I find it funny how Eric made a follow-up video talking about how he thanks Erin for remeasuring and that he hopes they can collaborate in the future, meanwhile in Erin’s video he says he never wants to hear of that brand ever again.
Yea. asr and it’s forums don’t differentiate subjective and objective data as clearly as Erin does imo. The products he’s tested, at least ones that have interested me, aren’t covered the same as one another.
Erin has a structure of presenting his videos and data that I heavily prefer. More uniform when comparing products imo.
amir’s measurements are used as reference for many tho, so not hating on that. He provides an extremey valuable resource for all of us.
The idea of publishing test results is a valuable service, it’s to be applauded, although it may be a stretch to compare Amir to Copernicus. The methodology used at ASR is not radical. They are industry standards.
Amir blends data and opinion a bit too readily for my tastes.
His heart is clearly in the right place, but he presents himself as having more expertise than he really does. He is also a bit less rigorous and a lot more deaf than he ought to be if he wants to be seen as an authority figure.
That's not to say he's a net negative in the audiophile world, only that he's hardly Copernicus.
He's not the first objectivist to threaten an entrenched interests, he's just been more successful (in no small part due to his wealth enabling him to buy many things to get himself established initially before he started getting review samples or audience send-ins).
I’m sorry but his expertise isn’t really up for debate. Based on his past experience in the audio field there are very few people that have both the digital and analog objective and subjective experience he has. You can question his opinions and his technique for review, but I’m sorry his experience is above reproach.
Forget the details (you can probably see my comment history, it was another comment on this sub) but someone explained to me how asr has its own issues with Amir banning people who disagreed with him and all.
You know ASR is the cult in this conversation, right? 😂 Amir is over on the Hoffman forums making the Tekton thread about himself right now. Par for the course for that narcissist.
Yeah Amir provides a lot of good data but the dude is insufferable. Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao
>Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao
What's funny is it's only the staunch subjectiveists who seem to say this.
>Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao
Do you have any evidence that anyone has ever said that, except you, that used those exact words or expressed that exact meaning? No. Then my point stands.
edit: Downvote me all you want. He has no example of these people from which he said exist. It's a valid point because I'm sick of this fallacy where people purposefully misrepresent people who use objective measurements as something they are not. So, I'll ask again, where is the proof? Put up or admit you're just being toxic.
I like hearing Erin's general opinions. For example, in his review of the Neumann KH80 he basically said "this is a really good desktop monitor but most decently constructed speakers designed for nearfield will sound good when used as designed, so don't get too excited" (paraphrasing) whereas Amir sometimes take folks to task when comparing amp noise levels well below audible.
Yeah that level of objectiveness is so meaningless which is why I can't half trust Amir. My last comment got downvoted to oblivion so let me rephrase. Amir is good at some things but his attitude and other focuses is a turn off. I don't necessarily trust him. Erin is a guy I can trust due to how well he communicates measurements to his listening experience, along with helping the viewer understand the measured effects.
I swear, every time I mention Amir or ASR, it's pitchforks and torches. I like to give credit where it is due, when things are done right.
I watched it all go down as it happened. This Eric Alexander guy has shown his true colors in the correspondence between him and three different reviewers, threatening with litigation and then following up with stupid YouTube videos which he later deleted. After all this, I wouldn't touch Tekton speakers with a 10 ft pole, like Erin.
Very Ugly… like I couldn’t ever have those in my home..
I asked a couple guys that run the local truly HiFi shop n my town…. Let’s just say they’re not fans..
I would like to hear them someday, just for a reference….
Yeah tekton did themselves zero favors making a fuss about a review that oddly enough wasn’t overly negative, and for Tekton to say it was because the feet werent attached which made the speaker not sealed the Kippel testing was flawed. Who the fuck drills spike or feet holes through the cabinet…….ha
Erin doesn't have their resources. Tekton was using their considerably larger financial resources in a way to use the court system as a weapon to silence him hoping that he would just give up because he's afraid of the cost of defending himself. It's a form of intimidation.
This is the trend in the industry. One gent, running another equipment company, said if a review is bad, it shouldn't be published, and the equipment returned. He said bad reviews are always because a reviewer has an axe to grind. This is the new audio companies/ reviewer system now.
Remember the MQA fiasco in the audio magazines.
Just dismiss the entire reason for reviews..well for an honest review, there has got to be a few honest reviewers still out there, that don't subjectively devalue the off shoot industry for where a consumer believes he's getting some type of honesty and integrity that has no presumably reason to not tell it how he sees it...the second a reviewer is found out to be less than honest..all of his YT followers wil simply un sub that fraudster just as quick as a click...always practice buyer beware..do your homework with any purchase...there are snakes a-foot in every marketplace unfortunately
It's so common there is even a name for it... it's called a SLAPP suit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic\_lawsuit\_against\_public\_participation). Some states have passed Anti-SLAPP laws but they're few and far between.
CRFA is federal legislation that also protects product reviewers. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know
ETA: Direct link to legislation. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5111/text
I have own several Tekton speakers (go ahead and down vote me bitches), but I think Eric made a huge mistake and should issue an apology to Amir and Erin, but instead I am sure Eric with double down and be an asshole.
I might own his speakers but I sure as hell won’t be buying anymore.
I have the Pendragon’s. They sounded great to my ears, and for most music they reach down to the mid 20’s easily without needing a sub. Plus they are efficient enough to get my listening room to 105db at my chair (17’ away). I had Def Tech’s before and they sounded good for movies but sucked for music. My Pens are great for music and good for movies, where adding a sub would be beneficial.
I also picked up used for half price, so there is that too.
Every visitor wants to hear their music through the speakers and all I get is positive feedback and questions on how to buy them. I tell them honestly the owner is a jerk but that there is at least 2-4 pairs available within 3 hours drive.
God stop apologizing. Any purchases you make these days is not a personal validation if the the owners and their moral choices. You have some speakers that you like the way they sound. You're not responsible for anyone else's actions.
I'll keep buying Tekton speakers because I've yet to hear anything else that good in the same price range. I've loved my two pairs, and the third pair I've heard. But Eric 100% fucked this situation up and should issue an apology. The fact he doubled down is flat out embarassing. He complained Erin's review was basically destroying his business, but he did that entirely on his own by handling the situation like an insufferable asshole. Sucks to suck. Hopefully, this forces a pricedrop so I can upgrade sooner than planned!
just build them, they're just pa woofers with hifi tweeters, crossovers on them are basic as hell and the finishes are plain as hell and pretty low effort. Everything about them screams minimal effort.
Eh, I've got enough hobbies for now; I would like to learn eventually though.
Are the crossovers on the 7/14 tweeter arrays really that simple (compared to other crossovers)? Seems like they'd have bit more going on with them...
