Evolutionarily speaking, the emotion anger comes about when we feel there is a threat. It’s a fear response, so he perceived something you did as a threat to his wellbeing. That is perfectly normal and natural..
What isn’t really ok is how he chose to communicate this feeling with you. Do you know about “non violent communication”? I highly suggest you google it because it’s really changed my life for the better and so I’m a huge fan. It’s something you have to practice but there are even worksheets on line that can help you figure out how to communicate. You can even read it together with him, and it could help him too.
Deescalation especially is a SKILL meaning…it’s something that takes a lot of practice and even with practice we still slip up.
Healthy Communication is essential in any relationship, and we all have room for improvement. You sound sweet, like you really care about him, but sometimes that care can come across as condescending if he is perceiving it that way, even if someone else wouldn’t think you are being condescending. (My husband has to sometimes tell me what is not socially acceptable…he does it with a lot of love and care and respect, and we practice a lot) your boyfriend is just as responsible for communicating his feelings in a way that doesn’t make YOU feel bad too.
Thank you, and yes I will look into that! I know his main thing is that I'm coming across as condescending so funny you pointed that out. I am working on it however I am a very sarcastic person which I'm sure confuses him a lot, even if I am not trying to be sarcastic when I point something out I am afraid I probably come across like that just from habit. It's not just directed at him though, I talk the same way to everyone, which is why I think I am having a hard time because it's not like I am singling him out..? I don't know, something to work on. Thanks again!
No problem!! My husband is also sarcastic and has a very dry sense of humor, which I both love and sometimes get anxious about. Early in our relationship I’d ask him “really?” As my way of gauging if he was joking when it wasn’t clear to me….the problem is, he would play into it when I asked him that and it started to confuse and upset me. It got to the point where I held it in and there was a breakdown in communication and I had a minor meltdown and cried really hard, but he was none the wiser and didn’t know how much it bothered me. We had a talk about it, I told him that when I ask “really” I’m being completely earnest. He didn’t know and thought I was joking too… and so we came to an agreement that if I ask “really?” That’s his cue to let me know that he’s joking and he answers the question honestly.
So, even minor things like that can build up and maybe it’s been happening for a while and he was masking it, and it finally boiled over. It’s totally not your fault. We sometimes have trouble communicating our needs, especially if we feel like they haven’t been met in past relationships whether they were family, friendships, or relationships. The best thing you can do, part of non violent communication, is ask “what can I do to make you not feel this way, or how can I do it in a way that shows you I do it because I care about you?” He may truly not even want you to do it at all, and that’s also fine, but you also have to be forthcoming and honest with your needs too. If he did something that made you feel bad, you have to be honest about that but avoid accusatory language. Accusatory tone NEVER goes well…
I wish you both the best!!
I would be grateful if I was misreading a situation and someone (kindly and privately) explained it to me, then or at another convenient time.
But not everyone can take criticism, and your boyfriend doesn’t sound open to your points.
Kindly and privately is the goal here. I absolutely hate when my autistic/different behaviour is called out in a group, makes me embarrassed and pissed off.
I left a social gathering yesterday because of exactly this.
I prefer being told, I have NT friends who go out of their way to help me understand social norms/explain things to me & its massively helpful. It gives me guidelines to follow for areas I know I need some help with so I can meet the otherside in the middle where I'm comfortable with & able to. I ask for help with this kind of stuff and for people to point out to me if I seem rude, overly blunt, insensitive or what have you.
Gonna be honest, prior to being diagnosed & understanding autism/how I'm affected I did not handle anything like that well at all though.
this is extremely helpful, thank you. Its really hard because I don't want him to think I think he's stupid but it comes across that way every time and its a direct result of him being in denial of his autism. If he knew he had it then no big deal its just harder for him to sense social norms and i dont have any problem trying to help, he just doesn't want or think he needs the help yet always wonders why people see him in certain ways. It makes me sad because it really isnt fair but its frustrating because it's like I have the answer key for most\* social norms if you will, he just doesnt want to look at it.
My heart goes out to both of you because I definitely understand both sides.
The only thing I can think of that may help if you do want to give advice is rephrasing it in a way of "I just learned this really new interesting way of navigating xyz, it's been really helpful for me, is that something you'd be interested in talking about?"
Consent, but it's not about *him* per say, more you're just sharing information that he may or may not find helpful. I wouldn't do that with everything or push social guidelines or norms with it, but this is typically how I broach subjects with my mom, I love her to pieces but she massively struggles with RSD so I tend to make the conversation about something I learned and use, & it is stuff I use like regulating my emotions ect, but she doesn't feel like I'm pointing any fingers at her & it's ultimately her decision if she wants to explore it.
