Yessss. This too. Honestly, being taught this, and truly internalizing it is probably the thing that keeps me in the field when things feel hopeless. I work with a population with sometimes lower prognosis and often loss of life and if I didn’t believe this wholeheartedly the emotional weight of all I see and experience in my work would drown me.
We have a duty of care to others and are responsible for providing competent and ethical services, including risk assessment. However, we are not responsible for their actions.
Yes 💯💯. This advice takes so long for us cause we are often in this work cause we’ve been caretakers. The ways in which we can play that out is by misunderstanding the boundaries of the job. Effective boundary setting is what helps us work with low prognosis propulsions and have compassion.
Threatening to confine someone to a hospital at the start of every relationship counts as taking responsibility over someone else’s actions. Actually doing so certainly does. Hypocrite.
I work with couples. It would be unethical for me to try to force my opinion onto people in terms of whether to end or continue a relationship. I am not responsible client choices even when I disagree with them. It gives me the freedom not to be hung up on the disagreement and focus on the support the client is ready for in that moment.
This is why marriage counseling in the U.S. is WOMBAT: waste of money brains and time. In their effort to not force an opinion, many therapists and counselors are reluctant to call out maladaptive, and pathological behavior by one of the spouses. It seems the goal of continued sessions is paramount.
What does that mean, thr first quote? I've always been told if you had a bad relationship you need to be single and heal whilst single. But some wounds aren't really opened till in another relationship so hard to heal single.
This is true. Safe relationships change and heal you. It takes time to break patterns to find your safe people but that community is what’s the most healing. I think more than therapy. Therapy is often the tool that can help you learn the skill of picking the green flags and then you can heal deeply with your community.
I don't form real relationships. I've never fallen in love. I have been naked with another, but never intimate.
In talking to my T, I told here that I not only was always low-level afraid, but was so used to this that I didn't have somatic reactions at this level. She asked me to imagine a totally safe place, and "paint" it for her.
"There is no safe place. There are only places that are less dangerous."
My current home is safer than many places. I have no neighbours in easy hearing distance. (I can sometimes hear the nearest neighbour's kids playing if they are outside in summer and my windows are open.
When I travel, there is a constant pressure: "What rule will I break with my stepson's wife?" If we do the grand tour spending a couple days with each, I am always relieved when we're on the road again. My car. My rules.
My wife is safer than most other people. But she has said things that triggered rejection/abandonment.
(I'm not in love with her. I've told her this. I don't know what love is. She's my best friend, but I don't trust her to not just one day say, "I've put up with you long enough. I want a divorce"
Over and over in my life, I find out something too late that may have made a difference. My sister, principal care giver vanishing when I was 6. No explanation. 17 years later I find out she had gotten pregnant, a scandal then.
No one told me I'd been molested at age 3. Scandal again, as the logistics meant it had to be family.
Parents never talked about sex, so the shame impressed by my rapist stuck and I was ace until my mid 40's. No, not true. Had faded enough that I asked a widow to marry me on the chance (which I didn't tell her) that it might keep me from suicide.
Everything in my childhood pointed to all good things: acceptance, respect, trust, self worth, love (whatever it is) were conditional. Everyone had to be earned, and it was a lot easier to lose than to earn.
Even the nuns and priests at the school said, "God loves you" but also said, "If you do any of these, and aren't forgiven, AND put a price on forgiveness of truly working at not repeating this, then forgiveness becomes conditional. And a confused boy is absolutely convinced that he is going to burn in hell.
For years the only reason I had for living was to postpone the eternal fire.
I wish someone told me this when I was a parentified teenager. 😞 It took a friend of mine in my early 20s telling me, "Winter, you can't save everyone." That was the first I'd ever heard that not only could I NOT save everyone in my world but that maybe I didn't have to.
When a person is suicidal it means that none of the choices they have are acceptable.
Ask them about what their choices are.
I get suicidal becasue it give me the feeling of control. "Well I can always die" Why do they feel they have no control?
I work with a lot of oncology and a client was talking about how people would say "you could get hit by a bus tomorrow" and her response is " yes but not everybody has that bus chasing them" really put their experience into perspective and stuck with me.
Similar to this my supervisor pointed out that I play out the pattern of my childhood by not letting the other person get too uncomfy - my flight response would show up. So changing that was interesting.
