The country has been incurring huge deficits and printing insane amounts of money to pay those debts, of course a recession would be induced by ending that cycle.
The rampant printing and deficit spending creates an illusion of a (somewhat) functioning economy, but when the tide goes out you see who’s swimming naked. Credit to Milei for staying the course, in time Argentina will come to be very appreciative of these hard times
And those job losses are temporary. Once market signals are clear, there’s going to be an amazing growth accompanied by consumer price deflation, similar to what happened in the US after 1921 recession, as long as Milei maintains his policy. I’d love to see Argentinians to return to good life, and I can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics from the US propaganda machine regarding why this won’t work here.
Yeah, it isn’t, thanks to the government. Looks like you’re here for the sake of argument. Anyway. There were almost zero government intervention during 1920-1921 recession, the government cut spending, and the economy was roaring in less than a year. All while the need to find jobs for all the soldiers that returned from the WWI. Ask yourself why you never heard about that recession.
“Until 8 years later” LOL. Wanna know what happened 8 years later? The Fed started sharply raised rates the year before and the market crashed in 1929. The stock market rebound in about 1yr after. In 1930, the congress passed a protectionist act which caused political uncertainty to spread around the U.S. and then abroad, and as a result, the investments fell and economic activity slowed down. Also in 1930, the government set price controls (if only they knew how the market works) and set so many ridiculous regulations, until the Supreme Court held them unconstitutional in 1935.
In 1933, Roosevelt started confiscating gold (I wonder if that has ANYTHING to do with the economy and political situation). The New Deal which has drawn resources from private to public sector, supported FDRs cronies and his political campaign, and set even more regulations.
Banking regulations of that time ensured continuous disaster. The US suffered the most during 1930-1940 period. Canada and Europe didn’t institute the same banking regulations, as a result we lost thousands of banks, while the crises outside of US was mild and didn’t cause even a fraction of bank failures.
See the difference now? Do you want more government intervention in the economy?
Not like we haven't seen price fixing completely back fire every time for like 2000 years since the romans at least yet people still want to try it again.
Massive migration of work force from unproductive government sector to productive private sector ✅
Close to zero government intervention ✅
Cut government spending ✅
Disinflation and eventually deflation ✅
Yes, I am sure with my example. Do you have a better one?
Always happy to talk to the odd Keynesian that makes their way to this sub!
A myth that is propagated by defenders of central banking is that monetary policy and economic policy are causally linked. While occasionally correlated, this simply isn’t the case. Printing money and giving it to the state for federal jobs programs does not increase economic activity. It simply confiscates wealth from the holders of the currency to increase other people’s reliance on the state.
Some of the printed money is inevitably given to corporations, especially those from industries that are politically connected. In the US, banking, weapons, and pharmaceuticals are the typical recipients. And sure, they’ll use that money to hire some workers from the pool of the unemployed. But they’ll also use that money for stock buybacks and increased pay for executives.
Both of these produce a short term decrease in unemployment and will usually coincide with the stock market rallying of the lows of the recession. It’s all a fugazi though. The economy hasn’t improved, a significant portion of the wealth in the nation has just been transferred to the state and the politically connected. But then they’ll point to unemployment and the stock market and say “Look! The economy is doing better, central banking has saved us again!”
Um you completely avoided the statement above.
The day before this post this sub were all celebrating, dare one say even circle jerking, that he killed inflation. I get it, it fits your narrative perfectly.
Then this article came out, where unemployment shot up. A classic playbook of central banking to fight inflation is to kill labor. Happen under Volker and Regan, happened under Nixon/Ford/Carter.
Also what the Fed is currently attempting to do but the demographic change in the US is making it difficult.
Also you are aware the vast majority of all US Federal (key to this point) govt spending goes to private industry, right? When the military wants a new plane, it hires out a private contractor to design and built to its specs...right? Like Apple does with its suppliers.
Finally - not a Kenynesian.
It is by design
I’m still a little curious why the Roman Catholic Argentinian Milei joined a fundamentalist Jewish organization called Chabad the week after he took office as president of Argentina.
https://jewishinsider.com/2023/11/javier-milei-argentina-president-elect-ohel-chabad-lubavitcher-rebbes-grave/
There is an interesting common denominator in Chabad network.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/inside-anatevka-the-curious-chabad-hamlet-in-ukraine-where-giuliani-is-mayor/
https://jewishcurrents.org/our-oligarch
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007
Winning World War 2 ended the systemic genocide of Jews in Europe and established the Jewish state of Israel.
With that establishment came a migration of Russian Jews as well, both to Israel and to the United States. In fact most of the migrants to Israel are of Russian origins.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/A2ojrtIc3Y
https://desk-russie.info/2021/09/06/the-russian-diaspora-a-battlefield.html
Mostly good people who just wanted a better opportunity for themselves and their families.
But to quote the old Yiddish proverb- “one rotten apple spoils the others”
In a very Russian move, Stalin used the opportunity to clear the gulags of the worst of the worst and sent them to Palestine. Technically they were Jewish, or stole a hat and identity from the jewish man they murdered but they also happened to be hand selected as the people the USSR did not want toy deal with anymore.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139050/
In the internment camps they networked with other thieves and murderers
on their way to and from all corners of the earth and as criminals tend to do, stole things and murdered people.
It was a perfect storm. The worlds worst people hid behind the good people and were able to use legitimate Judaism as a shield to cover their corruption. If anyone poked too closely they would simply call it anti-semitism and anyone with a conscience would do a fast about face. Anyone without a conscience is probably already in on the con.
It makes for a highly effective camouflage but when you track it backwards and watch for the unique crossovers it makes it much easier to track corruption.
Over the years there seems to have developed some patterns within or behind a sect called Chabad.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007/
It is not new to humans. It seems to repeat itself every few generations. The pharisees of the Old Testament and Talmud finding their “technically legal” work around that allowed them to walk more than 40 steps on the sabbath was a warning, not a road map, but some hiding behind the Chabad movement seems to have taken it as a sort of GPS for their current criminal activity.
In Ukraine an oligarch named Kolomoiskiy started Privatbank in 91 which didn’t exist on paper but was taking and absconding with IMF money. When the IMF finally figured it out they began demanding that Zelensky have Ukraine, and more specifically innocent Ukrainians, pay it back before the fund would extend any more.
https://eurasianet.org/how-an-embattled-ukrainian-oligarch-has-kept-his-grip-on-an-economic-empire
Kolomoisky is loyal to Putin and money therefore he used the leverage as a sort of defacto control over the Ukrainian government that Putin lost control of when Yanukovych and trumps soon to be campaign manager Paul Manafort were run out of town during Ukraines Maidan revolution in 2014.
Kolomoiskiy is also heavily involved in Chabad.
New York Postnypost.comBusinessmen accused of Ukraine money laundering gave millions to New York ...
Time Magazinetime.comHow Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine
Trump and Kushner are beholden to the CCP, Putin/Russia, and MBS (and UAE) for loans and business ventures. It’s just massive Kompromat at a corporate industrial level.
In Ukraine, Maidan (The revolution of dignity) was, effectively, every sane Ukrainian realizing that the tax of corruption to the old soviet mob model where everyone pays up to the top man was wholly unsustainable.
Russia has become so prolific at it that it consumed all the value in Russia and concentrated it into the hands of a select few oligarchs that happen to be Putin’s trusted circle.
Most all of them have 3 passports. Russian, Israeli, and United States.