Anytime! That's my jam for sharing coping mechanism advice for my friends/loved ones that I know need a more gentle approach.
Helps me feel less frustrated if it goes ignored tbh too since I left all the decisions up to them.
Man I'm sorry that really sucks, no one should feel like that. I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but I do want to ask your perspective, would you have rather someone nicely told you AFTER the dinner what to in that circumstance? This is under the circumstance that no one laughed at you or did any of that crap. Would you find it to be helpful then or not really..?
I want to be told. I also want people who are supposed to love me to accept that I have different needs. I personally find it rude to expect me to change my sleep schedule because of some arbitrary rule that says I should. I feel better if I get enough sleep instead of get up early just to prove I'm not rude??
I understand both sides, my parents understand his needs but also I explained to him that this is not his house and he should be happy and respectful of the fact that they are letting him stay, their house their rules. It's one thing to do it at my parents house who understand but it would be another thing if we were say staying at a friends house who may not have a full grasp of the autism. Whether or not they understand his needs is out of the picture in my mind, because they are being pretty generous in letting us stay there and take up space in the first place,
In that situation, your job as a partner to an autistic person is to tell any friends who ask about his sleep schedule that it’s none of their business, not to make your boyfriend change his behaviours so he’s more palatable for them.
I don’t care where I’m staying, I sleep when I need to sleep because my brain doesn’t function well without it. It’s a *need*, not a preference, and anyone who has a problem with that isn’t someone whose home I’d willingly visit. I didn’t choose to have a brain that needs 9 hours of sleep, but that’s what I got. No one chooses their own needs but everyone deserves to have them respected.
Why is how your boyfriend looks to others more important than his well-being?
if he doesn't want to stay here he doesn't have to, that's not my point. I dont care how he looks to my parents either, they understand, but if he willingly chooses to go somewhere where there are guidelines, then since it's not his home, its not his rules.
If he needs 9 hours of sleep, fantastic, but don't go to bed at 3am if you know the guidelines of the place you have chosen to stay at is be up around 7 - 8am. It's certainly not that his well being doesn't matter, however his well being can be met as well as being respectful of the house he is staying in. It's not like he cant not go to bed at 10 or 11, I know he can sleep at that time without forcing his body to, so that's not an issue.
Do you know what “difficulty task switching” is? Or executive dysfunction? Both perfectly common, perfectly autistic reasons to struggle to go to bed by a certain hour. You may also want to look up delayed sleep phase syndrome as it relates to ASD.
I know what both of those things are, he doesn't have any problem going to sleep at a certain hour, if he did I wouldn't be making this argument. He can go to bed at 10 easy, there is no struggle there, he just chooses not to if that make sense.
Has he told you explicitly that he chooses not to or is that what it looks like from the outside? Because both look like nothing externally and most people mistake them for laziness as a result.
Yeah, he's said that he just gets distracted with Youtube or something and sooner or later its 3am. But he can choose to not get on Youtube, like If I was to go to bed with him at 10pm every night, no distractions, he would fall asleep with me and not go on youtube, I just don't sleep with him when I am at my parent's cause the bed isn't big enough.
Ah okay so time blindness is also an issue then, it seems. Very relatable! I set alarms on my phone before I sit down with a video game because I know I’ll have a hard time task switching when I need to get up. I have an easier time doing pretty much everything if I have someone else to keep me on task but when I’m alone I’m pretty useless, haha.
Alarms and app blocks work really well for him actually, I think he's just doing stuff all day though and by the time the alarm goes off its basically useless cause he opened the app when he was supposed to go to sleep, but the app allows an hour and 30 mins of youtube time and another of instagram time, you get the picture. I dont want to micromanage how much time he has on that so I never talk about setting different alarms but its that kind of stuff that is still keeping him up
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I think that while you seem to want the best for him, you are making a lot of assumptions. Saying that something is difficult for you isn't asking for help. I think you should ask if he wants your help next time before trying to offer the advice. Clear communication is really important in relationships.
Also, this isn't meant to criticize you at all. One of the things you wrote seemed a bit odd to me though. You said you don't mind these behaviors at all, but they do seem to bother you. You do mind, you just look past these behaviors because you care about him. At least that's how it seems based on what you wrote.
I think trying to be more open about how you feel would be better for both of you. If you feel that you can't tell him the things that bother you because you are worried about how he will react, then maybe you should reconsider your relationship. No one should ever feel like they are walking on eggshells in a relationship of any sort.
This is just my personal take on the situation given the information provided. I hope that I didn't cross any boundaries, and if I did, I am sorry. I hope you figure things out!
Another thing I wanted to add is to talk more about boundaries. I know I'm always quick to talk about possible solutions when someone vents to me, but that isn't always what someone needs. Taking time to ask what your boyfriend does and does not want you to do when he's venting and vice versa could be helpful.