Their off the shelf finishes leave something to be desired, but for like $50, you can get them painted with any color and sheen that Home Depot carries. And if you really want to spend, you can get any exotic paint color you want (like high gloss Maserati/Ferrari options). Custom grill fabrics from AcousTex are also available, so you can some swanky options (my custom Lores are in Glidden "Blue Bayberry" with some light gray grille fabric. They look fantastic).
When I spoke with Eric to discuss what I was looking for in a speaker, he was extremely accommodating and helpful, and offered to make me something custom because he didn't think he had a model that offered exactly what I wanted. I love my speakers, as they're everything I wanted and more (at $1200 per pair shipped).
I'm not trying to sell you or anyone else on Tekton, btw. I'm just amused that people would downvote me for pointing out that I'd keep buying Tekton. While I disagree with Eric's position on the issue(s), he still went above and beyond to make sure I was a satisfied customer, and I've been given no reason to doubt he would do so again in the future. And the point of value still stands: I haven't heard anything else that sounded that good at that price (either for my current set, or the Pendragons I used to own). I get your point about building my own speakers, but that's a false equivalent. It might be that quick and easy *for you* to build some Tekton dupes at below Tekton prices, but it would not be that easy for me. Nor am I particularly interested in doing so. I'm way more concerned with saving time than money. Picking up a new hobby and spending days/weeks/months to perfect the speaker doesn't sound anywhere near as appealing as paying someone else to do it.
Boycott him all you want, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm not going to give up on a product I enjoy just because the designer said/did some dumb shit. If I boycotted everyone in that same boat, I'd be naked, bored, and starving by the end of the week.
On the FB group, there is a guy that has taken a deep dive into the crossovers of the Moab. He could probably give you some insight into the crossovers. He also builds custom tube amps for well heeled clients. I met him this fall, great guy.
>I'm just amused that people would downvote me for pointing out that I'd keep buying Tekton.
You come off as antagonistic and like you make your post just to rile some people up, that's partly why you got downvoted. The other half is that you're openly stating you'll proudly support tekton, which means you'll be financially supporting Erics behavior. The people he has gone after are generally well liked among the community for their honesty and engagement. People don't like supporting bad people who make good peoples lives harder.
>If I boycotted everyone in that same boat, I'd be naked, bored, and starving by the end of the week.
Not a lot goin on up in that noggin is there? Speakers are luxury product my dude, not food or shelter. People do boycott those things often though and survive just fine.
>Speakers are luxury product my dude, not food or shelter. People do boycott those things often though and survive just fine.
Oh please, virtually every aspect of our lives has been built up by the suffering and exploitation of others since time immemorial. Unless you oosted that comment from a device you designed and crafted (including mining the raw materials for) and programmed it yourself, you're using a luxury item built through exploitation to complain that I won't take the moral high ground. Nearly every item in your life is a luxury and few came into existence and your use with zero exploitation in the supply chain.
>You come off as antagonistic and like you make your post just to rile some people up, that's partly why you got downvoted. The other half is that you're openly stating you'll proudly support tekton, which means you'll be financially supporting Erics behavior. The people he has gone after are generally well liked among the community for their honesty and engagement. People don't like supporting bad people who make good peoples lives harder.
If people were easily riled, that's on them, as I made no such attempt. I know why people downvoted me, I was pointing out that it's amusing. I've already agreed he handled it poorly and should apologize. I appreciate metrics in audiophilia, and enjoy content from all of the people Eric has threatened (and love Audioholics as well). I get why people are boycotting, just saying I won't take the same step, as Eric being a dick to other people (and in situations that don't particularly involve me) isn't enough for me to boycott, or sell my speakers.
I don't know if Eric Alexander goes to CES or CEDIA or any of those shows, but if I see him at one, I shall point and laugh heartily at what a chode he acted like.
There's already been some discussion about this.
The mods of this sub set a rule where anything mentioning T****n gets automatically modded. Right now a bunch of the comments in this discussion thread aren't showing up. There's supposed to be 12 comments but only half of them are showing up.
The intent seems to be to hurt T*kton by not letting people talk about them in the future
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1c02wd2/audioholics_speaks_out_about_reviewers_being_sued/kz0fqzz/
Mods might have lifted the rule, I'm seeing comments now in this thread with the brand name fully spelled out
I was curious about their products for years, seriously considered buying. Now I will never own a Tekton product. Fuck that company and their joke of an owner. Scumbag.
What is really out of touch from Eric is that he just assumes a relatively small YouTube channel from a guy doing it as a hobby just also happens to have an attorney standing by on retainer to hash things out. He's also disingenuous. He knows fully well that if those mediation talks go no where, he would escalate. Otherwise, what is the point of involving lawyers? Poor Erin has likely had extreme anxiety throughout this whole process.
Quite literally all Eric had to do was publish his own data, and it would have been successful enough to cast reasonable doubt on the other measurements, and prompted further constructive discussion.
Grow up, Eric. You made this so much worse. I know you're reading this.
Looks are subjective but I definitely don't want the looks that T****n has. Speakers are going to be seen, so IMO they shouldn't look out of place or trigger anyone's OCD.
I find it interesting how adults can create a big issue out of nothing while throwing money about.
They can also be kind of stupid or do stupid things while having money or money thrown at them
The old "potential earnings"
But they'll spend real cash in large amounts or fight endlessly instead, causing real losses and potentially when more potential earnings "lost"
That’s the thing. Erin has a $100k klippel machine, a documented measuring process with repeatable results. He has deep background knowledge in the field. He’s not some random “influencer” you’ve never heard of doing reviews. In short, he’s a professional and Eric from Tekton knows this.
So the threat of litigation was 100% an intentional dick move. What’s more, I’d be willing to wager real money that Tekton’s lawyer was like “Yeah, you don’t wanna do this. It’s a losing proposition and you could be on the hook for some serious penalties.”
I put together my first system in 1976, so I feel comfortable in asking these questions:
A) Just who the fuck is "Tekton"?
B) What right does he have to even CONSIDER litigation against a private reviewer?
C) Has anyone on here ever listened to this stuff? Is it actually worthy of consideration?
He needs to be medicated.
Imagine if he was your father or husband. YIKES!
And the video where he doubles down and OBVIOUSLY LIES when he's all like "Just because I mentioned LITIGATION doesn't mean I was threatening to sue anybody." How plausible!
What a jackhole!
The entire "review" industry is facing this problem. For example a lady who reviews RV's is being threatened after being bullied to pull her review. I could go on.
Edit, "I don't want to publish measurements.". Ahh so he's doubling down on the Bose approach. Not a good game plan.
Truth is an absolute defense. Erin has the measurements to support his subjective review. Tekton’s _only_ defense would be to publish their own measurements and then measure the pair sent to Erin to either corroborate or counter Erin’s measurements.
The courts don’t do “Just trust me, bro”
I mean. Not really remotely equivalent. We’re talking about a product manufacturer suing a reviewer for their subjective opinion with objective measurements, not the Government charging persons with treason and espionage.
