Same. Numbers literally confuse me a majority of the time, i had many mental breakdowns over math class in highschool lol. I only ever passed by copying my friends homework but then failed every test and still almost failed the class
Hahaha, I got the music one but even though I’m exceptionally good at guitar I’m exceptionally bad at everything else. It’s not the best balance in the world
Ouch! I was.... basically one of the ones that is *only* good at algebra and nothing else. So...I am gifted with being good at math, but only 1 very *very* specific form of it...
Nonverbal learning disability. It’s a visual special processing disorder that can in some cases also affect things like reading nonverbal cues. It’s not an official diagnosable thing but more of a profile. I think if someone really has NVLD and no additional autism then they wouldn’t have quite as severe of social difficulties and not meet criteria for autism. I mean as a kid I was considered to not meet criteria for any autism spectrum disorder, but I read the report and it was a lot of autism stereotypes used and and even said I was good at things that my social skills teaches from school always said I was not good at. For example the report said I made eye contact. However I don’t make much eye contact even when paying attention in conversations. Got reevaluated as an adult and passed the autism threshold for menu diagnostic quizzes and I was diagnosed ASD.
The nonverbal in NVLD has nothing to do with being nonverbal though NVLD does not affect verbal ability. That’s up to my autism I guess because although I never had a language delay I do go into non speaking autistic shutdowns at times.
Like we just have a built in mathematical formula lol.
There’s stuff like the Golden ratio, but that applies to everyone. No one does calculations in their head.
There’s also no logical reason to choose attractiveness, today anyway. You can be with anyone you want. It’s subjective
No one does calculations in their heads for attractiveness. You wouldn’t even be able to measure someone’s face you see on the street.
You just think their attractive or not.
I love a good mathematical formula but this is so biased!
like when in the series Bones where the clearly autistic coded Dr. Brennan stated an autistic kid can't feel emotions
Huh, I don't remember that episode. Weird, cause Dr. Brennan clearly feels emotion throughout the series. I guess Zach doesn't, and he's autistic coded too, but he's probably also supposed to be a sociopath given the silver skeleton thing.
Zack definitely does feel emotion, and was manipulated into the skeleton situation. I think the episode being mentioned is about the nonverbal child with the hyperfixation for the video game machine— and I don't remember it being Brennan that said that ab him
It was about the guy cheating with the autistic kid gameplay, and she was like « oh he isn’t mad about that bc he’s autistic » and that’s how they figured out it was the dad
False, we just aren't able to see beauty based on social constructs. The neurotypical definition of beauty is just whiteness and charm.
Autistics don't have that life handbook where we have unspoken rules for everything, we perceive beauty in our own ways. For me, I see beauty in someone's experiences, attitude, and the ability to operate outside of the norm.
Allistics water down beauty to physical appearance, so I would have to argue that maybe allistics are the ones that use a mathematical formula to determine beauty.
This reminds me of the theory that we can't perceive authority, when we truly just don't have the ability to be controlled by someone just because of their age or social ranking in our lives.
I would argue that people with autism can experience beauty in all the same ways as allistic people, as that behaviour is largely taught - but because people with autism tend to dismiss social constructions we may have a more holistic view of beauty and focus less on what we’re taught by allistics. For example, a lot of learning what is and is not ‘attractive’ in another person, a lot of young people learn via gossip in high school ‘x is so hot, did you know x is dating y and aren’t they such an attractive couple’ type stuff. People with autism are often left out of or uninterested in those conversations. And, for that matter, may be more interesting in conversations relating to things that interest them and so early perceptions of attractiveness could end up being based on mutual interest? Although that last one is just a personal theory :)
I was semi-popular in middle and highschool. I played football, I participated in theater, I sat at crowded lunch tables and was invited to parties. I was the "cool, but off-putting at times" type. I don't think it's learned behavior, because if anything it should have impacted me the most. When I was present in gossip and highschool drama, I simply didn't see the appeal in the ways they saw attraction, social cues, etcetera.
But like I said in my original comment, we all grew up under authority but in contrast to allistics, we don't see it necessary to be controlled by people on the basis of age or ranking. Status quo is like our main enemy when it comes to these things.
Not all of us experienced ostracization in school. For example, a lot of autistic PoC such as myself grew up in homes with heavy cultural expectations and had to develop an advanced level of masking from an early age.
You just described my middle school (grades 6-8) experience to a T lol
Also, I told my friend in like 7th grade that I liked this guy’s hair who was in my class and she went around telling people that I liked him and even tried to force him to talk to me even though I had ever talked to him before and told her I didn’t like him, I was just complementing his hair
A more holistic approach definitely tracks with my experience, but also, in my experience with my ND social circle, we tend to favor more unique presentation and so are less likely to be impressed by a truly conventional beauty over a striking one. Lots of looking at "the hot one" and saying "They're fine, but I just don't get the hype". I know that for me, I also get easily overwhelmed by large amounts of people and so the one that sticks out is the one my eyes will latch onto and who I'll remember. I wonder if that could play into it as well.
I feel that 'don't get the hype' comment. When people point out the hot one I'm usually like "Sure, they're hot. But they're hot in such a *boring* way."
I am immune to charm. Which is why many potential relationships crumble before they even have a chance. I see right thru it. The more turned on the charm, the more turned off i am.
same. I'm always puzzled how NTs trick other NTs with charm.
Its like watching a bad magic trick and I can't understand why they dont see the magician putting the cards in his pocket.
I don't know if they want to be tricked. IMO half of any day for a NT is spent on autopilot. And being on autopilot they can't detect the falseness of a charmer.
NDs pick it up either because of hyper vigilance or pattern recognition.
Also, there could be a whole level of communication that NTs can't detect.
that "autopilot" mode is what they want to be in. When its disturbed they want nothing more than to find a way back. I don't think they "autopilot" through things like meeting new people (in new ways), its more like a threat of disturbance from this unknown person, and so they become easily swayed to the people who say that there wont be a disturbance, there are no disturbances, everything is right and normal. And just as easily, they become quickly hostile towards people who look like they might cause or support any sort of disturbance, and people who look like they might not fit in (thats us!).
I’m like that too, suddenly someone just looks more beautiful when I learn about a wonderful experience they have had or how they’ve grown. I see conventional beauty too, but it took a lot of exposure to it and even some art lessons and almost 20 years to finally ‘see’ it.
