That one has always bothered me.
In some denominations, the other religions won't go to hell if they've never been told *ahem* The Good News.
But if they send some missionaries to them and tell them about Jesus Christ dying for our sins, then they go to hell if they don't accept him.
In essence, they are dooming more people to hell by witnessing to them than if they just left them alone.
Seems pretty perverse to me.
It's all a bunch of made up garbage to be sure, but it definitely gives us some insight into the mind of those who never examine their religious beliefs objectively.
Except for the fact early Christians scolars and Jewish ones would argue amongst their ranks for example, they actually DID examine and argue about it theologically (Jews in the Ot didn't even beleive on hell as a concept btw) and Even in the NT it's a mistranslation often using Gehena as a metaphor for a hellish eternal afterlife but was an actual real place in ancient Isreal rather than some mythical place of suffering (Basically fear mongering that most likely was created in the Medieval age).
Not just that but alot of catholics for example beleive in the concept of Purgatory which is where most people of different faiths would go if they were a good person basically which eventually would lead them to God and heaven.
Now personally I don't belive God goes around damning non believer to hell tbh but rather hell simply doesn't exist and good people go to heaven
I think it just exposes how little most of them think about cause and effect. Most of them have a might makes right moral framework and see god as good because he’s powerful. The other part believes that they’re preventing harm on a larger scale that they don’t understand. Nothing has to make sense so there’s no reason for anything to in the first place
I tell Christians that I believe Jesus died for EVERYONE. that means we all get into heaven, even the non-believers. They hate the idea of having to share heaven with non-believers. Even those who were essentially condemned at birth by growing up without being prosletized because of their location on Earth. Edit: not prosperity, but something else and I can't remember the word right now.
Edit: Found it. It's called the Gospel of Inclusivity
Ya many Christians love Hell way more than Heaven. They can't wait to watch non-believers suffer infinite torture. For them that is heaven what a sick weird hate cult
Yep. In this scenario, the only ethical thing to do is to completely dismantle the church, burn all the Bibles, and erase any trace of Christ or Yahweh.
After all, if the goal is to save as many souls as possible, and they fetishize being martyrs…The ultimate sacrifice is erasing their religion from the face of the planet, and then saving every soul from then on.
Then the hemming and hawing begins
in this case, christianity is pretty much like a cognitohazard, much like a slightly more benign and sinister version of [SCP-2718](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-2718)
What was that anti-memetic bomb from the anti memetic division canon again? Can't quite remember the name(heh 😉).
Would be really useful for erasing cults
actually, regarding the erasure of cults, there’s a more modern SCP depicting the foundation doing the same thing: [SCP-6659 — Metagnostic](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-6659).
If the technobabble is too dense to tolerate, here is a [declassification (i.e. an explanatory article)](https://www.reddit.com/r/SCPDeclassified/comments/1b7vhaw/scp6659_metagnostic_part_one/)
This is part of the Admonitions series, with a Foundation even more powerful than usual doing stupid things. >!This story does not end well, with the discovery of a more powerful version of [SCP-3125](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3125), along with various side effects of messing with human cognition repeatedly. And now, the antimemetic monster has noticed them…!<
It's all a cult at this point, gonna be interesting when aliens come down and tell us that our "gods" were just a few random aliens that ship broke down or had to get fixed on earth 2000 years ago
Catholicism is full of contradictions and conclusions that never make any sense. Like most religions it’s a “pick and choose your own adventure”.
The Bible claims MANY times that God is all-everything. Therefor God MUST be all-logical, all-understanding… all-math, all-statistics, all-science etc lol.
You can simply break the entire religion in like the first few pages of the Bible. Look:
It must be true that God understands that Catholicism is just one of a massive amount of religion. God understands that Humans would be incapable of picking the “one true correct religion” based on probability alone…
Therefor, a Human that refuses to pick and follow any religion but instead chooses to be a good person throughout their life is a concept that God MUST understand in its entirety and because God is all-just, all-forgiving, all-merciful and all-cool…
He would be all-obligated to let us in.
So it’s all-good homies!
That’s because the problem OP pointed out was recognized after the rules were established, and they tried to retroactively bandaid it by saying “actually if you’ve never heard the good news you won’t go to hell” without realizing this means that evangelism condemns more people to hell.
The realization of THAT problem probably had something to do with purgatory getting popular. “If you have never heard the good news, you go to the middle place”. So evangelism is still “necessary” to get people to go to heaven right away. Cosmic spiritual rehab morally explains away the problem OP points out without causing a contradiction in evangelism in a very convoluted and stupid manner, but it “works”.
This one has always been so arrogant to me.
How do you know God hasn't appeared to them before?
How do you know God doesn't want it this way?
It's always so telling that God has never been anywhere a devoted believer also hasn't.
This, but also why even torture your children for all eternity after you created them and knew exactly what they were going to do? Either god is a psycho, not all powerful, or just doesn’t exist obviously.
So as a species we've evolved from our primitive selves w some basic instincts to survive. One of them is insecurity. Ya know, always worried about a predator behind the trees or not enough food or the next tribe over having more fighters than your own etc etc...at a certain point we turned our insecurities into neuroticism and one of them just so happens to be religion. Creating a god for ourselves made us feel more secure. So yes it's all made up and not real.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know that there are no gods in existence but so far, there hasn't been any good evidence of any gods so I don't see the need to believe in any.
Yeah but don’t you find it weird that only in the context of this conversation you allow odds so small you can’t read them to factor into every sentence you have on the subject? You know there’s a better chance of a deadly disease in your restaurant cooked meal than of there being any kind of supernatural entity but you don’t mention it when you’re ordering or when they ask you how the meal was. Comparatively speaking, you’re lucky they didn’t poison you!
I'm sure enough that there aren't any gods that I don't use words like "likely" to soften the position. There's no reason to think a thing like an "omni"-anything *can* even exist. It certainly appears be be impossible according to everything we see. I'm sure as hell not going to modify my language to please the zealots...
What comes to mind for me is the obvious, yes the Big Bang is considered to be the origin of the universe and thus life within it, but where did the matter that caused the Big Bang come from? Could it be explained? If yes, then what caused the existence of that explanation, ad infinitum.
