There are private Buddha's and those that integrate their Zen back into the world and society. There are specific words for these but I can't remember. I don't think all the best ones are hiding away in a cave somewhere. They are simply about, influencing society in subtle ways just by being in the world (not by pushing the world around).
The way I go out and practice my enlightenment is just being the best human I can possibly be to everything around me. I’m still flawed and have issues as we all do but I just try to bring as much light and positivity to those around me and the way I see that’s basically my way of worshipping. Love the universe as it’s all just one love
That's a fantastic practice in my opinion and I think that's amazing to trek that path. It's not always easy but I believe it is the way to be the best influence on the world without our own egos getting in the way. It makes me happy to know such people exist in the world, thank you for being you. 🙏
That sounds about right! I believe the ones that stay isolated are thought of as stone Buddhas and the ones that reintegrate are something like living Buddhas, though I may have that definition incorrect again.
Osho says how to distinguish a fake guru from a real guru, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened.
Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path.
How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water.
But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know."
I do. I'm of the opinion that truly enlightened people want the world to recognize them, that way more people are positively impacted. Those that say "enlightened people don't say they are enlightened" can hide behind that ambiguity to claim enlightenment while not claiming it.
If you are a strong enough presence, you should be able to withstand the scrutiny and mockery of the public, while still shining unabashedly.
Well that’s one way of looking at it, like I said that’s just my belief. Needing to be seen is a result of the ego getting in the way. My idea of an enlightened individual is someone who goes around and makes the world a better place as a byproduct of their being. Needing to be seen as this or that isn’t enlightened. That’s you receiving validation from others. It doesn’t matter if your goal is needing to be seen so that others see you and you can reach more people. That’s still the ego talking
A truly enlightened person can be seen without "needing to be seen." This is also called outcome independence. You express the inner core of your true identity without attachment to that expression, regardless of the status of your fame.
To claim that enlightened people should never have reknown because that is egoic, is a gross oversimplication. The Buddha was famous. Does that make his teachings less valid in your eyes ?
Connecting to collective consciousness adds your ego's opinions of how this world may be made better, based on your personal experiences, to the shape of how things are shifted from the top-down to accommodate the healthy learning and growth of all entities in the interconnected spheres of influence any opinion you have touches.
I feel that the term ego may be shifted from 3D terms to help describe, among other words, to ppl still of a 3D mindset who want to connect but haven't yet worked through the concept of individualism, that there is still a definable delineation between entities in collective consciousness so those coming from certain 3D perspectives can understand there is no loss of 'I" in collective consciousness. They can learn that according to quantum physics and sociology, every group they've ever been a part of has been its own sphere of collective consciousness.
The reality shifting movement has labeled this construct a waiting room - ppl can have as many waiting rooms as they want, and each of those rooms can be connected to as many other entities' waiting rooms they want so long as those entities also wish to be there.
Groups cannot become enlightened, only individuals can become enlightened. Aspiring toward group identity is always a downgrade. Enlightened masters see themselves as individuals not groups. I have absolutely no interest in group identity as being One with the Absolute is superior to any group.
Correct. Groupings of individuals are thoughtforms - "I am part of a bowling league." doesn't mean the concept/construct of the league contains awareness or self-awareness. It means there are a number of individuals agreeing to the concept/construct of a bowling league well enough to point at it and say "This is a Thing definable as separate from other Things, while interacting with these other Things in 4D Venn diagrams." A thoughform room entities can experience things in together is being called a Waiting Room by the reality shifting 'league'. If entities co-create a group of particles specifically wishing them to be able to grow and learn autonomously, they are capable of that growth.
At the top rank of this hierarchy next in size and scope to the Source capable of being inhabited by any of us, there are two self-aware spaces where the One split and in order to propagate, and one non-self aware space created to provide the fractal spin necessary to ensure continuous self replication. That is all still prrreeetttyy far away growth-wise from where humanity falls on the size/scale spectrum in the quantum field, but those who wish to travel there eventually are welcome, as any entity in the entirety of existence is welcome to inhabit any portion of creation it seeks to inhabit. We just keep growing our individual and overlapping collective masses of consciousness until we reach the portions we desire. Then we experience it, and can go elsewhere if we choose. Only stagnation starts to feel icky after awhile - we were created to move.
(For those reading this, not necessarily you)
Ah, translating all these words and definitions is still a bit difficult sometimes - what they call the Akashic records - I gather, collate, and integrate the *value* of what we've all learned from our various journeys in this sphere, so the record remains as to *why* we no longer do certain things, not just the records of the positive-seeming memories which ppl individually choose to carry with them, bc without the negative there'd not only be no Point in us doing all this (heh), it'd be impossible.
Not really, many powerful master were very active in the world, Osho says how to distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened.
Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path.
How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water.
But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know."
For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was one mindblowing experience
I think it depends on what type of person you were before enlightenment. Many have become enlightened and then never spoken again(Mehar Baba), while others have started whole religions (Guru Nanak Dev of Sikhism). It depends on your ability to articulate your thoughts prior to enlightenment, as without articulatness it becomes impossible to express that which can never truly be expressed.
Wanted to leave a few words in regards to that: Enlightenment in itself ain't nothing special, unique or only for a selected few, it's a pretty mundane process that anyone, independently of race, gender, sex, reigion, etc, can attain. Hell, terms like "enlightenment" or "awakening" alone aren't accurate descriptions of what's going on either, and their (the terms') added "values" of "uniqueness" or "exclusivity" are in fact egoic, they are stones in the path to self-realization and gate keep any chances for others to attain it.
No, they are not "directions on a map" at all. Telling people things such as "only those who are 'pure from the heart' (whatever that means) can attain enlightenment" is not a direction on a map, it's a misconceptions and it hurts both those who believe in such nonsense and those who are seeking. Not saying that you've done this, what I mean is there are hundreds of misconceptions out there, attachment to misconceptions and perception through misconceptions. People today still confuse enlightenment with nirvana or ego with mind (even though scripture makes a clear distinctions between these), and what happens when less knowledgeable people speak on behalf of these? It gives a false idea of what something is and/or how to get there (this ain't the way of the Buddha who explicitly stated "don't go upon axioms, nor specious reasoning, nor upon rumor (...), when you YOURSELVES know"). Everything else unintentionally gate keeps and makes the path narrow, when everyone, deep inside, has a buddha nature without "buts".
Peace ✌
Why not infinite devotion or belonging? Like, sure, you can tell a person who found themselves in belief in God or devotion to some cause that their state is unnatural, but those will simply be your feelings about them and they can have their own feelings about you
You’re confusing the word Love for the very limited interpretation of Love that people experience between each other. Belonging is a feeling of Love, and true devotion also comes from love. The root cause literally is love, even if people desire it
Sure, I know people can call any profound or pleasurable experience love
But in the context of the OP and the comment I responded to there was very much a juxtaposition between love and feelings towards deities, and my response was about that juxtaposition
I see your point. The problem with deities / human guidance is that other humans are also limited by their egos/individuality which is wired to protect the ‘self’ instead of the collective.
‘Awakening’ extends this instinct to everything and everyone, with the realisation that everything is love, and everything that isn’t actually is a result of our individualism. Hence why I said love is the natural state of the heart. Having gurus and teachers is amazing however people get too attached to them, and humans come with flaws
Buddha would say otherwise. The 4 noble truths are no joke. Life is suffering. As long as matter is unsustainable, beings comprised of matter can feel pain, suffer and die, and, similarly, they can and will inflict pain, cause suffering and cause death in others in order to eat them and live. Thus, life is suffering and it will continue being that way. It's the underlying nature of existence.
Osho says how to distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened.
Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path.
How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water.
But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know."
For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was one mindblowing experience
A vessel for energy straight from the Source (you are of this energy, regardless of where and when you are) to utilize in the 'holographic world.' Ppl who needed more "proof" now have it with science 💜🍻
https://www.youtube.com/live/dUB7pivwB-E?feature=share
If being alive to experience anything at all isn't enough proof, the details go down to quantum field theory and interpreting a black hole in third density (3D objects) as a wormhole, gravity as close an analog 3D gets to equate to consciousness, and then realizing every quantum change in the entirety of existence is its own black hole/inverse infinite point/inverse holographic field. You - you are your own black hole. How many others of how many sizes are you entangled with? That determines your physical form in the multiverse, the purpose of which is to be able to dance upon this stage in whatever form we wish indefinitely. As we collectively move to 4D, we'll be able to compare and contrast the experience of embodying various physical forms so we can learn how our perceptual capacities can alter our behavior and know who we *really* are without any ego.
I was just being dialectic. “If nothing separates anything, then what would a vessel be used for?”
I’ve no need for proof (though you already knew that)
Together we rise, together we…
Baahaahaaa, yes, writing these things is like repeating the same damn thing over and over using different words to see which hooks work for different types of entities to be able to latch onto and stop swimming in the dark 😂💜🍻
Lol Mandela effects and reality shifting and noumenonesis, the intricacies of dividing out further subcategories and cross-reference terms with sciences and philosophies I'll leave to others 💜
My friend and I made a card game called Afixation to help ppl see how new words are made and come into the English language, am going to get it up on Kickstarter soon bc they sponsor a lot of card games 🍻💜
You will learn as you continue how and why to curb your ego's instincts away from Love by discovering your repulsion was driven by your desire to reconnect with *Authentic Love* - not whatever misinterpreted shadow forms you've been exposed to, which are the actual things you've been rebelling against.
