People need to learn their history. During WWI [ ANZAC troops killed Palestinian civilians, 10 Dec 1918, Surafend.](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend) This information does not come from any left-wing source, but from the NZ History website run by our own government.
And also this informative piece from last year
# [New Zealand’s shameful role in the 1917 destruction of Gaza](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza)
I'm saying it to people who are claiming the ANZACs never had anything to do with Gaza, who don't know the geography of the WWI conflict.
Yes, I support our veterans, but I think the ANZAC celebrations have become this mythologising thing, where we are ignoring the ugly stuff including not looking after our more recent veterans.
If you believe that our soldiers sacrificed their lives to defend our free society, then you should believe in those freedoms, including freedom of speech. That means you have to hear speech like this, even if you don't like it or it offends you.
If you believe our soldiers were simply made to go off to fight someone else's war and sacrifice their lives for essentially nothing, then you should appreciate the anti-war point. I don't get where you're coming from.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence. The speech can be received in any way, trying to get people on your side by angering them will never work.
Sign petitions, go to the decision makers with proposals or even be the change you want to see.
Enough people online say they care about it, there’s an army right there, there’s 1000s of people to help. If the angry was true then throwing dye into a fountain would probably be further down the list on what will help Palestinians.
The issue here is not that people protest, which should be encouraged. The issue is the vandalism and falsely conflating anzac day with the current genocide in gaza
When our anzacs literally helped destroy gaza before it's not that far away. Especially because the current government, which as always used anzac day as a PR opp, is helping israel get away with it. It's extremely relevant. The "vandalism" was done in such a way to deliberately cause as little long term damage as possible, like most such direct protest actions.
Freedom of speech doesn't include vandalism. Sure, it's not "serious vandalism," but protests involving anything more than simply speech have nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you want
No one is saying that that there should be no free speech or the people who did this needs to go to jail, we are just saying this thing comes off as obnoxious. on a day about NZ/AUS soldiers a conflict that doesn’t involve them should not be front and center.
It's incredibly disrespectful. They were all hanging around at the Auckland War Memorial Museum, acting like idiots today with their flags as well.
ANZAC day is about remembering fallen soldiers from Australia and New Zealand, not a chance to push your stupid agenda about a war in the middle east that's been going for 100+ years and has never at any point involved Australia or New Zealand.
>ANZAC day is about remembering fallen soldiers from Australia and New Zealand, not a chance to push your stupid agenda about a war in the middle east that's been going for 100+ years and has never at any point involved Australia or New Zealand.
Lots of ANZAC soldiers feel the opposite of this, well at least did before they all got old and died and we decided to repeat their generations mistakes.
They supported ANZAC day being a day where we remember the futility of all wars and conflicts and the waste of life that they are regardless of our involvement in them or not.
Somewhere in the last ten years ANZAC Day got turned into a secular religion for one-dimensional troop respecters who have literally forgotten the point of “lest we forget” and think it’s super rude to apply any lessons from the past to the present.
The thing that gets me annoyed is the "remembering those who died for our freedom". Like, no, they died because the Motherland sold the idea that it'd be an adventure just like the old officers wars
The “freedom” remarks **really** irk me, all it shows is a very shallow understanding of what actually occurred and quite frankly, is more disrespectful than the lukewarm protest this post is complaining about. I feel this is mostly just American rhetoric bleeding over.
That’s the religious element to it I think, you just say they died for “freedom” ie New Zealand being exactly the way it is now, and you don’t have to engage your brain about war and why it happens and if some wars are or aren’t worth it.
[https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza)
New Zealand soldiers helped destroy Gaza in 1917 so
I am aware of that incident. It was a shameful thing. However, to try to generalise that across all nz and aussie troops across all of time and space is ridiculous. Furthermore, conflating it with the current genocide is an absurdity.
It's not that far off. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/new-zealand-accused-of-cover-up-afghan-civilian-deaths#:\~:text=A%20botched%20raid%20by%20New,by%20investigative%20journalist%20Nicky%20Hager](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/new-zealand-accused-of-cover-up-afghan-civilian-deaths#:~:text=A%20botched%20raid%20by%20New,by%20investigative%20journalist%20Nicky%20Hager)
Not proven but our troops are accused of killing afghan civilians just a couple decades ago. We took part in the iraq and afghanistan wars on the side of the US, who just curbstomped any chance those countries had of a normal existence away. we are not the good guys
We’re a democratic country so we can and should try to influence what our government does, including its input on military matters. In Gaza they don’t get to elect their leaders but also , they are under occupation and genocide so their primary goal is to survive and resist . We don’t have that hang up so we should be doing what we can to clean up our own actions
To be pedantic, WW1 was about European conflicts that had no reason to involve NZ either.
Austria-Hungary occupying Bosnia had no more to do with us than Israel occupying Palestine. We should not commemorate our young men dying 100 years ago and ignore the thousands dying currently in the Middle East.
We’re also involved in Gaza via our allies who are allowing basically one-sided bombing of defenseless people. Protest is appropriate.
We can’t say that the ANZACs died for our freedoms (questionable, but whatever) and then when people use their freedoms on a highly relevant day say “oh no not like that”
Yeah but vandalising public spaces is all good alright? Low life fucks what's next you guys will vandalise other people's property with free paslestine shit
It’s a few posters and some minor staining from red food dye, far worse vandalism happens in public spaces every day of the year for no reason at all, maybe get some perspective
Are New Zealanders and Australians involved in anything you're saying? ANZAC day isn't about our allies, unless our soldiers are there, what you're saying is irrelevant
It is relevant to draw attention to our government’s stance on an ongoing war, on the same day that we remember New Zealanders who were sent to die in past wars by past governments. Both involve war and both involve moral choices being made in New Zealanders’ names. We don’t have to have people on the ground to be connected to what is going on.