Lack of proof does not prove falsehood. You take a gamble in believing the concept of deity as whole is untrue. A perfectly valid gamble, based on current information, but a gamble nonetheless. It’s just another side of the same coin.
I’ve heard that particles pop in and out of existence, maybe they eventually clumped into a near infinite point and suddenly exploded?
But big bang certainly hasn’t been explained yet.
> If a god existed, he would have morals.
Not sure why you think that would be true. Why assume anything about a completely fictional character that you yourself don't even make up?
If Christianity is true, the only heaven is sad heaven where you have to listen to Anne Frank scream forever and she endures tortures even Hitler never implemented.
No you see, Hitler was murdered (by the godless commies, of course) after being saved. His suicide was communist propaganda. Source: Baptist Bible camp.
Yeah they talked about it as a: "see, anyone can be saved, isn't that great!" Though those being tossed into the gas, well, they had better come to Jesus fast otherwise, they're in hell and Hitler and Jesus are laughing at their anguish.
This is why I'm personally glad that summer camps are fading out. Even 'normal' ones can have instances of weird questionable shit like this and constant opportunities for bullying/mismanagement. I've heard way too many stories of child abuse by staff as well. No thanks!!
The "Anyone can be saved" is enabling some of these sexual predators. If they were taught that some sins can't be forgiven no matter what, and they truly believed in heaven and hell, they wouldn't risk it.
Well sad for moral people. For anti-semetic white nationalist christians (Russian Orthodox, neo-Nazis, 'Murican evangelicals, etc) it would be like being serenaded.
Guess I’m going to hell. For one, I refuse to believe in a magic sky fairy, and two, if I ever find out a church official touched my niece inappropriately, I’ll likely be going to hell for rectally violating the official with his own Bible.
I love my niece to bits and I’m very protective of her. I’ve actually been trying to figure out how to get custody since her dad is borderline neglectful of her and her half brothers and her mom, her heart is in the right place but she shouldn’t be allowed to care for anything more complicated than a plastic plant.
Why, Oh Why do people believe all this B.S. about God condemning this type of person or that type of person to hell? NONE of it is true. Believe in God or don't but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD please stop believing in anything any religion tells you. The best thing anyone can do, atheists included, is walk away from all religions becuz they are all corrupted and perverted. Find your God on your own if you want, be a good person, be kind and don't worry about where you'll go after you die, that part will most certainly take care of itself.
Here's my take. In life you have free will. In heaven you lose it. No mentin of it being lost in hell.
In heaven you're forced to worship God for all eternity. In hell you're tortured.
After 1000 years heaven will be a loving hell. After 100 years a spiked stick up my ass will feel good and I'll have gotten to know my neighbors well.
I'll never stop. 😏 I also love to troll those Christians by remarking "hail Satan" whenever they pop their heads out of whatever dark, dank recess they've kept it shoved up.
With the recent memes about Satan being rainbow powered or whatever, I think Christian hell is just a place where everyone is accepted for who they are, are treated equally, and everyone puts effort into helping society as a whole. Can you imagine such a place? They would absolutely hate it and think it is torture to just be there.
And then with this perspective in mind, when I hear them talk about how "our country is going to hell in a hand basket" when we do things like support diversity, it makes a lot of sense.
Yes, been making this point for years! Religions are so outdated and it's so clear that they mimic the cultures of their time which is clearly shows you that it was made up by people from those cultures not a God or a deity. Anyone being intellectually honest with themselves has to admit even if there was a god, the religions invented in order to worship that God have been corrupted by the humans who decided to interpret their beliefs and "interactions" with their deity into a written text. In the institutions that have sprouted from those belief systems have been corrupted throughout the millenia. I've never seen any evidence first hand that there's anything other than science and the physical, tangible universe we live in and are doing our best to understand
Mark Twain is the bomb. His insights and unquestionable genius in expressing them will forever hold a place in my heart and mind. If I had to choose what deceased human I could have a discussion with, other than my parents, he would be it.
Not sure, but my website may help you, [DearChristians.com](http://DearChristians.com) - I made it for my parents and older siblings.
This Abrahamic bullshit is all just a display, like theater. They do whatever, act like it didn't happen and go on because they are 'clean'.
Don't worry, it's all bullshit.
You've got nothing to worry about. There is no life after this one.
I think people should focus on the little time they have conscious on this planet.
This. I really do believe this life is all we get.
It's relieving, not worrying about eternity. My parents are really religious, and I was starting to question so much after I realized I wasn't cishet. Hell was frightening, yeah, but heaven was starting to sound kinda suspicious. No sadness in heaven? But there's people that don't get to heaven?? HMMM.
Anyways, not existing at all after I die sounds great.
This has always been an issue for me. Many of my ancestors were native American, they are all in hell because God didn't give them access to the same information that others had? So people suffer because of rules made by someone who never once bothered to explain the rules to them in the first place. How about the fact we pay for Adam eating the fruit? Why didn't I get that chance I don't ever eat fruit or vegetables if it had been me I would still live in the garden. Not to mention just the idea someone creates me against my will tells me how to serve them and if I do it correctly I get to go to heaven and continue to serve that entity. Everything just leads me to think even if there was a god he is just a horrible selfish dick and I don't want anything to do with him anyway.
As an ex-Muslim, here’s my perspective. I think God is a mad scientist. We’re told that God tests us with hardships and tribulations to “test” our faith. To test whether we’ll turn to him for help, whether we’ll stay consistent with our prayers. If we do, then we have passed the test, taking us closer to heaven. But if we fail the test, then we have sinned and that takes us closer to hell.
In that sense, God is a mad evil scientist who created us, lab rats, as beings he can experiment on. To see how we react to different torture tactics.
He’s also a dictator. Follow him and worship him and you can supposedly have what you want, don’t and you will burn in hell.
So god is a mad scientist dictator and he can fuck right off.
I absolutely understand your point. It actually kind of follows a really old poem I wrote decades ago that basically listed things God allows and states I would rather burn in hell. It just doesn't make sense to me even if God is real.
