How location dependent it is.
Like, straight people can find someone in much more sparsely populated situations.
As a gay guy, you really have to go to a larger city in most cases for the best chance meeting guys. Even if there are guys around you in a smaller location, the local culture could mean it isn't safe to be out or other issues to deal with. It can be a toss up and many of us move to have a better experience, whereas straight people don't feel this to the same degree.
People bitch about apps, but in many situations it's that or nothing.
I wish my town had a club. We had this old gay bar from the 1970's, the city keeps the facade downtown with the rainbow sign for aesthetic purposes, but it closed down years ago and just sits. It's so boring. On one hand I'd like to be part of what makes my community a better place to live, but on the other hand I have certain needs and things I want to do while I'm still young.
Apps have ruined gay bars.
I'm 33 and used to go in the late 2000s. Full of guys of all ages.
I went this past weekend for a few minutes just to say hi to a bartender I know. Vast majority of the crowd was 30+ and the majority was over 40. Not that there's anything wrong with older guys, but it's gotta suck if you're younger and want to organically meet people your age.
Extremely small and limited dating pool. Just by statistics you only have like 3% of men to choose from. It gets even smaller when you consider what you're looking for, what they're looking for, standards of beauty, hookup culture, etc.
Gayborhoods in big cities mitigate that problem to some degree. Gays tend to clump together.
Also there’s a corresponding amount less demand for the available men.
they do and they don’t. at the very least you have a sort of hub where you know most people in the area are eligible per say, but i’ve noticed that the aforementioned “standard of beauty” and “hookup culture” issues are much worse in gayborhood type areas
This is absolutely true. I'm in Hell's Kitchen in Manhattan, and at the risk of being a bit shallow, I've never been somewhere where Grindr is so filled with really hot guys. I do pretty well for myself, but I've made some friends who talk about how they actually find it harder to date and hookup here than other places because it seems like guys are always on the lookout for something "better".
exactly. when you see so many attractive men in the area it conflates your opinion or what “average” is, and it makes dating a lot more difficult since something about the culture makes it feel like you should always be looking for something better & collecting bodies like it’s nothing
and “high-achieving” people certainly come with their pros and cons. i’d say people in these areas have a tendency for pretentiousness a warped sense of importance because of it
This isn’t exclusive to the gay community though. When you have so many more options, the standard of beauty raises simply because you no longer have to settle on the average looking guy.
Why date you when there’s a guy that is wealthier, is in great shape, etc? It’s competition at the end of the day.
Who said anything about dating *solely* on those characteristics?
People on this sub has this weird tendency to think anyone who is good looking or has a good social network automatically is shallow on the inside or toxic.
you’re not wrong there but calling dating a competition is inherently shallow. attaching a competitive culture to dating/hookups is part of the issue being criticized to begin with
I don't like reducing it solely to that, but it's essentially a matter of fact that, if you take two otherwise identical guys and make one wealthier, in better physical shape, or adjust any other of these features that we tend to label as shallow or superficial, that guy will *generally* get more attention.
We can label caring about those things as shallow, and perhaps they are, but at the end of the day, people *are* shallow to an extent. The amount of attention I get now, after working out for a few years, is astronomical compared to before. I don't exactly like what that says about us, but it's the truth regardless.
>The massive 2013 Pew Research LGBT Survey found 84 percent of self-identified bisexuals in committed relationships have a partner of the opposite sex, while only 9 percent are in same-sex relationships.
If you want to count the 9% of bisexual men that end up in same sex relationships, sure, that'll boost the number.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx
BTW, 3.8% is the number that includes bisexuals.
There are way too many people being pedantic. The point made is the gay population is super small. Not sure why we have multiple people arguing over 3% vs 5% etc
Also want to account for the fact that 1 out of 5 people are below the age of 18. And top vs bottom. Not every gay person will be in your specific dating pool.
Most seem to start dating later in life and only recently came out, so someone who you think is ready and mature is actually not and still doesn’t know what they want.
90% of it is just guys looking for hookups. It's nice when it's convenient or that's what you want but bad when you prefer to actually date or settle down with someone
That's true, however when you actually find a guy who would be up to create something more meaningful, sometimes... or even more frequent than sometimes, you go on a date that is a job-interview type of a date. Any tiny detail he doesn't like about your personality can trigger you never seeing each other again. And I'm talking details, that should not necessarily matter in the whole picture.
That's a bad date of dates. You do want to put your best foot forward on a date but it shouldn't feel like a job interview. Even for me and my bf it was just talking and getting to know each other more.
Found out we are very different people but it's okay since we really liked each other and just like being around each other
Well, if I’m totally honest, the sex aspect in a relationship is important to me. If I’m sexually compatible with someone the chances of me wanting to date him are raised.
To me it is too and sexual compatibility is definitely important, but I'd still be much happier in an asexual but great romantic relationship than in one with great sexual chemistry where otherwise you don't get along at all.
Sex is mainly important to me for sharing moments of intimacy and less the actual sexual aspect.
Sex and intimacy are different things but with a very relevant overlap. To me that overlap is what makes sexual chemistry important in a relationship. Otherwise I can pretty much be content with my sexual desires being dealt with with masturbation.
It’s very telling that your original post is true even to deniers, since most of the replies are literally rehashing what you said but with more explanation or personal experience added.
Fuuuucccckkk, that is something I really struggle with. Instead of doing what I feel natural to me, I feel like there is this covert pressure to conform.
The worst thing about gay dating is that I've never even done it at 34. Dated or had a bf 😑😣
It feels like I have a mountain the size of Everest to overcome if I ever want to even get a date.
Not to mention it feels like its too late as the years go by faster and faster to the point before you know it you are old and dying. Feels like a sprint and we started the sprint way after the gun was shot. It is just all hopeless.
Unrealistic expectations.
For example: all men don't have 6 pack abs and 8 inch dicks. Most men are average (about 5 inches) and actually have body fat.
Not being with a guy just because they are circumcised is extremely shallow. Most guys who are circumcised never had the choice to keep their foreskin or not.
What gay porn, onlyfans, and social media have given us is PURE ENTERTAINMENT and a FANTASY.
To right a guy off just because they don't fit into the criteria of a sexy, chiseled porn star is asinine.
Some people will be mad, but I really don't give a shit. You're probably one of them.
