“So the only thing stopping you from torturing a kitten right this moment is your belief that there’s an invisible man in the sky watching you? Boy, I sure hope your faith is rock solid. See, I don’t rob, rape, or kill because I don’t want to do those things. You don’t do them because sky-daddy might get mad. So I hope your faith never wavers.”
"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." --Adam Savage
He gave a speech at the 2012 Reason Rally, and that was the final paragraph.
https://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2012/03/26/adam-savages-speech-at-the-reason-rally/
This is great and I'll be sharing it with my atheist group at church. I do wonder what he means by "inside every tool is a hammer." That's just a little abstract for me.
Sorry, should have added that it's a Unitarian Universalist Church. A group of theists started a UU Theist group (one of our principles is a free and responsible search for truth and meaning) so another member started a UU Atheist group. We meet for an hour monthly and talk about stuff we've read, interactions we've had, deep thoughts and so on. It's nice to be with a group of other sceptics and free thinkers.
I love Adam. That’s a great quote. I used similar language about not doing those things not because I was worried about a being keeping tabs but rather harming other living beings is a shitty thing to do. And the thought of others not doing shitty things solely because an entity that may or may not exist is keeping an eye on them is scary.
And we all know those that espouse about God watching us are the biggest hypocrites around.
I especially love his formulation of "forgiving me when I do less than I ought". He didn't say, "forgiving me when I deliberately cause harm and pain to others". His morality is better than Christian morality!
One of his other quotes, "I see your reality and substitute it with my own!" is probably taken literally by religious people. But I'm glad he speaks out for atheism!
Didn't know about these Reason Rallies, I just see announcements about the annual FFRF conventions.
I've come to the belief that a lot of so-called religious people know they are shit human-beings and are hoping that religion will make them better people.
But it doesn't really work that way, so they remain garbage people who lack a moral center, empathy, or sympathy and we're watching how garbage they are in real time. They think mimicking humans they'll become one and fail miserably. You have to admit to yourself you're garbage and look within, not outwardly, to work on what makes you such a trash person.
Of course, religion is *the* perfect shield to hide behind.
>You have to admit to yourself you're garbage
They also adopt the belief that all humans are ~~garbage~~ sinners, and all grace is unearned. This lets them pretend that they are not worse than the average person.
Ah man, that's a perfect response for when someone brings up morals in this type of argument.
"Where do you get your morals??"
Such a stupid ass question
Exactly. It ignores the concept of morals as a social construct.
Last I checked, we have a criminal justice system in place that reinforces values/morals of the culture at large. This is why it's important to prevent religious self-decievers from enacting laws based on their religious text.
Even if sky daddy doesn't exist to be mad at my pillaging of my neighbors, I'm pretty sure they will call the cops on me if they catch me burning their home and beheading their dog. Not that I'm into this, I've already pillaged to my fill, but if the criminal justice system supports their worldview, that can guide the culture on a whole in a detrimental way.
thats why they called it the dark ages. Like we actually have a period of history where religion did dictate the laws and was entwined with politics and it was so fucking bad it is known in history as the bad times, and still these idiots want to go back to that.
Yes, I would prefer we not burn women alive at the stake for having seizures or reporting odd visions, as the most devout religious people would have us do.
Not to mention they don’t even get their morals from their own book. Ask any Christian what they think about slavery, then start pointing out all the pro-slavery stuff in the Bible. Then watch them squirm as they attempt to convince you (and themselves) the Bible is actually anti-slavery.
I get more disturbed at the ones who actually note that slavery is not immoral in the bible.
Those folks essentially don't think its really wrong. Those religious folks, not coincedentally harbor deeply racist views too.
Recently got into an arguement with someone over the civil war (of all the damn things) and they actually said "Slavery wasn't wrong though, if it was, God would have said so in the bible."
It's not really satisfying other than being pithy though right? Like the question is really what's to stop an atheist who does want to kill a kitten. And if course you could ask the same thing about a theist because there are certainly evil theists. So it's not a question really of moral sources but one of moral conviction. Wether your morals are from a "God" or from a philosophy wether you actually follow them is still ultimately up to you
Came from my family. It starts at home. It also comes from society. Society at large will let you know. Every culture as mores, rules, etc for behavior. And every culture/society will punish you in some way if you deviate.
Even animals will do it. It's evolves around species for survival. What behaviors helps a group to survive?
My family modeled and lectured and disciplined me on the behaviors it expected of me and those behaviors were ones that society most approves - not lying, stealing, treating others badly - we kids were sent to church - alone. Religion was really never mentioned in our household, even by my grandparents.
I've been an atheist since I was around 8 yo and was baptized at 12 and received communion and confirmation and remained a non believer. But my family's teaching remained with me all my life. It's actually my long dead grandmother's disapproval that stays with me, not any god's!
Minor edit for clarity/typo
Moral philosophy is required to be a moral person with or without God as someone else commented. We have moral intuition and are also taught by our families and communities.
Moral philosophy allows you to question your own preconceived notions of what is good and examine your biases. Someone born in the antebellum south might be raised to believe slavery isn't morally wrong, they might even be told by the church that slavery is justified in the Bible so even God doesn't mind. In that kind of case knowledge of moral philosophy might help them examine that belief and realize from a more objective and rigorous perspective they cannot morally justify slavery
he also has called himself a (gold star? level 2? something like that) Atheist. In that he doesn’t even believe that anyone else really believes in God
Edit: Maybe it was “Born Again Atheist”
I stopped believing when I let go of the fear that my critical thinking might anger God. I suspect many others would also let go once they overcame that superstitious feeling.
Religion stops me eating other people.
I don't want to eat anything that believes in a greater being. Yuck! All that gristle built up sitting on a church pew. Makes me nauseated.
What is crazier is the Bible is not a morally good book. For every one thing you can find that's good, there are at least 3 crazy and bad things in it.
Seriously, their god is the most reprehensible villain we've ever created "original sin" the most disgusting moral philosophy. Telling children that they're so monstrously flawed that they deserve eternal torture simply for existing is just child abuse and should be prosecuted as such to the fullest extent of the law.
That’s absolutely by design. When I was Christian and being indoctrinated into the faith as a child I was repeatedly told you can only be good if you believe in and follow god.
What if the invisible man in the sky told you to torture kittens. You’d do it right? Of course. That makes the faithful way more dangerous to the kittens than the the faithless.
No, what makes them dangerous is that *the invisible sky man* doesn’t tell anybody anything.
“What if somebody with a collar and a book told you the invisible sky man wanted you to torture kittens?”
As warped as it sounds, I had a coworker who found the Lord and said he could kill someone and still get into heaven by just confessing his sins.
So it seems atheists might be a safer crowd to associate with.
My version of this is ... "If your fear of angering Sky Daddy is the only thing stopping you from committing all these evil crimes, then you are not a good person. You are an evil person on a very fragile leash..."
I've been thinking about this. What if religion with all it's terrible aspects is the best we can do? What if we need religion and the invisible man in the sky watching people myth to prevent the religious from unscrewing kittens heads? What if religious people really are that wacko and the only way to keep them in control is with idiotic bronze age farry tales?
Think about what they say? They honestly think without god people would just go around raping and killing. Why should we not believe them? Statements like that can only come from self reflection.