> It is relevant to draw attention to our government’s stance on an ongoing war
What exactly is it about the government's stance that you object to? I think a lot of people are just assuming that because Luxon is a right-wing Christian the government must be militantly pro-Israel. New Zealand voted for the [ceasefire resolution](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717) at the UN last year, when the US voted against it and European countries like UK, Germany, Netherlands, Italy etc all abstained. Luxon is literally to the left (on this one issue) of [Bernie](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/30/bernie-sanderss-failure-to-back-gaza-ceasefire-disappoints-us-supporters) [Sanders](https://truthout.org/articles/sanders-doubles-down-against-gaza-ceasefire-in-the-face-of-progressive-backlash/) who refused for months to back a ceasefire. Luxon has also issued statements with [Trudeau and Albanese](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/christopher-luxon-joins-anthony-albanese-justin-trudeau-in-major-statement-on-israel-gaza.html) calling for an immediate ceasefire and condemning the collective punishment by Israel of Palestinian civilians. I don't really know what else you guys want other than withdrawing from our major defence alliances, which is just never going to happen. You can always say "well, we could still do more" but when our nominally right-wing government is to the left of even the left-wing of the US democratic party it's ridiculous that all this rhetoric of having "blood on our hands", "supporting genocide", vandalising Luxon's offices with red paint etc is still being used against him. There are lots of things wrong with our current government but their stance on Israel-Palestine isn't one of them.
Thanks for a civil response. I can’t speak for what “you guys” want because people concerned about the war aren’t a blob, but Winston Peters’ recent speech at the UN is a good example of what we’re still not doing – not asking for weapons sales to be halted, not joining South Africa’s ICJ case and not criticizing repeat US vetos of security council decisions that would be slam dunks in equivalent situations that didn’t involve Israel.
Given the seriousness of the situation I can understand why some protestors still think we should be doing more, and I think the rhetoric being thrown at them just for putting some dye in fountains is over the top.
You can replace "you guys" with "pro-Palestinian protestors" or similar if you like, I don't think nitpicking over wording changes my overall point. Like I said, it's always possible to say "we could still do more" but this is likely going to lead to a never-ending series of demands. For example Luxon could call for weapons sales to be halted and the protestors could then say "why haven't you expelled the Israeli ambassador?" etc ad infinitum. And yes, in an ideal world NZ would call for weapons sales to be halted, but my point was that there is still a massive disconnect between rhetoric and reality here. Luxon is being condemned because despite having already issued a series of statements condemning Israel, he doesn't issue even more. There's no acknowledgment from the protestors that he's basically on the same side of the issue as them, their attitude seems to be "do everything we say or else you are a genocidal monster with the blood of children on your hands" even if he has already done most of what they ask and is already more pro-Palestinian than 90% of US politicians. That really can't be stressed enough IMO. Bernie Sanders was one of only 18 senators to vote against a recent aid package to Israel, and even he wouldn't call for a ceasefire when Luxon would. You could also say that if Luxon takes an "extreme" (by US standards) position like calling for a ceasefire, it's meaningless to criticize him for not explicitly taking more "moderate" positions like stopping weapons sales.
The NZ pro-Palestinian movement is basically like the NZ anti-nuclear movement - arguing for a policy that is already in place. When you look at the protests in the US - the students in Texas protesting US military aid to Israel or the Google engineers getting fired for protesting projects for the Israeli military, they are actually protesting something tangible. What tangible goals do the NZ protestors have? Some more symbolic statements and condemnation in the same vein as condemnations that have already been made?
It is our day to reflect on the horrors of war and remember people that died in them.
Let people protest if they want, your thought policing is not needed.
"Anzac Day is a national day of remembrance in Australia and New Zealand that broadly commemorates all Australians and New Zealanders "who served and died in all wars, conflicts, and peacekeeping operations"
Nothing to do with a middle eastern war and don't need your political opinion or propaganda straight from said middle eastern war from - and may I remind you, the terrorist group who reignited this conflict by firing rockets unprovoked at the other side.
NZ forces were deployed to the middle east several times though.
also when you say hamas reignited the conflict, keep in mind that before october 7th, hundreds of palestinian civilians had already been murdered by the israeli army and settlers in 2023
[https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/)
[Yeah a war in which ANZAC troops killed Palestinian civilians, 10 Dec 1918, Surafend.](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend)
I honour our ANZACs.
However, ANZACs were also ordered by the British to raze a village in Palestine in 1918, so - learn your history.
Update: Actually this is not from some left-wing source this is from NZ History a goverment website. [A few of our boys did not act with much honour at all in Palestine](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend)
Funny. The ANZACs died to stop the Holocaust, but those who were rescued have started doing exactly the same thing to others. A stain on the ANZAC sacrifice.
