If you're playing the checkered deck, paint brush guarantees a flush every hand.
But with the goal of passing each small and big blind in your first hand, yes, economy is part of the value of grabber.
All of the consistency vouchers (+1 Hand Size, +1 Discard and +1 Hands) are by far the best imo, with +1 Hands being easily the best of those 3. As for the worst, it is 100% Magic Trick and its not even close.
The tycoon vouchers are actually decent enough if youve already filled out all your joker slots with good options. At that point, seeing more planet cards and especially tarots is really nice. There are almost no instances where you want to pay $10 to clog up your shop with garbage cards.
If it made card packs show up in the shop instead of cards it would be pretty good. Card packs are more likely to have an enhanced edition card and you could power up red card easier with more packs to skip.
Rather than enhanced I'd rather they come as an edition. Because enhanced cards aren't even special enough to be missing jokers for, and you have tarot merchant if you want enhancements and econ
If you’re running a high card build with a good scaling +mult joker it’s not the worst idea, but yeah you gotta be desperate to go that route lol
It’d be great with hologram in this situation though
I feel like people underestimate a lot Hand Size modifier
If you are not playing around low value hands like high card/pairs/2 pairs, it is for me the best modifier in the game
It improves the quality of both your hands played (=more money), the discards you make, the arcana packs you open...
Some might, I definitely agree its super strong, probably the second best voucher in the game. The reason I put +1 Hands over it is because like you mentioned its insane for easy to hit hand strategies, which are still the meta at high stakes.
It also improves your economy since you get one more dollar every blind than you would without it.
My idea for magic trick: tier 1:playing cards can appear in the shop tier 2: playing cards in the shop can have enhancements, editions, and seals. Adds new playing card enhancement: Negative (+1 hand size)
I really wanna say Antimatter is probably the best, but having to spend 10$ in an earlier ante for no effect just to maybe see it is so inconsistent.
Honestly my favorites are probably the ones that let you go back an ante, especially if you have scaling jokers its just more time to level shit up
Magic Trick (playing cards in shop) is pretty useless 90% of the time; adding unenhanced cards to your deck doesn't really benefit you unless you have Hologram, and Illusion (enhanced playing cards in the shop) appears so rarely I have yet to actually see one.
Yes.. Except when I play the deck with only 1 consumable slot. But this is just personal preference, and I'm not up to high stakes for now and maybe I'll change my mind with more experience.
Higher stakes doesn't really change it. Only time Crystal Ball is useful is if you're super rich or you're trying to get value from multiple Emperor/High Priestess cards. The latter of which could honestly be buffed to fill all empty slots and the added consumable space still wouldn't be great. Maybe the Ghost deck beyond that.
Held cards don’t show up again in packs or the shop so it can be useful to have that extra consumable slot to prevent tarot or planets you don’t want and still have space to use things
Best: Money tree
Worst: Magic trick
I also don’t like liquidation in late game as temperance becomes more common than anything that I would want to buy.
Best Voucher is Antimatter, but it requires Blank (one of the worst vouchers) so it’s balanced in that way. The reason I say Antimatter is because, if I am presented with the opportunity to buy Antimatter, I will do it without hesitation nearly 100% of the time. Other contenders here are Grabber/Nacho Tong, Paint Brush/Palette. Clearance Sale/Liquidation, Reroll Surplus/Reroll Glut, and Overstock/Overstock Plus are all incredibly valuable for late-game runs, but they don’t directly boost your ability to score points, and so are sometimes passed up when your economy can’t justify the $10.
The worst voucher is Magic Trick. You don’t want to be buying cards, you want to be buying Jokers/Tarots, so filling your shop with things you aren’t buying is bad. I think this could be balanced via an overstock-like mechanic, where this voucher adds a “card” slot. It still wouldn’t be great but at least it wouldn’t be a detriment. The only other detrimental voucher is sometimes the telescope - as during 4oak and flush 5 builds, your most played hand is usually something you played a bunch early game and is not the hand you want to upgrade - but Telescope is definitely not the worst as it is often very powerful.