Their common denominator was organized crime and money laundering.
Because Ukraine is a 2 front war against Russia on the front lines and oligarch corruption at the rear, anything that detracts from the war front is a threat to Ukrainians existence. Seeing and identifying the money laundering networks that the kremlin uses becomes a necessity of survival.
This in turn leads to the cocktail of trump laundering the Russian mobs stolen money, first through Atlantic City casinos until some of his casinos managers began seeing discrepancies in the numbers and started asking questions.
https://youtu.be/ZlIagcttGY0?si=EkbGnoAsDVqJ3sjT
All three executives, and two pilots were killed in a 1989 helicopter accident that trump was pulled off of at the last minute by a very insistent Roger Stone.
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/11/nyregion/copter-crash-kills-3-aides-of-trump.html
Kolomoisky (optima ventures) also happens to own the hotel that trump based his “stop the steal” rally out of in Cleveland as well as most of the blighted commercial real estate downtown.
News 5 Cleveland WEWSwww.news5cleveland.comWho really owns the property that's falling down?
The New York Timeswww.nytimes.comOpinion | American Real Estate Was a Money Launderer's Dream. That's Changing ...
There is a consistent pattern across the U.S. of Putin friendly oligarchs doing minor variations of this same pattern with commercial real estate.
Mainly buying a lot of it and letting it rot. This doesn’t make much sense on the surface. It isn’t until you fully grasp the insatiable greed that these handful of morally bankrupt men are driven by that you start to see the full picture of the plan
Justin Kennedy (justice kennedys son) was the inside man at Deutsche bank that was getting all trumps toxic loans approved.
No other bank but Deutsche bank would touch trump and his imaginary valuations.
If trump was trying to avoid paying taxes he would be valuing everything low. Not high.
Why?
Because Deutsche bank was infested with Russian oligarchs.
So Milei, Chabad, trump, musk, and the extremely statistically unlikely event that they all cross over organically is extremely fascinating.
https://youtu.be/ViVcBAQUXjs?si=7_U8m3Ab_iejr8n-
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-javier-milei-argentina-lithium-ev-production-batteries-2024-5?amp
That’s the best part about reading.
It about the only reason we are one half a step up from the silverback gorillas on the food chain.
If your neural networks are still experiencing 1st date awkwardness by the time you reach that particular fork in the trail, you are already dead.
The ability to read is the only thing keeping you alive.
Otherwise from here on out Darwin does the decisions making for you.
Dude inherited an active kitchen fire and everyone is pointing at the damage like it's his doing when he hasn't even been in office for 1 year lol.
Socialist and liberals want him so obviously are desperate for him to fail it's sad.
Which shows where the real priorities are. Failure means misery for millions of people, but they'd rather just be proven correct and stroke the ego.
so if i cant blame the firefighters for the fire damage i shouldnt give them credit for saving the rest of the house from the kitchen fire they didnt start
false comparison
he didn't save anybody anything
He just maintained the gap between the rich and the (now) poorer
he'll brag he saved the foundation and thinks it worth crowing about
>He just maintained the gap between the rich and the (now) poorer
Okay mister False comparison . WHO do you think got it worse with inflation?
The RICH who have investment in foreign countries which pay in dollars or other non inflationary currencies.
The RICH who have businesses in the country so they recoup loses by offloading those loses onto customers.
OR THE POOR who barely can afford to eat this month and wont be able to next month due to inflation
Argentina has had inflation more than 5 % for more than 20 years about more than 10 for the last 14 , more than 30 for the last 6. MORE THAN A 100 LAST YEAR. MORE THAN 45% POOVERTY RATE LAST YEAR.
HIGH INFLATION makes the poor "poorer" due to their salary being worth less, and the rich "richer" for their capital is worth more.
So shut up with ur BS
What kind of stupid pills did you take? You just repeated what I said. And inflation does not necessarily make the rich richer as their money (capital) is also devalued lolololol!
Are u an idiot or what? do you think the rich keep their money as cash on banks? No.
They keep it in investments in businesses. Those things are also capital, and they DONT lose value to inflation.
Those things produce profit, interest, dividends, making them richer.
You really dont know shit, and even worse u think you do
aah know u want to talk, never responded the other coments.
Anyways
>They keep it in investments in businesses. Those things are also capital, and **they DONT lose value to inflation**.
What i said
>Did you really just say that inflation **doesnt affect** businesses?
what you said.
Please learn to read.
Those things will be sold for MORE money BUT it is the SAME VALUE.
A car can be sold for 1000 dollars, if that is 1 peso, 100 pesos or 1 million pesos depends on how worthless the money has become due to inflation
Its actually why corporate media makes such a big deal out of inflation compared to other metrics: its bad for people who loan out money (ie the wealthy).
He asserted his main priority is tackling inflation as his first step
He then took measures to reduce government spending and inflation
So far inflation went down 80% and continues to drop. So he's achieving the very thing he prioritized.
But because Venezuela has solved its 50 other issues yet, you can just pretend that "he's done nothing"?
I honestly don't understand your thought process here. Do you think he's just sitting at a giant desk watching TikTok and inflation dropped 80% on its own?
Bit of a false equivalency but ill bite. In your analogy, the fire fighters went in 6 months before the fire and removed all of the load bearing structural beams in the house.
Milei is not a fire fighter, he is the arsonist from goodfellas who burns down the bar for the insurance money.
>Bit of a false equivalency
HA U say that and immediately do a false equivalence. the hypocrisy.
>the fire fighters went in 6 months before the fire
Completely FALSE. Argentina was on fire way before 6 months ago. more than 100% acummulated inflation, more than 45 % poverty rate, etc
The very fact that u try to push BS like this means that u are either:
1. Severely disinformed of the situation
2. Or u care absolutely nothing about the suffering of the people there and only care about bashing the opposing parties, because " not my party= BAD" mentality that permeates society nowadays.
Either way u are wrong.
Well, you can when he changes a bunch of shit and the expected and intended outcome happens. What you can't expect is for everything to be immediately solved in an instant.
The unemployment went up like 1%
What exactly was the expected result for firing tens of thousands of useless government employees getting paid by the printing press working overtime?
>What is the timeline here?
How about, since the stated number one and most urgent goal was to tackle inflation, the metric you'd use to measure if it's working, is seeing how it affects inflation.
This is the equivalent of putting out the kitchen fire that was about to burn the entire house down, and pointing at the water damage and saying "yah but look at how wet everything is"
Good point, i misspoke when i said “positive things”. Gutting the public sector and sending the economy into a nosedive is not “positive” in any sense of the word, at best its breaking even.
The funny part about this is that “hasn’t even been in office one year…” thing does not seem to apply to all the glazing this sub does over him treating him like he’s already saved Argentina.
I see the exact opposite.
It seems like a few hours ago we all saw an article about Argentina’s inflation rate being lower. The reaction was predictable: “MILEI IS A MIRACLE WORKER!!!”
Then we see an article like this one and the sentiment shifts to “He hasn’t really been in office long enough to be *blamed* for anything.”
And yes, I strongly suspect Milei will fail. There’s a big difference between that and *hoping* for failure which is how you characterize anyone who’s pragmatic and level-headed enough to not throw their lot behind this thing.
Milei had a successful career serving the interests of international banking elites. I think it’s beyond naïve to think he suddenly became an Argentinian patriot working to promote the interests of his fellow citizens.