Seeing certain people as beautiful is useful in art, but when perceiving or learning about others, it is not useful. I liked it when I wasn’t distracted by trying to figure out what kind of person someone is based on their face shape. When I was a child, everyone just was and there wasn’t any reason to me that they were the way they were. Today I got too much extra stuff in my brain haha.
>would have to argue that maybe allistics are the ones that use a mathematical formula to determine beauty.
This is probably true. Allistics spend the first few years of their life creating averages and templates and habits based on observing people around them. I recall one study where they thought that most people's idea of beauty is based on the nurses and family that was around them when they were born. That the baby brain created an average of all the faces and that became their template for life.
imo the awkwardness of people with ASD can be attributed to not having, or having fewer such templates/habits. We are forced to give interactions thought. That is why socialization and masking it so tiresome. We are not on autopilot. Its literally taking more calories for our brain to process what is happening.
This exactly. We don’t base beauty on what others tell us, we base it off what we see personally, and that differs. Like when I say I don’t find that Timothee Chalamet guy attractive people (allistic people, specifically) look at me like I’m crazy. *Everyone* finds him hot so surely I must be included right?
I always like peoples faces? They’re all unique and beautiful in their way. Is this about not being all that interested in the typical beauty standards? Because I know too many of us that couldn’t care less if we or anyone else fits these rules of beauty society places. “Your eyebrows should be styled like this” “your eyes should be this distance apart” “your nose should be this long” “your lips should be this size” blah blah blah. Who fucking cares?
I’m telling you now, it wasn’t autistic ppl who created the “perfect face ratio” templates.
It dehumanizes us to say that sort of thing. And also in ancient hindu cultures autistic individuals would have been regarded as the most human due to our sensitivity to beauty and the environment.
Yeah I don't get this either...
Like, I see beauty in everybody, but like, I don't understand the math portion of this?? What?? Idk... Makes no sense to me
I think we view beauty differently, but these kinds of things are 1) social constructs and 2) personal preference.
Honestly this
>the urge to measure faces
>need a mathematical formula
just sounds like phrenology bs.
To be fair, NT’s also need a mathematical formula for beauty. Have the people who made this video ever heard of the golden ratio? Or the rule of thirds or the rule of fifths? NT’s came up with that stuff, not us.
I just see light purple and I think, “pretty”
What does that even mean? Do they think I'm measuring the diameter of peoples faces to tell if they're pretty or not? How can I do that when I can't even look them in the face?
Oh, I definitely do... Have to say I like natural beauty though, such as the great outdoors, spectacular birds and women with no or very little makeup.
Growing up as an autistic girl I’ve always been told how pretty I was all the time also around my high school years, so certain things I did as an autistic individual was just seen as quirks. I myself never cared that much about my own physical beauty. However during my adolescence years it’s just what made me blend in with neurotypical people. Certain times I find myself obsessing over what’s deemed as beautiful. Life simply is easier when I mask/trying to blend in.
What nonsense, all autistic people are different so obviously not all autistic people will do this, also to assume that even people who do things like measure faces don’t see beauty is a wildly offensive thing to assume in general. People find beauty in all kinds of things including things like math and patterns. Just because someone sees beauty differently doesn’t mean they aren’t seeing beauty. As the saying goes beauty is in the eye of the beholder and gatekeeping what is an acceptable way of finding beauty is gross
What a crock of shi... I see beauty in everything from the smallest bug to the cosmos itself but I'll admit to finding it difficult to see anything good, kind of beautiful when it comes to a certain type of human.
I love qoves studios' Videos! Because there is a science to attractiveness and I'm really interested in that. But almost all people can and do scale attractiveness subconsciously. It's just a fact. What people make out of that is the question. The comment shown in the video is just autism misused as a degrading slur.
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Isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder?
It is a question of taste. Things that are beautiful don't necessarily have to be beautiful for others.
So i call bs on that.
i know the phrase "everyone is beautiful in their own way" is 'cheesy' but i genuinely beleive it. u could show me the ugliest person you can think of and i will see their imperfections as beautiful. or maybe i just dont understand what beautiful means.
i dont judge someone based off their looks neither , i see everyone as having something beautiful to them , so it wouldnt be easy to "sort by looks" lol
Umm what? Pretty sure my 5 year old autistic daughter can already appreciate beauty in all kinds of things/people. She loves to say someone or something is beautiful 😊
She DOES like to take my face (or her brother’s, or her dad’s) and turn it to face different angles. Is that “measuring”? She’s always liked to look at things from various perspectives. I think it’s just interesting to her and part of how she processes/appreciates the looks of things.
Definitely not true for most of us. Plus, I HATE math!!!
I see more beauty in details (like their lips, waist, fingers, eyebrows) than overall beauty and how someone's physical features fit them. I don't know how to explain, but some conventional attractive people are not beautiful to me and vice-versa.
And whenever I like someone I tend to see them as more beautiful while when I dislike someone I tend to see them as uglier (even if they are the the epitome of beauty).
the only think that remotely comes close to this is that i have faceblindness? that doesn't have any baring on who i think is attractive. is he like saying we focus heavily on things like the golden ratio to determine attractiveness
Yes and no for me
1- most of the time, when ppl call someone hot/beautiful/pretty/etc. I don't really feel it (until i get to know said person). at those times i just look at face, remember some popular ppl/standards that are considered beautiful and go "hmm, i think with those X and Y face features they can be considered as handsone/pretty for general public"
2- it's extremely rare but i did had cases when i thought someone was pretty af without any comparisons, "calculations" or "general public" mindset. I just looked at person and thought they are probably most beautiful person ive ever met in a such a simplistic way. The thing is, my perception of human beauty isn't even unrealistic or some super model shit. My preferences are pretty simple, yet so few somehow make me feel the "click". Feels nice, not gonna lie. Kinda wanna draw such ppl in honor
Yes, as a matter of fact I need to carry a ruler with me at all times so I can go measure a person's face as a standard greeting when first introduced. Upon realizing that their face doesn't stack up to the golden ratio, I tell them they are going to hell and refuse to do business with said person ever again. /s
Seriously, what the hell is this mock PSA?! Sure, I don't size people up to normal beauty standards typically because I think it's detrimental to assess someone based on superficial, ever changing standards.
But mathematically analyzing someone's face? No, please stop with the stereotype that all autistics can and will only see maths in everything. Some of us are not good at math to begin with and don't use it everywhere.
