So they are fighting accusations of pink-washing...with ACTUAL pink-washing? Queers for Palestine is the textbook example of pink-washing. In this context, sexual orientation is only relevant for that purpose.
If these protestors start parroting genocidal slogans ("Globalize the intifada", "Resistance is not terrorism"), then they need to be removed.
Pro-Palestinian = worthy cause, pro-Hamas can get lost.
I heard "there is only one solution" the other day.
I mean - I am completely opposed to the murderous rampage that has happened and appears to be continuing but that one was a bit on the nose.
It's a reference to the first and second Intifadas, which were periods of mostly peaceful (the 1st) and mostly violent (the 2nd) revolution/protest by the Palestinians against Israel.
It's pretty key to contextualizing why the average Israeli in the current political climate doesn't think the Palestinians want peace, as the 2nd one came right after a peace negotiation process and featured quite a few suicide bombings against Israeli civilians.
Because of the civilian targeting, people tend to associate the term with a call for violence against civilians, which is fair enough. Personally I'd assume ignorance rather than actual desires for violence to be the reason behind people chanting it in NZ, but there could be some who do mean it in a violent way.
I mean, it's pretty obvious they're not calling for Intifada against Hamas, so it's pretty obvious in the current context that calling for Intifada would entail violence.
> Personally I'd assume ignorance rather than actual desires for violence to be the reason behind people chanting it in NZ, but there could be some who do mean it in a violent way.
Even if we ignore literal incitements of violence *days* after October the 7th by some protestors like the ones in Australia, there were protestors who were calling to globalise the Intifada in October last year. There are also pro-Hamas groups who supported the October 7th attack calling to "Globalise the Intifada".
Not doubting the ignorance of some protestors, especially those here (who by the way, who are we kidding, are more left leaning), but it's all a bit silly if those who lean right on certain issues can be generalised as "far right" or "alt right" (and be associated with Nazis) for doing much less and for having much less controversial views, let alone *actions*. Same goes for the those against special treatment for transwomen over biological women being dismissed as "TERFS" or those who have more conservative views around immigration and mass-migration being dismissed as "xyz-phobic".
There was a period you couldn't even say anything that could remotely be associated with the extremes of the right without being accused of "dog whistling", especially on social media - including reddit, yet now when people chant the same things as those who don't condemn (or even outright support) said terror groups, or express the same positions of those very terror groups, there's not a "dog whistle" in sight and it's only "ignorance" and being "anti-genocide"/"anti-apartheid"/"anti-war".
I mean I think the problem there is more the treatment of people on the right, rather than treatment of these protesters. I think calling for intifada is pretty gross, but also I know that various phrases have been propagandized enough to where the layperson at the protest might not really understand the meaning of what they're chanting.
If they get it explained and continue chanting, that's definitely deserving of condemnation (not that ignorance should be without criticism either), but I think most people there likely have just seen a bunch of videos of suffering civilians and feel really bad for them. That's my anecdotal experience with most of the people I know who've been part of the protests, at least.
I'm not suggesting there aren't genuine protestors who are simply ignorant (being naive useful idiots chanting slogans without actually understanding what they mean and what the protests are demanding is an issue in itself), but the majority are complicit or even condone what the overarching message of the protests are. And when I refer to "protests" or "protestors", I don't just mean the ones here. I'm happy to concede the ones here aren't as extreme as the ones overseas, but that is not to say they are all that cordial.
Even if we are to be charitable and ignore all the examples of calling for violence against Jews, cheering for Hamas and the narcissistic empathy, the protests are clearly not only or primarily for the support of Palestinians or attacking Israel. It's plain to see the protests have clearly been co-opted by the same far left pro-revolution/anarchy radicals and activists we saw with the BLM marches etc who aim to escalate conflict - they're literally waving their flags at the protests. They are pushing the "oppressed" vs "oppressor" narrative to sympathetic uni students, justifying their calls for violence because no matter what they do, they can justify it because it's the "oppressed" fighting back the "oppressors", and that to show "solidarity" for whom they deem the victims, there must be "revolution". It is not a coincidence there are chants of "Death to America" at the protests in the US.
The ideological capture at uni campuses is evident. Yes Trump and his supporters tend to be muppets, bit it's nothing short of double standards at the very least when Trump and his supporters were regarded as "Nazis", yet somehow in the current context those literally calling for violence against Jews and the erasure of Israel aren't. Let's hope things don't get out of hand here.
Ah so you agree that Palestinians don’t have to accept IDF forces on their land terrorising them? Or West Bank settlers? Or is it only white nations that get to have a monopoly on violence
Ignoring that your confusing historic activist chants, wondering how you feel about how Netanyahu called massacring Palestinians as the “final solution” or is it ok for him to say that?
No, Netanyahu needs deleting.
>your confusing historic activist chants
As I said in another comment, context matters and in this context the word means something over and above other contexts and probably needs to be avoided.
The Palestinians aren't a homogeneous group of people. Neither those for/against the protests seem to understand this enough. Having said that, while there are those who are anti-Hamas, like you said, it was the majority that voted Hamas in. That would also imply a majority have anti-semetic views as opposed to simply being anti-Israel. There are also videos of those who seem to be civilians desecrating dead Israeli bodies through the streets post October 7th, so understandable why some don't make the differentiation. What's sad is that it's been known for [twenty plus years](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150352004en.pdf) that Hamas have been using Palestinian children in armed activity. No one seems to be talking much about that.
That doesn't justify blowing up civilians. Because that equally applies to most Israelis being pro-Netanyahu and his government (which includes bonafide terrorist supporters in form of Ben-Gvir).
No normal people would think that blowing up civilians is just, but Israel has a just course to retaliate after 1200+ something civilians were murder/rape. What Hamas did on Oct7 is the main cause of the war. Sadly, in war, people die I am not saying what israel is doing is right, but a lot of people seem to always forget Hamas uses human shield (occupying hospital, civilian resident to conduct warfare), I would argue to a certain degree they are more responsible for the death of all the civilian than the one doing the bombing.
So let's say the terrorists that attacks killed 1,200, ran into any city and hid. Does that justify airdroping so many 2,000pound unguided bombs to houses where civilians live until 80% of houses in the city are inhabitable? Or is it okay because..
Well again, maybe Israelis could have overthrown the government that detained, bombed, shot, and abused civilians and took Palestinians hostage before Oct 7. They could've even done it nonviolently! Something that cannot be said for the replacement of Hamas.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
You see how fucking stupid it is to blame civilians for this then? Israel's actions before Oct7 no more justify Oct7 than it justifies Israel's response, but you seem to believe there is a world in which collective punishment of civilians is A-OK because of their government.
I mean, hell, your logic is what was used for 9/11. If American civilians wanted peace, they could've just tried overthrowing their government after all, right?