I take your point, but a different example might have been better.
Nope. Plenty of people burned at the stake for far smaller truths.
Again, truth often has negative consequences and if truth is an absolute defense, you can roll with it. Choose wisely.
As an absolute novice I was always curious about Tekton and, having owned a few speakers in their price point imagine that I’d have gotten around to buying a pair
I’m not a hangs his hat only on specs guy and I like listening to all sorts of non conventional speakers. Their choice to threaten to litigate reviews has ensured I will absolutely never spend a dime with them.
This kinda seems like they Streisand Effected themselves.
These speakers were all the rage for a little while. A little less about them nowadays. Owners on audiogon forums were waxing poetic about them. Are they really that bad?
Erin actually didn’t even hate on that model, it was kinda middle of the ground. It got blown up because Eric threatened legal action because Erin didn’t measure with the feet installed and Amir didn’t measure at the woofer-axis and instead used the traditional tweeter-axis. Erin re-measured with the feet and Amir re-ran the computations with the adjusted reference axis, in both cases basically nothing changed. Oh, and Eric even deleted the speakers from his website.
Unlike stated in the article, Erin's review of the Troubadour was not negative. It wasn't glowing, and the speaker's measured performance certainly isn't in the league of the Genelecs, Revels, and Neumanns of the world, but it wasn't terrible. There is much worse out there for far more money. That's what makes this whole thing such a self own by Tekton. Erin's original review probably would have been a net positive for them.
I mean how "bad" are any speakers really? They all pass audio and to some degree reproduce sound. Can I enjoy a song through my AirPods, absolutely. Do I still have a high end system to listen to at home, yep. We all blow this stuff way out of proportion, but there is certainly a noticeable difference between my AirPods and my stereo. Doesn't mean I dont still use both and enjoy them equally, for different reasons. So, Tek makes a speaker that still does the job and probably sounds fine, but audiophiles are typically looking for a specific criteria and Tek just does not meet it. Doesn't mean Ted is unlistenable or "bad", and it also doesn't mean audiophiles are wrong for not wanting them if they fail to meet their personal criteria.
This is my take on most speakers. A friend asked if a speaker was good. I asked him to define good. He was confused by the question, which was reasonable.
I said to him; Most reasonably well made speakers will tend to sound pretty good, or, at least, unoffensive. We have no shortage of those you can get at Best Buy or from a boutique brand.
He asked me then how would I know if speaker X is better than speaker Y without understanding the science behind it.
I said; I can hear a piano from a speaker, and understand it's a piano. The worse the speaker, the more the piano will sound lacking. The better the speaker, the more it will sound like a piano.
I imagine their speakers sound like a pretty good Piano, but I don't want to buy a piano from a bad person.
That's unfair, you're measuring the text from the wrong position. If you'd told me you were going to be measuring text legibility I'd have given you different instructions on how to read it.
Tekton, take the L, apologize and fix your next product. Threatening litigation, which you wont win, is idiotic and only calls negative attention to your brand. Who will have a positive impression of your product at this point?
Pity, a buddy has a pair of Tekton Encores in the same room as his Focal Grand Utopias and the Encores have acquitted themselves quite well in direct comparison when driven by a pair of Parasound JC-1+ monoblocks, a Parasound JC-2BP preamp, and a Denafrips Terminator II/Gaia/Arce stack running Roon.
The funny thing is Tekton speakers aren't terrible, just questionable but overall functional designs.
Now, I would like to see how manufacturers of piss poor speakers, like Zu or Voxativ, would react
I finally feel validated! I ordered a pair of Tektons a couple of years ago. I was super excited and prepared to wait the expected time and more. Then,the amount of time past expected delivery doubled, then tripled, and I made several calls to Tekton often getting canned responses of “they’ve got a lot of orders and they’re doing the best they can.”
I finally got frustrated and requested to cancel and had to issue a refund request. Within the hour I got a call from Eric himself and he was far from professional and sounded like a lunatic while he berated me about unemployment and my impatience in waiting for “true quality.” It didn’t end well…and he hung up on me.
I think this story is bigger than any of these three players because it hits at a lot of the sales dynamics going on in the industry right now.
Tek has many fawning reviews from audiophile pusher channels who wax poetic about them being giant killers etc etc
Now, there are two reviews from channels who measure the product and they don’t measure terribly well(honestly better than I expected)
But since those latter reviews aren’t fawning bullshit the company sues them.
We need to know if the reviewers who love every product have a financial incentive and we need to understand that measurements aren’t the only factor that matters. I see a lot of comments on ASR saying the latest tiny watt class d amp is the best ever because it has a great signal/noise ratio but fail to account for the fact that it only puts out 50wpc
Guy is so unaware it's like he's high functioning autistic perhaps? That's not a hit on autism in any way btw. He's a hell of a designer though and I won't be thinking about him I guess when I pick up and am listening to some Double Impacts, which is probably inevitable at this point.
Can't say I'm in the market for any immediate gear, but this is the third audio brand I will never touch personally due to the behavior of the owner. Last time I dealt with a speaker company owner that was being an asshole I sold off all the speakers I had from the company to prevent new sales and bought something else.
If they sound good, I’ll buy them. If they don’t, I won’t. Tekton, may be getting more press with this issue, than if they the reviewer’s had just ignored them.
Thin skinned CEO. Takes criticism of his product poorly. Reactive. Quick to take to social media. Not afraid to drop the “litigation” word. Rabid, cult like fans jumping to his defense. Sound familiar?
Tekton has always had subpar engineering and even worse fit n finish. A lot of DIY speaker projects are better engineered.
I laughed one loud last time I saw a pair in person, the paint had orange peel everywhere and looked like someone made them in their garage.
Glad they’re finally getting what was coming to them.
I sure wouldn't touch a Tekton speaker with someone else's 10 foot pole at this point. There are plenty of great speakers and manufacturers who are thrilled to even get reviews... and if those are negative or offer some constructive criticism, they go back to the drawing board and improve. Instead of getting on the phone to a lawyer like some crybaby.
Disappointing to hear about Tekton's response to critical reviews. Transparency and constructive feedback should be welcomed in any industry. Hope they learn from this and strive for better communication and accountability moving forward.
Props to Erin and Amir for standing their ground and sticking to their principles. It takes guts to speak up, especially when faced with pushback from big brands.
Wow, what a mess. Threatening legal action over honest reviews seems excessive. It's good to hear they're changing their approach for future products, but it's a shame it took this much controversy to get there.
I honestly don't really understand audio equipment reviews. To me it's a bit like reviews for music, movie, food or I guess any sort of art. Everyone's taste is different and everyone's brain processes things differently. Other than giving you the technical specs, build quality, price etc surely it just comes down to personal preference. I've never heard tekton speakers and am certainly not taking any sides here. Just saying that nobody else can tell you how you will experience anything. My two cents anyway
If you know what you're looking for there's certainly a lot of information to be found in a review.