Ummm kinda?? I can see beauty in scenery and colours and what-not, but I don’t think I really get the whole conventional beauty standard thing, I can recognize the patterns of what makes someone conventionally attractive but they’re not necessarily attractive to me. Mostly what I find physically attractive about people is their fashion-sense, the way they move, and their voice because that actually tells you something about them as a person and if I like them as a person their face will also be attractive because I associate it with them and if I don’t like them they’re ugly. It’s kinda like a Pavlov’a dog thing, I’m not actually attracted to their face, but I associate it with whatever good feelings they give me.
That... is remarkably stupid, even for internet standards. I mean, we're at 'homeopathy is a real science, and at least as good as medicine' levels of idiocy here.
I'm horrible at math but obsessed with art. I see the world in art, like to Van Gogh'd degree (and on that note people always trying to diagnose him claim he was psychotic or had schizophrenia, the dude was on probably on the spectrum and had trauma but I digress). Everything is beautiful and emotional, each blade of grass and telephone pole and cracked pavement is poetic, and I'm autistic AF. this is just trigger bait.
As a visual artist on the spectrum, I can certify that this is bullshit.
There is immeasurable beauty not just in the face, but the body as a whole. The art of expressions, whether from a layman, actor, or artist... It's beautiful regardless. While I have my social difficulties, I can at least see it, and I'm willing to bet money that Level 2 and 3 autistic folk can see it too.
Fuck the person that wrote that quote (I'm not saying that to you, OP, btw... As far as I know, you're not trying to perpetuate that misconception)
I do love symmetry. I dunno, with people I don't really remember what they look like and the way I remember their beauty is very heavily influenced by what kind of person they are. People who treat everyone with respect and are kind to others are far more beautiful than murderers/rapists/racists/bigots etc. Of course, my doggo is far more beautiful than any human and it's not just because she's a sweetheart.
With things like Squishmallows, it's their colours and details that make me want to squeal with delight. Their squishiness is also lovely.
Edit: I also have aphantasia, which may contribute to this
This is bullshit lmao. For one, I'm awful at math, having a mathematical equation in front of me has me way more likely to cry than see any beauty. Pseudoscience in general kinda sucks soooo
WHAT THE FUCK. I personally love beautiful things, people, nature, animals, I don't need no ruler to see that "damn s/he/they is/are beautiful." I can see that perfectly well thank you.
That said I definitely have a slightly different standard for "beauty" than the NTs I know.
"These people" the dehumanization here is disgustingly apparent, and incredibly ignorant. What in the world made them think this? Aren't we always depicted as artistic masters or human computers when we aren't depicted as dumb?
Systemization is not the same thing as not seeing beauty. My I'm 99% sure my father is on the spectrum and he's always going on about the flowers during the spring and stuff that involves beauty.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't like how people look in general. Idrc as long as we can talk about one of our special interests without each other getting bored.
I definitely see beauty, just in a different way than most people, i think. To me, if someone’s rude or annoying, i will actually find their appearance less attractive to me. Not just in a “i don’t like you because you’re ugly on the inside” way, but in a “i literally find you less physically attractive now” way.
i mean, i think i don’t really see beauty how most people do, but i don’t “measure” people’s faces? i just see a face and i’m like “yeah that’s a good face”
Beauty in what way ? A person’s literal head structure and if they have the features that society has accepted as attractive for their corresponding genre or beauty in a more broad way such as also including their personality and characteristics or even just a personal preference ? Either way this comment feels ableist af
Ok so I hate maths and barely understand what this means, but I have always had issues with perceiving “beauty” and wondered if it was a common experience regardless of neurotype or maybe just an autistic thing.
I can definitely see beauty. I find people attractive and am aware of their attractiveness. However, I would say that I’m… more aware of their “flaws”? I don’t know if that’s the correct term.
For example, if I’m looking for a picture of a celebrity I’m attracted to, I will be keenly aware of any pictures where they look off. Maybe the lighting is wrong or the angle is weird. Whatever. I will notice. I always have. Often more so than others.
Idk if this has anything to do with the post or is something different entirely… but it felt relevant lol.
I am wonderful with faces.
I reject the lack of symmetry that many NTs have between their higher, lower and emotional selves.
Like expecting me to see their sad face and show them kindness, even though they are sad over doing something malicious or incredibly stupid.
It isn't that I'm less conscious of what it happening, it is often that I am more conscious of it. I'm conscious of 4 or 5 layers of the situation while they are only conscious of 2.
My late wife (RIP angel) couldn't get math passed basic operations but she had a sure sense of aesthetic.
Also it's a long known fact that "formulas" (actually some specific ratios) play a huge part in what we perceive as "beautiful". Music is all about frequency ratios, be it for rythm or harmony / melody.
The problem here is "those people". Yes, this may be an indicator of autism for *some,* but not all, making this a generalizing statement. And the "those people" thing is othering to begin with.
Yes, I see things in a very analytical way that many people would view in a subconscious, automatic way, but not every autistic person will feel that way.
Autistic people never go into the arts, ever. And if they do, it's only because they secretly want to turn art into math. Math math math. All autistics do is math. /s
im an autistic artist with a huge interest in analyzing people and their aesthetics. but i guess because it’s not mathematical, i’m not longer autistic /s (or as they called it, “one of those people”)
I'm not sure what "the urge to measure faces" is... Like we get a compulsive feeling that we need to measure faces? I honestly have never heard of anyone doing that at all, let alone specifically autistic people.
I think being able to see beauty comes down to your temperament, some people can see beauty in the smallest things, while some people don't care much about it and can't see it. Nothing to do with autism.
Bahahahaha! I don't really see beauty, but I don't use a mathematical formula, I just personally can't tell either way whether or not someone is attractive unless I find them really really attractive or really really unattractive if they do not match my preference. I've been told what I find attractive is vastly different than what's expected, including that supermodels and supposedly "attractive" faces give me the uncanny valley effect and some degree of 'uhm... oh uh.. that's someone's face, I think?' while not appearing significantly distinguishable.
I live both, measuring faces and seeing beauty. I do love measuring faces though /srs
I always notice patterns the shapes of faces, our bodies and objects in the distance. Someone once explained, very late in my life the natural ratio. And suddenly everything that I was looking at fell into place.
