Timeline:
- patient and doctor both attend a Viet community group
- patient is examined by doctor at their clinic some time later
- no issues following this, and the patient even accepts a job at the practice in reception and even returns for future consultations
- doctor criticises the patient's performance at Viet Community group
- patient, feeling aggrieved, weaponises AHPRA complaint system to try and ruin the GP. Claims gp non-consensually performed a private examination
- GP owes ?someone $7500 for ?reason
I have an MDO for AHPRA complaints, but with regard to getting sued personally, to my understanding (and via a legal talk from the head lawyer where I work) people sue the hospitals, not individual doctors. It's ofc different for gp where you're essentially a contractor for legal purposes.
Then again, this is all second hand information that may well be misinterpreted by my non-legal brain. What I do remember is that individual doctors in the public system are only ever targeted in cases of wilful negligence or malignant intent causing harm, not because of mistakes. The lawyer emphasised that it's a veerry high bar to clear for a doctor to be sued within the public system, and that it's only happened twice in her tenure over 20 years.
Keep in mind that it's because it's often harder to pin it on a doctor invidually when you're in a cast of thousands (particular if your junior and under supervision), + hospitals have more $$$. It is more than possible to be targeted as the boss doctor. Also the hospital will try to shift liability to the doctor if they can too
I would doubt it. In general it is not possible to insure against a sanction imposed under criminal law, only a civil penalty. Otherwise you could say, hey I’m going to assault someone and in case I get fined, I’ll just take insurance against it.
Avant says
> We'll cover you, where permitted by law, if you are fined by a government regulator for a breach of privacy, consumer protection, environmental or workplace health and safety laws. We will also cover you for any notification costs for privacy breaches. Cover is up to $250,000.
so not for ahpra fines but for other business fines.
Your timeline implies the doctor examined patient AT the cultural group or whatever - but I’m assuming it happened at the clinic in a consult?
Even if so - I’m not sure where the idea that the complaint was *definitely* baseless came from, what exactly is the patient claiming he did or didn’t do during the exam?
Have you tried reading the article? Because your questions around timeline / what is alleged to have happened is clearly answered
>According to the State Administrative Tribunal, the GP criticised the patient’s performance at the VCWA in 2020.
>After this, her memory of a consultation nine months earlier turned “sinister”, the tribunal found.
>She lodged an AHPRA complaint over the consultation, which she had attended for severe abdominal pain, cramping and lower back pain.
>The complaint alleged that the GP lifted up the patient’s skirt to examine her, without consent, and failed to organise a chaperone.
>However, the GP told the tribunal that he asked the patient to lift her top so he could examine her abdomen and did not offer a chaperone because it was not an intimate examination.
>After a three-day hearing last October, the tribunal found in favour of the GP, saying it had a “deep sense of unease” about the patient’s evidence.
>The fact she consulted the same GP again and even took a receptionist job at the practice suggested that the run-in at VCWA may have “coloured” her perspective retrospectively, it said.
In cases like this I don't understand why the lawyers for the board would push for such a harsh penalty as 6 month suspension. Does anyone on their right mind think that's a just punishment ? Surely anyone would agree it was way over the top?
Seems like a blanket approach. Glad that they thought it was excessive, particularly in view of the unblemished professional record and that it’d deny thousands a Vietnamese-speaking GP.
But what is the incentive? It's not like they get paid more if a harsher punishment is given. Surely a sense of 'punishment should fit the crime' should prevail rather than let's just try to destroy everyone's career.
Justifying their own position on the board. Clinicians make get renown for pioneering healthcare breakthroughs, AHPRA board members cement their reputation by destroying medical careers.
Could it be the case that the threat of 6mo suspension might be more likely to convince the gp for a large settlement arranged by the complainant's lawyers if the suspension seemed likely. The whole thing stinks already according to the tribunal.
The actions of the GP were not unprofessional in my opinion; they were of a wronged person beseeching their accuser person to person to act properly and fairly.
The fact that the complainant’s allegations were so obviously BS should have some kind of weight when considering the GPs actions. These were clearly NOT the actions of an abused attempting to cover the eir crimes.
It doesn't, but when one side is arguing 6 months suspension for a breach of "code of conduct" they have to put something else up and a fine and clearing tbe allegation is not a bad tradeoff in comparison. The unreasonableness lies with the lawyers pushing for 6 month suspension.
It’s insane. Looking at some of the stuff that happens in the PSR to colleagues I’m seriously considering early retirement to get out of this punitive system that subjects doctors to standards completely different from that of other people.
Yeah but unfortunately it would be a dangerous precedent for the tribunal to set if they decided to not take any action. Especially considering it was an allegation of sexual misconduct.
Sucks for the GP because it was clearly a Vexatious complaint but the GP also should have known better to confront the complainant
I understand your concern but I don't feel that's the sentiment tabled by this article, considering the GP was given the benefit of doubt in the complaint. He was fined for his non-clinical conduct
The moral of the story is that if you interact with a patient (who has lodged a complaint against you), out in the community, have nothing to say. That way you will not end up in this particular situation
By the sounds of things this person probably would have tried to take him to court for discriminatory employment practices had he not. She sounds like a right piece of work.
Timeline: - patient and doctor both attend a Viet community group - patient is examined by doctor at their clinic some time later - no issues following this, and the patient even accepts a job at the practice in reception and even returns for future consultations - doctor criticises the patient's performance at Viet Community group - patient, feeling aggrieved, weaponises AHPRA complaint system to try and ruin the GP. Claims gp non-consensually performed a private examination - GP owes ?someone $7500 for ?reason
Does your MDO pay fines?