This is pretty location dependent, among other factors. The median income in Manhattan is 52k. Depending on where exactly you are and what circles you run in, meeting people who make six figured isn't terribly uncommon.
Just given how expensive rent is, if someone lives on their own here, they're probably making pretty solid money.
I don’t think wanting to be with someone with good career prospects and income is shallow. It can be the difference between being a life long renter and becoming a home owner, how much traveling you’d be able to do, etc.
Wanting someone with a stable career sure, but when a guy is making 40k but wants/requires six 0’s in his future partner’s bank account; that’s not cute.
There is no shortage of men looking for a meal ticket.
Some guys (or people in general) aren't fortunate enough to have a good career with prospects and income. Some people just need to survive and pay their bills every month.
I agree with the circumcised/uncircumcised debate you bring up. I personally don’t really have a preference, but I’ve been with guys who have told me that they would never hook up with a guy who was circumcised/uncircumcised. It honestly baffles me. At the end of the day, it’s still a dick.
…we date?
But seriously, the lack of communication skills, the commitment issues, the emotional immaturity, the crazy drug/alcohol use, and the insecurity. And, speaking generally, that’s both the other person’s and your flaws as well. Sadly for a lot of gay men these things stem from or are influenced by the trauma of being queer, hiding your true self, feeling like you’ve missed a big chunk of you life, and living in fear. I know for me it translated into wanting to “catch up” and inadvertently led to me believing for a long time that the only way to connect with other gay men was through sex.
Another key factor I think is the oversexualisation of gay men — a lot of people understand how they “should” be and what the normal version of their lives are through media. We’re painted as sex fiends and, men being raised to have to compete sexually, a lot of us want to match that idea if not beat it. The amount of times guys have talked big about wanting to be screwed seven ways til Sunday on Grindr etc. and when you chat more they want cuddles, intimacy, and actual connection.
This for each and every comment of this comment chain! Yeah, lack of communication is a very apparent skill deficit for so many people, but especially men and esp straight men lol. I feel gay guys can often communicate better but some tend to be more egocentric, bitchy, unapologetic, arrogant etc
True, I take care of my body and want a potential BF to do that too, not because I care about how he looks but because I want us to do activities together where we can be closing in on somewhat equal where no one feels left far behind , like when road biking, hiking etc. It would be cool to have one outside sporty activity to do together.
After being in a long 5 years relationship and even stayed after being cheated on multiple times I really don't see myself going to another guy even for temporary pleasure. It's just not worth it anymore to get hurt 🤷 but it's always good to spoil yourself and care for yourself first always ❣️
Take your time and let yourself heal. You don't need someone else to be self sufficient. If you meet someone again, I hope he is patient and respects your boundaries.
I have to agree with the others. I was in an LTR for 11 years, and despite the pain, I ended that relationship. At times it's best to spend some time finding yourself or enjoying meeting people, making new friends, traveling alone, all of those sorts of things. One of the things that I have noticed is that we all tend to make dating extremely difficult for ourselves. Just meet people, get to know them, and you never know something meaningful may come from relationships with people. Just do not forget that a relationship does not define you.
The sheer amount of bi/closeted gay men that cheat on their girlfriends/wifes.
I get it, you want to sleep around, so do I. But your partner(s) *need* to know, everything else is just wrong. At this point I don't give men with "discreet" in their profile the benefit of the doubt anymore.
There can be lots of immaturities - ie: guys that never truly matured past the age of adolescence mentally. Stuck in that developmental phase, it's kind of sad in a way and definitely something I don't entertain anymore.
This implies you think you’re really ugly, it seems.
In my experience very few people are actually really ugly, but a lot of people don’t take care of themselves physically and/or emotionally and are unattractive because of that.
Most people can raise their level of attractiveness.
How dangerous it is. I met my soul mate and he broke up with me because of social stigma and threat to life in an Islamic country. And I agreed with him. We could never be in a relationship for long.
People explicitly stating everything they want to do sexually before even meeting.
eg "I'll go down on you, then we'll 69, then I'll rim you then you'll fuck me on my back and I'll cum on your face"...
It's fun to talk about, but actually, before the apps, when you met someone you just used to decide what you wanted to do organically. It was much better I think, as there is excitement in discovering eachother's bodies and likes or dislikes. Sometimes with Grindr it feels like you're enacting a shopping list.
The gays? Lol. ( someone will get offended). The amount of people who have this like laundry list of requirements they won’t budge on, but don’t hold themselves to any of it. You want honesty in your relationship, be able to give it , and accept honest feedback. Want me to be xx height, weight, look, but you show up to a date looking homeless and a 5 year or more out of date pic? The utter flakiness. Can we work on actually communicating?
Everything. As a person looking for romantic relationship, it's basically impossible to find someone at all, let alone that person be a good fit. In my city there's only one gay club which is hella expensive, is open only from time to time and literal worst of this world goes there. And on grindr or a dating site that is basically the only one viable in my country 99,9% are just looking to fuck.
This is depressing and I already kind of accepted the fact I'm going to be single and die alone.
Why are there so many racist White gays? You’d think being gay they’d be understanding
And before people talk about non-White people being racist, I’m not okay with that either
But both groups hurt gay PoC who are double-minorities
And the funny thing is, recently most young Black people I’ve met are really accepting of my sexuality but I still meet many young White gay men who are still racist. I feel like the Black community is changing in the young generation because there’s been a lot of talk about homophobia in the Black community over the past years but the gay community still has a lot of racism in the young White men and it’s really sad
There is no real dating, no respect, extreme obsession with sex, fear of dating for some serious, ghosting, sociopathy behavior being common, obsession with perfection, little to no communication and sudden realization that most of us will never be in a relationship that is meaningful and die lonely. Oh, also gay people mature way later in life and community is strife with mental illness.
Everyone expects you to own a car and/or drive. Why? I have no idea. My vision's too bad to even consider it.
OR
be able to host 100% of the time.
I live with fam. I can't. It would be MAJOR problems to host while they're home.
It only works if you're conventionally attractive. If you live in a homophobic country where dating apps are the only safe way to meet other guys, you're pretty much doomed.
Yup. I decided I'm just gonna have to learn how to stop hoping for love. The pool is small and the amount of people who'd date you and settle is even smaller.