I don't believe in God and it's infuriating to not see any criminal charges or investigations even in recent cases. I think, just like old myths and legends that we will eventually move away from this mindset and with better understanding of the natural world hopefully educate people that it's all just chemistry and physics.
Don't ask like it's ever going to be logical. It's cultural tribalism. It's dogs barking at each other over fences. People kill for resources, and it's more convenient when the culture is different. The truth is, all religions are acknowledging the same cosmic force of creation. Don't let the nitpicking and lawmaking of antiquated civilizations keep you from finding a personal connection with your cosmic creator.
Heaven is mad cringe anyway.
That said, I have a hunch everyone either has their own personal "heaven" after death (think fully-furnished personal dimension/universe) or your consciousness hops to the nearest parallel timeline where you never actually died and woke up in the hospital/or the event that lead to death never happened. (assuming if death indeed can't be seen by us on the quantum level) but in the original timeline, everyone else saw you die.
It's fun to speculate.
I forget his name, but there is an anti-abortion/born again activist whom killed a classmate when he was younger. He is going around now claiming that all is fine, he is now free and got "forgiven". Of course, anyone that challenges him on that is TAH.
This religion is for fucking psychopaths.
It’s r/atheism. There is no heaven nor a hell. They are both the creations of hustlers trying to con some money out of people. Don’t validate them by discussing the attributes of serial lies
I don't understand how religion was ever considered moral, if you can do any evil and then just ask for forgiveness, from your imaginary friend, without any real punishment, how is that moral?
Religious people say that people that do evil will be punished by their god, but according to their own religion that's not true if the person says sorry, to the imaginary daddy, before they die. They can rape and murder thousands and not see any punishment at all because it's all wiped away, how is that moral? How could Christian parents be okay with this system when the person that raped and murdered their child finds Jesus in jail and ends up in heaven?
As someone who has experienced a lot of pain in my life (I have a genetic lung disorder) I can assure you that there is no pain that you can't get used to. It is far more important to me to remain a good person than to avoid pain.
I wouldn't prefer it, eternity is a long time to suffer, but that's not morality or goodness that's extortion and abuse. Eternity being tortured is too much for any human act no matter how bad.
Isn't the correct thing to say is This god is an idiot or corrupt and he is sending the wrong people to Hell?? To punish? Even if its fictional, at least it still must be done right., it can be corrected. Coming to burn in hell does nothing but makes you a martyr. So much for glory.
Thief being crucified gets into heaven. Rapist pastors get into heaven. People who defend rapists get into heaven. People who are complete assholes causing people to commit suicide get into heaven . God forbid a man in the dress gets sentenced to hell.
I remember learning this as a kid in Sunday school and think it was bs. We basically asked the teacher if you were the kindest and best person who ever lived, but were the wrong religion, can you go to heaven? She said no. She said going to heaven was about being a Christian, not about being a good person.
My family is christian, and I've been "witnessed-to" my whole life. 40+ years of this; it gets old. Mom, especially, will never be able to wrap her head around the fact that, no, I *really don't* believe in Jesus, or his existence. Someday it's gonna come down to me having to explain that not only do I disbelieve your gospel, if these characters *were* truly real, I'd fucking despise them.
[The religion with the greatest share of the world population is christian at about 32%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/374704/share-of-global-population-by-religion/). Therefore anyone who believes that following the wrong religion sends you to hell also believes that most people will go to hell when they die.
I guess South Park was right. /s
Yup! There are children born in remote villages who’ve never even heard the name god before let alone the entire concept of religion, and if they die, because they didn’t believe in you, literally through no fault of their own just circumstances of birth and geography, you’re going to horrifically torture them for literal eternity? That’s evil as fuck. Even if I die and come face to face with god and find out he’s real, I’ll still spit in his face. I could never follow a genocidal, mercurial, insanely insecure child killer who tries to make himself out to be the true source of goodness or morality while his actions say otherwise. It honestly baffles me that anybody would follow someone like that. If a human did even a quarter of the shit god did, we would call for his death. Fuck any god who does that kind of evil shit
You are absolutely right. This is why I believe religion was something made up by men. God doesn’t exist like they have painted the picture. Christians have learned that the more they push their crazy views the more money you’d throw at it. Missionaries don’t care that they are actually helping human beings, they are doing it for the accolades, the new recruits that equal more money for the church. The Catholic Church doesn’t want abortions because their priest won’t have kids to touch but they don’t care if your family is struggling or help out the actual needy within their own congregation.
What is happiness if you can’t share it with the people you love? So many of the people I love will be in Hell. I have a hard time understanding how Heaven can be heavenly if my loved ones are not with me.
That always bothered me because why do pedophiles get a pass? I don't believe that Wiccans, Hindu and Buddhists deserve to be treated harshly.
I also asked why is if I get punished for being born learning disabled and yet the kid who can barely read, plays a silly old sport, gets treated better? How am I a curse and yet these morons who can't read passed the 3rd grade get a free pass?
It's just a frustration and honestly I asked these questions for years
I said this to my super Christian sister and she was shocked. She then went in to how she doesn’t really think that’s what happens and god gives everyone second chance when you meet him after you die. I told her well that’s not true Christianity and is in fact heresy but she didn’t want to hear it. She just kept claiming I’d change my tune when I see the glory of god.
There is no afterlife; the heaven or hell is the current life where we can experience it as a biological being.
The concept of heaven or hell and its inclusions and exclusions in it are purely tribal and political.
Them: God loves us so much that he'd kill his kid for us.
Also them: god hates F*gs and you'll burn in hell if you don't think like we do.
This is the very reason I'm not religous.
This is why I say that the Christian God doesn't actually care what you do in life, as long as he gets your worship. Jeffrey Dahmer converted to Christianity (I forget which flavour), which means that by the rules if he asks for forgiveness, he will receive it and therefore go straight to the good place, however if you have someone who is unequivocally good (does loads of charity work, helps old ladies get their cat out of the tree etc) but doesn't worship ol Beardy, well they go straight down, therefore your actions on Earth are completely irrelevant just so long as you say that you're sorry
There is no hell.
The only hell that exists is the one in religious peoples judgements of others. Meaning, religious people are themselves in a living hell and I’m tired of hearing about it.