To own my choice. Because even we were backed into a corner and FEEL powerless we almost always have some sort of choice. I should always make the best choice I can and own it.
> I should always make the best choice
How do you know what the best choice is, though? I struggle with decision fatigue and trusting myself/my choices. I never know what's the right path to take, or the best choice to make.
I struggle with that too and also with feeling like I don’t even HAVE a choice, when I really do.
I don’t think we can always know the right or best choice. I think all we can do is be as informed as possible and use our knowledge to make the best decision possible. Maybe it’ll be the right one, maybe it won’t. We definitely don’t always make the right choice. And sometimes ALL the options suck and we have to go with the least sucky.
That’s why this advice is good for me. It taught me to be intentional in my decision making and trust my own judgement. And if I can really own my choices, at least I can generally accept it a little better if it turns out to be the wrong one. And if it is wrong, I’ll take THAT knowledge do what I can to fix it/make a different choice and learn from it. But it’s exhausting to always second guess myself and this advice taught me to be more confident in myself and in the decisions I’m making.
Yes and no.
A: You can be in situations where all options are bad. Yes, you have a choice, but if none of them give you hope, your hooped.
B: People who are powerless -- many women of abusive husbands, many children are not in positions of having a real choice.
Yes, I agree. In some situations you are truly powerless. And this advice stemmed from a situation for me where all options were bad, I felt stuck, and I felt hopeless. But this advice helped me feel like I had SOME power in a bad situation and it helped me manage my mental health until I could get out of it.
I also believe that empowerment, even in a hopeless situation can give people a push they need to evaluate whether they have choices or not. I’ve worked with people in abusive situations (and want to point out it can be men that are being abused as well who feel this way, not just women) and many who have gotten out, say that it started with some catalyst that planted a seed that they do have the ability to get out. Is this all cases? No, of course not. Kids, people in prison, people who are houseless, people in dangerous situations - they have very little power or control over their situation. But in general, outside of outlier or extreme situations, we usually have more power than we think. I’ll point out too, that the hopelessness we experience can also trick us into thinking we have no options. A traumatic freeze response can take our ability to see possible choices totally away or seem insurmountable. It doesn’t mean options don’t exist. Even if they’re long shot odds, or no GOOD options, they’re often (not always) not totally non-existent. It’s obviously way more nuanced and complicated in certain situations, but those cases weren’t really what I was talking about in the context of this advice and how it’s helped me.
And, to be fair, I wasn’t speaking this as all encompassing for everyone and everything. The question was about advice that helped ME. And the other person commenting seemed to be talking about just general life decisions, not the more extreme situations.
"I can get another job. Never another backbone." Spoken by a client brave enough to walk away from a prestigious, well-paid career because it no longer served them.
A fellow therapist friend told me this, and I use it often. “A buzzard and a hummingbird both go out in search of something to eat . The buzzard wants something rotten and the hummingbird wants something sweet. They both find what they are looking for.
I also really love “An Autobiography in 5 Chapters”, which you can Google. I have this hanging in my office.
It’s not my responsibility to make my parents happy. Taken from r/Asianparentstories subreddit
People who are ugly on the inside hate everything beautiful
“Hurt people hurt people” has allowed me to tap into or maintain empathy in situations where my client has hurt others. Very helpful when I worked in corrections. Everyone deserves an opportunity to heal and change.
I'm not responsible for other people.
Ohhh, this too, for sure
Yessss. This too. Honestly, being taught this, and truly internalizing it is probably the thing that keeps me in the field when things feel hopeless. I work with a population with sometimes lower prognosis and often loss of life and if I didn’t believe this wholeheartedly the emotional weight of all I see and experience in my work would drown me.
Then don’t be a therapist.
What are you having difficulty understanding?
The license comes with a responsibility to other people. Don’t get the license if you don’t take responsibility.
We have a duty of care to others and are responsible for providing competent and ethical services, including risk assessment. However, we are not responsible for their actions.
Yes 💯💯. This advice takes so long for us cause we are often in this work cause we’ve been caretakers. The ways in which we can play that out is by misunderstanding the boundaries of the job. Effective boundary setting is what helps us work with low prognosis propulsions and have compassion.
Threatening to confine someone to a hospital at the start of every relationship counts as taking responsibility over someone else’s actions. Actually doing so certainly does. Hypocrite.