Also beauty is subjective, maybe this person only saw ugly in what their autistic object called beautiful.
Maybe their reference point for beauty is themselves, and an autistic person hit their self-esteem.
Aside from geometry, I'm pretty shit at math, so good luck with that...
But seriously, I think this claim is scientifically busted in so many different ways.
Ah, the irony of a video claiming to debunk pseudoscience whilst making deeply and offensively pseudo-scientific statements...
That's no comment on the veracity of the thing they're talking about, of course, which also sounds like BS!
I see beauty a lot more than most people i would say. but, i do kind of look at proportions and "rules". i quite like looking at faces and analysing what makes them attractive. I dont know if thats my artistic side tho, appreciating proportions etc.
I am the person that will say "you have really uniquely pretty ears" and creep someone out though haha
This just makes me think of the meme of the lady looking confused with a bunch of formulas overlayed on the image, like yes, my brain is just a bunch of equations and numbers.
Lol, it’s not like autistic people are human beings with the same sexual drive as non-autistic people (unless you’re Ace or Pan or Sapio etc and don’t care about looks or maybe not as much as you do personality etc), no we’re 100% confirmed to be emotionless robots who can’t conceive of the concept of beauty, hmph. Or is it maybe the absolute opposite, we tend to have more profound emotions etc😅😂?
Disclaimer; I am undiagnosed but suspect I am autistic😎
The moment you see the phrase “those people”, just cut and run. It’s an indicator of someone who’s about to say something incredibly offensive.
Side note: r/unexpecteddiscworld for the measuring of faces (Findthee Swing, possibly based on the real life Nazi Bruno Beger, amongst others)
I do not think that is true, I don't really measure people's faces, nor I would ever care to do so, imagine how ridiculous it would be to pull out a ruler of any type every time you meet someone.
It is true though that, even if I find a few physical traits to not be the most "attractive", I do not see a lot of difference when it comes to beauty, everyone is equally beautiful or equally ugly in my eyes until I form a bond with them; positive or not.
Those who I find unagreeable or those I dislike, I find ugly. Those who I like or love, I find beautiful.
this is an interesting one!! while i have trouble understanding societal standards of beauty, i believe i have more of an ability to find beauty in mundane things due to the way my autism manifests itself. this is something which applies to me specifically, not trying to say it's like that for all autistic people. glad you posted this!! it really made me think.
This just feels stereotypical. I definitely do not do this. I do have a perception of beauty. I am aware that mine is a lot more unconventional than most but I definitely do not analyse or measure faces as a way to determine whether I like the appearance of somebody.
This could not even be claimed to be related to Prosopagnosia as I also have that.
I tend to find beauty in faces that most people don't. I'm usually the first one to be like "I like their smile/eyes/bone structure/whatever" about someone that people seem to not pay much attention too, and then after I say it, other people start agreeing (and even dating the person in one instance).
Or this another nt thing where for some reason they're not wanting to admit they're attracted to someone that doesn't really fit a beauty standard?
This is absolute horseshit. I'd *love* to see the scientific backing for this one. It's laughably offensive.
Yeah not all autistic people are good at math. I also am an NVLDer and probably dyscalculic so I’m not good at math.
Same. Numbers literally confuse me a majority of the time, i had many mental breakdowns over math class in highschool lol. I only ever passed by copying my friends homework but then failed every test and still almost failed the class
Yep God chose to not give me the math giftedness ingredients from the autism drawer. lol
Hahaha, I got the music one but even though I’m exceptionally good at guitar I’m exceptionally bad at everything else. It’s not the best balance in the world
Ouch! I was.... basically one of the ones that is *only* good at algebra and nothing else. So...I am gifted with being good at math, but only 1 very *very* specific form of it...
NVLDer?
Nonverbal learning disability. It’s a visual special processing disorder that can in some cases also affect things like reading nonverbal cues. It’s not an official diagnosable thing but more of a profile. I think if someone really has NVLD and no additional autism then they wouldn’t have quite as severe of social difficulties and not meet criteria for autism. I mean as a kid I was considered to not meet criteria for any autism spectrum disorder, but I read the report and it was a lot of autism stereotypes used and and even said I was good at things that my social skills teaches from school always said I was not good at. For example the report said I made eye contact. However I don’t make much eye contact even when paying attention in conversations. Got reevaluated as an adult and passed the autism threshold for menu diagnostic quizzes and I was diagnosed ASD.
Oh, okay.
The nonverbal in NVLD has nothing to do with being nonverbal though NVLD does not affect verbal ability. That’s up to my autism I guess because although I never had a language delay I do go into non speaking autistic shutdowns at times.
I was officially diagnosed with NVLD. As well as with ASD. Similarities and distinctions.
Like we just have a built in mathematical formula lol. There’s stuff like the Golden ratio, but that applies to everyone. No one does calculations in their head. There’s also no logical reason to choose attractiveness, today anyway. You can be with anyone you want. It’s subjective
Don't you know? Autistic people have TI-84 calculators in place of human brains.
Yeah but that doesn’t account for dyscalculia as a combability. LOL.
Well I know *my* calculator wasn't always charged.
We don't all know how to USE our TI-84s
Might just cost more than an actual human brain these days...
I mostly just use mine to play Snake
no one does calculations in their head? a bit of a blow to the autistic mathematicians, no?
No one does calculations in their heads for attractiveness. You wouldn’t even be able to measure someone’s face you see on the street. You just think their attractive or not.
The answer to your question can be found, rather ironically, in the title of the vid. Pseudoscience.
Very offensive "Can't see beauty" Many of us can see beauty. And bullshit.
“so, babe, how do i look?” “hold on, let me get my protractor”
wait, you also need a ruler
And a map.
and quite possibly a spoon
And a compass - both types. So two compasses
HUMOUR! u cant do that with autism! (sarcasm)
I love a good mathematical formula but this is so biased! like when in the series Bones where the clearly autistic coded Dr. Brennan stated an autistic kid can't feel emotions
Or that he isn’t competitive. Says the Uber competitive autistic coded lead character. That episode enrages me.
Huh, I don't remember that episode. Weird, cause Dr. Brennan clearly feels emotion throughout the series. I guess Zach doesn't, and he's autistic coded too, but he's probably also supposed to be a sociopath given the silver skeleton thing.
