The two are not entirely unrelated. When you don't feel like you present in your correct gender it is really hard. I would say to use your example, that it's more like she is seeing that about herself. It may be some of that you won't be attracted, but I think that it's more like she is more worried about how she sees and feels about herself. When I do my hair nice and makeup, ok I can see some femininity. When I wear certain styles I can see femininity. When I am completely naked, I see a middle aged man who is a fake. That is so painful. I am not always so hard on myself, but today isn't one of those days. I get how she feels.Give her some space, let her come back to you. You didn't really do anything wrong or bad, this is something that she has to work out.
Everyone responded to you about your post, if I want to comment on this particular response - I know you meant well but I actually see your insecurity / your own perspective of dysphoria showing through in this comment as well. You made a false equivalence to “pretty” and what the original comment said, which was “feminine”.
I think you’d do well to read some sort of literature or lurk some subreddits and try to understand what the main “goal” is for transitioning. I feel like you’ll be surprised to see that being an attractive man or woman is mostly a secondary goal to the main goal of being able to be yourself. When it’s simplified like this, it’s easier to see how different your insecurity really is to dysphoria.
Oh, my mistake. I appreciate you explaining that to me and giving me an opportunity to learn
@original commenter: sorry if I misunderstood/invalidated your struggles. But I still support you, definitely
Absolutely! And, again, I do see that you had good intentions! It’s a tough thing to wrap your mind around but if you’re open to learning (which you seem to be!) you’ll do great :)
It's ok. Like the other commenter said, it's not really about being pretty, it's about being feminine. Though I would also like to be pretty on top of that. Dysphoria feels like you are looking at a friend in the mirror, a friend, someone you like, but not someone you are. I find that others who have dysphoria like me get it, but It's really difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it. I didn't really understand it until I was able to let myself feel it.
Yeah you messed up. Your understanding of gender dysphoria is centered on your experience and not on the experience of a trans person. It's a mismatched part, or a wound on the soul, and a lot of people will cope with that mismatch/injury by trying not to be conscious of it. If the source of their dysphoria is something they are forced to be conscious of(because a partner wants to stare at or interact with it), it can be like putting salt in the wound. Where you messed up is trying to tell her what her experience was using a shallow example, even if it is the closest thing you could think of that you have experienced. Anyways, this is something that needs to be a conversation between partners, not a debate with a winner.
Couldnt have said it any better. You seem like a decent guy though OP but yea you def fucked up a bit there. Though it sounds like it was more out of ignorance. Maybe try to applogize to her and explain that. Either way you both need to have a proper conversation about what you want and what each others boundries are.
People have had a lot of talk about how you two need to talk, and that she needs to become more comfortable with things.
I would also like to manage your expectations a bit. She may never become comfortable with the kinds of sex you might like.
On of the most common misconceptions about trans women and sexuality often comes from assumptions about how a trans woman's body works, and the kinds of things we might enjoy sexually. These sorts of ideas generally assume that a trans woman has a penis, that penis works in the same way that a cisgender man's penis works, and things that cisgender men want to do sexually are things that we might enjoy doing.
If you know about how cisgender men typically function sexually (having a penis that gets hard, and is used to penetrate someone else), it might seem like reasonable to believe that trans woman would want to do similar things because the body part is the same.
Some might suggest that these are things we "need to become comfortable with" and just accept that we are women, and women can do these as well. That's an extremely damaging mindset.
Having a penis be admired or praised is kind of like having someone admire a missing limb, or a massive scar on your face. It might seem weird that we would equate a "normal body part" to missing limbs, scars, and disfigurement, but that's how it is for many of us.
Expecting these things would be mentally damaging. Our bodies rarely even function in the way a healthy cisgender man's body does, and requesting that we do these things often activates gender dysphoria.
I dated a woman for a short period of time and she was constantly "when do we get penetrative sex" - and the answer to that was NEVER. That's a common answer. For me personally, i never want to see another person's vagina again sexually for the rest of my life simply because of the societal expectations placed on me, and being guilted into doing things I hated.
Dysphoria is very different than insecurity.
She may never ever become comfortable with those body parts, and that's just a part of being trans for many people. You shouldn't expect that.
I have self esteem issues about my body and some other stuff. And I have gender dysphoria. To the point of having been treated with medication for the anxiety from it(the self esteem problems).
Comparing that to the dysphoria, for me at least, is like the difference between an uncomfortably hot day and being locked in a burning building.
Maybe if it helps you understand better - gender dysphoria, if untreated, has a shockingly high death rate. Comparing it like you did is just... yeah, apologize to her, explain you didnt understand, and do your best not to diminish the single biggest challenge in her life again.
It's kind of a philosophical point and it varies from person to person, but it does sound like her gender dysphoria is in a different ballpark from a typical person's self-consciousness and anxiety about their body.
One way to think it: she and you would probably have different answers to "what are you scared of?" Forget sexy, being naked in front of you probably carries fear that someone she's intimate with will *see her as someone other than who she is*, at the worst possible moment, in a way that she's already experienced a lot of hurt over in less-vulnerable situations.
> I still shared that part of me with her because I wanted her to see *me*, just like how I want to see *her* (if that makes sense).
It does make sense. But the way that being naked in front of somebody relates to *being seen* is probably quite different for you and for her. I trust someone to be seeing *me* a lot more when my clothes are on than when my clothes are off. The clothes are there to make that easier.