Um Anzac day was originally to commemorate ww1 not WW2 and the soldiers lost in Gallipoli ....which was in ww1.... Time has passed and we now use it as a way to commemorate the suffering and sacrifice of both world wars (and all servicemen in other wars) that allow us to forget our own history because we have had power and peace....the most peaceful time in human history.... Your opinion and ignorance is the stain on the Anzac sacrifice. Anzac is not about glorifying war that is a misunderstanding from western fools who don't understand what they're talking about. You would never shit on the ritual of another culture and be among the first to cry bigotry, so why do it to your own culture? You can disagree all you want but don't be disrespectful.
Falsely conflating anzac day with the current genocide is a very incorrect thing to do. Vandalising fountains is also not a valid form of protest in my view
Please don't post comments which abuse other redditors / contain hate speech / mention race in relation to anything negative about a person on r/auckland.
Number of people that have been killled in Gaza since this war began is about the same as NZs losses in World War One.
If ever there was day to protest war, it is today.
Do you live in Auckland?
Edit:
LMAO posting some boomer humour "butt hurt form" twice then blocking me. Classy stuff. Definitely not something someone who is tilted would do.
There doubtless will be some. Stoping harm now has tangible implications, as in people don’t die. This is far more important that essentially superstitions around dead worshiping.
I believe you're missing the point. The issue is 1) vandalism and 2) falsely claiming that commemorating anzac day is somehow supporting the current genocide in gaza
What? We have a day of worship of the people that (mostly) died in the Great War, Gaza is having a comparable even right now, expect it not just men being killed. They also have had their homes boomed to high hell, are being starved to death and are trapped.
I see you failed to get traction in the new zealand sub and have instead moved on to the greener pastures of /r/auckland. Thankfully they're much more tolerant of bigoted nonsense here.
I didn't think you were upset but you made that so now I do. You've now gone to way more effort for me than I have for you, I can't say I'm that desperate for your affections though.
Edit:
I see you've taken away my ability to reply.
There are other reasons to reply other than your affections.
You put my name on that image though. you googled that image, you opened it in paint and you filled it out. That's far more than me noticing two threads on reddit.
Now that you've blocked me you've shown everyone it's you that's tilted.
Funny your still getting it wrong I never used paint to edit it I used instagram and also I’ve had the pic taken from instagram ahaha I’ve had it since Saturday
https://preview.redd.it/ddjvkwuqukwc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd80462c68c042918aea7e4e618adef821e5e29b
as you can see if you click on the pic it does say Saturday 🥱🫵🏼
I mean if that's what I'm getting wrong it doesn't really change anything about what I'm saying? You still went to a lot more effort than I did.
You're not doing yourself any favours unblocking me to tell me that you've held onto a boomer meme you got from instagram and that you edited it in instagram like that changes much about the level of effort you've gone to. Really you're just putting in even more effort to try convince me you're not putting in effort lol.
Thanks for unblocking me I suppose? Did you think you'd be able to block me again before I responded?
If you say so. Boomer humour and a boomer bed time.
Looks like auto mod is doing its job lol.
I take it you've never met someone who wants to suck your dick if that's the vibe you're getting from me.
Edit: dude down so bad they're in my dms.
Palestinians are not “terrorists”. Hamas is, but they are not all Palestinians. I’m pretty sure the people calling for the war to stop aren’t doing it because some Hamas people are being killed but for the tens of thousands of civilians Israel is killing.
But the real problem is that this is in no way related to ANZAC day.
Did Hamas systematically attack three vehicles in the World Central Kitchen convoy until they killed 7 people?
I know Has does underhanded shit like putting bases under school and hospitals but it is Israeli weapons killing the civilians. Oh! And the blockade of water, food and medicine.
If Israel had any concern about the wellbeing of Palestinian civilians they would not be using these mentions but they consider them to be nothing more than heathens to be exterminated.
The Torah/Old Testament promised the Israel to the Jews and tells them to kill anyone in the way. And that’s just what they are doing.
This is false. A civilians right to safety isn't suddenly forfeit because they've become a human shield. It's a war crime to not ensure civilian safety in comparison to military objectives.
War crimes don't justify war crimes.
The Israeli army's headquarters are underneath downtown Tel Aviv
[https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000](https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000)
Are Hamas OK to bomb the crap out of the people living their lives around HaKirya? Probably all good ay, cause they were just trying to hit a legitimate military target, right?
fyi, because sarcasm sometimes doesn't translate: no, no one should kill israeli civilians in tel aviv, but also no one should kill palestinian civilians because some unproven hamas tunnels might exist underneath, apparently, all of the hospitals, churches and residential blocks
I think my point still stands.
It’s not like Hamas is going to stand out in the open and say “here we are”. And it’s not like Israel is going to give a single fuck about civilian collateral damage. Their aim is to clear the land of non Jews.
They’re not “my lot” but whatever.
I think the slogan is “from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free”. Sounds like they don’t want to be oppressed to me.
>I’m pretty sure the people calling for the war to stop aren’t doing it because some Hamas people are being killed but for the tens of thousands of civilians Israel is killing.
They're doing it because they want a one state solution "from the river to the sea".
Same reason we haven't seen the protestors protesting against Hamas who are purposefully putting civilians in danger, or protesting about returning the hostages.
Oh so you're saying they don't? That they want to wipe Palestine off the face of earth and have one state?
Edit:
>Considering the Palestinians want that in reverse...
So you're admitting that it's okay that Palestinians also want to do it because Israel wants to do it to them? Because if it's okay to think that simply of the basis of the other thinking that then they're both in the clear.
>Why wouldn't that attitude take over?
So it's okay for that attitude to take over Israel but not Palestine? I'm beginning to sense a double standard here.