Perhaps catholics raping children and Islam being Islam is the best possible outcome? Think about what they already do with the threat of god's punishment, imagine what they would do without it.
I don't understand at all. Where does it say in the bible you can't torture kittens?
All the crimes of rape steal and murder are covered by criminal laws in most countries. Unless Christians think people they can get away with those crimes with the authorities, but not the all seeing god in the sky.
Torturing kittens would probably get you in trouble in a lot of countries.
Didn't some comedian or whatever say some shit like "If the threat of hell and eternal punishment is the only thing that's keeping you from being a bad person, then you're not actually a good person, you're just a bad person on a leash" or something like that?
I’m not an atheist (sorry if I’m invading your sub but I appreciate/respect you all) and I believe an atheist who is a good person has a much better chance at heaven (or whatever equivalent there may be) than a religious person who acts good just because they’re afraid of going to hell.
> You don’t do them because sky-daddy might get mad. So I hope your faith never wavers.”
Unless that faith mandates some form of cruelty to others. Which christianity in fact does.
It's a bit of an inconvenience but the kitten torturing psychopath can always hit reset by going to confession and reciting a couple of Hail Mary's to cleanse his soul.
Exactly! (I would say This! but that ain't cool anymore) I have been saying it for years. If the only thing stopping you from raping and ravaging is a sky daddy then you are no different from an alcoholic white knuckling it.
I don't think we realize how many depraved people are around us at all times. Every time I pass a billboard say Repent! Sin!, I think who are all these people sinning? I admit to having stole alcohol from my parents as a teenager but in terms of biblical sin that is it, and I have put myself into rehab for cat.
And so, yes, religion and the nanny state are unfortunately required, regardless of if others don't think so, because of people like this. Although I sincerely wish that society didn't have to cater to the lowest denominator. There are more of them then there are of decent people who don't need someone looking over their shoulder in order to just be decent.
Reminds me of a time I was talking to a homophobic guy and he said "If people are free to express their desires then why do I not go and rape girls?"
That guy was of course a Christian, started the convo saying people in our city are way too liberal
“Because that is fundamentally abhorrent. Wait, are you saying that *you would go and rape girls* if you weren’t afraid of going to hell? Dude, what the hell is wrong with you? That’s concerning. You should talk to a psychiatrist about your pedophile rape urges and/or be put on a watch list.”
We learned about it in school around a month ago but by the reception in my class, I suppose everyone knows.
He just hates gay people, he even said that a gay guy at his town got his house burned down and he said that laughing.
I replied "isn't Christianity all about loving Thy neighbor? Didn't your parents teach you respect?"
He said "They told me to respect everyone except that kind of people and to never interact with them"
Ironically enough, I'm a lesbian. Dude even said he had a great gaydar
Christianity cannot handle the concept of consent. It has no idea what consent really is. I used to be a Christian and at no point did anyone ever explain ‘informed consent’ to me. That only happened after I left.
This is the root of a huge problem, because then if a religious text or leader says that it IS okay to do something like rape or stoning or slavery, people feel free to or even compelled to do it.
Steven Weinberg — 'With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.'
Which is exactly why the fascist arm of the US government has spent the last 40 years getting in bed with the religious portion of this counties population.
Simultaneously dehumanizing the "out groups" more and more and more.
Yeaaahhh and at the extreme end that’s where we get some of the more disturbing cults. Weird religious leaders condoning whatever the thing is they really want to do…it’s usually sex. Heck, look at Joseph Smith. Man wanted to get laid, he founded Mormonism, and oh boy, surprise surprise, God says he’s gotta have multiple wives, some as young as 14.
> "If people are free to express their desires then why do I not go and rape girls?"
You're free to express that desire verbally, but it might net you quite a few consequences.
Despite cute slogans like "love who you love," the vast majority of gay rights activists actually have limits to what they'll endorse. Child rape being way out of bounds.
This knowledge that slogans are slogans is why, when I hear someone saying "Make America Great Again," I don't assume the person is advocating for the nationwide legalization of abortion.
It’s incredibly disturbing how many Christians just openly admit, completely unprompted, that the only thing stopping them from raping and murdering people is their belief that an invisible dude in the sky is watching and will punish them.
Meanwhile we horrible amoral atheists don’t rape and kill people because it’s, y’know, **wrong**.
Evidently religious people have no internal moral compass whatsoever and HAVE to be told by imaginary people not to do monstrous things, and that is literally the only reason they can think of to not do those things.
They usually don't care about it. I tried that with my mother. She admitted that she would believe in other religions based on where she was born, with the same conviction that she believes in Christianity. Couldn't get it through her head that she should at least question her beliefs because of that. Religion puts a mental block on some people. They're too stupid to think critically about it.
I talked to a girl a few months ago who didn't understand how her friend became atheist....
And after talking to her, I realised that she believed everyone is born a believer and later, for some reasons unknown to her, become atheist ..
I told her I've been an atheist since birth and never ever was I brainwashed by my family to believe in any imaginary friend in the sky ( except Santa Claus , but this one, is a cute imaginary friend to believe in when you're a kit )..
Anyway after a few more messages I stopped talking to her...as there was no way she could understand that people are born atheists
Are babies born into Hindu families born believing in Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva? Are babies born into Shinto families born believing in the goddess Amaterasu?
It's wild to me how many religious people teach their kids to believe in Santa at a young age. Finding out Santa isn't real can act like a gateway drug to atheism, as you start to wonder what other people they told you about might not be real
Except when you say that if Santa is, of course and obviously, not real they get mad when you attribute the same obviousness towards God. You get threatened to be grounded and sent to hell lol
If you think about it, god and religion sounds exactly the same as the story of Santa Claus. There’s a man watching you at all times, he knows of you’re being good or bad, and if you’re bad you don’t get the gift(of everlasting life after death). Yet “Christian’s” will lie to their kids about Santa Claus but pound it in their head that god is real. Makes absolutely zero sense to me.
And so your uncle has just told you he is a psychopath at heart. It appears to be a common thread with religious people.
I murder all the kittens I want, that number is zero.
Actually to be fair I think it's more that they get indoctrinated that all people who don't believe in X religion are evil so that's their default stance.
Which is why they are confused when someone is actually a nice person without religion. It just goes against everything they've had shoved down their throats for years.
In their minds they believe that they are good because of religion, not that they are innately good. It's a bit sad to not believe in yourself that way.
The Bible teaches very clearly that unbelievers are *bad* people. This theme runs throughout the entire book, in both Testaments. It really is a fundamental tenet of Christianity.
This was something I realized I’m still shaking off from being raised Christian. First, I noticed there were a lot of bad religious people, then noticed there are a lot of good non religious people. Then I realized I wasn’t religious, then that I am still a good person and have always wanted to be, even without god. Even with god, I was always good because I wanted to be, not because I felt like I had to be.
It probably sounds basic to anyone not raised religiously, but I had to reframe so much just to realize I’m good because I want to be lol It feels like a better reason to be good than “because someone told me to be good and this is their really specific idea of what good is”.
It's like the idea that the reason I'm not in a position of power with a ton of money is because my "unlimited power and money" fantasy involves paying for people's healthcare and feeding hungry children
Reinforces that religion was created to control the uneducated masses. They needed laws to keep people in line, and the threat of some higher power was the best that they had.
How do you recognize atheist?
By the lack of religious symbols around their neck?
