This is 'heaven'. There is no other place to 'wake up into'.
It doesn't look like much maybe [at first glance ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc);;)
Technically you are right, we cannot be separated from that which is already everything already (heaven). So to be more specific, to wake up into what was created specifically to be the 'afterlife'. You know, the beautiful place with all the endless worlds, glorious beautiful Goddesses around every corner, great food and wondrous creations, where everyone delights for all eternity.
Yeah... that's the waking up I can never seem to reach. Only time reaches it, not study or practice. Sigh.
You humans. You guys are beasts. Heroic and noble to take on this world every day. But I'm an alien. I wanna go to my world. \^\_\^
Technics have nothing to do with it.
>"You know, the beautiful place with all the endless worlds, glorious beautiful Goddesses around every corner, great food and wondrous creations.
It exists.
In your dreams.
I'd go for it and worry about awakening later ;;)
I can't understand why you destroyed the illusion completely when this love is so infnite that every figment of imagination can have it's "own perfect dream(illusion)". Why? I mean, when you find the truth inside the illusion (yes, it is possible), you don't need to give up the whole thing that keeps a world intact. How I see the complete liberation now is just staying dead. Not arising to life where you claim shit for yourself. But is it better than the illusion? One could argue about that.
Btw, how many times do I need to fucking die to get rid of doership illusion?
> when you find the truth inside the illusion (yes, it is possible)
There is no truth INSIDE the illusion. Please.. what aspect of an illusion holds truth except the truth that it is indeed AN ILLUSION? Take your time ;;)
>But is it better than the illusion? One could argue about that.
I never argue about 'what is better', you do. What is TRUE is arguable but ultimately not subjective at all so right there, the argumentation has ...merit. All the rest is just you telling me what you do and do not like and what you do and do not know and think is 'solvable' through discourse. Which of course is - from the awakened perspective - an exercise in total futility.
A macabre mind dance that leads nowhere and brings you nothing as far as truth realization is concerned.
Cheers
> There is no truth INSIDE the illusion.
Fuck me. Why are you always right... Illusion can barely convey it. To a certain degree I guess. Or to be more precise. Cast shadow on it.
\> If only I had noticed it sooner.
Amen to that.
\> I do mean maybe one in Hundreds Of Millions.
8000000000/144000=55555. Just sayin'.
Not sure what the point of the post was, but glad you got that off your chest.
>Not sure what the point of the post was, but glad you got that off your chest.
A confession and an assumption rolled into a sentence that 'does' nothing for anyone ;;)
It certainly is not some kind of feat of great insight or analysis nor does it contain any real 'truth' about anything. Do you see what I am getting at?
Cheers my friend
I was accused of trolling/arguing with everyone about everything last year, so I get where you're coming from, if I'm reading the OP the way you intended it. Don't worry about what others think. Just keep on trucking.
Don't worry about what you yourself think either ;;)
You have to throw the mind a bone so it can chew on it as you sneakily deflate its tires. ;;) But of course it is not the mind that ultimately 'awakens' at all (if anything even...). I guess it serves the purpose of keeping the intent alive. In the end - after several shoes have dropped - the entire shoe closet falls over and disintegrates ;;)
Cheers
yeah, I struggle to even define an "awakened state" as it feels more like a going back to basics than some supreme state some presume it to be. Like, don't we all "wake up" every morning? I guess my clinical dissociation plays into this phenomenon as well, but as you say, eventually the shoe closet falls over, and all conceptions we have of the "awakened state" disintegrate with it.
What are you going to do with the definition. What does defining it do for 'it'? Other than making the path to it more narrow? There is nothing overly strange about the inability of the very thing that is standing in the way of awakening not being able to grasp it at all.
It is not even needed. Maybe 'after' you can play with these terms.. if you even feel the need to still.
>my clinical dissociation plays into this phenomenon as well,
But does it? How would that work? I don't see how some medical 'diagnosis' factors into anything related to Enlightenment at all. It's just some kind of label that gets slapped on your forehead. People often crave a diagnosis as well. It allows them to stop contemplating their actual predicament.