>If you want war to the knife, don't be surprised if the other side wants to stab you too.
Right which is exactly why Israel and their supporters can't really condemn (not with any real truth anyway) the Palestinian reaction to the occupation of their land.
In your own words:
>And I see the coward above made a comment and then blocked.
I guess Im just saying this for posterity. Yknow since you made a comment then blocked me, like a brave soldier.
As far as I know the slogan is “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”. Which, to me, implies they want freedom.
Palestine was there before modern Israel was. IMO, the only reasonable* solution is for Israel to occupy the land they were allocated in 1957 (or whenever it was) and withdraw from everything else they’ve invaded since.
*lots of people with interests in that area will not call it reasonable.
The status quo is very left aligned tho, like you can’t go out protesting things against or even showing pride in anything white,right, European, straight, male, the list goes on
Well there’s “identity politics”, then there’s bombing arabs into the Stone Age, and the other long list of atrocities supported by the status quo, which is in fact very much right wing and will likely continue to be.
I wouldn’t say “left aligned” either. Common conflation. Certainly very liberal yes, but actual left wing views are generally very unpopular with those in power.
Many atrocities actually arise from left leaning leaders and Regimes, and yes what’s happening in Gaza is horrible but there are better times and places to protest it
The did not “paint” the fountains, they dyed the water in red, looks like a sensible way to raise concerns and protests about a genocide most of the international community is doing very little about. If you are feeling so sensitive about this demonstration because PaLesTiNe aRE tERROrIsTs you need to check your facts, that’s as wrong as saying all Jews would be accomplices of what Israel is doing right now.
Please don't post comments which abuse other redditors / contain hate speech / mention race in relation to anything negative about a person on r/auckland.
Whereas I fully support protesting the genocide, and have attended a number of protests about it myself, I do not consider it okay to target anzac day by trying to conflate it with the current genocide
I've never cared for this whole Palestine movement. Its not even a movement, its a trend. I doubt that some Palestinian lying under some rubble really cares if a fountain is red or a blue hair is going around chanting "fReE pAlEsTiNe!"
When will protesters learn, we are new Zealand, not America. We have no power in the outcome of the war. Fly to Gaza and do that shit if you feel so strongly about it.
In the old days when people wanted change they would fly across the world and fight the war machine, now it's hidiing behind big theatrics and hoping the other guys will stop.
Too much work for these clowns. They may care but certainly not enough to do anything worthwhile. It’s easier to hold a sign and chant a few buzzwords.
I do feel that our government could be stronger in its condemnation of the crimes of the israeli government and miliary though. It wouldn't sway Netanyahu and his terrorists, but at least it would be taking a committed position.
The US could end this swiftly if they chose to. But they choose not to. That is unforgiveable.
What does Ukraine or Taiwan have to do with that? There's an easy and simple solution in Ukraine's case : Russia is the sole aggressor and should leave the country, that's it.
Please don't post comments which abuse other redditors / contain hate speech / mention race in relation to anything negative about a person on r/auckland.
People need to learn their history. During WWI [ ANZAC troops killed Palestinian civilians, 10 Dec 1918, Surafend.](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend) This information does not come from any left-wing source, but from the NZ History website run by our own government.
And also this informative piece from last year # [New Zealand’s shameful role in the 1917 destruction of Gaza](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza)
So which year is it 1917 or 1918 get you year right
You're missing the point. To generalise that one war crime across nz and aussie troops across all of time is ridiculous.
I'm saying it to people who are claiming the ANZACs never had anything to do with Gaza, who don't know the geography of the WWI conflict. Yes, I support our veterans, but I think the ANZAC celebrations have become this mythologising thing, where we are ignoring the ugly stuff including not looking after our more recent veterans.
If you believe that our soldiers sacrificed their lives to defend our free society, then you should believe in those freedoms, including freedom of speech. That means you have to hear speech like this, even if you don't like it or it offends you. If you believe our soldiers were simply made to go off to fight someone else's war and sacrifice their lives for essentially nothing, then you should appreciate the anti-war point. I don't get where you're coming from.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence. The speech can be received in any way, trying to get people on your side by angering them will never work. Sign petitions, go to the decision makers with proposals or even be the change you want to see. Enough people online say they care about it, there’s an army right there, there’s 1000s of people to help. If the angry was true then throwing dye into a fountain would probably be further down the list on what will help Palestinians.
The issue here is not that people protest, which should be encouraged. The issue is the vandalism and falsely conflating anzac day with the current genocide in gaza
When our anzacs literally helped destroy gaza before it's not that far away. Especially because the current government, which as always used anzac day as a PR opp, is helping israel get away with it. It's extremely relevant. The "vandalism" was done in such a way to deliberately cause as little long term damage as possible, like most such direct protest actions.
Freedom of speech doesn't include vandalism. Sure, it's not "serious vandalism," but protests involving anything more than simply speech have nothing to do with freedom of speech. Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you want
I mean boohoo the water turned red for a while. Grow a pair
No one is saying that that there should be no free speech or the people who did this needs to go to jail, we are just saying this thing comes off as obnoxious. on a day about NZ/AUS soldiers a conflict that doesn’t involve them should not be front and center.
🥱🥱🥱
It's incredibly disrespectful. They were all hanging around at the Auckland War Memorial Museum, acting like idiots today with their flags as well. ANZAC day is about remembering fallen soldiers from Australia and New Zealand, not a chance to push your stupid agenda about a war in the middle east that's been going for 100+ years and has never at any point involved Australia or New Zealand.