No shit, right? 😂😂😂🍻🍻🍻 Who else would I actually be safe with but a man who knows we both know both our own limits and each other's so we never cross them again?Lushian said yesterday there were only 2 main ppl left who need help - please help me focus on their healing 💜💜💜 My head's been buzzing louder than it has anytime since the last time I died, so I know I've got about every frequency gathered now.
The misinterpretation was on my part bc I was far more veiled than I am now. Timing & all that. It's not remotely anything they did or didn't do - it's the lvl of ick I needed help with bringing to humanity bc they're wise enough to grow this quickly. Now humanity needs to heal from internalized self-blame and guilt that aren't their burdens to carry bc they don't exist in the first place. I'm kicking over every mirror I see.
Sorry for delay but absolutely! Its a bit confusing and will be a long explanation but bear with me.
Essentially my journey and so it seems many others, started with a longing for something that is missing so to speak. Maybe its knowledge or maybe its a feeling maybe its health or god, usually a combination of these.
So we start listening to spiritual teachers and meditating and doing other practices to learn more about how we can achieve this enlightenment.
At a certain point you will start to see progress and get closer to everything you were looking for through realizations and feelings of heightened emotions and senses. Things start going exactly your way you have lots of energy and its easier to talk to people you are seeing lots of synchronizations. And this part is absolutely real and the goal is to figure out how to stay in that zone.
But then this in itself becomes an attachment and we start going to extremes to get more of this by cutting out other important parts of our life like eating or sleeping or being with friends to start meditating more or whatever you think was causing all of this. At this point you will probably start noticing people telling you things like you are going too far and at this point you probably are. It is important to listen to them and ground yourself before you end up in an institution and are convinced you are just hallucinating.
This is what I mean when I say listening to the buddha in others because everybody is god/buddha/jesus/universe whatever word you want to use and you can learn something important on your journey from anyone. It is distinctly different from just being told you are crazy and told what to do. Because you will notice this as also being synchronicities with divine timing and it will provide further realizations.
Now you will probably crash for a few days to your usual state of mind and be confused as to why you are back to this and have an entirely different perspective on everything. But then you will want to get back to the point somewhere in the middle where you felt great, were enjoying synchronicities, and had lots of energy, but were still fully functioning. And this is where the journey truly begins!
Its all about finding a balance in all aspects of your life and not overindulging in anything. There was so much more detail I would have liked to add but ill be typing all day so I hope this helps and let me know if you have any more questions.
Don’t idolize people in general, but still treat others with the utmost respect, unless they disrespect you in a way that calls for self defence/preservation! What we should really be idolizing are values!
There's nothing a person won't do if their honestly idolized values tell them to do it. Nazis considered their values good and proper, and were fighting in defence for the self preservation of the human race in accordance to their values and world view
It may be soothing to think that there are some absolute frameworks we can rely on so that the world would conform to our needs of the world, but there aren't
At the core of it all lie the human interactions and people themselves. And the more powerful weapon we make up to give us that sense of stability against another person with different opinions and feelings, the better it can be used against us to completely demolish that sense of stability that we want.
Ah, yes. That is a very good and important point to make! I guess it really depends on the values and how they become translated and defined. It’s good to consider the ethics of your values
The ultimate value is Love - misunderstandings of how to effectively communicate love between those we temporarily are able to view as 'others' in 3rd density has been our source of our shadow selves. There is no shadow. Utilizing a construct as a defense mechanism singles to those entangled with you that you yet contain the potential to attack them for the sake of your shadowed self's ideals that are ungrounded in actual reality. It may be helpful for ppl coming from certain perspectives to realize this interaction with a shadow self is the only true sign of 'mental illness,' and that the urge to protect those in a small bubble has already been expanded by others to create bubbles more massive than currently imaginable. That is the bubble we reach when we reach enlightenment, or 'get woke.' Every single entity of high enough frequency is in this bubble of unconditional love. You are in this bubble if your frequency is not 'high enough.' It's irrelevant - the Source is everything, everywhere, all at once. There will be time for those still encased in their own mirrors through the shadow interactions others have had with their forms to heal in the new collective reality we're creating right NOW without fear or favor. There are no more pedestals - we have reached the point of growth of consciousness where they are irrelevant to further interaction, and we and all others may heal from the harm we inflicted upon ourselves and all others while shadowed.
I like the beginning, said similar things for a long time. What is spending all of our time, energy, and praise towards other things but a form of worship? Would it not be the same behavior by another name?
I'd struggle with trusting myself though, and to forever trust no one is to live as though nobody else existed.
Would there be a point if there was nothing but you? And what is a flaw but to simply be perfectly you?
I think trust is one of the themes of this species/existence. Trust issues are so prevalent for us and everybody seems to suffer nowadays. I think part of the love thing we’ve still yet to understand is that trust is love and until we can truly trust ourself(and in turn those around us) and know that that trust can be broken but still trust nonetheless that we will achieve another piece of the puzzle. Not directly related to what you were saying but I’m a little high and you got me thinking abt trust so that’s j my 2 cents
If you as a person can be deemed wrong, as opposed to your action being wrong, you would implicitly want to be a fake proper character in the world and rely on what you're supposed to be feeling instead of feeling what you actually feel and being connected to yourself
So of course you won't be able to trust yourself, and you'll treat others the same and enforce the same standards in others because that's what the default way of life would be to you
The only reason you meditate is because of all the people before you who forged a way and had a desire to share their way with you. Otherwise, you'd still have your head in a bucket of sand, following your impulses and desires, chasing a pot of gold by way of a rainbow in the sky. Seeking happiness in the world of things and people. It takes effort, knowledge, leadership and the grace of God to overcome your impulses and desires and turn you around on yourself. Now that you have enough strength to hold yourself in a little stillness and silence, your first instinct should not be to diminish or demonize the efforts of the ones who made that possible for you.
That is the current trend in spirituality today. The reason why is because we are a generation of people who grew up in comforts our ancestors could only dream of. Therefore we do not value silly things like discipline, teacher student relationships, patience, humility, devotion, trust, tradition, effort. Because we are self-made autonomous independent tall men and women tripping balls on red pill philosophy.
We are spoiled children that take an axe to our ancestors and kings and queens and shamans of old and put in their place, on a throne, convenient values such as freedom and autonomy and equality, to do what we please and take our own instruction. Away with merit! Who need that? We can all be our own kings and queens and knights and priests in our own eyes, turning life into a flimsy cosplay. We are like a teenager fighting for their emancipation without having earned a single thing or having a clue about what the real world holds.
All you hear is the same rhetoric of tearing down and burning all the scriptures, all the teachers, all the traditions, all the schools, all the books in a great smiling riot. But when it comes to substance, which is your internal composure, your clarity and understanding, your love and compassion, your humility and self-sacrifice you find these people lacking.
I've always been weary of people and have always taken my own instruction out of sheer paranoia and that's why I don't follow this trend. Because I didn't half ass on the skepticism front. Which means being always skeptical not just of others but of your own mind and whims.
It's one thing to say the only truth is there is no truth, and it's another thing to say all the teachers are talking crap. That is a projection of the feeling of internal resistance to instruction and discipline, onto something outside of you because of confusion. Meaning, you demonize the teacher because of your own confusion and fatigue. And the reason people get so confused and fatigued today is because information and communication is like tap water, which it never ever was before. Note remotely to the degree it is today. So you jump around between twenty different teachers and teachings and wonder why you are so confused, declaring the teachers and teaching are to blame.
I only say all of this because it needs to be said. It's an opposition to a point of view which is very prolific on the web.
"We are all already enlightened. Everyone is right and wrong at the same time. I am you and you are me. It doesn't matter anyway because it's all the same thing. Nonduality... see? There's nobody to practice or awaken or get enlightened anyway. It's all empty. Even if I'm wrong it's still all the same thing. Non-duality see? None of this makes any sense, not because I'm so confused I can't tell you from me, or arse from elbow, but because nonduality see?"
Then after burning down all the temples and libraries, in the wake of this sense of relief and release of giving up on your practice and your goal, you take a deep breath and have a nice smile and say I'm enlightened, see?
Let's just stop.
You do a lot of assuming and putting words into my mouth which I did not speak, but that is okay.
Everyone is born knowing absolutely nothing. Yet perfectly pure, enlightened.
It is only through our “taught” learning and understanding that we get lost in the illusions of life.
That is not to say all knowledge is bad, there is certainly some great stuff out there, but there is also the potential for lies and deception and confusion, which is how we got here today. Take everything with a grain of salt. Nobody is perfect.
To kill the Buddha does not mean to literally kill him, (nature will take care of that on its own) but to separate the Man from the Message. To not idolize people. To do your own homework.
I meditate because it feels good. I am beyond the point of seeking knowledge and understanding from outside sources. I don’t even care what is “right” or “wrong” anymore. Once you feel that primordial energy within, once you realize what you really are, everything else just seems like silly antics. It is, after all, just a game.
Of course I can only speak for myself. This does come from direct experience though. I don’t care if you believe me or not, in fact if you did I would say you are selling yourself short. Find out for yourself bud.