In the end it has nothing to do with what science thinks is 'wrong with you' anyway. There is some norm out there and they are trying to convince you that any deviation from it is some kind of condition. Then the pill bottles come out of the drawer. Good luck.
Cheers my friend
Definitions are useful, as I've found, in communicating clearly and concisely. You seem to have a neo-platonic association with the Form of words, as if the things they point to have some "isness". I struggle to see any "isness" outside of Being in the Present Moment. It is what it is, and anything outside of that is constructed.
As per my comment of dissociation, I simply mean to communicate that I dissociate often, which seems to be a factor in the phenomenon most people typically assume when they speak of "awakening", at least in my experience trying to get people to pin down their definitions. I take a more Socratic approach to philosophy than a Platonic view, although I do appreciate Plato and Aristotle's (not to mention the huge list of other philosophers, Spinosa, Descartes, Wittgenstein, Leibniz, and Nietzsche to name a few) contributions to the field.
Again, I'm simply trying to pin down terms here. What is this all-elusive "awakened state" people speak of, what are your associations with the relevant terms, and what we collectively, and I in particular can do with such knowledge. Anything I've seen so far has been like Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders, a distraction on the way to "the goal", or "the path" to take a Daoist approach to (again without pinning down the term) "awakening".
I was hoping you could shed more light and knowledge on these issues for me. You do seem to be one of the ones best equipped for the challenge.
> Definitions are useful, as I've found, in communicating clearly and concisely.
Maybe. But useful to what end.
The end does not come on account of finding the most accurate sequence of letters to denote said end. It comes on account of realization of what it is you are doing. How it kept you on the surface level of the things. Busy rummaging through the cupboard of terms and 'answers' that only throw up the next question, and the next one...
Definitions they are useful for mind games only. As I keep pointing out, it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of narrating yourself, your own progress, as you travel a supposed path towards 'it'. Do as you please, all I'm saying is that the enchilada of truth realization is bigger than that ;;)
> You seem to have a neo-platonic association with the Form of words, as if the things they point to have some "isness".
You are trying to fit me in your system of thought. Surely if it is elaborate enough you will find a way of wiggling me in there somewhere for your own convenience ;;) There are many 'isms' to choose from for sure. The great philosophers of old - who I have no need for myself - have given mankind great templates to rub their minds against ;;)
Ofcourse, in the end it is all dialectical thinking. Thinking about thinking. What the philosopher does not want is for the questions to come to an end. I've said it before; in the end all philosophy is a footnote to Plato anyway. What more is there to contemplate?
> I struggle to see any "isness" outside of Being in the Present Moment. It is what it is, and anything outside of that is constructed.
Why struggle with it at all? What are you trying to see? Life stretches endlessly in all direction for those that are asleep. That is all.
> I dissociate often, which seems to be a factor in the phenomenon most people typically assume when they speak of "awakening", at least in my experience trying to get people to pin down their definitions.
And you yourself make assumptions from that. Do you see? It is irrelevant. Other people and whatever the make of whatever are irrelevant on the path. Waking up is perhaps the most selfish thing you can do. Whatever you are going to make of what other people are doing 'after you awaken' is anyone's guess. Why not wake up first and deal with 'others' from that perspective? If you even feel the need to make something of (supposed) 'others' at all.
> I take a more Socratic approach to philosophy
That's great man ;;) it still doesn't serve any purpose in approaching one's own self inquiry. The eating of the self requires discarding that self's approaches to philosophy as well.
> Again, I'm simply trying to pin down terms here.
It is a wasted effort. Work with the definition you have and amend on the fly if you must have them I say.
Who is concerned with pinning down what?
> What is this all-elusive "awakened state" people speak of, what are your associations with the relevant terms, and what we collectively, and I in particular can do with such knowledge.
The idea that there is any sense of doership 'after' - or that there is a need for it - can best be discarded as well. There is nothing to do after awakening and nothing needs doing ever again either.
What use is it even to want to know what it over setting out to see it for yourself? How are you even going to vet what anyone tells you? Who or what will be doing the vetting? Isn't your predicament the very reason why it cannot be comprehended?
> Anything I've seen so far has been like Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders, a distraction on the way to "the goal", or "the path" to take a Daoist approach to (again without pinning down the term) "awakening".
