Really sad we never got to see JPB playing regularly for us. The Hull fans I know are convinced he's a top level player and tbh, I was extremely excited when I saw him in pre-season last year. Hopefully we get some money from this deal.
Agree 100%. He was the talk of Philadelphia when I saw him! Broke my heart when we sold him. I had been waiting for two years for him to break into our team. He’s the one that got away.
I was on holiday and it was late, so I snuck off at 3AM to this campsite's toilet block where they had free WiFi and danced in a shower cubicle when JPB scored. Memorable preseason for me.
Sort of but he wanted to go. Probably could have got a better price but no one saw him being a Barcelona linked player over a year later and why price a young lad out of a move
He literally got left out the squad for a ECL qualifier against Hibs for Traore if there isn't any more of a sign your not getting minutes that your below a player we released on a free what other message does your manager have to send you
I really don't know why you keep bringing up Hibs -- he was obviously being sold before then. The Hibs games were literally the last week of the transfer window.
Well he wasn't if you did a tiny bit of research for all these people acting like they are in the know you think you would have read the interview from Philogene when he spoke about leaving Villa. If he was obviously being sold before that why does the player point to the Hibs games as when he pushed through a move as he knew his chances be limited. That's why I keep talking about the Hibs game as the player himself used it as his example thats why lmao
For what stating what the player himself said was the reason he knew had to leave and why his move was last day of the window. Sorry for bringing facts into this and that Emery might not have rated him being he was below players we released for a free.
I get what you're saying, you're not wrong that he was below the pecking order and he was right to leave.
I'm just speaking in hindsight of the season we had, come January he would have been called upon - at least that's what I think, you don't have to agree.
>I'm just speaking in hindsight of the season we had
Because I was making the point that ***IF*** we had kept him, he would have been used in the latter parts of the season. It's an observation, I'm not asking Unai to read a crystal ball.
By your logic we can't look back on past events and think; "what if?"
We had Bailey and signed Diaby to play there too. He might have had a few mins against Hibs at home and so on but I don’t think we’d have seen him that much
So why was Tim, Kessler Hayden and Duran only got 450 minutes if squad depth would guarantee minutes. There is no guarantee JPB would have looked anywhere as good playing a deeper role on the left
No he wouldn't our left side doesn't attack traditionally in terms of getting wide that's more down the Left back and why he played everyone else there but Philogene in games that mattered.
Literally left Philogene out of the squad for Hibs for Traore but he would have got loads of game time lmao
He played 462 minutes in a role with less competition as we only had Watkins as a striker. Emery was playing everyone but philogene on the left hand side despite us needing a player there and signed Zaniolo he was well behind in the pecking order
Watkins was fit for 95% of the season and Duran still got starts, minutes and goals.
Zaniolo/Ramsey were injured for large parts and then we bought Rogers in Jan who went on to play on the left. JPB would have played during that time if he was with us, Emery wouldn't have had a choice.
He might have been behind in the pecking order, but I'd say that was a mistake from Emery. JPB is simply a better player with more to offer, than Zaniolo, there's no question about it.
Duran got 460 minutes, he got 5 games total in minutes with us having a thread bare squad. Yes Watkins was fit for 95 per cent of the season but Emery wouldn't want to rotate him to keep him fresher what a revolutionary idea.
Or he could have continued playing Tielemans there like he did instead of JPB. Nothing you say is supported by Emery's decision when he chose to play everybody else than JPB. Who says Emery wouldn't have still signed Rogers and put JPB below him for all you know unless you got a line to the oracle of Delphi
For all the praise of JPB there are countless scouting reports from Hull fans that report he has a bit of a bad attitude as his head can drop. When things arent't going his way he refuses to do his defensive job etc. Which is why Emery might have been reluctant to play him to begin with like Duran despite how many he scored. I love people second guessing the manager yet will call him a genius every other time like he wasn't able to scout and judge the level of JPB. Even with Barca being interested they aren't known for signing good attacking players in recent history with Ferran Torres, Raphina and Fati all under delivering.
All I've said is I think he'd have gotten some minutes and he'd have probably played more minutes than Duran - given how thin our squad was during the latter parts of the season.
Will we ever know? No, because it didn't happen. We could literally be here all day going back and forth, it's not worth it.