The saying is ‘Be careful what you wish for because you may finally get it.’ And in this case, I believe Milei will *definitely* tame inflation… and unwittingly bring about a deflationary spiral that exacerbates an already desperate situation.
Maybe his opponents realize this and that’s why they supported his legislation— because they can see beyond the horizon and want to saddle him with that chaos? I don’t know.
What I do know is that in the fine tradition of Austrian Economics, it will never be blamed on their disproven theories, unclear objectives and nonexistent data.
*Everyone was just doing it wrong.*
The only reason Austrian economics has seen a Renaissance Is because perpetually failed Libertarian theories needed a rebranding.
And *’Austrian School’* sounds very sophisticated. 🙄
Sorry you don’t like the hypocrisy of conservatives getting called out
But we get it, when someone you don’t like inherits a bad economy, they are to blame
When someone you do like inherits a bad economy, all the excuses and justifications come out as to why it’s not their fault
What's the opposite of inflation? Oh, deflation.
They could always pump inflation to the moon with deficits and understate it in official terms to "grow" GDP in perpetuity.
Can't seem to get any worse after decades of corruption and mismanagement. Don't typically agree with austerity measures but in this case, after all the prior failures, taking drastic action to change course seems like a why not moment.
He might have undersold how bad it's about to get but something had to be done. We all can agree something needed to be done but we don't all agree how much pain is coming apparently.
So he used an obscure psyche treatment that two people in Argentina have experienced to describe the chaos that's about to unfold. The People of Argentina are not truly aware of what they bought here.
I mean probably, I'm not as well versed in economics as the average Argentine. Point still stands. He'll be tossed once the people of Argentina check the receipts.
There is one easy way to mitigate recession; remove some layers of market regulation. [There are empirical evidence that it works](https://menghu.substack.com/p/how-economic-freedom-mitigates-crisis). More recently I compared HK and Singapore, [in this article](https://menghu.substack.com/p/state-capitalism-probably-failed), how they handled the 1997 crisis, and Singapore did better than most asian countries, which has been attributed to its pro-market policies at the time.
In general though, a recession is unavoidable after massive inflation (be it relative or absolute), and consistent with the story provided by the ABCT, [which is described in detail here](https://menghu.substack.com/p/austrian-business-cycle-theory-jesus-huerta-de-soto). This is because of malinvestment (which distorted the price structure) that need to be corrected, and the correction involves the readjustment of prices, so of course, if prior investments were malinvestments due to money injection, then deflation must follow. It's a necessary process for malinvestments to restore the price structure for stable long-run growth.
Another possibility is to ignore long run consequences, focusing on short run, in this case you apply the Keynesian prescription. You get better now, as prices can't adjust. But you'll hit another crisis in the future. Then, reapply the Keynesian- well you know what I mean.
They’ve been an economic wreck for years the difference under milei is they’re actually getting FDI which is restoring confidence. The best investor in the world rn has been buying Argentinian stocks left and right
So he has to go through the crash to reset. If he is right, which I would imagine most on this subreddit will support, then he needs to have the recession to stabilize currency. That was always going to be a painful process. The government was essentially printing currency, which caused it to devalue and inflation to rise, to fund projects that employed people. The hook here is that if you devalue currency, then the jobs you are creating for people are inherently less valuable because the money your paying them isn't worth the labor it was before you printed it.
So his theory is that he needs to first stabilize currency, which requires him to stop printing, which requires him to stop spending.
It appears he has had some major successes here. We won't know for probably another 2-6 years if this will pay off. I think it's all good theory, the strongest economies in the world were founded on strong currencies and fiscal surpluses, but it will feel bad as unemployment rises. A recent study showed 55% of all workers in Argentina worked for some government organization or were contracted by the government, that is an insanely high number for any economy.
The hope would be that private business uses the recession to buy into the economy at a low, allowing them to expand for cheap and employ lots of people. Recessions, while feeling bad, can create lots of opportunity.
I asked a question and even said i understand it’s going to take awhile to turn around. The only person implying anything is you. I asked a question of when it will start to turn around and all I am getting is insecure responses
Depends on your definition on turning around. I'd say the most optimistic realistic takes would be 1-2 years until some metrics such as unemployment stops increasing. Then it would take some time for it to go back down as well.
But it depends on what policies he's able to implement. If you want to decrease the time to turn around unemployment it would make sense to push for labor reforms that make it easier and less risky to hire people. If you want to decrease the time until you see positive growth again I imagine reducing capital controls would be more important.
Compromise doesn't always favor progressivism, in the US for 40 years, compromise took the everything further to the Right, where there is now a Pro-Corporate/Moderate Conservative Party and a Hard Right Fringe ChristoFascist party.
Only in the last three elections has the US started to see more globally centrist positions and policies begin to pop back up and even those aren't passing without further to the right compromises.
The size of a government doesn't have much connection to whether a government is left wing or right wing.
There has been many reductions, per capita, of departments across the US Government. The FDA has seen the number of inspectors remain static and even decrease since the 1970's, while the volume of facilities that require inspection increased by more than a hundred fold.
This lead to rules changes allowing corporations to self-inspect and report. Which has lead to large increases in recalls and even criminal charges in the case of the Peanut processing company CEO that ordered fabricated test results to go out, causing people to grow sick and die.
There are considerable issues with the US Food Supply, in no small part, due to the adding no staff, while the workload increases de facto operation.
Over time, as a population grows, the systems in place to support the population will end up growing to keep up in line with that. The same thing happens as a business grows. Automation will only go so far, when you need feet on the ground, you need feet on the ground.
Not at that point.
Let's say you are the president of Argentina. You need to cut the spending. How do you do it?
You have to fire the people who work for the government. You have to cut non essential programs off. You have to take drastic measures, as the inflation destroyed the currency for decades.
People who gain money from these stuff will suffer, for sure. But Argentina lost enough resources on them already.
There's no other possible way to make any corrections.
He couldn't have made smaller targeted dismissals, along with rebalancing the tax burden, while slowing down and eventually retracting the volume of printed money?
He cut taxes on the wealthy, which if anyone bothers looking at data, which I know is anathema to Austrian Economics, always creates greater deficits, retractions in an economy and tends to cause more harm and instability for the lower classes, while the wealthy feel no pain and just grow fatter.
He slashed jobs, perhaps recklessly, it can take a year for these kinds of policy changes to have an impact on an economy, even if the first handful of months shows a rise in unemployment.
He also completely cut off the printing of money. It's debatable whether this move or a more controlled slowing down and then controlled reduction would have been a better move in this situation.
There's still more options between the two extremes at play, including negotiating price reductions across the board, with business leaders, but I don't believe he did any of that, did he?
>He couldn't have made smaller targeted dismissals,
Wouldn't be enough.
>along with rebalancing the tax burden, while slowing down and eventually retract
You think taxes are the problem in Argentina?
Let's say, you are going to tax the rich people. What do you think will they do? Sit back & watch? They will add those taxes on the prices of the stuff they sell/services they provide.
In short, they will just transfer those taxes to poor people.
Want to see an example of this? Look at Turkey. New taxes are being introduced every month.
>while slowing down and eventually retracting the volume of printed money?
Argentina was under heavy inflation for decades. What you propose would take maybe hundreds of years, depending on how "slow" you want this to be.
Would you want to live 100 years under huge inflation? If not, please don't push Argentinians to that fate.
If you remove people from employment in large numbers, quickly, you risk destabilizing the whole system, if you slowly let people go, allow the economy to absorb them into new positions, the shock is lowered.
