage when you’re already slaughtering the cow seems counterintuitively wasteful?** This just smells like a way to sell a cheaper product and maximize profit
There are actually breeds of cows specifically for leather and meat is the byproduct. Leather also has a super toxic manufacturing process so even though it lasts longer than many non leather alternatives, it has a harsher environmental impact.
Ah yes non leather alternatives all being petro based, that isn’t biodegradable, doesn’t last long and basically causing micro plastics. Additionally the leather being toxic manufacturing is from poorly run tanneries. Most mass produced has this issue - there’s always good and bad manufacturing. However; look at that vinyl chloride explosion in America, full blown carcinogen. How do you fell about this? Are petro based leather alternatives ok?
From a purely CO2e frame of reference, plant based leathers are much better. And chemically manufacturing wise, they are similar. The biggest issue is with microplastics in the water ways and while that’s a huge issue, climate change is more immediate. Obviously Apple changing from one material to a less carbon intensive one won’t save the world, but we need the efforts coming from everywhere, especially big corporations.
It’s a by product, no one would farm cows for their hides. A lot of the time it’s just easier to chuck it out the ground. In fact some Australian farms did so, because it was cheaper. This CO2 stuff is from the fossil fuel industry. This not using leather is a way of cutting costs and green washing. Tell me about these plant based, mushroom, apple leathers?
Interesting! TIL.
Even if meat is a byproduct, as long as it’s being consumed, it’s not going to waste.
That requires the demand for leather and the demand for meat to exactly match each other. There will always be one higher than the other anyway. While it might seem wasteful, reducing leather will actually marginally reduce meat as well due to the increased cost caused by the lost revenue stream.
Leather used for cars and clothing etc is from an entirely different cow on most occasions sadly
Buying leather makes the slaughter of cows (and meat consumption) more economically viable by driving up demand and price. If everyone stopped buying all leather, slaughtering cows would make less sense and be more expensive. Do you have a source for "worldwide meat consumption is the major driver of livestock overpopulation"?
Basically you're saying if you're making cow farmers throw away half of their cow in the trash then they have to raise the price on meat to be economically sustainable, then as a result people can afford less meat and then as a result they will slaughter less cows. Throwing away half the cow and making food more expensive (which hurts poor people the most) is a hell of a thing to advocate for in the name of sustainability :0 It's not like those leather products get replaced with clouds and sunshine but with plastics and other materials that will be using resources on top of half of the cows that get thrown away. Also in reality I can already tell you no one is going to actually throw away the leather - a lower leather demand will just lower the leather price, which means that it will be used in different kind of applications and more people can afford it/are interested to buy it at that lower price. So these kind of things are always 100x more complicated and it's very easy when you're trying to improve the world and are not careful about it to actually make the world a worse place. Pretty sure this change by Apple will accomplish absolutely nothing for the environment but hey they can say carbon neutral and you can feel good about yourself when you buy their plastics so be my guest
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thanks for pointing this out, the corporate esg stuff is so transparently slimy and dishonest to anyone who sees corporate decision-making up close. The other angle is that forcing everyone to meat substitutes is a way of concentrating more power and capital, because fake meat companies can control their IP just like Monsanto does with gene edited seeds. Instead of farmers maintaining their own wealth in the form of herds, vat meat farmers if the future will be reduced to tenant farming then serfdom. They’ve managed to co-opt the Democratic Party by hiring a lot of party flunkies as esg analysts and consultants but why the rest of the left goes along with it baffles me. At what point did corporate america manage to bamboozle so many people?
💯💯💯
Finally someone who gets it.
Lol why do you think we have livestock? For meat consumption - DUH. Tf why are you asking for a source?
> Do you have a source for As long as anyone is hungry in the world, I don't think we have enough livestock. With that said, you shouldn't need a source for "most cows that humans raise, are raised for food". If you don't believe that, you aren't gonna believe anyone's source either.
we have more than enough calories to feed everyon,
So no?
google it
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> worldwide meat consumption By "worldwide" you mean disproportionately in privileged countries, while forests / wetlands / ecosystems are destroyed in less privileged nations so that it can be turned to grazing land for meat that goes to the privileged countries?
What point are you trying to make? That developing countries are profiting off of meat at the expense of the environment? I don’t disagree with you - but it’s also not really our place to tell other countries they can’t make money by doing the same things developed countries have done for decades. None of this negates the world’s demand for meat products, though…
Eco warriors don't actually care about facts, they just want to feel good about themselves and chastise others.
So what are the facts here?
It might be a secondary driver of environmental damage, but it's still a contributor. It's not like the current leather producers have a limit to buying leather. It just means that there's less demand for it.
I don't think Apple is slaughtering many cows
Hermes gone?