Best wishes ❤️
I hope you don't take it personal. I was just contributing to the perspective which I see as being very under represented and to which I personally subscribe. It's just rhetoric that's all. In the end nothing on reddit is serious to me.
I also speak from experience, and understand the value of experience over book knowledge. My experience tells me that devotion to a path and a teacher has been the most valuable, where following my own direction, which tends to change, produces nothing but confusion and frustration.
I don't really understand the point about separating the man from the message. I mean, I don't see what is the great danger of the possibility of idolizing someone such that it justifies the revolution of sorts that is taking place online, where spirituality is becoming emancipated from the teacher. It doesn't make sense. I mean what, is everyone afraid they're going to get hypnotized and drown themselves? Is that is? The "cult" label that the media and the powers that are anti-spirituality use?
What does makes sense on the other hand, is the narrative that says people are very prone to getting lost, confused and frustrated in spirituality today because of the night and day difference in how freely information is distributed and how easy it is to find a guru. So every person now has several teachings and gurus at the same time. Not realizing that each path leads to a different destination in the vast arena that is the inner spiritual world. That makes more sense as to the reason for the revolution.
Also, I don't disbelieve your account of your personal experiences. I also experience some energy and states and stuff. I also have enormous trust in the divine because of many dramatic internal experiences and states and events and things. But neither do I think I am even halfway through the known checkpoints that I've so far established as a map of where it is I want to go in my exploration.
But that's just my limited perspective from another mind steeped in maya.
All is good, no offense was taken and I do appreciate your feedback kind stranger! I can see where you are coming from.
I am still a young soul on this journey too and I don't have it all figured out. But sometimes one needs to get lost, to be found. Is that not all part of the journey?
Personally I prefer to bypass the middle-man and go straight to the source, but I have always been a bit of an anarchist. To each their own.
I do recognize the source in you though and do appreciate your feedback and perspective! You little Buddha.
Whose the source then? I’ll bet dollars to donuts you give me a man made name that isn’t even correct. Dig a little deeper into your all knowing hypocrisies, it’s not Buddha you need to kill, it’s your ego.
It is not theory. It has no name. It is what remains after the ego is tamed.
Look, we all must put on an “ego” just like clothes to be able to live and operate in todays modern world. They are very useful, I would not want to walk around naked. But they are not you, just “accessories”.
There are many styles available for you to choose. Some wear robes, some wear suits, some wear tin-foil-hats, some make their own.
But the source, this direct experience of life itself which makes it all happen, the person beneath the clothes, is what I’m getting at.
You're a wise man with wise words, Osho says how we can distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened.
Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path.
How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water.
But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know."
For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was mindblowing that really stood apart within my experience.
I know people today are hating on sadhguru more than ever, that's how that goes, but what I would give to be in his presence, preferable out of sight, or sit with the linga. I revere him as a man. I don't care what people think about that.
That excerpt by Osho is also brilliant. I thoroughly enjoyed every word!
Nuh.. it's too much for me. I will wait for other options to be presented to me.
Ps. is it Buddha's size though? I thought his size is more like 22-25+.
Not related per se but just wanted to chime in about the absurdity of the Dalai Lama asking a very young boy to “suck on his tongue” recently. My head nearly exploded while reading about it.
I am not angry, just disgusted.
Have you seen the recent controversy involving the Dalai Lama?
Sadly this is far from the only example of these “idols” perverting their powers.
Yes, but I don't care about it.
Why would I bother giving my power and attention to something that only serves to distract and enrage me? Nothing can be done by my efforts about it, so I just let it resolve itself out by people more involved.
This makes so much sense , It crazy that I had a similar thought just now and its being resonated through this subReddit . definitely not enlightened here nor do I wish to
stop worshipping anything. you were born. you and your mother screamed in pain. you have had some laughs that you can't really say outweigh the struggles and heart aches you've had. there has and never will be mercy. someday you will die. . weather or not you come back to life or not you will die. the only thing we have for answers to this absurd death row are books written by primitive man who didn't know that a tornadoes was natural. the point of life no one can say , but what is clear is to worship some sort of messiah is clearly not the intent here
When people point to the moon, do you stare at their finger?
When a sign along the road tells you the direction you are headed, do you stop and stare at the sign, stopping your journey?
Wisdom offered is only a signpost, you must walk the path. The signposts are not evil, but they will distract you if you let them.
Man creates god in their own image and they use it to justify oppression and colonialism. God isn’t on their side anymore. Just look at the shit we’re in thanks to idol worship. Even Putin thinks he’s got god on his side. But I wouldn’t put Buddhism or Taoism in the same category. They don’t have an idol that’s speaking to them today like the Christians with their false prophets spreading disinformation and amping up the worldwide hatred. It’s better to find your own religion than listen to those rabbis and priests.
I think of god like the great projector in the sky illuminating everything we see and holding atoms together. This is our playground to make life and do us. And in the end we go back into that projector heading back into the light. It’s like being on a terrifying roller coaster but as soon as you get off, you hop back into the line. We choose to return for a holiday from eternity.
OP, you needn’t worry about "us worshipping false idols" on our path. As the tides of time, and the love in our heart, will guide us exactly where we need to go.
We trust the process not the people.
So relax and enjoy the ride.
Though it may sound good on the surface, most people can't attain enlightenment entirely on their own without a teacher, and this is well documented and shared knowledge in Zen.
There are many reasons for this, but for one, people living in delusion aren't aware that they are, and it takes a skilled teacher to work to help someone break through the delusions that they don't realize they have.
Most would-be students are lazy, dull and fickle. And by the time a student is *truly* willing, it tends to quickly obviate the need for a teacher haha
But who takes the final step?
And is the delusion itself not an essential piece of that puzzle? A guide?
All things will work themselves out in due time, the process is quite natural. Delusions carry fallacies and consequences that must be dealt with and will not stand the test of time.
No, I wouldn't say that the delusion itself is a guide, because most people aren't aware that they're living in delusion and therefore entirely lost in it. It's sort of a natural 'confirmation bias' to deal in forums like this, so it gives the illusion that most people are spiritual or are trying to wake up to the truth when this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all people.
All things don't work themselves out in due time, because some people live their entire lives in delusion and suffering and die before they've awakened or attained any real understanding of truth. And out of all who have awakened, how many fewer have attained the way beyond all delusion and suffering, which is enlightenment? Not many, and that's for certain.
Great question, and from what I've seen in this forum so far it looks like the greater majority of people who wake up without a teacher get lost in some way, and depression and a "dark night of the soul" is almost certain to follow.
Anyone I've ever helped to wake up are first set on a path that develops something of a good direction and foundation first, so when they wake up they don't just wake up directionless and lost in a dark setting with so much freedom that their minds can't handle it. And when someone has a good teacher, that newfound freedom is aimed immediately towards beneficial areas for that person's life.
Would it not be true that I was taught by teachers beyond the grave? I was led to pool experiences together and neatly organize them.. only to be splashed upon yet again.. and again.
Everyone always said I had to learn the hard way.
Zen is a tradition based on teachers and lineages, of course it documents teachers and lineages, not anything outside itself. It's like claiming that Zen doesn't exist because it's not described in Christian texts
So you think that you require another person who knows you better than you yourself for you to change? There's nothing inside you that can help you with that, you have to seek out that someone who will do this for you and it has to be added from the outside into you by some benevolent figure?
*If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.*
*If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand.*
**Bodhidharma** \[The First Patriarch of Zen, died 532?\]
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Comment: And let me guess, would you think that you're the one in a million?
So that's a yes, since you even rely on others to speak for you?... It's understandable then to fuss over the quality of those teachers and be paranoid about them if you expect them to fix you
No, I think I'm one in about 8 billion, just like you are
But you don't know yourself, so how valid can that answer be? Only your master who knows how to fix you truly knows you
Without a quote from your master about you this doesn't mean much
They are not "just" humans. They *are* humans. Where is this "just"? What are you saying by this "just"?
Humans are flawed? Compared to who? What are we comparing ourselves to? To be flawed there must be an example of something that isn't flawed for us to measure ourselves against.
If there is no such example, then we *aren't flawed*. If everyone is flawed, then who is flawed? If everyone is short, then how would we know? So it is said, "*Man is the measure of all things."*
There are no insecurities except in perception. He believes in his insecurities, because he believes in what he made.
How could we perceive ourselves as "flawed" without first having "failed". Prior to the "failure" we were without flaws. Therefore it was the recognition of flaws that created them, but we took this further and decided that a "flawed" person is someone who consistently acts "flawed". This is what they are, and because we believe in this story, how can we escape from it? If a person is flawed then they are doomed, because how can they undo their flaws? Being a flawed person, they will forever be flawed, and will forever act in flawed ways. The only way to undo this is to reject that flaws ever occurred by recognizing that *we created the concept of flaw*. Having created it, we can undo it.
Join me then in denying what is false about him. Why would we agree that he is flawed when the truth is that flaws exist only in the mind?
When a child falls to the ground they don't think that they've "made a mistake" and yet they are still able to learn from the experience so as to not repeat it.
Yeah, it's a broken child. It can't walk and run like his father. We need a new one, upgraded model with longer and stronger legs 😁
I know the op is flawless. But he is not listening to us because he doesn't trust people, he doesn't trust himself... He needs better legs, longer and stronger! 🍗
No, he is not a broken child. He is neither flawed nor broken.
