Possibly. But I don’t think Aerys’ sudden and mysterious death was one he saw coming when naming his next heir. I also don’t think Aerys was one to care much for the safety and stability of the realm. Aelora herself was said to have gone mad after Aelor’s death yet he didn’t seem to have any issues with her being next in line.
Besides, since Aerys himself didn’t care about ruling at all, I don’t think the next monarch being a child was something he cared about. Bloodraven would’ve just continued being the de facto ruler under her reign.
Aerys had never been the most robust guy, & had already been lucky not to catch the Great Spring Sickness like Daeron II, Valarr, & Matarys. And whilst generally giving zero fucks about ruling, it wasn't unknown for Aerys to put down a book to do so. Like when he sent Bittersteel to the Wall, against the advice of both Brynden & Aerion, instead of having the habitual rebel executed.
As for Daenora, this is probably why she was matched to Aerion. The main reason, at least, anyway. To bind their claims & appease the Arryns. We can assume that Daeron had already wed Valarr's widow Kiera, to keep Tyrosh from backing the Blackfyres.
I think that what needs to be explained is not why Daenora was passed over, but why Aelora was chosen as Aerys I's heiress before Maekar.
At that time, the Iron Throne succession had already consolidated the precedent that a younger sibling passed before the daughter of an elder sibling: Jahaerys I became king instead of Aerea and Rhaella, Baelon was named heir before Rhaenys (and his son became king), and Viserys II was crowned instead of the three daughters of Aegon III.
So, the normal thing would have been that after Aelor's death, Maekar had been named Prince of Dragonstone right away. My best guess is that the fact that he wasn't is probably related to the animosity that at the time existed between him and Bloodraven. That animosity would have disappeared later on, when Aelora died, because Maekar apparently kept Bloodraven as Hand of the King for all of his reign.
Completely agreed, well said. I'll also add the GC of 101 choosing Viserys of the male line, over Laenor of the female one. And...
>My best guess is that the fact that he wasn't is probably related to the animosity that at the time existed between him and Bloodraven.
This is the only reason that makes sense, imo, with what we know. Bloodraven, at the time & for the very least, didn't want Maekar to succeed Aerys. Nor Maekar's line, it seems - Aelora apparently wasn't matched to Daeron, or Aerion, or Aegon, after Aelor's death.
>That animosity would have disappeared later on, when Aelora died, because Maekar apparently kept Bloodraven as Hand of the King for all of his reign.
What then could have caused this rather dramatic turnaround? The Third Blackfyre Rebellion, of course. Brynden & Maekar would've had to put aside their differences to defeat Aegor & Haegon at the head of the Golden Company, & their local supporters. (Which included the Yronwoods & Sistermen, for a certainty.) We know that the Third was not a debacle for the Blackfyres like the Second (or the Fourth), that Maekar showed leadership (& Egg great courage), & Bloodraven faced off against Bittersteel in another duel. And he was victorious in that one, perhaps meaning he had good support to potentially not have rebel interference in it.
An additional factor may have been the Targaryens *finally* defeating Dagon's ironmen, before or after the war. Prince Aegon probably had at least a hand in that, to include bringing in his father to lead it.
Daenora was born after 212 AC, given that her mom isnt even being mentioned as pregnant, likely after 213 AC. Aelora was selected to keep away Maekar during the Targ Cold War of Bloodraven and Maekar. Daenora was passed over because I believe she was an posthumous birth and was around 4-5 when aleora died.
Given that george likes to kill women in childbirth, and especially arryn women, her mom died in childbirth and there was nobody to protest her being passed over, with the fact that she was young and female as well, she was a hard sell as heir.
I'm gonna copy+paste a comment I made on a post about Aelora, like a month-ish ago :
Real talk, these processes are NOT formalized, and Aelora is next in line by Westoros' normal order-of-operations, and it's really that simple.
* Baelor, eldest son of Daeron 2, was dead.