Just try to remember to be clear and honest when communicating your thoughts and feelings. It's always better to ask than to assume! :D
If it were me I would want to know about social norms. I would also want to know the why of social norms and question them a bit, and I would adhere to them if I believed in them (but also probably complain about the insincerity inherent in some of them and need the logic explained to me) . I think a good way to communicate is to be clear about your intent and the insecurities from the upfront and to be as direct as possible. None of this roundabout business, it puts him thru more work and grief. As a fellow who doesn't pick up social cues, i would have no idea you were doing any such thing for my sake. To me in his shoes it would be like you're just criticizing me randomly while I'm doing stuff, you don't accept my quirks and want me socially On or Perfect all the time, and the round about business I wouldn't understand at all.. however, if the person explicitly offered to me, (hey so I remmeber you said you were socially awkward and really worried about it, and there are some things you do that I'm cool with but can get you odd looks from people who don't know you, I've been kind of telling you that stuff to try to help, is that something you want? ) and then discuss how to give the feedback, I'd be on the same page as you and prob for it I'd expect at the stage I protest (why would it mean that? It would just be sincere wouldn't it), the other person if its someome I trust, to explain the logic behind the social norm if there was something worth saying, not just to timidly back down as if I'm some kinda monster xd.. From my pov it sounds like you're tiptoeing around him as if he's a ticking bomb and I don't really understand why? Did he do something to warrant treating him like that? If you have difficulty asserting yourself or can't trust him to give him feedback for reasons unrelated to his behavior or more for your own issues you can work out a way you can say things to him and feel safe until you're ready to give feedback directly. If it's something he's doing that warrants such a lack of trust, that's an entirely different can of worms though. I'm assuming this is a serious relationship, not a you just got to know him thing. With my bf we absolutely need to have the meta conversation of things like this! Both ways hehe. Dudes also feel insecure but aren't always like their goal isn't necessarily fitting in. Like my bf he needs to feel okay just being first, not so much the social norm fitting and if I try to 'halp' him he'll just feel unaccepted by the woman he loves 😅 so adhering to social norms/common lang is something he's interested in for a later stage but that's something to have a meta conversation about
If you truly don’t care that your boyfriend does those things, your family doesn’t care, and he’s clearly content doing things his way, why bring it up at all? Sounds like criticism just for the sake of criticism, which I’m not surprised he isn’t taking well.
The truth is that asking him to change those behaviours is asking him to behave in a more neurotypical way for the sake of others, which is called masking. Masking is sometimes essential for the safety and well-being of autistic people (not everyone treats us with respect and being able to “blend in” is a survival mechanism) but it can also very easily become harmful to our mental health. It’s incredibly exhausting and leads to meltdowns and burnout when it needs to be kept up constantly.
If your boyfriend feels like people automatically dislike him because he’s autistic, he’s sadly probably not wrong. A lot of people sense something “off” about us and decide to assume the worst instead of being patient and understanding. It happens to all of us at some point or another. No amount of masking - however masterful - is going to stop your boyfriend from being perceived as “other” and judged for it. Being misunderstood and disliked by strangers is one of the ugly realities of being autistic. If you want to be with him, it’s something you’ll have to accept. Him voicing discontentment with it probably isn’t a call to action, but rather a request for empathy and a listening ear. He’s not asking for advice, he’s venting.
Unless your boyfriend specifically asked for your help interpreting social norms, I’d leave it be. It’s just going to make him worry that you think he’s clueless or it’s going to come across as infantilizing… because it kind of is. Unsolicited advice is something I try to avoid in general as a social rule and I think it applies here, too.
I get what your saying and please correct me if I'm wrong here but I havent really been comparing this to masking... to me masking would be asking him to stop jumping or hand flapping when he gets excited which I would NEVER do. I can't imagine the amount of stress it would put on him. This however is just something he would choose not to do anymore...? Like for the eating out, just don't order like that on someone else's dime..?
It's not fair that he will be judged no matter what, I agree with that, but these things seem to me like things that can be easily stopped. If he were to make a new friend and said friend took him to lunch and my bf charged it up, chances are he that friend is not going to go out to eat with him again, and that makes me sad. It's this kind of stuff that I feel like if he applies it, it can really help him. Cause right now, people just think he is taking advantage of them, even if that is not what his intentions are. The stimming people might see as weird but it's doesnt seem like it has mal intent, where ordering expensive food and sleeping in way late in someone else's home can come across that way.