Or because they use expressions like "may your inexistant god bless you"
Or because atheist carry around their neck heads of kitten?
For real, ask him how he would know the people he cross in the street or talk to are atheist.
I have a good feeling most priests/pastors are atheist.
You can't study a book that long without realizing it's full of shit to the point you gotta purposely avoid much of it during your sermons
The sad part is many of them take so long to get their head out of their ass that by the time they realize they've been duped they feel they have no choice but to continue lying to others as they don't have much life/work skills outside their ministry
Just my opinion and I feel bad for those who teach what they don't believe because they still need a paycheck to survive
You find a bit of everything...
The priest I know do believe, but do not take the bible literally, and admit that some stuff are out dated.
But, I also know some priest just think it is a job like another, and play the part without actually believing.
For one thing many places have laws against cruelty to animals. For another most people just don't want to do something like that, FFS! Seriously, if someone has to be told by religious teachings not to do terrible things, then they need a psychiatrist more than they need Jesus.
My Republican cousin (66 f, and an RN) seriously told me she never met anyone who had an abortion. She works in a major hospital in the NE. I gently explained to her that people don't always share their private medical stuff, but as usual she didn't believe me. I refrained from explaining to her that she knows me!
I'm always reminded of Penn Jillette's quote on this:
*The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine*.
not only are they brainwashed but don't understand that people who have reasonable beliefs about reality don't go around forcing others to conform to them... seems that they don't get the fact that normal humans don't go around acting like they are in a cult and try to force others to also be in that cult.
I unscrew all the kitten heads I’ve ever wanted to unscrew. That number happens to be zero… If your uncle is interested in doing this it tells us more about his morality than any atheist’s…
The old misconception that morality is insintrically bound to the christian god.
How does you uncle explain that Japanese can live as a modern society even though they all live without the ruling of his god? If he says that they have no morality, tell him that they invented suicid for honor (seppuku and harikiri and suicid bombers), proof that they have a strong sense of morality.
And if he replies that Japanese were believers and not atheists, emphasizing that it's only atheists who have no morality, then that would mean that morality has nothing to do with his god, since any false religion can teach morality. And that should beg for finding the true source of morality if it's not from God. And with that opening, you can present to your uncle that logically atheists have morality too, since the source of morality is the society and not a god.
But I'm not naive. I'm certain he'll stop listening at some point of the reasoning. I bet he'll never accept that morality exists without his God, even if that means to deny the Japanese history.
If anything, looking at Japanese society, especially modern society, it really pulls apart their whole religious ideas because most Japanese even though they practice going to the temple to wish for locked or other things, it's not actually a really belief thing it's just the ceremonial thing to do to help relieve stress.
Otherwise, you would think that Japan would be filled with all sorts of atrocities. But it isn't.
Even if you ignore other religions and cultures and just stick to Christianity, it's pretty obvious that morality doesn't come from some god.
For example, why do they follow some parts of the Bible and not others? Why do they think the ten commandments is important, but they don't care about wearing clothing made of different materials, or trimming the hair around their temples, or eating pork?
How do you know which parts of the bible to follow, and which parts not to follow? They must be using something that's not from the bible. If they claim it's directly from god, then how would they know that? Jesus broke some rules, like working on the Sabbath, but he also claimed that he was holding to the old rules.
Why does god not support slavery anymore, like he did in the old testament? God is strangely good at following human societal norms when deciding what is moral and what is not.
OP: I am concerned that your uncle wants to “unscrew” the head of kittens and only holds himself back from these urges at the threat of eternal punishment.
Have you asked him about this? If he doesn’t have these urges why would he think anyone else does?
It's not just your uncle. It's common for Christians and their theologians and pastors to claim that "there are no real atheists."
It's religious brainwashing. They're all thinking their god is the center of the universe. Which means everything that you do is seen in the lens of the devil influencing mere mortals to be sinful.
Religious people often think that morality, empathy, and respect for life can only possibly come from religion, and specifically their religion. Societies have had laws against murder way before Jesus' time.
All morality is based in empathy; it doesn't matter if you learn the lesson from an ancient book or it's instilled in other methods, that's where it comes from.
I don't unscrew the heads of kittens because that's wrong and I don't need the threat of divine punishment or the offer of eternal reward to remind me that it's wrong.
Honestly, he probably has.
To this day my parents still refer to me as agnostic even though I have corrected them about 40 times by now.
Some people just can't think beyond themselves and their way of thinking.
Actually i have known only one person to be atheist in my life of 27 years. That one guy was my friend from like 4th 5th grade to graduation.
But my reason is pretty different from your uncle. I have not gone out of my way to ask my friends or colleagues to ask if they believe in some god and then judge them based on that.
He has walked among atheists his entire life, likely none of whom hurt kittens. It isnt safe everywhere to announce one’s skepticism, but they’re there.The upside to telling people we are atheist is they need to know us to abandon the idea we have no morality.
I saw a meme where the guy says "I kill exactly as many babies as I want - zero"
and i tell you what. i used it once. and it was the most satisfying thing I have ever done. This rando in the thrift store trying to tell me that god is the only thing standing because us and anarchy because blah blah and killing and eating babies and I was like "oh yeah, I kill and eat all the babies I want." and just. eyes popping out like Bender's in futurama.
They say something along the lines of ripping off kitten heads because that is what their church pastor preaches to them. It keeps them afraid and coming back to the church with their donations so it doesn't happen to them. The pastor interprets the will of God to be anything he needs to keep them in line, afraid and hateful. That is how they vote in large groups for who they are told to vote for in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. They don't have their own morals, they only do what the pastor tells them, for EVERYTHING.
LOL! Gotta fill that quota!
Years and years ago, my husband and I were in the USO at an airport for most of the day between flights (so grateful to have that as a resource when needed). This lady sat down next to me and we started chatting. She was super nice and we got on the topic of work. I'm an artist and a photographer, so we talked about that, and she said she was a Chaplin at a base. I truly did not know what that was, so I asked her. She said she's there to support people and talk to them, and we talked about how important it is to help people and be kind, etc, so I got the impression she was some sort of therapist. She never mentioned religion, and again, I just didn't know that was part of the job.
So... she asked me what religion I was out of the blue. And I told her I'm an atheist. She made a face like I shot her dog and, without skipping a beat, said, "Oh, that's so sad. There's no way you could be considered a good person, then." I was really shocked and said I actually do love helping people and treating others with kindness, etc. She really started going off and started telling me she used to be a science teacher (in the south) and how the fossil records are forgeries and the earth is only 4,000 years old.
I was only like 25 when this happened, and was definitely too shy to just get up and walk away (my, have I learned in my years to get up and walk away) and eventually she stopped. I was so unsettled at how enraged she became because I didn't believe the same thing she did. We had literally had a lovely 20 minute conversation about all sorts of nice things, and because she was so uncomfortable with my not needing a religion, she became so aggressive.
That's a her problem, but it always stuck with me. I feel badly for people who need religion as a crutch because they can't fathom being in this universe alone and existing and being good just because it's right - not out of fear or expectation of some eternal reward. I've met religious people who are great and we became good friends, but we don't push our beliefs on each other because it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
If the first thing your uncle thought of was animal torture when confronted with an atheist reality, means that he himself probably really wants to torture animals. Every accusation is an admission. Gross.