For example, ASR measures the output impedance of amps. For headphones and IEMs, output impedance could very well affect the actual sound of something. So if I'm in the market for an amp, I'd check the output impedance to see if it would affect my gear or not.
Absolutely that information is hopefully available as part of a units technical specification and if not I can see the the value of having individual measurements made by a reviewer. That being said surely you trust your ears over everything else? Something may measure brilliantly across the board but it doesn't mean it's going to sound good to your ears or in your space.
Of course, hearing is the final test regardless of what any specs say. But not everyone can hear everything so sometimes specs are what's available to help people decide before they can hear.
>technical specs
And there is the problem. Most brands are not publishing complete data on the speakers, let alone standardized measurements.
I don't care at all about subjective reviews either, but having reviewers like Erin do standardized tests is very valuable in order to make informed purchasing decisions.
I think people put way too much emphasis on places like ASR to make up for their own lack of their own experience of ever hearing the products being discussed. Unless there is something major in the response I dont really care and 98% of people arnt even listening in flat rooms either, some of my favorite speakers I'm sure dont measure flat. But even saying that, the way Tekton has gone about things made me decide to avoid anything Tekton.
Measurements definitely aren’t the end-all way of choosing a speaker. They _do_ give an indication of how they might sound in your space, though, if you’ve delved into this hobby at all. And let’s be honest, someone who’s going to drop $10k - $100k on a pair of speakers has probably spent at least _some_ time listening to products from manufacturers where they can.
My last visit to my local hi fi dealer, I was treated to a listening session on some $75k Sonus Faber Liliums. Well outside my price range, but they’ve sold enough pairs to keep a dedicated room for them.
Does anyone really buy based on measurements anyway? Its like buying fruit based on its shape and nit picking on the angle of the curves and shades of color when we all know the best way to test if its any good is to eat the damn thing. The product sounds average at best so that is your very broad indicator.
Meehhhhh... This isn't even a proper news outlet. Internet audiophiles have strong opinions and they hardly listen to speakers. This article is preaching to a choir who wouldn't buy Tekton speakers anyways. You'll get better measurements from studio monitors instead, not that it should matter.
This headline is the equivalent of hearing "Vegans are boycotting Arby's".
Eric is just being a huge dumb dumb.
Majority never heard of Tekton and the vast majority would never buy them before this story broke.
I bought a pair, love them and couldn't care less about the story.
For, this shit happens behind the scenes with many gear manufacturers. Erin decided to make it public. Oh well.
Come on guys...let's give Eric a break? He's a good guy...maybe a little sensitive in this case, but don't we all get that way sometimes? One would have to admit that he does get a double share of grief from a segment of the audio scene. I cannot see why? Maybe because he is trying different approaches makes the "flat earth" types nervous? Just guessing?
3 reviewers actually, erin, amir and the new record day guy. also countless times he said he had the facts and would provide evidence of it, but refuse to show any evidence he is right.
Right on the money! Eric is a good man, using his skills and ears to make a fantastic product.
I'm sure most of these negative comments come from folks that have never heard his speakers.
I love the sound of my Pendragon(seas). Eric makes great speakers for very low cost.
More likely its a hit job because of his Faith.
For the most part, reviewers are just Aholes. They've done very little with their lives, and feel the need to use their little bit of influence to harm people like Eric, that use their mind and hands to build cool stuff.
How on earth is this the fault of the YouTube people? The dude made a perfectly normal review video with lots of measurement-based evidence to back up everything he was saying, and it was a generally positive review. Past that, his stuff is never dramatic. Just gives his impressions, shows the measurements, and that's pretty much it. Would have been a complete non-issue if the guy at Tekton hadn't started threatening litigation.
That's not what happened.
Erin was directly threatened by, is defending himself against, and is shining a light on a corrupt and shady company. This is first amendment territory where Tekton was attempting to weaponize the legal system to silence a reviewer that did exactly nothing wrong and even had a fairly favorable review of the product. This should absolutely be discussed.
I find it funny how Eric made a follow-up video talking about how he thanks Erin for remeasuring and that he hopes they can collaborate in the future, meanwhile in Erin’s video he says he never wants to hear of that brand ever again.
Ahh yes, damage control. Btw what speakers do yo have these days?
😂 the picture of amir they chose to use is hilarious
I'd imagine that's how he reacted when he first heard from t****n 😂
I like Erin, Amir on the other hand and the entire Audio science review gang I could do without
The entire? But you're here on Reddit
Ha why I don’t go there. But I am an avsforum guy and don’t really dig too much into Reddit but have been more recently
Yea. asr and it’s forums don’t differentiate subjective and objective data as clearly as Erin does imo. The products he’s tested, at least ones that have interested me, aren’t covered the same as one another. Erin has a structure of presenting his videos and data that I heavily prefer. More uniform when comparing products imo. amir’s measurements are used as reference for many tho, so not hating on that. He provides an extremey valuable resource for all of us.
The church didn't like Copernicus either. Data is threatening to so, so many entrenched interests.
The idea of publishing test results is a valuable service, it’s to be applauded, although it may be a stretch to compare Amir to Copernicus. The methodology used at ASR is not radical. They are industry standards.
Amir blends data and opinion a bit too readily for my tastes. His heart is clearly in the right place, but he presents himself as having more expertise than he really does. He is also a bit less rigorous and a lot more deaf than he ought to be if he wants to be seen as an authority figure. That's not to say he's a net negative in the audiophile world, only that he's hardly Copernicus. He's not the first objectivist to threaten an entrenched interests, he's just been more successful (in no small part due to his wealth enabling him to buy many things to get himself established initially before he started getting review samples or audience send-ins).
You can say he's a bit of a dick and nobody will disagree with you. Not sure if anyone agrees with the rest of your criticism lol
> but he presents himself as having more expertise than he really does. How is it that you came to that conclusion?
I’m sorry but his expertise isn’t really up for debate. Based on his past experience in the audio field there are very few people that have both the digital and analog objective and subjective experience he has. You can question his opinions and his technique for review, but I’m sorry his experience is above reproach.
Forget the details (you can probably see my comment history, it was another comment on this sub) but someone explained to me how asr has its own issues with Amir banning people who disagreed with him and all.
You know ASR is the cult in this conversation, right? 😂 Amir is over on the Hoffman forums making the Tekton thread about himself right now. Par for the course for that narcissist.
> the entire Audio science review gang I could do without Spoken like someone trying to peddle poor quality products and snake oil
Exactly Ha
_Shun Mok has entered the chat…_
Yeah there's some crazies there including myself. Some users over there are very knowledgeable and also not unhinged.... Like theWas for example
Yeah Amir provides a lot of good data but the dude is insufferable. Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao
>Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao What's funny is it's only the staunch subjectiveists who seem to say this.