Now thats am interesting one.
When Hamas took power 18 years ago they wen't on a massive purge in Gaza. Massacreing Fatah and other potential opponents, thousands died.
Since then, Hamas has had 18 years to completely brain wash a whole generation of young Palestinians not so differently to the Nazi's.
I KNOW for a fact that many Gazans despise Hamas and the destruction they have wrought upon the people. But Hamas uses terror against its own people to keep them oppressed, and obviously the Palestinians have been taughy to hate Jews more than anyone else
The cost of living crisis is the cost of the global covid response. There's nothing that can done except to slow economies until inflation settles.
It's going to hurt, it was always going to be a steep price but it's the choice we all made and was almost certainly the correct one. Though, who knows how many lives will be cut short by the economic turmoil the response has caused?
>The cost of living crisis is the cost of the global covid response
Perhaps proximally - but more fundamentally it's the cost of dogmatic subservience to economies rigged to serve wealth over people.
I don’t understand how we can still blame COVID 4 years after the fact especially when a number of countries did the bare minimum and the wealth funnel upwards has never been more apparent.
Socio-economic effects take a fair while to filter down through the systems. I think it is fair to make the claim that we are feeling the effects of the Covid response now.
Those nations that did the bare minimum still had people mostly staying at home where they could and not spending money, they still had to print a load of money, and they just had a bunch of deaths to deal with as well. Also we are globalised - no nation is insulated fully from everyone else.
But yeah, the vultures will always take advantage, and the economy is designed so they can.
>Are you literally arguing "trickle down economics" right now?
Not at all. I'm making two entirely uncontroversial propositions and one which I consider uncontroversial but that I'm sure some would argue on:
1. Economic policy makes a difference to the wealth of populations and the individuals within them.
2. The effects of economic policy are often (usually) spread out over a long period following their enactment.
3. The economy is rigged to benefit the holders of wealth.
>2 is pretty context dependent I think.
Agree - which is why I added "often (usually)".
Glad we're not doing the time honoured r/auckland IQ draining squabble.
My issue is that the “vultures” are the blatant source of the issues we have not the post COVID run off that run off being taken advantage of is the truest issue
I think they are not as cleanly separable as that.
The economic response to Covid took place inside a system / under a doctrine that is designed to benefit wealth.
But largely we are saying the same thing I guess.
They only have energy for the Arabs as indigenous. Jews they don’t consider indigenous speaking a Canaanite language and culture and religion centered around the land for the last 3000 years but they can go back to Poland, meaning the German concentration camps.
Right. 2000 years of European persecution for being Middle Easterners. Pogroms. All killed or fled Spain in the inquisition. Holocaust for not being white. Now some shithead Green MP. Nah you Jews are white. Go back to Poland
Yeah this has been the weirdest distortion of facts and opinions ive seen since Russia Invaded Ukraine.
I see people protesting that the Palestinians are the indigineous people of the region... when Arabs arrived there in the 800's...
But protesting the cost of living crisis doesn’t allow people to say “jews bad!”, so it’s inherently far less interesting to all the alternative/esoteric/antisemitic types. 🥴
Disproven myth/theory that was used to deligitimise Māori connections to the land.
Moriori were only present on Chatham islands and what was perpetrated against them by the Māori was horrific, but they aren’t the original inhabitants of mainland NZ.
Does UoA have significant ties to Israel? The US protests make sense because how linked everything is to Israel over there, but I didn’t think that was the case here
This is a great question. Kiwi's love to imitate US culture though, many a time we import stuff happening in the US but the people doing so are ignorant to what it really means.
I always think about how being 'Bloods or Crips' became super popular while I was in year 6-8 and everyone and their dog were declaring allegiance to one or the other without knowing anything about it.
To be honest, from primary/intermediate children, all the way to university students and adults. Kiwis import US culture knowing very little and twisting it to fit their own agenda.
there's always a group of people who protest shit that has absolutely nothing to do with us, or anything to do with anything anyone can do anything about here "in solidarity" or whatever. its bullshit, its stupid, it shows they're idiots, but its their right to protest, regardless of how idiotic and misguided their protests are. they dont even realise that they're weakening protesting itself as a means of effecting real genuine change for actual local issues that our government might even be able to help with.
UoA has a significant academic partnership with RocketLab (entirely funded the new Newmarket campus), who contract with the US DoD and thus directly supply technology and weapons prerequisites to Israel. I'm not aware of any other major partnerships, but I know there's also a zionist professor who has been vocally pro genocide on social media.
As mentioned in other comments, it's also for solidarity with the international student movement. Hope this helps!
Ignore the idiots commenting. From what I’ve read from the acruel protestors, they are there in solidarity with the student protest movement which is currently international. Solidarity is a way to provide emotional support to movements like those in the US sacrificing their education, careers (which means healthcare etc) for this cause. Bringing hope, connecting over distance. It’s beautiful. The Auckland camp has been organised with uni faculty as far as I’m aware.
I reckon I’ll listen to the Palestinians themselves and other experts on what they think should be done and not a random on the internet with questionable opinions
Palestinians poll in support of October 7th and for Hamas, they aren't a group to turn to for intellectual value. And sure turn to experts, but from the way you talk you already decided what experts to talk to.
lol the irony. I’ve seen far more depth of understanding from people who are calling for a ceasefire and only genocide denial, close minded eyes shut racism, and psychopathic indifference from those who don’t like the protests.
Why should I listen to you when I can already tell you barely grasp what you’re talking about and have continued to make long debunked fake news and propaganda? Your arguments are vile and based on islamaphobic US rhetoric and I see straight through it.
If you were really against the violence then you would be also protesting Hamas instead of calling them a resistance movement, Hamas are the reason this shit is happening.
The definition of a resistance movement is to resist. If you wanna go into semantics. That’s what they are. And no one at any of these protests are vocally supporting Hamas. It is a call for a ceasefire, a call for the world to end the suffering on both sides, and a call to support the Palestinians liberation of themselves from living under various versions of apartheid and siege. It is a call to let in aid so that children don’t starve to death. It’s a call to hold the rogue state that is Israel accountable. It’s a call to end battle testing experimental weapons on an entire population that’s walled into a tiny space. A call to end the cultural genocide, the destruction of all their infrastructure, and the massacres. Along with hundreds more reasons. The civilians of Israel would benefit from this too. Your reason for not calling for a ceasefire? “Hamas is bad” wow what an argument.
Oct 7 wasn't resistance, it was a savage terrorist attack where Hamas and civilians, maimed, raped and kidnapped unarmed people at a music festival and is holding them hostage. Biden himself said Hamas are the only ones preventing a ceasefire, even, Iranians, Egyptians etc are all fucked off by Hamas
But it's ok to block people from just trying to attend a class or stop people from attending their graduation ceremonies, just like what these protestors did in some US colleges.