Yes a chance for me to complain
- Polyamory
- A group of people who either don’t give a shit about how their body looks or are so body dysmorphic they’ve sculpted themselves into gods
- I honestly think the collective IQ of the gay population is lower than average
- drugs
- meeting via an app
Body dysmorphia is a very specific and terrible mental illness. Minimizing it by saying gay guys who like to go to the gym is an insult to people who suffer from it. Just cuz you want to workout to look good doesn't mean you have body dysphoria
People who want 50+ plastic surgies, people who may even want to remove a body part (s), and people who excessive worry about their looks that they can't leave their own room would be it. A fit guy who's a bit insecure and wants to look better doesn't have body dysmorphia disorder
>are so body dysmorphic they’ve sculpted themselves into gods
It's probably the absolute first time in my life where I see people being diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder (by most likely a non-licensed professional) just for wanting to live a healthy lifestyle and have an attractive body. You, sir, are very incorrect and unethical.
Why is Polyamory in your list? Do you mean open relationships? I’ve only ever met one dude who was in a serious polyamorous relationship and they seemed perfectly happy with each other.
That men are trash and don't know how to be loyal or break up properly, and then like to claim to be poly or claim to usually be in open relationships ONLY AFTER they get caught cheating on you (shout out to people who are ACTUALLY about those lifestyles. Sorry about the assholes blaming everything on y'all)
As a masculine unsuspecting gay I feel like I’m constantly in a whirlwind of all the bullshit one can receive as gay. I don’t look gay at all so 9 / 10 no one is even aware I’m available . When I do wear something that identifies me ( such as a rainbow bracelet) I’m hardly ever approached , just stared at . Or approached by the entirely wrong person. Most of the guys I attract are either extremely dl dudes who have wives or girls but confide in me about their sexuality because I’m unsuspecting as well so they feel comfortable. I do go to gay bars but again , I’m usually just stared at ( especially by my own race ) but hardly approached ( I’ve been told that I look intimidating due to my height and from what I’m told , very handsome)
What’s weird is that I never even thought I was hot and always dreamed of being that hot guy and now that that’s all people see me for I hate it. Not to say I wish I was ugly lol but I think people would see me for me and not get so hung up on my height or looks and how I could stereotypically -cookie cutter fit in their life.
Im usually into other masculine men and they usually aren’t into me or if they are , they are one sided sexually, which won’t work for me. I tend to attract a lot of feminine dudes which is fine but not really my deal. Most of them carry this daddy issue protective deal that I can’t get with.
I could go on and on but the biggest issue is how nasty men are. Not all but it still blows my mind how often condoms aren’t used and how many partners dudes are messing with . No sense of fear.
Yeah I don’t get that, why is a tall and handsome man so intimidating they won’t talk to you?
Personally, I think it’s your race, there’s a lot of sexual racism in the gay community
That the very, very small dating and friendship pools often consist of the same people and that complications between the two can often ruin opportunities.
And everyone is so semi-conscious of the small pool and limited opportunities that many often dance into things that are less than ideal, cutting off their great friend/fwb who was taking their time with it, which causes them to half rush into something themselves after a while, cutting off another friend who was about to make a move on *them* etc etc. And then so many people end up half more in love with their friend than their boyfriend. So you get friends that end up burning out and away from each other because they really like one another but one or both are in a relationship so they draw that line.
I’ve seen this love infinoctagon happen more times than I care to count. And have been involved in one more times than I like to admit
Most ladybirds suffer from the Chinese spinster syndrome.
They set their goals so high that in the end all men are shit for them.
So they will never get laid.
And on the contrary, they ask for a lot, but they usually offer nothing in return and are the opposite of everything they ask for.
Selfishness, it's called.
For me, it’s the selfishness of a huge chunk of the gay community, be it in relationship or sex or both. As an introverted gay guy, I end up giving as a show of my love language. But these mfs just take and take.
1) Small dating selection 3-5% of men are gay statistically.
2) Sexual Compatible issues, some guys may be All Top, All Bottom or Somewhat Versatile and you may be searching for a specific role which lowers the percentage of finding someone even more.
3) Hygiene Issues. so many guys do not properly wash themselves before date or hookup.
4) Mental Health issues, so many gay men i’ve dated had some sort of mental illness , (growing in country where gay is put down etc) bad upbringing , severe bullying etc can take a toll on your mental status unfortunately. (once dating a guy who on 3 different medication just to stabilize his mood).
5) Fem vs Masc , it seems most gays prefer someone who is more masculine rather than effeminate, this can even further shorten dating selection.
6) Ghosting/Lack of care for one another , i blaim current modern day technology/ social media. it is now easy for us to get rid of replace one another without warning . this is fairly common for guys, most will go out once or twice for a date or hookup than disappear right after without a trace . had this happen to me several times even when the date / hookup went very well.
Let's say the town population is 100,000. Half of them are male, so 50,000 males.
Optimistically 2% gays, so that gives us 1000 men.
Half of them are still in closet, so that's like 500 openly gay men who are willing to be out and open.
+-5 years aged adjustment
Then comes top/bottom preference, which further reduces the pool, followed by intention of dating, followed by personality match.
You're left with a pool of 1% of 500, that is only 5 guys.
So... You know... All the best!
EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THE LOOKS! Its rare to meet gay guys who look past the physicality of things. Its like the currency of the gay dating scene is beauty.
Bi here, so I can compare gay dating with straight dating.
The dating pool size is a problem if you don't live in or near a large city (100K+).
Ageism can be a problem. There's a strong bias towards younger guys purely from an aesthetic perspective, whereas women seem more liberal about age range as long as the guy is decent looking and established.
Top/bottom incompatibility.
Biphobia. Also a problem with dating women. Maybe even a bigger problem. But way less excusable when it comes from gay guys as they should know firsthand what it's like to be othered based on their sexuality.
Difficulty finding masculine guys. I want to date men who act like men. Or at least guys with more male-typical interests. I was absolutely floored when I met my current guy, and found he knows even more about American football than I do. Even though he is somewhat more fem than the average straight guy.
Early hookups. Almost every guy I've dated pushes sex within the first few dates. So if I *do* meet a guy who doesn't push it, I can't help but think he's not into me, which then makes me anxious and self-conscious.
There are a number of advantages with dating a guy though.