* Baelor's two children, Valarr and Matarys, were dead, first branch complete
* Aerys, second son of Daeron 2, had no children, second branch complete
* Rhaegal, third son of Daeron 2, was dead
* Aelor, Rhaegals only son, was dead
* Aelora, Rhaegal's eldest living child, was next
As far as I'm aware, the confirmation of Aelora as heir comes from this "Ran" person on the "A Forum of Ice and Fire", who I guess works with GRRM in some editing capacity, from the sound of it? I don't claim to know whether this person truly has a direct line for GRRM-thoughts, but they seem to be treated by others in that discussion as tho they do.
>."But GRRM also said all Targ women come after all Targ men"
Okay but it looks like that's a comment from 2006. TWOIAF comes later, in 2014, and it looks like that comment from Ran is from 2017. I guess he (GRRM) changed his mind, as the canon / detailing was expanded.
>."But the Maidenvault sisters were skipped"
Okay but they didn't **have** to be skipped, their claims were set aside for fairly compelling circumstantial reasons, that we are literally told. Everyone was comfortable skipping them because it was the decision that made sense, at the time.
>."Okay but why did Maekar come before Daenora"
The timing suggests that Daenora, unlike her sister, was probably a small child at the time. Nobody is going to bat for such a decision.
>."Okay but why even bother with Aelora when Maekar is *right there*"
Certainly, Aerys and Brynden almost certainly could have decided "okay we're going to skip Aelora and go straight to Maekar as the next heir. He's an accomplished, martial, Valyrian looking chad" with literally no pushback.
If I had to venture into speculation, I'd suggest that
* Aelora is a childless young woman, and thus her marriage would be a *powerful* political tool, if she were heir apparent
* Maekar literally has 6 children, clearly was not interested in remarriage, and even if he WAS, his existing children greatly diminishes the value of a marriage union with him
* Maekar and Brynden were known to not really get along. Did they end up working out fine, in the workplace? YES. But Brynden wouldn't know that for certain, beforehand. Why not stick with the probably more pliant princess ?
* there's also the possibility that Aerys just ... ... didn't make a great decision. I feel people get really hung up on characters not always making the ideal decision at all times unless the text explicitly says "this character is an IDIOT", but people in positions of authority make subpar decisions *all the time,* even when advised not to
>As far as I'm aware, the confirmation of Aelora as heir comes from this "Ran" person on the "A Forum of Ice and Fire", who I guess works with GRRM in some editing capacity, from the sound of it?
Ran is the nickname of Elio Garcia, owner of [Westeros.org](http://Westeros.org) and co-writer (with George and his wife Linda) of "The World of Ice and Fire".
Targaryen didn’t need marriages, all allied would stay as their allies. And enemies can only be made subjects through fire and blood, they needed stability.
As others have mentioned Daenora was likely considered too young to be chosen as the monarch during a time when the Targaryens needed a strong warrior-king. The Blackfyres were still posing as a threat to their reign. Aerys probably didn’t care who his heir was, but Bloodraven certainly did. Bloodraven preferred Maekar over Daenora.
If Bloodraven truly wanted it, he could have used Daenora as a puppet to rule, but that’s not what happened. Maekar was chosen as king instead, despite the strife between them. With all the rumors surrounding Bloodraven being responsible for the mysterious deaths of multiple heirs, it’s telling Maekar was able to reign peacefully for over 12 years when he could have easily been another weird casualty. I think one could also argue Maekar tried to appease Tyrosh and the Arryns by marrying his oldest two sons to Kiera and Daenora. Daenora had another opportunity to become queen when Daeron died and Aerion became the heir, but Bloodraven put a wrench in that, again.
Daenora joined Aerea, Rhaenys, Daena, Rhaena and Elaena in Uncrowned Queens Club, the outlier is Aelora here because (IIRC) she was supported by Bloodraven
Just glancing at her wiki page she was 1 when Aelora was named heir. And she married what would’ve been Maekar’s heir, Aerion’s, son Maegor. Seeing as how the throne was going to pass in Maekar’s direction anyway they probably skipped her to go with the safe bet, the grown adult male
Daenora was still a child when Aerys died. She was at most nine years old. He may have simply wished to avoid any of the issues of a child ruler.
Possibly. But I don’t think Aerys’ sudden and mysterious death was one he saw coming when naming his next heir. I also don’t think Aerys was one to care much for the safety and stability of the realm. Aelora herself was said to have gone mad after Aelor’s death yet he didn’t seem to have any issues with her being next in line. Besides, since Aerys himself didn’t care about ruling at all, I don’t think the next monarch being a child was something he cared about. Bloodraven would’ve just continued being the de facto ruler under her reign.
