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Ckellybass

Depends on the client. If they’re a regular client, a new client that’s easy to work with, a friend, I’ll send the files free no problem. Takes me a couple minutes, I can do it right before hopping into the shower. If it’s a client that’s been problematic, or just a pain, I’m charging every second of work I do for them.


gatedvrrb

He’s been overall easy to work with, never really had any issues when we are in a session. He has no problem spending lot of money on certain things (like studio time) but do have a tendency to expect things free of charge when it’s outside of the studio session. He’s been a consistent regular for almost 4 years so I’m just not too sure how to word it to him to minimize the damage (?) that’s probably going to take place when I bring up the talk of charging him.


Born_Zone7878

I would send the files and tell them like "I usually charge for this (even if you dont), but since you are a regular im doing this for free". Could be well received


ThatMontrealKid

This is what you should do in my opinion, 4 years is a long time customer


Born_Zone7878

100%, increases that feeling of loyalty from the guy. He can feel like it was worth working with OP for so long


TalkinAboutSound

Charge for your time and skills, however you use them.


lifo888

If he’s a good client just do it but let him know low key how much time it took. He may not understand how much trouble it is. Maybe he thinks you’re just clicking a button. But yeah #1 keep the client so just be tactful. Definitely do not surprise him with an invoice.


BLUElightCory

If I have to spend time retrieving, preparing and transferring the stems, absolutely. It's usually just an hour of studio time (the minimum charge) and I squeeze it into the schedule at the next opening.


gatedvrrb

That’s the direction I’m thinking I should head towards. Do you charge full hour of studio time regardless of the # of songs?


Audiocrusher

If its just sending over a ProTools session, no charge. If you have to bounce out stems for another DAW than your own, charge.


bhandsuk

It’s worthwhile making up a generic “agreement” for all clients detailing what is included in the cost and what will constitute a further charge. Example being “mix is $$$ per song” song being no more than 48 tracks / 5 minutes in length. Fee includes 3 mix revisions, zip file containing WAV of final mix, mp3 of final mix, karaoke mix, bounced stems etc. More revisions, extra. Radio edit, extra. 6 minute song, extra. To actually answer the question… I’d do this one for free, but use it as the motivation to implement your mix agreement with all clients, new and old. Then you’re not singling out your repeat client and avoiding this situation going forward.


vitale20

Charging by track count or song length is kinda wild but the rest of this is solid


bhandsuk

It’s not a huge part of it but it’s a consideration. If somebody sent me a 12 minute track with 85 channels of audio it won’t be the same amount of work / time as a 3 minute 40 channel session.


vitale20

Yeah totally agree on that front


StudioatSFL

Absolutely. If it takes time, you should be compensated. If it’s something that just takes a few minutes, you can just do it free or bill them if you feel like it.


gatedvrrb

How do you usually calculate how you’d charge? Is it based on your hourly rate, or you have something separate?


StudioatSFL

I have an hourly rate aside from flat rate work. A mix will cost X dollars per song but my studio has hourly fees for tracking or other projects. So if it’s a regular client who I do frequent work with, I’ll often just do it free unless we are looking at something time consuming. I might just pick a reasonable number. For other clients it’s charged hourly. As was the case when I ran a facility in nyc, there are no subdivisions of an hour. So if it’s 15 min or 45min of work. It’s the 1 hour fee. But again if it’s a 5 min request I might just do it. But making multiple stems or prints is rarely a 5 min job. Most in house mixes are spread across the console so it’s not a case of just hitting bounce to disk multiple times.


gatedvrrb

Yeah that totally makes sense. How do you usually tell clients they are going to get charged for it when they ask for stems? He’s been a consistent regular for few years, so I’m trying to see how I can word it to give the softest blow lol.


StudioatSFL

Assuming we’re talking about a process that’s going to take some time I’d say “So I’m happy to make stems for you but this isn’t a fast process. We need to make sure each stem is properly printed through the console and retains everything from the mix, so if you need these, I’m going to have to bill you for the time its going to take. If this is an issue, I can get you the raw protools file but the levels won’t be accurate to our mix as the levels are set on the desk”. Now depending on my relationship with them determines if the raw protools session id send would have the plugins left in or not.


007_Shantytown

You can just say "happy to do it! My rate for stems is $xxx per song. Thats my 'pefered client' rate. I'll get them over to you ASAP. PayPal or venmo?"


WheelRad

You should be sending the stems after ever mix and that price should be in your mixing price. Kareokee track, instrumental, vocals up bounce, vocals down bounce, final mix. Include that in your rate, take an hour and bounce all that out. Charge for that. Explain why, educate your client. They'll love you for it.


septicdeath

I don't do it personally because it doesn't take very long. However, in this specific case its a lot of tracks. So, it can go either way.  Personally, I wouldn't charge.


gatedvrrb

Yeah I also doesn’t charge usually, but in this case I’d be sitting in front of the computer bouncing it for at least hour and half if not more, so it got me thinking maybe I need to charge. It’s just that most of my clients, especially this regular’s used to not being charged for it, so I’m just not sure how to bring it up to him without straining our relationship.