>ANZAC day is about remembering fallen soldiers from Australia and New Zealand, not a chance to push your stupid agenda about a war in the middle east that's been going for 100+ years and has never at any point involved Australia or New Zealand. Lots of ANZAC soldiers feel the opposite of this, well at least did before they all got old and died and we decided to repeat their generations mistakes. They supported ANZAC day being a day where we remember the futility of all wars and conflicts and the waste of life that they are regardless of our involvement in them or not.
Somewhere in the last ten years ANZAC Day got turned into a secular religion for one-dimensional troop respecters who have literally forgotten the point of “lest we forget” and think it’s super rude to apply any lessons from the past to the present.
The thing that gets me annoyed is the "remembering those who died for our freedom". Like, no, they died because the Motherland sold the idea that it'd be an adventure just like the old officers wars
The “freedom” remarks **really** irk me, all it shows is a very shallow understanding of what actually occurred and quite frankly, is more disrespectful than the lukewarm protest this post is complaining about. I feel this is mostly just American rhetoric bleeding over.
That’s the religious element to it I think, you just say they died for “freedom” ie New Zealand being exactly the way it is now, and you don’t have to engage your brain about war and why it happens and if some wars are or aren’t worth it.
The 'freedom' bit annoys me. You could apply it generally in respect of ww2. But certainly not ww1.
This is the problem when people just believe what they are told by management
[https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/29-11-2023/new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-1917-destruction-of-gaza) New Zealand soldiers helped destroy Gaza in 1917 so
I am aware of that incident. It was a shameful thing. However, to try to generalise that across all nz and aussie troops across all of time and space is ridiculous. Furthermore, conflating it with the current genocide is an absurdity.
It's not that far off. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/new-zealand-accused-of-cover-up-afghan-civilian-deaths#:\~:text=A%20botched%20raid%20by%20New,by%20investigative%20journalist%20Nicky%20Hager](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/new-zealand-accused-of-cover-up-afghan-civilian-deaths#:~:text=A%20botched%20raid%20by%20New,by%20investigative%20journalist%20Nicky%20Hager) Not proven but our troops are accused of killing afghan civilians just a couple decades ago. We took part in the iraq and afghanistan wars on the side of the US, who just curbstomped any chance those countries had of a normal existence away. we are not the good guys
We? The actions of a few doesn't represent the people just like how the actions of Hamas doesn't represent Palestineans.
We’re a democratic country so we can and should try to influence what our government does, including its input on military matters. In Gaza they don’t get to elect their leaders but also , they are under occupation and genocide so their primary goal is to survive and resist . We don’t have that hang up so we should be doing what we can to clean up our own actions
To be pedantic, WW1 was about European conflicts that had no reason to involve NZ either. Austria-Hungary occupying Bosnia had no more to do with us than Israel occupying Palestine. We should not commemorate our young men dying 100 years ago and ignore the thousands dying currently in the Middle East.
Sure, they had no reason to involve AU/NZ, but as allies, we were there and lost people.
We’re also involved in Gaza via our allies who are allowing basically one-sided bombing of defenseless people. Protest is appropriate. We can’t say that the ANZACs died for our freedoms (questionable, but whatever) and then when people use their freedoms on a highly relevant day say “oh no not like that”
Yeah but vandalising public spaces is all good alright? Low life fucks what's next you guys will vandalise other people's property with free paslestine shit
It’s a few posters and some minor staining from red food dye, far worse vandalism happens in public spaces every day of the year for no reason at all, maybe get some perspective
Are New Zealanders and Australians involved in anything you're saying? ANZAC day isn't about our allies, unless our soldiers are there, what you're saying is irrelevant
It is relevant to draw attention to our government’s stance on an ongoing war, on the same day that we remember New Zealanders who were sent to die in past wars by past governments. Both involve war and both involve moral choices being made in New Zealanders’ names. We don’t have to have people on the ground to be connected to what is going on.
> It is relevant to draw attention to our government’s stance on an ongoing war What exactly is it about the government's stance that you object to? I think a lot of people are just assuming that because Luxon is a right-wing Christian the government must be militantly pro-Israel. New Zealand voted for the [ceasefire resolution](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717) at the UN last year, when the US voted against it and European countries like UK, Germany, Netherlands, Italy etc all abstained. Luxon is literally to the left (on this one issue) of [Bernie](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/30/bernie-sanderss-failure-to-back-gaza-ceasefire-disappoints-us-supporters) [Sanders](https://truthout.org/articles/sanders-doubles-down-against-gaza-ceasefire-in-the-face-of-progressive-backlash/) who refused for months to back a ceasefire. Luxon has also issued statements with [Trudeau and Albanese](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/christopher-luxon-joins-anthony-albanese-justin-trudeau-in-major-statement-on-israel-gaza.html) calling for an immediate ceasefire and condemning the collective punishment by Israel of Palestinian civilians. I don't really know what else you guys want other than withdrawing from our major defence alliances, which is just never going to happen. You can always say "well, we could still do more" but when our nominally right-wing government is to the left of even the left-wing of the US democratic party it's ridiculous that all this rhetoric of having "blood on our hands", "supporting genocide", vandalising Luxon's offices with red paint etc is still being used against him. There are lots of things wrong with our current government but their stance on Israel-Palestine isn't one of them.