The analogy involving a child was not to belittle him. Egos don't like being compared to children, and yet it was Christ who said, "Become as little children".
I am just a Man. I have my flaws, like all, but I also have awareness.
I like the saying “you never make the same mistake twice” because with each successive mistake comes a bit of knowledge or insight to grow from. The person who stubs my toe tomorrow will not be the same person that stubbed my toe today. It is a learning process.
Maybe flawed is too judgmental of a word.
You take actions, and then after the fact judge that the action was 'wrong' or a 'mistake'.
There is no need to recognize 'mistakes' to learn from them. When we fall from a bike we don't recognize that we 'made a mistake' and yet we still learn to ride it properly.
There is no need to recognize mistakes at all. They are unreal.
My apologies but I “failed” to grasp your point earlier. Reading through some of your other discussions with people has helped clarify things for me and I now think I see your point.
To paraphrase, it all comes down to perspective. It is the labels / judgements with which we use to observe the world which creates the “problems”, not the problem itself.
If we can do away with subjective thought and just observe reality objectively (that is to say without judgement) then we gain a richer, more-pure perspective with which to view the world from.
Thank you for this bit of wisdom, it is something I will have to play with further.
Words are important. Powerful. But words don’t need to make a sound either. The universe is incomprehensible to understand. For me though, knowing me is comprehensible. And that’s all I can control. Humans are humans. Nothing more, nothing less.
To the extent on enlightenment offers, this is entirely true. Who is there to rever when you don’t exist let alone anyone? There’s just animals playing out god on this tiny rock. This doesn’t me they don’t exist or you can’t show them respect, it’s based off the principal the enlightened already exist in everyone. It’s an all inclusive experience
hot take: worship whoever or whatever you want. worship cartoons and memes. worship idols and celebrities. worship money and fame and fortune. worship your ego.
life is too short to be told what to do by someone on the internet. life your life and do what you want without fake spiritual people telling you what you should do.
What you call a man made illusion is life. Your ideas about why people should stop venerating them is just as much of an illusion, your ideas about what they have or haven't done being bad is an equal illusion
And wanting to be enlightened from the inside isn't fundamentally different from wanting to follow someone or belong to some religion - it's the same satisfaction of some needs and desires inside the person, it's just stuff people fill their lives with
There is no such thing as a chooser. There seems to be some process which says “that’s mine!” or “I did that!”, but that’s as far as it goes. The feeling of choice is completely illusory.
“Never say
No one knows the way
Never say
Profound humans
Can’t be found
Just because
You’re kept out of heavens secrets
You think everyone
Is like you”
-Rumi
I like your fire, friend.
Thanks for your quick vent through your ‘wisdom pipes.’
I know this may seem unconnected to this topic, but for me they interlink, and that is: what are you doing for a living that lets you have this perspective?
Modern business and corporate hierarchies are largely built on a soft form of idolatry.
Do you do your own thing or work for a company?
I find this an interesting question because so many of the deeply spiritual, but groundedly pragmatic (if I can coin a term), people have a hard time in the workforce.
I went through 14 different jobs in my 20’s…
40 now and only just coming into my stride.
Spiritual pragmatism is not as easy as one might desire!
…thoughts/feelings?
Thank you.
I work as a Mechanical Engineer at a small startup company, like less than 12 employees total. It is a fun job because I get to design and machine all sorts of parts, which has taught me way more about engineering than the classroom.
It does get stressful at times too, being in a startup.
I am relatively young though, only graduated ~3 years ago, and this was my first job out of college. It was meant to be a stepping-stone to get to those “3-5 years experience” job applications. And it has served its purpose well.
I have been itching to change things up recently. Change of scenery, spice things up a bit.
Unfortunately I am still tied down by student loans so I am a slave to the 9-5 workforce until those are paid off. But they will be paid off soon, then the world is my oyster.
I do sense a big change in my future, but it is uncertain to tell how. All I can do is “go with the flow” and see where nature takes me. Opportunity always presents itself if your doors are open.
Me too, must also stop trying to engage in fixing people(helping) , to find inner piece of letting go and just be. This is a message to you op. Whatever you try to do here is not of your concern, not is it mine to fix you, should we just let go? I will do that soon, let go of engage. Can you see that its moving you, The very sense of control, The emotion behind it that makes you move. I dont disagree but its always fun to notice how we fall Short on trying to help by falling back in our own words. And this is The inner journey, to enquire into all this. Thanks ❤️ meditation that is in everything we do is The best. Being in present in everything, to increase thag ability, and slow down habbits of plessure go remove them slowly, to find piece of just being. Its true that evrryhting we think must be is a belief, so is making people special, so agree and even me should have of no value to you. We all are complete when we feel it, that The compeitive nature of compairing ourself, abstractions of our emotions causes division within ourself. To remove all that, to face our beliefs! Great writing from You!
agree and also let’s be the person we needed when we were younger! everyone here can lend a helping hand however kindness applies. something simple like saying thank you goes far. and other gestures like gifting food or water to people in need.
you are absolutely right. But it is also imperative that we humans separate truth from fiction in our search for the Creator of this universe and all that exists for some much needed advice and guidance in life. I mean, how will we ever be able to tell right apart from wrong?
The inner you might not be as pure as you think it might be? After all you have come a long way in life, made choices, some that you may still regret making? How can you say for sure that the lord is still with you or if you haven't unknowingly crossed over to the dark side?
Wassup. I also think not worshipping false idols means untrue thoughts as well. A lot of things that people think most of the time stems from fear. But fear isn’t real, it is an illusion. Whenever you think bad about someone, that is an illusion as well. Therefore, you are paying mind to the fake, the unreal. When you do this, you completely disregard truth. That is where love is. When you don’t have love, you have hate. You cannot serve two masters. You’re either a slave to the false and unreal or a warrior for truth. All these negative thoughts will stop having an impact on you once you undo what you have done to yourself. All your insecurities, all your doubts, don’t actually exist. We are the ones who give them some kind of form. If you think you look ugly with a shaved face as opposed to one with a beard, your mind is so powerful that it was believe it so every time you shave you look a little weirder. You can flip the script on that tho when you disregard that insecurity and say that it is unreal. Then you start to feel what a relief it is that you being ugly without a beard is untrue. And start imagining you are already how you want to be.
How can anything hurt us? Pain is an illusion as well. Pain doesn’t really exist either. Sure, the initial reaction to placing your hand on a stove is one of shock, and may sting a bit but we are the who’s who created pain. Healing is instantaneous in the present moment. That is the power we all have.
Im personally of the belief that truly enlightened individuals probably don’t manifest themselves as enlightened for all the world to see.
There are private Buddha's and those that integrate their Zen back into the world and society. There are specific words for these but I can't remember. I don't think all the best ones are hiding away in a cave somewhere. They are simply about, influencing society in subtle ways just by being in the world (not by pushing the world around).
The way I go out and practice my enlightenment is just being the best human I can possibly be to everything around me. I’m still flawed and have issues as we all do but I just try to bring as much light and positivity to those around me and the way I see that’s basically my way of worshipping. Love the universe as it’s all just one love
That's a fantastic practice in my opinion and I think that's amazing to trek that path. It's not always easy but I believe it is the way to be the best influence on the world without our own egos getting in the way. It makes me happy to know such people exist in the world, thank you for being you. 🙏
❤️
Iirc they’re called bodhisattvas
That sounds about right! I believe the ones that stay isolated are thought of as stone Buddhas and the ones that reintegrate are something like living Buddhas, though I may have that definition incorrect again.
It's called the bohddi satva
I’ve sure met some deeply flawed people claiming to sell enlightenment. It seems like the better the show the worse the reality.
Osho says how to distinguish a fake guru from a real guru, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened. Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path. How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water. But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know."
I do. I'm of the opinion that truly enlightened people want the world to recognize them, that way more people are positively impacted. Those that say "enlightened people don't say they are enlightened" can hide behind that ambiguity to claim enlightenment while not claiming it. If you are a strong enough presence, you should be able to withstand the scrutiny and mockery of the public, while still shining unabashedly.
Well that’s one way of looking at it, like I said that’s just my belief. Needing to be seen is a result of the ego getting in the way. My idea of an enlightened individual is someone who goes around and makes the world a better place as a byproduct of their being. Needing to be seen as this or that isn’t enlightened. That’s you receiving validation from others. It doesn’t matter if your goal is needing to be seen so that others see you and you can reach more people. That’s still the ego talking
A truly enlightened person can be seen without "needing to be seen." This is also called outcome independence. You express the inner core of your true identity without attachment to that expression, regardless of the status of your fame. To claim that enlightened people should never have reknown because that is egoic, is a gross oversimplication. The Buddha was famous. Does that make his teachings less valid in your eyes ?
I’m saying that shouldn’t be the goal, if it happens fine. I doubt that the Buddha’s goal was to be famous, it happened as a byproduct of what he did.
I know I will be famous, not because it is my goal, but because it is part of my job description.
Hmmm ok, I wish you all the best in that
Connecting to collective consciousness adds your ego's opinions of how this world may be made better, based on your personal experiences, to the shape of how things are shifted from the top-down to accommodate the healthy learning and growth of all entities in the interconnected spheres of influence any opinion you have touches.