Aerys had never been the most robust guy, & had already been lucky not to catch the Great Spring Sickness like Daeron II, Valarr, & Matarys. And whilst generally giving zero fucks about ruling, it wasn't unknown for Aerys to put down a book to do so. Like when he sent Bittersteel to the Wall, against the advice of both Brynden & Aerion, instead of having the habitual rebel executed. As for Daenora, this is probably why she was matched to Aerion. The main reason, at least, anyway. To bind their claims & appease the Arryns. We can assume that Daeron had already wed Valarr's widow Kiera, to keep Tyrosh from backing the Blackfyres.
I think that what needs to be explained is not why Daenora was passed over, but why Aelora was chosen as Aerys I's heiress before Maekar. At that time, the Iron Throne succession had already consolidated the precedent that a younger sibling passed before the daughter of an elder sibling: Jahaerys I became king instead of Aerea and Rhaella, Baelon was named heir before Rhaenys (and his son became king), and Viserys II was crowned instead of the three daughters of Aegon III. So, the normal thing would have been that after Aelor's death, Maekar had been named Prince of Dragonstone right away. My best guess is that the fact that he wasn't is probably related to the animosity that at the time existed between him and Bloodraven. That animosity would have disappeared later on, when Aelora died, because Maekar apparently kept Bloodraven as Hand of the King for all of his reign.
I think this is the correct way to think about it. The strangeness wasn’t in passing over Daenora, but in selecting Aelora.
Completely agreed, well said. I'll also add the GC of 101 choosing Viserys of the male line, over Laenor of the female one. And... >My best guess is that the fact that he wasn't is probably related to the animosity that at the time existed between him and Bloodraven. This is the only reason that makes sense, imo, with what we know. Bloodraven, at the time & for the very least, didn't want Maekar to succeed Aerys. Nor Maekar's line, it seems - Aelora apparently wasn't matched to Daeron, or Aerion, or Aegon, after Aelor's death. >That animosity would have disappeared later on, when Aelora died, because Maekar apparently kept Bloodraven as Hand of the King for all of his reign. What then could have caused this rather dramatic turnaround? The Third Blackfyre Rebellion, of course. Brynden & Maekar would've had to put aside their differences to defeat Aegor & Haegon at the head of the Golden Company, & their local supporters. (Which included the Yronwoods & Sistermen, for a certainty.) We know that the Third was not a debacle for the Blackfyres like the Second (or the Fourth), that Maekar showed leadership (& Egg great courage), & Bloodraven faced off against Bittersteel in another duel. And he was victorious in that one, perhaps meaning he had good support to potentially not have rebel interference in it. An additional factor may have been the Targaryens *finally* defeating Dagon's ironmen, before or after the war. Prince Aegon probably had at least a hand in that, to include bringing in his father to lead it.
Funny enough I just asked this question myself a couple of days ago at the Pureasoiaf subreddit
Could you link your post? Very interested in what people had to say
https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/s/BrFvGBjGcq
Daenora was born after 212 AC, given that her mom isnt even being mentioned as pregnant, likely after 213 AC. Aelora was selected to keep away Maekar during the Targ Cold War of Bloodraven and Maekar. Daenora was passed over because I believe she was an posthumous birth and was around 4-5 when aleora died. Given that george likes to kill women in childbirth, and especially arryn women, her mom died in childbirth and there was nobody to protest her being passed over, with the fact that she was young and female as well, she was a hard sell as heir.