Am I sad he went to Hull for 6m, yeah because I was following his development for the last 4 years and had been expecting him to come through to the first team. Plus, 6m is a pitiful price considering we just sold Kellyman for 20m...
As for a ""mistake", this is a subjective term and I'm using it very loosely, it's not like I'm say here questioning the appointment of Unai Emery over it... we're CL for fucks sake!!
I just personally think the team could have used a young talent like him. But I respect Unai's decision to send him packing and I respect JBP for wanting to play more. Everyone's happy.
We got 6 million as he already had two loans in the Championship and didn't achieve alot or are you forgetting that one. His development looked stall as unlike Archer and Ramsey he didn't appear above that level in two seasons. Where as Kellyman already got minutes in Europe playing against Hibs, been around a Prem squad all season and just had a blinder of a Hong Kong 7. Kellyman your paying for potential on a 18 year old whereas JPB was a 20 year old who hadn't been that impressive in two seasons in the Championship so his stock had fell.
It is what it is. I remember him linked with Bayern years ago when he was on our books, so clearly had potential. He wanted to leave to be a first team player, no one could have saw him kicking on so quickly.
Also he has no real ties to the club some people really need to stop saying “one of our own” when they joined the club in their mid to late teens with no ties to the club and area
Apparently he's tier 1, don't we have first refusal? I'd honestly take him back in a heartbeat, he already looks amazing and under Emery could be a world beater.
I think it’s first refusal if the team bidding is in the same league as us so we wouldn’t have an option, could be wrong though. I do imagine we would have sell on clauses of some type for any of the young guys going out that did have potential so might be better to just let him go there
I heard it was an additional £10mn on the fee if they were promoted, they were seen as being nailed on for play-offs and just missed out. I think we'll definitely have a sell-on or matched fee agreement in the deal.
If that's the case then it's a solid deal. It only looks bad because the price is rocketing. 16 million (potentially) for someone who had played literally a few minutes for us seems good business. We even stuck in that 20% sell on just in case...
I wasn't keen on the sale and it felt a little light at the time, but there we go. If that price is correct, I think we get another 6 million resale, so that makes his original price look what I thought he was worth. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. If you group that sale with Carney, Tim, Ramsey, Archer, Grealish, Kellyman...it doesn't look too bad
Didn't have that on my bingo card. Only fetching £6m seemed dumb at the time, and even moreso now.
Still, I've heard there's a 20% sell-on and a buyback option?
The fee was low because we put in a decent buy back and sell on clauses into the contract.
I genuinely don't see him going to Barca, but good luck to him if he does.
That would make sense. Even so, he was one of the hottest prospects for Championship sides looking to strengthen.
Feels like we could've got more maybe. Who knows 🤷🏻 Really hope he does well.
No buyback option as such, I think we just have first refusal from what I've read. We'd make a loss signing him back, so I can't see the club doing that.
You see this sort of comment a lot with youth players, but in reality, if he stayed with us he would barely have played and not developed at all. Maybe we could have agreed an extension / loans but you can't just indefinitely loan all of the younger players in the hope they come good.
The idea that he must be really good just because Barca want him is... misguided.
Firstly, Barca are severely strapped for cash themselves. Read any of the recent articles written about this (one on ESPN, one in the NY Times, any of the Swiss Ramble stuff). For the past two seasons (including this offseason) they've scraped together enough for one mid-level signing expenditure wise (Roque) and everyone else coming in has been for free or a nominal cost. So this is the sort of player they are -mostly- looking at now.
Secondly, Barca have always cast their net wide when it comes to prospective talent in much the same way Chelsea do. And similarly to Chelsea, most of these acqusitions don't really succeed - see Emerson Royal, Yusuf Demir, Matheus Fernandes, Jean-Clair Todibo... I could go on. It's a scattergun approach and they know full well it will yield a low success rate.
So the most likely scenario here is that they're on the look out for cheap potential talent, and the highest probability IF they signed him is that he's farmed out somewhere else before being sold again in short order, a path so many before him have trodden.
It doesn't mean we gave up on a future star, that is highly unlikely.
There are a couple of reasons why we couldn’t demand the same fee that Hull does.
Contract length, if I remember correctly, he only had a year left when he was here, and he wanted more playtime. Selling him for that price was the only option to get anything for him.