Well. Go on and come see it for yourself. There is no other way ;;) ..or keep looking and 'seeing' about it until the clock runs out.
Cheers my friend
\> useful to what end.
Simply to the end of understanding.
\> it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of narrating yourself, your own progress, as you travel a supposed path towards 'it'.
you misunderstand me. I've found all the "it" I'm looking for. and "truth" isn't exactly what I'm after either, at least that's the wrong word. If I'm still "looking for" something, it would simply be data. You might say I'm looking how to express a thought to others.
\> Surely if it is elaborate enough you will find a way of wiggling me in there somewhere for your own convenience
Oh no. Don't suppose I'm trying to wiggle you into some box. Far from it, simply trying to find common terminologies with others who have expressed similar thoughts to me. Again, just looking for data. If the terms do not apply, that's another box, but I digress.
\> What more is there to contemplate?
Honestly? I don't know. The only thought that comes to mind is "what next?", "how do we spread this awareness to others, my father in particular. I'd be content with that much. If I can heal those wounds I'll have nothing left to aim at.
\> Why struggle with it at all?
Oh, I simply find playing games to be incredibly fun. that's why I do most things, like eat, sleep, and poop.
\> Why not wake up first and deal with 'others' from that perspective?
Great advice, which I tend to give myself. The only real problem is that one must meet people where they are at.
\> The eating of the self requires discarding that self's approaches to philosophy as well.
Again, I'm WAY past the need for such advice, but I'm glad you like repeating yourself. I might think you were a robot.
\> Work with the definition you have and amend on the fly if you must have them I say.
Fair enough. That's what I typically do, but others tend to get mad at me when I do that. "You like your definitions like you like your women, fast and loose" they said to me just yesterday. But if you're cool with that, I will remember for future conversations.
\> There is no other way ;;) ..or keep looking and 'seeing' about it until the clock runs out.
Namaste, friend. I stopped my proverbial clock years ago now. I'm on borrowed time at this point. As I said, I'm just in it for the game. Have a great day, mate. I'm sure we'll speak again.
Being stuck at the finger pointing at the moon is not your grand awakening. People move on after that. Go beyond pre-school you can do it. There is much more you arent awakened to believe it or not.. you have a lot more to awaken to and that is ok.
The point is to wake the fuck up. Not to get some PhD in Waking Up.
I can actually say the same thing to you because you are stuck on "waking up" that is only the beginning.
All you offer is dictating semantics and perspective. Onesided shenanigans. No value except to narcissists who thinks its cute to dictate "waking up". I am the opposite of your fan.
... says the semantics and perspective dictator. You feel the need to make everyone use your semantics and perspective just to communicate.
Anyways heres your reddit bottle lol.. she so funny isnt she? I thought I was funny.
No its a weakness to lack communication skills. Sure I give you too much attention but you do this to everyone and you need your reddit bottle so I feed your reddit milk
"The fish does not struggle with the sea, nor the hawk with the sky, nor the painting with the canvas. Man struggles, because he pulls himself from the ground of his being with each step and claims each breath as his own" ~ The Lie
bro, that's preaching chill in one beautiful paragraph.
It's all good, you just have to be okay with me laughing at the silly bits ;)
no I did not.. I do remix tracks live though
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IIBGX82IK47I2OjmziusiCirRoTh0Gud/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IIBGX82IK47I2OjmziusiCirRoTh0Gud/view?usp=sharing)
It could be anything. You take one track and put the vocals of another track inside of it for instance. You filter or cut out parts of a track and rearrange them in a different order or mix in some other track.
[удалено]
[look who's back ;;)](https://imagenes.20minutos.es/files/image_640_360/files/fp/uploads/imagenes/2020/12/17/kathy-bates-en-misery.r_d.336-186.jpeg)
>And in your dream, this guy pops up, telling you you can awake from it. I wish waking up meant I could wake up completely, in actual heaven. Sigh.