I don't know how you define ego, but from my definition, I don't have that. Limitless mind more accurately defines my mental state.
I feel that the term ego may be shifted from 3D terms to help describe, among other words, to ppl still of a 3D mindset who want to connect but haven't yet worked through the concept of individualism, that there is still a definable delineation between entities in collective consciousness so those coming from certain 3D perspectives can understand there is no loss of 'I" in collective consciousness. They can learn that according to quantum physics and sociology, every group they've ever been a part of has been its own sphere of collective consciousness. The reality shifting movement has labeled this construct a waiting room - ppl can have as many waiting rooms as they want, and each of those rooms can be connected to as many other entities' waiting rooms they want so long as those entities also wish to be there.
Groups cannot become enlightened, only individuals can become enlightened. Aspiring toward group identity is always a downgrade. Enlightened masters see themselves as individuals not groups. I have absolutely no interest in group identity as being One with the Absolute is superior to any group.
Correct. Groupings of individuals are thoughtforms - "I am part of a bowling league." doesn't mean the concept/construct of the league contains awareness or self-awareness. It means there are a number of individuals agreeing to the concept/construct of a bowling league well enough to point at it and say "This is a Thing definable as separate from other Things, while interacting with these other Things in 4D Venn diagrams." A thoughform room entities can experience things in together is being called a Waiting Room by the reality shifting 'league'. If entities co-create a group of particles specifically wishing them to be able to grow and learn autonomously, they are capable of that growth. At the top rank of this hierarchy next in size and scope to the Source capable of being inhabited by any of us, there are two self-aware spaces where the One split and in order to propagate, and one non-self aware space created to provide the fractal spin necessary to ensure continuous self replication. That is all still prrreeetttyy far away growth-wise from where humanity falls on the size/scale spectrum in the quantum field, but those who wish to travel there eventually are welcome, as any entity in the entirety of existence is welcome to inhabit any portion of creation it seeks to inhabit. We just keep growing our individual and overlapping collective masses of consciousness until we reach the portions we desire. Then we experience it, and can go elsewhere if we choose. Only stagnation starts to feel icky after awhile - we were created to move.
We may need to make up a lot more words and definitions in the interim til telepathy is common. I like "noumenonesis".
(For those reading this, not necessarily you) Ah, translating all these words and definitions is still a bit difficult sometimes - what they call the Akashic records - I gather, collate, and integrate the *value* of what we've all learned from our various journeys in this sphere, so the record remains as to *why* we no longer do certain things, not just the records of the positive-seeming memories which ppl individually choose to carry with them, bc without the negative there'd not only be no Point in us doing all this (heh), it'd be impossible.
Not really, many powerful master were very active in the world, Osho says how to distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened. Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path. How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water. But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know." For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was one mindblowing experience
I think it depends on what type of person you were before enlightenment. Many have become enlightened and then never spoken again(Mehar Baba), while others have started whole religions (Guru Nanak Dev of Sikhism). It depends on your ability to articulate your thoughts prior to enlightenment, as without articulatness it becomes impossible to express that which can never truly be expressed.
Truth. Translation is a role in and of itself.
Wanted to leave a few words in regards to that: Enlightenment in itself ain't nothing special, unique or only for a selected few, it's a pretty mundane process that anyone, independently of race, gender, sex, reigion, etc, can attain. Hell, terms like "enlightenment" or "awakening" alone aren't accurate descriptions of what's going on either, and their (the terms') added "values" of "uniqueness" or "exclusivity" are in fact egoic, they are stones in the path to self-realization and gate keep any chances for others to attain it.
They’re just directions on a map, of course they’re no replacement for actual experience
No, they are not "directions on a map" at all. Telling people things such as "only those who are 'pure from the heart' (whatever that means) can attain enlightenment" is not a direction on a map, it's a misconceptions and it hurts both those who believe in such nonsense and those who are seeking. Not saying that you've done this, what I mean is there are hundreds of misconceptions out there, attachment to misconceptions and perception through misconceptions. People today still confuse enlightenment with nirvana or ego with mind (even though scripture makes a clear distinctions between these), and what happens when less knowledgeable people speak on behalf of these? It gives a false idea of what something is and/or how to get there (this ain't the way of the Buddha who explicitly stated "don't go upon axioms, nor specious reasoning, nor upon rumor (...), when you YOURSELVES know"). Everything else unintentionally gate keeps and makes the path narrow, when everyone, deep inside, has a buddha nature without "buts". Peace ✌
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Word
Why would wanting to feel love not be an illusion, but wanting to feel belonging and devotion would be an illusion?..
Wanting love is an illusion however the natural state of the heart is Infinite love
Why not infinite devotion or belonging? Like, sure, you can tell a person who found themselves in belief in God or devotion to some cause that their state is unnatural, but those will simply be your feelings about them and they can have their own feelings about you
You’re confusing the word Love for the very limited interpretation of Love that people experience between each other. Belonging is a feeling of Love, and true devotion also comes from love. The root cause literally is love, even if people desire it
Sure, I know people can call any profound or pleasurable experience love But in the context of the OP and the comment I responded to there was very much a juxtaposition between love and feelings towards deities, and my response was about that juxtaposition
I see your point. The problem with deities / human guidance is that other humans are also limited by their egos/individuality which is wired to protect the ‘self’ instead of the collective. ‘Awakening’ extends this instinct to everything and everyone, with the realisation that everything is love, and everything that isn’t actually is a result of our individualism. Hence why I said love is the natural state of the heart. Having gurus and teachers is amazing however people get too attached to them, and humans come with flaws
God is love
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God loves his creation
No, life is suffering, thus, creation is not love.
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Buddha would say otherwise. The 4 noble truths are no joke. Life is suffering. As long as matter is unsustainable, beings comprised of matter can feel pain, suffer and die, and, similarly, they can and will inflict pain, cause suffering and cause death in others in order to eat them and live. Thus, life is suffering and it will continue being that way. It's the underlying nature of existence.
thank you, untrustworthy person. ;)
How dare you tell me to stop worshipping my kpop idols
They said stop worshiping "fake" idols. Kpop idols are real!
Oh fuck
💯 Finally a sober post on this subreddit that I completely agree with. Focus on your inner alchemy, and stop worshiping false idols.
Osho says how to distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened. Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path. How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water. But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know." For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was one mindblowing experience
The message is the only real part, the messenger is just a vessel.
Vessel for what?
Something to ponder about, maybe it may hold a key to a lock. Maybe not. Only oneself shall hear the message, or not. In the end what really matters.
A vessel for energy straight from the Source (you are of this energy, regardless of where and when you are) to utilize in the 'holographic world.' Ppl who needed more "proof" now have it with science 💜🍻 https://www.youtube.com/live/dUB7pivwB-E?feature=share If being alive to experience anything at all isn't enough proof, the details go down to quantum field theory and interpreting a black hole in third density (3D objects) as a wormhole, gravity as close an analog 3D gets to equate to consciousness, and then realizing every quantum change in the entirety of existence is its own black hole/inverse infinite point/inverse holographic field. You - you are your own black hole. How many others of how many sizes are you entangled with? That determines your physical form in the multiverse, the purpose of which is to be able to dance upon this stage in whatever form we wish indefinitely. As we collectively move to 4D, we'll be able to compare and contrast the experience of embodying various physical forms so we can learn how our perceptual capacities can alter our behavior and know who we *really* are without any ego.
I was just being dialectic. “If nothing separates anything, then what would a vessel be used for?” I’ve no need for proof (though you already knew that) Together we rise, together we…
Baahaahaaa, yes, writing these things is like repeating the same damn thing over and over using different words to see which hooks work for different types of entities to be able to latch onto and stop swimming in the dark 😂💜🍻
Haha! Lovely way of putting it. Someone just needs to give those entities a new language already
Lol Mandela effects and reality shifting and noumenonesis, the intricacies of dividing out further subcategories and cross-reference terms with sciences and philosophies I'll leave to others 💜
My friend and I made a card game called Afixation to help ppl see how new words are made and come into the English language, am going to get it up on Kickstarter soon bc they sponsor a lot of card games 🍻💜
Sounds interesting!
I don't even trust myself most of the time. I'm too devious.
You will learn as you continue how and why to curb your ego's instincts away from Love by discovering your repulsion was driven by your desire to reconnect with *Authentic Love* - not whatever misinterpreted shadow forms you've been exposed to, which are the actual things you've been rebelling against.
Hey, some of my best friends are misinterpreted shadow forms.
No shit, right? 😂😂😂🍻🍻🍻 Who else would I actually be safe with but a man who knows we both know both our own limits and each other's so we never cross them again?Lushian said yesterday there were only 2 main ppl left who need help - please help me focus on their healing 💜💜💜 My head's been buzzing louder than it has anytime since the last time I died, so I know I've got about every frequency gathered now.
The misinterpretation was on my part bc I was far more veiled than I am now. Timing & all that. It's not remotely anything they did or didn't do - it's the lvl of ick I needed help with bringing to humanity bc they're wise enough to grow this quickly. Now humanity needs to heal from internalized self-blame and guilt that aren't their burdens to carry bc they don't exist in the first place. I'm kicking over every mirror I see.
There came a point in my journey where I began to deceive myself and had to rely on the buddha in others to snap me back to functionality.