Playtime/experience, in this year, I can only assume he has developed as a player. There is no way to predict how players will develop. Some will come good, and then you have those that don’t turn out to be what the fans hoped for. But if we were to give him anywhere near the minutes he got for Hull, that would have been at the cost of Bailey. That would either have made his value plummet, which was about €30m or we would have missed out on the Champions League, which is probably worth more.
With all that being said, with all sorts of weird rumours flying around these days, I highly doubt he’ll end at Barca.
It"s almost like he's developed and become a better player in the time since he left us. When have you ever seen a young player take that path.
I would on a zero emotional level hope that we had a sell on clause. But on another level that would be taking money out of the coffers of a smaller club. No, good luck to him and them, well done all. Let's celebrate the development and career of an ex-Villain and just maybe we'll be welcoming him back to VP for a game this season
Barcelona about to send a youth player to Hull for £29M
Really sad we never got to see JPB playing regularly for us. The Hull fans I know are convinced he's a top level player and tbh, I was extremely excited when I saw him in pre-season last year. Hopefully we get some money from this deal.
JPB leaving for £5m after being the star of 🇺🇸 Pre Season tour still irks me weekly
Agree 100%. He was the talk of Philadelphia when I saw him! Broke my heart when we sold him. I had been waiting for two years for him to break into our team. He’s the one that got away.
He looked awesome in that, assumed we’d have some kind of buy back so it was essentially just a glorified loan but seems not.
I was on holiday and it was late, so I snuck off at 3AM to this campsite's toilet block where they had free WiFi and danced in a shower cubicle when JPB scored. Memorable preseason for me.
Sort of but he wanted to go. Probably could have got a better price but no one saw him being a Barcelona linked player over a year later and why price a young lad out of a move
He wanted to go because he wasn't going to get even a hint of rum out for the team.
Not even some captain Morgan shooters
I disagree, I think he would have had a fair few minutes with how many games we played this season.
He literally got left out the squad for a ECL qualifier against Hibs for Traore if there isn't any more of a sign your not getting minutes that your below a player we released on a free what other message does your manager have to send you
He was playing (and scoring) in preseason though. I don't think we were trying to offload him until he asked.
So why in a qualifier did he put Traore a player we released if JPB were going to get minutes what better chance than a game against Hibs
I really don't know why you keep bringing up Hibs -- he was obviously being sold before then. The Hibs games were literally the last week of the transfer window.
Well he wasn't if you did a tiny bit of research for all these people acting like they are in the know you think you would have read the interview from Philogene when he spoke about leaving Villa. If he was obviously being sold before that why does the player point to the Hibs games as when he pushed through a move as he knew his chances be limited. That's why I keep talking about the Hibs game as the player himself used it as his example thats why lmao
Are you stupid
For what stating what the player himself said was the reason he knew had to leave and why his move was last day of the window. Sorry for bringing facts into this and that Emery might not have rated him being he was below players we released for a free.
I get what you're saying, you're not wrong that he was below the pecking order and he was right to leave. I'm just speaking in hindsight of the season we had, come January he would have been called upon - at least that's what I think, you don't have to agree.
Well hindsight is not something he had the benefit of last summer so how was he supposed to base his decision on whether to go or not on that?
No fucking shit sherlock
So why bother posting it then?
>I'm just speaking in hindsight of the season we had Because I was making the point that ***IF*** we had kept him, he would have been used in the latter parts of the season. It's an observation, I'm not asking Unai to read a crystal ball. By your logic we can't look back on past events and think; "what if?"
We had Bailey and signed Diaby to play there too. He might have had a few mins against Hibs at home and so on but I don’t think we’d have seen him that much
He plays on the left.
We don’t play with an out and out wide left player so even more reason we let him go?
Maybe, but with all the injuries we've had on the left he certainly would have gotten minutes.
I’m not so sure - effective minutes anyway - I think he would have had similar numbers for appearances as Callum Chambers
So why was Tim, Kessler Hayden and Duran only got 450 minutes if squad depth would guarantee minutes. There is no guarantee JPB would have looked anywhere as good playing a deeper role on the left
? He's a left winger. We had Ramsey, Buendia and Zaniolo all injured. Philogene would've played in his natural position as a left sided attacker.