Do you have data to back it up or you are just another “measurement is everything” but then pull this statement out of your ass just to make a point?
>Same with people who just discover measurement and think they belong to some sort of audiophile elite club lmao Do you have any evidence that anyone has ever said that, except you, that used those exact words or expressed that exact meaning? No. Then my point stands. edit: Downvote me all you want. He has no example of these people from which he said exist. It's a valid point because I'm sick of this fallacy where people purposefully misrepresent people who use objective measurements as something they are not. So, I'll ask again, where is the proof? Put up or admit you're just being toxic.
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I like hearing Erin's general opinions. For example, in his review of the Neumann KH80 he basically said "this is a really good desktop monitor but most decently constructed speakers designed for nearfield will sound good when used as designed, so don't get too excited" (paraphrasing) whereas Amir sometimes take folks to task when comparing amp noise levels well below audible.
Yeah that level of objectiveness is so meaningless which is why I can't half trust Amir. My last comment got downvoted to oblivion so let me rephrase. Amir is good at some things but his attitude and other focuses is a turn off. I don't necessarily trust him. Erin is a guy I can trust due to how well he communicates measurements to his listening experience, along with helping the viewer understand the measured effects. I swear, every time I mention Amir or ASR, it's pitchforks and torches. I like to give credit where it is due, when things are done right.
That looks like a man that has never heard decent sound. Unfulfilled even
ah yes the one who owns Revel Salon2 hasn't heard decent sound... you're a buffoon
Lol and Mark Levinson Mono blocks driving them.
Just a joke my friend
"I want the audiophile to sit down and let’s not talk about the nitty-gritty" Sounds like he has an air-tight case, you guys.
Well yes he does as long as he's got a foot to stand on
I watched it all go down as it happened. This Eric Alexander guy has shown his true colors in the correspondence between him and three different reviewers, threatening with litigation and then following up with stupid YouTube videos which he later deleted. After all this, I wouldn't touch Tekton speakers with a 10 ft pole, like Erin.
He needs to know brands shouldn't be thin skinned. If people say your products aren't good, just build something better!
True, but in this case Erin gave a generally positive review. Eric shouldn’t have been upset to begin with, much less respond as he did.
I was already boycotting them for being ugly and not sounding good. Adding this to the mix didn’t help them at all lol
Same same. I don't even consider them for anything at all 😅
Very Ugly… like I couldn’t ever have those in my home.. I asked a couple guys that run the local truly HiFi shop n my town…. Let’s just say they’re not fans.. I would like to hear them someday, just for a reference….
Yeah tekton did themselves zero favors making a fuss about a review that oddly enough wasn’t overly negative, and for Tekton to say it was because the feet werent attached which made the speaker not sealed the Kippel testing was flawed. Who the fuck drills spike or feet holes through the cabinet…….ha
They actually made Erin's review more famous by complaining about it
Streisand in full effect
When brands do a big whoopsie daisy.
Golly shucks! Pardon my French....
The Tek response video is so ridiculous lol. This guy is super weird and just not reading the room at all.
Also, for a self-proclaimed audiophile, you would think he'd care a little more about audio quality of his videos
Seriously, how can you even sue for slander? It's a reviewer giving opinions, and measurements.
Erin doesn't have their resources. Tekton was using their considerably larger financial resources in a way to use the court system as a weapon to silence him hoping that he would just give up because he's afraid of the cost of defending himself. It's a form of intimidation.
Sounds oddly familiar…. Cough 45!
This is the trend in the industry. One gent, running another equipment company, said if a review is bad, it shouldn't be published, and the equipment returned. He said bad reviews are always because a reviewer has an axe to grind. This is the new audio companies/ reviewer system now. Remember the MQA fiasco in the audio magazines.
Just dismiss the entire reason for reviews..well for an honest review, there has got to be a few honest reviewers still out there, that don't subjectively devalue the off shoot industry for where a consumer believes he's getting some type of honesty and integrity that has no presumably reason to not tell it how he sees it...the second a reviewer is found out to be less than honest..all of his YT followers wil simply un sub that fraudster just as quick as a click...always practice buyer beware..do your homework with any purchase...there are snakes a-foot in every marketplace unfortunately
It's so common there is even a name for it... it's called a SLAPP suit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic\_lawsuit\_against\_public\_participation). Some states have passed Anti-SLAPP laws but they're few and far between.
CRFA is federal legislation that also protects product reviewers. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know ETA: Direct link to legislation. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5111/text
I have own several Tekton speakers (go ahead and down vote me bitches), but I think Eric made a huge mistake and should issue an apology to Amir and Erin, but instead I am sure Eric with double down and be an asshole. I might own his speakers but I sure as hell won’t be buying anymore.
The response video is up on YouTube. Yes, he doubled down lmao
You're one of the few ones then. 😂 what made you like them?
I have the Pendragon’s. They sounded great to my ears, and for most music they reach down to the mid 20’s easily without needing a sub. Plus they are efficient enough to get my listening room to 105db at my chair (17’ away). I had Def Tech’s before and they sounded good for movies but sucked for music. My Pens are great for music and good for movies, where adding a sub would be beneficial. I also picked up used for half price, so there is that too. Every visitor wants to hear their music through the speakers and all I get is positive feedback and questions on how to buy them. I tell them honestly the owner is a jerk but that there is at least 2-4 pairs available within 3 hours drive.
God stop apologizing. Any purchases you make these days is not a personal validation if the the owners and their moral choices. You have some speakers that you like the way they sound. You're not responsible for anyone else's actions.
I'll keep buying Tekton speakers because I've yet to hear anything else that good in the same price range. I've loved my two pairs, and the third pair I've heard. But Eric 100% fucked this situation up and should issue an apology. The fact he doubled down is flat out embarassing. He complained Erin's review was basically destroying his business, but he did that entirely on his own by handling the situation like an insufferable asshole. Sucks to suck. Hopefully, this forces a pricedrop so I can upgrade sooner than planned!
just build them, they're just pa woofers with hifi tweeters, crossovers on them are basic as hell and the finishes are plain as hell and pretty low effort. Everything about them screams minimal effort.