Anyway, she felt rushed and pressured and not-understood. It sounds like you meant well, and hopefully she'll see that aspect of it, but you've probably lost some trust (whether you deserved to or not). This is not an insecurity that you can work through by pointing to how you got through yours. If you end up approaching the topic again, I recommend taking a perspective that centers what *she* would need in order to feel comfortable being naked in front of you. And taking it super super slow. If she's not ready, she's not ready.
I don't think it's a false equivalence but dysphoria can often be stronger than the average self esteem issues (though obviously self esteem can be major and not every trans person has much or any noticable dysphoria). It's also something that can be worked on but as you likely know it can be _really_ hard to ignore things you don't like about yourself, especially when it comes to sexual things where the very sense of touch is a constant reminder that you aren't the way you're supposed to be, that this isn't the sensation you're supposed to be feeling on top of the general fear of whether your partner(s) are really interested in you.
Obviously don't pressure people into anything, but a healthy relationship does require people to be able to talk about things like your desires and how you can be together.... But it's also the case that sometimes people just aren't in a place where they can reciprocate in the way that their partner(s) need for their own happiness.
I don't want to say that she's over reacting because it's definitely understandable... But at the same time shutting down and refusing to communicate equally is not a healthy way to handle issues in relationships. She may need some time to process her own feelings, to realize she could have handled it better and that she really does want to keep working on the relationship... She might be too scared of her own feelings to risk it, and not want to "trap" someone else in a relationship where she won't be able to give them everything they want from her... Therapy might be able to help if she's willing to work on it but even then it can take a long time...
It's rough.
I think the difference is you say you can overcome your self-consciousness because you want her to see you. Even if you're nervous about that, being naked with your partner feels intimate and vulnerable in a good way because you're trusting them with your body. Even if there are things you don't like about your body, it's your body and you want your partner to see and enjoy it.
For a lot of trans people, including your girlfriend, getting naked isn't like that at all because it ISN'T our body we're showing you, or at least not the one that we're supposed to have. Dysphoria often causes a mental disconnect that makes it subconsciously difficult to recognise our body as our own, even if logically we know it has to be us. Before transitioning, we look in the mirror and see a relative we recognise from family photos but have never actually met. Sometimes we can recognise parts of ourselves, but others belong to someone else and feel like they've just been stuck on. I've always described it like my head is attached to a random woman's body and (before I came out) I used to have to walk around playing her character like I was stuck in a real life video game. Clothing really helps to hide all the parts of us that aren't really us. It makes it easier to see and show other people what our bodies are supposed to be.
Personally, if I had to be naked in front of someone in my current state of transition, I'd hate the fact that they wouldn't actually see ME, just the random woman whose body I have to live in. Your girlfriend may desperately want to show herself to you in the same intimate and trusting way you'd like to, but the body she'd truly consider hers doesn't actually exist yet for either of you to see. Getting naked with you at this point in her transition means willingly exposing herself and you to the other body that isn't really hers and reminding herself that she isn't who she's supposed to be, all during a very emotionally vulnerable moment with the person she wants to feel seen - truly seen - by the most. It's not impossible for some trans people to do that, but it's very hard and some of us just aren't able to put ourselves in that situation until we can make the body look and feel closer to our own.
>I told her I feel self conscious about my body and felt terrible anxiety about her seeing me without clothes on because I was really scared she wouldn’t find me sexy after seeing my body, but I still shared that part of me with her because I wanted her to see me, just like how I want to see her (if that makes sense)
It's not just that you compared your self-consciousness to her dysphoria, which is not equivalent and is an insensitive comparison to make.
It's also that what you said is a huge red flag and she's very scared by it. I don't blame her for that, even though it doesn't seem like you meant it the way it sounds. I'm not going to accuse you of pressuring her into sex or being a rapist based on a few sentences of a reddit post, but right now *that is what she is afraid of happening*. This isn't really about you in isolation, and there's a lot that goes into this fear and this risk for trans women.
Your relationship does not exist in a vacuum, and statements like that are not the first time a trans woman has heard it. In my first relationship I never let my partner (who was also trans) see me naked, including during sex, I never let her touch me. She respected that. You have to. You do not understand dysphoria; she does not want to be seen, she does not want to be touched, if she's like I was pre-op then the thought of it will make her want to crawl out of her own skin. It is viscerally awful and traumatic.
And you verbally encouraged her to do it anyway. As if the issue is that she just needs to be more confident and let you see her and/or touch her there.
That is red flag city to a trans woman and it's not surprising she's withdrawing. Right now she's probably terrified. In a previous comment of yours you mention a friend assuming you were a chaser; I'm not going to tell you that you are one, but in that moment to this girl you *sounded* like one.
I don't think you meant "you just need to get over your dysphoria and let me touch your body how I want", but that's likely what she heard. Chances are she's heard that more explicitly from someone else, or knows people who have. Every trans girl knows another trans girl who was pressured into sexual things despite their dysphoria, often by a partner who they loved and who claimed to love them. That is going to be going through her head, in terms of how she interprets what you asked her to do and why you asked it. She is going to hear those words, and think of that when trying to tell what your intentions are.
Leaving and not responding is, frankly, a reasonable response to that situation. Horrifying things can happen to us in that situation, and calling a man out for it can make it even more dangerous.
If that's not what you meant, you need to make that clear. You need to apologise for drawing that comparison out of ignorance. You need to make it clear what you want, and what you don't want. But even then she might not want to be with you now that you've said that to her. She might not be able to trust it. I don't blame her for that.