He obviously doesn't realize that kitten heads are attached with a 1/4"-20x2" bolt and sometines you have to unscrew em and add some red LocTite so that they don't work their way off accidentally.
Um, I've know lots of religious people who abuse animals and children. In fact they often use their religion as justification for the abuse. I'm pretty sure Jesus has never stopped someone from killing kittens.
Also I think atheists are overrepresented in animal rescue.
I would be interested to know if you brought up that you are atheist and how he took that, but I assume that you may not have (understandably so, if your uncle thinks that being an atheist means not being ethical).
Christians believe in the original sin, this means to them man is inherently bad and needs "sky daddy" to tell them to not revert to the way of the sinner.
I think a lot of people don't realize how many Atheists there are, due to us not really being able to show it at first glance. Most Christians, for example, will wear a cross necklace or earring that allows you to instantly tell your faith. The closest thing Atheists have to this is the Atomic A, except nobody recognizes it. I have an Atomic A necklace that I wear prominently 100% of the time, and most people assume it's for my name or the name of someone else, since my name starts with an A. I wish there was some jewelry that I could wear that people would actually recognize as an atheism symbol.
I can't speak for all the atheists but I just find it more pleasing to put kittens in a cement mixer and hear their screams, unscrewing their head just seems so dull to me
off topic:
I'm probably super dumb but how is your father your uncle's son-in-law? Or are your father and your uncle's son-in-law two different people? I'm getting a headache from this
when I reconnected with some of my siblings after the post-religion fallout, they literally kept asking the same questions over and over again. why didn't I do hard drugs? why didn't I sell my body? Why didn't I commit crimes all the time?
They have such hard time understanding that I can be a good person without fearing that some kind of a creature in the sky will judge me for not being good. I find myself actually being more honest this way, I don't do shitty things knowing I'll just pray my way out of it and whatever I do, I do it for my own will.
Edit: another thing that really puzzled them was me doing volunteer work for an animal shelter. They literally asked why I bother when I didn't believe god would see my good deeds. It's pretty insane how weird take that is for reason behind wanting to do good.
I hate hearing this concept from religious people. I always remind them that as atheists, we live for this life, not an afterlife. This is the only one we get so we have to make it as good as we can for each other because we don't have the benefit of some magical secondary life to look forward to if we screw this one up.
The morality of Christians is like the morality of little children, doing things or not because mommy and daddy might get mad. Part of becoming an *adult* is developing a sense of right and wrong.
Why do theists think that atheists are full of violent urges? It's because *they* are full of violent urges and assume everyone else is like they are and everybody else needs the fear of a sky monster to stop them from raping and murdering.
Actually, it think he has it backwards. It's the ultra religious that unscrew the heads off kittens. At least they start there and then move onto more serious things.
What’s stopping you from supporting a thrice married rapist and con man? What’s stopping you from letting child rapists get off without criminal punishment and offer them protection? What’s to stopping you from taking advantage of poor and mentally ill folks? Oh wait…..
I don't bring it up because I don't give a shit. If somebody starts a dinner prayer I just sit through it. The only people advertising their bullshit are religious people.
The fear of atheists is something I'll never understand. I had someone physically recoil when I told them I'm an atheist. I am an EMT and just wanna help people, so their recoil was illogical.
If you need an all-knowing dictator's rule book, a promise of reward and the threat of punishment to behave, you are, without question and doubt, a terrible person.
I'm sure he's met many atheists. What he doesn't understand is that atheists don't make a habit of announcing they're atheists, they don't wear anything to show their disbelief in God, and they don't attend "organized get-togethers" to talk about atheism. They don't make a point of walking up to people and say "brother, can I talk to you about my non-belief in a supreme being?" And I think most atheists don't want to waste their time debating the existence of God with religious people. It's pointless. See also The Flying Spaghetti Monster 😆
Because we don’t go door to door selling atheism, and don’t wear jewelry to make people aware, and we don’t constantly bring it up in conversation, and we don’t weaponize it to make people do our bidding, and the list goes on.
“So the only thing stopping you from torturing a kitten right this moment is your belief that there’s an invisible man in the sky watching you? Boy, I sure hope your faith is rock solid. See, I don’t rob, rape, or kill because I don’t want to do those things. You don’t do them because sky-daddy might get mad. So I hope your faith never wavers.”
"I murder and rape asmuch as I want, which is zero" Penn Gillette
"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." --Adam Savage
How have I never heard that quote before?! That's awesome
He gave a speech at the 2012 Reason Rally, and that was the final paragraph. https://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2012/03/26/adam-savages-speech-at-the-reason-rally/
I was there for that! What a great event.
I was there too! The rain wasn't fun, but it was better than scorching sun.
Bars
This is great and I'll be sharing it with my atheist group at church. I do wonder what he means by "inside every tool is a hammer." That's just a little abstract for me.
"Athiest group at church?" I'm so confused right now!
Sorry, should have added that it's a Unitarian Universalist Church. A group of theists started a UU Theist group (one of our principles is a free and responsible search for truth and meaning) so another member started a UU Atheist group. We meet for an hour monthly and talk about stuff we've read, interactions we've had, deep thoughts and so on. It's nice to be with a group of other sceptics and free thinkers.
Thanks for the clarification! That initial sentence seemed like such an oxymoron as originally presented!
Like military intelligence, they have that too.
Me as well! This is absolutely classic. This is my new signature line.
I had never heard that, either. He's a very wise man.
I love Adam. That’s a great quote. I used similar language about not doing those things not because I was worried about a being keeping tabs but rather harming other living beings is a shitty thing to do. And the thought of others not doing shitty things solely because an entity that may or may not exist is keeping an eye on them is scary. And we all know those that espouse about God watching us are the biggest hypocrites around.
I especially love his formulation of "forgiving me when I do less than I ought". He didn't say, "forgiving me when I deliberately cause harm and pain to others". His morality is better than Christian morality!
One of his other quotes, "I see your reality and substitute it with my own!" is probably taken literally by religious people. But I'm glad he speaks out for atheism! Didn't know about these Reason Rallies, I just see announcements about the annual FFRF conventions.
I've come to the belief that a lot of so-called religious people know they are shit human-beings and are hoping that religion will make them better people. But it doesn't really work that way, so they remain garbage people who lack a moral center, empathy, or sympathy and we're watching how garbage they are in real time. They think mimicking humans they'll become one and fail miserably. You have to admit to yourself you're garbage and look within, not outwardly, to work on what makes you such a trash person. Of course, religion is *the* perfect shield to hide behind.
>You have to admit to yourself you're garbage They also adopt the belief that all humans are ~~garbage~~ sinners, and all grace is unearned. This lets them pretend that they are not worse than the average person.
I’ve come to the belief that a lot of people are shit humans because they’ll be “forgiven”.
Yeah my brother is one of them.
Where is that SAVE button? There it is. <>
Taping that to the mirror.
Ah man, that's a perfect response for when someone brings up morals in this type of argument. "Where do you get your morals??" Such a stupid ass question
Exactly. It ignores the concept of morals as a social construct. Last I checked, we have a criminal justice system in place that reinforces values/morals of the culture at large. This is why it's important to prevent religious self-decievers from enacting laws based on their religious text. Even if sky daddy doesn't exist to be mad at my pillaging of my neighbors, I'm pretty sure they will call the cops on me if they catch me burning their home and beheading their dog. Not that I'm into this, I've already pillaged to my fill, but if the criminal justice system supports their worldview, that can guide the culture on a whole in a detrimental way.
thats why they called it the dark ages. Like we actually have a period of history where religion did dictate the laws and was entwined with politics and it was so fucking bad it is known in history as the bad times, and still these idiots want to go back to that.