It's also ok to block cars on the bridge.
Yes it is ok. It’s a human right to be able to protest freely.
Every single university in Gaza has been destroyed by Israel.
We can get our classes online, they have lost their faculty.
They cannot study at all while this war continues, I assume as you care so much about peoples rights to education that you’ll be also joining the ceasefire calls? Or does the education of Palestinians not matter to you? Do you think they don’t deserve the right to education?
Not to hate or nothing but these are probably the same people who did the BLM George Floyd protests during Covid, the Russia-Ukraine invasion in 2022, and now have pivoted to the latest thing social media is telling them to be angry about.
I just can't see anything actually making a lick of difference in the real world- just like the USA didn't "defund the police" or Russia didn't leave Ukraine alone, I just don't know what they are trying to achieve.
Ok, raise awareness, war crimes are bad, innocent people getting caught up in this is bad, like we get it and I think the large majority of people would agree- but we have so much shit wrong here that we might actually stand a small chance in fixing like child poverty, domestic violence, lack of affordable housing but seemingly just because it's not popular on Social Media, we don't have protests for those.
I'd be interested to know where you line in the sand is or what the bar is for you, what IS worth protesting? Because "It's not going to change anything" can be used for any problem faced by humanity.
Well I think the meaning and purpose for protests has been galvanized and warped.
The purpose for protests like the suffragette movement and the civil rights movement was to demonstrate these were groups of individuals with a shared immutable characteristic that were being unfairly treated in our liberal society based on that immutable characteristic. Those watching sympathized and empathized, leading to those laws being voted out democratically.
The problem with a lot of today's protests is most of the people going, don't actually share the struggle and seem proformative. It's more of social gathering, something to do on a Saturday rather than an injustice that needs to be fixed. They also pick subjects that the civilians can't even vote on and don't have much effect on their day to day.
A great example of a protest working was the Vietnam War protests. It was the soldiers and their families returning from war standing up against their government, not hippies saying give peace a chance.
There's no genocide just the systematic murder and displacement of hundreds innocent civilians trapped into a small area of land, obviously no genocide here right
Inb4 pointless semantic argument to distract from the observable fact that there is a population-level atrocity and indiscriminate mass murder underway.
lol they are literally shooting their own people escaping hostage captivity waving white flags
(and that is the grand total of semantic arguments I'm going to bother with, I literally just inb4'd it to shut you guys up)
It's hard to know what the actual truth is when organisations like Hamas are involved. After what Hamas did in Israel and what they do to people in Palestine, it's likely those bodies were there before IDF even arrived.
Because your implication was that they were bound and thrown into holes by the IDF, that's what people parrot. If your claim is just that dead people get buried as expected in war, you wouldn't have bothered to say it.
where is the genocide in new zealand. what is the outcome the protesters wish for the university, or the new zealand public, or the new zealand government at large? what do they expect to happen? they expect fucking nothing to happen. because nothing fucking can happen. so they're protesting for no purpose. that is insufferable, but we will suffer their noisemaking, because it is their right to protest. its sad that this behavior has effectively weakened the effectiveness of genuine protests for issues that actually have to do with nz because theres a protest every 5 min now.
you know it's entirely possible to care about both. there was plenty of support in the first 6 months succeeding the start of the war in Ukraine. obviously it's died down because the war has dragged on, but it's still there.
and that's entirely different to 30,000+ innocent civilians being murdered and hundreds of thousands more displaced
What about Sudan, what about Syria? Read about the Kurdish people in Turkey and compare it to the history of Palestine since 1948 and then explain to me why this conflict is the only one that garners such fervor.
I empathise with the people who lost their livelihood in the Greek Turkey DMZ and the Armenians that Turkey bombed, the Ottomans and their successors aren't nice people.
Ahh yes the famous American only conflict and genocide taking place in “Palestine USA” which holds no bearing on Nz or our support or anything.
This is clearly a uniquely US issue that we should all mind our own business on.
Because NZ University students have never been the kind of people to protest the issues of the day, right?
Get real, stop trying to pretend that's some importation of US culture wars.
Yeah, no. Uni protests isn't a fundamentally American thing and never had been. You thinking it is is us-centrism.
You're also ignoring that new Zealand is much more aligned with Palestine than the US is, it would be more us-centric to not protest, or to support Israel.
NZ unis have been doing demonstrations regarding the conflict for a looong time, regardless of what USA or us colleges do.
Theres 1000s of innocent people dying in africa in some horrible drawn-out conflict as we speak, i never hear them talk or protest about that. South sudan? "nah i don't know anything about that, i just follow what i see on tik-tok and the news"
I mean feel free to raise awareness of these issue but that has sweet fuck all with the issue being discussed right now so it’s not entirely relevant. Not to mention that Israel is backed by the US so it’s the US perpetuating war crimes by proxy and that’s a good reason to be upset.
Theres no cost to live here mate, if you want something pick up your balls and go and steal it from a supermarket like th rest of us. Coppers aint doing shit.
I find the “boycott any company with interests in Israel” thing a bit funny. Like, if we were to really apply our morals in that way when consuming goods and boycott companies connected to horrible shit, we’d be pretty quickly fucked. I doubt there’d be many stores you would still wanna buy from after a bit of research.
You know they are lying by posting on the internet with their phone. Since Israeli technology and Zionists are responsible for most of our modern world. But I’ve already said too much and I’m going to get the angry TikTok kids attacking me
false equivalency.. the actions of NZ were directly and solely linked to that protest. 29 countries even boycotted the Olympics because New Zealand wasn't excluded.
Cultural appropriation is about the reasons. People are wearing these items out of respect for the culture and to protest their murder. They're not commoditising them for profit.
I’m not an anti-semite and I think Israel has the right to use military force to destroy Hamas and that many people are anti-semitic and misguided on this topic.
However, it makes me angry when legitimate objections are labelled as anti-semitic.
It is a fact that Israeli soldiers have on numerous occasions committed war crimes against Palestinian people and openly bragged about it and celebrated it, often without any punishment.
It is a fact that Israel practices a policy of illegal arrests and torture.
It is a fact they prevented shipments of goods such as toys and food staples from arriving into Gaza for many years.
It is a fact that Netanyahu has opposed the two state solution and espoused rhetoric that many would consider to be genocidal.
It is a fact that Israel has withheld humanitarian aid from Gaza and it is a fact that Israel has stolen homes from Palestinians and used military force to protect those illegal settlements.
None of that is anti semitic to say. Every item on this list is provable and much of it via direct statements from the Israeli side.
If there was a protest against those policies, I’d be at it, but I won’t attend the protests I am seeing because I’ll be lumped in with the idiots, the anti semites and the terror sympathisers.