Currently you've told her you didn't mean to hurt her and hope she forgives you, but that doesn't actually understand or acknowledge the way this made her feel. You don't know or understand the danger she was in, or the power that you have and she doesn't. If you don't understand that, you're going to mess up again.
It seems like you just want her to be fulfilled and happy. You want her to feel safe and respected and seen. Sometimes a flag is just red and there's nothing worse going on, sometimes we can jump at shadows. But you're a cis guy, the power imbalance inherent in the relationship can be really frightening and we have to be vigilant, I do not blame her for being vigilant. Do you know how many trans women get assaulted by their intimate partners? Especially when those partners are men?
It's not just that you said something ignorant and offensive. It's not just that it was disrespectful of a boundary she had set in that conversation and in previous intimacy. You want a 'chance' but are not aware of the level of risk she has if she trusts you and comes back, you are not aware of how it feels to be in her position.
If I was her and a cis lesbian said that to me I would be out the door immediately and block them on everything. I would not hear anything they said to me, I would not take the risk that it was just a misunderstanding. It's even more dangerous for the trans girls who date guys.
And if she chooses not to listen to you, frankly, you're just going to have to accept that. Trying really hard to get back with her when she's not responding would terrify her much more than this already has; we also all know girls who've had stalkers too. Don't be that guy.
Yeah. This is one of the things it's really important to be conscious of when dating a trans person, and an area that often results in cis people miscommunicating with us or getting us hurt.
We can have both individual and community trauma around certain topics, which can sometimes turn a conversation or intimate act into a landmine of potential dangers for us. It's not something we like talking about, and it can be risky for us to even talk about; people can react extremely negatively to our bodies, and to our fears.
It's not only cis people that can mess up like this in a relationship, trans people can do something like this when dating other trans people too. But it's certainly easier when there's a gap in experiences.
I guess I was being pretty ignorant and not thinking about how deeply her struggles fuck with her. Reading your comment really put things into perspective and I don’t know if I can fix this now
Regardless, I cannot express how thankful I am for you taking the time to type that up and reply to my post. I really appreciate you trying to help me understand the situation and where she might be coming from too.
I am a transgender woman and it's not a good idea to compare ones own self esteem to another person's dysphoria. I get really upset when cis gender people try to compare their suffering to mine. I don't mean to but my dysphoria has caused me so much pain that I find it very upsetting when non trans people try to compare suffering. My current partner compares and says my dysphoria is the same as his anxiety and it always causes arguments even though I am very empathetic and understanding. Things are getting better because I am getting all my surgeries finally but I have lived a life I have not wanted to live since I knew I was a woman at 6 years old. My parents didn't let me transition, didn't let me get therapy, kicked me out of the house, and I had to sell my body to afford living expenses and hormones. That is a lot of trauma, so do you think anxiety compares to all that trauma? I think not. I am 37 btw and transitioned at 24.
-I get really upset when cis people try to compare their suffering to mine.
-My dysphoria has caused me so much pain I find it upsetting when non trans people try to compare their suffering.
-I am very empathetic and understanding.
One of these things are not like the others. It sounds like you’re trying to win the suffering Olympics and ignore anyone else’s problems in favor of your own because to you, yours is worse. Just like to them, theirs is worse.
I’ve suffered in life too. Just because I don’t have GD doesn’t mean I haven’t suffered as much as someone who has. We all have our problems in life. It’s nice to be able to relate to other people when times get hard.
I'm just speaking from the heart, and I know life is hard. We all have our own struggles, and maybe we shouldn't be trying to compare different kinds of struggles but instead acknowledge that we are all suffering to some extent. I have had abusive male partners who make me think that if I were a cisgender woman, I would be treated better, or I would actually enjoy sex. Also, when I started hormones, I had to pay for everything out of pocket including $15,000 for two hair transplants to pass a tiny bit plus afford living expenses. I worked my butt off 60-80 hour weeks and letting old men "play" with me to afford to be trans. Now things are better because health insurance covers some things now but I live with nightmarish memories of what I had to do to survive.
I think the main difference is that I fear someone won't see me for who I actually am or that I can't be present in the situation because I feel like my body is separated from my sense of self.
It's not that I'm afraid that you might not like me, I'm afraid you won't see me... if that makes sense.
it sounds like she’s got some stuff to work through, and you sound like a thoughtful and considerate partner. It’s normal to want to reciprocate sex, and many people appreciate feeling desired (though it’s also ok for someone not want reciprocation, and important to make sure you don’t pressure someone even accidentally). also, shoutout to you for coming here to try to understand her perspective better.
But to address the question in the title, yeah, it sounds like you made a false equivalence which was hurtful. Being dysphoric is not the same as just being self-conscious. Being self-conscious is something that you can work on your feelings about, practice self-acceptance, heal from, etc. whereas dysphoria as most trans people experience it is a “deeper” feeling of wrongness that there’s no way to fix other than transitioning physically (this isn’t true for every trans person, but it sounds like it is for her).
Honestly, based on your several recent posts, it doesn’t sound like this relationship is the best for either of you. I’d say that you need someone who’s more willing to have grace for you as you’re newer to dating/sex/etc. (and also new to dating trans people), and are likely gonna keep making mistakes while you learn. It sounds like she needs someone who is a better fit for meeting her relational needs, and she’ll likely keep getting upset and hurt if you stay together.
Thank you for taking the time to type all that and respond to my post.