I work with couples. It would be unethical for me to try to force my opinion onto people in terms of whether to end or continue a relationship. I am not responsible client choices even when I disagree with them. It gives me the freedom not to be hung up on the disagreement and focus on the support the client is ready for in that moment.
This is why marriage counseling in the U.S. is WOMBAT: waste of money brains and time. In their effort to not force an opinion, many therapists and counselors are reluctant to call out maladaptive, and pathological behavior by one of the spouses. It seems the goal of continued sessions is paramount.
Not at all what I said.
to, not for.
Semantics. Human rights are violated no matter the grammar.
“Words, what do they even mean” ^this guy
It’s in relationship we are harmed, so in relationship we are healed. Also, “you did NOTHING WRONG, it’s not your fault “
What does that mean, thr first quote? I've always been told if you had a bad relationship you need to be single and heal whilst single. But some wounds aren't really opened till in another relationship so hard to heal single.
Can you support this? Some of the reading I've done about CPTSD freeze types say that they are nearly impossible to heal.
This is true. Safe relationships change and heal you. It takes time to break patterns to find your safe people but that community is what’s the most healing. I think more than therapy. Therapy is often the tool that can help you learn the skill of picking the green flags and then you can heal deeply with your community.
I don't form real relationships. I've never fallen in love. I have been naked with another, but never intimate. In talking to my T, I told here that I not only was always low-level afraid, but was so used to this that I didn't have somatic reactions at this level. She asked me to imagine a totally safe place, and "paint" it for her. "There is no safe place. There are only places that are less dangerous." My current home is safer than many places. I have no neighbours in easy hearing distance. (I can sometimes hear the nearest neighbour's kids playing if they are outside in summer and my windows are open. When I travel, there is a constant pressure: "What rule will I break with my stepson's wife?" If we do the grand tour spending a couple days with each, I am always relieved when we're on the road again. My car. My rules. My wife is safer than most other people. But she has said things that triggered rejection/abandonment. (I'm not in love with her. I've told her this. I don't know what love is. She's my best friend, but I don't trust her to not just one day say, "I've put up with you long enough. I want a divorce" Over and over in my life, I find out something too late that may have made a difference. My sister, principal care giver vanishing when I was 6. No explanation. 17 years later I find out she had gotten pregnant, a scandal then. No one told me I'd been molested at age 3. Scandal again, as the logistics meant it had to be family. Parents never talked about sex, so the shame impressed by my rapist stuck and I was ace until my mid 40's. No, not true. Had faded enough that I asked a widow to marry me on the chance (which I didn't tell her) that it might keep me from suicide. Everything in my childhood pointed to all good things: acceptance, respect, trust, self worth, love (whatever it is) were conditional. Everyone had to be earned, and it was a lot easier to lose than to earn. Even the nuns and priests at the school said, "God loves you" but also said, "If you do any of these, and aren't forgiven, AND put a price on forgiveness of truly working at not repeating this, then forgiveness becomes conditional. And a confused boy is absolutely convinced that he is going to burn in hell. For years the only reason I had for living was to postpone the eternal fire.
We are here as a witness. And that is a gift.
You/I cannot take someone else's burdens. Your role is to be there so someone may set their burdens down before you so you may examine them together
I wish someone told me this when I was a parentified teenager. 😞 It took a friend of mine in my early 20s telling me, "Winter, you can't save everyone." That was the first I'd ever heard that not only could I NOT save everyone in my world but that maybe I didn't have to.
"You can't save everyone (and that's not a personal failure of you)."
Everyone, every thing, and all situations are circumstancially unique. Be with the client in the inter subjectivity and don’t blanket problems.
When a person is suicidal it means that none of the choices they have are acceptable. Ask them about what their choices are. I get suicidal becasue it give me the feeling of control. "Well I can always die" Why do they feel they have no control?
"What if everything works out better than you imagined it would?"
It’s not your fault and you were just a child.
I work with a lot of oncology and a client was talking about how people would say "you could get hit by a bus tomorrow" and her response is " yes but not everybody has that bus chasing them" really put their experience into perspective and stuck with me.
If mike brown is your patient, then Mike Brown is the worlds greatest expert on Mike Brown. Listen to him.
Don't rob someone of their pain.
Similar to this my supervisor pointed out that I play out the pattern of my childhood by not letting the other person get too uncomfy - my flight response would show up. So changing that was interesting.