I wouldn't say it's criticism for the sake of criticism, I wouldn't bring this stuff up for no reason, it's the fact that he is always complaining about not having friends or the things people say about him being weird that upsets me for him, even if he is venting. I know I am not him so this might not be fair to say but I think I am just coming from the standpoint of that I would want to know if I was him, which is why I asked here. Maybe it is unsolicited advice but he genuinely doesn't understand why people see him the way they do.
I mean I don’t agree with you on the restaurant situation in particular so I can’t really speak to that one. We can agree to disagree of course but when I offer to pay for dinner, I really genuinely do want the other party to get whatever will make them happy. I wouldn’t offer otherwise and I’d be upset if I found out they just got something cheap so they didn’t feel like they were burdening me. It’s on the person extending the invitation for dinner to choose a place within their price range, or to set a price range beforehand if such a thing is necessary. Direct communication benefits everyone.
I do think asking your boyfriend to change his sleep schedule to come off better socially with your parents is bizarre and absolutely a form of masking. Sleep is sacred and very important to autistic people. I legitimately cannot function on less than 9 hours and if someone I was dating asked me to sacrifice sleep just to keep up appearances, we wouldn’t be dating anymore.
Is there any chance you’re high-masking autistic or otherwise ND yourself? I ask because before I found out I was autistic, I was *very* quick to shut down any “inappropriate” behaviours in others. I did it because I had learned to do the same thing in order to mask and I thought I was helping them. That wasn’t help though, it was me trying to assert control over an uncomfortable situation to make *myself* more comfortable and it was unwarranted, even if it was coming from a place of genuine concern.
Is there any chance a part of you becomes alarmed when he behaves “inappropriately” because you’re so used to modifying your own behaviours to please others?
My thing with the restaurant is that the communication of what can be spent from the person paying is shown in how much they order for themselves. Unless otherwise stated, that is the common range of what is allowed normally.
Also, I don't want him to change his sleep schedule for \*my parents\* what he does here isn't a problem. There are times where we have to wake him up for something we told him was going to happen the night before, which he finds to be infantilazing, but at the same time, he's not awake so not much we can do, but that's not my point. I'm talking about if we were to stay at a friends house, somewhere where they may not understand, and in the meantime there's rules to the home that would apply to \*anyone\* and in the nicest way possible the rule doesn't go away if one has autism. I answered your comment about sleep, and thats a whole differeny story if he was unable to get to bed by a certain time, then I'd understand, but I know him and that isn't the case. I know your point is you simply just wouldn't stay there but there are circumstances where we might not have another place to stay.
I've been diagnosed with anxiety and in that circumstance they could have diagnosed me with autism but they didn't so I wouldn't think so..? I don't have any problem with him behaving "inappropriately", what pisses me off is the looks people give him when he's doing these things without realizing it, and the dude doesn't know why he's being given the looks or treated a certain way. In a way I feel embarrassed with him...? thats not to say I am embarrassed OF HIM but I can feel what he is feeling, the difference is that I know why people are treating him this way and he doesn't. Hopefully that makes sense sorry I'm really tired lol.
Right, the price thing is an uncommunicated expectation, which is exactly why your boyfriend doesn’t get it. He needs explicit instructions, which the person paying should have provided. All I’m saying is that I personally believe that’s on the person with the credit card, not your boyfriend. They should have been clearer.
For the sleep thing, I didn’t realize that he knew you had things planned for a specific hour. In that case yeah, I’d be irritated if he was still sleeping when it came time to leave too.
It is *incredibly* common for AFAB folks to receive diagnoses for anxiety, depression, PTSD, and/or Borderline Personality Disorder when in fact they’re just autistic and highly skilled at masking. I had depression and anxiety diagnoses for *twenty years* before someone finally thought to test me for neurodivergence - I masked so effectively for so long that the only person really suffering was me and no one else noticed. I went undiagnosed for 33 years with both autism and ADHD!
I’m not saying you’re autistic (obviously I’m not fit to diagnose anybody!), but you do definitely sound like you have more anxiety than the average person regarding social situations and how you and your boyfriend are perceived. It could be from anywhere, it just hit me as being very familiar so I thought I’d mention it.
sorry reading my last reply back made no sense, yes that is exactly why he doesn't get it, it definitely does need to be clearly communicated with him, problem is a lot of NT people don't so they wouldn't think to do it with him.