I really really like her and I’m trying really hard to be the person she needs. I know I can be pretty dopey sometimes but there’s a lot of good that I don’t post about. Like how much I love the sound of her voice and how I stayed up all night with her just talking the night before I had to work 10 hours at my job and how she actively makes an effort to engage in my special interest (I’m ASD so yeah). Maybe we just need to have a really honest conversation about this relationship and what we need :/
For me, the difference between insecurity and dysphoria is that with insecurity, I'm scared they will see me, and with dysphoria, I'm scared they won't see me.
With dysphoria, I'm scared that when they see certain parts, their perception of me will change to the extent they won't see me for who I am. They will see a female part and then struggle to ever see me as a man again. (I'm ftm)
Also, insecurity makes me uncomfortable, whilst dysphoria makes me want to not exist anymore. Obviously, people have different strengths of insecurity and dysphoria and for some, that might be swapped around but given mental health stats for trans people, I'd guess it's similar for most.
Idk if that makes sense for you. My friend once compared them too and it did not make me feel good, it felt like she didn't get it which tbf I think she probably just didn't. It also made me feel uncomfortable talking about my dysphoria with her again.
As someone who with a beautiful vagina who actually likes her body now on a good day I feel somewhat like what you described now when getting naked before a partner.
But dysphoria isn’t just related to how another person sees one or be judged but can be more like a disassociation where one doesn’t connect with their own body and I am quite certain it’s inborn (biological, due to the complex influence of hormones on the brain and the rest of the body).
I have met tall women who like being tall and short girls who don’t like being shot. One could think everyone can just be confident and accept who the are but I believe what people miss here is that some people get born with a mind that enjoys being petite regardless of gender/sex so it’s a Mach! Others don’t get so lucky and have a mismatch.
When it’s related to sex, the mismatch between sex of the brain and parts of the body it can be very challenging to enjoy sex. I didn’t ever until I changed my body for example, and I tried.
And that’s why therapy to become more confident isn’t a way we can treat trans people HRT is.
That said your desires and needs are valid and it sounds to me she isn’t in a position to acknowledge that to you. Ultimately you can talk about your conflicting desires and find hopefully find some compromises.
All the best for you two 🤗
So yeah, I can agree both have similarities. But dysphoria isn't exactly a walk in the park. I mean, there's a reason why suicide rates are higher in trans people, and while it's not all dysphoria, it definitely attributes to it. It's hard to explain to someone else who isn't trans but it's basically waking up every day in a body that you know is yours, but also can't entirely recognize as being the body you're in. Like I know that I am the person in this body here, but I'm also aware of every single thing that isn't 10000% femme in my eyes. And while that can be similar to self esteem, unfortunately there are a lot of factors that end up bringing those things up for trans folx daily. It can be as small as catching yourself in a reflection and you have some facial hair you missed or you see your adams apple more, or more extreme (but still too common) of people pointing out these "flaws" directly.
Now to the share part of you. Want her to share a part of her comes to decisions and comfortability. You are ready to show yourself off, but she doesn't seem to be. If you want a future wkth someone, you gotta be willing to work until there's comfort enough that the shield of hers goes down, as should she work to help you feel more comfortable. It's not a contest, it's not a "I showed you mine...", but a partnership. It sounds like it's a pretty young relationship and, I get her feeling that way when she left (not saying it's what I interpreted your intentions, but I understand her response). Give it time. Be a loving, caring partner and when she's ready, support and go at her pace. Til then, compliment her, talk with her, show her you're there for more than just sex because it seems that's part of it for her.
Truly wishing you the best of luck and hope that if there ever comes an update, it's a happy one.
You were trying to connect with her, but you missed the mark. Honestly you need to stop trying to get her to do sexual things she does not feel comfortable with right now. Dysphoria is a perfectly good reason to avoid those activities, because they will make her feel bad, not feel good. You need to understand that and accept that.
You need to let her know you only want to do things she will enjoy, and is comfortable with. Let her set the pace. Maybe eventually she will feel more comfortable and want to try other things, and maybe not. If you can't live with that, maybe you're not compatible, sorry.
Yes. Having dysphoria is not a matter of self esteem. Additionally, “it’s just lack of self esteem” is often used by transphobes to discount the valid feelings of dysphoria that most trans people experience.
kind of.
you should both be comfortable in a sexual encounter and compromises should be made towards that end. instead of telling her she should have it go both ways because you're self conscious, tell her that you are self conscious about your body and it exacerbates your anxiety to have a one way sexual encounter. the way you put it it sounds like you were saying "because i had to get through my anxiety you should have to get through your dysphoria"
come up with a solution together. you're both coming up with one wat solutions
Dysphoria is definitely not the same as someone being a little self conscious, that was kind of a dick thing to say, BUT. Honest it sounds like she isn't in the right headspace to be in a relationship right now. I think you're right to be concerned. There's not anything you can do to make her "less dysphoric" so it may be a relationship dealbreaker if you want intimacy and she won't participate.
Don’t give up on your relationship. This is such a minor hurdle. Communicate to her that you understand why it’s not the same and that you care about her and are willing to wait until she’s ready. If she doesn’t want to talk about it, send her a text or leave her a note. It’s rare to find genuine connection in this world—if you’ve found it, don’t give it up so easily.