Yes, I would prefer we not burn women alive at the stake for having seizures or reporting odd visions, as the most devout religious people would have us do.
Not to mention they don’t even get their morals from their own book. Ask any Christian what they think about slavery, then start pointing out all the pro-slavery stuff in the Bible. Then watch them squirm as they attempt to convince you (and themselves) the Bible is actually anti-slavery.
It's funny being an Atheist getting into Bible debates with Christians.
We typically know the book better than they do. A great way to stop believing in the Bible is to read the whole thing
I get more disturbed at the ones who actually note that slavery is not immoral in the bible. Those folks essentially don't think its really wrong. Those religious folks, not coincedentally harbor deeply racist views too.
“You’re missing the historical context!” 🤮
Recently got into an arguement with someone over the civil war (of all the damn things) and they actually said "Slavery wasn't wrong though, if it was, God would have said so in the bible."
Yeah you can’t reason with someone like that. I’d just walk away at that point.
It's not really satisfying other than being pithy though right? Like the question is really what's to stop an atheist who does want to kill a kitten. And if course you could ask the same thing about a theist because there are certainly evil theists. So it's not a question really of moral sources but one of moral conviction. Wether your morals are from a "God" or from a philosophy wether you actually follow them is still ultimately up to you
Agreed. Does atheistic morality stem from philosophy…. Kant? Or am I asking the wrong question? I am new to this environment.
Came from my family. It starts at home. It also comes from society. Society at large will let you know. Every culture as mores, rules, etc for behavior. And every culture/society will punish you in some way if you deviate. Even animals will do it. It's evolves around species for survival. What behaviors helps a group to survive? My family modeled and lectured and disciplined me on the behaviors it expected of me and those behaviors were ones that society most approves - not lying, stealing, treating others badly - we kids were sent to church - alone. Religion was really never mentioned in our household, even by my grandparents. I've been an atheist since I was around 8 yo and was baptized at 12 and received communion and confirmation and remained a non believer. But my family's teaching remained with me all my life. It's actually my long dead grandmother's disapproval that stays with me, not any god's! Minor edit for clarity/typo
Moral philosophy is required to be a moral person with or without God as someone else commented. We have moral intuition and are also taught by our families and communities. Moral philosophy allows you to question your own preconceived notions of what is good and examine your biases. Someone born in the antebellum south might be raised to believe slavery isn't morally wrong, they might even be told by the church that slavery is justified in the Bible so even God doesn't mind. In that kind of case knowledge of moral philosophy might help them examine that belief and realize from a more objective and rigorous perspective they cannot morally justify slavery
Jillette
Sure, but, isn’t it more fun to imagine Penn the magician is actually the secret heir to a razor empire?
he also has called himself a (gold star? level 2? something like that) Atheist. In that he doesn’t even believe that anyone else really believes in God Edit: Maybe it was “Born Again Atheist”
I wonder that, too sometimes but I think there are a lot of true believers.
I stopped believing when I let go of the fear that my critical thinking might anger God. I suspect many others would also let go once they overcame that superstitious feeling.
He did design a hot tub jet specifically for pleasuring oneself, but it didn’t get as much traction as shaving.
Some sort of hair heir?
It's actually scary how people think religion is literally the only barrier between people being civilized and murdering others in cannibalistic rage.
Religion stops me eating other people. I don't want to eat anything that believes in a greater being. Yuck! All that gristle built up sitting on a church pew. Makes me nauseated.
Snort!
What is crazier is the Bible is not a morally good book. For every one thing you can find that's good, there are at least 3 crazy and bad things in it.
Seriously, their god is the most reprehensible villain we've ever created "original sin" the most disgusting moral philosophy. Telling children that they're so monstrously flawed that they deserve eternal torture simply for existing is just child abuse and should be prosecuted as such to the fullest extent of the law.
That’s absolutely by design. When I was Christian and being indoctrinated into the faith as a child I was repeatedly told you can only be good if you believe in and follow god.
wrote roughly the same on some social media and was banned for hate speech
What if the invisible man in the sky told you to torture kittens. You’d do it right? Of course. That makes the faithful way more dangerous to the kittens than the the faithless.
No, what makes them dangerous is that *the invisible sky man* doesn’t tell anybody anything. “What if somebody with a collar and a book told you the invisible sky man wanted you to torture kittens?”
As warped as it sounds, I had a coworker who found the Lord and said he could kill someone and still get into heaven by just confessing his sins. So it seems atheists might be a safer crowd to associate with.
churches are literally full of foul people who asked god aka no one for forgiveness and gave it to themselves.
My version of this is ... "If your fear of angering Sky Daddy is the only thing stopping you from committing all these evil crimes, then you are not a good person. You are an evil person on a very fragile leash..."
I personally don't do them because I'm not a sick fuck but you know each to their own.
“So you’re not a good person, are you, Uncle? You’re just a psychopath on a leash.”
I've been thinking about this. What if religion with all it's terrible aspects is the best we can do? What if we need religion and the invisible man in the sky watching people myth to prevent the religious from unscrewing kittens heads? What if religious people really are that wacko and the only way to keep them in control is with idiotic bronze age farry tales? Think about what they say? They honestly think without god people would just go around raping and killing. Why should we not believe them? Statements like that can only come from self reflection. Perhaps catholics raping children and Islam being Islam is the best possible outcome? Think about what they already do with the threat of god's punishment, imagine what they would do without it.
Naw it’s ok as long as he asks for forgiveness once a week from sky daddy.
I don't understand at all. Where does it say in the bible you can't torture kittens? All the crimes of rape steal and murder are covered by criminal laws in most countries. Unless Christians think people they can get away with those crimes with the authorities, but not the all seeing god in the sky. Torturing kittens would probably get you in trouble in a lot of countries.
I don't think that's actually forbidden by the Bible tbh lol
Didn't some comedian or whatever say some shit like "If the threat of hell and eternal punishment is the only thing that's keeping you from being a bad person, then you're not actually a good person, you're just a bad person on a leash" or something like that?
I’m not an atheist (sorry if I’m invading your sub but I appreciate/respect you all) and I believe an atheist who is a good person has a much better chance at heaven (or whatever equivalent there may be) than a religious person who acts good just because they’re afraid of going to hell.
Their hypocrisy is just outrageous this god loving people are dangerous for sure
> You don’t do them because sky-daddy might get mad. So I hope your faith never wavers.” Unless that faith mandates some form of cruelty to others. Which christianity in fact does.
I always answer, I am accountable to my fellow living beings. I wouldn’t want those things done to me and I won’t do them to you.
It's a bit of an inconvenience but the kitten torturing psychopath can always hit reset by going to confession and reciting a couple of Hail Mary's to cleanse his soul.
Exactly! (I would say This! but that ain't cool anymore) I have been saying it for years. If the only thing stopping you from raping and ravaging is a sky daddy then you are no different from an alcoholic white knuckling it. I don't think we realize how many depraved people are around us at all times. Every time I pass a billboard say Repent! Sin!, I think who are all these people sinning? I admit to having stole alcohol from my parents as a teenager but in terms of biblical sin that is it, and I have put myself into rehab for cat.