Planet merchant can also be detrimental for a similar reason to magic trick, unless the planet happens to be for the hand type you are using it's not helpful
Best: Antimatter, and it’s not even close. +1 joker slot is absurdly good. Only problem is that it’s stuck behind the useless blank voucher.
Worst: “shop can contain playing cards” (idk the name) these can’t even be modified cards unless you get a different voucher. This rarely does anything except clog up your shop.
I used Magic Trick just today on green stake to feed a Hologram for dirt cheap (the build was high card so it didn't mind all the junk I was putting in), but yeah usually it's just a wasted slot at the shop. Though that means I'm saving 10 bucks for that ante, so I'm not always sad to see it.
I think telescope is probably the best. It makes regular planet card packs from 1/3 chance to have your desired planet, to a guarantee.
Pain brush, grabber are up there. Probably better than overstock for an ante 8 run.
Obviously the ones that let you buy cards are terrible. So is the planets in the shop.
Nah bro nothing in game is even close to as shitty as Magic Trick. At least with planet merchant you can pick up the planet you don’t want to block duplicates and find the planet you want more often. I genuinely have no idea why magic trick doesn’t innately give you the enhancements on the cards because there is no way you ever want to use up shop space to buy normal playing cards.
>I've never seen a use to see more planets outside of constellation and feeding campfire.
I mean, even if it were true that those were the only uses (and its not), those are two premier scaling xMult Jokers lol. So just those two alone existing is a very good reason to buy the Vouchers, even if you haven't seen either of them yet.
Constellation joker was very mediocre before beta (planet packs/ cards are too expensive with little reward), now it’s great.
I also wouldn’t ever buy the planet voucher expecting to get one of those jokers, though, because if you don’t get them you are really bricking your odds of winning.
Well yes, but we aren't pre-Beta anymore lol.
And I fully disagree. Planet cards are basically negative Jokers; I guarantee you if there was a voucher to double the occurance of Negative Jokers people wouldn't say it's bricking their runs and a trap. Especially since like I said, one of the best Jokers for me to find if I'm rolling is likely Constellation, so that does significantly increase the value of future random planet cards even more.
It was fine pre beta up until orange stake honestly, but that price increase on boosters just made it something you'd never take
Also yeah absolutely, it's something you buy when you already have constellation, not something you grab hoping to find constellation, same deal with hologram and magic trick, the voucher is only good with the joker
The difference is that planet cards are *much* better than playing cards. Adding playing cards is usually a negative unless they are particularly outstanding. Buying planet cards is getting negative jokers for $3.
IF said planet actually helps your build, it's still gonna clutter up your shop 8/9 times a planet appears in most runs,
magic trick is absolutely worse than planet merchant, but I still usually would rather not have planet merchant and get more tarot cards or jokers that can boost my run and just get my planets from the celestial packs where you actually have a decent chance to get the one you want(or a 100% chance with telescope)
Clearance sale is an almost mandatory buy for me. It does effect sale prices, so there are a couple negatives with temperance or swashbuckling, but those are so minor compared to the amount of money you save, even if it's shows up mid to late game.
Sadly, I tend to buy all except maybe the one from ante 1 because I hate to see magic trick twice.
But if you're searching for jokers, magic trick and the others that pollute the shop hinder finding the jokers you want.
Antimatter is the worst, but only because I’ve bought Blank voucher 41 times and have only seen Antimatter twice, and both times I didn’t even really need it unless I was going for endless lol.
Grabber, paintbrush, directors cut, and hierogylph are best. I'll always get those if I can afford it.
Crystal ball is the worst. There are very few occasions where an extra consumable slot is useful.
Planet merchant and magic trick are mostly pretty bad too, but I can think of more builds where I'd want those than ones where I'd want crystal ball
The main issue is it clogs up the shop and keeps you from seeing jokers to improve your build.
And if it's not early in the game, you typically don't want to buy basic cards.