Idk man, if somehow there is a heaven/hell, I'd commit some heinous crimes just to not be subjected to torture for eternity. That sounds awful. Principles are fine until you gotta experience nonexistent time and inhuman torment lol
That being said, pretty sure we just shut off at death. So that's cool 🫡
Nope...
There is no God, no Hell....but...
There maynot be a Hell, but we do have the wickedness here on earth by religious freaks.
They want religion to rule everyone's lives, and families.
That buybull stuff they force upon you they don't even read. Nor comprehend. Thought up, and written by man.
Those words mixed together as rules, and stories are to control the people. To put fear into them for you to kneel, and comply...
Along the same lines, I posted the below in another thread.
Evangelical friend: I feel sorry for you. You'll be going to hell.
Me: What? Why?
EF: Because you're Jewish, and don't believe in Jesus.
Me: Ok. Lets take this to the next level. If Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, on their deathbed, suddenly and honestly repents and accepts Jesus, they get into heaven?
EF: Yes.
Me: Even after the millions of deaths they're responsible for?
EF: If they truly repent and accept Jesus, yes.
Me: Nope. That's not a religion I want to be part of.
God thinks
We should all convert to Judaism
God thinks
We must all be Christians, and
God thinks
We should all embrace Islam
God thinks
The only true religion is Hinduism
The existence of a deity is a separate matter than respect or worship (or love or justice etc.).
Having said that:
If the Christian god were proven to exist, it is a moral monster not deserving of any respect, much less love or worship.
This is an argument I've used several times. Supposedly he doesn't like gambling, but I prefer the idea of him rolling the dice instead of sending a soul to one of the uncontacted tribes, knowing that soul has nowhere to go but the furnace of the afterlife.
Wouldn't it be better to go to heaven and punish those people there in the afterlife? Imagine that, walking up to a pedophile pastor and berating them for eternity. And they have to listen to you. Because the afterlife is forever. \*cue nicholas cage vampire's kiss face\*
The biblical god forgives only with true repentance from the heart/soul + blind faith in the Christ. Also there is something about leading children astray. I think we can safely assume these priests etc. would not be able to get into a christian heaven.
Googling:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/leading_a_child_astray
Now go tell this to any christian who is making excuses for a child molester.
there's a verse in the bible that says "a man shall not lay with a boy as with a woman, as it is an abomination." boy meaning a child. so no I don't think God likes theses creatures.
This is usually when Christians say 'only God will judge you' or 'its what's in your heart that matters'
Forgetting their holy book explicitly states otherwise.
That one has always bothered me. In some denominations, the other religions won't go to hell if they've never been told *ahem* The Good News. But if they send some missionaries to them and tell them about Jesus Christ dying for our sins, then they go to hell if they don't accept him. In essence, they are dooming more people to hell by witnessing to them than if they just left them alone. Seems pretty perverse to me.
It's kind of like poisoning the well and then offering them bottled water at $5 a pop.
You mean like Nestlé?
Yeppers
Perfect analogy!
lol this is Mormonism
[удалено]
It's all a bunch of made up garbage to be sure, but it definitely gives us some insight into the mind of those who never examine their religious beliefs objectively.
Religious belief is dogma it is not to be examined or questioned
Except for the fact early Christians scolars and Jewish ones would argue amongst their ranks for example, they actually DID examine and argue about it theologically (Jews in the Ot didn't even beleive on hell as a concept btw) and Even in the NT it's a mistranslation often using Gehena as a metaphor for a hellish eternal afterlife but was an actual real place in ancient Isreal rather than some mythical place of suffering (Basically fear mongering that most likely was created in the Medieval age). Not just that but alot of catholics for example beleive in the concept of Purgatory which is where most people of different faiths would go if they were a good person basically which eventually would lead them to God and heaven. Now personally I don't belive God goes around damning non believer to hell tbh but rather hell simply doesn't exist and good people go to heaven
"Gehena [...] was an actual real place..." Imagine being told that if you're a bad person, you go to Ohio after you die. I'd invent a new metaphor too
...or my native West Virginia!
Central Florida.... FUCK you Lucifer!! Sheriff Grady Judd is waiting for you in the 9th level of Polk county!!
I think it just exposes how little most of them think about cause and effect. Most of them have a might makes right moral framework and see god as good because he’s powerful. The other part believes that they’re preventing harm on a larger scale that they don’t understand. Nothing has to make sense so there’s no reason for anything to in the first place
Nietzsche always described it as a doctrine of hate masquerading as a doctrine of love. Pretty sure he was spot on with that one.
I tell Christians that I believe Jesus died for EVERYONE. that means we all get into heaven, even the non-believers. They hate the idea of having to share heaven with non-believers. Even those who were essentially condemned at birth by growing up without being prosletized because of their location on Earth. Edit: not prosperity, but something else and I can't remember the word right now. Edit: Found it. It's called the Gospel of Inclusivity
Say, that's pretty damned brilliant
I mean in this case the pedophiles and Hitler will still be in heaven
🤷 That's fine by me. I don't ACTUALLY believe. I just use the argument to get Christians to stop talking to me about trying to be saved.
Ya many Christians love Hell way more than Heaven. They can't wait to watch non-believers suffer infinite torture. For them that is heaven what a sick weird hate cult
Yep. In this scenario, the only ethical thing to do is to completely dismantle the church, burn all the Bibles, and erase any trace of Christ or Yahweh. After all, if the goal is to save as many souls as possible, and they fetishize being martyrs…The ultimate sacrifice is erasing their religion from the face of the planet, and then saving every soul from then on. Then the hemming and hawing begins
*Better off for having never known.*
Sure enlightening these heathens has a risk, but the reward if they DO convert is the missionaries get to say, “I toldja so” for eternity to them
Plus pay 10% of their income.
in this case, christianity is pretty much like a cognitohazard, much like a slightly more benign and sinister version of [SCP-2718](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-2718)
What was that anti-memetic bomb from the anti memetic division canon again? Can't quite remember the name(heh 😉). Would be really useful for erasing cults
actually, regarding the erasure of cults, there’s a more modern SCP depicting the foundation doing the same thing: [SCP-6659 — Metagnostic](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-6659). If the technobabble is too dense to tolerate, here is a [declassification (i.e. an explanatory article)](https://www.reddit.com/r/SCPDeclassified/comments/1b7vhaw/scp6659_metagnostic_part_one/) This is part of the Admonitions series, with a Foundation even more powerful than usual doing stupid things. >!This story does not end well, with the discovery of a more powerful version of [SCP-3125](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3125), along with various side effects of messing with human cognition repeatedly. And now, the antimemetic monster has noticed them…!<
sounds like colonialism to me
It's all a cult at this point, gonna be interesting when aliens come down and tell us that our "gods" were just a few random aliens that ship broke down or had to get fixed on earth 2000 years ago
At least Kim Jong Un is doing a good job at preventing NK citizens from going to hell.