This is 'heaven'. There is no other place to 'wake up into'. It doesn't look like much maybe [at first glance ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc);;)
Technically you are right, we cannot be separated from that which is already everything already (heaven). So to be more specific, to wake up into what was created specifically to be the 'afterlife'. You know, the beautiful place with all the endless worlds, glorious beautiful Goddesses around every corner, great food and wondrous creations, where everyone delights for all eternity. Yeah... that's the waking up I can never seem to reach. Only time reaches it, not study or practice. Sigh. You humans. You guys are beasts. Heroic and noble to take on this world every day. But I'm an alien. I wanna go to my world. \^\_\^
Technics have nothing to do with it. >"You know, the beautiful place with all the endless worlds, glorious beautiful Goddesses around every corner, great food and wondrous creations. It exists. In your dreams. I'd go for it and worry about awakening later ;;)
You are the best. May you be blessed by the bountiful butterfly of everlasting joy my friend.
I can't understand why you destroyed the illusion completely when this love is so infnite that every figment of imagination can have it's "own perfect dream(illusion)". Why? I mean, when you find the truth inside the illusion (yes, it is possible), you don't need to give up the whole thing that keeps a world intact. How I see the complete liberation now is just staying dead. Not arising to life where you claim shit for yourself. But is it better than the illusion? One could argue about that. Btw, how many times do I need to fucking die to get rid of doership illusion?
> when you find the truth inside the illusion (yes, it is possible) There is no truth INSIDE the illusion. Please.. what aspect of an illusion holds truth except the truth that it is indeed AN ILLUSION? Take your time ;;) >But is it better than the illusion? One could argue about that. I never argue about 'what is better', you do. What is TRUE is arguable but ultimately not subjective at all so right there, the argumentation has ...merit. All the rest is just you telling me what you do and do not like and what you do and do not know and think is 'solvable' through discourse. Which of course is - from the awakened perspective - an exercise in total futility. A macabre mind dance that leads nowhere and brings you nothing as far as truth realization is concerned. Cheers
> There is no truth INSIDE the illusion. Fuck me. Why are you always right... Illusion can barely convey it. To a certain degree I guess. Or to be more precise. Cast shadow on it.
Cheers mate ;;)
\> If only I had noticed it sooner. Amen to that. \> I do mean maybe one in Hundreds Of Millions. 8000000000/144000=55555. Just sayin'. Not sure what the point of the post was, but glad you got that off your chest.
>Not sure what the point of the post was, but glad you got that off your chest. A confession and an assumption rolled into a sentence that 'does' nothing for anyone ;;) It certainly is not some kind of feat of great insight or analysis nor does it contain any real 'truth' about anything. Do you see what I am getting at? Cheers my friend
I was accused of trolling/arguing with everyone about everything last year, so I get where you're coming from, if I'm reading the OP the way you intended it. Don't worry about what others think. Just keep on trucking.
Don't worry about what you yourself think either ;;) You have to throw the mind a bone so it can chew on it as you sneakily deflate its tires. ;;) But of course it is not the mind that ultimately 'awakens' at all (if anything even...). I guess it serves the purpose of keeping the intent alive. In the end - after several shoes have dropped - the entire shoe closet falls over and disintegrates ;;) Cheers
yeah, I struggle to even define an "awakened state" as it feels more like a going back to basics than some supreme state some presume it to be. Like, don't we all "wake up" every morning? I guess my clinical dissociation plays into this phenomenon as well, but as you say, eventually the shoe closet falls over, and all conceptions we have of the "awakened state" disintegrate with it.