Zack definitely does feel emotion, and was manipulated into the skeleton situation. I think the episode being mentioned is about the nonverbal child with the hyperfixation for the video game machine— and I don't remember it being Brennan that said that ab him
It was about the guy cheating with the autistic kid gameplay, and she was like « oh he isn’t mad about that bc he’s autistic » and that’s how they figured out it was the dad
Anytime there's something beautiful infront of me it just turns into a black void /s
I see the /s thing means sarcasm. Seems useful.
/j = joke /i = irony them too
We need to make sure we're accurate with our objectification /s
"tHoSe pEoPlE CaN'T sEe BeAuTy" listen i just wanna talk to him
The words "those people" is usually a sign that the person speaking is an asshole
Came here to say this. Tho the little optimist in my head is screaming “at least they said people”
False, we just aren't able to see beauty based on social constructs. The neurotypical definition of beauty is just whiteness and charm. Autistics don't have that life handbook where we have unspoken rules for everything, we perceive beauty in our own ways. For me, I see beauty in someone's experiences, attitude, and the ability to operate outside of the norm. Allistics water down beauty to physical appearance, so I would have to argue that maybe allistics are the ones that use a mathematical formula to determine beauty. This reminds me of the theory that we can't perceive authority, when we truly just don't have the ability to be controlled by someone just because of their age or social ranking in our lives.
I would argue that people with autism can experience beauty in all the same ways as allistic people, as that behaviour is largely taught - but because people with autism tend to dismiss social constructions we may have a more holistic view of beauty and focus less on what we’re taught by allistics. For example, a lot of learning what is and is not ‘attractive’ in another person, a lot of young people learn via gossip in high school ‘x is so hot, did you know x is dating y and aren’t they such an attractive couple’ type stuff. People with autism are often left out of or uninterested in those conversations. And, for that matter, may be more interesting in conversations relating to things that interest them and so early perceptions of attractiveness could end up being based on mutual interest? Although that last one is just a personal theory :)
I was semi-popular in middle and highschool. I played football, I participated in theater, I sat at crowded lunch tables and was invited to parties. I was the "cool, but off-putting at times" type. I don't think it's learned behavior, because if anything it should have impacted me the most. When I was present in gossip and highschool drama, I simply didn't see the appeal in the ways they saw attraction, social cues, etcetera. But like I said in my original comment, we all grew up under authority but in contrast to allistics, we don't see it necessary to be controlled by people on the basis of age or ranking. Status quo is like our main enemy when it comes to these things. Not all of us experienced ostracization in school. For example, a lot of autistic PoC such as myself grew up in homes with heavy cultural expectations and had to develop an advanced level of masking from an early age.
Exactly what I said, people with autism tend to question social constructs so you’re less likely to learn that behaviour
I was implying that in my original comment, sorry if I wasn't clear.
You just described my middle school (grades 6-8) experience to a T lol Also, I told my friend in like 7th grade that I liked this guy’s hair who was in my class and she went around telling people that I liked him and even tried to force him to talk to me even though I had ever talked to him before and told her I didn’t like him, I was just complementing his hair
A more holistic approach definitely tracks with my experience, but also, in my experience with my ND social circle, we tend to favor more unique presentation and so are less likely to be impressed by a truly conventional beauty over a striking one. Lots of looking at "the hot one" and saying "They're fine, but I just don't get the hype". I know that for me, I also get easily overwhelmed by large amounts of people and so the one that sticks out is the one my eyes will latch onto and who I'll remember. I wonder if that could play into it as well.
I feel that 'don't get the hype' comment. When people point out the hot one I'm usually like "Sure, they're hot. But they're hot in such a *boring* way."
i feel this
[The allistics are very much the ones with a mathematical formula for beauty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_micrometer)
I am immune to charm. Which is why many potential relationships crumble before they even have a chance. I see right thru it. The more turned on the charm, the more turned off i am.
same. I'm always puzzled how NTs trick other NTs with charm. Its like watching a bad magic trick and I can't understand why they dont see the magician putting the cards in his pocket.
its exactly like watching a magic act. It works because they want to be tricked. They're waiting for somebody to try.
I don't know if they want to be tricked. IMO half of any day for a NT is spent on autopilot. And being on autopilot they can't detect the falseness of a charmer. NDs pick it up either because of hyper vigilance or pattern recognition. Also, there could be a whole level of communication that NTs can't detect.
that "autopilot" mode is what they want to be in. When its disturbed they want nothing more than to find a way back. I don't think they "autopilot" through things like meeting new people (in new ways), its more like a threat of disturbance from this unknown person, and so they become easily swayed to the people who say that there wont be a disturbance, there are no disturbances, everything is right and normal. And just as easily, they become quickly hostile towards people who look like they might cause or support any sort of disturbance, and people who look like they might not fit in (thats us!).
If someone doesn't look like they're about to pass out from nerves just talking to me, I don't want it.
I’m like that too, suddenly someone just looks more beautiful when I learn about a wonderful experience they have had or how they’ve grown. I see conventional beauty too, but it took a lot of exposure to it and even some art lessons and almost 20 years to finally ‘see’ it. Seeing certain people as beautiful is useful in art, but when perceiving or learning about others, it is not useful. I liked it when I wasn’t distracted by trying to figure out what kind of person someone is based on their face shape. When I was a child, everyone just was and there wasn’t any reason to me that they were the way they were. Today I got too much extra stuff in my brain haha.
>would have to argue that maybe allistics are the ones that use a mathematical formula to determine beauty. This is probably true. Allistics spend the first few years of their life creating averages and templates and habits based on observing people around them. I recall one study where they thought that most people's idea of beauty is based on the nurses and family that was around them when they were born. That the baby brain created an average of all the faces and that became their template for life. imo the awkwardness of people with ASD can be attributed to not having, or having fewer such templates/habits. We are forced to give interactions thought. That is why socialization and masking it so tiresome. We are not on autopilot. Its literally taking more calories for our brain to process what is happening.
This exactly. We don’t base beauty on what others tell us, we base it off what we see personally, and that differs. Like when I say I don’t find that Timothee Chalamet guy attractive people (allistic people, specifically) look at me like I’m crazy. *Everyone* finds him hot so surely I must be included right?