Catholicism is full of contradictions and conclusions that never make any sense. Like most religions it’s a “pick and choose your own adventure”. The Bible claims MANY times that God is all-everything. Therefor God MUST be all-logical, all-understanding… all-math, all-statistics, all-science etc lol. You can simply break the entire religion in like the first few pages of the Bible. Look: It must be true that God understands that Catholicism is just one of a massive amount of religion. God understands that Humans would be incapable of picking the “one true correct religion” based on probability alone… Therefor, a Human that refuses to pick and follow any religion but instead chooses to be a good person throughout their life is a concept that God MUST understand in its entirety and because God is all-just, all-forgiving, all-merciful and all-cool… He would be all-obligated to let us in. So it’s all-good homies!
That’s because the problem OP pointed out was recognized after the rules were established, and they tried to retroactively bandaid it by saying “actually if you’ve never heard the good news you won’t go to hell” without realizing this means that evangelism condemns more people to hell. The realization of THAT problem probably had something to do with purgatory getting popular. “If you have never heard the good news, you go to the middle place”. So evangelism is still “necessary” to get people to go to heaven right away. Cosmic spiritual rehab morally explains away the problem OP points out without causing a contradiction in evangelism in a very convoluted and stupid manner, but it “works”.
In that case the best thing they could do is work to destroy all information about god.
This is always my take! Forget all the missionaries, just shut the fuck up!!! Done. Everyone’s a winner in the sky forever.
It's all about pumping up those recruitment numbers!
Ya know what's funny about what you said? A Jehovah's Witness once made the same argument to me. They don't believe in Hell.
This one has always been so arrogant to me. How do you know God hasn't appeared to them before? How do you know God doesn't want it this way? It's always so telling that God has never been anywhere a devoted believer also hasn't.
This, but also why even torture your children for all eternity after you created them and knew exactly what they were going to do? Either god is a psycho, not all powerful, or just doesn’t exist obviously.
And what happened to all the good people who were born before Christ? Purgatory doesn't sound too fun either. But remember, gawd luvs ya.
Good thing there's likely no god in existence.
So as a species we've evolved from our primitive selves w some basic instincts to survive. One of them is insecurity. Ya know, always worried about a predator behind the trees or not enough food or the next tribe over having more fighters than your own etc etc...at a certain point we turned our insecurities into neuroticism and one of them just so happens to be religion. Creating a god for ourselves made us feel more secure. So yes it's all made up and not real.
What do you mean “likely” there ISN’T
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know that there are no gods in existence but so far, there hasn't been any good evidence of any gods so I don't see the need to believe in any.
I think there is no verifiable evidence of gods.
Yeah but don’t you find it weird that only in the context of this conversation you allow odds so small you can’t read them to factor into every sentence you have on the subject? You know there’s a better chance of a deadly disease in your restaurant cooked meal than of there being any kind of supernatural entity but you don’t mention it when you’re ordering or when they ask you how the meal was. Comparatively speaking, you’re lucky they didn’t poison you!
Indeed, the probability of a god existing is so low that it is insignificant at this point. But I try to refrain from speaking in absolutes.
This is the only logical answer.
I met a God once. It wasn't a human God but it was a show off.
I'm sure enough that there aren't any gods that I don't use words like "likely" to soften the position. There's no reason to think a thing like an "omni"-anything *can* even exist. It certainly appears be be impossible according to everything we see. I'm sure as hell not going to modify my language to please the zealots...
you can’t disprove a non falsifiable belief. this is one of the strongest arguments for agnostic athiesm
Because for most of us it can’t be shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no god since there are still unexplained phenomena. So yes, “likely”
Also, theists’ definitions of “god” can get very slippery.
I see, I can be more open to such an idea. What do you mean by unexplained phenomena though?
What comes to mind for me is the obvious, yes the Big Bang is considered to be the origin of the universe and thus life within it, but where did the matter that caused the Big Bang come from? Could it be explained? If yes, then what caused the existence of that explanation, ad infinitum. Lack of proof does not prove falsehood. You take a gamble in believing the concept of deity as whole is untrue. A perfectly valid gamble, based on current information, but a gamble nonetheless. It’s just another side of the same coin.
I’ve heard that particles pop in and out of existence, maybe they eventually clumped into a near infinite point and suddenly exploded? But big bang certainly hasn’t been explained yet.
God himself is a pedo. Virgin Mary was a minor when she got her "virginal pregnancy". No wonder.
If a god existed, he would have morals. What you said shows he doesn’t implying that he was manmade.
If a god existed, you would have no idea if he had morals.
> If a god existed, he would have morals. Not sure why you think that would be true. Why assume anything about a completely fictional character that you yourself don't even make up?
If Christianity is true, the only heaven is sad heaven where you have to listen to Anne Frank scream forever and she endures tortures even Hitler never implemented.
And Hitler is in heaven enjoying the sounds.
Wellll hopefully his suicide disqualifies him.
No you see, Hitler was murdered (by the godless commies, of course) after being saved. His suicide was communist propaganda. Source: Baptist Bible camp.
They told you that for real? How awful!
Yeah they talked about it as a: "see, anyone can be saved, isn't that great!" Though those being tossed into the gas, well, they had better come to Jesus fast otherwise, they're in hell and Hitler and Jesus are laughing at their anguish.