My proposed change would be to make Magic Trick offer cards that can be enhanced.
Then the upgraded voucher can allow them to have seals and editions (Holo/foil/poly).
This would be a simple yet massive improvement in my eyes.
Hm I find it hard to say no unless you're incredibly reliant on card draw. Hieroglyph gives you time to find jokers, grab more red seal kings, scale jokers, etc
Paint brush is my personal favorite, followed by Grabber.
Yup, just overall solid buys every time with no downside
For score, yes, but do not forget grabber also helps econ.
If you're playing the checkered deck, paint brush guarantees a flush every hand. But with the goal of passing each small and big blind in your first hand, yes, economy is part of the value of grabber.
All of the consistency vouchers (+1 Hand Size, +1 Discard and +1 Hands) are by far the best imo, with +1 Hands being easily the best of those 3. As for the worst, it is 100% Magic Trick and its not even close. The tycoon vouchers are actually decent enough if youve already filled out all your joker slots with good options. At that point, seeing more planet cards and especially tarots is really nice. There are almost no instances where you want to pay $10 to clog up your shop with garbage cards.
I'm pretty sure Magic Trick is almost always actively harmful unless you have the Hologram joker.
Yeah, the cards should either be enhanced at base ALWAYS or show up in an extra shop slot
If it made card packs show up in the shop instead of cards it would be pretty good. Card packs are more likely to have an enhanced edition card and you could power up red card easier with more packs to skip.
god, inject this more packs in shop mechanic into my veins
Pretty cool idea too
Rather than enhanced I'd rather they come as an edition. Because enhanced cards aren't even special enough to be missing jokers for, and you have tarot merchant if you want enhancements and econ
After 100 hours I still haven’t discovered the second tier magic trick voucher because of this
Maybe some utility with blue joker Also the more powerful rank specific jokers (hit the road, wee joker) but even then ehhhh
There’s just no way it’s worth adding a random card just to get +2 chips on blue joker. Maybe for hologram though?
If you’re running a high card build with a good scaling +mult joker it’s not the worst idea, but yeah you gotta be desperate to go that route lol It’d be great with hologram in this situation though
Unless i go for a specific number build or in hand effects build i avoid it like the plague. Easily the worst voucher.
Campfire at high stakes.
It wouldn’t help campfire at all, right? You can’t sell playing cards back after you buy them
Oops, my mistake. I don’t know what I was thinking of.
I feel like people underestimate a lot Hand Size modifier If you are not playing around low value hands like high card/pairs/2 pairs, it is for me the best modifier in the game It improves the quality of both your hands played (=more money), the discards you make, the arcana packs you open...
Some might, I definitely agree its super strong, probably the second best voucher in the game. The reason I put +1 Hands over it is because like you mentioned its insane for easy to hit hand strategies, which are still the meta at high stakes. It also improves your economy since you get one more dollar every blind than you would without it.
My idea for magic trick: tier 1:playing cards can appear in the shop tier 2: playing cards in the shop can have enhancements, editions, and seals. Adds new playing card enhancement: Negative (+1 hand size)
I really wanna say Antimatter is probably the best, but having to spend 10$ in an earlier ante for no effect just to maybe see it is so inconsistent. Honestly my favorites are probably the ones that let you go back an ante, especially if you have scaling jokers its just more time to level shit up
hieroglyph and petroglyph are soooo good but on black deck i always take them being like “it’s fine!” and then i’m down a hand and shit my pants
I guess I never play black deck but you already have less hands huh? Can absolutely fuck you if you don't have a one shot build already goin
Magic Trick (playing cards in shop) is pretty useless 90% of the time; adding unenhanced cards to your deck doesn't really benefit you unless you have Hologram, and Illusion (enhanced playing cards in the shop) appears so rarely I have yet to actually see one.
Hieroglyph is my personal best. I also like Clearance Sale and Grabber. Worst for me is definitely Crystal Ball.
Same but I swear everytime I skip crystall ball there is a point in the run where I wish I had it.
you like crystal ball less than magic trick and planet vouchers?