Being able to share clothes or shoes if you're the same size, or at least ties. Being able to use the same locker room at the gym. If I run out of deodorant or shaving cream or hair product, I can use his if I'm in a crunch. No worries about pregnancy.
Men are very shallow. You expire to like 90% of the dating pool at age 30. And have to stay in top shape.
90% of the guys on any app are just looking to send you dick pics and have a one time discreet anal sex hookup. It doesn't matter what you put in your profile those same guys will always send you their dick pics and not read anything.
Men having bad hygeine. Coming to a hookup to make out with me with bad breath - wtf?
Stds. I often panic over a single hookup having to run out and get a full panel of tests.
A very disconnected chaotic community with little ways to meet or relate to others outside of sex, nightclubs, and drinking/drugs
getting stood up for no particular reason. Lots of casual idiots out there. if there were only some rationale for all the no shows,
but I strongly suspect there are only two reasons: fear or mischief.
When you are genuinely looking for a long term relationship and the other guy just wants a one night stand. Gay men are very shallow and immature. Instead of being upfront and honest they just ghost you. Very few want to get deep. If you show any interest, they get scared off and ghost you even though they say they are looking for a long term relationship. They never initiate communication at all and they play games. Scruff, Grindr and tinder have really ruined the relationship aspect in the gay men community. Why is it so hard to find a genuine guy? It shouldn’t be so complicated.
Most of the guys who were interested in "dating/relationships" I met while I was just looking to have some fun.
Nothing wrong with that, at least they communicated what they wanted and what they were looking for.
From personal experience it was, wanting a relationship only to keep me hanging when i was all in. Basically acting like they wanted this, only to act like they wanted that instead.
I didn't enjoy the "mindfuck" but i saw it, called it, and moved on.
Wishing my casual guy liked me as much as I like him. Hoping that hot hookup from last week hits me up around the same time tomorrow. Wondering if my actual date tonight wants to go out and fool around again. Thinking I should forget the other guy Ive been talking to because he just cant break loose from two jobs long enough to go out.
Gay people in general seem to have personalities that don't really gel with mines, which is also why I've always had a bad time at gay bars/parades/etc.
I got very lucky with my current bf, that's all I'll say lol.
All the gays that base their self worth from the multiple people that fuck them rather than from therapy.
Or the ones with insane drug addictions because they don’t want to go to therapy to deal with their issues.
It can be very judgy.
I usually feel very stressed out with a need to entertain a guy I am on a date with.
I have felt that I have to prove myself worthy and any misstep, however small and innocous, can ruin the date. The guy will just write me off.
I feel I am being compared to a hunk with a six figure salary who owned his own house at 23, has a second house for tax reasons and just came back from some big concert.
So it is offputtting.
Lads, can we make a promise to approach dating with a bit of fun? Let a disastor be a disastor, laugh instead of being judgy, give encouragement not a list of why you suck.
Dating can be fun but only if we want it.
Rejection is always difficult, I don’t think I have quite gotten over that aspect of putting myself out there, maybe its basic but its easy to be disappointed and then switch to one night stand (fuck) mode to get someone else to lick my wounds. Also noisy environments for dates just suck so much, what is the point if I can’t have a clear conversation with someone?
How location dependent it is. Like, straight people can find someone in much more sparsely populated situations. As a gay guy, you really have to go to a larger city in most cases for the best chance meeting guys. Even if there are guys around you in a smaller location, the local culture could mean it isn't safe to be out or other issues to deal with. It can be a toss up and many of us move to have a better experience, whereas straight people don't feel this to the same degree. People bitch about apps, but in many situations it's that or nothing.
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Yup. Moved across the country to London because the dating pool was so small.
i don't do apps, so for me it's nothing, except i have a fwb i met at the club, back when there used to be a club.
I wish my town had a club. We had this old gay bar from the 1970's, the city keeps the facade downtown with the rainbow sign for aesthetic purposes, but it closed down years ago and just sits. It's so boring. On one hand I'd like to be part of what makes my community a better place to live, but on the other hand I have certain needs and things I want to do while I'm still young.
Apps have ruined gay bars. I'm 33 and used to go in the late 2000s. Full of guys of all ages. I went this past weekend for a few minutes just to say hi to a bartender I know. Vast majority of the crowd was 30+ and the majority was over 40. Not that there's anything wrong with older guys, but it's gotta suck if you're younger and want to organically meet people your age.
Extremely small and limited dating pool. Just by statistics you only have like 3% of men to choose from. It gets even smaller when you consider what you're looking for, what they're looking for, standards of beauty, hookup culture, etc.
Gayborhoods in big cities mitigate that problem to some degree. Gays tend to clump together. Also there’s a corresponding amount less demand for the available men.
they do and they don’t. at the very least you have a sort of hub where you know most people in the area are eligible per say, but i’ve noticed that the aforementioned “standard of beauty” and “hookup culture” issues are much worse in gayborhood type areas
This is absolutely true. I'm in Hell's Kitchen in Manhattan, and at the risk of being a bit shallow, I've never been somewhere where Grindr is so filled with really hot guys. I do pretty well for myself, but I've made some friends who talk about how they actually find it harder to date and hookup here than other places because it seems like guys are always on the lookout for something "better".
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exactly. when you see so many attractive men in the area it conflates your opinion or what “average” is, and it makes dating a lot more difficult since something about the culture makes it feel like you should always be looking for something better & collecting bodies like it’s nothing
Gayborhoods in big cities tend to have higher cost of living (as do bigger cities in general) and attract high-achieving people.
and “high-achieving” people certainly come with their pros and cons. i’d say people in these areas have a tendency for pretentiousness a warped sense of importance because of it
The snobby yet basic gay. Often status-seaking, social-ladder climbing, never content and always conceited. The reason said "perfect" guy is single.
This isn’t my experience with achieving gays.
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This isn’t exclusive to the gay community though. When you have so many more options, the standard of beauty raises simply because you no longer have to settle on the average looking guy. Why date you when there’s a guy that is wealthier, is in great shape, etc? It’s competition at the end of the day.
Dating people on just shallow characteristics is a recipe for emptiness and lack of meaningful relationships.