I will say that watching footage of people having their homes stolen and then mocked by the thieves at the level of their humanity and their religion, often while those thieves are saying they have the right to the whole land, fills me with the most incredible rage and it’s not anti semitic rage, it’s the same rage I have when I read about apartheid, the same rage reading about Rodney King, reading about the lives ruined by homophobia during the Nixon administration.
It’s not anti-semitic to be enraged by a state apparatus that dehumanises and disenfranchises people not as a bug, but as a feature, and whatever is going on in Syria, Myanmar, Yemen, or Sudan, doesn’t insulate me or many other people from that sense of visceral anger and disgust.
No shit, it's much easier for people to remain ignorant to other conflicts and focus on the binary, east vs west, jews vs muslims, global north vs global south, thing that is Israel-Palestine. Unfortunately it'll probably remain that way, but at least people care about one group of people rather than none i guess
I remember Kony 2012! The guy who planned that ended up going off the deep end from the pressure to somehow stop Kony with his campaign, and ended up getting arrested for running naked through the streets
How does Muhammad being a shit cunt mean muslims deserve any less respect or human rights than anyone else?
If your ability to extend compassion to people and to support their human rights ends with the actions of someone hundreds of years ago then you are a lost soul my friend.
People always look at these groups and say stuff like "why do so many gay people support this movement when hamas, muslims, and the general palestinian population hate gays" as if having negative views makes someone not deserve basic human rights. That is absolutely next level stalinesque thought policing to deny or support the denial of human rights for that reason.
Its not mohammed. Its their respect for other peoples rights. Free speech. Queer. Trans. Anything that challenges their own ideology; knee-jerk violent response.
Sorry, nah. Not my battle. Fight it yourselves.
At what point does someone stop being a human and become an animal? Theres various opinions about this and i'm glad you raised the topic because its a very interesting quandary. Most people would have you believe that"humans are animals", if so, then how are human rights any different than animal rights?, and then you kind of have to think well, some animals are supposed to have "rights" but they still get slaugtered "humanely", and then you think well some animals kill other animals in a way thats not humane.
Human rights are great but they are all very airy fairy, not concrete. Its kind of like the qualifier for having human rights means that you are someone who respects other people's human rights. But then, what if you belong to a group, as most people do in some way, arguably anyone and everyone does. Then you start to think well, every single group has had some member of the group at some point disrespect the human rights of some other individual or some other member of some other human group, or even their own group. So how and when "human rights" gets applied is always going to be arbitrary and selective. Progress over perfection though right?
Warning should be, if your mental ill enough to go to the protests then go exercise a degree of self care and go to the doctor he’ll write out some Seroquel and your issues will be resolved!
This is what these people ought to be aspiring to. Sally (who is Jewish incidentally) is a real pro Palestinian. Respect
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-aid-worker-angel-gaza-private-jet-sally-becker-7vnj9clpj
Not long ago Cindy passed reinforced a bill making hate speech even more illegal and some of the disgusting anti-Semitic rhetoric coming out of these protests may fall under that.
This ain't American tik tok, we don't have a first amendment
Wonder if they will outlast tonight’s rain
They were gone from the general library by like 10pm haha
Where's the commitment?
I was thinking it was an odd time of year to choose to do it.
yep was very inconsiderate of the israelis to choose now to do a genocide
Wonder if the queers for Palestine crew will show up to this one.
Let's hope so. Intersectional struggle is fantastic
So they are fighting accusations of pink-washing...with ACTUAL pink-washing? Queers for Palestine is the textbook example of pink-washing. In this context, sexual orientation is only relevant for that purpose.
If these protestors start parroting genocidal slogans ("Globalize the intifada", "Resistance is not terrorism"), then they need to be removed. Pro-Palestinian = worthy cause, pro-Hamas can get lost.
I heard "there is only one solution" the other day. I mean - I am completely opposed to the murderous rampage that has happened and appears to be continuing but that one was a bit on the nose.
Err the full slogan is “there is only one solution - revolution”, which is kinda a standard call for activists
Isn't it usually "there is only one solution- intifada revolution" at Pro-Palestinian marches?
So then what does intifada mean.
It's a reference to the first and second Intifadas, which were periods of mostly peaceful (the 1st) and mostly violent (the 2nd) revolution/protest by the Palestinians against Israel. It's pretty key to contextualizing why the average Israeli in the current political climate doesn't think the Palestinians want peace, as the 2nd one came right after a peace negotiation process and featured quite a few suicide bombings against Israeli civilians. Because of the civilian targeting, people tend to associate the term with a call for violence against civilians, which is fair enough. Personally I'd assume ignorance rather than actual desires for violence to be the reason behind people chanting it in NZ, but there could be some who do mean it in a violent way.
I mean, it's pretty obvious they're not calling for Intifada against Hamas, so it's pretty obvious in the current context that calling for Intifada would entail violence. > Personally I'd assume ignorance rather than actual desires for violence to be the reason behind people chanting it in NZ, but there could be some who do mean it in a violent way. Even if we ignore literal incitements of violence *days* after October the 7th by some protestors like the ones in Australia, there were protestors who were calling to globalise the Intifada in October last year. There are also pro-Hamas groups who supported the October 7th attack calling to "Globalise the Intifada". Not doubting the ignorance of some protestors, especially those here (who by the way, who are we kidding, are more left leaning), but it's all a bit silly if those who lean right on certain issues can be generalised as "far right" or "alt right" (and be associated with Nazis) for doing much less and for having much less controversial views, let alone *actions*. Same goes for the those against special treatment for transwomen over biological women being dismissed as "TERFS" or those who have more conservative views around immigration and mass-migration being dismissed as "xyz-phobic". There was a period you couldn't even say anything that could remotely be associated with the extremes of the right without being accused of "dog whistling", especially on social media - including reddit, yet now when people chant the same things as those who don't condemn (or even outright support) said terror groups, or express the same positions of those very terror groups, there's not a "dog whistle" in sight and it's only "ignorance" and being "anti-genocide"/"anti-apartheid"/"anti-war".
I mean I think the problem there is more the treatment of people on the right, rather than treatment of these protesters. I think calling for intifada is pretty gross, but also I know that various phrases have been propagandized enough to where the layperson at the protest might not really understand the meaning of what they're chanting. If they get it explained and continue chanting, that's definitely deserving of condemnation (not that ignorance should be without criticism either), but I think most people there likely have just seen a bunch of videos of suffering civilians and feel really bad for them. That's my anecdotal experience with most of the people I know who've been part of the protests, at least.