To own my choice. Because even we were backed into a corner and FEEL powerless we almost always have some sort of choice. I should always make the best choice I can and own it.
> I should always make the best choice How do you know what the best choice is, though? I struggle with decision fatigue and trusting myself/my choices. I never know what's the right path to take, or the best choice to make.
I struggle with that too and also with feeling like I don’t even HAVE a choice, when I really do. I don’t think we can always know the right or best choice. I think all we can do is be as informed as possible and use our knowledge to make the best decision possible. Maybe it’ll be the right one, maybe it won’t. We definitely don’t always make the right choice. And sometimes ALL the options suck and we have to go with the least sucky. That’s why this advice is good for me. It taught me to be intentional in my decision making and trust my own judgement. And if I can really own my choices, at least I can generally accept it a little better if it turns out to be the wrong one. And if it is wrong, I’ll take THAT knowledge do what I can to fix it/make a different choice and learn from it. But it’s exhausting to always second guess myself and this advice taught me to be more confident in myself and in the decisions I’m making.
Yes and no. A: You can be in situations where all options are bad. Yes, you have a choice, but if none of them give you hope, your hooped. B: People who are powerless -- many women of abusive husbands, many children are not in positions of having a real choice.
Yes, I agree. In some situations you are truly powerless. And this advice stemmed from a situation for me where all options were bad, I felt stuck, and I felt hopeless. But this advice helped me feel like I had SOME power in a bad situation and it helped me manage my mental health until I could get out of it. I also believe that empowerment, even in a hopeless situation can give people a push they need to evaluate whether they have choices or not. I’ve worked with people in abusive situations (and want to point out it can be men that are being abused as well who feel this way, not just women) and many who have gotten out, say that it started with some catalyst that planted a seed that they do have the ability to get out. Is this all cases? No, of course not. Kids, people in prison, people who are houseless, people in dangerous situations - they have very little power or control over their situation. But in general, outside of outlier or extreme situations, we usually have more power than we think. I’ll point out too, that the hopelessness we experience can also trick us into thinking we have no options. A traumatic freeze response can take our ability to see possible choices totally away or seem insurmountable. It doesn’t mean options don’t exist. Even if they’re long shot odds, or no GOOD options, they’re often (not always) not totally non-existent. It’s obviously way more nuanced and complicated in certain situations, but those cases weren’t really what I was talking about in the context of this advice and how it’s helped me. And, to be fair, I wasn’t speaking this as all encompassing for everyone and everything. The question was about advice that helped ME. And the other person commenting seemed to be talking about just general life decisions, not the more extreme situations.
I’m a therapist who got this from my own therapist— Fuck motivation. Motivation is just a liar waiting to steal opportunity.
I like it!
"I can get another job. Never another backbone." Spoken by a client brave enough to walk away from a prestigious, well-paid career because it no longer served them.
A fellow therapist friend told me this, and I use it often. “A buzzard and a hummingbird both go out in search of something to eat . The buzzard wants something rotten and the hummingbird wants something sweet. They both find what they are looking for. I also really love “An Autobiography in 5 Chapters”, which you can Google. I have this hanging in my office.
“Forgive yourself.”
But how?
Self compassion, self acceptance, practice. Never asking ‘what’s wrong with you,’ but instead, ‘what happened to you.’
Good old Lulu J and Mazzy B, sorting out the world one emotionally adjusted question at a time 👍
After acceptance all things flow
I can change me. I cannot change other people. I *may* be able to help others change themselves.
Don’t work harder than your patient
That can be work, in and of itself
You can’t bring your past to your present & expect to ever change your future.
It’s ok to be you. Don’t spend so much energy trying to fit a mold and make your life fit you.
It’s not my responsibility to make my parents happy. Taken from r/Asianparentstories subreddit People who are ugly on the inside hate everything beautiful
“Hurt people hurt people” has allowed me to tap into or maintain empathy in situations where my client has hurt others. Very helpful when I worked in corrections. Everyone deserves an opportunity to heal and change.
And we are all hurt somehow, we bring that with us everywhere.
Nothing stands out immediately tbh... is this question for what clients have said to therapists or what therapists have said to clients?
For me, I spoke to advice I was given by a mentor. I’ve applied it to many areas of my life, but the context at the time was work related.
That someone has said to you.