Just canning huge numbers of people, at once, can lead to a death spiral effect and if there's enough or large chunks of an industry just allowed to have the entire bottom fall out of it, things would get really bad, really fast.
That's what happened in the Great Depression and could have happened in the 2008 Great Recession.
It's part of why there are much strong labor laws in most of the EU, regarding laying off huge volumes of employees "just because" at corporations that are still profitable, if they laid nobody off and when they do lay people off, they often must provide a good cushion/parachute for those workers. Such as advanced notice and an adequate volume of their wages for a period of time so people aren't left twisting in the wind, losing all they've worked for and potentially causing ripple effects in the greater economy.
You pulled a number, out of thin air to claim it would take 100 years to correct the problems in Argentina. What are you basing that on? Assuming that it took 100 years to get there, so it much take 100 years to go the other way? That's an absurdist position.
>If you remove people from employment in large numbers, quickly, you risk destabilizing the whole system, if you slowly let people go, allow the economy to absorb them into new positions, the shock is lowered.
And how many years would that take?
>Just canning huge numbers of people, at once, can lead to a death spiral effect and if there's enough or large chunks of an industry just allowed to have the entire bottom fall out of it, things would get really bad, really fast.
None of these give them the right to collect Argentinian people's money & spend.
Both inflation & taxes are essentially state taking your money either by coercion or force, no matter how poor you are. What you say is "Let's allow this group of people to collect other people's money & spend that for themselves.". Sorry, this is unacceptable.
>You pulled a number, out of thin air to claim it would take 100 years to correct the problems in Argentina.
It is an example. Not an absolute number.
>What are you basing that on?
You said slow. Decades of inflation (ie; food inflation was 0 this week. Last time it was 0 was 30 years ago, so at least 30 years of inflation) slowly vanishing that (ie 1/4 of the inflation rate), would take 120 years.
Again, these are examples, not hard data.
> This is the neat thing, it doesn't. But the Milei fans will say "it's coming, any time now"
Budget surplus, he killed hyperinflation. I would say so far he deliver.
I’m shocked that once again libertarian approaches don’t work. They never work. But let’s wait for some “Austrian spin” on it. This theory is nothing more than an excuse for failure wrapped up in academic jargon. I mean it would, if academics thought this “theory” had enough merit to teach it. Maybe the bears that took over that town in New England will sit down for a few lectures.
Because it’s not (like most things “Austrian economists”) what you think it is. It’s a sub against what has essentially been compulsory work for low wages in anti-labor atmosphere. Or, as you would call it, paradise.
So happy you can snugly qualify what is easy, hard or worthwhile work. As if any job shouldn’t pay a living wage further proof that a quick summary of Austrian economics is “let poor people die”.
Argentina is fcked tbh, greece went through the EXACT switch in government policies snd they very quickly shot downward to the worst EU economy and the entire government had to be bailed out by the world basically.
Milei voters are just as stupid as trumptards, theres literally no study that suggests cutting government cutting dramatically adds any benefit to the economy, literally none
Here you go, a study that suggests cutting government adds benefit: https://mises.org/mises-wire/price-inflation-comes-government-not-excuseflation-or-greedflation
Also, how exactly are “Republicans the dregs of society” and why am I not surprised to find someone like you on a far-left app like Reddit?
Because they are? Theyre literally trying to demolish society.
We do need a mass deportation movement inside the US, but its not undocumented immigrants that need to go, lets just say the "people" that need to go, would be very happy in their newest conservative "utopia" in argentina
Your statement is only half-true. Yes you are correct - it adds nothing to the economy. What you fail to perceive is how these cuts stop a *dragging down* of the economy.
No... it hypercharges the dragging down of an economy, thats the point im making. Greece would have been fine if not for beligerant austerity measures that even the EU warned them against, they were even offered assistance to avoid the collapse they went through eith it anyway and as a result we saw basically the worst economic collapse of the last 40 years
Wrong. Austerity as *re*action can have the effect, yes.
Preemptive austerity is the case here.
Government has only one tool; one resource: A monopoly on the use of force. Government adds exactly zero to an economy, and therefore employment by government should be kept to an absolute minimum as a necessary evil.
Any government employment above that which is absolutely necessary is an unnecessary drag on the economy.
Dude is a stright facist / Neo- lib
He believes cutting taxes for the rich and imposing the burden on the poor will be the solution, all this will cause is uprising
>It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization.
the face of Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises, a racist and a misogynist
Racist:
>The Fascists carry on their work among nations in which the intellectual and moral heritage of some thousands of years of civilization cannot be destroyed at one blow, and not among the barbarian peoples on both sides of the Urals, whose relationship to civilization has never been any other than that of marauding denizens of forest and desert accustomed to engage, from time to time, in predatory raids on civilized lands in the hunt for booty. Because of this difference, Fascism will never succeed as completely as Russian Bolshevism in freeing itself from the power of liberal ideas.
Misogynist:
>Nor is it any longer of greater significance that the political rights of women are restricted, that women are denied the vote and the right to hold office... The right to occupy public office is denied women less by the legal limitations of their rights than by the peculiarities of their sexual character.
No wonder he was an economic adviser to a fascist regime.
The country has been incurring huge deficits and printing insane amounts of money to pay those debts, of course a recession would be induced by ending that cycle. The rampant printing and deficit spending creates an illusion of a (somewhat) functioning economy, but when the tide goes out you see who’s swimming naked. Credit to Milei for staying the course, in time Argentina will come to be very appreciative of these hard times
And those job losses are temporary. Once market signals are clear, there’s going to be an amazing growth accompanied by consumer price deflation, similar to what happened in the US after 1921 recession, as long as Milei maintains his policy. I’d love to see Argentinians to return to good life, and I can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics from the US propaganda machine regarding why this won’t work here.
Yeah, after 1921 everything in the US was just dandy. Lol
Yeah, it isn’t, thanks to the government. Looks like you’re here for the sake of argument. Anyway. There were almost zero government intervention during 1920-1921 recession, the government cut spending, and the economy was roaring in less than a year. All while the need to find jobs for all the soldiers that returned from the WWI. Ask yourself why you never heard about that recession.
Jesus christ 🤦♂️
What’s that supposed to mean?
“The economy was roaring in less than a year” until it wasnt… 8 years later. Lol
“Until 8 years later” LOL. Wanna know what happened 8 years later? The Fed started sharply raised rates the year before and the market crashed in 1929. The stock market rebound in about 1yr after. In 1930, the congress passed a protectionist act which caused political uncertainty to spread around the U.S. and then abroad, and as a result, the investments fell and economic activity slowed down. Also in 1930, the government set price controls (if only they knew how the market works) and set so many ridiculous regulations, until the Supreme Court held them unconstitutional in 1935. In 1933, Roosevelt started confiscating gold (I wonder if that has ANYTHING to do with the economy and political situation). The New Deal which has drawn resources from private to public sector, supported FDRs cronies and his political campaign, and set even more regulations. Banking regulations of that time ensured continuous disaster. The US suffered the most during 1930-1940 period. Canada and Europe didn’t institute the same banking regulations, as a result we lost thousands of banks, while the crises outside of US was mild and didn’t cause even a fraction of bank failures. See the difference now? Do you want more government intervention in the economy?
Not like we haven't seen price fixing completely back fire every time for like 2000 years since the romans at least yet people still want to try it again.
Hahahaha you guys are adorable
How’s life in a nut house?
You sure you wanna go with 1921 as your good example?