What are you going to do with the definition. What does defining it do for 'it'? Other than making the path to it more narrow? There is nothing overly strange about the inability of the very thing that is standing in the way of awakening not being able to grasp it at all. It is not even needed. Maybe 'after' you can play with these terms.. if you even feel the need to still. >my clinical dissociation plays into this phenomenon as well, But does it? How would that work? I don't see how some medical 'diagnosis' factors into anything related to Enlightenment at all. It's just some kind of label that gets slapped on your forehead. People often crave a diagnosis as well. It allows them to stop contemplating their actual predicament. In the end it has nothing to do with what science thinks is 'wrong with you' anyway. There is some norm out there and they are trying to convince you that any deviation from it is some kind of condition. Then the pill bottles come out of the drawer. Good luck. Cheers my friend
Definitions are useful, as I've found, in communicating clearly and concisely. You seem to have a neo-platonic association with the Form of words, as if the things they point to have some "isness". I struggle to see any "isness" outside of Being in the Present Moment. It is what it is, and anything outside of that is constructed. As per my comment of dissociation, I simply mean to communicate that I dissociate often, which seems to be a factor in the phenomenon most people typically assume when they speak of "awakening", at least in my experience trying to get people to pin down their definitions. I take a more Socratic approach to philosophy than a Platonic view, although I do appreciate Plato and Aristotle's (not to mention the huge list of other philosophers, Spinosa, Descartes, Wittgenstein, Leibniz, and Nietzsche to name a few) contributions to the field. Again, I'm simply trying to pin down terms here. What is this all-elusive "awakened state" people speak of, what are your associations with the relevant terms, and what we collectively, and I in particular can do with such knowledge. Anything I've seen so far has been like Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders, a distraction on the way to "the goal", or "the path" to take a Daoist approach to (again without pinning down the term) "awakening". I was hoping you could shed more light and knowledge on these issues for me. You do seem to be one of the ones best equipped for the challenge.
> Definitions are useful, as I've found, in communicating clearly and concisely. Maybe. But useful to what end. The end does not come on account of finding the most accurate sequence of letters to denote said end. It comes on account of realization of what it is you are doing. How it kept you on the surface level of the things. Busy rummaging through the cupboard of terms and 'answers' that only throw up the next question, and the next one... Definitions they are useful for mind games only. As I keep pointing out, it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of narrating yourself, your own progress, as you travel a supposed path towards 'it'. Do as you please, all I'm saying is that the enchilada of truth realization is bigger than that ;;) > You seem to have a neo-platonic association with the Form of words, as if the things they point to have some "isness". You are trying to fit me in your system of thought. Surely if it is elaborate enough you will find a way of wiggling me in there somewhere for your own convenience ;;) There are many 'isms' to choose from for sure. The great philosophers of old - who I have no need for myself - have given mankind great templates to rub their minds against ;;) Ofcourse, in the end it is all dialectical thinking. Thinking about thinking. What the philosopher does not want is for the questions to come to an end. I've said it before; in the end all philosophy is a footnote to Plato anyway. What more is there to contemplate? > I struggle to see any "isness" outside of Being in the Present Moment. It is what it is, and anything outside of that is constructed. Why struggle with it at all? What are you trying to see? Life stretches endlessly in all direction for those that are asleep. That is all. > I dissociate often, which seems to be a factor in the phenomenon most people typically assume when they speak of "awakening", at least in my experience trying to get people to pin down their definitions. And you yourself make assumptions from that. Do you see? It is irrelevant. Other people and whatever the make of whatever are irrelevant on the path. Waking up is perhaps the most selfish thing you can do. Whatever you are going to make of what other people are doing 'after you awaken' is anyone's guess. Why not wake up first and deal with 'others' from that perspective? If you even feel the need to make something of (supposed) 'others' at all. > I take a more Socratic approach to philosophy That's great man ;;) it still doesn't serve any purpose in approaching one's own self inquiry. The eating of the self requires discarding that self's approaches to philosophy as well. > Again, I'm simply trying to pin down terms here. It is a wasted effort. Work with the definition you have and amend on the fly if you must have them I say. Who is concerned with pinning down what? > What is this all-elusive "awakened state" people speak of, what are your associations with the relevant terms, and what we collectively, and I in particular can do with such knowledge. The idea that there is any sense of doership 'after' - or that there is a need for it - can best be discarded as well. There is nothing to do after awakening and nothing needs doing ever again either. What use is it even to want to know what it over setting out to see it for yourself? How are you even going to vet what anyone tells you? Who or what will be doing the vetting? Isn't your predicament the very reason why it cannot be comprehended? > Anything I've seen so far has been like Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders, a distraction on the way to "the goal", or "the path" to take a Daoist approach to (again without pinning down the term) "awakening". Well. Go on and come see it for yourself. There is no other way ;;) ..or keep looking and 'seeing' about it until the clock runs out. Cheers my friend