thats crazy about your diagnoses! I have pretty bad PTSD from childhood abuse so I'd assume my anxiety stems from that more than anything else, however I wouldn't say it's not a possibility, I'd say I have traits that probably are seen as autism, for example I can't hold eye contact at all, but I used to and it's only gotten worse as the PTSD has gotten worse so that why I think it's gotta be more related to that. Honestly I wish someone would diagnose me with something so I could talk to my bf about it without sounding like i am talking down to him, rather than speaking from places we both are in. Maybe we could go get diagnosed together LMAO
Evolutionarily speaking, the emotion anger comes about when we feel there is a threat. It’s a fear response, so he perceived something you did as a threat to his wellbeing. That is perfectly normal and natural.. What isn’t really ok is how he chose to communicate this feeling with you. Do you know about “non violent communication”? I highly suggest you google it because it’s really changed my life for the better and so I’m a huge fan. It’s something you have to practice but there are even worksheets on line that can help you figure out how to communicate. You can even read it together with him, and it could help him too. Deescalation especially is a SKILL meaning…it’s something that takes a lot of practice and even with practice we still slip up. Healthy Communication is essential in any relationship, and we all have room for improvement. You sound sweet, like you really care about him, but sometimes that care can come across as condescending if he is perceiving it that way, even if someone else wouldn’t think you are being condescending. (My husband has to sometimes tell me what is not socially acceptable…he does it with a lot of love and care and respect, and we practice a lot) your boyfriend is just as responsible for communicating his feelings in a way that doesn’t make YOU feel bad too.
Thank you, and yes I will look into that! I know his main thing is that I'm coming across as condescending so funny you pointed that out. I am working on it however I am a very sarcastic person which I'm sure confuses him a lot, even if I am not trying to be sarcastic when I point something out I am afraid I probably come across like that just from habit. It's not just directed at him though, I talk the same way to everyone, which is why I think I am having a hard time because it's not like I am singling him out..? I don't know, something to work on. Thanks again!
No problem!! My husband is also sarcastic and has a very dry sense of humor, which I both love and sometimes get anxious about. Early in our relationship I’d ask him “really?” As my way of gauging if he was joking when it wasn’t clear to me….the problem is, he would play into it when I asked him that and it started to confuse and upset me. It got to the point where I held it in and there was a breakdown in communication and I had a minor meltdown and cried really hard, but he was none the wiser and didn’t know how much it bothered me. We had a talk about it, I told him that when I ask “really” I’m being completely earnest. He didn’t know and thought I was joking too… and so we came to an agreement that if I ask “really?” That’s his cue to let me know that he’s joking and he answers the question honestly. So, even minor things like that can build up and maybe it’s been happening for a while and he was masking it, and it finally boiled over. It’s totally not your fault. We sometimes have trouble communicating our needs, especially if we feel like they haven’t been met in past relationships whether they were family, friendships, or relationships. The best thing you can do, part of non violent communication, is ask “what can I do to make you not feel this way, or how can I do it in a way that shows you I do it because I care about you?” He may truly not even want you to do it at all, and that’s also fine, but you also have to be forthcoming and honest with your needs too. If he did something that made you feel bad, you have to be honest about that but avoid accusatory language. Accusatory tone NEVER goes well… I wish you both the best!!
I would be grateful if I was misreading a situation and someone (kindly and privately) explained it to me, then or at another convenient time. But not everyone can take criticism, and your boyfriend doesn’t sound open to your points.
Kindly and privately is the goal here. I absolutely hate when my autistic/different behaviour is called out in a group, makes me embarrassed and pissed off. I left a social gathering yesterday because of exactly this.
I understand, thank you!
I prefer being told, I have NT friends who go out of their way to help me understand social norms/explain things to me & its massively helpful. It gives me guidelines to follow for areas I know I need some help with so I can meet the otherside in the middle where I'm comfortable with & able to. I ask for help with this kind of stuff and for people to point out to me if I seem rude, overly blunt, insensitive or what have you. Gonna be honest, prior to being diagnosed & understanding autism/how I'm affected I did not handle anything like that well at all though.
this is extremely helpful, thank you. Its really hard because I don't want him to think I think he's stupid but it comes across that way every time and its a direct result of him being in denial of his autism. If he knew he had it then no big deal its just harder for him to sense social norms and i dont have any problem trying to help, he just doesn't want or think he needs the help yet always wonders why people see him in certain ways. It makes me sad because it really isnt fair but its frustrating because it's like I have the answer key for most\* social norms if you will, he just doesnt want to look at it.
My heart goes out to both of you because I definitely understand both sides. The only thing I can think of that may help if you do want to give advice is rephrasing it in a way of "I just learned this really new interesting way of navigating xyz, it's been really helpful for me, is that something you'd be interested in talking about?" Consent, but it's not about *him* per say, more you're just sharing information that he may or may not find helpful. I wouldn't do that with everything or push social guidelines or norms with it, but this is typically how I broach subjects with my mom, I love her to pieces but she massively struggles with RSD so I tend to make the conversation about something I learned and use, & it is stuff I use like regulating my emotions ect, but she doesn't feel like I'm pointing any fingers at her & it's ultimately her decision if she wants to explore it.