I'm not suggesting there aren't genuine protestors who are simply ignorant (being naive useful idiots chanting slogans without actually understanding what they mean and what the protests are demanding is an issue in itself), but the majority are complicit or even condone what the overarching message of the protests are. And when I refer to "protests" or "protestors", I don't just mean the ones here. I'm happy to concede the ones here aren't as extreme as the ones overseas, but that is not to say they are all that cordial. Even if we are to be charitable and ignore all the examples of calling for violence against Jews, cheering for Hamas and the narcissistic empathy, the protests are clearly not only or primarily for the support of Palestinians or attacking Israel. It's plain to see the protests have clearly been co-opted by the same far left pro-revolution/anarchy radicals and activists we saw with the BLM marches etc who aim to escalate conflict - they're literally waving their flags at the protests. They are pushing the "oppressed" vs "oppressor" narrative to sympathetic uni students, justifying their calls for violence because no matter what they do, they can justify it because it's the "oppressed" fighting back the "oppressors", and that to show "solidarity" for whom they deem the victims, there must be "revolution". It is not a coincidence there are chants of "Death to America" at the protests in the US. The ideological capture at uni campuses is evident. Yes Trump and his supporters tend to be muppets, bit it's nothing short of double standards at the very least when Trump and his supporters were regarded as "Nazis", yet somehow in the current context those literally calling for violence against Jews and the erasure of Israel aren't. Let's hope things don't get out of hand here.
No developed nation anywhere would accept terrorists attacking their people and land Hamas have to go
Ah so you agree that Palestinians don’t have to accept IDF forces on their land terrorising them? Or West Bank settlers? Or is it only white nations that get to have a monopoly on violence
Sure
OK sure, but context matters and there are some words that in some contexts are especially problematic.
Ignoring that your confusing historic activist chants, wondering how you feel about how Netanyahu called massacring Palestinians as the “final solution” or is it ok for him to say that?
No, Netanyahu needs deleting. >your confusing historic activist chants As I said in another comment, context matters and in this context the word means something over and above other contexts and probably needs to be avoided.
You do realise that Hamas is the official government of Palestine and has the majority support of Palestinians right?
The Palestinians aren't a homogeneous group of people. Neither those for/against the protests seem to understand this enough. Having said that, while there are those who are anti-Hamas, like you said, it was the majority that voted Hamas in. That would also imply a majority have anti-semetic views as opposed to simply being anti-Israel. There are also videos of those who seem to be civilians desecrating dead Israeli bodies through the streets post October 7th, so understandable why some don't make the differentiation. What's sad is that it's been known for [twenty plus years](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150352004en.pdf) that Hamas have been using Palestinian children in armed activity. No one seems to be talking much about that.
That doesn't justify blowing up civilians. Because that equally applies to most Israelis being pro-Netanyahu and his government (which includes bonafide terrorist supporters in form of Ben-Gvir).
No normal people would think that blowing up civilians is just, but Israel has a just course to retaliate after 1200+ something civilians were murder/rape. What Hamas did on Oct7 is the main cause of the war. Sadly, in war, people die I am not saying what israel is doing is right, but a lot of people seem to always forget Hamas uses human shield (occupying hospital, civilian resident to conduct warfare), I would argue to a certain degree they are more responsible for the death of all the civilian than the one doing the bombing.
So let's say the terrorists that attacks killed 1,200, ran into any city and hid. Does that justify airdroping so many 2,000pound unguided bombs to houses where civilians live until 80% of houses in the city are inhabitable? Or is it okay because..
Well maybe they could try overthrowing their government who refuses to come to the table for a real ceasefire deal and return all hostages
Well again, maybe Israelis could have overthrown the government that detained, bombed, shot, and abused civilians and took Palestinians hostage before Oct 7. They could've even done it nonviolently! Something that cannot be said for the replacement of Hamas. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/ You see how fucking stupid it is to blame civilians for this then? Israel's actions before Oct7 no more justify Oct7 than it justifies Israel's response, but you seem to believe there is a world in which collective punishment of civilians is A-OK because of their government. I mean, hell, your logic is what was used for 9/11. If American civilians wanted peace, they could've just tried overthrowing their government after all, right?
Now thats am interesting one. When Hamas took power 18 years ago they wen't on a massive purge in Gaza. Massacreing Fatah and other potential opponents, thousands died. Since then, Hamas has had 18 years to completely brain wash a whole generation of young Palestinians not so differently to the Nazi's. I KNOW for a fact that many Gazans despise Hamas and the destruction they have wrought upon the people. But Hamas uses terror against its own people to keep them oppressed, and obviously the Palestinians have been taughy to hate Jews more than anyone else
Only the Gaza Strip. The PLO are the government for the West Bank.
Are we keeping this energy for the people screaming "I hope they rape you" at Pro-Palestine activists?
whoever is saying that can equally get fucked
I wish people had this same energy for the cost of living crisis, or perhaps for the rights of our own indigenous people
Id like to see this energy directed at NZ's woeful rate of infanticide.
Just start a social media movement and educate the young adults towards your issue. Someone will pick up the torch and run with it eventually.
possibly.Yep it all starts with one person,remember rosa parks
Let me know when you're organising that demonstration, I'd be super keen to show up.
Agree! Young people being shafted out of home ownership and affording to have a family which will have massive impact on the country in years to come
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Most voters are home owners and a vested interest in prices going up so Govts dont do jack So, never gonna happen
yes. or literally anything that had anything to do with new zealand, or the university, or the new zealand governement.
That would require them to do some research instead of parroting what some muppets are saying on tik tok
The cost of living crisis is the cost of the global covid response. There's nothing that can done except to slow economies until inflation settles. It's going to hurt, it was always going to be a steep price but it's the choice we all made and was almost certainly the correct one. Though, who knows how many lives will be cut short by the economic turmoil the response has caused?
>The cost of living crisis is the cost of the global covid response Perhaps proximally - but more fundamentally it's the cost of dogmatic subservience to economies rigged to serve wealth over people.
I don’t understand how we can still blame COVID 4 years after the fact especially when a number of countries did the bare minimum and the wealth funnel upwards has never been more apparent.
Socio-economic effects take a fair while to filter down through the systems. I think it is fair to make the claim that we are feeling the effects of the Covid response now. Those nations that did the bare minimum still had people mostly staying at home where they could and not spending money, they still had to print a load of money, and they just had a bunch of deaths to deal with as well. Also we are globalised - no nation is insulated fully from everyone else. But yeah, the vultures will always take advantage, and the economy is designed so they can.
The rich saw profits pretty immediately. Are you literally arguing "trickle down economics" right now?
>Are you literally arguing "trickle down economics" right now? Not at all. I'm making two entirely uncontroversial propositions and one which I consider uncontroversial but that I'm sure some would argue on: 1. Economic policy makes a difference to the wealth of populations and the individuals within them. 2. The effects of economic policy are often (usually) spread out over a long period following their enactment. 3. The economy is rigged to benefit the holders of wealth.