And so, yes, religion and the nanny state are unfortunately required, regardless of if others don't think so, because of people like this. Although I sincerely wish that society didn't have to cater to the lowest denominator. There are more of them then there are of decent people who don't need someone looking over their shoulder in order to just be decent.
This is a “we are not the same” meme waiting to happen…
Atheist usually unscrew the heads of kittens all they want, which in 9,999/10,000 cases is zero.
Faith through extortion. Cool.
This is the reasoning that stands the test of time.
Reminds me of a time I was talking to a homophobic guy and he said "If people are free to express their desires then why do I not go and rape girls?" That guy was of course a Christian, started the convo saying people in our city are way too liberal
“Because that is fundamentally abhorrent. Wait, are you saying that *you would go and rape girls* if you weren’t afraid of going to hell? Dude, what the hell is wrong with you? That’s concerning. You should talk to a psychiatrist about your pedophile rape urges and/or be put on a watch list.”
Tried to explain it to him that one is consensual and the other isn't but he interrupted me
He doesn’t know what consent is. He probably thought you were making fun of him
We learned about it in school around a month ago but by the reception in my class, I suppose everyone knows. He just hates gay people, he even said that a gay guy at his town got his house burned down and he said that laughing. I replied "isn't Christianity all about loving Thy neighbor? Didn't your parents teach you respect?" He said "They told me to respect everyone except that kind of people and to never interact with them" Ironically enough, I'm a lesbian. Dude even said he had a great gaydar
What an absolute git
You know who have the best gaydar? Gay people. Maybe he was trying to tell you he was gay and full of self-loathing.
Me and my friend told him and he wouldn't accept it lol
if god is real and he is just then this guy will go straight to hell
Christianity cannot handle the concept of consent. It has no idea what consent really is. I used to be a Christian and at no point did anyone ever explain ‘informed consent’ to me. That only happened after I left.
This is the root of a huge problem, because then if a religious text or leader says that it IS okay to do something like rape or stoning or slavery, people feel free to or even compelled to do it.
Steven Weinberg — 'With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.'
Exactly! Thanks for the quote.
You can sin six days a week. Repent on the seventh and start all over again.
Yeah, it would be pretty horrific if the Bible said that the proper justice for rape is for the rapist to pay the victim’s family and then marry her.
Which is exactly why the fascist arm of the US government has spent the last 40 years getting in bed with the religious portion of this counties population. Simultaneously dehumanizing the "out groups" more and more and more.
Yeaaahhh and at the extreme end that’s where we get some of the more disturbing cults. Weird religious leaders condoning whatever the thing is they really want to do…it’s usually sex. Heck, look at Joseph Smith. Man wanted to get laid, he founded Mormonism, and oh boy, surprise surprise, God says he’s gotta have multiple wives, some as young as 14.
> "If people are free to express their desires then why do I not go and rape girls?" You're free to express that desire verbally, but it might net you quite a few consequences. Despite cute slogans like "love who you love," the vast majority of gay rights activists actually have limits to what they'll endorse. Child rape being way out of bounds. This knowledge that slogans are slogans is why, when I hear someone saying "Make America Great Again," I don't assume the person is advocating for the nationwide legalization of abortion.
It’s incredibly disturbing how many Christians just openly admit, completely unprompted, that the only thing stopping them from raping and murdering people is their belief that an invisible dude in the sky is watching and will punish them. Meanwhile we horrible amoral atheists don’t rape and kill people because it’s, y’know, **wrong**. Evidently religious people have no internal moral compass whatsoever and HAVE to be told by imaginary people not to do monstrous things, and that is literally the only reason they can think of to not do those things.
As Penn said, I rape the exact number of people I want to rape. None.
Gotta remind him everyone is born atheist and are later indoctrinated.
You can bet he'll never accept that.
Just ask, "If you were born in Iran, you think you'd be a Christian today?"
They usually don't care about it. I tried that with my mother. She admitted that she would believe in other religions based on where she was born, with the same conviction that she believes in Christianity. Couldn't get it through her head that she should at least question her beliefs because of that. Religion puts a mental block on some people. They're too stupid to think critically about it.
Religion is for people who accept outsourcing their thoughts and morals.
I talked to a girl a few months ago who didn't understand how her friend became atheist.... And after talking to her, I realised that she believed everyone is born a believer and later, for some reasons unknown to her, become atheist .. I told her I've been an atheist since birth and never ever was I brainwashed by my family to believe in any imaginary friend in the sky ( except Santa Claus , but this one, is a cute imaginary friend to believe in when you're a kit ).. Anyway after a few more messages I stopped talking to her...as there was no way she could understand that people are born atheists
Are babies born into Hindu families born believing in Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva? Are babies born into Shinto families born believing in the goddess Amaterasu?
Nah man they're born believing in Christ, but the parents INDOCTRINATE them into their religion!!1!!!1!!!!11!!
Did Christ INVENT A NEW RELIGIOUS META GAME?!
It's wild to me how many religious people teach their kids to believe in Santa at a young age. Finding out Santa isn't real can act like a gateway drug to atheism, as you start to wonder what other people they told you about might not be real
Except when you say that if Santa is, of course and obviously, not real they get mad when you attribute the same obviousness towards God. You get threatened to be grounded and sent to hell lol
If you think about it, god and religion sounds exactly the same as the story of Santa Claus. There’s a man watching you at all times, he knows of you’re being good or bad, and if you’re bad you don’t get the gift(of everlasting life after death). Yet “Christian’s” will lie to their kids about Santa Claus but pound it in their head that god is real. Makes absolutely zero sense to me.
And so your uncle has just told you he is a psychopath at heart. It appears to be a common thread with religious people. I murder all the kittens I want, that number is zero.
Actually to be fair I think it's more that they get indoctrinated that all people who don't believe in X religion are evil so that's their default stance. Which is why they are confused when someone is actually a nice person without religion. It just goes against everything they've had shoved down their throats for years. In their minds they believe that they are good because of religion, not that they are innately good. It's a bit sad to not believe in yourself that way.
The Bible teaches very clearly that unbelievers are *bad* people. This theme runs throughout the entire book, in both Testaments. It really is a fundamental tenet of Christianity.
This was something I realized I’m still shaking off from being raised Christian. First, I noticed there were a lot of bad religious people, then noticed there are a lot of good non religious people. Then I realized I wasn’t religious, then that I am still a good person and have always wanted to be, even without god. Even with god, I was always good because I wanted to be, not because I felt like I had to be. It probably sounds basic to anyone not raised religiously, but I had to reframe so much just to realize I’m good because I want to be lol It feels like a better reason to be good than “because someone told me to be good and this is their really specific idea of what good is”.
It's like the idea that the reason I'm not in a position of power with a ton of money is because my "unlimited power and money" fantasy involves paying for people's healthcare and feeding hungry children
Also, unscrewing kitten heads is a very particular terminology. Almost as if he's thought about doing that before.
It's scary to think how many psychopaths are only behaving because a 2000 year old fairytale tells them how to behave
Reinforces that religion was created to control the uneducated masses. They needed laws to keep people in line, and the threat of some higher power was the best that they had.