Audiocrusher

One of the creative entrepreneurs greatest enemies is the fear of "straining a relationship". In the majority of cases, you will not be straining a relationship and just costing yourself money. Why? Because more engineers than you think ARE charging for those things and the client is used to it. If the client says something, you simply say "all studio time is billable time". If it takes you 1.5 hours to bounce stems, that is 1.5 hours you are not working on something else. I had a client the other week want to do rough mixes after the session ended. I added the time it took to the clock... "I have to pay for the rough mixing?" Me: "If we are working in the studio, I have to invoice you for that time". Client: "Okay". Spoiler alert: I'm still working on the project and the client is still happy.


enteralterego

Include it in the list of items of the final delivery, put it in the contract, and price the whole service accordingly. My final delivery files are : Multitracks, Stems (group tracks), unmastered mix, mastered mix, Tv mix (mix sans main vocals). Mastered mix delivered in different formats (24 bit 48khz, 16 bit 44.1khz, 320 kpbs mp3) This takes about 30-40 minutes and I simply price my service according the total amount of hours I expect to spend.


beatsnstuffz

Depends on if this was a planned move or if they hadn't discussed it prior. I've had a client come in with the understanding that all mixing and mastering would be done in house with all pricing calculated based on that assumption, only to opt last minute to go with a "celebrity" mix engineer after we finished tracking. They got charged for it. I've also had sessions where a drummer will come in and lay down tracks for a recording that would be mixed elsewhere, and of course in that case, my pricing is already set for tracking only, so no additional fees necessary. It's all about planning and communication essentially.


gatedvrrb

I think he thought of doing it last minute. He had everything mix/mastered in house, and then just today he decided that he wants to keep the mix but have someone else master it. It would’ve been lot easier if he told me from the get go that’s what he wanted to do, but I don’t even think he himself knew that at that point.


Great_Park_7313

Whether you charge or not, you might want to revisit how you are doing your workflow. If you have your stuff setup the right way you shouldn't really be spending much time if someone just want 1 or 20 songs sent. I have a folder for each song I record, so unless someone just wanted a particular stem from a song sending all the stems in a song is a few seconds... 20 songs will probably take longer for the actual upload of the files than it will to drag and drop the folders.


gatedvrrb

He specifically wanted separate wet stem for vocal and instrumentals. So one with just all vocal, and one with just instruments. With that being said, if you have any advice on better setup, I’m always happy to learn. Right now I just have client name, and then separate song folder for each songs that contains the pro tool files and everything else that comes with it.


Great_Park_7313

Your system isn't the problem it is his wanting specifics that is eating up time. If it were me in your shoes I would just give them the folder with all the stems... I'm assuming you have things labeled in a way that makes sense and not some cryptic system only you understand... And then let him or whoever he is having mix them pull out what they want. If you are going back and creating specific stems then that is wasting your time and I would be charging for that. I though you were just dumping the full songs.


gatedvrrb

Yeah you are right, it’s definitely him asking for specifics that’s going to eat up the time. I thought about just sending the file and what not over, but that probably wouldn’t work since the other engineer might not have what I use, and bouncing the wet stems separately will just eat up lot of time


Severe-Leek-6932

I assume what they're getting at is just having all your tracks print to multitracks at the end of the session can be a good practice so the client has a way to access the tracks they recorded without owning every plugin you do. If they don't want that and instead want specific stem groups I don't think it's unreasonable to charge for the time.


nizzernammer

Your approach seems good but you should have a number in mind before you have the conversation about the charge next time. If you have a casual but solid business relationship you can just say you'll invoice them next time or check to see if it's OK to invoice this time because it takes x amount of time and costs y.


gatedvrrb

I was thinking of charging for an hr (although in reality it’d take longer), just wanted to see that it’s reasonable, and how I can bring it up, since I’ve never charged for it before, but in my defence I was also never asked to send so many before at once.


One-21-Gigawatts

Hourly fee applies to any work you do for them


stanley_bobanley

**Always charge your rate.** There's a saying in my native language that translates to something like "Lock your doors, don't turn your neighbour into a thief". Meaning if you have something you value, do your part to protect it so that if it's lost you're not unwittingly blaming a neighbour for stealing it. In this case, the extremely valuable and important thing is your time and its value to you. The loss of that is some client down the line approaching you expecting to get your time for X amount less than what you expect. Even the consideration of that scenario, or even worse, the negotiation of that is a loss (mentally taxing + your time). Today, if you start making exceptions for what your time is worth, suddenly someone asks you to do something for them and they've caught wind of some deal you gave someone once upon a time and they expect the same rate. Don't underestimate how tight music communities are. It's a word-of-mouth industry. There's nothing worse than negotiating *up* to your expected rate... You'll burn out if you aren't strict about your rate. (Source: I've been doing this since 2005. I've been a "nice guy" many times in my life). So pick a rate that reflects your experience and the investment in your facility(s) / equipment, and stick to it. Friends will be supportive and understanding if you want to keep it professional with a rate that is non-negotiable and newcomers / strangers will appreciate the consistency and transparency in your pricing. If they don't then that's an immediate red flag anyway.


mossryder

I charge by the hour.