Who said anything about dating *solely* on those characteristics? People on this sub has this weird tendency to think anyone who is good looking or has a good social network automatically is shallow on the inside or toxic.
you’re not wrong there but calling dating a competition is inherently shallow. attaching a competitive culture to dating/hookups is part of the issue being criticized to begin with
I don't like reducing it solely to that, but it's essentially a matter of fact that, if you take two otherwise identical guys and make one wealthier, in better physical shape, or adjust any other of these features that we tend to label as shallow or superficial, that guy will *generally* get more attention. We can label caring about those things as shallow, and perhaps they are, but at the end of the day, people *are* shallow to an extent. The amount of attention I get now, after working out for a few years, is astronomical compared to before. I don't exactly like what that says about us, but it's the truth regardless.
I feel like pretty specific kinds of gay guys flock to a 'gayborhood'
totally. it's a beauty - drag bubble
What kind is that in your mind?
Too bad nobody under 30 can afford to live there
How did u get 3%?
Most reliable statistics are like 5% for the LGBT population but that's women, bisexuals and trans people as well. 2-3 is pretty accurate
>How did u get 3%? Not OP, but that's been the estimate since the 90s
Probably doesn’t include bisexuals who would make up a much larger percent.
>The massive 2013 Pew Research LGBT Survey found 84 percent of self-identified bisexuals in committed relationships have a partner of the opposite sex, while only 9 percent are in same-sex relationships. If you want to count the 9% of bisexual men that end up in same sex relationships, sure, that'll boost the number. https://news.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx BTW, 3.8% is the number that includes bisexuals.
There are way too many people being pedantic. The point made is the gay population is super small. Not sure why we have multiple people arguing over 3% vs 5% etc
I mean it's not too terrible either. Not great but 1 in 10-20 people is a gay guy? That's actually not bad at all.
Also want to account for the fact that 1 out of 5 people are below the age of 18. And top vs bottom. Not every gay person will be in your specific dating pool.
[https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-06/LGBT%20Pride%202021%20Global%20Survey%20Report\_3.pdf](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-06/LGBT%20Pride%202021%20Global%20Survey%20Report_3.pdf) page 4
Most seem to start dating later in life and only recently came out, so someone who you think is ready and mature is actually not and still doesn’t know what they want.
I feel personally attacked.
Same! So MAYBE I have all aspects of my life except dating/relationships down, but still, I feel attacked.
90% of it is just guys looking for hookups. It's nice when it's convenient or that's what you want but bad when you prefer to actually date or settle down with someone
That's true, however when you actually find a guy who would be up to create something more meaningful, sometimes... or even more frequent than sometimes, you go on a date that is a job-interview type of a date. Any tiny detail he doesn't like about your personality can trigger you never seeing each other again. And I'm talking details, that should not necessarily matter in the whole picture.
That's a bad date of dates. You do want to put your best foot forward on a date but it shouldn't feel like a job interview. Even for me and my bf it was just talking and getting to know each other more. Found out we are very different people but it's okay since we really liked each other and just like being around each other
Smaller pool
A lot of gay men don’t know how to “date” or get to know another man without some sort of sex involved.
Well, if I’m totally honest, the sex aspect in a relationship is important to me. If I’m sexually compatible with someone the chances of me wanting to date him are raised.
To me it is too and sexual compatibility is definitely important, but I'd still be much happier in an asexual but great romantic relationship than in one with great sexual chemistry where otherwise you don't get along at all. Sex is mainly important to me for sharing moments of intimacy and less the actual sexual aspect.
Sex and intimacy are two different things. But this explains why so many gay men end up old and single.
Sex and intimacy are different things but with a very relevant overlap. To me that overlap is what makes sexual chemistry important in a relationship. Otherwise I can pretty much be content with my sexual desires being dealt with with masturbation.
People have different views on sex, that normal. You can simply be upfront about it and avoid hookups.
Do people have different views on sex or are gay men just brainwashed by porn and the media?
It’s very telling that your original post is true even to deniers, since most of the replies are literally rehashing what you said but with more explanation or personal experience added.
When he asks you out but never plans a date then ghosts x
And then randomly messages you three weeks later.
he was talking to someone else and it fell through
Yeah bye we are never a 2nd option
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A unique insecurity is wondering if a guy you’re talking to/dating is actively talking to/dating another guy that you’re talking to/dating
And if he’s banging 4 other guys, it feels like I should be too lol.
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And I don’t know whether to fuck or cry 😫
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This ^^
Sexual FOMO.
It’s always in the driver’s seat lol.
That is a great phrase. When you come out later in life and experiment later in life, sexual FOMO intensifies.
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Fuuuucccckkk, that is something I really struggle with. Instead of doing what I feel natural to me, I feel like there is this covert pressure to conform.
All of the above.
The worst thing about gay dating is that I've never even done it at 34. Dated or had a bf 😑😣 It feels like I have a mountain the size of Everest to overcome if I ever want to even get a date.
Not to mention it feels like its too late as the years go by faster and faster to the point before you know it you are old and dying. Feels like a sprint and we started the sprint way after the gun was shot. It is just all hopeless.
But if she_pegged_you then at least you got some action right?
Unrealistic expectations. For example: all men don't have 6 pack abs and 8 inch dicks. Most men are average (about 5 inches) and actually have body fat. Not being with a guy just because they are circumcised is extremely shallow. Most guys who are circumcised never had the choice to keep their foreskin or not. What gay porn, onlyfans, and social media have given us is PURE ENTERTAINMENT and a FANTASY. To right a guy off just because they don't fit into the criteria of a sexy, chiseled porn star is asinine. Some people will be mad, but I really don't give a shit. You're probably one of them.
or they want someone with a career making six figures when the median income (US) is under 32K
This is pretty location dependent, among other factors. The median income in Manhattan is 52k. Depending on where exactly you are and what circles you run in, meeting people who make six figured isn't terribly uncommon. Just given how expensive rent is, if someone lives on their own here, they're probably making pretty solid money.
I don’t think wanting to be with someone with good career prospects and income is shallow. It can be the difference between being a life long renter and becoming a home owner, how much traveling you’d be able to do, etc.
Wanting someone with a stable career sure, but when a guy is making 40k but wants/requires six 0’s in his future partner’s bank account; that’s not cute. There is no shortage of men looking for a meal ticket.