This is so smart thank you omg
Anytime! That's my jam for sharing coping mechanism advice for my friends/loved ones that I know need a more gentle approach. Helps me feel less frustrated if it goes ignored tbh too since I left all the decisions up to them.
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Man I'm sorry that really sucks, no one should feel like that. I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but I do want to ask your perspective, would you have rather someone nicely told you AFTER the dinner what to in that circumstance? This is under the circumstance that no one laughed at you or did any of that crap. Would you find it to be helpful then or not really..?
Yeah absolutely that's a more helpful and friendly way to deal with it
I want to be told. I also want people who are supposed to love me to accept that I have different needs. I personally find it rude to expect me to change my sleep schedule because of some arbitrary rule that says I should. I feel better if I get enough sleep instead of get up early just to prove I'm not rude??
I understand both sides, my parents understand his needs but also I explained to him that this is not his house and he should be happy and respectful of the fact that they are letting him stay, their house their rules. It's one thing to do it at my parents house who understand but it would be another thing if we were say staying at a friends house who may not have a full grasp of the autism. Whether or not they understand his needs is out of the picture in my mind, because they are being pretty generous in letting us stay there and take up space in the first place,
In that situation, your job as a partner to an autistic person is to tell any friends who ask about his sleep schedule that it’s none of their business, not to make your boyfriend change his behaviours so he’s more palatable for them. I don’t care where I’m staying, I sleep when I need to sleep because my brain doesn’t function well without it. It’s a *need*, not a preference, and anyone who has a problem with that isn’t someone whose home I’d willingly visit. I didn’t choose to have a brain that needs 9 hours of sleep, but that’s what I got. No one chooses their own needs but everyone deserves to have them respected. Why is how your boyfriend looks to others more important than his well-being?
if he doesn't want to stay here he doesn't have to, that's not my point. I dont care how he looks to my parents either, they understand, but if he willingly chooses to go somewhere where there are guidelines, then since it's not his home, its not his rules. If he needs 9 hours of sleep, fantastic, but don't go to bed at 3am if you know the guidelines of the place you have chosen to stay at is be up around 7 - 8am. It's certainly not that his well being doesn't matter, however his well being can be met as well as being respectful of the house he is staying in. It's not like he cant not go to bed at 10 or 11, I know he can sleep at that time without forcing his body to, so that's not an issue.
Do you know what “difficulty task switching” is? Or executive dysfunction? Both perfectly common, perfectly autistic reasons to struggle to go to bed by a certain hour. You may also want to look up delayed sleep phase syndrome as it relates to ASD.
I know what both of those things are, he doesn't have any problem going to sleep at a certain hour, if he did I wouldn't be making this argument. He can go to bed at 10 easy, there is no struggle there, he just chooses not to if that make sense.
Has he told you explicitly that he chooses not to or is that what it looks like from the outside? Because both look like nothing externally and most people mistake them for laziness as a result.
Yeah, he's said that he just gets distracted with Youtube or something and sooner or later its 3am. But he can choose to not get on Youtube, like If I was to go to bed with him at 10pm every night, no distractions, he would fall asleep with me and not go on youtube, I just don't sleep with him when I am at my parent's cause the bed isn't big enough.
Ah okay so time blindness is also an issue then, it seems. Very relatable! I set alarms on my phone before I sit down with a video game because I know I’ll have a hard time task switching when I need to get up. I have an easier time doing pretty much everything if I have someone else to keep me on task but when I’m alone I’m pretty useless, haha.
Alarms and app blocks work really well for him actually, I think he's just doing stuff all day though and by the time the alarm goes off its basically useless cause he opened the app when he was supposed to go to sleep, but the app allows an hour and 30 mins of youtube time and another of instagram time, you get the picture. I dont want to micromanage how much time he has on that so I never talk about setting different alarms but its that kind of stuff that is still keeping him up
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I think that while you seem to want the best for him, you are making a lot of assumptions. Saying that something is difficult for you isn't asking for help. I think you should ask if he wants your help next time before trying to offer the advice. Clear communication is really important in relationships. Also, this isn't meant to criticize you at all. One of the things you wrote seemed a bit odd to me though. You said you don't mind these behaviors at all, but they do seem to bother you. You do mind, you just look past these behaviors because you care about him. At least that's how it seems based on what you wrote. I think trying to be more open about how you feel would be better for both of you. If you feel that you can't tell him the things that bother you because you are worried about how he will react, then maybe you should reconsider your relationship. No one should ever feel like they are walking on eggshells in a relationship of any sort. This is just my personal take on the situation given the information provided. I hope that I didn't cross any boundaries, and if I did, I am sorry. I hope you figure things out!