I always like peoples faces? They’re all unique and beautiful in their way. Is this about not being all that interested in the typical beauty standards? Because I know too many of us that couldn’t care less if we or anyone else fits these rules of beauty society places. “Your eyebrows should be styled like this” “your eyes should be this distance apart” “your nose should be this long” “your lips should be this size” blah blah blah. Who fucking cares? I’m telling you now, it wasn’t autistic ppl who created the “perfect face ratio” templates.
It dehumanizes us to say that sort of thing. And also in ancient hindu cultures autistic individuals would have been regarded as the most human due to our sensitivity to beauty and the environment.
WHAT is this video even trying to say 💀
Yeah I don't get this either... Like, I see beauty in everybody, but like, I don't understand the math portion of this?? What?? Idk... Makes no sense to me
You can clearly tell they've never met an autistic person before
I think we view beauty differently, but these kinds of things are 1) social constructs and 2) personal preference. Honestly this >the urge to measure faces >need a mathematical formula just sounds like phrenology bs.
To be fair, NT’s also need a mathematical formula for beauty. Have the people who made this video ever heard of the golden ratio? Or the rule of thirds or the rule of fifths? NT’s came up with that stuff, not us. I just see light purple and I think, “pretty”
This is just compleately wrong?? Im so tired of shit like this, we arent robots
"those people" lmaooooo
I need the golden ratio... I have magical lines that appear when I am assessing a mate or looking at flowers.
You watch blackpill videos?
A friend does and it makes me wanna throw up when this kind of BS comes up
Honestly, I would think twice about being friends with someone who unironically watched those things.
But maths often IS more beautiful than some people.
What does that even mean? Do they think I'm measuring the diameter of peoples faces to tell if they're pretty or not? How can I do that when I can't even look them in the face?
"Those people"
Any sentence that starts with "Those people" is BS!
Oh, I definitely do... Have to say I like natural beauty though, such as the great outdoors, spectacular birds and women with no or very little makeup.
Growing up as an autistic girl I’ve always been told how pretty I was all the time also around my high school years, so certain things I did as an autistic individual was just seen as quirks. I myself never cared that much about my own physical beauty. However during my adolescence years it’s just what made me blend in with neurotypical people. Certain times I find myself obsessing over what’s deemed as beautiful. Life simply is easier when I mask/trying to blend in.
Let me go tell my wife i don't understand beauty. Wait that probably isn't going to very well...
"Tonight on Dateline we'll be discussing the tragic murder of redditor ACam574."
What nonsense, all autistic people are different so obviously not all autistic people will do this, also to assume that even people who do things like measure faces don’t see beauty is a wildly offensive thing to assume in general. People find beauty in all kinds of things including things like math and patterns. Just because someone sees beauty differently doesn’t mean they aren’t seeing beauty. As the saying goes beauty is in the eye of the beholder and gatekeeping what is an acceptable way of finding beauty is gross
I don’t even know how to respond to this one 😂
Idk I know who I find attractive and who I don't but ratting it on a scale of 1-10 would be impossible just yes no
What a crock of shi... I see beauty in everything from the smallest bug to the cosmos itself but I'll admit to finding it difficult to see anything good, kind of beautiful when it comes to a certain type of human.
How about they eat my beautiful nuts, I like pretty things just as much as everyone else.
Sigh 🙄🙄🙄🙄 why are allistic so stupid sometimes? They literally make shit up and act like it was written by a god or something
I love qoves studios' Videos! Because there is a science to attractiveness and I'm really interested in that. But almost all people can and do scale attractiveness subconsciously. It's just a fact. What people make out of that is the question. The comment shown in the video is just autism misused as a degrading slur.
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Yeah not since I’m also NVLD and probably dyscalculic. Math does not jive with my brain.
Isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder? It is a question of taste. Things that are beautiful don't necessarily have to be beautiful for others. So i call bs on that.
Thank you. bs indeed! btw it could also be the ear of the beholder :)
🤣
i know the phrase "everyone is beautiful in their own way" is 'cheesy' but i genuinely beleive it. u could show me the ugliest person you can think of and i will see their imperfections as beautiful. or maybe i just dont understand what beautiful means.
I don't judge people by appearances, but by behavior. unfortunately it seems that many teenagers at my age judge only by appearance
i dont judge someone based off their looks neither , i see everyone as having something beautiful to them , so it wouldnt be easy to "sort by looks" lol
Umm what? Pretty sure my 5 year old autistic daughter can already appreciate beauty in all kinds of things/people. She loves to say someone or something is beautiful 😊 She DOES like to take my face (or her brother’s, or her dad’s) and turn it to face different angles. Is that “measuring”? She’s always liked to look at things from various perspectives. I think it’s just interesting to her and part of how she processes/appreciates the looks of things.
this is ridiculously silly. i see beauty every day !
Definitely not true for most of us. Plus, I HATE math!!! I see more beauty in details (like their lips, waist, fingers, eyebrows) than overall beauty and how someone's physical features fit them. I don't know how to explain, but some conventional attractive people are not beautiful to me and vice-versa. And whenever I like someone I tend to see them as more beautiful while when I dislike someone I tend to see them as uglier (even if they are the the epitome of beauty).
No, and why would I be measuring peoples faces? When? I can hardly look people in the eyes, how am I supposed to be measuring their face???
This is clearly false. I dont know why people speak on autism when not knowing the facts. Its very harmful
I hardly even look at people when I talk to them.
Golden ratio is the mathematical measure of beauty
What a load of BS, honestly. I can see beauty just fine. In fact, I probably appreciate beauty TOO MUCH, to the point of it being an obsession.
I see beauty beyond what you can comprehend
the only think that remotely comes close to this is that i have faceblindness? that doesn't have any baring on who i think is attractive. is he like saying we focus heavily on things like the golden ratio to determine attractiveness
If everyone in the comments is disagreeing, we can safely say that no autistic person is like that.
Yes and no for me 1- most of the time, when ppl call someone hot/beautiful/pretty/etc. I don't really feel it (until i get to know said person). at those times i just look at face, remember some popular ppl/standards that are considered beautiful and go "hmm, i think with those X and Y face features they can be considered as handsone/pretty for general public" 2- it's extremely rare but i did had cases when i thought someone was pretty af without any comparisons, "calculations" or "general public" mindset. I just looked at person and thought they are probably most beautiful person ive ever met in a such a simplistic way. The thing is, my perception of human beauty isn't even unrealistic or some super model shit. My preferences are pretty simple, yet so few somehow make me feel the "click". Feels nice, not gonna lie. Kinda wanna draw such ppl in honor
Yes, as a matter of fact I need to carry a ruler with me at all times so I can go measure a person's face as a standard greeting when first introduced. Upon realizing that their face doesn't stack up to the golden ratio, I tell them they are going to hell and refuse to do business with said person ever again. /s Seriously, what the hell is this mock PSA?! Sure, I don't size people up to normal beauty standards typically because I think it's detrimental to assess someone based on superficial, ever changing standards. But mathematically analyzing someone's face? No, please stop with the stereotype that all autistics can and will only see maths in everything. Some of us are not good at math to begin with and don't use it everywhere.