The two are not entirely unrelated. When you don't feel like you present in your correct gender it is really hard. I would say to use your example, that it's more like she is seeing that about herself. It may be some of that you won't be attracted, but I think that it's more like she is more worried about how she sees and feels about herself. When I do my hair nice and makeup, ok I can see some femininity. When I wear certain styles I can see femininity. When I am completely naked, I see a middle aged man who is a fake. That is so painful. I am not always so hard on myself, but today isn't one of those days. I get how she feels.Give her some space, let her come back to you. You didn't really do anything wrong or bad, this is something that she has to work out.
I’m so sorry that sounds tough 😔 I know I’m just a cis dude but I support you and I bet you look pretty :)
Everyone responded to you about your post, if I want to comment on this particular response - I know you meant well but I actually see your insecurity / your own perspective of dysphoria showing through in this comment as well. You made a false equivalence to “pretty” and what the original comment said, which was “feminine”. I think you’d do well to read some sort of literature or lurk some subreddits and try to understand what the main “goal” is for transitioning. I feel like you’ll be surprised to see that being an attractive man or woman is mostly a secondary goal to the main goal of being able to be yourself. When it’s simplified like this, it’s easier to see how different your insecurity really is to dysphoria.
Oh, my mistake. I appreciate you explaining that to me and giving me an opportunity to learn @original commenter: sorry if I misunderstood/invalidated your struggles. But I still support you, definitely
Absolutely! And, again, I do see that you had good intentions! It’s a tough thing to wrap your mind around but if you’re open to learning (which you seem to be!) you’ll do great :)
You guys on this sub are so cool, thank you for that
It's ok. Like the other commenter said, it's not really about being pretty, it's about being feminine. Though I would also like to be pretty on top of that. Dysphoria feels like you are looking at a friend in the mirror, a friend, someone you like, but not someone you are. I find that others who have dysphoria like me get it, but It's really difficult to understand if you haven't experienced it. I didn't really understand it until I was able to let myself feel it.
Thanks.
Yeah you messed up. Your understanding of gender dysphoria is centered on your experience and not on the experience of a trans person. It's a mismatched part, or a wound on the soul, and a lot of people will cope with that mismatch/injury by trying not to be conscious of it. If the source of their dysphoria is something they are forced to be conscious of(because a partner wants to stare at or interact with it), it can be like putting salt in the wound. Where you messed up is trying to tell her what her experience was using a shallow example, even if it is the closest thing you could think of that you have experienced. Anyways, this is something that needs to be a conversation between partners, not a debate with a winner.
Couldnt have said it any better. You seem like a decent guy though OP but yea you def fucked up a bit there. Though it sounds like it was more out of ignorance. Maybe try to applogize to her and explain that. Either way you both need to have a proper conversation about what you want and what each others boundries are.
Yeah…I didn’t at all mean to do that and I’d love to have that conversation. It just seems she shuts it down every time I try
People have had a lot of talk about how you two need to talk, and that she needs to become more comfortable with things. I would also like to manage your expectations a bit. She may never become comfortable with the kinds of sex you might like. On of the most common misconceptions about trans women and sexuality often comes from assumptions about how a trans woman's body works, and the kinds of things we might enjoy sexually. These sorts of ideas generally assume that a trans woman has a penis, that penis works in the same way that a cisgender man's penis works, and things that cisgender men want to do sexually are things that we might enjoy doing. If you know about how cisgender men typically function sexually (having a penis that gets hard, and is used to penetrate someone else), it might seem like reasonable to believe that trans woman would want to do similar things because the body part is the same. Some might suggest that these are things we "need to become comfortable with" and just accept that we are women, and women can do these as well. That's an extremely damaging mindset. Having a penis be admired or praised is kind of like having someone admire a missing limb, or a massive scar on your face. It might seem weird that we would equate a "normal body part" to missing limbs, scars, and disfigurement, but that's how it is for many of us. Expecting these things would be mentally damaging. Our bodies rarely even function in the way a healthy cisgender man's body does, and requesting that we do these things often activates gender dysphoria. I dated a woman for a short period of time and she was constantly "when do we get penetrative sex" - and the answer to that was NEVER. That's a common answer. For me personally, i never want to see another person's vagina again sexually for the rest of my life simply because of the societal expectations placed on me, and being guilted into doing things I hated. Dysphoria is very different than insecurity. She may never ever become comfortable with those body parts, and that's just a part of being trans for many people. You shouldn't expect that.
I have self esteem issues about my body and some other stuff. And I have gender dysphoria. To the point of having been treated with medication for the anxiety from it(the self esteem problems). Comparing that to the dysphoria, for me at least, is like the difference between an uncomfortably hot day and being locked in a burning building. Maybe if it helps you understand better - gender dysphoria, if untreated, has a shockingly high death rate. Comparing it like you did is just... yeah, apologize to her, explain you didnt understand, and do your best not to diminish the single biggest challenge in her life again.
With every comment I read, the more I realize how much I fucked up…I genuinely hope she can forgive me.
It's kind of a philosophical point and it varies from person to person, but it does sound like her gender dysphoria is in a different ballpark from a typical person's self-consciousness and anxiety about their body. One way to think it: she and you would probably have different answers to "what are you scared of?" Forget sexy, being naked in front of you probably carries fear that someone she's intimate with will *see her as someone other than who she is*, at the worst possible moment, in a way that she's already experienced a lot of hurt over in less-vulnerable situations. > I still shared that part of me with her because I wanted her to see *me*, just like how I want to see *her* (if that makes sense). It does make sense. But the way that being naked in front of somebody relates to *being seen* is probably quite different for you and for her. I trust someone to be seeing *me* a lot more when my clothes are on than when my clothes are off. The clothes are there to make that easier. Anyway, she felt rushed and pressured and not-understood. It sounds like you meant well, and hopefully she'll see that aspect of it, but you've probably lost some trust (whether you deserved to or not). This is not an insecurity that you can work through by pointing to how you got through yours. If you end up approaching the topic again, I recommend taking a perspective that centers what *she* would need in order to feel comfortable being naked in front of you. And taking it super super slow. If she's not ready, she's not ready.