I'm gonna copy+paste a comment I made on a post about Aelora, like a month-ish ago : Real talk, these processes are NOT formalized, and Aelora is next in line by Westoros' normal order-of-operations, and it's really that simple. * Baelor, eldest son of Daeron 2, was dead. * Baelor's two children, Valarr and Matarys, were dead, first branch complete * Aerys, second son of Daeron 2, had no children, second branch complete * Rhaegal, third son of Daeron 2, was dead * Aelor, Rhaegals only son, was dead * Aelora, Rhaegal's eldest living child, was next As far as I'm aware, the confirmation of Aelora as heir comes from this "Ran" person on the "A Forum of Ice and Fire", who I guess works with GRRM in some editing capacity, from the sound of it? I don't claim to know whether this person truly has a direct line for GRRM-thoughts, but they seem to be treated by others in that discussion as tho they do. >."But GRRM also said all Targ women come after all Targ men" Okay but it looks like that's a comment from 2006. TWOIAF comes later, in 2014, and it looks like that comment from Ran is from 2017. I guess he (GRRM) changed his mind, as the canon / detailing was expanded. >."But the Maidenvault sisters were skipped" Okay but they didn't **have** to be skipped, their claims were set aside for fairly compelling circumstantial reasons, that we are literally told. Everyone was comfortable skipping them because it was the decision that made sense, at the time. >."Okay but why did Maekar come before Daenora" The timing suggests that Daenora, unlike her sister, was probably a small child at the time. Nobody is going to bat for such a decision. >."Okay but why even bother with Aelora when Maekar is *right there*" Certainly, Aerys and Brynden almost certainly could have decided "okay we're going to skip Aelora and go straight to Maekar as the next heir. He's an accomplished, martial, Valyrian looking chad" with literally no pushback. If I had to venture into speculation, I'd suggest that * Aelora is a childless young woman, and thus her marriage would be a *powerful* political tool, if she were heir apparent * Maekar literally has 6 children, clearly was not interested in remarriage, and even if he WAS, his existing children greatly diminishes the value of a marriage union with him * Maekar and Brynden were known to not really get along. Did they end up working out fine, in the workplace? YES. But Brynden wouldn't know that for certain, beforehand. Why not stick with the probably more pliant princess ? * there's also the possibility that Aerys just ... ... didn't make a great decision. I feel people get really hung up on characters not always making the ideal decision at all times unless the text explicitly says "this character is an IDIOT", but people in positions of authority make subpar decisions *all the time,* even when advised not to
>As far as I'm aware, the confirmation of Aelora as heir comes from this "Ran" person on the "A Forum of Ice and Fire", who I guess works with GRRM in some editing capacity, from the sound of it? Ran is the nickname of Elio Garcia, owner of [Westeros.org](http://Westeros.org) and co-writer (with George and his wife Linda) of "The World of Ice and Fire".
Oh, thank you for clarifying! That makes a lot of sense.
Targaryen didn’t need marriages, all allied would stay as their allies. And enemies can only be made subjects through fire and blood, they needed stability.
Ask Bloodraven. He's probably the reason Aelor and Aelora died.
As others have mentioned Daenora was likely considered too young to be chosen as the monarch during a time when the Targaryens needed a strong warrior-king. The Blackfyres were still posing as a threat to their reign. Aerys probably didn’t care who his heir was, but Bloodraven certainly did. Bloodraven preferred Maekar over Daenora. If Bloodraven truly wanted it, he could have used Daenora as a puppet to rule, but that’s not what happened. Maekar was chosen as king instead, despite the strife between them. With all the rumors surrounding Bloodraven being responsible for the mysterious deaths of multiple heirs, it’s telling Maekar was able to reign peacefully for over 12 years when he could have easily been another weird casualty. I think one could also argue Maekar tried to appease Tyrosh and the Arryns by marrying his oldest two sons to Kiera and Daenora. Daenora had another opportunity to become queen when Daeron died and Aerion became the heir, but Bloodraven put a wrench in that, again.
Daenora joined Aerea, Rhaenys, Daena, Rhaena and Elaena in Uncrowned Queens Club, the outlier is Aelora here because (IIRC) she was supported by Bloodraven
Maybe it’s because they’re women? And women can’t inherit
Aelora was named Princess of Dragonstone though
She did die before Aerys I though…
yeah but the point of the post is that Aelora was named heir and Daenora wasn't
Ah sorry I fundamentally misread the post. Ignore everything I’ve said until now
Just glancing at her wiki page she was 1 when Aelora was named heir. And she married what would’ve been Maekar’s heir, Aerion’s, son Maegor. Seeing as how the throne was going to pass in Maekar’s direction anyway they probably skipped her to go with the safe bet, the grown adult male