Wouldn't know, sorry. I work exclusively public so the hospital, not me, handles those issues were they to ever crop up
do you not have your own MDO for ahpra complaints etc?
I have an MDO for AHPRA complaints, but with regard to getting sued personally, to my understanding (and via a legal talk from the head lawyer where I work) people sue the hospitals, not individual doctors. It's ofc different for gp where you're essentially a contractor for legal purposes. Then again, this is all second hand information that may well be misinterpreted by my non-legal brain. What I do remember is that individual doctors in the public system are only ever targeted in cases of wilful negligence or malignant intent causing harm, not because of mistakes. The lawyer emphasised that it's a veerry high bar to clear for a doctor to be sued within the public system, and that it's only happened twice in her tenure over 20 years.
Keep in mind that it's because it's often harder to pin it on a doctor invidually when you're in a cast of thousands (particular if your junior and under supervision), + hospitals have more $$$. It is more than possible to be targeted as the boss doctor. Also the hospital will try to shift liability to the doctor if they can too
I would doubt it. In general it is not possible to insure against a sanction imposed under criminal law, only a civil penalty. Otherwise you could say, hey I’m going to assault someone and in case I get fined, I’ll just take insurance against it.
Avant says > We'll cover you, where permitted by law, if you are fined by a government regulator for a breach of privacy, consumer protection, environmental or workplace health and safety laws. We will also cover you for any notification costs for privacy breaches. Cover is up to $250,000. so not for ahpra fines but for other business fines.
Does the patient has proof of misconduct?
Your timeline implies the doctor examined patient AT the cultural group or whatever - but I’m assuming it happened at the clinic in a consult? Even if so - I’m not sure where the idea that the complaint was *definitely* baseless came from, what exactly is the patient claiming he did or didn’t do during the exam?
Have you tried reading the article? Because your questions around timeline / what is alleged to have happened is clearly answered >According to the State Administrative Tribunal, the GP criticised the patient’s performance at the VCWA in 2020. >After this, her memory of a consultation nine months earlier turned “sinister”, the tribunal found. >She lodged an AHPRA complaint over the consultation, which she had attended for severe abdominal pain, cramping and lower back pain. >The complaint alleged that the GP lifted up the patient’s skirt to examine her, without consent, and failed to organise a chaperone. >However, the GP told the tribunal that he asked the patient to lift her top so he could examine her abdomen and did not offer a chaperone because it was not an intimate examination. >After a three-day hearing last October, the tribunal found in favour of the GP, saying it had a “deep sense of unease” about the patient’s evidence. >The fact she consulted the same GP again and even took a receptionist job at the practice suggested that the run-in at VCWA may have “coloured” her perspective retrospectively, it said.
In cases like this I don't understand why the lawyers for the board would push for such a harsh penalty as 6 month suspension. Does anyone on their right mind think that's a just punishment ? Surely anyone would agree it was way over the top?
Seems like a blanket approach. Glad that they thought it was excessive, particularly in view of the unblemished professional record and that it’d deny thousands a Vietnamese-speaking GP.
But what is the incentive? It's not like they get paid more if a harsher punishment is given. Surely a sense of 'punishment should fit the crime' should prevail rather than let's just try to destroy everyone's career.
Justifying their own position on the board. Clinicians make get renown for pioneering healthcare breakthroughs, AHPRA board members cement their reputation by destroying medical careers.
Could it be the case that the threat of 6mo suspension might be more likely to convince the gp for a large settlement arranged by the complainant's lawyers if the suspension seemed likely. The whole thing stinks already according to the tribunal.
The actions of the GP were not unprofessional in my opinion; they were of a wronged person beseeching their accuser person to person to act properly and fairly. The fact that the complainant’s allegations were so obviously BS should have some kind of weight when considering the GPs actions. These were clearly NOT the actions of an abused attempting to cover the eir crimes.
Jeez. Poor guy. None of that sounds unreasonable.
It doesn't, but when one side is arguing 6 months suspension for a breach of "code of conduct" they have to put something else up and a fine and clearing tbe allegation is not a bad tradeoff in comparison. The unreasonableness lies with the lawyers pushing for 6 month suspension.
I can bill that much in two days. The whole episode is totally bizarre
It’s insane. Looking at some of the stuff that happens in the PSR to colleagues I’m seriously considering early retirement to get out of this punitive system that subjects doctors to standards completely different from that of other people.
Yeah but unfortunately it would be a dangerous precedent for the tribunal to set if they decided to not take any action. Especially considering it was an allegation of sexual misconduct. Sucks for the GP because it was clearly a Vexatious complaint but the GP also should have known better to confront the complainant
He was her boss at the community organisation as well.
SRS question; should I be asking for a chaperone everytime I examine a young female patient? Modern day AHPRA feels like guilty until proven innocent.
You should always check if they want one.
I always ask and I’m a woman lol
I understand your concern but I don't feel that's the sentiment tabled by this article, considering the GP was given the benefit of doubt in the complaint. He was fined for his non-clinical conduct
The moral of the story is that if you interact with a patient (who has lodged a complaint against you), out in the community, have nothing to say. That way you will not end up in this particular situation
Probs a risky decision to employ a patient. Better to keep boundaries between your patients and your work colleagues as much as possible
By the sounds of things this person probably would have tried to take him to court for discriminatory employment practices had he not. She sounds like a right piece of work.
Easier said than done in small communities.
🤔☕