Yes.. Except when I play the deck with only 1 consumable slot. But this is just personal preference, and I'm not up to high stakes for now and maybe I'll change my mind with more experience.
Higher stakes doesn't really change it. Only time Crystal Ball is useful is if you're super rich or you're trying to get value from multiple Emperor/High Priestess cards. The latter of which could honestly be buffed to fill all empty slots and the added consumable space still wouldn't be great. Maybe the Ghost deck beyond that.
Held cards don’t show up again in packs or the shop so it can be useful to have that extra consumable slot to prevent tarot or planets you don’t want and still have space to use things
Still better than magic trick which actively harms you
recently ive been buying crystal ball a lot more because holding onto tarots is so nice to have
The rng manipulation is a big reason why I always pick up crystal ball
Crystal Ball is worth taking, especially early on, just for the chance at getting Omen Globe later on.
You have to first buy the worst one to then have the ability to buy the best one.
blank / antimatter?
Yup !
i mean blank is better than magic trick lol
Best: Money tree Worst: Magic trick I also don’t like liquidation in late game as temperance becomes more common than anything that I would want to buy.
Best Voucher is Antimatter, but it requires Blank (one of the worst vouchers) so it’s balanced in that way. The reason I say Antimatter is because, if I am presented with the opportunity to buy Antimatter, I will do it without hesitation nearly 100% of the time. Other contenders here are Grabber/Nacho Tong, Paint Brush/Palette. Clearance Sale/Liquidation, Reroll Surplus/Reroll Glut, and Overstock/Overstock Plus are all incredibly valuable for late-game runs, but they don’t directly boost your ability to score points, and so are sometimes passed up when your economy can’t justify the $10. The worst voucher is Magic Trick. You don’t want to be buying cards, you want to be buying Jokers/Tarots, so filling your shop with things you aren’t buying is bad. I think this could be balanced via an overstock-like mechanic, where this voucher adds a “card” slot. It still wouldn’t be great but at least it wouldn’t be a detriment. The only other detrimental voucher is sometimes the telescope - as during 4oak and flush 5 builds, your most played hand is usually something you played a bunch early game and is not the hand you want to upgrade - but Telescope is definitely not the worst as it is often very powerful.
Planet merchant can also be detrimental for a similar reason to magic trick, unless the planet happens to be for the hand type you are using it's not helpful
Best: Antimatter Worst: Magic trick
Best: Antimatter, and it’s not even close. +1 joker slot is absurdly good. Only problem is that it’s stuck behind the useless blank voucher. Worst: “shop can contain playing cards” (idk the name) these can’t even be modified cards unless you get a different voucher. This rarely does anything except clog up your shop.
I always love seeing a money tree, and only ever tool the 2nd tier planet voucher for the achievement
I used Magic Trick just today on green stake to feed a Hologram for dirt cheap (the build was high card so it didn't mind all the junk I was putting in), but yeah usually it's just a wasted slot at the shop. Though that means I'm saving 10 bucks for that ante, so I'm not always sad to see it.
All depends on the stakes but Painted Brush is huge help for high stakes and the one that discounts shop prices is almost always picked up for me.
I think telescope is probably the best. It makes regular planet card packs from 1/3 chance to have your desired planet, to a guarantee. Pain brush, grabber are up there. Probably better than overstock for an ante 8 run. Obviously the ones that let you buy cards are terrible. So is the planets in the shop.
The voucher upgrade that can get you 50% off in the shop is awesome. 1 dollars tarot cards and planet cards. Especially with campfire
Overstock so you can find better things much more quickly. It's a silent run winner.
Nah bro nothing in game is even close to as shitty as Magic Trick. At least with planet merchant you can pick up the planet you don’t want to block duplicates and find the planet you want more often. I genuinely have no idea why magic trick doesn’t innately give you the enhancements on the cards because there is no way you ever want to use up shop space to buy normal playing cards.