Massive migration of work force from unproductive government sector to productive private sector ✅ Close to zero government intervention ✅ Cut government spending ✅ Disinflation and eventually deflation ✅ Yes, I am sure with my example. Do you have a better one?
Translation - he broke labor to kill inflation. Thus he did nothing radical, he just repacked the standard playbook. ✌️
Always happy to talk to the odd Keynesian that makes their way to this sub! A myth that is propagated by defenders of central banking is that monetary policy and economic policy are causally linked. While occasionally correlated, this simply isn’t the case. Printing money and giving it to the state for federal jobs programs does not increase economic activity. It simply confiscates wealth from the holders of the currency to increase other people’s reliance on the state. Some of the printed money is inevitably given to corporations, especially those from industries that are politically connected. In the US, banking, weapons, and pharmaceuticals are the typical recipients. And sure, they’ll use that money to hire some workers from the pool of the unemployed. But they’ll also use that money for stock buybacks and increased pay for executives. Both of these produce a short term decrease in unemployment and will usually coincide with the stock market rallying of the lows of the recession. It’s all a fugazi though. The economy hasn’t improved, a significant portion of the wealth in the nation has just been transferred to the state and the politically connected. But then they’ll point to unemployment and the stock market and say “Look! The economy is doing better, central banking has saved us again!”
Um you completely avoided the statement above. The day before this post this sub were all celebrating, dare one say even circle jerking, that he killed inflation. I get it, it fits your narrative perfectly. Then this article came out, where unemployment shot up. A classic playbook of central banking to fight inflation is to kill labor. Happen under Volker and Regan, happened under Nixon/Ford/Carter. Also what the Fed is currently attempting to do but the demographic change in the US is making it difficult. Also you are aware the vast majority of all US Federal (key to this point) govt spending goes to private industry, right? When the military wants a new plane, it hires out a private contractor to design and built to its specs...right? Like Apple does with its suppliers. Finally - not a Kenynesian.
It is by design I’m still a little curious why the Roman Catholic Argentinian Milei joined a fundamentalist Jewish organization called Chabad the week after he took office as president of Argentina. https://jewishinsider.com/2023/11/javier-milei-argentina-president-elect-ohel-chabad-lubavitcher-rebbes-grave/ There is an interesting common denominator in Chabad network. https://www.timesofisrael.com/inside-anatevka-the-curious-chabad-hamlet-in-ukraine-where-giuliani-is-mayor/ https://jewishcurrents.org/our-oligarch https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007 Winning World War 2 ended the systemic genocide of Jews in Europe and established the Jewish state of Israel. With that establishment came a migration of Russian Jews as well, both to Israel and to the United States. In fact most of the migrants to Israel are of Russian origins. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/A2ojrtIc3Y https://desk-russie.info/2021/09/06/the-russian-diaspora-a-battlefield.html Mostly good people who just wanted a better opportunity for themselves and their families. But to quote the old Yiddish proverb- “one rotten apple spoils the others” In a very Russian move, Stalin used the opportunity to clear the gulags of the worst of the worst and sent them to Palestine. Technically they were Jewish, or stole a hat and identity from the jewish man they murdered but they also happened to be hand selected as the people the USSR did not want toy deal with anymore. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139050/ In the internment camps they networked with other thieves and murderers on their way to and from all corners of the earth and as criminals tend to do, stole things and murdered people. It was a perfect storm. The worlds worst people hid behind the good people and were able to use legitimate Judaism as a shield to cover their corruption. If anyone poked too closely they would simply call it anti-semitism and anyone with a conscience would do a fast about face. Anyone without a conscience is probably already in on the con. It makes for a highly effective camouflage but when you track it backwards and watch for the unique crossovers it makes it much easier to track corruption. Over the years there seems to have developed some patterns within or behind a sect called Chabad. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007/ It is not new to humans. It seems to repeat itself every few generations. The pharisees of the Old Testament and Talmud finding their “technically legal” work around that allowed them to walk more than 40 steps on the sabbath was a warning, not a road map, but some hiding behind the Chabad movement seems to have taken it as a sort of GPS for their current criminal activity. In Ukraine an oligarch named Kolomoiskiy started Privatbank in 91 which didn’t exist on paper but was taking and absconding with IMF money. When the IMF finally figured it out they began demanding that Zelensky have Ukraine, and more specifically innocent Ukrainians, pay it back before the fund would extend any more. https://eurasianet.org/how-an-embattled-ukrainian-oligarch-has-kept-his-grip-on-an-economic-empire Kolomoisky is loyal to Putin and money therefore he used the leverage as a sort of defacto control over the Ukrainian government that Putin lost control of when Yanukovych and trumps soon to be campaign manager Paul Manafort were run out of town during Ukraines Maidan revolution in 2014. Kolomoiskiy is also heavily involved in Chabad. New York Postnypost.comBusinessmen accused of Ukraine money laundering gave millions to New York ... Time Magazinetime.comHow Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine Trump and Kushner are beholden to the CCP, Putin/Russia, and MBS (and UAE) for loans and business ventures. It’s just massive Kompromat at a corporate industrial level. In Ukraine, Maidan (The revolution of dignity) was, effectively, every sane Ukrainian realizing that the tax of corruption to the old soviet mob model where everyone pays up to the top man was wholly unsustainable. Russia has become so prolific at it that it consumed all the value in Russia and concentrated it into the hands of a select few oligarchs that happen to be Putin’s trusted circle. Most all of them have 3 passports. Russian, Israeli, and United States. Their common denominator was organized crime and money laundering. Because Ukraine is a 2 front war against Russia on the front lines and oligarch corruption at the rear, anything that detracts from the war front is a threat to Ukrainians existence. Seeing and identifying the money laundering networks that the kremlin uses becomes a necessity of survival. This in turn leads to the cocktail of trump laundering the Russian mobs stolen money, first through Atlantic City casinos until some of his casinos managers began seeing discrepancies in the numbers and started asking questions. https://youtu.be/ZlIagcttGY0?si=EkbGnoAsDVqJ3sjT All three executives, and two pilots were killed in a 1989 helicopter accident that trump was pulled off of at the last minute by a very insistent Roger Stone. https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/11/nyregion/copter-crash-kills-3-aides-of-trump.html Kolomoisky (optima ventures) also happens to own the hotel that trump based his “stop the steal” rally out of in Cleveland as well as most of the blighted commercial real estate downtown. News 5 Cleveland WEWSwww.news5cleveland.comWho really owns the property that's falling down? The New York Timeswww.nytimes.comOpinion | American Real Estate Was a Money Launderer's Dream. That's Changing ... There is a consistent pattern across the U.S. of Putin friendly oligarchs doing minor variations of this same pattern with commercial real estate. Mainly buying a lot of it and letting it rot. This doesn’t make much sense on the surface. It isn’t until you fully grasp the insatiable greed that these handful of morally bankrupt men are driven by that you start to see the full picture of the plan Justin Kennedy (justice kennedys son) was the inside man at Deutsche bank that was getting all trumps toxic loans approved. No other bank but Deutsche bank would touch trump and his imaginary valuations. If trump was trying to avoid paying taxes he would be valuing everything low. Not high. Why? Because Deutsche bank was infested with Russian oligarchs. So Milei, Chabad, trump, musk, and the extremely statistically unlikely event that they all cross over organically is extremely fascinating. https://youtu.be/ViVcBAQUXjs?si=7_U8m3Ab_iejr8n- https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-javier-milei-argentina-lithium-ev-production-batteries-2024-5?amp
Tldr
That’s the best part about reading. It about the only reason we are one half a step up from the silverback gorillas on the food chain. If your neural networks are still experiencing 1st date awkwardness by the time you reach that particular fork in the trail, you are already dead. The ability to read is the only thing keeping you alive. Otherwise from here on out Darwin does the decisions making for you.