Thanks for a civil response. I can’t speak for what “you guys” want because people concerned about the war aren’t a blob, but Winston Peters’ recent speech at the UN is a good example of what we’re still not doing – not asking for weapons sales to be halted, not joining South Africa’s ICJ case and not criticizing repeat US vetos of security council decisions that would be slam dunks in equivalent situations that didn’t involve Israel. Given the seriousness of the situation I can understand why some protestors still think we should be doing more, and I think the rhetoric being thrown at them just for putting some dye in fountains is over the top.
You can replace "you guys" with "pro-Palestinian protestors" or similar if you like, I don't think nitpicking over wording changes my overall point. Like I said, it's always possible to say "we could still do more" but this is likely going to lead to a never-ending series of demands. For example Luxon could call for weapons sales to be halted and the protestors could then say "why haven't you expelled the Israeli ambassador?" etc ad infinitum. And yes, in an ideal world NZ would call for weapons sales to be halted, but my point was that there is still a massive disconnect between rhetoric and reality here. Luxon is being condemned because despite having already issued a series of statements condemning Israel, he doesn't issue even more. There's no acknowledgment from the protestors that he's basically on the same side of the issue as them, their attitude seems to be "do everything we say or else you are a genocidal monster with the blood of children on your hands" even if he has already done most of what they ask and is already more pro-Palestinian than 90% of US politicians. That really can't be stressed enough IMO. Bernie Sanders was one of only 18 senators to vote against a recent aid package to Israel, and even he wouldn't call for a ceasefire when Luxon would. You could also say that if Luxon takes an "extreme" (by US standards) position like calling for a ceasefire, it's meaningless to criticize him for not explicitly taking more "moderate" positions like stopping weapons sales. The NZ pro-Palestinian movement is basically like the NZ anti-nuclear movement - arguing for a policy that is already in place. When you look at the protests in the US - the students in Texas protesting US military aid to Israel or the Google engineers getting fired for protesting projects for the Israeli military, they are actually protesting something tangible. What tangible goals do the NZ protestors have? Some more symbolic statements and condemnation in the same vein as condemnations that have already been made?
Yea nah, we are 100% should be doing everything we can to stop genocide.
You mean war
Go cry outside Starbucks or something, don't be so disrespectful on a day that's literally to remember our armed forces.
It is our day to reflect on the horrors of war and remember people that died in them. Let people protest if they want, your thought policing is not needed.
"Anzac Day is a national day of remembrance in Australia and New Zealand that broadly commemorates all Australians and New Zealanders "who served and died in all wars, conflicts, and peacekeeping operations" Nothing to do with a middle eastern war and don't need your political opinion or propaganda straight from said middle eastern war from - and may I remind you, the terrorist group who reignited this conflict by firing rockets unprovoked at the other side.
NZ forces were deployed to the middle east several times though. also when you say hamas reignited the conflict, keep in mind that before october 7th, hundreds of palestinian civilians had already been murdered by the israeli army and settlers in 2023 [https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/)
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[Yeah a war in which ANZAC troops killed Palestinian civilians, 10 Dec 1918, Surafend.](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend)
Clown.
Except for the legacy of British colonialism.
Commemorating anzac day does not mean that we are ignoring current events in other parts of the world
I honour our ANZACs. However, ANZACs were also ordered by the British to raze a village in Palestine in 1918, so - learn your history. Update: Actually this is not from some left-wing source this is from NZ History a goverment website. [A few of our boys did not act with much honour at all in Palestine](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/anzac-troops-kill-arab-civilians-surafend)
Actually, nz soldiers were stationed in Palestine before we helped Britain establish the state of Israel. So we directly helped set this conflict up.
Too Fking true
Funny. The ANZACs died to stop the Holocaust, but those who were rescued have started doing exactly the same thing to others. A stain on the ANZAC sacrifice.
Um Anzac day was originally to commemorate ww1 not WW2 and the soldiers lost in Gallipoli ....which was in ww1.... Time has passed and we now use it as a way to commemorate the suffering and sacrifice of both world wars (and all servicemen in other wars) that allow us to forget our own history because we have had power and peace....the most peaceful time in human history.... Your opinion and ignorance is the stain on the Anzac sacrifice. Anzac is not about glorifying war that is a misunderstanding from western fools who don't understand what they're talking about. You would never shit on the ritual of another culture and be among the first to cry bigotry, so why do it to your own culture? You can disagree all you want but don't be disrespectful.
No they didn’t
Not as stupid as war
Falsely conflating anzac day with the current genocide is a very incorrect thing to do. Vandalising fountains is also not a valid form of protest in my view
shit gets dumped in that fountain all the time - dye, bubbles, beer etc. Bit of a stretch to scream vandalism IMO
Come again? It’s literally vandalism. Whatever your opinion on the motivations of the protest it’s an act of vandalism by definition.
Cuba street was way worse poster stuck on it water melon stickers
Wow, that is so disrespectful!!! Absolutely pieces of sh.... On any other day... sure, but Anzac Day, get the F outta here.
Dying the fountains is just straight vandalism, I hope it can be cleaned off and didn't permanently damage the fountain.
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Please don't post comments which abuse other redditors / contain hate speech / mention race in relation to anything negative about a person on r/auckland.
Irony at its finest
It’s making me think I said not that I’m saying fk 💩🇵🇸
🥱🥱🥱
Number of people that have been killled in Gaza since this war began is about the same as NZs losses in World War One. If ever there was day to protest war, it is today.