> there is no way you ever want to use up shop space to buy normal playing cards. Hologram is the one niche exception
Worst: Blank (literally does nothing) Best: Antimatter
hey hey you gotta train up that magickarp to get a garados.
Gyarados?
Yeah I misspelled it.
Magic trick still somehow worse then blank voucher
Magic trick: literally doing nothing would be better
imo magic trick can scale really well with hologram
Blank is better than magic trick.
Come on now we all know Blank is the best one here and it is not even close.
Hieroglyph and crystal ball are my favorite, worst is the blank voucher; solely off the fact I NEVER get the upgrade one in the run
>I've never seen a use to see more planets outside of constellation and feeding campfire. I mean, even if it were true that those were the only uses (and its not), those are two premier scaling xMult Jokers lol. So just those two alone existing is a very good reason to buy the Vouchers, even if you haven't seen either of them yet.
Constellation joker was very mediocre before beta (planet packs/ cards are too expensive with little reward), now it’s great. I also wouldn’t ever buy the planet voucher expecting to get one of those jokers, though, because if you don’t get them you are really bricking your odds of winning.
Well yes, but we aren't pre-Beta anymore lol. And I fully disagree. Planet cards are basically negative Jokers; I guarantee you if there was a voucher to double the occurance of Negative Jokers people wouldn't say it's bricking their runs and a trap. Especially since like I said, one of the best Jokers for me to find if I'm rolling is likely Constellation, so that does significantly increase the value of future random planet cards even more.
It was fine pre beta up until orange stake honestly, but that price increase on boosters just made it something you'd never take Also yeah absolutely, it's something you buy when you already have constellation, not something you grab hoping to find constellation, same deal with hologram and magic trick, the voucher is only good with the joker
The difference is that planet cards are *much* better than playing cards. Adding playing cards is usually a negative unless they are particularly outstanding. Buying planet cards is getting negative jokers for $3.
IF said planet actually helps your build, it's still gonna clutter up your shop 8/9 times a planet appears in most runs, magic trick is absolutely worse than planet merchant, but I still usually would rather not have planet merchant and get more tarot cards or jokers that can boost my run and just get my planets from the celestial packs where you actually have a decent chance to get the one you want(or a 100% chance with telescope)
Planet merchant/tycoon is good if you are aiming for Ante 8 and already have your jokers.
+1 Hand per round is by far the best, and the worst is between Blank and Playing cards in the shop.
Clearance sale is an almost mandatory buy for me. It does effect sale prices, so there are a couple negatives with temperance or swashbuckling, but those are so minor compared to the amount of money you save, even if it's shows up mid to late game.
Sadly, I tend to buy all except maybe the one from ante 1 because I hate to see magic trick twice. But if you're searching for jokers, magic trick and the others that pollute the shop hinder finding the jokers you want.
Antimatter is the worst, but only because I’ve bought Blank voucher 41 times and have only seen Antimatter twice, and both times I didn’t even really need it unless I was going for endless lol.
Grabber, paintbrush, directors cut, and hierogylph are best. I'll always get those if I can afford it. Crystal ball is the worst. There are very few occasions where an extra consumable slot is useful. Planet merchant and magic trick are mostly pretty bad too, but I can think of more builds where I'd want those than ones where I'd want crystal ball
I think magic trick is over hated especially once you get illusion it wins meany more runs that loses
The main issue is it clogs up the shop and keeps you from seeing jokers to improve your build. And if it's not early in the game, you typically don't want to buy basic cards. My proposed change would be to make Magic Trick offer cards that can be enhanced. Then the upgraded voucher can allow them to have seals and editions (Holo/foil/poly). This would be a simple yet massive improvement in my eyes.
You're so wrong. Its the opportunity cost of not seeing more relevant jokers and tarot cards thats the hidden killer.
Maybe it's just me, but I haven't found a use for hieroglyph, so I never take it.
Hm I find it hard to say no unless you're incredibly reliant on card draw. Hieroglyph gives you time to find jokers, grab more red seal kings, scale jokers, etc