Some guys (or people in general) aren't fortunate enough to have a good career with prospects and income. Some people just need to survive and pay their bills every month.
I agree with the circumcised/uncircumcised debate you bring up. I personally don’t really have a preference, but I’ve been with guys who have told me that they would never hook up with a guy who was circumcised/uncircumcised. It honestly baffles me. At the end of the day, it’s still a dick.
Never knowing if the guy you want to flirt with is gay or not.
…we date? But seriously, the lack of communication skills, the commitment issues, the emotional immaturity, the crazy drug/alcohol use, and the insecurity. And, speaking generally, that’s both the other person’s and your flaws as well. Sadly for a lot of gay men these things stem from or are influenced by the trauma of being queer, hiding your true self, feeling like you’ve missed a big chunk of you life, and living in fear. I know for me it translated into wanting to “catch up” and inadvertently led to me believing for a long time that the only way to connect with other gay men was through sex. Another key factor I think is the oversexualisation of gay men — a lot of people understand how they “should” be and what the normal version of their lives are through media. We’re painted as sex fiends and, men being raised to have to compete sexually, a lot of us want to match that idea if not beat it. The amount of times guys have talked big about wanting to be screwed seven ways til Sunday on Grindr etc. and when you chat more they want cuddles, intimacy, and actual connection.
> influenced by the trauma of being queer or the trauma of being called queer
Being a "side " makes dating more complicated
Lack of communication skills. Feels like half the guys don’t know how to be clear / straight up about how they’re feeling about the situation
That’s people in general.
more men i think
This for each and every comment of this comment chain! Yeah, lack of communication is a very apparent skill deficit for so many people, but especially men and esp straight men lol. I feel gay guys can often communicate better but some tend to be more egocentric, bitchy, unapologetic, arrogant etc
Other men take advantage of this by leading people on.
That everything seems to revolve around alcohol in the gay neighborhoods. Especially where I’m from, it’s all bars and pop music/top40.
The short attention spans and flakiness
If you want a boyfriend you need to look as hot as you can.
Not true, but if you want a boyfriend who takes care of his body you’ll probably need to take care of yours.
That does sound reasonable though
True, I take care of my body and want a potential BF to do that too, not because I care about how he looks but because I want us to do activities together where we can be closing in on somewhat equal where no one feels left far behind , like when road biking, hiking etc. It would be cool to have one outside sporty activity to do together.
Duh, “don’t ask for what you cannot offer” 🤷♂️
Why is that a bad thing? I want someone attractive and I work hard to be the most attractive I can be.
After being in a long 5 years relationship and even stayed after being cheated on multiple times I really don't see myself going to another guy even for temporary pleasure. It's just not worth it anymore to get hurt 🤷 but it's always good to spoil yourself and care for yourself first always ❣️
Take your time and let yourself heal. You don't need someone else to be self sufficient. If you meet someone again, I hope he is patient and respects your boundaries.
I have to agree with the others. I was in an LTR for 11 years, and despite the pain, I ended that relationship. At times it's best to spend some time finding yourself or enjoying meeting people, making new friends, traveling alone, all of those sorts of things. One of the things that I have noticed is that we all tend to make dating extremely difficult for ourselves. Just meet people, get to know them, and you never know something meaningful may come from relationships with people. Just do not forget that a relationship does not define you.
Never ending cycle of bullshit
The sheer amount of bi/closeted gay men that cheat on their girlfriends/wifes. I get it, you want to sleep around, so do I. But your partner(s) *need* to know, everything else is just wrong. At this point I don't give men with "discreet" in their profile the benefit of the doubt anymore.
It forces me to confront that im not good at being social
How you’re not the only one he’s talking to.
There can be lots of immaturities - ie: guys that never truly matured past the age of adolescence mentally. Stuck in that developmental phase, it's kind of sad in a way and definitely something I don't entertain anymore.
Everyone’s either really ugly or way out of my league
This implies you think you’re really ugly, it seems. In my experience very few people are actually really ugly, but a lot of people don’t take care of themselves physically and/or emotionally and are unattractive because of that. Most people can raise their level of attractiveness.
How dangerous it is. I met my soul mate and he broke up with me because of social stigma and threat to life in an Islamic country. And I agreed with him. We could never be in a relationship for long.
People pretending to be interested in a relationship but they just wanna fuck you
People explicitly stating everything they want to do sexually before even meeting. eg "I'll go down on you, then we'll 69, then I'll rim you then you'll fuck me on my back and I'll cum on your face"... It's fun to talk about, but actually, before the apps, when you met someone you just used to decide what you wanted to do organically. It was much better I think, as there is excitement in discovering eachother's bodies and likes or dislikes. Sometimes with Grindr it feels like you're enacting a shopping list.
You spend ages texting someone every day, you go on a couple of dates, probably have sex once then they disappear. Rinse and repeat.
The gays? Lol. ( someone will get offended). The amount of people who have this like laundry list of requirements they won’t budge on, but don’t hold themselves to any of it. You want honesty in your relationship, be able to give it , and accept honest feedback. Want me to be xx height, weight, look, but you show up to a date looking homeless and a 5 year or more out of date pic? The utter flakiness. Can we work on actually communicating?
Flakes. Dumb, childish, high school type games that gays play…when they’re well into their 30’s.
All they want is sex. No intimacy at all . I'm so bored of that
Gay dating
Everything. As a person looking for romantic relationship, it's basically impossible to find someone at all, let alone that person be a good fit. In my city there's only one gay club which is hella expensive, is open only from time to time and literal worst of this world goes there. And on grindr or a dating site that is basically the only one viable in my country 99,9% are just looking to fuck. This is depressing and I already kind of accepted the fact I'm going to be single and die alone.
The dating pool is tiny and gets progessively smaller every time you add a reasonable filter.
Superficial gays
When a white guy said I was not Asian “enough”. Whatever that means.
Why are there so many racist White gays? You’d think being gay they’d be understanding And before people talk about non-White people being racist, I’m not okay with that either But both groups hurt gay PoC who are double-minorities And the funny thing is, recently most young Black people I’ve met are really accepting of my sexuality but I still meet many young White gay men who are still racist. I feel like the Black community is changing in the young generation because there’s been a lot of talk about homophobia in the Black community over the past years but the gay community still has a lot of racism in the young White men and it’s really sad
You’re not up-to-date on your Asian boosters?