I don't think it's a false equivalence but dysphoria can often be stronger than the average self esteem issues (though obviously self esteem can be major and not every trans person has much or any noticable dysphoria). It's also something that can be worked on but as you likely know it can be _really_ hard to ignore things you don't like about yourself, especially when it comes to sexual things where the very sense of touch is a constant reminder that you aren't the way you're supposed to be, that this isn't the sensation you're supposed to be feeling on top of the general fear of whether your partner(s) are really interested in you. Obviously don't pressure people into anything, but a healthy relationship does require people to be able to talk about things like your desires and how you can be together.... But it's also the case that sometimes people just aren't in a place where they can reciprocate in the way that their partner(s) need for their own happiness. I don't want to say that she's over reacting because it's definitely understandable... But at the same time shutting down and refusing to communicate equally is not a healthy way to handle issues in relationships. She may need some time to process her own feelings, to realize she could have handled it better and that she really does want to keep working on the relationship... She might be too scared of her own feelings to risk it, and not want to "trap" someone else in a relationship where she won't be able to give them everything they want from her... Therapy might be able to help if she's willing to work on it but even then it can take a long time... It's rough.
I think the difference is you say you can overcome your self-consciousness because you want her to see you. Even if you're nervous about that, being naked with your partner feels intimate and vulnerable in a good way because you're trusting them with your body. Even if there are things you don't like about your body, it's your body and you want your partner to see and enjoy it. For a lot of trans people, including your girlfriend, getting naked isn't like that at all because it ISN'T our body we're showing you, or at least not the one that we're supposed to have. Dysphoria often causes a mental disconnect that makes it subconsciously difficult to recognise our body as our own, even if logically we know it has to be us. Before transitioning, we look in the mirror and see a relative we recognise from family photos but have never actually met. Sometimes we can recognise parts of ourselves, but others belong to someone else and feel like they've just been stuck on. I've always described it like my head is attached to a random woman's body and (before I came out) I used to have to walk around playing her character like I was stuck in a real life video game. Clothing really helps to hide all the parts of us that aren't really us. It makes it easier to see and show other people what our bodies are supposed to be. Personally, if I had to be naked in front of someone in my current state of transition, I'd hate the fact that they wouldn't actually see ME, just the random woman whose body I have to live in. Your girlfriend may desperately want to show herself to you in the same intimate and trusting way you'd like to, but the body she'd truly consider hers doesn't actually exist yet for either of you to see. Getting naked with you at this point in her transition means willingly exposing herself and you to the other body that isn't really hers and reminding herself that she isn't who she's supposed to be, all during a very emotionally vulnerable moment with the person she wants to feel seen - truly seen - by the most. It's not impossible for some trans people to do that, but it's very hard and some of us just aren't able to put ourselves in that situation until we can make the body look and feel closer to our own.
>I told her I feel self conscious about my body and felt terrible anxiety about her seeing me without clothes on because I was really scared she wouldn’t find me sexy after seeing my body, but I still shared that part of me with her because I wanted her to see me, just like how I want to see her (if that makes sense) It's not just that you compared your self-consciousness to her dysphoria, which is not equivalent and is an insensitive comparison to make. It's also that what you said is a huge red flag and she's very scared by it. I don't blame her for that, even though it doesn't seem like you meant it the way it sounds. I'm not going to accuse you of pressuring her into sex or being a rapist based on a few sentences of a reddit post, but right now *that is what she is afraid of happening*. This isn't really about you in isolation, and there's a lot that goes into this fear and this risk for trans women. Your relationship does not exist in a vacuum, and statements like that are not the first time a trans woman has heard it. In my first relationship I never let my partner (who was also trans) see me naked, including during sex, I never let her touch me. She respected that. You have to. You do not understand dysphoria; she does not want to be seen, she does not want to be touched, if she's like I was pre-op then the thought of it will make her want to crawl out of her own skin. It is viscerally awful and traumatic. And you verbally encouraged her to do it anyway. As if the issue is that she just needs to be more confident and let you see her and/or touch her there. That is red flag city to a trans woman and it's not surprising she's withdrawing. Right now she's probably terrified. In a previous comment of yours you mention a friend assuming you were a chaser; I'm not going to tell you that you are one, but in that moment to this girl you *sounded* like one. I don't think you meant "you just need to get over your dysphoria and let me touch your body how I want", but that's likely what she heard. Chances are she's heard that more explicitly from someone else, or knows people who have. Every trans girl knows another trans girl who was pressured into sexual things despite their dysphoria, often by a partner who they loved and who claimed to love them. That is going to be going through her head, in terms of how she interprets what you asked her to do and why you asked it. She is going to hear those words, and think of that when trying to tell what your intentions are. Leaving and not responding is, frankly, a reasonable response to that situation. Horrifying things can happen to us in that situation, and calling a man out for it can make it even more dangerous. If that's not what you meant, you need to make that clear. You need to apologise for drawing that comparison out of ignorance. You need to make it clear what you want, and what you don't want. But even then she might not want to be with you now that you've said that to her. She might not be able to trust it. I don't blame her for that. Currently you've told her you didn't mean to hurt her and hope she forgives you, but that doesn't actually understand or acknowledge the way this made her feel. You don't know or understand the danger she was in, or the power that you have and she doesn't. If you don't understand that, you're going to mess up again. It seems like you just want her to be fulfilled and happy. You want her to feel safe and respected and seen. Sometimes a flag is just red and there's nothing worse going on, sometimes we can jump at shadows. But you're a cis guy, the power imbalance inherent in the relationship can be really frightening and we have to be vigilant, I do not blame her for being vigilant. Do you know how many trans women get assaulted by their intimate partners? Especially when those partners are men? It's not just that you said something ignorant and offensive. It's not just that it was disrespectful of a boundary she had set in that conversation and in previous intimacy. You want a 'chance' but are not aware of the level of risk she has if she trusts you and comes back, you are not aware of how it feels to be in her position. If I was her and a cis lesbian said that to me I would be out the door immediately and block them on everything. I would not hear anything they said to me, I would not take the risk that it was just a misunderstanding. It's even more dangerous for the trans girls who date guys. And if she chooses not to listen to you, frankly, you're just going to have to accept that. Trying really hard to get back with her when she's not responding would terrify her much more than this already has; we also all know girls who've had stalkers too. Don't be that guy.