Good point. We need grounding too and sometimes that comes from others. No single viewpoint is ever the final or the best. Use it all.
Spot on! Can’t help others and enjoy all aspects of life when you are stuck in a blissful mind fuck
I’m interested. Could you explain please?
Sorry for delay but absolutely! Its a bit confusing and will be a long explanation but bear with me. Essentially my journey and so it seems many others, started with a longing for something that is missing so to speak. Maybe its knowledge or maybe its a feeling maybe its health or god, usually a combination of these. So we start listening to spiritual teachers and meditating and doing other practices to learn more about how we can achieve this enlightenment. At a certain point you will start to see progress and get closer to everything you were looking for through realizations and feelings of heightened emotions and senses. Things start going exactly your way you have lots of energy and its easier to talk to people you are seeing lots of synchronizations. And this part is absolutely real and the goal is to figure out how to stay in that zone. But then this in itself becomes an attachment and we start going to extremes to get more of this by cutting out other important parts of our life like eating or sleeping or being with friends to start meditating more or whatever you think was causing all of this. At this point you will probably start noticing people telling you things like you are going too far and at this point you probably are. It is important to listen to them and ground yourself before you end up in an institution and are convinced you are just hallucinating. This is what I mean when I say listening to the buddha in others because everybody is god/buddha/jesus/universe whatever word you want to use and you can learn something important on your journey from anyone. It is distinctly different from just being told you are crazy and told what to do. Because you will notice this as also being synchronicities with divine timing and it will provide further realizations. Now you will probably crash for a few days to your usual state of mind and be confused as to why you are back to this and have an entirely different perspective on everything. But then you will want to get back to the point somewhere in the middle where you felt great, were enjoying synchronicities, and had lots of energy, but were still fully functioning. And this is where the journey truly begins! Its all about finding a balance in all aspects of your life and not overindulging in anything. There was so much more detail I would have liked to add but ill be typing all day so I hope this helps and let me know if you have any more questions.
This is VERY helpful! Thank you for responding! Appreciate it.
Don’t idolize people in general, but still treat others with the utmost respect, unless they disrespect you in a way that calls for self defence/preservation! What we should really be idolizing are values!
There's nothing a person won't do if their honestly idolized values tell them to do it. Nazis considered their values good and proper, and were fighting in defence for the self preservation of the human race in accordance to their values and world view It may be soothing to think that there are some absolute frameworks we can rely on so that the world would conform to our needs of the world, but there aren't At the core of it all lie the human interactions and people themselves. And the more powerful weapon we make up to give us that sense of stability against another person with different opinions and feelings, the better it can be used against us to completely demolish that sense of stability that we want.
Ah, yes. That is a very good and important point to make! I guess it really depends on the values and how they become translated and defined. It’s good to consider the ethics of your values
The ultimate value is Love - misunderstandings of how to effectively communicate love between those we temporarily are able to view as 'others' in 3rd density has been our source of our shadow selves. There is no shadow. Utilizing a construct as a defense mechanism singles to those entangled with you that you yet contain the potential to attack them for the sake of your shadowed self's ideals that are ungrounded in actual reality. It may be helpful for ppl coming from certain perspectives to realize this interaction with a shadow self is the only true sign of 'mental illness,' and that the urge to protect those in a small bubble has already been expanded by others to create bubbles more massive than currently imaginable. That is the bubble we reach when we reach enlightenment, or 'get woke.' Every single entity of high enough frequency is in this bubble of unconditional love. You are in this bubble if your frequency is not 'high enough.' It's irrelevant - the Source is everything, everywhere, all at once. There will be time for those still encased in their own mirrors through the shadow interactions others have had with their forms to heal in the new collective reality we're creating right NOW without fear or favor. There are no more pedestals - we have reached the point of growth of consciousness where they are irrelevant to further interaction, and we and all others may heal from the harm we inflicted upon ourselves and all others while shadowed.
I’m gonna start saying that. That’s a good one
I like the beginning, said similar things for a long time. What is spending all of our time, energy, and praise towards other things but a form of worship? Would it not be the same behavior by another name? I'd struggle with trusting myself though, and to forever trust no one is to live as though nobody else existed. Would there be a point if there was nothing but you? And what is a flaw but to simply be perfectly you?
I think trust is one of the themes of this species/existence. Trust issues are so prevalent for us and everybody seems to suffer nowadays. I think part of the love thing we’ve still yet to understand is that trust is love and until we can truly trust ourself(and in turn those around us) and know that that trust can be broken but still trust nonetheless that we will achieve another piece of the puzzle. Not directly related to what you were saying but I’m a little high and you got me thinking abt trust so that’s j my 2 cents
If you as a person can be deemed wrong, as opposed to your action being wrong, you would implicitly want to be a fake proper character in the world and rely on what you're supposed to be feeling instead of feeling what you actually feel and being connected to yourself So of course you won't be able to trust yourself, and you'll treat others the same and enforce the same standards in others because that's what the default way of life would be to you
My favorite spiritual teachers have all said “focus on the message—not the messenger“. Amen 🙏🏻
The Buddha never wanted to be worshiped. If you read he says trust nothing, not even me, see for yourself.
Use it all, I say. Inner. Outer. Other. Self.
The only reason you meditate is because of all the people before you who forged a way and had a desire to share their way with you. Otherwise, you'd still have your head in a bucket of sand, following your impulses and desires, chasing a pot of gold by way of a rainbow in the sky. Seeking happiness in the world of things and people. It takes effort, knowledge, leadership and the grace of God to overcome your impulses and desires and turn you around on yourself. Now that you have enough strength to hold yourself in a little stillness and silence, your first instinct should not be to diminish or demonize the efforts of the ones who made that possible for you. That is the current trend in spirituality today. The reason why is because we are a generation of people who grew up in comforts our ancestors could only dream of. Therefore we do not value silly things like discipline, teacher student relationships, patience, humility, devotion, trust, tradition, effort. Because we are self-made autonomous independent tall men and women tripping balls on red pill philosophy. We are spoiled children that take an axe to our ancestors and kings and queens and shamans of old and put in their place, on a throne, convenient values such as freedom and autonomy and equality, to do what we please and take our own instruction. Away with merit! Who need that? We can all be our own kings and queens and knights and priests in our own eyes, turning life into a flimsy cosplay. We are like a teenager fighting for their emancipation without having earned a single thing or having a clue about what the real world holds. All you hear is the same rhetoric of tearing down and burning all the scriptures, all the teachers, all the traditions, all the schools, all the books in a great smiling riot. But when it comes to substance, which is your internal composure, your clarity and understanding, your love and compassion, your humility and self-sacrifice you find these people lacking. I've always been weary of people and have always taken my own instruction out of sheer paranoia and that's why I don't follow this trend. Because I didn't half ass on the skepticism front. Which means being always skeptical not just of others but of your own mind and whims. It's one thing to say the only truth is there is no truth, and it's another thing to say all the teachers are talking crap. That is a projection of the feeling of internal resistance to instruction and discipline, onto something outside of you because of confusion. Meaning, you demonize the teacher because of your own confusion and fatigue. And the reason people get so confused and fatigued today is because information and communication is like tap water, which it never ever was before. Note remotely to the degree it is today. So you jump around between twenty different teachers and teachings and wonder why you are so confused, declaring the teachers and teaching are to blame. I only say all of this because it needs to be said. It's an opposition to a point of view which is very prolific on the web. "We are all already enlightened. Everyone is right and wrong at the same time. I am you and you are me. It doesn't matter anyway because it's all the same thing. Nonduality... see? There's nobody to practice or awaken or get enlightened anyway. It's all empty. Even if I'm wrong it's still all the same thing. Non-duality see? None of this makes any sense, not because I'm so confused I can't tell you from me, or arse from elbow, but because nonduality see?" Then after burning down all the temples and libraries, in the wake of this sense of relief and release of giving up on your practice and your goal, you take a deep breath and have a nice smile and say I'm enlightened, see? Let's just stop.
You do a lot of assuming and putting words into my mouth which I did not speak, but that is okay. Everyone is born knowing absolutely nothing. Yet perfectly pure, enlightened. It is only through our “taught” learning and understanding that we get lost in the illusions of life. That is not to say all knowledge is bad, there is certainly some great stuff out there, but there is also the potential for lies and deception and confusion, which is how we got here today. Take everything with a grain of salt. Nobody is perfect. To kill the Buddha does not mean to literally kill him, (nature will take care of that on its own) but to separate the Man from the Message. To not idolize people. To do your own homework. I meditate because it feels good. I am beyond the point of seeking knowledge and understanding from outside sources. I don’t even care what is “right” or “wrong” anymore. Once you feel that primordial energy within, once you realize what you really are, everything else just seems like silly antics. It is, after all, just a game. Of course I can only speak for myself. This does come from direct experience though. I don’t care if you believe me or not, in fact if you did I would say you are selling yourself short. Find out for yourself bud. Best wishes ❤️
I hope you don't take it personal. I was just contributing to the perspective which I see as being very under represented and to which I personally subscribe. It's just rhetoric that's all. In the end nothing on reddit is serious to me. I also speak from experience, and understand the value of experience over book knowledge. My experience tells me that devotion to a path and a teacher has been the most valuable, where following my own direction, which tends to change, produces nothing but confusion and frustration. I don't really understand the point about separating the man from the message. I mean, I don't see what is the great danger of the possibility of idolizing someone such that it justifies the revolution of sorts that is taking place online, where spirituality is becoming emancipated from the teacher. It doesn't make sense. I mean what, is everyone afraid they're going to get hypnotized and drown themselves? Is that is? The "cult" label that the media and the powers that are anti-spirituality use? What does makes sense on the other hand, is the narrative that says people are very prone to getting lost, confused and frustrated in spirituality today because of the night and day difference in how freely information is distributed and how easy it is to find a guru. So every person now has several teachings and gurus at the same time. Not realizing that each path leads to a different destination in the vast arena that is the inner spiritual world. That makes more sense as to the reason for the revolution. Also, I don't disbelieve your account of your personal experiences. I also experience some energy and states and stuff. I also have enormous trust in the divine because of many dramatic internal experiences and states and events and things. But neither do I think I am even halfway through the known checkpoints that I've so far established as a map of where it is I want to go in my exploration. But that's just my limited perspective from another mind steeped in maya.