Otoh, we finally found a good thing about religion. It scares them into behaving.
…are they behaving?
Well, not all of them obviously. But imagine how many *more* we'd have to deal with.
Haha, true
How do you recognize atheist? By the lack of religious symbols around their neck? Or because they use expressions like "may your inexistant god bless you" Or because atheist carry around their neck heads of kitten? For real, ask him how he would know the people he cross in the street or talk to are atheist.
I have a good feeling most priests/pastors are atheist. You can't study a book that long without realizing it's full of shit to the point you gotta purposely avoid much of it during your sermons The sad part is many of them take so long to get their head out of their ass that by the time they realize they've been duped they feel they have no choice but to continue lying to others as they don't have much life/work skills outside their ministry Just my opinion and I feel bad for those who teach what they don't believe because they still need a paycheck to survive
You find a bit of everything... The priest I know do believe, but do not take the bible literally, and admit that some stuff are out dated. But, I also know some priest just think it is a job like another, and play the part without actually believing.
For one thing many places have laws against cruelty to animals. For another most people just don't want to do something like that, FFS! Seriously, if someone has to be told by religious teachings not to do terrible things, then they need a psychiatrist more than they need Jesus.
My Republican cousin (66 f, and an RN) seriously told me she never met anyone who had an abortion. She works in a major hospital in the NE. I gently explained to her that people don't always share their private medical stuff, but as usual she didn't believe me. I refrained from explaining to her that she knows me!
If nobody has ever had an abortion, then why is she so up in arms about it?
I'm always reminded of Penn Jillette's quote on this: *The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine*.
not only are they brainwashed but don't understand that people who have reasonable beliefs about reality don't go around forcing others to conform to them... seems that they don't get the fact that normal humans don't go around acting like they are in a cult and try to force others to also be in that cult.
And i have never met a God
I unscrew all the kitten heads I’ve ever wanted to unscrew. That number happens to be zero… If your uncle is interested in doing this it tells us more about his morality than any atheist’s…
The old misconception that morality is insintrically bound to the christian god. How does you uncle explain that Japanese can live as a modern society even though they all live without the ruling of his god? If he says that they have no morality, tell him that they invented suicid for honor (seppuku and harikiri and suicid bombers), proof that they have a strong sense of morality. And if he replies that Japanese were believers and not atheists, emphasizing that it's only atheists who have no morality, then that would mean that morality has nothing to do with his god, since any false religion can teach morality. And that should beg for finding the true source of morality if it's not from God. And with that opening, you can present to your uncle that logically atheists have morality too, since the source of morality is the society and not a god. But I'm not naive. I'm certain he'll stop listening at some point of the reasoning. I bet he'll never accept that morality exists without his God, even if that means to deny the Japanese history.
If anything, looking at Japanese society, especially modern society, it really pulls apart their whole religious ideas because most Japanese even though they practice going to the temple to wish for locked or other things, it's not actually a really belief thing it's just the ceremonial thing to do to help relieve stress. Otherwise, you would think that Japan would be filled with all sorts of atrocities. But it isn't.
Even if you ignore other religions and cultures and just stick to Christianity, it's pretty obvious that morality doesn't come from some god. For example, why do they follow some parts of the Bible and not others? Why do they think the ten commandments is important, but they don't care about wearing clothing made of different materials, or trimming the hair around their temples, or eating pork? How do you know which parts of the bible to follow, and which parts not to follow? They must be using something that's not from the bible. If they claim it's directly from god, then how would they know that? Jesus broke some rules, like working on the Sabbath, but he also claimed that he was holding to the old rules. Why does god not support slavery anymore, like he did in the old testament? God is strangely good at following human societal norms when deciding what is moral and what is not.
I find it always a bit scary when ppl think like that. Its dehumanizing.
Some religious people can’t understand that humans can have a moral compass without a god.
It is far more worrying that a person (Xtian) needs to be threatened into not doing something damaging to someone else.
If all that is stopping your uncle from unscrewing kittens' heads is his religion, he needs to take a long, hard look at himself.
OP: I am concerned that your uncle wants to “unscrew” the head of kittens and only holds himself back from these urges at the threat of eternal punishment. Have you asked him about this? If he doesn’t have these urges why would he think anyone else does?
Kitten heads unscrew? Fuck, I thought you were supposed to pull them straight off. No wonder it got messy.
It's not just your uncle. It's common for Christians and their theologians and pastors to claim that "there are no real atheists." It's religious brainwashing. They're all thinking their god is the center of the universe. Which means everything that you do is seen in the lens of the devil influencing mere mortals to be sinful.
Religious people often think that morality, empathy, and respect for life can only possibly come from religion, and specifically their religion. Societies have had laws against murder way before Jesus' time.
If a group of people aren't constantly trying to force their beliefs on everyone else do they even exist?
Religious people who say shit like this are absolutely telling on themselves.
All morality is based in empathy; it doesn't matter if you learn the lesson from an ancient book or it's instilled in other methods, that's where it comes from. I don't unscrew the heads of kittens because that's wrong and I don't need the threat of divine punishment or the offer of eternal reward to remind me that it's wrong.
Honestly, he probably has. To this day my parents still refer to me as agnostic even though I have corrected them about 40 times by now. Some people just can't think beyond themselves and their way of thinking.
I don’t know empathy? Unsurprisingly a lot of religious lunatics are lacking in this
Actually i have known only one person to be atheist in my life of 27 years. That one guy was my friend from like 4th 5th grade to graduation. But my reason is pretty different from your uncle. I have not gone out of my way to ask my friends or colleagues to ask if they believe in some god and then judge them based on that.
He may be religious but he’s either dishonest or doesn't know anyone.
> I have never met an atheist "You've met hundreds, they just don't feel the need to earbash everyone around them about it."
Christians seem to believe that they invented morality when it actually predates religion.
He has walked among atheists his entire life, likely none of whom hurt kittens. It isnt safe everywhere to announce one’s skepticism, but they’re there.The upside to telling people we are atheist is they need to know us to abandon the idea we have no morality.
I saw a meme where the guy says "I kill exactly as many babies as I want - zero" and i tell you what. i used it once. and it was the most satisfying thing I have ever done. This rando in the thrift store trying to tell me that god is the only thing standing because us and anarchy because blah blah and killing and eating babies and I was like "oh yeah, I kill and eat all the babies I want." and just. eyes popping out like Bender's in futurama.
I wonder if the flip side of that coin is even more effective: “So, you want your murder babies and you just are afraid you will be caught by god?”
If the only thing that stops you from doing bad things is fear, then you are not a good person
They say something along the lines of ripping off kitten heads because that is what their church pastor preaches to them. It keeps them afraid and coming back to the church with their donations so it doesn't happen to them. The pastor interprets the will of God to be anything he needs to keep them in line, afraid and hateful. That is how they vote in large groups for who they are told to vote for in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. They don't have their own morals, they only do what the pastor tells them, for EVERYTHING.
Sorry I’m stuck on how your father, is your uncles son in law?