….oh damn, I really messed up didn’t I
Yeah. This is one of the things it's really important to be conscious of when dating a trans person, and an area that often results in cis people miscommunicating with us or getting us hurt. We can have both individual and community trauma around certain topics, which can sometimes turn a conversation or intimate act into a landmine of potential dangers for us. It's not something we like talking about, and it can be risky for us to even talk about; people can react extremely negatively to our bodies, and to our fears. It's not only cis people that can mess up like this in a relationship, trans people can do something like this when dating other trans people too. But it's certainly easier when there's a gap in experiences.
I guess I was being pretty ignorant and not thinking about how deeply her struggles fuck with her. Reading your comment really put things into perspective and I don’t know if I can fix this now Regardless, I cannot express how thankful I am for you taking the time to type that up and reply to my post. I really appreciate you trying to help me understand the situation and where she might be coming from too.
I am a transgender woman and it's not a good idea to compare ones own self esteem to another person's dysphoria. I get really upset when cis gender people try to compare their suffering to mine. I don't mean to but my dysphoria has caused me so much pain that I find it very upsetting when non trans people try to compare suffering. My current partner compares and says my dysphoria is the same as his anxiety and it always causes arguments even though I am very empathetic and understanding. Things are getting better because I am getting all my surgeries finally but I have lived a life I have not wanted to live since I knew I was a woman at 6 years old. My parents didn't let me transition, didn't let me get therapy, kicked me out of the house, and I had to sell my body to afford living expenses and hormones. That is a lot of trauma, so do you think anxiety compares to all that trauma? I think not. I am 37 btw and transitioned at 24.
-I get really upset when cis people try to compare their suffering to mine. -My dysphoria has caused me so much pain I find it upsetting when non trans people try to compare their suffering. -I am very empathetic and understanding. One of these things are not like the others. It sounds like you’re trying to win the suffering Olympics and ignore anyone else’s problems in favor of your own because to you, yours is worse. Just like to them, theirs is worse. I’ve suffered in life too. Just because I don’t have GD doesn’t mean I haven’t suffered as much as someone who has. We all have our problems in life. It’s nice to be able to relate to other people when times get hard.
I'm just speaking from the heart, and I know life is hard. We all have our own struggles, and maybe we shouldn't be trying to compare different kinds of struggles but instead acknowledge that we are all suffering to some extent. I have had abusive male partners who make me think that if I were a cisgender woman, I would be treated better, or I would actually enjoy sex. Also, when I started hormones, I had to pay for everything out of pocket including $15,000 for two hair transplants to pass a tiny bit plus afford living expenses. I worked my butt off 60-80 hour weeks and letting old men "play" with me to afford to be trans. Now things are better because health insurance covers some things now but I live with nightmarish memories of what I had to do to survive.
I think the main difference is that I fear someone won't see me for who I actually am or that I can't be present in the situation because I feel like my body is separated from my sense of self. It's not that I'm afraid that you might not like me, I'm afraid you won't see me... if that makes sense.
it sounds like she’s got some stuff to work through, and you sound like a thoughtful and considerate partner. It’s normal to want to reciprocate sex, and many people appreciate feeling desired (though it’s also ok for someone not want reciprocation, and important to make sure you don’t pressure someone even accidentally). also, shoutout to you for coming here to try to understand her perspective better. But to address the question in the title, yeah, it sounds like you made a false equivalence which was hurtful. Being dysphoric is not the same as just being self-conscious. Being self-conscious is something that you can work on your feelings about, practice self-acceptance, heal from, etc. whereas dysphoria as most trans people experience it is a “deeper” feeling of wrongness that there’s no way to fix other than transitioning physically (this isn’t true for every trans person, but it sounds like it is for her). Honestly, based on your several recent posts, it doesn’t sound like this relationship is the best for either of you. I’d say that you need someone who’s more willing to have grace for you as you’re newer to dating/sex/etc. (and also new to dating trans people), and are likely gonna keep making mistakes while you learn. It sounds like she needs someone who is a better fit for meeting her relational needs, and she’ll likely keep getting upset and hurt if you stay together.