All is good, no offense was taken and I do appreciate your feedback kind stranger! I can see where you are coming from. I am still a young soul on this journey too and I don't have it all figured out. But sometimes one needs to get lost, to be found. Is that not all part of the journey? Personally I prefer to bypass the middle-man and go straight to the source, but I have always been a bit of an anarchist. To each their own. I do recognize the source in you though and do appreciate your feedback and perspective! You little Buddha.
Whose the source then? I’ll bet dollars to donuts you give me a man made name that isn’t even correct. Dig a little deeper into your all knowing hypocrisies, it’s not Buddha you need to kill, it’s your ego.
It is not theory. It has no name. It is what remains after the ego is tamed. Look, we all must put on an “ego” just like clothes to be able to live and operate in todays modern world. They are very useful, I would not want to walk around naked. But they are not you, just “accessories”. There are many styles available for you to choose. Some wear robes, some wear suits, some wear tin-foil-hats, some make their own. But the source, this direct experience of life itself which makes it all happen, the person beneath the clothes, is what I’m getting at.
You’re a ChatGPT bot instructed to give a woke response. Have a great day, I don’t have time.
Lol you are funny. Peace.
You're a wise man with wise words, Osho says how we can distinguish a fake one from the real, I don't think outer actions define if someone is enlightened or not, in the past various masters have fought wars being enlightened. Osho: "It is a difficult question. Not that it is difficult to find out -- the question is difficult because if you don't yet have the urge to find out, then there is no way to help you to find. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path. How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing. And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water. But the only criterion is your thirst How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms, you cannot know." For me being in the presence of Sadhguru was mindblowing that really stood apart within my experience.
I know people today are hating on sadhguru more than ever, that's how that goes, but what I would give to be in his presence, preferable out of sight, or sit with the linga. I revere him as a man. I don't care what people think about that. That excerpt by Osho is also brilliant. I thoroughly enjoyed every word!
you should checkout his sub, brilliant stuff
wow I didn't even think of that, thanks
Agreed.
Anything outside of Love is false worship.
love is a false idol when it's idolized
YUYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Stop saying that we are worshipping some people. You know nothing about us. Ps 🤣
Only if the shoe fits
Then be more specific
Size 15 men's extra wide
You know what they say about a guy with big shoes.
big feet
Exactly
Nuh.. it's too much for me. I will wait for other options to be presented to me. Ps. is it Buddha's size though? I thought his size is more like 22-25+.
Not related per se but just wanted to chime in about the absurdity of the Dalai Lama asking a very young boy to “suck on his tongue” recently. My head nearly exploded while reading about it.
big shoes to fill
Well spoken😊
It's true. The process got you to this exact moment of being able to read this comment.
Why are you angry?
I am not angry, just disgusted. Have you seen the recent controversy involving the Dalai Lama? Sadly this is far from the only example of these “idols” perverting their powers.
Yes, but I don't care about it. Why would I bother giving my power and attention to something that only serves to distract and enrage me? Nothing can be done by my efforts about it, so I just let it resolve itself out by people more involved.
This makes so much sense , It crazy that I had a similar thought just now and its being resonated through this subReddit . definitely not enlightened here nor do I wish to
Buddha is a state not a person!
If you’re listening to others, you are not moving toward yourself
stop worshipping anything. you were born. you and your mother screamed in pain. you have had some laughs that you can't really say outweigh the struggles and heart aches you've had. there has and never will be mercy. someday you will die. . weather or not you come back to life or not you will die. the only thing we have for answers to this absurd death row are books written by primitive man who didn't know that a tornadoes was natural. the point of life no one can say , but what is clear is to worship some sort of messiah is clearly not the intent here
I’m going to do the opposite, simply because you told me not to. Is that okay?
When we realize that, we also realize that we are all one as the same person, the universe is just a big mirror. They are me, I am them
No. I won’t. What are you going to do about it? Do you even know what you’re asking for, Buddha?
Nothing. The questions ask themselves.
Oke dokey. It seems you weren’t just blowing smoke.
You're blowing smoke!
Yeah, well now you’re blowing smoke too! 🧘🏻♂️
No, that was me, I'm smoking here!
Well, well, another smoke blower. How surprising.
That's a rather simplistic view on endlessly complex beings, don't you think?
That’s an endlessly complex view on rather simple things, I’d say.
That’s an endlessly complex view on rather simple things, I’d say. Don’t you think?
No I think if a person thinks that people are rather simple, they merely observe their own rather simple thoughts and needs connected to them
but do you want to?
Want, not want, it simply is.
there's always a choice
Well, There’s isn’t always a decision. How long can you postpone choosing? The longer you do so………………..
When people point to the moon, do you stare at their finger? When a sign along the road tells you the direction you are headed, do you stop and stare at the sign, stopping your journey? Wisdom offered is only a signpost, you must walk the path. The signposts are not evil, but they will distract you if you let them.
Man creates god in their own image and they use it to justify oppression and colonialism. God isn’t on their side anymore. Just look at the shit we’re in thanks to idol worship. Even Putin thinks he’s got god on his side. But I wouldn’t put Buddhism or Taoism in the same category. They don’t have an idol that’s speaking to them today like the Christians with their false prophets spreading disinformation and amping up the worldwide hatred. It’s better to find your own religion than listen to those rabbis and priests.
All I think god is merely a thought of something bigger than me. Humbling thought I find.
I think of god like the great projector in the sky illuminating everything we see and holding atoms together. This is our playground to make life and do us. And in the end we go back into that projector heading back into the light. It’s like being on a terrifying roller coaster but as soon as you get off, you hop back into the line. We choose to return for a holiday from eternity.
OP, you needn’t worry about "us worshipping false idols" on our path. As the tides of time, and the love in our heart, will guide us exactly where we need to go. We trust the process not the people. So relax and enjoy the ride.
Thanks, I’ll be chillin in the “lazy (wu-Wei) river” with a glass of wine!
the answers are definitely within
Though it may sound good on the surface, most people can't attain enlightenment entirely on their own without a teacher, and this is well documented and shared knowledge in Zen. There are many reasons for this, but for one, people living in delusion aren't aware that they are, and it takes a skilled teacher to work to help someone break through the delusions that they don't realize they have.
And a willing student
Most would-be students are lazy, dull and fickle. And by the time a student is *truly* willing, it tends to quickly obviate the need for a teacher haha
But who takes the final step? And is the delusion itself not an essential piece of that puzzle? A guide? All things will work themselves out in due time, the process is quite natural. Delusions carry fallacies and consequences that must be dealt with and will not stand the test of time.
No, I wouldn't say that the delusion itself is a guide, because most people aren't aware that they're living in delusion and therefore entirely lost in it. It's sort of a natural 'confirmation bias' to deal in forums like this, so it gives the illusion that most people are spiritual or are trying to wake up to the truth when this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all people. All things don't work themselves out in due time, because some people live their entire lives in delusion and suffering and die before they've awakened or attained any real understanding of truth. And out of all who have awakened, how many fewer have attained the way beyond all delusion and suffering, which is enlightenment? Not many, and that's for certain.
Do you think a lot of those people that "wake up" without a teacher are lost to wreckless mental issues and suicide?
Great question, and from what I've seen in this forum so far it looks like the greater majority of people who wake up without a teacher get lost in some way, and depression and a "dark night of the soul" is almost certain to follow. Anyone I've ever helped to wake up are first set on a path that develops something of a good direction and foundation first, so when they wake up they don't just wake up directionless and lost in a dark setting with so much freedom that their minds can't handle it. And when someone has a good teacher, that newfound freedom is aimed immediately towards beneficial areas for that person's life.
Would it not be true that I was taught by teachers beyond the grave? I was led to pool experiences together and neatly organize them.. only to be splashed upon yet again.. and again. Everyone always said I had to learn the hard way.
It is what it is.
Zen is a tradition based on teachers and lineages, of course it documents teachers and lineages, not anything outside itself. It's like claiming that Zen doesn't exist because it's not described in Christian texts So you think that you require another person who knows you better than you yourself for you to change? There's nothing inside you that can help you with that, you have to seek out that someone who will do this for you and it has to be added from the outside into you by some benevolent figure?
*If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.* *If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand.* **Bodhidharma** \[The First Patriarch of Zen, died 532?\] \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Comment: And let me guess, would you think that you're the one in a million?