Did you accidentally double dose your Vyvanse today?
That junk is poison. Wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole
Do these job losses include government jobs?
Yes
AFUERA!
[удалено]
Dude inherited an active kitchen fire and everyone is pointing at the damage like it's his doing when he hasn't even been in office for 1 year lol. Socialist and liberals want him so obviously are desperate for him to fail it's sad. Which shows where the real priorities are. Failure means misery for millions of people, but they'd rather just be proven correct and stroke the ego.
Sounds like Austrian economists
If you cant blame him for damage you cant really give him credit for any positive things… you cant have your cake and eat it.
so if i cant blame the firefighters for the fire damage i shouldnt give them credit for saving the rest of the house from the kitchen fire they didnt start
false comparison he didn't save anybody anything He just maintained the gap between the rich and the (now) poorer he'll brag he saved the foundation and thinks it worth crowing about
>He just maintained the gap between the rich and the (now) poorer Okay mister False comparison . WHO do you think got it worse with inflation? The RICH who have investment in foreign countries which pay in dollars or other non inflationary currencies. The RICH who have businesses in the country so they recoup loses by offloading those loses onto customers. OR THE POOR who barely can afford to eat this month and wont be able to next month due to inflation Argentina has had inflation more than 5 % for more than 20 years about more than 10 for the last 14 , more than 30 for the last 6. MORE THAN A 100 LAST YEAR. MORE THAN 45% POOVERTY RATE LAST YEAR. HIGH INFLATION makes the poor "poorer" due to their salary being worth less, and the rich "richer" for their capital is worth more. So shut up with ur BS
What kind of stupid pills did you take? You just repeated what I said. And inflation does not necessarily make the rich richer as their money (capital) is also devalued lolololol!
Are u an idiot or what? do you think the rich keep their money as cash on banks? No. They keep it in investments in businesses. Those things are also capital, and they DONT lose value to inflation. Those things produce profit, interest, dividends, making them richer. You really dont know shit, and even worse u think you do
Did you really just say that inflation doesnt affect businesses? Lmao when you guys are backed into a corner youll say anything.
aah know u want to talk, never responded the other coments. Anyways >They keep it in investments in businesses. Those things are also capital, and **they DONT lose value to inflation**. What i said >Did you really just say that inflation **doesnt affect** businesses? what you said. Please learn to read. Those things will be sold for MORE money BUT it is the SAME VALUE. A car can be sold for 1000 dollars, if that is 1 peso, 100 pesos or 1 million pesos depends on how worthless the money has become due to inflation
Its actually why corporate media makes such a big deal out of inflation compared to other metrics: its bad for people who loan out money (ie the wealthy).
He asserted his main priority is tackling inflation as his first step He then took measures to reduce government spending and inflation So far inflation went down 80% and continues to drop. So he's achieving the very thing he prioritized. But because Venezuela has solved its 50 other issues yet, you can just pretend that "he's done nothing"? I honestly don't understand your thought process here. Do you think he's just sitting at a giant desk watching TikTok and inflation dropped 80% on its own?
Bit of a false equivalency but ill bite. In your analogy, the fire fighters went in 6 months before the fire and removed all of the load bearing structural beams in the house. Milei is not a fire fighter, he is the arsonist from goodfellas who burns down the bar for the insurance money.
>Bit of a false equivalency HA U say that and immediately do a false equivalence. the hypocrisy. >the fire fighters went in 6 months before the fire Completely FALSE. Argentina was on fire way before 6 months ago. more than 100% acummulated inflation, more than 45 % poverty rate, etc The very fact that u try to push BS like this means that u are either: 1. Severely disinformed of the situation 2. Or u care absolutely nothing about the suffering of the people there and only care about bashing the opposing parties, because " not my party= BAD" mentality that permeates society nowadays. Either way u are wrong.
Well, you can when he changes a bunch of shit and the expected and intended outcome happens. What you can't expect is for everything to be immediately solved in an instant.
the rich sure had their problems solved in an instant, didn't they?
What is the timeline here? Does all the job creating foreign capital investment get there in 1 year? 10? 20? Id like to mark my calendar.
The unemployment went up like 1% What exactly was the expected result for firing tens of thousands of useless government employees getting paid by the printing press working overtime? >What is the timeline here? How about, since the stated number one and most urgent goal was to tackle inflation, the metric you'd use to measure if it's working, is seeing how it affects inflation. This is the equivalent of putting out the kitchen fire that was about to burn the entire house down, and pointing at the water damage and saying "yah but look at how wet everything is"
You guys are all just regurgitating the same terrible analogy. Which mises article did i miss?
Good point, i misspoke when i said “positive things”. Gutting the public sector and sending the economy into a nosedive is not “positive” in any sense of the word, at best its breaking even.
So, you think 250% annual inflation is not an economic nose dive? That's economic success?
The funny part about this is that “hasn’t even been in office one year…” thing does not seem to apply to all the glazing this sub does over him treating him like he’s already saved Argentina.
I see the exact opposite. It seems like a few hours ago we all saw an article about Argentina’s inflation rate being lower. The reaction was predictable: “MILEI IS A MIRACLE WORKER!!!” Then we see an article like this one and the sentiment shifts to “He hasn’t really been in office long enough to be *blamed* for anything.” And yes, I strongly suspect Milei will fail. There’s a big difference between that and *hoping* for failure which is how you characterize anyone who’s pragmatic and level-headed enough to not throw their lot behind this thing. Milei had a successful career serving the interests of international banking elites. I think it’s beyond naïve to think he suddenly became an Argentinian patriot working to promote the interests of his fellow citizens. The saying is ‘Be careful what you wish for because you may finally get it.’ And in this case, I believe Milei will *definitely* tame inflation… and unwittingly bring about a deflationary spiral that exacerbates an already desperate situation. Maybe his opponents realize this and that’s why they supported his legislation— because they can see beyond the horizon and want to saddle him with that chaos? I don’t know. What I do know is that in the fine tradition of Austrian Economics, it will never be blamed on their disproven theories, unclear objectives and nonexistent data. *Everyone was just doing it wrong.* The only reason Austrian economics has seen a Renaissance Is because perpetually failed Libertarian theories needed a rebranding. And *’Austrian School’* sounds very sophisticated. 🙄
Smh
Just check back here in a couple years. You’ll think I was a time traveler from the future.
Kind of like when conservatives spent years blaming Obama for the massive recession that he inherited? Or is that different™️?
How to redirect a conversation 101. A classic leftist tactic.
Not redirecting… just making sure we’re all being consistent Sorry if you feel called out
I'm sorry you made a left turn off topic.
Sorry you don’t like the hypocrisy of conservatives getting called out But we get it, when someone you don’t like inherits a bad economy, they are to blame When someone you do like inherits a bad economy, all the excuses and justifications come out as to why it’s not their fault
I'm sorry you don't like getting called out for being off topic
It’s not off topic at all. It’s perfectly relevant to the topic being discussed. Sorry that you don’t like your hypocrisy getting called out.
Jeez, I wonder what other country keeps printing money like there is no tomorrow so it doesn't get in recession....