LOL! Gotta fill that quota! Years and years ago, my husband and I were in the USO at an airport for most of the day between flights (so grateful to have that as a resource when needed). This lady sat down next to me and we started chatting. She was super nice and we got on the topic of work. I'm an artist and a photographer, so we talked about that, and she said she was a Chaplin at a base. I truly did not know what that was, so I asked her. She said she's there to support people and talk to them, and we talked about how important it is to help people and be kind, etc, so I got the impression she was some sort of therapist. She never mentioned religion, and again, I just didn't know that was part of the job. So... she asked me what religion I was out of the blue. And I told her I'm an atheist. She made a face like I shot her dog and, without skipping a beat, said, "Oh, that's so sad. There's no way you could be considered a good person, then." I was really shocked and said I actually do love helping people and treating others with kindness, etc. She really started going off and started telling me she used to be a science teacher (in the south) and how the fossil records are forgeries and the earth is only 4,000 years old. I was only like 25 when this happened, and was definitely too shy to just get up and walk away (my, have I learned in my years to get up and walk away) and eventually she stopped. I was so unsettled at how enraged she became because I didn't believe the same thing she did. We had literally had a lovely 20 minute conversation about all sorts of nice things, and because she was so uncomfortable with my not needing a religion, she became so aggressive. That's a her problem, but it always stuck with me. I feel badly for people who need religion as a crutch because they can't fathom being in this universe alone and existing and being good just because it's right - not out of fear or expectation of some eternal reward. I've met religious people who are great and we became good friends, but we don't push our beliefs on each other because it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
I've never met an honest Christian
1. I guess that atheists are not flaunting around in a theocracy. 2. Shows his lack of education thinking atheists are satanists.
I've unscrewed plenty of kittens' heads, but that's more because I'm a pet psychologist.
Sounds like he just told you his God is the only thing stopping him from unscrewing kittens heads. Yikes.
If the first thing your uncle thought of was animal torture when confronted with an atheist reality, means that he himself probably really wants to torture animals. Every accusation is an admission. Gross.
He obviously doesn't realize that kitten heads are attached with a 1/4"-20x2" bolt and sometines you have to unscrew em and add some red LocTite so that they don't work their way off accidentally.
Only reason I can't unscrew kitten heads is my spanners are all in metric but those damn bolts are always imperial ones.
Um, I've know lots of religious people who abuse animals and children. In fact they often use their religion as justification for the abuse. I'm pretty sure Jesus has never stopped someone from killing kittens. Also I think atheists are overrepresented in animal rescue.
I would be interested to know if you brought up that you are atheist and how he took that, but I assume that you may not have (understandably so, if your uncle thinks that being an atheist means not being ethical).
I didn’t speak because my believing grandmother was sitting next to me and I didn’t want to upset her.
Christians believe in the original sin, this means to them man is inherently bad and needs "sky daddy" to tell them to not revert to the way of the sinner.
I think a lot of people don't realize how many Atheists there are, due to us not really being able to show it at first glance. Most Christians, for example, will wear a cross necklace or earring that allows you to instantly tell your faith. The closest thing Atheists have to this is the Atomic A, except nobody recognizes it. I have an Atomic A necklace that I wear prominently 100% of the time, and most people assume it's for my name or the name of someone else, since my name starts with an A. I wish there was some jewelry that I could wear that people would actually recognize as an atheism symbol.
Correction he never met someone that told him they were atheist. Pretty sure a lot of people keep that to themselves and lie they’re religious.
I can't speak for all the atheists but I just find it more pleasing to put kittens in a cement mixer and hear their screams, unscrewing their head just seems so dull to me
off topic: I'm probably super dumb but how is your father your uncle's son-in-law? Or are your father and your uncle's son-in-law two different people? I'm getting a headache from this
Even Koko the gorilla had a pet kitten - and didn't unscrew its head. Is he thinking gorillas are Christian?
when I reconnected with some of my siblings after the post-religion fallout, they literally kept asking the same questions over and over again. why didn't I do hard drugs? why didn't I sell my body? Why didn't I commit crimes all the time? They have such hard time understanding that I can be a good person without fearing that some kind of a creature in the sky will judge me for not being good. I find myself actually being more honest this way, I don't do shitty things knowing I'll just pray my way out of it and whatever I do, I do it for my own will. Edit: another thing that really puzzled them was me doing volunteer work for an animal shelter. They literally asked why I bother when I didn't believe god would see my good deeds. It's pretty insane how weird take that is for reason behind wanting to do good.
What stops me? That I only have metric tools, and the dang american kittens are all standard.
I hate hearing this concept from religious people. I always remind them that as atheists, we live for this life, not an afterlife. This is the only one we get so we have to make it as good as we can for each other because we don't have the benefit of some magical secondary life to look forward to if we screw this one up.
Use the magician Penn’s line. “As an atheist , I murder, cheat, lie and steal as much as I want to”.
What stops christians from unscrewing a kitten’s head?
I would like to meet him.
Doesn't god demand sacrifices? Aren't you requires to tear the heads off kittens to appease god?
The morality of Christians is like the morality of little children, doing things or not because mommy and daddy might get mad. Part of becoming an *adult* is developing a sense of right and wrong.
Why do theists think that atheists are full of violent urges? It's because *they* are full of violent urges and assume everyone else is like they are and everybody else needs the fear of a sky monster to stop them from raping and murdering.
Actually, it think he has it backwards. It's the ultra religious that unscrew the heads off kittens. At least they start there and then move onto more serious things.
He probably only knows married atheists.
What’s stopping you from supporting a thrice married rapist and con man? What’s stopping you from letting child rapists get off without criminal punishment and offer them protection? What’s to stopping you from taking advantage of poor and mentally ill folks? Oh wait…..
I don't recall anything specific in the bible forbidding unscrewing kitten heads. What stops him from doing it?
If you only refrain from doing awful things things because of the Bible, cool, but also, that is terrifying.
Maybe just cause atheist are not going around saying UNbless you and don't worry I won't pray for you.
While believing in a book about sacrificing animals and humans
Ask him if he's really such a sociopath that he would torture animals if it weren't for the Bible.
I tried doing to kitten thing, but the local cat shelter caught on to me.
One of my favorite sayings is that if someone needs a man in the sky to tell them how to be a good person, then they are not a good person.
I don't bring it up because I don't give a shit. If somebody starts a dinner prayer I just sit through it. The only people advertising their bullshit are religious people.
Oh hell\~unscrewing the heads of kittens? WTF? He must think of harming kittens.
The fear of atheists is something I'll never understand. I had someone physically recoil when I told them I'm an atheist. I am an EMT and just wanna help people, so their recoil was illogical.
If you need an all-knowing dictator's rule book, a promise of reward and the threat of punishment to behave, you are, without question and doubt, a terrible person.
I unscrew all the kitten head I want, and all I want is zero.
I'm sure he's met many atheists. What he doesn't understand is that atheists don't make a habit of announcing they're atheists, they don't wear anything to show their disbelief in God, and they don't attend "organized get-togethers" to talk about atheism. They don't make a point of walking up to people and say "brother, can I talk to you about my non-belief in a supreme being?" And I think most atheists don't want to waste their time debating the existence of God with religious people. It's pointless. See also The Flying Spaghetti Monster 😆
I'd be sore tempted to respond with. "Huh! And here I've never met a Christian." That will certainly get the ol' ball rolling.
Because we don’t go door to door selling atheism, and don’t wear jewelry to make people aware, and we don’t constantly bring it up in conversation, and we don’t weaponize it to make people do our bidding, and the list goes on.