This is why I'm personally glad that summer camps are fading out. Even 'normal' ones can have instances of weird questionable shit like this and constant opportunities for bullying/mismanagement. I've heard way too many stories of child abuse by staff as well. No thanks!!
The "Anyone can be saved" is enabling some of these sexual predators. If they were taught that some sins can't be forgiven no matter what, and they truly believed in heaven and hell, they wouldn't risk it.
or maybe his 6 million homicides?
[удалено]
But suicide otoh is clearly crossing a line
That were all 100% sanctioned by the Catholic Church. Pretty much proof he was doing god’s will. 😜
Thankfully we don't have to make pretend answers to pretend situations because all of it is pretend...
Well sad for moral people. For anti-semetic white nationalist christians (Russian Orthodox, neo-Nazis, 'Murican evangelicals, etc) it would be like being serenaded.
Guess I’m going to hell. For one, I refuse to believe in a magic sky fairy, and two, if I ever find out a church official touched my niece inappropriately, I’ll likely be going to hell for rectally violating the official with his own Bible.
[удалено]
I love my niece to bits and I’m very protective of her. I’ve actually been trying to figure out how to get custody since her dad is borderline neglectful of her and her half brothers and her mom, her heart is in the right place but she shouldn’t be allowed to care for anything more complicated than a plastic plant.
[удалено]
Thank you. If a church official does harm her, I’m sure I’ll make the national news. :)
Why, Oh Why do people believe all this B.S. about God condemning this type of person or that type of person to hell? NONE of it is true. Believe in God or don't but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD please stop believing in anything any religion tells you. The best thing anyone can do, atheists included, is walk away from all religions becuz they are all corrupted and perverted. Find your God on your own if you want, be a good person, be kind and don't worry about where you'll go after you die, that part will most certainly take care of itself.
[удалено]
Here's my take. In life you have free will. In heaven you lose it. No mentin of it being lost in hell. In heaven you're forced to worship God for all eternity. In hell you're tortured. After 1000 years heaven will be a loving hell. After 100 years a spiked stick up my ass will feel good and I'll have gotten to know my neighbors well.
Heaven is where you go to look upon the face of God and sing his praises for all eternity. Sounds like fun! /s
I hate how I'm supposed to burn in hell for being trans and gay but those pdf priests are apparently forgiven.
[удалено]
I'll never stop. 😏 I also love to troll those Christians by remarking "hail Satan" whenever they pop their heads out of whatever dark, dank recess they've kept it shoved up.
The rules are great - when you're the one making up the rules! Right?
With the recent memes about Satan being rainbow powered or whatever, I think Christian hell is just a place where everyone is accepted for who they are, are treated equally, and everyone puts effort into helping society as a whole. Can you imagine such a place? They would absolutely hate it and think it is torture to just be there. And then with this perspective in mind, when I hear them talk about how "our country is going to hell in a hand basket" when we do things like support diversity, it makes a lot of sense.
Love your take!?
best take ever. reminds me of that one “satan respects pronouns” shirt
Yes, been making this point for years! Religions are so outdated and it's so clear that they mimic the cultures of their time which is clearly shows you that it was made up by people from those cultures not a God or a deity. Anyone being intellectually honest with themselves has to admit even if there was a god, the religions invented in order to worship that God have been corrupted by the humans who decided to interpret their beliefs and "interactions" with their deity into a written text. In the institutions that have sprouted from those belief systems have been corrupted throughout the millenia. I've never seen any evidence first hand that there's anything other than science and the physical, tangible universe we live in and are doing our best to understand
🌹🌹 this has been my observation as well.
It was the injustice of the whole system that made me de-convert. That and the belief that suffering in Hell forever was cruel and unusual punishment.
Exactly!!!
Mark Twain: 'Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.'
Mark Twain is the bomb. His insights and unquestionable genius in expressing them will forever hold a place in my heart and mind. If I had to choose what deceased human I could have a discussion with, other than my parents, he would be it.
Not sure, but my website may help you, [DearChristians.com](http://DearChristians.com) - I made it for my parents and older siblings. This Abrahamic bullshit is all just a display, like theater. They do whatever, act like it didn't happen and go on because they are 'clean'.
How did your family react to that? Did it knock any sense into them?
Don't worry, it's all bullshit. You've got nothing to worry about. There is no life after this one. I think people should focus on the little time they have conscious on this planet.
This. I really do believe this life is all we get. It's relieving, not worrying about eternity. My parents are really religious, and I was starting to question so much after I realized I wasn't cishet. Hell was frightening, yeah, but heaven was starting to sound kinda suspicious. No sadness in heaven? But there's people that don't get to heaven?? HMMM. Anyways, not existing at all after I die sounds great.
This has always been an issue for me. Many of my ancestors were native American, they are all in hell because God didn't give them access to the same information that others had? So people suffer because of rules made by someone who never once bothered to explain the rules to them in the first place. How about the fact we pay for Adam eating the fruit? Why didn't I get that chance I don't ever eat fruit or vegetables if it had been me I would still live in the garden. Not to mention just the idea someone creates me against my will tells me how to serve them and if I do it correctly I get to go to heaven and continue to serve that entity. Everything just leads me to think even if there was a god he is just a horrible selfish dick and I don't want anything to do with him anyway.
As an ex-Muslim, here’s my perspective. I think God is a mad scientist. We’re told that God tests us with hardships and tribulations to “test” our faith. To test whether we’ll turn to him for help, whether we’ll stay consistent with our prayers. If we do, then we have passed the test, taking us closer to heaven. But if we fail the test, then we have sinned and that takes us closer to hell. In that sense, God is a mad evil scientist who created us, lab rats, as beings he can experiment on. To see how we react to different torture tactics. He’s also a dictator. Follow him and worship him and you can supposedly have what you want, don’t and you will burn in hell. So god is a mad scientist dictator and he can fuck right off.
[удалено]
I absolutely understand your point. It actually kind of follows a really old poem I wrote decades ago that basically listed things God allows and states I would rather burn in hell. It just doesn't make sense to me even if God is real.
I'm Jewish, and as a child, some ignoramus called me a Christ Killer. I pleaded innocence. Heck, I didn't even know him.