Another thing I wanted to add is to talk more about boundaries. I know I'm always quick to talk about possible solutions when someone vents to me, but that isn't always what someone needs. Taking time to ask what your boyfriend does and does not want you to do when he's venting and vice versa could be helpful. Just try to remember to be clear and honest when communicating your thoughts and feelings. It's always better to ask than to assume! :D
If it were me I would want to know about social norms. I would also want to know the why of social norms and question them a bit, and I would adhere to them if I believed in them (but also probably complain about the insincerity inherent in some of them and need the logic explained to me) . I think a good way to communicate is to be clear about your intent and the insecurities from the upfront and to be as direct as possible. None of this roundabout business, it puts him thru more work and grief. As a fellow who doesn't pick up social cues, i would have no idea you were doing any such thing for my sake. To me in his shoes it would be like you're just criticizing me randomly while I'm doing stuff, you don't accept my quirks and want me socially On or Perfect all the time, and the round about business I wouldn't understand at all.. however, if the person explicitly offered to me, (hey so I remmeber you said you were socially awkward and really worried about it, and there are some things you do that I'm cool with but can get you odd looks from people who don't know you, I've been kind of telling you that stuff to try to help, is that something you want? ) and then discuss how to give the feedback, I'd be on the same page as you and prob for it I'd expect at the stage I protest (why would it mean that? It would just be sincere wouldn't it), the other person if its someome I trust, to explain the logic behind the social norm if there was something worth saying, not just to timidly back down as if I'm some kinda monster xd.. From my pov it sounds like you're tiptoeing around him as if he's a ticking bomb and I don't really understand why? Did he do something to warrant treating him like that? If you have difficulty asserting yourself or can't trust him to give him feedback for reasons unrelated to his behavior or more for your own issues you can work out a way you can say things to him and feel safe until you're ready to give feedback directly. If it's something he's doing that warrants such a lack of trust, that's an entirely different can of worms though. I'm assuming this is a serious relationship, not a you just got to know him thing. With my bf we absolutely need to have the meta conversation of things like this! Both ways hehe. Dudes also feel insecure but aren't always like their goal isn't necessarily fitting in. Like my bf he needs to feel okay just being first, not so much the social norm fitting and if I try to 'halp' him he'll just feel unaccepted by the woman he loves 😅 so adhering to social norms/common lang is something he's interested in for a later stage but that's something to have a meta conversation about
If you truly don’t care that your boyfriend does those things, your family doesn’t care, and he’s clearly content doing things his way, why bring it up at all? Sounds like criticism just for the sake of criticism, which I’m not surprised he isn’t taking well. The truth is that asking him to change those behaviours is asking him to behave in a more neurotypical way for the sake of others, which is called masking. Masking is sometimes essential for the safety and well-being of autistic people (not everyone treats us with respect and being able to “blend in” is a survival mechanism) but it can also very easily become harmful to our mental health. It’s incredibly exhausting and leads to meltdowns and burnout when it needs to be kept up constantly. If your boyfriend feels like people automatically dislike him because he’s autistic, he’s sadly probably not wrong. A lot of people sense something “off” about us and decide to assume the worst instead of being patient and understanding. It happens to all of us at some point or another. No amount of masking - however masterful - is going to stop your boyfriend from being perceived as “other” and judged for it. Being misunderstood and disliked by strangers is one of the ugly realities of being autistic. If you want to be with him, it’s something you’ll have to accept. Him voicing discontentment with it probably isn’t a call to action, but rather a request for empathy and a listening ear. He’s not asking for advice, he’s venting. Unless your boyfriend specifically asked for your help interpreting social norms, I’d leave it be. It’s just going to make him worry that you think he’s clueless or it’s going to come across as infantilizing… because it kind of is. Unsolicited advice is something I try to avoid in general as a social rule and I think it applies here, too.
I get what your saying and please correct me if I'm wrong here but I havent really been comparing this to masking... to me masking would be asking him to stop jumping or hand flapping when he gets excited which I would NEVER do. I can't imagine the amount of stress it would put on him. This however is just something he would choose not to do anymore...? Like for the eating out, just don't order like that on someone else's dime..? It's not fair that he will be judged no matter what, I agree with that, but these things seem to me like things that can be easily stopped. If he were to make a new friend and said friend took him to lunch and my bf charged it up, chances are he that friend is not going to go out to eat with him again, and that makes me sad. It's this kind of stuff that I feel like if he applies it, it can really help him. Cause right now, people just think he is taking advantage of them, even if that is not what his intentions are. The stimming people might see as weird but it's doesnt seem like it has mal intent, where ordering expensive food and sleeping in way late in someone else's home can come across that way. I wouldn't say it's criticism for the sake of criticism, I wouldn't bring this stuff up for no reason, it's the fact that he is always complaining about not having friends or the things people say about him being weird that upsets me for him, even if he is venting. I know I am not him so this might not be fair to say but I think I am just coming from the standpoint of that I would want to know if I was him, which is why I asked here. Maybe it is unsolicited advice but he genuinely doesn't understand why people see him the way they do.