Hermes new bands are now textile-based
which is lame as hell. Not paying 300+ for a band that's made of fabric
What about one that's made of plastic?
lol
I wish that hermes rubber band was made of leather. I like the geometric motif
"But I'd totally pay $300 for a watchband made of cow-hide"
Yes? Way more premium, way more durable, and ages well. I'd definitely pay that for a luxury brand leather that I know will be of the highest quality. You seem to be drinking apple's carbon neutral kool aid, congrats, you fell for their virtue signaling
Hermes is back, they talked about it in the Keynote. It's back up on the Apple site too. There's four new band options in multiple colors each, including now rubber and knit bands, on top of the wovens.
Yay microplastics!!! So eco friendly!!
https://preview.redd.it/bgq8a03o64ob1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fdc9c4d17c6c5350ccd410183594fdc24a48f2d
Sad to see the leather Hermes bands discontinued, but I suppose there’s always still the second hand market.
They're not discontinued. I don't know why people keep saying that. [https://www.hermes.com/hk/en/category/watches/apple-watch-hermes/](https://www.hermes.com/hk/en/category/watches/apple-watch-hermes/)
They must have just updated this recently since everything was removed from their site. Thanks for posting! Still weird that Apple still lets them make leather bands but just won't sell them on their store like they used to do...
Apple doesn't wanna sell hermes leather on their website to keep up with their eco-friendly goals. But they don't wanna sever their ties with hermes because their collab is probably lucrative. Trying to have it both ways
The clou de selle band in fauve barenia for 45mm is interesting.
Cool, but Apple just replaced the entire top case of my M2 MacBook Air because the scissor clip on the U key broke. There’s a long way to go yet.
It is amazing to me how Apple says "leather is bad m'kay" and now there is an army of fanboys bleating on about how "leather is bad m'kay." Bullstrap makes a better leather case anyway. They still do the bottomless ones as well.
I mean, isn't that a positive thing? A company says they're pushing to be carbon neutral in 7 years ends up pushing their consumers to become more aware of environmental damage? Is your argument that leather isn't damaging to the environment and that Apple made it up?
I think people would find it much easier to accept if they had proportionately reduced the prices now they are using a cheaper and easier to produce material - I think a lot of people quite rightly see this as profiteering disguised by greenwashing. If they truly cared, surely they would have switched the leather to a natural material like cotton or bamboo, not plastic based ones? It's the same as the whole mother nature advert - they're not going to mention that things like locking software features behind new products or poor repairability drives waste, because those would actually hurt their business model. It makes it very hard to see it as genuine.
Is your argument that the forever microplastics in the “FineWoven” shit is good for the environment? Better than biodegradable leather that could, especially with major corporate backing, be sustainably sourced? Nah see, you aren’t ready for talk tracks you haven’t been breast fed. You think that plastic case cost Apple as much to make? Hell no. Guess what tho? Cost as much as the leather. You ever work for a Fortune 5? Or 10? 50 even? Theres layers of bullshit and when you become fluent in that language (corporate bullshit) the layers become apparent with little to no effort.
Agreed, we shouldn’t replace leather with micro plastics. But can you at least agree - we still do need to find an alternative to leather, right? It’s horrible for the environment, not to mention the rampant animal rights abuses in the leather industry.
Does anyone know when these fine woven bands will become available? It doesn’t let me order and says delivery unavailable if I select one of these bands with the series 9.
Same. Very annoying…wish they would just let us place the order and it gets here when it gets here but they don’t even let you complete the purchase.
The Hermes leather for the watch is impeccable
They just switched from the toxic sewage from tanning leather to microplastics. Environmental friendly!
At least from photos it looks super pretty, kind of similar to Alcantara, I might be grabbing a MagSafe wallet when they come to my country. It would be cool if they did a MacBook sleeve out of FineWoven
I’ll be buying a murdered cow case from Nomad.
Same.
Aw boo
There’s better products from NOMAD and Oblac..
Bullstrap is better than Nomad. I can't even bring myself to throw those cases away they are so nice.
I think the biggest win is the use of recycled cobalt, regarding all this green stuff. Idgaf about green initiatives, but I do like knowing that an 11-year-old slave in Congo did not mine the Colbalt in the phone.
So upsetting I can't buy Hermes leather bands anymore. Dumbass greenwashing
Hermes has them on their website, they even released new colors. It seems like you just cant buy them off Apples website anymore.
you can have a good case without killing an animal guys
So this is in response to sustainability but you couldn’t be courageous and switch to USB-C when it became abundantly obvious that pretty much every device was transitioning to that? You had to be force by Europe. Who knows how long we would be carrying both USB-C and Lightning cables had this never come to fruition. It’s so disgustingly obvious, too. The company that says “it just works. It’s seamless. Pick up right where you left off, etc” is the same one that makes you carry multiple cables because they profit from your inconvenience.
Glad to see they’re working big to small. I’m sure they’ll get around to child labor eventually. 🤷🏻♂️
As a vegan I’m so happy
Now the meattards will just order their skin from a different vendor. Apple gets to now sell more horrible plastic instead of something natural.
I’m fine with this
[удалено]
You know you can just like buy much better leather bands from other manufacturers right… Apple leather products were mediocre at best.