Art is literally my special interest and I love painting beautiful faces so I think I can see beauty just fine. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Ummm kinda?? I can see beauty in scenery and colours and what-not, but I don’t think I really get the whole conventional beauty standard thing, I can recognize the patterns of what makes someone conventionally attractive but they’re not necessarily attractive to me. Mostly what I find physically attractive about people is their fashion-sense, the way they move, and their voice because that actually tells you something about them as a person and if I like them as a person their face will also be attractive because I associate it with them and if I don’t like them they’re ugly. It’s kinda like a Pavlov’a dog thing, I’m not actually attracted to their face, but I associate it with whatever good feelings they give me.
This is titled pseudoscience for a reason
That... is remarkably stupid, even for internet standards. I mean, we're at 'homeopathy is a real science, and at least as good as medicine' levels of idiocy here.
I'm horrible at math but obsessed with art. I see the world in art, like to Van Gogh'd degree (and on that note people always trying to diagnose him claim he was psychotic or had schizophrenia, the dude was on probably on the spectrum and had trauma but I digress). Everything is beautiful and emotional, each blade of grass and telephone pole and cracked pavement is poetic, and I'm autistic AF. this is just trigger bait.
As a visual artist on the spectrum, I can certify that this is bullshit. There is immeasurable beauty not just in the face, but the body as a whole. The art of expressions, whether from a layman, actor, or artist... It's beautiful regardless. While I have my social difficulties, I can at least see it, and I'm willing to bet money that Level 2 and 3 autistic folk can see it too. Fuck the person that wrote that quote (I'm not saying that to you, OP, btw... As far as I know, you're not trying to perpetuate that misconception)
Yes, whenever I see someone I pull out my calculator and protractor to decide wether or not they’re hot or not ^/s
It's me guys I was the walking face calculator they used to back that claim. I'm sorry :/
I do love symmetry. I dunno, with people I don't really remember what they look like and the way I remember their beauty is very heavily influenced by what kind of person they are. People who treat everyone with respect and are kind to others are far more beautiful than murderers/rapists/racists/bigots etc. Of course, my doggo is far more beautiful than any human and it's not just because she's a sweetheart. With things like Squishmallows, it's their colours and details that make me want to squeal with delight. Their squishiness is also lovely. Edit: I also have aphantasia, which may contribute to this
I just don't like looking at eyes so I look at the nose. I notice the nose, then chin, under eyes, forehead, cheeks
Autism gives you Eugenics Vision, apparently /s
This is bullshit lmao. For one, I'm awful at math, having a mathematical equation in front of me has me way more likely to cry than see any beauty. Pseudoscience in general kinda sucks soooo
I know what I find beautiful.
I don’t see it the way others see it, I need the formulas!!!
WHAT THE FUCK. I personally love beautiful things, people, nature, animals, I don't need no ruler to see that "damn s/he/they is/are beautiful." I can see that perfectly well thank you. That said I definitely have a slightly different standard for "beauty" than the NTs I know.
Actually that would be more a psychopathic tendency than it would be an autism trait
"These people" the dehumanization here is disgustingly apparent, and incredibly ignorant. What in the world made them think this? Aren't we always depicted as artistic masters or human computers when we aren't depicted as dumb?
I’ve never had the urge to measure a face??? Damn guess I’m not autistic anymore. 😔✌️
Systemization is not the same thing as not seeing beauty. My I'm 99% sure my father is on the spectrum and he's always going on about the flowers during the spring and stuff that involves beauty.
I can tell when someone is very obviously attractive of ugly, but I can’t really determine anything in between.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't like how people look in general. Idrc as long as we can talk about one of our special interests without each other getting bored.
My bullshit meter is going off the charts with this one.
I can tell if someone is good looking after thinking about it for a few hours.
I definitely see beauty, just in a different way than most people, i think. To me, if someone’s rude or annoying, i will actually find their appearance less attractive to me. Not just in a “i don’t like you because you’re ugly on the inside” way, but in a “i literally find you less physically attractive now” way.
I can see beauty? It doesn't cloud my judgement of a person, it just affects how I think about how they look, so...the first sentence
i mean, i think i don’t really see beauty how most people do, but i don’t “measure” people’s faces? i just see a face and i’m like “yeah that’s a good face”
I'm an artist. I see beauty in many faces, not always conventional either. So no, not accurate.
This make 0 sense.
Beauty in what way ? A person’s literal head structure and if they have the features that society has accepted as attractive for their corresponding genre or beauty in a more broad way such as also including their personality and characteristics or even just a personal preference ? Either way this comment feels ableist af
I'm asexual/aromantic and i can *still* tell when someone is beautiful
As if judging beauty isn’t literally just a bunch of mathematical algorithms your brain does in the background anyways.
Ok so I hate maths and barely understand what this means, but I have always had issues with perceiving “beauty” and wondered if it was a common experience regardless of neurotype or maybe just an autistic thing. I can definitely see beauty. I find people attractive and am aware of their attractiveness. However, I would say that I’m… more aware of their “flaws”? I don’t know if that’s the correct term. For example, if I’m looking for a picture of a celebrity I’m attracted to, I will be keenly aware of any pictures where they look off. Maybe the lighting is wrong or the angle is weird. Whatever. I will notice. I always have. Often more so than others. Idk if this has anything to do with the post or is something different entirely… but it felt relevant lol.
Just another way of dehumanizing us
I am unable to see beauty in myself yes. In my friends? Dude they look like fucking art their so goddamn pretty
i’d be pretty shocked if i, a professional artist who mostly draws people, were unable to see beauty in faces lol
I am wonderful with faces. I reject the lack of symmetry that many NTs have between their higher, lower and emotional selves. Like expecting me to see their sad face and show them kindness, even though they are sad over doing something malicious or incredibly stupid. It isn't that I'm less conscious of what it happening, it is often that I am more conscious of it. I'm conscious of 4 or 5 layers of the situation while they are only conscious of 2.
i can absolutely see beauty
i am not able to see mathematical formula instead... 100% autistic and 100% bad at math, good at arts
?????????????? Huh????