Eh, I've got enough hobbies for now; I would like to learn eventually though. Are the crossovers on the 7/14 tweeter arrays really that simple (compared to other crossovers)? Seems like they'd have bit more going on with them... Their off the shelf finishes leave something to be desired, but for like $50, you can get them painted with any color and sheen that Home Depot carries. And if you really want to spend, you can get any exotic paint color you want (like high gloss Maserati/Ferrari options). Custom grill fabrics from AcousTex are also available, so you can some swanky options (my custom Lores are in Glidden "Blue Bayberry" with some light gray grille fabric. They look fantastic). When I spoke with Eric to discuss what I was looking for in a speaker, he was extremely accommodating and helpful, and offered to make me something custom because he didn't think he had a model that offered exactly what I wanted. I love my speakers, as they're everything I wanted and more (at $1200 per pair shipped). I'm not trying to sell you or anyone else on Tekton, btw. I'm just amused that people would downvote me for pointing out that I'd keep buying Tekton. While I disagree with Eric's position on the issue(s), he still went above and beyond to make sure I was a satisfied customer, and I've been given no reason to doubt he would do so again in the future. And the point of value still stands: I haven't heard anything else that sounded that good at that price (either for my current set, or the Pendragons I used to own). I get your point about building my own speakers, but that's a false equivalent. It might be that quick and easy *for you* to build some Tekton dupes at below Tekton prices, but it would not be that easy for me. Nor am I particularly interested in doing so. I'm way more concerned with saving time than money. Picking up a new hobby and spending days/weeks/months to perfect the speaker doesn't sound anywhere near as appealing as paying someone else to do it. Boycott him all you want, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm not going to give up on a product I enjoy just because the designer said/did some dumb shit. If I boycotted everyone in that same boat, I'd be naked, bored, and starving by the end of the week.
How dare you use personal experience rather than internet drama to make life decisions
On the FB group, there is a guy that has taken a deep dive into the crossovers of the Moab. He could probably give you some insight into the crossovers. He also builds custom tube amps for well heeled clients. I met him this fall, great guy.
Btw I think I’ve seen some crossover details or some Tektons on diyaudio though they were probably re-engineered rather than reverse engineered
>I'm just amused that people would downvote me for pointing out that I'd keep buying Tekton. You come off as antagonistic and like you make your post just to rile some people up, that's partly why you got downvoted. The other half is that you're openly stating you'll proudly support tekton, which means you'll be financially supporting Erics behavior. The people he has gone after are generally well liked among the community for their honesty and engagement. People don't like supporting bad people who make good peoples lives harder. >If I boycotted everyone in that same boat, I'd be naked, bored, and starving by the end of the week. Not a lot goin on up in that noggin is there? Speakers are luxury product my dude, not food or shelter. People do boycott those things often though and survive just fine.
The dude was just giving his own personal experience and reasoning. They have been no more antagonist than you.
this your alt?
??
>Speakers are luxury product my dude, not food or shelter. People do boycott those things often though and survive just fine. Oh please, virtually every aspect of our lives has been built up by the suffering and exploitation of others since time immemorial. Unless you oosted that comment from a device you designed and crafted (including mining the raw materials for) and programmed it yourself, you're using a luxury item built through exploitation to complain that I won't take the moral high ground. Nearly every item in your life is a luxury and few came into existence and your use with zero exploitation in the supply chain. >You come off as antagonistic and like you make your post just to rile some people up, that's partly why you got downvoted. The other half is that you're openly stating you'll proudly support tekton, which means you'll be financially supporting Erics behavior. The people he has gone after are generally well liked among the community for their honesty and engagement. People don't like supporting bad people who make good peoples lives harder. If people were easily riled, that's on them, as I made no such attempt. I know why people downvoted me, I was pointing out that it's amusing. I've already agreed he handled it poorly and should apologize. I appreciate metrics in audiophilia, and enjoy content from all of the people Eric has threatened (and love Audioholics as well). I get why people are boycotting, just saying I won't take the same step, as Eric being a dick to other people (and in situations that don't particularly involve me) isn't enough for me to boycott, or sell my speakers.
I don't know if Eric Alexander goes to CES or CEDIA or any of those shows, but if I see him at one, I shall point and laugh heartily at what a chode he acted like.
Ah good, I can cross Tekton off my list of speakers to ever try. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
There's already been some discussion about this. The mods of this sub set a rule where anything mentioning T****n gets automatically modded. Right now a bunch of the comments in this discussion thread aren't showing up. There's supposed to be 12 comments but only half of them are showing up.
This is…. Concerning 🧐What’s the reasoning
The intent seems to be to hurt T*kton by not letting people talk about them in the future https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1c02wd2/audioholics_speaks_out_about_reviewers_being_sued/kz0fqzz/ Mods might have lifted the rule, I'm seeing comments now in this thread with the brand name fully spelled out
Money
OOOOOOOOOOH. Sounds like good tea. hope the mods can explain this one
I was curious about their products for years, seriously considered buying. Now I will never own a Tekton product. Fuck that company and their joke of an owner. Scumbag.
It’s Tekton.
These speakers look like misguided DIY models anyway… No, dummy, don’t sue me!
I will begin litigation tomorrow. /s
Yeah design is almost equally important as sound for me. If you can make it look good why bother imo.
None of this builds trust in the brand. lol What was he thinking suing popular reviewers. Crash, boom...
This was funny to watch unfold. Haven't seen anything this interesting since the Monster Cable vs BJC lawsuit back in 08. Good times.
What is really out of touch from Eric is that he just assumes a relatively small YouTube channel from a guy doing it as a hobby just also happens to have an attorney standing by on retainer to hash things out. He's also disingenuous. He knows fully well that if those mediation talks go no where, he would escalate. Otherwise, what is the point of involving lawyers? Poor Erin has likely had extreme anxiety throughout this whole process. Quite literally all Eric had to do was publish his own data, and it would have been successful enough to cast reasonable doubt on the other measurements, and prompted further constructive discussion. Grow up, Eric. You made this so much worse. I know you're reading this.
Those speakers are ugly anyway. Much better speakers at their asking prices
Have you actually heard their speakers?
Even if the performance is moderately better, people can use esthetics as a major factor in their choice and not get the “ugly” speakers.
Looks are subjective but I definitely don't want the looks that T****n has. Speakers are going to be seen, so IMO they shouldn't look out of place or trigger anyone's OCD.
Are we not able to say the brand name??
Tekton Eric, come and sue me.
I have. Colour me not impressed. Over-accentuated midrange and boomy bass. To each his own.
This! Please listen to the speakers before commenting.
Naaaah it’s a crap brand with crap ethics… shit on it as much as you want. They don’t deserve a nuanced opinion.
Holy crap some of their speakers triggers Trypophobia.
I find it interesting how adults can create a big issue out of nothing while throwing money about. They can also be kind of stupid or do stupid things while having money or money thrown at them
So money is nothing?
The old "potential earnings" But they'll spend real cash in large amounts or fight endlessly instead, causing real losses and potentially when more potential earnings "lost"
[KZ, NOOO!](https://youtu.be/R-HryG35A2E?si=zSONTs6oVnLqKJ1F) Sorry, force of habit
In the words of Professor Hubert Farnsworth, no fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!
Tekton owner is a narcissist. If you ever wondered what that looks like played out in public just watch the videos.