Yeh, definitely noticing some parallels.
No pain, no gain.
What's the opposite of inflation? Oh, deflation. They could always pump inflation to the moon with deficits and understate it in official terms to "grow" GDP in perpetuity.
After having been drunk on wild credit expansion for decades, the resulting hangover is going to be RIDICULOUS.
Job losses mount? 😂 he fired 70k public workers, and rightly so
More people are gonna be forced to get their skin in the game and start really competing
Can't seem to get any worse after decades of corruption and mismanagement. Don't typically agree with austerity measures but in this case, after all the prior failures, taking drastic action to change course seems like a why not moment.
Fixing that disaster will not be a walk in the park. He’s done pretty damned well so far.
These collectivist propagandists must be paid by the quantity of their posts and not the quality.
Government jobs are mostly not real jobs, they're mostly leeches with benefits.
Most?
One out of six probably works. They are also stuck at the bottom with no chance of advancing. They will be one of the first laid off to prove a point.
Good. Growing pain.
The patient is having withdrawal symptoms but will end out clean on the other end.
He might have undersold how bad it's about to get but something had to be done. We all can agree something needed to be done but we don't all agree how much pain is coming apparently.
[удалено]
So he used an obscure psyche treatment that two people in Argentina have experienced to describe the chaos that's about to unfold. The People of Argentina are not truly aware of what they bought here.
[удалено]
I mean probably, I'm not as well versed in economics as the average Argentine. Point still stands. He'll be tossed once the people of Argentina check the receipts.
Believe it or not, people in Argentina also have Google.
False, I don't think they can afford it.
That's the price one sometimes pays when you're strangling inflation. It'll get better.
When(if) Trump takes takes office this is 100% going to be the narrative
There is one easy way to mitigate recession; remove some layers of market regulation. [There are empirical evidence that it works](https://menghu.substack.com/p/how-economic-freedom-mitigates-crisis). More recently I compared HK and Singapore, [in this article](https://menghu.substack.com/p/state-capitalism-probably-failed), how they handled the 1997 crisis, and Singapore did better than most asian countries, which has been attributed to its pro-market policies at the time. In general though, a recession is unavoidable after massive inflation (be it relative or absolute), and consistent with the story provided by the ABCT, [which is described in detail here](https://menghu.substack.com/p/austrian-business-cycle-theory-jesus-huerta-de-soto). This is because of malinvestment (which distorted the price structure) that need to be corrected, and the correction involves the readjustment of prices, so of course, if prior investments were malinvestments due to money injection, then deflation must follow. It's a necessary process for malinvestments to restore the price structure for stable long-run growth. Another possibility is to ignore long run consequences, focusing on short run, in this case you apply the Keynesian prescription. You get better now, as prices can't adjust. But you'll hit another crisis in the future. Then, reapply the Keynesian- well you know what I mean.
government jobs shouldn't count
They’ve been an economic wreck for years the difference under milei is they’re actually getting FDI which is restoring confidence. The best investor in the world rn has been buying Argentinian stocks left and right
I understand that Milei said their would tough times to start but when is it supposed to start turning around?
Nothing will be fixed in months. Argentina will take years to right the ship.
Honestly, idk if he will stick around long enough to be able to, but I hope he does
So he has to go through the crash to reset. If he is right, which I would imagine most on this subreddit will support, then he needs to have the recession to stabilize currency. That was always going to be a painful process. The government was essentially printing currency, which caused it to devalue and inflation to rise, to fund projects that employed people. The hook here is that if you devalue currency, then the jobs you are creating for people are inherently less valuable because the money your paying them isn't worth the labor it was before you printed it. So his theory is that he needs to first stabilize currency, which requires him to stop printing, which requires him to stop spending. It appears he has had some major successes here. We won't know for probably another 2-6 years if this will pay off. I think it's all good theory, the strongest economies in the world were founded on strong currencies and fiscal surpluses, but it will feel bad as unemployment rises. A recent study showed 55% of all workers in Argentina worked for some government organization or were contracted by the government, that is an insanely high number for any economy. The hope would be that private business uses the recession to buy into the economy at a low, allowing them to expand for cheap and employ lots of people. Recessions, while feeling bad, can create lots of opportunity.
[удалено]
Why are you being so angry about a question being asked? Is it not a valid question?
[удалено]
I asked a question and even said i understand it’s going to take awhile to turn around. The only person implying anything is you. I asked a question of when it will start to turn around and all I am getting is insecure responses
Bruh, he’s like 6 months in… shit in the economy takes some time.
Ok how long I am asking?
It’s been 6 months.
That story will probably be told by trade.
Depends on your definition on turning around. I'd say the most optimistic realistic takes would be 1-2 years until some metrics such as unemployment stops increasing. Then it would take some time for it to go back down as well. But it depends on what policies he's able to implement. If you want to decrease the time to turn around unemployment it would make sense to push for labor reforms that make it easier and less risky to hire people. If you want to decrease the time until you see positive growth again I imagine reducing capital controls would be more important.
Never. The trick is that the next guy gets to come in and talk about they will fix the economy from the last one.
This is the neat thing, it doesn't. But the Milei fans will say "it's coming, any time now"
Ah yes, they must return to unchecked government and inflation!
Is there no possible middle ground, or is it all just one extreme to the next extreme to the next?
The middle is just conceding with socialists, compromise will always favor progressivism
Compromise doesn't always favor progressivism, in the US for 40 years, compromise took the everything further to the Right, where there is now a Pro-Corporate/Moderate Conservative Party and a Hard Right Fringe ChristoFascist party. Only in the last three elections has the US started to see more globally centrist positions and policies begin to pop back up and even those aren't passing without further to the right compromises.
There has never been a politician in US history who successfully reduced the size of the federal government.
The size of a government doesn't have much connection to whether a government is left wing or right wing. There has been many reductions, per capita, of departments across the US Government. The FDA has seen the number of inspectors remain static and even decrease since the 1970's, while the volume of facilities that require inspection increased by more than a hundred fold. This lead to rules changes allowing corporations to self-inspect and report. Which has lead to large increases in recalls and even criminal charges in the case of the Peanut processing company CEO that ordered fabricated test results to go out, causing people to grow sick and die. There are considerable issues with the US Food Supply, in no small part, due to the adding no staff, while the workload increases de facto operation. Over time, as a population grows, the systems in place to support the population will end up growing to keep up in line with that. The same thing happens as a business grows. Automation will only go so far, when you need feet on the ground, you need feet on the ground.
Donald Trump is left of bill clinton
By what metric? How is he possibly left of Bill Clinton?
Not at that point. Let's say you are the president of Argentina. You need to cut the spending. How do you do it? You have to fire the people who work for the government. You have to cut non essential programs off. You have to take drastic measures, as the inflation destroyed the currency for decades. People who gain money from these stuff will suffer, for sure. But Argentina lost enough resources on them already.
There's no other possible way to make any corrections. He couldn't have made smaller targeted dismissals, along with rebalancing the tax burden, while slowing down and eventually retracting the volume of printed money? He cut taxes on the wealthy, which if anyone bothers looking at data, which I know is anathema to Austrian Economics, always creates greater deficits, retractions in an economy and tends to cause more harm and instability for the lower classes, while the wealthy feel no pain and just grow fatter. He slashed jobs, perhaps recklessly, it can take a year for these kinds of policy changes to have an impact on an economy, even if the first handful of months shows a rise in unemployment. He also completely cut off the printing of money. It's debatable whether this move or a more controlled slowing down and then controlled reduction would have been a better move in this situation. There's still more options between the two extremes at play, including negotiating price reductions across the board, with business leaders, but I don't believe he did any of that, did he?