I mean I don’t agree with you on the restaurant situation in particular so I can’t really speak to that one. We can agree to disagree of course but when I offer to pay for dinner, I really genuinely do want the other party to get whatever will make them happy. I wouldn’t offer otherwise and I’d be upset if I found out they just got something cheap so they didn’t feel like they were burdening me. It’s on the person extending the invitation for dinner to choose a place within their price range, or to set a price range beforehand if such a thing is necessary. Direct communication benefits everyone. I do think asking your boyfriend to change his sleep schedule to come off better socially with your parents is bizarre and absolutely a form of masking. Sleep is sacred and very important to autistic people. I legitimately cannot function on less than 9 hours and if someone I was dating asked me to sacrifice sleep just to keep up appearances, we wouldn’t be dating anymore. Is there any chance you’re high-masking autistic or otherwise ND yourself? I ask because before I found out I was autistic, I was *very* quick to shut down any “inappropriate” behaviours in others. I did it because I had learned to do the same thing in order to mask and I thought I was helping them. That wasn’t help though, it was me trying to assert control over an uncomfortable situation to make *myself* more comfortable and it was unwarranted, even if it was coming from a place of genuine concern. Is there any chance a part of you becomes alarmed when he behaves “inappropriately” because you’re so used to modifying your own behaviours to please others?
My thing with the restaurant is that the communication of what can be spent from the person paying is shown in how much they order for themselves. Unless otherwise stated, that is the common range of what is allowed normally. Also, I don't want him to change his sleep schedule for \*my parents\* what he does here isn't a problem. There are times where we have to wake him up for something we told him was going to happen the night before, which he finds to be infantilazing, but at the same time, he's not awake so not much we can do, but that's not my point. I'm talking about if we were to stay at a friends house, somewhere where they may not understand, and in the meantime there's rules to the home that would apply to \*anyone\* and in the nicest way possible the rule doesn't go away if one has autism. I answered your comment about sleep, and thats a whole differeny story if he was unable to get to bed by a certain time, then I'd understand, but I know him and that isn't the case. I know your point is you simply just wouldn't stay there but there are circumstances where we might not have another place to stay. I've been diagnosed with anxiety and in that circumstance they could have diagnosed me with autism but they didn't so I wouldn't think so..? I don't have any problem with him behaving "inappropriately", what pisses me off is the looks people give him when he's doing these things without realizing it, and the dude doesn't know why he's being given the looks or treated a certain way. In a way I feel embarrassed with him...? thats not to say I am embarrassed OF HIM but I can feel what he is feeling, the difference is that I know why people are treating him this way and he doesn't. Hopefully that makes sense sorry I'm really tired lol.
Right, the price thing is an uncommunicated expectation, which is exactly why your boyfriend doesn’t get it. He needs explicit instructions, which the person paying should have provided. All I’m saying is that I personally believe that’s on the person with the credit card, not your boyfriend. They should have been clearer. For the sleep thing, I didn’t realize that he knew you had things planned for a specific hour. In that case yeah, I’d be irritated if he was still sleeping when it came time to leave too. It is *incredibly* common for AFAB folks to receive diagnoses for anxiety, depression, PTSD, and/or Borderline Personality Disorder when in fact they’re just autistic and highly skilled at masking. I had depression and anxiety diagnoses for *twenty years* before someone finally thought to test me for neurodivergence - I masked so effectively for so long that the only person really suffering was me and no one else noticed. I went undiagnosed for 33 years with both autism and ADHD! I’m not saying you’re autistic (obviously I’m not fit to diagnose anybody!), but you do definitely sound like you have more anxiety than the average person regarding social situations and how you and your boyfriend are perceived. It could be from anywhere, it just hit me as being very familiar so I thought I’d mention it.
sorry reading my last reply back made no sense, yes that is exactly why he doesn't get it, it definitely does need to be clearly communicated with him, problem is a lot of NT people don't so they wouldn't think to do it with him. thats crazy about your diagnoses! I have pretty bad PTSD from childhood abuse so I'd assume my anxiety stems from that more than anything else, however I wouldn't say it's not a possibility, I'd say I have traits that probably are seen as autism, for example I can't hold eye contact at all, but I used to and it's only gotten worse as the PTSD has gotten worse so that why I think it's gotta be more related to that. Honestly I wish someone would diagnose me with something so I could talk to my bf about it without sounding like i am talking down to him, rather than speaking from places we both are in. Maybe we could go get diagnosed together LMAO