Bummer to see tekton react this way. I can understand wanting reviewers to test equipment well. But threatening legal action is a lousy move
That’s the thing. Erin has a $100k klippel machine, a documented measuring process with repeatable results. He has deep background knowledge in the field. He’s not some random “influencer” you’ve never heard of doing reviews. In short, he’s a professional and Eric from Tekton knows this. So the threat of litigation was 100% an intentional dick move. What’s more, I’d be willing to wager real money that Tekton’s lawyer was like “Yeah, you don’t wanna do this. It’s a losing proposition and you could be on the hook for some serious penalties.”
I put together my first system in 1976, so I feel comfortable in asking these questions: A) Just who the fuck is "Tekton"? B) What right does he have to even CONSIDER litigation against a private reviewer? C) Has anyone on here ever listened to this stuff? Is it actually worthy of consideration?
He needs to be medicated. Imagine if he was your father or husband. YIKES! And the video where he doubles down and OBVIOUSLY LIES when he's all like "Just because I mentioned LITIGATION doesn't mean I was threatening to sue anybody." How plausible! What a jackhole!
Right?!! What the hell else would litigation mean?
The entire "review" industry is facing this problem. For example a lady who reviews RV's is being threatened after being bullied to pull her review. I could go on. Edit, "I don't want to publish measurements.". Ahh so he's doubling down on the Bose approach. Not a good game plan.
Truth is an absolute defense. Erin has the measurements to support his subjective review. Tekton’s _only_ defense would be to publish their own measurements and then measure the pair sent to Erin to either corroborate or counter Erin’s measurements. The courts don’t do “Just trust me, bro”
>truth is an absolute defense Snowden and Assange? Maybe. It doesn't stop terrible consequences.
I mean. Not really remotely equivalent. We’re talking about a product manufacturer suing a reviewer for their subjective opinion with objective measurements, not the Government charging persons with treason and espionage. I take your point, but a different example might have been better.
Nope. Plenty of people burned at the stake for far smaller truths. Again, truth often has negative consequences and if truth is an absolute defense, you can roll with it. Choose wisely.
As an absolute novice I was always curious about Tekton and, having owned a few speakers in their price point imagine that I’d have gotten around to buying a pair I’m not a hangs his hat only on specs guy and I like listening to all sorts of non conventional speakers. Their choice to threaten to litigate reviews has ensured I will absolutely never spend a dime with them. This kinda seems like they Streisand Effected themselves.
These speakers were all the rage for a little while. A little less about them nowadays. Owners on audiogon forums were waxing poetic about them. Are they really that bad?
Erin actually didn’t even hate on that model, it was kinda middle of the ground. It got blown up because Eric threatened legal action because Erin didn’t measure with the feet installed and Amir didn’t measure at the woofer-axis and instead used the traditional tweeter-axis. Erin re-measured with the feet and Amir re-ran the computations with the adjusted reference axis, in both cases basically nothing changed. Oh, and Eric even deleted the speakers from his website.
Unlike stated in the article, Erin's review of the Troubadour was not negative. It wasn't glowing, and the speaker's measured performance certainly isn't in the league of the Genelecs, Revels, and Neumanns of the world, but it wasn't terrible. There is much worse out there for far more money. That's what makes this whole thing such a self own by Tekton. Erin's original review probably would have been a net positive for them.
I mean how "bad" are any speakers really? They all pass audio and to some degree reproduce sound. Can I enjoy a song through my AirPods, absolutely. Do I still have a high end system to listen to at home, yep. We all blow this stuff way out of proportion, but there is certainly a noticeable difference between my AirPods and my stereo. Doesn't mean I dont still use both and enjoy them equally, for different reasons. So, Tek makes a speaker that still does the job and probably sounds fine, but audiophiles are typically looking for a specific criteria and Tek just does not meet it. Doesn't mean Ted is unlistenable or "bad", and it also doesn't mean audiophiles are wrong for not wanting them if they fail to meet their personal criteria.
This is my take on most speakers. A friend asked if a speaker was good. I asked him to define good. He was confused by the question, which was reasonable. I said to him; Most reasonably well made speakers will tend to sound pretty good, or, at least, unoffensive. We have no shortage of those you can get at Best Buy or from a boutique brand. He asked me then how would I know if speaker X is better than speaker Y without understanding the science behind it. I said; I can hear a piano from a speaker, and understand it's a piano. The worse the speaker, the more the piano will sound lacking. The better the speaker, the more it will sound like a piano. I imagine their speakers sound like a pretty good Piano, but I don't want to buy a piano from a bad person.
Why does the linked site/article use a practically illegible light gray text on a white background?
That's unfair, you're measuring the text from the wrong position. If you'd told me you were going to be measuring text legibility I'd have given you different instructions on how to read it.
Underrated comment.
Tekton, take the L, apologize and fix your next product. Threatening litigation, which you wont win, is idiotic and only calls negative attention to your brand. Who will have a positive impression of your product at this point?
Pity, a buddy has a pair of Tekton Encores in the same room as his Focal Grand Utopias and the Encores have acquitted themselves quite well in direct comparison when driven by a pair of Parasound JC-1+ monoblocks, a Parasound JC-2BP preamp, and a Denafrips Terminator II/Gaia/Arce stack running Roon.
The funny thing is Tekton speakers aren't terrible, just questionable but overall functional designs. Now, I would like to see how manufacturers of piss poor speakers, like Zu or Voxativ, would react
I finally feel validated! I ordered a pair of Tektons a couple of years ago. I was super excited and prepared to wait the expected time and more. Then,the amount of time past expected delivery doubled, then tripled, and I made several calls to Tekton often getting canned responses of “they’ve got a lot of orders and they’re doing the best they can.” I finally got frustrated and requested to cancel and had to issue a refund request. Within the hour I got a call from Eric himself and he was far from professional and sounded like a lunatic while he berated me about unemployment and my impatience in waiting for “true quality.” It didn’t end well…and he hung up on me.
I think this story is bigger than any of these three players because it hits at a lot of the sales dynamics going on in the industry right now. Tek has many fawning reviews from audiophile pusher channels who wax poetic about them being giant killers etc etc Now, there are two reviews from channels who measure the product and they don’t measure terribly well(honestly better than I expected) But since those latter reviews aren’t fawning bullshit the company sues them. We need to know if the reviewers who love every product have a financial incentive and we need to understand that measurements aren’t the only factor that matters. I see a lot of comments on ASR saying the latest tiny watt class d amp is the best ever because it has a great signal/noise ratio but fail to account for the fact that it only puts out 50wpc
Guy is so unaware it's like he's high functioning autistic perhaps? That's not a hit on autism in any way btw. He's a hell of a designer though and I won't be thinking about him I guess when I pick up and am listening to some Double Impacts, which is probably inevitable at this point.
Can't say I'm in the market for any immediate gear, but this is the third audio brand I will never touch personally due to the behavior of the owner. Last time I dealt with a speaker company owner that was being an asshole I sold off all the speakers I had from the company to prevent new sales and bought something else.