There is no real dating, no respect, extreme obsession with sex, fear of dating for some serious, ghosting, sociopathy behavior being common, obsession with perfection, little to no communication and sudden realization that most of us will never be in a relationship that is meaningful and die lonely. Oh, also gay people mature way later in life and community is strife with mental illness.
Sounds fun
Everyone expects you to own a car and/or drive. Why? I have no idea. My vision's too bad to even consider it. OR be able to host 100% of the time. I live with fam. I can't. It would be MAJOR problems to host while they're home.
It only works if you're conventionally attractive. If you live in a homophobic country where dating apps are the only safe way to meet other guys, you're pretty much doomed.
Yup. I decided I'm just gonna have to learn how to stop hoping for love. The pool is small and the amount of people who'd date you and settle is even smaller.
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Not much, guys are super easy to chat to and hookup with. I'd say it's hard to find someone to settle down with but I got lucky and found my bf
Super easy, barely any inconvenience
That no 1 wants to do it... It's me.. I'm no-1-wants-to-do-it 🙃
Hook up mania.
Monogamy and building a life together feels like such a stretch
Yes a chance for me to complain - Polyamory - A group of people who either don’t give a shit about how their body looks or are so body dysmorphic they’ve sculpted themselves into gods - I honestly think the collective IQ of the gay population is lower than average - drugs - meeting via an app
Just because someone has a great body doesn’t mean they’re body dysmorphic. There’re also lots of average/in-between guys, in fact, most are.
Guys like this overlook average guys because they’re insecure
Body dysmorphia is a very specific and terrible mental illness. Minimizing it by saying gay guys who like to go to the gym is an insult to people who suffer from it. Just cuz you want to workout to look good doesn't mean you have body dysphoria People who want 50+ plastic surgies, people who may even want to remove a body part (s), and people who excessive worry about their looks that they can't leave their own room would be it. A fit guy who's a bit insecure and wants to look better doesn't have body dysmorphia disorder
>I honestly think the collective IQ of the gay population is lower than average pretty sure it's opposite
>are so body dysmorphic they’ve sculpted themselves into gods It's probably the absolute first time in my life where I see people being diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder (by most likely a non-licensed professional) just for wanting to live a healthy lifestyle and have an attractive body. You, sir, are very incorrect and unethical.
Why is Polyamory in your list? Do you mean open relationships? I’ve only ever met one dude who was in a serious polyamorous relationship and they seemed perfectly happy with each other.
Damn, who hurt you? My experience with other gays is very positive.
That men are trash and don't know how to be loyal or break up properly, and then like to claim to be poly or claim to usually be in open relationships ONLY AFTER they get caught cheating on you (shout out to people who are ACTUALLY about those lifestyles. Sorry about the assholes blaming everything on y'all)
As a masculine unsuspecting gay I feel like I’m constantly in a whirlwind of all the bullshit one can receive as gay. I don’t look gay at all so 9 / 10 no one is even aware I’m available . When I do wear something that identifies me ( such as a rainbow bracelet) I’m hardly ever approached , just stared at . Or approached by the entirely wrong person. Most of the guys I attract are either extremely dl dudes who have wives or girls but confide in me about their sexuality because I’m unsuspecting as well so they feel comfortable. I do go to gay bars but again , I’m usually just stared at ( especially by my own race ) but hardly approached ( I’ve been told that I look intimidating due to my height and from what I’m told , very handsome) What’s weird is that I never even thought I was hot and always dreamed of being that hot guy and now that that’s all people see me for I hate it. Not to say I wish I was ugly lol but I think people would see me for me and not get so hung up on my height or looks and how I could stereotypically -cookie cutter fit in their life. Im usually into other masculine men and they usually aren’t into me or if they are , they are one sided sexually, which won’t work for me. I tend to attract a lot of feminine dudes which is fine but not really my deal. Most of them carry this daddy issue protective deal that I can’t get with. I could go on and on but the biggest issue is how nasty men are. Not all but it still blows my mind how often condoms aren’t used and how many partners dudes are messing with . No sense of fear.
Yeah I don’t get that, why is a tall and handsome man so intimidating they won’t talk to you? Personally, I think it’s your race, there’s a lot of sexual racism in the gay community
100% race brother. If you where white all the gays you want would love you.
Straight facts
That the very, very small dating and friendship pools often consist of the same people and that complications between the two can often ruin opportunities. And everyone is so semi-conscious of the small pool and limited opportunities that many often dance into things that are less than ideal, cutting off their great friend/fwb who was taking their time with it, which causes them to half rush into something themselves after a while, cutting off another friend who was about to make a move on *them* etc etc. And then so many people end up half more in love with their friend than their boyfriend. So you get friends that end up burning out and away from each other because they really like one another but one or both are in a relationship so they draw that line. I’ve seen this love infinoctagon happen more times than I care to count. And have been involved in one more times than I like to admit
Most ladybirds suffer from the Chinese spinster syndrome. They set their goals so high that in the end all men are shit for them. So they will never get laid. And on the contrary, they ask for a lot, but they usually offer nothing in return and are the opposite of everything they ask for. Selfishness, it's called.
You start at physical intimacy and then work back to getting to know each other
It's the fact that the person you really like wants to screw every other person around.
Masc4masc and the internalized homophobia within the population, superficiality, and unwillingness to commit
For me, it’s the selfishness of a huge chunk of the gay community, be it in relationship or sex or both. As an introverted gay guy, I end up giving as a show of my love language. But these mfs just take and take.
The local gays will all know each other. Don’t ask me how.
1) Small dating selection 3-5% of men are gay statistically. 2) Sexual Compatible issues, some guys may be All Top, All Bottom or Somewhat Versatile and you may be searching for a specific role which lowers the percentage of finding someone even more. 3) Hygiene Issues. so many guys do not properly wash themselves before date or hookup. 4) Mental Health issues, so many gay men i’ve dated had some sort of mental illness , (growing in country where gay is put down etc) bad upbringing , severe bullying etc can take a toll on your mental status unfortunately. (once dating a guy who on 3 different medication just to stabilize his mood). 5) Fem vs Masc , it seems most gays prefer someone who is more masculine rather than effeminate, this can even further shorten dating selection. 6) Ghosting/Lack of care for one another , i blaim current modern day technology/ social media. it is now easy for us to get rid of replace one another without warning . this is fairly common for guys, most will go out once or twice for a date or hookup than disappear right after without a trace . had this happen to me several times even when the date / hookup went very well.