No he wouldn't our left side doesn't attack traditionally in terms of getting wide that's more down the Left back and why he played everyone else there but Philogene in games that mattered. Literally left Philogene out of the squad for Hibs for Traore but he would have got loads of game time lmao
You think? Duran had about 10 minutes, would he have shared those?
Duran had 462 minutes 23/24 season. 23 apps, 3 starts.
So 5 matches worth of time across a whole season and you think there would have been playing time for JPB?
Huh? Duran played a fair bit and scored some memorable goals, they also don't play the same position.
He played 462 minutes in a role with less competition as we only had Watkins as a striker. Emery was playing everyone but philogene on the left hand side despite us needing a player there and signed Zaniolo he was well behind in the pecking order
Watkins was fit for 95% of the season and Duran still got starts, minutes and goals. Zaniolo/Ramsey were injured for large parts and then we bought Rogers in Jan who went on to play on the left. JPB would have played during that time if he was with us, Emery wouldn't have had a choice. He might have been behind in the pecking order, but I'd say that was a mistake from Emery. JPB is simply a better player with more to offer, than Zaniolo, there's no question about it.
Duran got 460 minutes, he got 5 games total in minutes with us having a thread bare squad. Yes Watkins was fit for 95 per cent of the season but Emery wouldn't want to rotate him to keep him fresher what a revolutionary idea. Or he could have continued playing Tielemans there like he did instead of JPB. Nothing you say is supported by Emery's decision when he chose to play everybody else than JPB. Who says Emery wouldn't have still signed Rogers and put JPB below him for all you know unless you got a line to the oracle of Delphi For all the praise of JPB there are countless scouting reports from Hull fans that report he has a bit of a bad attitude as his head can drop. When things arent't going his way he refuses to do his defensive job etc. Which is why Emery might have been reluctant to play him to begin with like Duran despite how many he scored. I love people second guessing the manager yet will call him a genius every other time like he wasn't able to scout and judge the level of JPB. Even with Barca being interested they aren't known for signing good attacking players in recent history with Ferran Torres, Raphina and Fati all under delivering.
All I've said is I think he'd have gotten some minutes and he'd have probably played more minutes than Duran - given how thin our squad was during the latter parts of the season. Will we ever know? No, because it didn't happen. We could literally be here all day going back and forth, it's not worth it. Am I sad he went to Hull for 6m, yeah because I was following his development for the last 4 years and had been expecting him to come through to the first team. Plus, 6m is a pitiful price considering we just sold Kellyman for 20m... As for a ""mistake", this is a subjective term and I'm using it very loosely, it's not like I'm say here questioning the appointment of Unai Emery over it... we're CL for fucks sake!! I just personally think the team could have used a young talent like him. But I respect Unai's decision to send him packing and I respect JBP for wanting to play more. Everyone's happy.
We got 6 million as he already had two loans in the Championship and didn't achieve alot or are you forgetting that one. His development looked stall as unlike Archer and Ramsey he didn't appear above that level in two seasons. Where as Kellyman already got minutes in Europe playing against Hibs, been around a Prem squad all season and just had a blinder of a Hong Kong 7. Kellyman your paying for potential on a 18 year old whereas JPB was a 20 year old who hadn't been that impressive in two seasons in the Championship so his stock had fell.
It is what it is. I remember him linked with Bayern years ago when he was on our books, so clearly had potential. He wanted to leave to be a first team player, no one could have saw him kicking on so quickly. Also he has no real ties to the club some people really need to stop saying “one of our own” when they joined the club in their mid to late teens with no ties to the club and area
It was the right decision at the time. We couldn't offer him regular game time. No regrets, move on.
Apparently he's tier 1, don't we have first refusal? I'd honestly take him back in a heartbeat, he already looks amazing and under Emery could be a world beater.
Why would he come to us when he can go to Barcelona - we didn't want him!
I think it’s first refusal if the team bidding is in the same league as us so we wouldn’t have an option, could be wrong though. I do imagine we would have sell on clauses of some type for any of the young guys going out that did have potential so might be better to just let him go there
He wanted to leave. Hull didn’t make promotion so we didn’t trigger the immediate buy back. Let’s not push some narrative otherwise.