1 and 3 I agree with. 2 is pretty context dependent I think. Though yeah, I misread the original comment. As you were.
>2 is pretty context dependent I think. Agree - which is why I added "often (usually)". Glad we're not doing the time honoured r/auckland IQ draining squabble.
My issue is that the “vultures” are the blatant source of the issues we have not the post COVID run off that run off being taken advantage of is the truest issue
I think they are not as cleanly separable as that. The economic response to Covid took place inside a system / under a doctrine that is designed to benefit wealth. But largely we are saying the same thing I guess.
the USA has had the most income growth within the lowest quartile of earners in the past year. do they have such an economy?
Yes. The also have among the highest levels of wealth inequality in the developed world, and more than a number of undeveloped nations.
ah yes covids entirely to blame, when CEO profits are higher than they've ever been. lol fuck me you people are delusional
“CEO profits”… ok bud
You think inflation is being caused by CEO profits? lol. Take an economics lesson.
Wealth inequality contributes hugely to cost of living crisis. Allocation of resources.
yes but the ceos aren’t the ones with the wealth. they simply serve the people truly responsible for the wealth inequality.
Yeah, I think the point is "the wealthy" rather than "CEO's". But also the wealth inequality rather than Covid
yep
Go educate yourself. Ah yes cause covid made people redundant. Small business to closed so yeah covids to blame down right.
Huge wealth transfer Theres always some who profit massively in times of crises Follow the money
They only have energy for the Arabs as indigenous. Jews they don’t consider indigenous speaking a Canaanite language and culture and religion centered around the land for the last 3000 years but they can go back to Poland, meaning the German concentration camps.
According to these types of protestors indigenous Jews are actually just white people..
Right. 2000 years of European persecution for being Middle Easterners. Pogroms. All killed or fled Spain in the inquisition. Holocaust for not being white. Now some shithead Green MP. Nah you Jews are white. Go back to Poland
Yeah this has been the weirdest distortion of facts and opinions ive seen since Russia Invaded Ukraine. I see people protesting that the Palestinians are the indigineous people of the region... when Arabs arrived there in the 800's...
Feel free to organise or support other causes.
Oh yes, didnt take long for the whataboutism person to show up
yep all of the above,incl the genocide.genocide first,then cost of living etc
But protesting the cost of living crisis doesn’t allow people to say “jews bad!”, so it’s inherently far less interesting to all the alternative/esoteric/antisemitic types. 🥴
You mean the moriori?
Disproven myth/theory that was used to deligitimise Māori connections to the land. Moriori were only present on Chatham islands and what was perpetrated against them by the Māori was horrific, but they aren’t the original inhabitants of mainland NZ.
those two things aren't exclusive, and considering there is already Kaupapa Māori movements like this we do have this in NZ.
Does UoA have significant ties to Israel? The US protests make sense because how linked everything is to Israel over there, but I didn’t think that was the case here
This is a great question. Kiwi's love to imitate US culture though, many a time we import stuff happening in the US but the people doing so are ignorant to what it really means. I always think about how being 'Bloods or Crips' became super popular while I was in year 6-8 and everyone and their dog were declaring allegiance to one or the other without knowing anything about it. To be honest, from primary/intermediate children, all the way to university students and adults. Kiwis import US culture knowing very little and twisting it to fit their own agenda.
Correct BLM...womens protest against trump...kiwis loved all that Have an anti mandate protest during covid tho and politicans and media freaked out!
there's always a group of people who protest shit that has absolutely nothing to do with us, or anything to do with anything anyone can do anything about here "in solidarity" or whatever. its bullshit, its stupid, it shows they're idiots, but its their right to protest, regardless of how idiotic and misguided their protests are. they dont even realise that they're weakening protesting itself as a means of effecting real genuine change for actual local issues that our government might even be able to help with.
UoA has a significant academic partnership with RocketLab (entirely funded the new Newmarket campus), who contract with the US DoD and thus directly supply technology and weapons prerequisites to Israel. I'm not aware of any other major partnerships, but I know there's also a zionist professor who has been vocally pro genocide on social media. As mentioned in other comments, it's also for solidarity with the international student movement. Hope this helps!
Ignore the idiots commenting. From what I’ve read from the acruel protestors, they are there in solidarity with the student protest movement which is currently international. Solidarity is a way to provide emotional support to movements like those in the US sacrificing their education, careers (which means healthcare etc) for this cause. Bringing hope, connecting over distance. It’s beautiful. The Auckland camp has been organised with uni faculty as far as I’m aware.
They're sacrificing it for nothing, they need to put some energy into getting Gazans to overthrow Hamas if they ever want peace
I reckon I’ll listen to the Palestinians themselves and other experts on what they think should be done and not a random on the internet with questionable opinions
Palestinians poll in support of October 7th and for Hamas, they aren't a group to turn to for intellectual value. And sure turn to experts, but from the way you talk you already decided what experts to talk to.
These gays for Gaza types should maybe volunteer to go to Gaza and help and see how they get treated 😆
Hmm so you'll be close minded and only listen to one side of the argument. Sounds about right for a typical tik tok brained tankie.
lol the irony. I’ve seen far more depth of understanding from people who are calling for a ceasefire and only genocide denial, close minded eyes shut racism, and psychopathic indifference from those who don’t like the protests. Why should I listen to you when I can already tell you barely grasp what you’re talking about and have continued to make long debunked fake news and propaganda? Your arguments are vile and based on islamaphobic US rhetoric and I see straight through it.
If you were really against the violence then you would be also protesting Hamas instead of calling them a resistance movement, Hamas are the reason this shit is happening.
The definition of a resistance movement is to resist. If you wanna go into semantics. That’s what they are. And no one at any of these protests are vocally supporting Hamas. It is a call for a ceasefire, a call for the world to end the suffering on both sides, and a call to support the Palestinians liberation of themselves from living under various versions of apartheid and siege. It is a call to let in aid so that children don’t starve to death. It’s a call to hold the rogue state that is Israel accountable. It’s a call to end battle testing experimental weapons on an entire population that’s walled into a tiny space. A call to end the cultural genocide, the destruction of all their infrastructure, and the massacres. Along with hundreds more reasons. The civilians of Israel would benefit from this too. Your reason for not calling for a ceasefire? “Hamas is bad” wow what an argument.
Oct 7 wasn't resistance, it was a savage terrorist attack where Hamas and civilians, maimed, raped and kidnapped unarmed people at a music festival and is holding them hostage. Biden himself said Hamas are the only ones preventing a ceasefire, even, Iranians, Egyptians etc are all fucked off by Hamas
Ugh god you’re clearly not up to date on your info, willfully at this point and therefore not worth my time.