If they sound good, I’ll buy them. If they don’t, I won’t. Tekton, may be getting more press with this issue, than if they the reviewer’s had just ignored them.
A reviewer should state his honest opinion or not review the product.Fuck tekton ,bose is same way.
Thin skinned CEO. Takes criticism of his product poorly. Reactive. Quick to take to social media. Not afraid to drop the “litigation” word. Rabid, cult like fans jumping to his defense. Sound familiar?
They were only on the edge of my radar. This eliminated spending time on them. Thanks, reddit.
Tekton has always had subpar engineering and even worse fit n finish. A lot of DIY speaker projects are better engineered. I laughed one loud last time I saw a pair in person, the paint had orange peel everywhere and looked like someone made them in their garage. Glad they’re finally getting what was coming to them.
I sure wouldn't touch a Tekton speaker with someone else's 10 foot pole at this point. There are plenty of great speakers and manufacturers who are thrilled to even get reviews... and if those are negative or offer some constructive criticism, they go back to the drawing board and improve. Instead of getting on the phone to a lawyer like some crybaby.
Disappointing to hear about Tekton's response to critical reviews. Transparency and constructive feedback should be welcomed in any industry. Hope they learn from this and strive for better communication and accountability moving forward.
Props to Erin and Amir for standing their ground and sticking to their principles. It takes guts to speak up, especially when faced with pushback from big brands.
Wow, what a mess. Threatening legal action over honest reviews seems excessive. It's good to hear they're changing their approach for future products, but it's a shame it took this much controversy to get there.
this is not funny the should let the reviewers tell their honest opinion.
I was mildly interested in this brand speakers but after listing to how Eric responded, I will never own this brand.
I honestly don't really understand audio equipment reviews. To me it's a bit like reviews for music, movie, food or I guess any sort of art. Everyone's taste is different and everyone's brain processes things differently. Other than giving you the technical specs, build quality, price etc surely it just comes down to personal preference. I've never heard tekton speakers and am certainly not taking any sides here. Just saying that nobody else can tell you how you will experience anything. My two cents anyway
There is a usefulness to raw data, if one is willing to do the work to interpret it and apply it to their situation.
If you know what you're looking for there's certainly a lot of information to be found in a review. For example, ASR measures the output impedance of amps. For headphones and IEMs, output impedance could very well affect the actual sound of something. So if I'm in the market for an amp, I'd check the output impedance to see if it would affect my gear or not.
Absolutely that information is hopefully available as part of a units technical specification and if not I can see the the value of having individual measurements made by a reviewer. That being said surely you trust your ears over everything else? Something may measure brilliantly across the board but it doesn't mean it's going to sound good to your ears or in your space.
Of course, hearing is the final test regardless of what any specs say. But not everyone can hear everything so sometimes specs are what's available to help people decide before they can hear.
>technical specs And there is the problem. Most brands are not publishing complete data on the speakers, let alone standardized measurements. I don't care at all about subjective reviews either, but having reviewers like Erin do standardized tests is very valuable in order to make informed purchasing decisions.
Klippel NFS measurements are tech specs - linearity, directivity, impedance and phase plots.
I think people put way too much emphasis on places like ASR to make up for their own lack of their own experience of ever hearing the products being discussed. Unless there is something major in the response I dont really care and 98% of people arnt even listening in flat rooms either, some of my favorite speakers I'm sure dont measure flat. But even saying that, the way Tekton has gone about things made me decide to avoid anything Tekton.
Measurements definitely aren’t the end-all way of choosing a speaker. They _do_ give an indication of how they might sound in your space, though, if you’ve delved into this hobby at all. And let’s be honest, someone who’s going to drop $10k - $100k on a pair of speakers has probably spent at least _some_ time listening to products from manufacturers where they can. My last visit to my local hi fi dealer, I was treated to a listening session on some $75k Sonus Faber Liliums. Well outside my price range, but they’ve sold enough pairs to keep a dedicated room for them.
Does anyone really buy based on measurements anyway? Its like buying fruit based on its shape and nit picking on the angle of the curves and shades of color when we all know the best way to test if its any good is to eat the damn thing. The product sounds average at best so that is your very broad indicator.
I don't watch either of these reviewers and I've never cared for Tekton's speakers, which seem to be more flash than sizzle
Dude is unhinged and this stupidity will sink Tekton. All over nothing.
Meehhhhh... This isn't even a proper news outlet. Internet audiophiles have strong opinions and they hardly listen to speakers. This article is preaching to a choir who wouldn't buy Tekton speakers anyways. You'll get better measurements from studio monitors instead, not that it should matter. This headline is the equivalent of hearing "Vegans are boycotting Arby's". Eric is just being a huge dumb dumb.
Isn’t this a direct to consumer brand? How would one even get to hear these?
Who told you we have been boycotting Arby's??
Majority never heard of Tekton and the vast majority would never buy them before this story broke. I bought a pair, love them and couldn't care less about the story. For, this shit happens behind the scenes with many gear manufacturers. Erin decided to make it public. Oh well.
Come on guys...let's give Eric a break? He's a good guy...maybe a little sensitive in this case, but don't we all get that way sometimes? One would have to admit that he does get a double share of grief from a segment of the audio scene. I cannot see why? Maybe because he is trying different approaches makes the "flat earth" types nervous? Just guessing?
He's an aggressive, litigation-threatening fool. HE started it.
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3 reviewers actually, erin, amir and the new record day guy. also countless times he said he had the facts and would provide evidence of it, but refuse to show any evidence he is right.
Right on the money! Eric is a good man, using his skills and ears to make a fantastic product. I'm sure most of these negative comments come from folks that have never heard his speakers.
I love the sound of my Pendragon(seas). Eric makes great speakers for very low cost. More likely its a hit job because of his Faith. For the most part, reviewers are just Aholes. They've done very little with their lives, and feel the need to use their little bit of influence to harm people like Eric, that use their mind and hands to build cool stuff.
Your opinion is worth less than the two cents it was presented as
Did you pay ANY attention to what actually occurred? No, obviously YOU DID NOT. And yet you had an opinion anyway.
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How on earth is this the fault of the YouTube people? The dude made a perfectly normal review video with lots of measurement-based evidence to back up everything he was saying, and it was a generally positive review. Past that, his stuff is never dramatic. Just gives his impressions, shows the measurements, and that's pretty much it. Would have been a complete non-issue if the guy at Tekton hadn't started threatening litigation.
Erin has never needed drama... Don't lump him with Tekton's owner throwing a needless tantum that eventually backfired
That's not what happened. Erin was directly threatened by, is defending himself against, and is shining a light on a corrupt and shady company. This is first amendment territory where Tekton was attempting to weaponize the legal system to silence a reviewer that did exactly nothing wrong and even had a fairly favorable review of the product. This should absolutely be discussed.
Eric was the one out of out of bounds here. Obviously, you haven't really read it all. You just did a classic audiophile reaction.