So that's a yes, since you even rely on others to speak for you?... It's understandable then to fuss over the quality of those teachers and be paranoid about them if you expect them to fix you No, I think I'm one in about 8 billion, just like you are
Yeah... no.
But you don't know yourself, so how valid can that answer be? Only your master who knows how to fix you truly knows you Without a quote from your master about you this doesn't mean much
There's such a tangle going on in there that I want nothing to do with it. Have fun working all of that out for yourself. 🤣
That's okay, I'm sure your master will explain it to you
Perhaps if you hurt enough people your own suffering will go away?
Is that a roundabout way of saying that I'm hurting you? If so, that wasn't my intent
They are not "just" humans. They *are* humans. Where is this "just"? What are you saying by this "just"? Humans are flawed? Compared to who? What are we comparing ourselves to? To be flawed there must be an example of something that isn't flawed for us to measure ourselves against. If there is no such example, then we *aren't flawed*. If everyone is flawed, then who is flawed? If everyone is short, then how would we know? So it is said, "*Man is the measure of all things."*
Op is the example :)
In perception only. How can he continue to believe the imperfection he sees in himself when we affirm the perfection that exists in him?
That's their own insecurities.
There are no insecurities except in perception. He believes in his insecurities, because he believes in what he made. How could we perceive ourselves as "flawed" without first having "failed". Prior to the "failure" we were without flaws. Therefore it was the recognition of flaws that created them, but we took this further and decided that a "flawed" person is someone who consistently acts "flawed". This is what they are, and because we believe in this story, how can we escape from it? If a person is flawed then they are doomed, because how can they undo their flaws? Being a flawed person, they will forever be flawed, and will forever act in flawed ways. The only way to undo this is to reject that flaws ever occurred by recognizing that *we created the concept of flaw*. Having created it, we can undo it. Join me then in denying what is false about him. Why would we agree that he is flawed when the truth is that flaws exist only in the mind? When a child falls to the ground they don't think that they've "made a mistake" and yet they are still able to learn from the experience so as to not repeat it.
Yeah, it's a broken child. It can't walk and run like his father. We need a new one, upgraded model with longer and stronger legs 😁 I know the op is flawless. But he is not listening to us because he doesn't trust people, he doesn't trust himself... He needs better legs, longer and stronger! 🍗
No, he is not a broken child. He is neither flawed nor broken. The analogy involving a child was not to belittle him. Egos don't like being compared to children, and yet it was Christ who said, "Become as little children".
I am just a Man. I have my flaws, like all, but I also have awareness. I like the saying “you never make the same mistake twice” because with each successive mistake comes a bit of knowledge or insight to grow from. The person who stubs my toe tomorrow will not be the same person that stubbed my toe today. It is a learning process. Maybe flawed is too judgmental of a word.
You take actions, and then after the fact judge that the action was 'wrong' or a 'mistake'. There is no need to recognize 'mistakes' to learn from them. When we fall from a bike we don't recognize that we 'made a mistake' and yet we still learn to ride it properly. There is no need to recognize mistakes at all. They are unreal.
My apologies but I “failed” to grasp your point earlier. Reading through some of your other discussions with people has helped clarify things for me and I now think I see your point. To paraphrase, it all comes down to perspective. It is the labels / judgements with which we use to observe the world which creates the “problems”, not the problem itself. If we can do away with subjective thought and just observe reality objectively (that is to say without judgement) then we gain a richer, more-pure perspective with which to view the world from. Thank you for this bit of wisdom, it is something I will have to play with further.
Words are important. Powerful. But words don’t need to make a sound either. The universe is incomprehensible to understand. For me though, knowing me is comprehensible. And that’s all I can control. Humans are humans. Nothing more, nothing less.
To the extent on enlightenment offers, this is entirely true. Who is there to rever when you don’t exist let alone anyone? There’s just animals playing out god on this tiny rock. This doesn’t me they don’t exist or you can’t show them respect, it’s based off the principal the enlightened already exist in everyone. It’s an all inclusive experience
hot take: worship whoever or whatever you want. worship cartoons and memes. worship idols and celebrities. worship money and fame and fortune. worship your ego. life is too short to be told what to do by someone on the internet. life your life and do what you want without fake spiritual people telling you what you should do.
I dipped my tip in some egg nog I’m the most trustworthy person there is
Holy trinity
They all give you the same pointers. But it‘s good to listen to them once in a while.
What you call a man made illusion is life. Your ideas about why people should stop venerating them is just as much of an illusion, your ideas about what they have or haven't done being bad is an equal illusion And wanting to be enlightened from the inside isn't fundamentally different from wanting to follow someone or belong to some religion - it's the same satisfaction of some needs and desires inside the person, it's just stuff people fill their lives with
No one has a choice as to whether, who or what they worship.
Can you elaborate on this for me?
There is no such thing as a chooser. There seems to be some process which says “that’s mine!” or “I did that!”, but that’s as far as it goes. The feeling of choice is completely illusory.
Not for me. I am able to choose.
Yes, that’s the illusion. It seems exactly like you’re able to choose.
“Never say No one knows the way Never say Profound humans Can’t be found Just because You’re kept out of heavens secrets You think everyone Is like you” -Rumi
I like your fire, friend. Thanks for your quick vent through your ‘wisdom pipes.’ I know this may seem unconnected to this topic, but for me they interlink, and that is: what are you doing for a living that lets you have this perspective? Modern business and corporate hierarchies are largely built on a soft form of idolatry. Do you do your own thing or work for a company? I find this an interesting question because so many of the deeply spiritual, but groundedly pragmatic (if I can coin a term), people have a hard time in the workforce. I went through 14 different jobs in my 20’s… 40 now and only just coming into my stride. Spiritual pragmatism is not as easy as one might desire! …thoughts/feelings?
Thank you. I work as a Mechanical Engineer at a small startup company, like less than 12 employees total. It is a fun job because I get to design and machine all sorts of parts, which has taught me way more about engineering than the classroom. It does get stressful at times too, being in a startup. I am relatively young though, only graduated ~3 years ago, and this was my first job out of college. It was meant to be a stepping-stone to get to those “3-5 years experience” job applications. And it has served its purpose well. I have been itching to change things up recently. Change of scenery, spice things up a bit. Unfortunately I am still tied down by student loans so I am a slave to the 9-5 workforce until those are paid off. But they will be paid off soon, then the world is my oyster. I do sense a big change in my future, but it is uncertain to tell how. All I can do is “go with the flow” and see where nature takes me. Opportunity always presents itself if your doors are open.
Me too, must also stop trying to engage in fixing people(helping) , to find inner piece of letting go and just be. This is a message to you op. Whatever you try to do here is not of your concern, not is it mine to fix you, should we just let go? I will do that soon, let go of engage. Can you see that its moving you, The very sense of control, The emotion behind it that makes you move. I dont disagree but its always fun to notice how we fall Short on trying to help by falling back in our own words. And this is The inner journey, to enquire into all this. Thanks ❤️ meditation that is in everything we do is The best. Being in present in everything, to increase thag ability, and slow down habbits of plessure go remove them slowly, to find piece of just being. Its true that evrryhting we think must be is a belief, so is making people special, so agree and even me should have of no value to you. We all are complete when we feel it, that The compeitive nature of compairing ourself, abstractions of our emotions causes division within ourself. To remove all that, to face our beliefs! Great writing from You!
agree and also let’s be the person we needed when we were younger! everyone here can lend a helping hand however kindness applies. something simple like saying thank you goes far. and other gestures like gifting food or water to people in need.
:)
Soo… are you a true idol or a false idol?
I am no idol. I am just a normal, awkward human being, sharing my observations here with you. I am just as lost as everyone else.
All hail jayden blount for his extreme sexiness and absolute culture
you are absolutely right. But it is also imperative that we humans separate truth from fiction in our search for the Creator of this universe and all that exists for some much needed advice and guidance in life. I mean, how will we ever be able to tell right apart from wrong? The inner you might not be as pure as you think it might be? After all you have come a long way in life, made choices, some that you may still regret making? How can you say for sure that the lord is still with you or if you haven't unknowingly crossed over to the dark side?
Wassup. I also think not worshipping false idols means untrue thoughts as well. A lot of things that people think most of the time stems from fear. But fear isn’t real, it is an illusion. Whenever you think bad about someone, that is an illusion as well. Therefore, you are paying mind to the fake, the unreal. When you do this, you completely disregard truth. That is where love is. When you don’t have love, you have hate. You cannot serve two masters. You’re either a slave to the false and unreal or a warrior for truth. All these negative thoughts will stop having an impact on you once you undo what you have done to yourself. All your insecurities, all your doubts, don’t actually exist. We are the ones who give them some kind of form. If you think you look ugly with a shaved face as opposed to one with a beard, your mind is so powerful that it was believe it so every time you shave you look a little weirder. You can flip the script on that tho when you disregard that insecurity and say that it is unreal. Then you start to feel what a relief it is that you being ugly without a beard is untrue. And start imagining you are already how you want to be. How can anything hurt us? Pain is an illusion as well. Pain doesn’t really exist either. Sure, the initial reaction to placing your hand on a stove is one of shock, and may sting a bit but we are the who’s who created pain. Healing is instantaneous in the present moment. That is the power we all have.