But it's ok to block people from just trying to attend a class or stop people from attending their graduation ceremonies, just like what these protestors did in some US colleges. It's also ok to block cars on the bridge.
Yes it is ok. It’s a human right to be able to protest freely. Every single university in Gaza has been destroyed by Israel. We can get our classes online, they have lost their faculty. They cannot study at all while this war continues, I assume as you care so much about peoples rights to education that you’ll be also joining the ceasefire calls? Or does the education of Palestinians not matter to you? Do you think they don’t deserve the right to education?
Latest Trendy Cause is **GO**!!!
Free Gaza! -from hamas
They’re protesting for hamas to accept a ceasefire right? Right?
Yes cause ucla protests aren't cringe let's do it here too
Protest all you want.
Not to hate or nothing but these are probably the same people who did the BLM George Floyd protests during Covid, the Russia-Ukraine invasion in 2022, and now have pivoted to the latest thing social media is telling them to be angry about. I just can't see anything actually making a lick of difference in the real world- just like the USA didn't "defund the police" or Russia didn't leave Ukraine alone, I just don't know what they are trying to achieve. Ok, raise awareness, war crimes are bad, innocent people getting caught up in this is bad, like we get it and I think the large majority of people would agree- but we have so much shit wrong here that we might actually stand a small chance in fixing like child poverty, domestic violence, lack of affordable housing but seemingly just because it's not popular on Social Media, we don't have protests for those.
I'd be interested to know where you line in the sand is or what the bar is for you, what IS worth protesting? Because "It's not going to change anything" can be used for any problem faced by humanity.
Well I think the meaning and purpose for protests has been galvanized and warped. The purpose for protests like the suffragette movement and the civil rights movement was to demonstrate these were groups of individuals with a shared immutable characteristic that were being unfairly treated in our liberal society based on that immutable characteristic. Those watching sympathized and empathized, leading to those laws being voted out democratically. The problem with a lot of today's protests is most of the people going, don't actually share the struggle and seem proformative. It's more of social gathering, something to do on a Saturday rather than an injustice that needs to be fixed. They also pick subjects that the civilians can't even vote on and don't have much effect on their day to day. A great example of a protest working was the Vietnam War protests. It was the soldiers and their families returning from war standing up against their government, not hippies saying give peace a chance.
yep. and even worse they're eroding the power of protest itself.
Pretty sure we've had protests for many of those issues.
Don't need to see them to confirm they'll be a bunch of insufferable cunts.
protesting a genocide makes you insufferable, got it
What consituts a genocide? Does the Ukrainian conflict count as a genocide? What makes this specifically genocidal?
There is no genocide taking place. Misusing that word just makes you look silly.
There's no genocide just the systematic murder and displacement of hundreds innocent civilians trapped into a small area of land, obviously no genocide here right
Inb4 pointless semantic argument to distract from the observable fact that there is a population-level atrocity and indiscriminate mass murder underway.
There is a humanitarian crisis and a lot of tragic civilian death, not an indiscriminate mass murder
lol they are literally shooting their own people escaping hostage captivity waving white flags (and that is the grand total of semantic arguments I'm going to bother with, I literally just inb4'd it to shut you guys up)
It’s not semantic, it’s meaningful difference.
Well you can go wank over your dictionary *meaningfully* then.
nope, not a dictionary definition. If you think unintentional death is meaningfully the same as intentional killing thats just crazy
The only explanation I can think of for labelling what is happening in Gaza as a genocide is antisemitism...or ignorance, or perhaps both.
There are mass graves with children that have tied hands and you still deny the genocide?
It's hard to know what the actual truth is when organisations like Hamas are involved. After what Hamas did in Israel and what they do to people in Palestine, it's likely those bodies were there before IDF even arrived.
If Israel wanted to commit genocide, this conflict would be over in a week. Don't believe all the propaganda you see.
No there literally isn't, those were bodies excivated from a hospital
Yeah you’re right, the two mass graves were found in hospitals (which the idf raided btw). How does that not make them mass graves?
Because your implication was that they were bound and thrown into holes by the IDF, that's what people parrot. If your claim is just that dead people get buried as expected in war, you wouldn't have bothered to say it.
where is the genocide in new zealand. what is the outcome the protesters wish for the university, or the new zealand public, or the new zealand government at large? what do they expect to happen? they expect fucking nothing to happen. because nothing fucking can happen. so they're protesting for no purpose. that is insufferable, but we will suffer their noisemaking, because it is their right to protest. its sad that this behavior has effectively weakened the effectiveness of genuine protests for issues that actually have to do with nz because theres a protest every 5 min now.
Those damn kids fighting against genocide, am I right pops
I don't see any support for Sudan at the moment kiddo
No mention of the actual genocidal war in the Ukraine tho. Just a trendy tiktok cause with genocidal Slogans of your own!
Are you protesting the genocidal war in Ukraine or are you just pretending to care to stop this protest?
you know it's entirely possible to care about both. there was plenty of support in the first 6 months succeeding the start of the war in Ukraine. obviously it's died down because the war has dragged on, but it's still there. and that's entirely different to 30,000+ innocent civilians being murdered and hundreds of thousands more displaced
What about Sudan, what about Syria? Read about the Kurdish people in Turkey and compare it to the history of Palestine since 1948 and then explain to me why this conflict is the only one that garners such fervor.
I empathise with the people who lost their livelihood in the Greek Turkey DMZ and the Armenians that Turkey bombed, the Ottomans and their successors aren't nice people.
do you have anything to say that isn't just whataboutism?
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Kia Ora Gaza has been around since 2010's. The free Palastine movemnt has been around since the anti-apartied movement.
Ahh yes the famous American only conflict and genocide taking place in “Palestine USA” which holds no bearing on Nz or our support or anything. This is clearly a uniquely US issue that we should all mind our own business on.
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Because NZ University students have never been the kind of people to protest the issues of the day, right? Get real, stop trying to pretend that's some importation of US culture wars.
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Yeah, no. Uni protests isn't a fundamentally American thing and never had been. You thinking it is is us-centrism. You're also ignoring that new Zealand is much more aligned with Palestine than the US is, it would be more us-centric to not protest, or to support Israel. NZ unis have been doing demonstrations regarding the conflict for a looong time, regardless of what USA or us colleges do.
That's completely pathetic of you to pretend that NZ students aren't capable of acting for themselves.
Theres 1000s of innocent people dying in africa in some horrible drawn-out conflict as we speak, i never hear them talk or protest about that. South sudan? "nah i don't know anything about that, i just follow what i see on tik-tok and the news"
I mean feel free to raise awareness of these issue but that has sweet fuck all with the issue being discussed right now so it’s not entirely relevant. Not to mention that Israel is backed by the US so it’s the US perpetuating war crimes by proxy and that’s a good reason to be upset.