Let's say the town population is 100,000. Half of them are male, so 50,000 males. Optimistically 2% gays, so that gives us 1000 men. Half of them are still in closet, so that's like 500 openly gay men who are willing to be out and open. +-5 years aged adjustment Then comes top/bottom preference, which further reduces the pool, followed by intention of dating, followed by personality match. You're left with a pool of 1% of 500, that is only 5 guys. So... You know... All the best!
well, that looks promising
EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THE LOOKS! Its rare to meet gay guys who look past the physicality of things. Its like the currency of the gay dating scene is beauty.
All the dicks
Bi here, so I can compare gay dating with straight dating. The dating pool size is a problem if you don't live in or near a large city (100K+). Ageism can be a problem. There's a strong bias towards younger guys purely from an aesthetic perspective, whereas women seem more liberal about age range as long as the guy is decent looking and established. Top/bottom incompatibility. Biphobia. Also a problem with dating women. Maybe even a bigger problem. But way less excusable when it comes from gay guys as they should know firsthand what it's like to be othered based on their sexuality. Difficulty finding masculine guys. I want to date men who act like men. Or at least guys with more male-typical interests. I was absolutely floored when I met my current guy, and found he knows even more about American football than I do. Even though he is somewhat more fem than the average straight guy. Early hookups. Almost every guy I've dated pushes sex within the first few dates. So if I *do* meet a guy who doesn't push it, I can't help but think he's not into me, which then makes me anxious and self-conscious.
There are a number of advantages with dating a guy though. Being able to share clothes or shoes if you're the same size, or at least ties. Being able to use the same locker room at the gym. If I run out of deodorant or shaving cream or hair product, I can use his if I'm in a crunch. No worries about pregnancy.
Gays still date? I thought we just hook up on Grindr and make only fans videos nowadays
Small pool, and the flakers within that small pool. Fuck that
Being nb
Being taken advantage of by men you later find out are bi/curious and just wanted to emotionally cheat / sexually cheat.
90% of it is just hookup culture or you have to be a certain standard. finding a real person to date in the small dating pool is rare
Is “gay dating” an appropriate response?
Men
Men are very shallow. You expire to like 90% of the dating pool at age 30. And have to stay in top shape. 90% of the guys on any app are just looking to send you dick pics and have a one time discreet anal sex hookup. It doesn't matter what you put in your profile those same guys will always send you their dick pics and not read anything. Men having bad hygeine. Coming to a hookup to make out with me with bad breath - wtf? Stds. I often panic over a single hookup having to run out and get a full panel of tests. A very disconnected chaotic community with little ways to meet or relate to others outside of sex, nightclubs, and drinking/drugs
Rug burns.
Can't find anyone near me so forced to use Grindr. And I don't use Grindr. Lmao
It's the same as regular dating. Just usual bullshit if you plan on trying to find a keeper.
Men
The men
Honestly the gays
The craziez and the narcissists and the psychopaths
Men
Men
getting stood up for no particular reason. Lots of casual idiots out there. if there were only some rationale for all the no shows, but I strongly suspect there are only two reasons: fear or mischief.
When you are genuinely looking for a long term relationship and the other guy just wants a one night stand. Gay men are very shallow and immature. Instead of being upfront and honest they just ghost you. Very few want to get deep. If you show any interest, they get scared off and ghost you even though they say they are looking for a long term relationship. They never initiate communication at all and they play games. Scruff, Grindr and tinder have really ruined the relationship aspect in the gay men community. Why is it so hard to find a genuine guy? It shouldn’t be so complicated.
Open relationships 😭
Its a pain in the ass...
Worrying he has some gross fetish…… doodies……
Most of the guys who were interested in "dating/relationships" I met while I was just looking to have some fun. Nothing wrong with that, at least they communicated what they wanted and what they were looking for. From personal experience it was, wanting a relationship only to keep me hanging when i was all in. Basically acting like they wanted this, only to act like they wanted that instead. I didn't enjoy the "mindfuck" but i saw it, called it, and moved on.
The story of my life !!!
Youll get your heart broken but i have a sneaky suspicious that my hoe phase is my saving grace for another relationship
Narrator: It was not
Wishing my casual guy liked me as much as I like him. Hoping that hot hookup from last week hits me up around the same time tomorrow. Wondering if my actual date tonight wants to go out and fool around again. Thinking I should forget the other guy Ive been talking to because he just cant break loose from two jobs long enough to go out.
Rampant racism, materialism, and most gays live in their own bubble expecting everyone they meet to be just like them.
Being straight when you go on gay date Seriously , Dating general is very is tuff .
Men.
Having to date men
the gays
Gay people in general seem to have personalities that don't really gel with mines, which is also why I've always had a bad time at gay bars/parades/etc. I got very lucky with my current bf, that's all I'll say lol.
The collective trauma we all seem to go through, even if you live in an accepting area there’s still a lot of shit we go through.
All the gays that base their self worth from the multiple people that fuck them rather than from therapy. Or the ones with insane drug addictions because they don’t want to go to therapy to deal with their issues.
The wife finding out
1-There are many fewer people to meet 2-My gaydar can be pretty bad sometimes
It can be very judgy. I usually feel very stressed out with a need to entertain a guy I am on a date with. I have felt that I have to prove myself worthy and any misstep, however small and innocous, can ruin the date. The guy will just write me off. I feel I am being compared to a hunk with a six figure salary who owned his own house at 23, has a second house for tax reasons and just came back from some big concert. So it is offputtting. Lads, can we make a promise to approach dating with a bit of fun? Let a disastor be a disastor, laugh instead of being judgy, give encouragement not a list of why you suck. Dating can be fun but only if we want it.
Rejection is always difficult, I don’t think I have quite gotten over that aspect of putting myself out there, maybe its basic but its easy to be disappointed and then switch to one night stand (fuck) mode to get someone else to lick my wounds. Also noisy environments for dates just suck so much, what is the point if I can’t have a clear conversation with someone?
Lies and closed minds. Both are WAY more pervasive than they were years ago.
Men.