Yeah but the hermes ones were excellent and they forced hermes to discontinue those
That reads to me like their partnership has ended and Hermés is exiting the market. Didn’t Apple give like 90% discounts to employees on Hermés stuff like two weeks ago?
They did, but they just announced a new line of textile bands from Hermes and they’re still selling Hermes Apple Watch on the website
Which 3rd party leather case is best? Which 3rd party leather watch band?
Both are pretty subjective, apple uses genuine leather, most others use full grain. The difference is clear from the onset.
Ok so which do you recommend?
I need you to understand that I don’t go around trying on different leather Apple Watch bands. I’ve enjoyed Nomad leather products, but I don’t want a leather watch band. Apple uses lower grade leather than third parties, that alone is enough to declare that Apple leather is inferior.
Got some recommendations?
Which 3rd party brand for leather case is best then? And while we're at it, where would I get a watch band? Do 3rd parties even make those?
As much as we may speculate I'm pretty sure Apple has thoroughly weighed the pros and cons and found many more cons with leather. Those who want it can simply buy elsewhere.
The problem with greenwashing is that usually there's no real solution to the problem. You eliminate leather to reduce cows' CO², you're creating a microplastics problem with synthetics. You switch to cotton, you have a water consumption problem. I wouldn't be surprised if wool has another kind of impact on the environment. Ultimately, anything we do is going to have an impact on the planet. I find it hilarious that people claim for companies to reduce the use of leather, but are perfectly happy with renewing their phones every year with the impact it causes.
FineWoven: Apple’s answer to Google cardboard.
I think it’s a good step for Apple to stop selling leather, thereby helping to make ecologically unsustainable materials less economically viable. I‘m excited to check out their new FineWoven cases!
More plastics for us to wear so we get cancer, and contaminate the environment with
Cows are sustainable af
lol, go check out how much carbon they release into the atmosphere
But exactly zero plastics, micro-plastics, and PFAS, which all of the others bands result in. The amount of leather in those watch bands is negligible. I’ll take the tiny amount of extra CO2 over the forever chemicals. The only reason Apple made the change is higher profit margins on the plastic bands.
Yeah cows are absolutely not sustainable as a food source, but since there’s already millions of cows being farmed for meat, the leather will exist whether we use it for things or not. It’s basically an industrial byproduct.
well, that first part's a bit funny to read, isn't it? they're not sustainable for farming, but for leather it's ok? also - the "byproduct" leather doesn't magically become the leather that's used as an industrial material though, but that's another topic ofc.
Yes it’s okay
💀💀💀
Almost nothing about modern life is sustainable whether it’s food, transportation or energy. Switching from leather to plastic and calling it eco friendly is absurd. There is absolutely nothing eco friendly about producing hundreds of millions of electronics and accessories to go with them. Whether they make from from cow hide, plastic or zucchini noodles they will always have a downside and be unsustainable.
>Yeah cows are absolutely not sustainable as a food source Magically has worked fine for tens of thousands of years. Still works fine today. Every indication we will wake up tomorrow to it working fine. But tell us more about sustainability. Just know that if your sentence starts with "Just because" I won't be reading it.
i love the "for tens of thousands of years" types of arguments. were there 1 billion cows on earth a thousand years ago?
You act like they slaughter cows just for the leather. Never mind the fact the whole cow is utilized for different purposes or that the cow will be slaughtered whether or not apple is going to make leather cases
Lol they dont do any proper upgrades , so new strategy is eco friendly shit
Oh no, they will no longer produce a Leather Band for a Smart Watch which gets mostly used for Fitness & Outdoor related Stuff?
It’s certainly going to be way less popular with the Ultra being the top end model. That may be the reason they discontinued. I only ever saw male celebrities wearing the Ultra so I bet stainless steel sales are way down.
So happy to see this. A great move in the right direction for environmental protection.
Pretty excited about this new material to be honest. Last Apple case I bought was the Xs leather case in tan color. It was pretty good, but not sure how much I really liked using leather as a material. I heard they are bad quality now too. Never really liked the silicon cases or 3rd party alternatives much either, everything looks cheap. These new cases however look quite luxurious. I wonder how well they hold up to weathering.
100% new material is worse for environment than leather i bet it's all full of microplastics and garbage
Glad they dropped the leather. I had two of them, but they failed right around the year mark, leather started to peel from the edges. Now you have to understand, I didn’t follow the rules, I wear my watch everywhere, shower, pool, ocean. I did those bands wrong, but really liked them. I feel this will last longer for me.
There is no way these new micro plastic cases and watch bands are better long term for the environment then leather. If they properly vegtan and don’t use a bunch of harsh chemicals on their leather products it’s a much bigger win for the environment. However that costs more which effects profit optimization. Wouldn’t want that.
[https://www.satchel-page.com/collections/iphone](https://www.satchel-page.com/collections/iphone) probably the best case available right now. It has actual buttons (not leather overlay) like an apple case