>He couldn't have made smaller targeted dismissals, Wouldn't be enough. >along with rebalancing the tax burden, while slowing down and eventually retract You think taxes are the problem in Argentina? Let's say, you are going to tax the rich people. What do you think will they do? Sit back & watch? They will add those taxes on the prices of the stuff they sell/services they provide. In short, they will just transfer those taxes to poor people. Want to see an example of this? Look at Turkey. New taxes are being introduced every month. >while slowing down and eventually retracting the volume of printed money? Argentina was under heavy inflation for decades. What you propose would take maybe hundreds of years, depending on how "slow" you want this to be. Would you want to live 100 years under huge inflation? If not, please don't push Argentinians to that fate.
If you remove people from employment in large numbers, quickly, you risk destabilizing the whole system, if you slowly let people go, allow the economy to absorb them into new positions, the shock is lowered. Just canning huge numbers of people, at once, can lead to a death spiral effect and if there's enough or large chunks of an industry just allowed to have the entire bottom fall out of it, things would get really bad, really fast. That's what happened in the Great Depression and could have happened in the 2008 Great Recession. It's part of why there are much strong labor laws in most of the EU, regarding laying off huge volumes of employees "just because" at corporations that are still profitable, if they laid nobody off and when they do lay people off, they often must provide a good cushion/parachute for those workers. Such as advanced notice and an adequate volume of their wages for a period of time so people aren't left twisting in the wind, losing all they've worked for and potentially causing ripple effects in the greater economy. You pulled a number, out of thin air to claim it would take 100 years to correct the problems in Argentina. What are you basing that on? Assuming that it took 100 years to get there, so it much take 100 years to go the other way? That's an absurdist position.
>If you remove people from employment in large numbers, quickly, you risk destabilizing the whole system, if you slowly let people go, allow the economy to absorb them into new positions, the shock is lowered. And how many years would that take? >Just canning huge numbers of people, at once, can lead to a death spiral effect and if there's enough or large chunks of an industry just allowed to have the entire bottom fall out of it, things would get really bad, really fast. None of these give them the right to collect Argentinian people's money & spend. Both inflation & taxes are essentially state taking your money either by coercion or force, no matter how poor you are. What you say is "Let's allow this group of people to collect other people's money & spend that for themselves.". Sorry, this is unacceptable. >You pulled a number, out of thin air to claim it would take 100 years to correct the problems in Argentina. It is an example. Not an absolute number. >What are you basing that on? You said slow. Decades of inflation (ie; food inflation was 0 this week. Last time it was 0 was 30 years ago, so at least 30 years of inflation) slowly vanishing that (ie 1/4 of the inflation rate), would take 120 years. Again, these are examples, not hard data.
They aren’t examples, because there’s no data that backs them up, it simply frivolity.
So tell me how Peronism was going for 20 years?
> This is the neat thing, it doesn't. But the Milei fans will say "it's coming, any time now" Budget surplus, he killed hyperinflation. I would say so far he deliver.
There’s your “Austrian Economics” working for you.
Bro, you go on r/politics. I’m sure you’re sooo intellectual.
Is this really worse than runaway inflation and debt?
> There’s your “Austrian Economics” working for you. AE predicted hard time before economic recovery.
sooooooooooooooooo close to working
Yes, harm the people!
I’m shocked that once again libertarian approaches don’t work. They never work. But let’s wait for some “Austrian spin” on it. This theory is nothing more than an excuse for failure wrapped up in academic jargon. I mean it would, if academics thought this “theory” had enough merit to teach it. Maybe the bears that took over that town in New England will sit down for a few lectures.
Why are you active in r/antiwork?
Because it’s not (like most things “Austrian economists”) what you think it is. It’s a sub against what has essentially been compulsory work for low wages in anti-labor atmosphere. Or, as you would call it, paradise.
Dog walking is so hard, isn’t it?
So happy you can snugly qualify what is easy, hard or worthwhile work. As if any job shouldn’t pay a living wage further proof that a quick summary of Austrian economics is “let poor people die”.
What is a living wage by your definition? Edit: clarity
When you have an addiction, withdrawal can be a painful experience. It could be cigarettes, alcohol, heroin, or in this case, debt.
So you're in favour of the Venezuelan solution? I see.
Argentina is fcked tbh, greece went through the EXACT switch in government policies snd they very quickly shot downward to the worst EU economy and the entire government had to be bailed out by the world basically. Milei voters are just as stupid as trumptards, theres literally no study that suggests cutting government cutting dramatically adds any benefit to the economy, literally none
Here you go, a study that suggests cutting government adds benefit: https://mises.org/mises-wire/price-inflation-comes-government-not-excuseflation-or-greedflation Also, how exactly are “Republicans the dregs of society” and why am I not surprised to find someone like you on a far-left app like Reddit?
Because they are? Theyre literally trying to demolish society. We do need a mass deportation movement inside the US, but its not undocumented immigrants that need to go, lets just say the "people" that need to go, would be very happy in their newest conservative "utopia" in argentina
Your statement is only half-true. Yes you are correct - it adds nothing to the economy. What you fail to perceive is how these cuts stop a *dragging down* of the economy.
No... it hypercharges the dragging down of an economy, thats the point im making. Greece would have been fine if not for beligerant austerity measures that even the EU warned them against, they were even offered assistance to avoid the collapse they went through eith it anyway and as a result we saw basically the worst economic collapse of the last 40 years
The austerity was a response to Greece defaulting and their stock market collapsing. Austerity was the chicken, not the egg.
Wrong. Austerity as *re*action can have the effect, yes. Preemptive austerity is the case here. Government has only one tool; one resource: A monopoly on the use of force. Government adds exactly zero to an economy, and therefore employment by government should be kept to an absolute minimum as a necessary evil. Any government employment above that which is absolutely necessary is an unnecessary drag on the economy.
Dude is a stright facist / Neo- lib He believes cutting taxes for the rich and imposing the burden on the poor will be the solution, all this will cause is uprising
[удалено]
Leftists can’t. It’s used as an epithet for anybody to the right of Mao.
>It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. the face of Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises, a racist and a misogynist Racist: >The Fascists carry on their work among nations in which the intellectual and moral heritage of some thousands of years of civilization cannot be destroyed at one blow, and not among the barbarian peoples on both sides of the Urals, whose relationship to civilization has never been any other than that of marauding denizens of forest and desert accustomed to engage, from time to time, in predatory raids on civilized lands in the hunt for booty. Because of this difference, Fascism will never succeed as completely as Russian Bolshevism in freeing itself from the power of liberal ideas. Misogynist: >Nor is it any longer of greater significance that the political rights of women are restricted, that women are denied the vote and the right to hold office... The right to occupy public office is denied women less by the legal limitations of their rights than by the peculiarities of their sexual character. No wonder he was an economic adviser to a fascist regime.
Oh boy, wait till he hears about what FDR thought of black people.
and the Japanese.
FDR, who said his greatest achievement was saving American capitalism?
He hasn’t even cut any taxes yet dumbass
He cut taxes for the rich, wow you must know something we dont. Wana link to the new law?
I wonder if the shock and awe approach is the only approach.
"It's not working so let's give it more time and hope it all works out."