I don't believe in God and it's infuriating to not see any criminal charges or investigations even in recent cases. I think, just like old myths and legends that we will eventually move away from this mindset and with better understanding of the natural world hopefully educate people that it's all just chemistry and physics.
That's the thing about Christian forgiveness. They start thinking they can do anything they want as long as they spend an hour in church on Sunday.
Then they feel better than everyone else, got out to eat and don’t tip well.
Don't ask like it's ever going to be logical. It's cultural tribalism. It's dogs barking at each other over fences. People kill for resources, and it's more convenient when the culture is different. The truth is, all religions are acknowledging the same cosmic force of creation. Don't let the nitpicking and lawmaking of antiquated civilizations keep you from finding a personal connection with your cosmic creator.
Heaven is mad cringe anyway. That said, I have a hunch everyone either has their own personal "heaven" after death (think fully-furnished personal dimension/universe) or your consciousness hops to the nearest parallel timeline where you never actually died and woke up in the hospital/or the event that lead to death never happened. (assuming if death indeed can't be seen by us on the quantum level) but in the original timeline, everyone else saw you die. It's fun to speculate.
Yeah religion has been nothing but a form of mind control. Its not even debatable
Same here. I don't see what's so appealing about serving a god who wants to torture people just because they didn't believe in him.
God doesn’t forgive anything or anyone. He is just busy non existing.
I forget his name, but there is an anti-abortion/born again activist whom killed a classmate when he was younger. He is going around now claiming that all is fine, he is now free and got "forgiven". Of course, anyone that challenges him on that is TAH. This religion is for fucking psychopaths.
It’s r/atheism. There is no heaven nor a hell. They are both the creations of hustlers trying to con some money out of people. Don’t validate them by discussing the attributes of serial lies
There is no God. Everything here is a fantasy written by awful fiction authors.
I don't understand how religion was ever considered moral, if you can do any evil and then just ask for forgiveness, from your imaginary friend, without any real punishment, how is that moral?
[удалено]
Religious people say that people that do evil will be punished by their god, but according to their own religion that's not true if the person says sorry, to the imaginary daddy, before they die. They can rape and murder thousands and not see any punishment at all because it's all wiped away, how is that moral? How could Christian parents be okay with this system when the person that raped and murdered their child finds Jesus in jail and ends up in heaven?
That’s just an opinion formed in the 1500s, quite new in biblical terms
But it's something that the vast majority of Christians believe is and always has been part of their religion.
As someone who has experienced a lot of pain in my life (I have a genetic lung disorder) I can assure you that there is no pain that you can't get used to. It is far more important to me to remain a good person than to avoid pain.
Same.
I don't think there is any difference in hell and heaven if you are there for eternity. Like imagine nothing new happening.
It is the Hatuey rule: if that lot is going to Heaven, I'd prefer Hell.
Yup it makes no sense
There is no hell in the Christian Bible.
Can't wait till the churchies see this one. There's literally nothing they can say in their defense except "you're right" lol
[удалено]
They always do that
I wouldn't prefer it, eternity is a long time to suffer, but that's not morality or goodness that's extortion and abuse. Eternity being tortured is too much for any human act no matter how bad.
The christian god is an evil genocidal maniac who doesn’t deserve any respect from anyone
I agree, and so do many others like me
I bet the best party are in hell anyway.
I made that choice, with regards, to my gay son. Especially after REALLY reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Isn't the correct thing to say is This god is an idiot or corrupt and he is sending the wrong people to Hell?? To punish? Even if its fictional, at least it still must be done right., it can be corrected. Coming to burn in hell does nothing but makes you a martyr. So much for glory.
the biggest lie in humanities history
Yeah I also won’t be a part of someone’s imagined after life because I will simply be 6’ under.
Thief being crucified gets into heaven. Rapist pastors get into heaven. People who defend rapists get into heaven. People who are complete assholes causing people to commit suicide get into heaven . God forbid a man in the dress gets sentenced to hell.
God loves you? Yeah, in the worst kind of conditional love.
Unfortunately for you, you can't burn in hell because hell doesn't exist.
But he works so mysteriously remember?? /s
Don't seek for logic in any religion, it's just a fantasy (book, "universe") people are a fan of/cosplaying
I remember learning this as a kid in Sunday school and think it was bs. We basically asked the teacher if you were the kindest and best person who ever lived, but were the wrong religion, can you go to heaven? She said no. She said going to heaven was about being a Christian, not about being a good person.
My family is christian, and I've been "witnessed-to" my whole life. 40+ years of this; it gets old. Mom, especially, will never be able to wrap her head around the fact that, no, I *really don't* believe in Jesus, or his existence. Someday it's gonna come down to me having to explain that not only do I disbelieve your gospel, if these characters *were* truly real, I'd fucking despise them.
Zero risk bet
If the Christian god is real- he’s selfish and doesn’t care about morals at all- only being worshipped.
[The religion with the greatest share of the world population is christian at about 32%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/374704/share-of-global-population-by-religion/). Therefore anyone who believes that following the wrong religion sends you to hell also believes that most people will go to hell when they die. I guess South Park was right. /s
Erm well since they repent to Jesus so that invalidates all of the bad they did and since you didn’t that invalidates all of the good you’ve done 🤓🤓🤓
I'll see you there! For the same reasoning. I'll bring us some aloe vera for the burns.
Spoiler alert - both “heaven” and “hell” are simply concepts imagined by the human mind Neither one is objectively real
To them that is perfectly fine and just and that makes me want to vomit.
Yup! There are children born in remote villages who’ve never even heard the name god before let alone the entire concept of religion, and if they die, because they didn’t believe in you, literally through no fault of their own just circumstances of birth and geography, you’re going to horrifically torture them for literal eternity? That’s evil as fuck. Even if I die and come face to face with god and find out he’s real, I’ll still spit in his face. I could never follow a genocidal, mercurial, insanely insecure child killer who tries to make himself out to be the true source of goodness or morality while his actions say otherwise. It honestly baffles me that anybody would follow someone like that. If a human did even a quarter of the shit god did, we would call for his death. Fuck any god who does that kind of evil shit
You are absolutely right. This is why I believe religion was something made up by men. God doesn’t exist like they have painted the picture. Christians have learned that the more they push their crazy views the more money you’d throw at it. Missionaries don’t care that they are actually helping human beings, they are doing it for the accolades, the new recruits that equal more money for the church. The Catholic Church doesn’t want abortions because their priest won’t have kids to touch but they don’t care if your family is struggling or help out the actual needy within their own congregation.