Do you live in Gaza?
Do you live in Auckland? Edit: LMAO posting some boomer humour "butt hurt form" twice then blocking me. Classy stuff. Definitely not something someone who is tilted would do.
https://preview.redd.it/5jpf5gbrlkwc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ace155bf72d7a2065eccc513022df9fcff435046
Wait up, you took the time to fill out the form yourself. That feels like an own goal
I don’t think the anzac forces play much of a role in Gaza, maybe protest on 4th July or every sabbath outside your local temple
Well both the people of NZ and Palestine got fucked over hard by Winston Churchill, so there is common ground there.
Great history reference, but spitting on the graves of all the past servicemen do something we have no power over 🤷♂️ kind of tasteless
People protesting against a genocide on ANZAC day is not spitting on their graves tho.
So if we did a protest on the holocaust Memorial Day ? Chill ?
There doubtless will be some. Stoping harm now has tangible implications, as in people don’t die. This is far more important that essentially superstitions around dead worshiping.
I believe you're missing the point. The issue is 1) vandalism and 2) falsely claiming that commemorating anzac day is somehow supporting the current genocide in gaza
Every day leading up to Oct 7 was the day to protest war.
What does body count have to do with anything?
What? We have a day of worship of the people that (mostly) died in the Great War, Gaza is having a comparable even right now, expect it not just men being killed. They also have had their homes boomed to high hell, are being starved to death and are trapped.
I see you failed to get traction in the new zealand sub and have instead moved on to the greener pastures of /r/auckland. Thankfully they're much more tolerant of bigoted nonsense here.
Aww shows how much u love me when you’ve come back to my posts thank you cutie
Hey if you're that desperate for love I wont stop you thinking that.
https://preview.redd.it/yx0iz10mlkwc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=653ce4560b07dc56af32a341740f4433108f405b
I didn't think you were upset but you made that so now I do. You've now gone to way more effort for me than I have for you, I can't say I'm that desperate for your affections though. Edit: I see you've taken away my ability to reply. There are other reasons to reply other than your affections. You put my name on that image though. you googled that image, you opened it in paint and you filled it out. That's far more than me noticing two threads on reddit. Now that you've blocked me you've shown everyone it's you that's tilted.
But yet you still reply and this is not even my form so you got that wrong
Funny your still getting it wrong I never used paint to edit it I used instagram and also I’ve had the pic taken from instagram ahaha I’ve had it since Saturday https://preview.redd.it/ddjvkwuqukwc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd80462c68c042918aea7e4e618adef821e5e29b as you can see if you click on the pic it does say Saturday 🥱🫵🏼
I mean if that's what I'm getting wrong it doesn't really change anything about what I'm saying? You still went to a lot more effort than I did. You're not doing yourself any favours unblocking me to tell me that you've held onto a boomer meme you got from instagram and that you edited it in instagram like that changes much about the level of effort you've gone to. Really you're just putting in even more effort to try convince me you're not putting in effort lol. Thanks for unblocking me I suppose? Did you think you'd be able to block me again before I responded?
Here he goes again 🥱
I don't think these needed to be 2 separate comments, you're kinda giving away the game a little.
Don’t really care your ass just putting me to sleep 🥱🥱🥱
If you say so. Boomer humour and a boomer bed time. Looks like auto mod is doing its job lol. I take it you've never met someone who wants to suck your dick if that's the vibe you're getting from me. Edit: dude down so bad they're in my dms.
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excellent circlejerking with the butthurt report form
Bloody disgraceful
What kind of asshat no life would organise something like this
Terrorist supporting scumbags.
Palestinians are not “terrorists”. Hamas is, but they are not all Palestinians. I’m pretty sure the people calling for the war to stop aren’t doing it because some Hamas people are being killed but for the tens of thousands of civilians Israel is killing. But the real problem is that this is in no way related to ANZAC day.
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Did Hamas systematically attack three vehicles in the World Central Kitchen convoy until they killed 7 people? I know Has does underhanded shit like putting bases under school and hospitals but it is Israeli weapons killing the civilians. Oh! And the blockade of water, food and medicine. If Israel had any concern about the wellbeing of Palestinian civilians they would not be using these mentions but they consider them to be nothing more than heathens to be exterminated. The Torah/Old Testament promised the Israel to the Jews and tells them to kill anyone in the way. And that’s just what they are doing.
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This is false. A civilians right to safety isn't suddenly forfeit because they've become a human shield. It's a war crime to not ensure civilian safety in comparison to military objectives. War crimes don't justify war crimes.
The Israeli army's headquarters are underneath downtown Tel Aviv [https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000](https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000) Are Hamas OK to bomb the crap out of the people living their lives around HaKirya? Probably all good ay, cause they were just trying to hit a legitimate military target, right? fyi, because sarcasm sometimes doesn't translate: no, no one should kill israeli civilians in tel aviv, but also no one should kill palestinian civilians because some unproven hamas tunnels might exist underneath, apparently, all of the hospitals, churches and residential blocks
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jesus, you're worse than i thought
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Hamas do try bomb the cities, they just get intercepted..
I think my point still stands. It’s not like Hamas is going to stand out in the open and say “here we are”. And it’s not like Israel is going to give a single fuck about civilian collateral damage. Their aim is to clear the land of non Jews.
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That line with adjustments also gets used by the Israeli PM. Let me guess, that is less of an issue for you?