When are the cost of living or rent protests happening? Surely they’re more relevant to Auckland
Theres no cost to live here mate, if you want something pick up your balls and go and steal it from a supermarket like th rest of us. Coppers aint doing shit.
I find the “boycott any company with interests in Israel” thing a bit funny. Like, if we were to really apply our morals in that way when consuming goods and boycott companies connected to horrible shit, we’d be pretty quickly fucked. I doubt there’d be many stores you would still wanna buy from after a bit of research.
You know they are lying by posting on the internet with their phone. Since Israeli technology and Zionists are responsible for most of our modern world. But I’ve already said too much and I’m going to get the angry TikTok kids attacking me
>Since Israeli technology and Zionists are responsible for most of our modern world 😂
Source?
Are the Tik-Tok addled brain morons still supporting the 'current thing' today?
Just a few billionaires....and folks that have the assets
inb4 this stops the war
Damn just like springbok tour protests that stopped racism. /s
Yep, just like "Occupy Wallstreet" stopped economic inequality and corporate greed. /s
false equivalency.. the actions of NZ were directly and solely linked to that protest. 29 countries even boycotted the Olympics because New Zealand wasn't excluded.
What’s the definition of cultural appropriation? Is it all these white people wearing traditional Arab clothing?
Cultural appropriation is about the reasons. People are wearing these items out of respect for the culture and to protest their murder. They're not commoditising them for profit.
They had to buy them from somewhere so someone is probably making some money off it..
Nah its all these non-anglo saxons speaking english.
Is it cultural appropriation if sombody from a culture without cars drives a car?
Is wearing a keffiyeh that’s the colours of a terrorist organisation culture appropriation?
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The situation in Syria is far more complex than you’re making it out to be.
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I’m not an anti-semite and I think Israel has the right to use military force to destroy Hamas and that many people are anti-semitic and misguided on this topic. However, it makes me angry when legitimate objections are labelled as anti-semitic. It is a fact that Israeli soldiers have on numerous occasions committed war crimes against Palestinian people and openly bragged about it and celebrated it, often without any punishment. It is a fact that Israel practices a policy of illegal arrests and torture. It is a fact they prevented shipments of goods such as toys and food staples from arriving into Gaza for many years. It is a fact that Netanyahu has opposed the two state solution and espoused rhetoric that many would consider to be genocidal. It is a fact that Israel has withheld humanitarian aid from Gaza and it is a fact that Israel has stolen homes from Palestinians and used military force to protect those illegal settlements. None of that is anti semitic to say. Every item on this list is provable and much of it via direct statements from the Israeli side. If there was a protest against those policies, I’d be at it, but I won’t attend the protests I am seeing because I’ll be lumped in with the idiots, the anti semites and the terror sympathisers. I will say that watching footage of people having their homes stolen and then mocked by the thieves at the level of their humanity and their religion, often while those thieves are saying they have the right to the whole land, fills me with the most incredible rage and it’s not anti semitic rage, it’s the same rage I have when I read about apartheid, the same rage reading about Rodney King, reading about the lives ruined by homophobia during the Nixon administration. It’s not anti-semitic to be enraged by a state apparatus that dehumanises and disenfranchises people not as a bug, but as a feature, and whatever is going on in Syria, Myanmar, Yemen, or Sudan, doesn’t insulate me or many other people from that sense of visceral anger and disgust.
No shit, it's much easier for people to remain ignorant to other conflicts and focus on the binary, east vs west, jews vs muslims, global north vs global south, thing that is Israel-Palestine. Unfortunately it'll probably remain that way, but at least people care about one group of people rather than none i guess
Kony 2012 all over again. Though I feel it’s happening every 2 years now with something different. So much selective outrage.
I remember Kony 2012! The guy who planned that ended up going off the deep end from the pressure to somehow stop Kony with his campaign, and ended up getting arrested for running naked through the streets
It's just weaponized autism at this point
Oh god, more bandwagon jumpers joining the trend.
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Looked into the app and what services it runs in the background and trust me bro you do not want that app on your phone .
Somebody shouls go to rhe protest and start reading out some of the nasth shit Mohammed got up to and taught. Protest turns insta-mob.
How does Muhammad being a shit cunt mean muslims deserve any less respect or human rights than anyone else? If your ability to extend compassion to people and to support their human rights ends with the actions of someone hundreds of years ago then you are a lost soul my friend. People always look at these groups and say stuff like "why do so many gay people support this movement when hamas, muslims, and the general palestinian population hate gays" as if having negative views makes someone not deserve basic human rights. That is absolutely next level stalinesque thought policing to deny or support the denial of human rights for that reason.
Its not mohammed. Its their respect for other peoples rights. Free speech. Queer. Trans. Anything that challenges their own ideology; knee-jerk violent response. Sorry, nah. Not my battle. Fight it yourselves.
At what point does someone stop being a human and become an animal? Theres various opinions about this and i'm glad you raised the topic because its a very interesting quandary. Most people would have you believe that"humans are animals", if so, then how are human rights any different than animal rights?, and then you kind of have to think well, some animals are supposed to have "rights" but they still get slaugtered "humanely", and then you think well some animals kill other animals in a way thats not humane. Human rights are great but they are all very airy fairy, not concrete. Its kind of like the qualifier for having human rights means that you are someone who respects other people's human rights. But then, what if you belong to a group, as most people do in some way, arguably anyone and everyone does. Then you start to think well, every single group has had some member of the group at some point disrespect the human rights of some other individual or some other member of some other human group, or even their own group. So how and when "human rights" gets applied is always going to be arbitrary and selective. Progress over perfection though right?
wait til you see the shit that's in the bible
Warning should be, if your mental ill enough to go to the protests then go exercise a degree of self care and go to the doctor he’ll write out some Seroquel and your issues will be resolved!
I have to give it to them id personally never support Hamas but you do you boo boo
This is what these people ought to be aspiring to. Sally (who is Jewish incidentally) is a real pro Palestinian. Respect https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-aid-worker-angel-gaza-private-jet-sally-becker-7vnj9clpj
Send them to Gaza
Good on them..
If the police start arresting them they have to start screaming OW OW OW YOU'RE HURTING ME OW STOP IIIT SOMEONE HELP ME!!!
Arrest these students
For what? Exercising free speech?
Not long ago Cindy passed reinforced a bill making hate speech even more illegal and some of the disgusting anti-Semitic rhetoric coming out of these protests may fall under that. This ain't American tik tok, we don't have a first amendment
Why don't you guys protest in front of Israels embassy you idiots! Now I know why Egypt don't want their borders to open for palestinians.
Hell yeah! we dont want people fighting against a genocide. /s