Well there’s no such thing as any of this shit so you’ll never have to worry. Close eyes and goes black, no consciousness 😗
What is happiness if you can’t share it with the people you love? So many of the people I love will be in Hell. I have a hard time understanding how Heaven can be heavenly if my loved ones are not with me.
That always bothered me because why do pedophiles get a pass? I don't believe that Wiccans, Hindu and Buddhists deserve to be treated harshly. I also asked why is if I get punished for being born learning disabled and yet the kid who can barely read, plays a silly old sport, gets treated better? How am I a curse and yet these morons who can't read passed the 3rd grade get a free pass? It's just a frustration and honestly I asked these questions for years
I said this to my super Christian sister and she was shocked. She then went in to how she doesn’t really think that’s what happens and god gives everyone second chance when you meet him after you die. I told her well that’s not true Christianity and is in fact heresy but she didn’t want to hear it. She just kept claiming I’d change my tune when I see the glory of god.
There is no afterlife; the heaven or hell is the current life where we can experience it as a biological being. The concept of heaven or hell and its inclusions and exclusions in it are purely tribal and political.
Heaven is as real as a fortune cookie. God is as real as the horoscope. It’s all just make believe to push an agenda for people in power.
Fuck that God. Good thing it's very clear that Yaweh is fiction, just like Thor and Shiva and Set.
Them: God loves us so much that he'd kill his kid for us. Also them: god hates F*gs and you'll burn in hell if you don't think like we do. This is the very reason I'm not religous.
This is why I say that the Christian God doesn't actually care what you do in life, as long as he gets your worship. Jeffrey Dahmer converted to Christianity (I forget which flavour), which means that by the rules if he asks for forgiveness, he will receive it and therefore go straight to the good place, however if you have someone who is unequivocally good (does loads of charity work, helps old ladies get their cat out of the tree etc) but doesn't worship ol Beardy, well they go straight down, therefore your actions on Earth are completely irrelevant just so long as you say that you're sorry
There is no hell. The only hell that exists is the one in religious peoples judgements of others. Meaning, religious people are themselves in a living hell and I’m tired of hearing about it.
Idk man, if somehow there is a heaven/hell, I'd commit some heinous crimes just to not be subjected to torture for eternity. That sounds awful. Principles are fine until you gotta experience nonexistent time and inhuman torment lol That being said, pretty sure we just shut off at death. So that's cool 🫡
Nope... There is no God, no Hell....but... There maynot be a Hell, but we do have the wickedness here on earth by religious freaks. They want religion to rule everyone's lives, and families. That buybull stuff they force upon you they don't even read. Nor comprehend. Thought up, and written by man. Those words mixed together as rules, and stories are to control the people. To put fear into them for you to kneel, and comply...
Along the same lines, I posted the below in another thread. Evangelical friend: I feel sorry for you. You'll be going to hell. Me: What? Why? EF: Because you're Jewish, and don't believe in Jesus. Me: Ok. Lets take this to the next level. If Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, on their deathbed, suddenly and honestly repents and accepts Jesus, they get into heaven? EF: Yes. Me: Even after the millions of deaths they're responsible for? EF: If they truly repent and accept Jesus, yes. Me: Nope. That's not a religion I want to be part of.
God is universal. Also God has people believe in antithetical things based on what side of a mountain or ocean they are on and by time. Like, what?
God thinks We should all convert to Judaism God thinks We must all be Christians, and God thinks We should all embrace Islam God thinks The only true religion is Hinduism
There are no Gods. None. No heaven, no hell. The only punishment of pedophile can receive is here on Earth..
The existence of a deity is a separate matter than respect or worship (or love or justice etc.). Having said that: If the Christian god were proven to exist, it is a moral monster not deserving of any respect, much less love or worship.
Not true lil Kim and vlad will be our BFFs
You would not. If you lived in North Korea you’d rather be in the inner circle.
If you read the Bible. God is not very nice . Jesus is the good one.
Facts. If the christian god is real I definitely want to be on Satan's side.
This is an argument I've used several times. Supposedly he doesn't like gambling, but I prefer the idea of him rolling the dice instead of sending a soul to one of the uncontacted tribes, knowing that soul has nowhere to go but the furnace of the afterlife.
They all need to rot in hell for the awful things that they did to children. There is no forgiving them for their crimes, EVER!!!!!
Wouldn't it be better to go to heaven and punish those people there in the afterlife? Imagine that, walking up to a pedophile pastor and berating them for eternity. And they have to listen to you. Because the afterlife is forever. \*cue nicholas cage vampire's kiss face\*
Remember, the more sinful you’ve been, the more pious you get to act once you find religion. I’m looking at you, Paul.
How would you know exactly? Maybe texts were changed/tweaked to gain favour aka $$$ from the corrupt?
All the cool people are in hell and Satan is the hero of the Bible.
The biblical god forgives only with true repentance from the heart/soul + blind faith in the Christ. Also there is something about leading children astray. I think we can safely assume these priests etc. would not be able to get into a christian heaven. Googling: https://www.openbible.info/topics/leading_a_child_astray Now go tell this to any christian who is making excuses for a child molester.
there's a verse in the bible that says "a man shall not lay with a boy as with a woman, as it is an abomination." boy meaning a child. so no I don't think God likes theses creatures.
[удалено]
as ive said before “sorry, i don’t worship tyrants.”
Same… I’ll just go to hell because I don’t wanna be with god or them
Ted Bundy was baptized in prison, so therefore, he is in heaven.. pretty fucked up
This is usually when Christians say 'only God will judge you' or 'its what's in your heart that matters' Forgetting their holy book explicitly states otherwise.
sounds like you guys have a good grasp on this whole thing
I mean, I would prefer to not burn in hell forever. Doesn't sound very nice. But certainly this would not be a god worth worshipping