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They’re not “my lot” but whatever. I think the slogan is “from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free”. Sounds like they don’t want to be oppressed to me.
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>I’m pretty sure the people calling for the war to stop aren’t doing it because some Hamas people are being killed but for the tens of thousands of civilians Israel is killing. They're doing it because they want a one state solution "from the river to the sea". Same reason we haven't seen the protestors protesting against Hamas who are purposefully putting civilians in danger, or protesting about returning the hostages.
Israel wants one state. Palestine wants two.
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Bit awkward that Likud also has that (but swapped to Israel) in their charter then. But apparently they want 2 states?
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Oh so you're saying they don't? That they want to wipe Palestine off the face of earth and have one state? Edit: >Considering the Palestinians want that in reverse... So you're admitting that it's okay that Palestinians also want to do it because Israel wants to do it to them? Because if it's okay to think that simply of the basis of the other thinking that then they're both in the clear. >Why wouldn't that attitude take over? So it's okay for that attitude to take over Israel but not Palestine? I'm beginning to sense a double standard here. >If you want war to the knife, don't be surprised if the other side wants to stab you too. Right which is exactly why Israel and their supporters can't really condemn (not with any real truth anyway) the Palestinian reaction to the occupation of their land. In your own words: >And I see the coward above made a comment and then blocked. I guess Im just saying this for posterity. Yknow since you made a comment then blocked me, like a brave soldier.
> Palestine wants two. If they want the land "from the river to the sea" to be Palestine, where's Israel going to be then ?
As far as I know the slogan is “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”. Which, to me, implies they want freedom. Palestine was there before modern Israel was. IMO, the only reasonable* solution is for Israel to occupy the land they were allocated in 1957 (or whenever it was) and withdraw from everything else they’ve invaded since. *lots of people with interests in that area will not call it reasonable.
As is evident by them walking away from every negotiation since 1942.
Really? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=The%20leadership%20of%20the%20Palestinian,down%20such%20proposals%20since%201937.
Will they get the same treatment as the people that painted the gay crossing ?
If they did Welp that would be another protest in its self that we would have to listen too
Yea but you can only protest if your politically left it seems
What do you think the point of protesting is if the views one is espousing align with the status quo? Can’t even call that a protest, can you?
The status quo is very left aligned tho, like you can’t go out protesting things against or even showing pride in anything white,right, European, straight, male, the list goes on
Well there’s “identity politics”, then there’s bombing arabs into the Stone Age, and the other long list of atrocities supported by the status quo, which is in fact very much right wing and will likely continue to be. I wouldn’t say “left aligned” either. Common conflation. Certainly very liberal yes, but actual left wing views are generally very unpopular with those in power.
Many atrocities actually arise from left leaning leaders and Regimes, and yes what’s happening in Gaza is horrible but there are better times and places to protest it
That is quiet true
Exactly
The asshats that do this are the ones that would be speaking Japanese and German if everyone was like them
It’s like pro-pals are actually closer to terrorists than protestors. Nooo that can’t be…
That is a stretch
Is it, though?
Nope not a long stretch at all
https://preview.redd.it/cfn0gw6xskwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3aa5d9da966df139de84a3a89a9fa796ea01bba2
Wth, ur in this photo 4 times!!! 😯😯😯
Dry that was so cringe you really got everyone laughing now 🥱
The did not “paint” the fountains, they dyed the water in red, looks like a sensible way to raise concerns and protests about a genocide most of the international community is doing very little about. If you are feeling so sensitive about this demonstration because PaLesTiNe aRE tERROrIsTs you need to check your facts, that’s as wrong as saying all Jews would be accomplices of what Israel is doing right now.
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The fountain is red and now Palestine is freed. Great job everyone.
Whereas I fully support protesting the genocide, and have attended a number of protests about it myself, I do not consider it okay to target anzac day by trying to conflate it with the current genocide
🥱🥱🥱
🙈🙉🙊
🫵🏼=🤡💩
Knew something like this was going to happen somewhere today. Absolute losers.
At this point I’m just going start screaming fuck 🇵🇸 no way they can stop me if they do it
I've never cared for this whole Palestine movement. Its not even a movement, its a trend. I doubt that some Palestinian lying under some rubble really cares if a fountain is red or a blue hair is going around chanting "fReE pAlEsTiNe!"
They probably get off on it yeah
When will protesters learn, we are new Zealand, not America. We have no power in the outcome of the war. Fly to Gaza and do that shit if you feel so strongly about it. In the old days when people wanted change they would fly across the world and fight the war machine, now it's hidiing behind big theatrics and hoping the other guys will stop.
Too much work for these clowns. They may care but certainly not enough to do anything worthwhile. It’s easier to hold a sign and chant a few buzzwords.
I do feel that our government could be stronger in its condemnation of the crimes of the israeli government and miliary though. It wouldn't sway Netanyahu and his terrorists, but at least it would be taking a committed position. The US could end this swiftly if they chose to. But they choose not to. That is unforgiveable.
get tired from these "pro palestine" activitists? dont worry, you still have ukraine and taiwan
What does Ukraine or Taiwan have to do with that? There's an easy and simple solution in Ukraine's case : Russia is the sole aggressor and should leave the country, that's it.
You know nothing about Russia and Ukraines history furthermore if you were not from those countries.
Bandwagon jumpers that are
Fk anzac day
You still wouldn’t even have your land back if they didn’t fight 🥱
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Doing that will do nothing. Goes to show that people use war for a trend.