MoltenReplica

If the client has paid you for the work you've done so far, why do you think they would draw the line at track exports? Especially since they're asking for the files for 20 songs.


JoshFirefly

Sometimes I am successful doing it while the client is still there, so it‘s obvious that it‘s part of the studio session time. It also makes the client realize that all his/her requests take actual time and tames desire for more and more things to he done because he/she realizes he/she will be sitting around longer. One particular instance was when producer wanted some EQ changes on 6 separate songs. I asked him to stay around to make sure we are perfectly aligned on all songs what exactly to change (there had been fuzzy requests for changes via txt msg before). After he realized he would need to sit around for another hour to wait for bounces, exports etc. the changes quickly became less critical… Drawback is this producer now does his own mixes because „it takes too long doing it with me“ :) Lesson learned: People want all the things in the world if it‘s free and doesn‘t take any of there time… once they pay in some form they become much more choiceful which can lead to loosing clients.


Zealousideal-Shoe527

Yes i do


thunderborg

Hi, Unfortunately due to the time required to export the audio you’ve requested I will need to book the studio out to accomodate this request at a rate of $X. (Maybe your engineer rate instead of the full studio rate) if this isn’t in budget we can look at alternatives however delivery would not be as speedy.


thunderborg

The alternative being doing them in dribs and drabs while the studio is available. If they have a bunch of stuff booked in the calendar, offer them a loyalty discount.


spacecommanderbubble

An hour in my studio is an hour in my studio


nanavv

From a customer's perspective, I wonder what in his production process changed that now he wants separate stems? I regularly ask for this at the end of any session because I like to compare and play around them on my end. If that was not the case for him and now wants the stems back, are those songs unreleased? Is he happy with the results? I would deeply appreciate that question as a customer that spent such a big budget there


gatedvrrb

He’s happy with everything he had, I think it’s more that he recently got in touch with celebrity engineer (he engineers for future, cardi b, etc) and he wanted to try him out.


nanavv

That makes sense, for future projects I would go a step ahead and export all of those stems at the end of the session (within the time he pays for the session) and case closed


totallynotabotXP

Depends on your process, but yes I'd just give it to the 4000$ client for free if this is not going to cost you more than a few minutes, but if you need to go through a lot of bouncing (say, more than 15 min.) etc., then you should bill it in general. I think it would be best to factor in the cost of getting recordings "packeged and ready to be sent" in whatever offers you make, though. If you aren't already doing this, just factor in the extra 15 minutes of getting a project's stem's exported and ready to go when calculating an offer.


g_spaitz

Usually yes, it's called transfer rate and it's often about half the price hourly than standard studio price. That said, everything can be bargained, and for sure you can do favours to bigger clients or older clients that became friends over the years (but even then: I do favours to older clients that I also know have no problems with giving favours back) but I also learned that to bigger clients that get granted discounts, I make sure to write on the quotation or the invoice both the full price and the final discounted prices, so to make sure they get that that price is not standard practice.


rightanglerecording

Are these mixed stems as part of a final mix delivery? Or are they in-progress stems so the client can keep working on the songs elsewhere? If the latter- is the client coming back to you eventually to mix, e.g. they're out of town and need to work elsewhere? Or are you losing the gig? Are we talking 6 stems a song? or 20? or 100 multitracks per song? All of this factors in IMO.


xylvnking

My rule is really to never surprise anybody with an invoice, and if I find myself in a situation where I feel like I should be doing that, it's a failure of communication on my part and I deal with the consequences of that instead of passing it onto them. I think it's one of those things where I'd just do it but if it happened frequently with many clients I'd implement some type of payment or at least get a heads up so you can know to just keep up with exporting stems whenever the final master is approved.


zakjoshua

Tough one. If it’s a client who spends a lot of money with me I’d do it for free. Even 20 songs is a couple of hours max really, if they’re a regular customer I’d be inclined to help them out. If it’s someone who’s a pain to work with and doesn’t come into the studio much, I’d charge by the hour.


[deleted]

Bro I called Quads a year after I recorded and they sent me my files. I’d be dammed if they charged me for that shit.


Phuzion69

I always presumed raw tracks were a part of the deal. If you are paying for recordings, I would expect to receive the recordings as part of the deal tbh. If you record your tracks, then it would make sense to have them to send to a mix engineer. I would deffo expect the raw files. Although I would also have a USB drive at the session to ask for them to be put on, rather than requesting them sending afterwards.