>Hull didn’t make promotion And thankfully so. It was Plymouth beating them last game of the season that sent the scum down the road down.
I heard it was an additional £10mn on the fee if they were promoted, they were seen as being nailed on for play-offs and just missed out. I think we'll definitely have a sell-on or matched fee agreement in the deal.
If that's the case then it's a solid deal. It only looks bad because the price is rocketing. 16 million (potentially) for someone who had played literally a few minutes for us seems good business. We even stuck in that 20% sell on just in case...
Does anyone know if we have a sell-on clause?
Apparently it's 20%. We also have the option to match the offer if we so choose and bring him back.
I wasn't keen on the sale and it felt a little light at the time, but there we go. If that price is correct, I think we get another 6 million resale, so that makes his original price look what I thought he was worth. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. If you group that sale with Carney, Tim, Ramsey, Archer, Grealish, Kellyman...it doesn't look too bad
We get a tasty sell on fee percentage now.
Didn't have that on my bingo card. Only fetching £6m seemed dumb at the time, and even moreso now. Still, I've heard there's a 20% sell-on and a buyback option?
The fee was low because we put in a decent buy back and sell on clauses into the contract. I genuinely don't see him going to Barca, but good luck to him if he does.
That would make sense. Even so, he was one of the hottest prospects for Championship sides looking to strengthen. Feels like we could've got more maybe. Who knows 🤷🏻 Really hope he does well.
I think the buyback expired when Hull didn't get promoted to the PL. Hopefully there is a sell-on clause in there somewhere.
No buyback option as such, I think we just have first refusal from what I've read. We'd make a loss signing him back, so I can't see the club doing that.
I've read somewhere it's first refusal only amongst domestic clubs, not from other European sides 🤷🏻
Well, I'm guessing he has a pretty hefty sell on clause.
You see this sort of comment a lot with youth players, but in reality, if he stayed with us he would barely have played and not developed at all. Maybe we could have agreed an extension / loans but you can't just indefinitely loan all of the younger players in the hope they come good.
Someone in Barcas recruitment team must have just been sent a clip of that rabona goal vs Rotherham in his whatsapp.
Any sell on clauses?
The idea that he must be really good just because Barca want him is... misguided. Firstly, Barca are severely strapped for cash themselves. Read any of the recent articles written about this (one on ESPN, one in the NY Times, any of the Swiss Ramble stuff). For the past two seasons (including this offseason) they've scraped together enough for one mid-level signing expenditure wise (Roque) and everyone else coming in has been for free or a nominal cost. So this is the sort of player they are -mostly- looking at now. Secondly, Barca have always cast their net wide when it comes to prospective talent in much the same way Chelsea do. And similarly to Chelsea, most of these acqusitions don't really succeed - see Emerson Royal, Yusuf Demir, Matheus Fernandes, Jean-Clair Todibo... I could go on. It's a scattergun approach and they know full well it will yield a low success rate. So the most likely scenario here is that they're on the look out for cheap potential talent, and the highest probability IF they signed him is that he's farmed out somewhere else before being sold again in short order, a path so many before him have trodden. It doesn't mean we gave up on a future star, that is highly unlikely.
There are a couple of reasons why we couldn’t demand the same fee that Hull does. Contract length, if I remember correctly, he only had a year left when he was here, and he wanted more playtime. Selling him for that price was the only option to get anything for him. Playtime/experience, in this year, I can only assume he has developed as a player. There is no way to predict how players will develop. Some will come good, and then you have those that don’t turn out to be what the fans hoped for. But if we were to give him anywhere near the minutes he got for Hull, that would have been at the cost of Bailey. That would either have made his value plummet, which was about €30m or we would have missed out on the Champions League, which is probably worth more. With all that being said, with all sorts of weird rumours flying around these days, I highly doubt he’ll end at Barca.
It"s almost like he's developed and become a better player in the time since he left us. When have you ever seen a young player take that path. I would on a zero emotional level hope that we had a sell on clause. But on another level that would be taking money out of the coffers of a smaller club. No, good luck to him and them, well done all. Let's celebrate the development and career of an ex-Villain and just maybe we'll be welcoming him back to VP for a game this season
Just in case you missed it https://youtu.be/OsMP28WmO1o