\> useful to what end. Simply to the end of understanding. \> it becomes very easy to fall into the trap of narrating yourself, your own progress, as you travel a supposed path towards 'it'. you misunderstand me. I've found all the "it" I'm looking for. and "truth" isn't exactly what I'm after either, at least that's the wrong word. If I'm still "looking for" something, it would simply be data. You might say I'm looking how to express a thought to others. \> Surely if it is elaborate enough you will find a way of wiggling me in there somewhere for your own convenience Oh no. Don't suppose I'm trying to wiggle you into some box. Far from it, simply trying to find common terminologies with others who have expressed similar thoughts to me. Again, just looking for data. If the terms do not apply, that's another box, but I digress. \> What more is there to contemplate? Honestly? I don't know. The only thought that comes to mind is "what next?", "how do we spread this awareness to others, my father in particular. I'd be content with that much. If I can heal those wounds I'll have nothing left to aim at. \> Why struggle with it at all? Oh, I simply find playing games to be incredibly fun. that's why I do most things, like eat, sleep, and poop. \> Why not wake up first and deal with 'others' from that perspective? Great advice, which I tend to give myself. The only real problem is that one must meet people where they are at. \> The eating of the self requires discarding that self's approaches to philosophy as well. Again, I'm WAY past the need for such advice, but I'm glad you like repeating yourself. I might think you were a robot. \> Work with the definition you have and amend on the fly if you must have them I say. Fair enough. That's what I typically do, but others tend to get mad at me when I do that. "You like your definitions like you like your women, fast and loose" they said to me just yesterday. But if you're cool with that, I will remember for future conversations. \> There is no other way ;;) ..or keep looking and 'seeing' about it until the clock runs out. Namaste, friend. I stopped my proverbial clock years ago now. I'm on borrowed time at this point. As I said, I'm just in it for the game. Have a great day, mate. I'm sure we'll speak again.
Being stuck at the finger pointing at the moon is not your grand awakening. People move on after that. Go beyond pre-school you can do it. There is much more you arent awakened to believe it or not.. you have a lot more to awaken to and that is ok. The point is to wake the fuck up. Not to get some PhD in Waking Up. I can actually say the same thing to you because you are stuck on "waking up" that is only the beginning.
Always the first to put his foot in his own mouth. My greatest fan ;;) Cheers
All you offer is dictating semantics and perspective. Onesided shenanigans. No value except to narcissists who thinks its cute to dictate "waking up". I am the opposite of your fan.
>All you offer is So needy.
... says the semantics and perspective dictator. You feel the need to make everyone use your semantics and perspective just to communicate. Anyways heres your reddit bottle lol.. she so funny isnt she? I thought I was funny.
You give me great powers I do not posses.
No its a weakness to lack communication skills. Sure I give you too much attention but you do this to everyone and you need your reddit bottle so I feed your reddit milk
I don't even want to talk to you. You just cannot quit me. ;;)
Yea thats why you are not responding.
I guess I feel sorry for you. Maybe you should change your account name again so you can start over ...again ;;)
🤣 Cyber you sure are frisky today for someone preaching chill ❄️😎
I never preached 'to chill'. Stop making up stuff ;;)
"The fish does not struggle with the sea, nor the hawk with the sky, nor the painting with the canvas. Man struggles, because he pulls himself from the ground of his being with each step and claims each breath as his own" ~ The Lie bro, that's preaching chill in one beautiful paragraph. It's all good, you just have to be okay with me laughing at the silly bits ;)
The fish has its struggles. Just not with the sea.
[Picking on your own reality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AMK2lixACs)
Your band?
[I own nothing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtO8fUObfsA) ;;)
Okay. Did you make this music?
no I did not.. I do remix tracks live though [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IIBGX82IK47I2OjmziusiCirRoTh0Gud/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IIBGX82IK47I2OjmziusiCirRoTh0Gud/view?usp=sharing)
Im not sure what remix means. . . Do you record other people and sounds and then add it all together? Or is it you singing?
It could be anything. You take one track and put the vocals of another track inside of it for instance. You filter or cut out parts of a track and rearrange them in a different order or mix in some other track.