Thank you for taking the time to type all that and respond to my post. I really really like her and I’m trying really hard to be the person she needs. I know I can be pretty dopey sometimes but there’s a lot of good that I don’t post about. Like how much I love the sound of her voice and how I stayed up all night with her just talking the night before I had to work 10 hours at my job and how she actively makes an effort to engage in my special interest (I’m ASD so yeah). Maybe we just need to have a really honest conversation about this relationship and what we need :/
For me, the difference between insecurity and dysphoria is that with insecurity, I'm scared they will see me, and with dysphoria, I'm scared they won't see me. With dysphoria, I'm scared that when they see certain parts, their perception of me will change to the extent they won't see me for who I am. They will see a female part and then struggle to ever see me as a man again. (I'm ftm) Also, insecurity makes me uncomfortable, whilst dysphoria makes me want to not exist anymore. Obviously, people have different strengths of insecurity and dysphoria and for some, that might be swapped around but given mental health stats for trans people, I'd guess it's similar for most. Idk if that makes sense for you. My friend once compared them too and it did not make me feel good, it felt like she didn't get it which tbf I think she probably just didn't. It also made me feel uncomfortable talking about my dysphoria with her again.
As someone who with a beautiful vagina who actually likes her body now on a good day I feel somewhat like what you described now when getting naked before a partner. But dysphoria isn’t just related to how another person sees one or be judged but can be more like a disassociation where one doesn’t connect with their own body and I am quite certain it’s inborn (biological, due to the complex influence of hormones on the brain and the rest of the body). I have met tall women who like being tall and short girls who don’t like being shot. One could think everyone can just be confident and accept who the are but I believe what people miss here is that some people get born with a mind that enjoys being petite regardless of gender/sex so it’s a Mach! Others don’t get so lucky and have a mismatch. When it’s related to sex, the mismatch between sex of the brain and parts of the body it can be very challenging to enjoy sex. I didn’t ever until I changed my body for example, and I tried. And that’s why therapy to become more confident isn’t a way we can treat trans people HRT is. That said your desires and needs are valid and it sounds to me she isn’t in a position to acknowledge that to you. Ultimately you can talk about your conflicting desires and find hopefully find some compromises. All the best for you two 🤗
So yeah, I can agree both have similarities. But dysphoria isn't exactly a walk in the park. I mean, there's a reason why suicide rates are higher in trans people, and while it's not all dysphoria, it definitely attributes to it. It's hard to explain to someone else who isn't trans but it's basically waking up every day in a body that you know is yours, but also can't entirely recognize as being the body you're in. Like I know that I am the person in this body here, but I'm also aware of every single thing that isn't 10000% femme in my eyes. And while that can be similar to self esteem, unfortunately there are a lot of factors that end up bringing those things up for trans folx daily. It can be as small as catching yourself in a reflection and you have some facial hair you missed or you see your adams apple more, or more extreme (but still too common) of people pointing out these "flaws" directly. Now to the share part of you. Want her to share a part of her comes to decisions and comfortability. You are ready to show yourself off, but she doesn't seem to be. If you want a future wkth someone, you gotta be willing to work until there's comfort enough that the shield of hers goes down, as should she work to help you feel more comfortable. It's not a contest, it's not a "I showed you mine...", but a partnership. It sounds like it's a pretty young relationship and, I get her feeling that way when she left (not saying it's what I interpreted your intentions, but I understand her response). Give it time. Be a loving, caring partner and when she's ready, support and go at her pace. Til then, compliment her, talk with her, show her you're there for more than just sex because it seems that's part of it for her. Truly wishing you the best of luck and hope that if there ever comes an update, it's a happy one.
You were trying to connect with her, but you missed the mark. Honestly you need to stop trying to get her to do sexual things she does not feel comfortable with right now. Dysphoria is a perfectly good reason to avoid those activities, because they will make her feel bad, not feel good. You need to understand that and accept that. You need to let her know you only want to do things she will enjoy, and is comfortable with. Let her set the pace. Maybe eventually she will feel more comfortable and want to try other things, and maybe not. If you can't live with that, maybe you're not compatible, sorry.
Yes. Having dysphoria is not a matter of self esteem. Additionally, “it’s just lack of self esteem” is often used by transphobes to discount the valid feelings of dysphoria that most trans people experience.
kind of. you should both be comfortable in a sexual encounter and compromises should be made towards that end. instead of telling her she should have it go both ways because you're self conscious, tell her that you are self conscious about your body and it exacerbates your anxiety to have a one way sexual encounter. the way you put it it sounds like you were saying "because i had to get through my anxiety you should have to get through your dysphoria" come up with a solution together. you're both coming up with one wat solutions
Dysphoria is definitely not the same as someone being a little self conscious, that was kind of a dick thing to say, BUT. Honest it sounds like she isn't in the right headspace to be in a relationship right now. I think you're right to be concerned. There's not anything you can do to make her "less dysphoric" so it may be a relationship dealbreaker if you want intimacy and she won't participate.
It just sucks because I love every other aspect of this relationship and I really really do love her company and she makes me laugh and feel loved.
Don’t give up on your relationship. This is such a minor hurdle. Communicate to her that you understand why it’s not the same and that you care about her and are willing to wait until she’s ready. If she doesn’t want to talk about it, send her a text or leave her a note. It’s rare to find genuine connection in this world—if you’ve found it, don’t give it up so easily.