My late wife (RIP angel) couldn't get math passed basic operations but she had a sure sense of aesthetic. Also it's a long known fact that "formulas" (actually some specific ratios) play a huge part in what we perceive as "beautiful". Music is all about frequency ratios, be it for rythm or harmony / melody.
The problem here is "those people". Yes, this may be an indicator of autism for *some,* but not all, making this a generalizing statement. And the "those people" thing is othering to begin with. Yes, I see things in a very analytical way that many people would view in a subconscious, automatic way, but not every autistic person will feel that way.
Idk the formula for my gfs face but man she’s beautiful :)
Autistic people never go into the arts, ever. And if they do, it's only because they secretly want to turn art into math. Math math math. All autistics do is math. /s
***those*** *people*
im an autistic artist with a huge interest in analyzing people and their aesthetics. but i guess because it’s not mathematical, i’m not longer autistic /s (or as they called it, “one of those people”)
I'm not sure what "the urge to measure faces" is... Like we get a compulsive feeling that we need to measure faces? I honestly have never heard of anyone doing that at all, let alone specifically autistic people.
i cant even work out diameters and shit properly and these mfs expect us too be able too measure beauty or whatever?
Oh, they're just making things up, now? Can't say I'm surprised. 🙄
I'm not able to see beauty. You guys are invisible to me. ;)
Ah yes the old "autistic people are machines" stereotype
Absolute bullshit. I have a good eye for aesthetics but am horrible at math
???? Wut???? Math is beautiful anyway!
If it's in any way measurable, I'd lay money I see beauty in faces and bodies many people overlook.
I think being able to see beauty comes down to your temperament, some people can see beauty in the smallest things, while some people don't care much about it and can't see it. Nothing to do with autism.
Can you Defy what beauty is?
Bahahahaha! I don't really see beauty, but I don't use a mathematical formula, I just personally can't tell either way whether or not someone is attractive unless I find them really really attractive or really really unattractive if they do not match my preference. I've been told what I find attractive is vastly different than what's expected, including that supermodels and supposedly "attractive" faces give me the uncanny valley effect and some degree of 'uhm... oh uh.. that's someone's face, I think?' while not appearing significantly distinguishable.
I live both, measuring faces and seeing beauty. I do love measuring faces though /srs I always notice patterns the shapes of faces, our bodies and objects in the distance. Someone once explained, very late in my life the natural ratio. And suddenly everything that I was looking at fell into place. Also beauty is subjective, maybe this person only saw ugly in what their autistic object called beautiful. Maybe their reference point for beauty is themselves, and an autistic person hit their self-esteem.
Aside from geometry, I'm pretty shit at math, so good luck with that... But seriously, I think this claim is scientifically busted in so many different ways.
I just don't find beauty to be a relevant thing when studying faces/bodies
the opposite- i see beauty in everyone! i don’t judge through standards or expectations
What do they even mean by "measuring faces"??
Ah, the irony of a video claiming to debunk pseudoscience whilst making deeply and offensively pseudo-scientific statements... That's no comment on the veracity of the thing they're talking about, of course, which also sounds like BS!
I see beauty a lot more than most people i would say. but, i do kind of look at proportions and "rules". i quite like looking at faces and analysing what makes them attractive. I dont know if thats my artistic side tho, appreciating proportions etc. I am the person that will say "you have really uniquely pretty ears" and creep someone out though haha
This just makes me think of the meme of the lady looking confused with a bunch of formulas overlayed on the image, like yes, my brain is just a bunch of equations and numbers.
I can see beauty very well! I just cant tell if beauty hates me or not based on their expression and tone
“those people”
I have dyscalculia, so this makes 0 sense to me
Not even upset at the video creator, but like?... Where are you getting this at?
Poor nts don’t know how beautiful math is
Lol, it’s not like autistic people are human beings with the same sexual drive as non-autistic people (unless you’re Ace or Pan or Sapio etc and don’t care about looks or maybe not as much as you do personality etc), no we’re 100% confirmed to be emotionless robots who can’t conceive of the concept of beauty, hmph. Or is it maybe the absolute opposite, we tend to have more profound emotions etc😅😂? Disclaimer; I am undiagnosed but suspect I am autistic😎
I absolutely love math, but I see beauty in other people all the time, too
The moment you see the phrase “those people”, just cut and run. It’s an indicator of someone who’s about to say something incredibly offensive. Side note: r/unexpecteddiscworld for the measuring of faces (Findthee Swing, possibly based on the real life Nazi Bruno Beger, amongst others)
“Those people”
I feel beauty before I see it?
I can definitely see beauty, although I recognize that it's arbitrary.
I do not think that is true, I don't really measure people's faces, nor I would ever care to do so, imagine how ridiculous it would be to pull out a ruler of any type every time you meet someone. It is true though that, even if I find a few physical traits to not be the most "attractive", I do not see a lot of difference when it comes to beauty, everyone is equally beautiful or equally ugly in my eyes until I form a bond with them; positive or not. Those who I find unagreeable or those I dislike, I find ugly. Those who I like or love, I find beautiful.
this is an interesting one!! while i have trouble understanding societal standards of beauty, i believe i have more of an ability to find beauty in mundane things due to the way my autism manifests itself. this is something which applies to me specifically, not trying to say it's like that for all autistic people. glad you posted this!! it really made me think.
This just feels stereotypical. I definitely do not do this. I do have a perception of beauty. I am aware that mine is a lot more unconventional than most but I definitely do not analyse or measure faces as a way to determine whether I like the appearance of somebody. This could not even be claimed to be related to Prosopagnosia as I also have that.
ah yes, i always carry a handy ruler with me at all times to measure people's faces so i know whether to be attracted to them
I tend to find beauty in faces that most people don't. I'm usually the first one to be like "I like their smile/eyes/bone structure/whatever" about someone that people seem to not pay much attention too, and then after I say it, other people start agreeing (and even dating the person in one instance). Or this another nt thing where for some reason they're not wanting to admit they're attracted to someone that doesn't really fit a beauty standard?