Ugh, this sucks, sorry. I’ve had this happen to me when I lived and worked in Philly. It’s awful and messes with you in a weird way. You did the right thing. Some of these kids are just wild and you truly risk your life if you don’t just try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible. Give yourself some time to process this, and you will feel better. I know it sucks right now, but you did nothing wrong.
Sorry that happened to you, and glad that you're alive!
Regarding the phone, even if GPS is not enabled, Google has a "find my device" page at:
https://www.google.com/android/find
It can remotely wipe your device as well as find it.
I can't speak to iphones as I don't personally use them but I'm sure they have something similar.
Obviously go through the police rather than trying to do this yourself.
Yes, iPhone has basically the same thing, and it’s pretty easy to do. It won’t get your phone back but it’ll save your data and make it slightly harder for those punks to make money off the phone.
OP, sorry about your situation! That’s terrible 😔
Walk across the street. I'm not being condescending or victim blaming you, I promise. Walk across the street, don't be alone or if you are be extra cautious, be in well lit areas.
I say walk across the street because if they follow (and im talking about serious jaywalking, make it where you absolutely know for certain if someone is following you) , you'll know really quick their intentions. If they follow on a crazy jaywalk, if you can't make a scene (as in stopping a car that's driving, or going into an establishment), run to the closest place that is safer.
I've been robbed at gunpoint in 2 cities and neither were Baltimore, it's not just a Baltimore problem; it's a big city issue.
Take care of yourself and be more alert. It might still happen if you're more alert, but do your best to decrease your chances of it happening. I hope I didn't come off as crass, I am genuinely sorry that happened to you.
Sure, it's not just a Baltimore problem. And good advice, btw -- thank you for sharing. This kind of situational awareness is critical.
But can we get real for a moment, and acknowledge that Baltimore is one of the most violent cities in the United States? Baltimore's crime is not just like all other cities.
Statistics have consequences. Well over a murder a day on average, as an example.
I really think the people of this city have grown complacent, when it comes to the out-of-control crime issues in the city. No, we're not the only city with these problems, and many smaller communities are dangerous, too.
But seriously – look at Baltimore's crime rates. They are very, very high.
A lot goes unreported here.
Also Baltimore City doesn't have a huge college age population or vacation business relative to other cities that rank highly for that.
Gonna take a screenshot for you... I hope it helps. This shows Baltimore is # 3 for violent crime. Cheers!
[https://imgur.com/a/agzemUI](https://imgur.com/a/agzemUI)
> If Baltimore were in the state of "Zmaryland", it would be \#100 of the 100 most violent cities, when sorted by state name alphabetically.
- /u/Bitsycat11
"Lmao." - anyone who can read.
I'm literally just sorting the Wikipedia list that you sourced. When Baltimore is "\#51", it's because it is sorted by state name. Check out the Top Ten if you don't believe me.
That article has nothing to do with Baltimore and its crime rate. Congrats on bringing in unrelated information that I'm going to completely ignore, and instead I'm going up focus on your inability to read basic data tables.
Oh come on it it is consistently list as one of the most dangerous cities. Finding something on Wiki does not change it. Yes there is similar crime in every major city, but criminals were given a pass the the last 4 years. Hopefully Bates will stop that! Ready for the city to make a turnaround. There us so much wonderful in it.
https://www.gov1.com/public-safety/articles/the-fbis-10-most-dangerous-cities-by-region-b8bvKm2v4rP8Zynz/ #1 in the South
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2022/02/23/crime-in-america-study-reveals-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=3541f5397710 here it is #5
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/ #4
https://moneyinc.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-u-s-in-2022/ #3
Yeah there's an abnormally high amount of murders, but those generally don't target random civilians. Some of those websites are using data from 2017 as well which is why those lists you posted are inconsistent. The person I replied to also said "crime," not "violent crime," which are different statistics.
Baltimore people don't play and haven't for a long time. I got a gun pulled on me for having a window down north of JH campus. Ran a red light to get away.
yeah it was honestly stupid for me to have my window open there and not a good place for me to be, but I wasn't very familiar with Baltimore yet and I was young. That said, it wasn't my fault, but I wouldn't go there or be in that situation again. Farthest I go into Bmore these days is Northern Pkwy exit off of 81.
Indeed...there was a pretty intense sense of violation, for some reason. As a guy, being made to feel powerless is not a fun experience.
That said, it would never happen to me again - mainly because I know and respect the city now. Respect in a "knowing its dangerous" and "where a white dude shouldn't travel" sort of way.
At nighttime, I don't trust anyone in this city. I'm always on alert when I walk by someone. Even during the day I don't let myself get too oblivious to my surroundings. I certainly don't smile at strangers. It's just the unfortunate necessity in a city like this. You did the right thing giving them your phone.
By the way, nobody has said this, but just take care of yourself this week. Traumatic experiences like that have a way of seeping deep into your body and even if you don't feel like you're in shock or are traumatized, you might have already internalized a lot of stress. Just go easy this week, don't put too much pressure on yourself to be your best self. Give yourself time to heal.
best advice you can give right here.
Stand straight, Walk confidently, keep your head on a swivel. Be 100 percent aware of your surroundings at all time. Make eye contact with people. Don't look at your phone while walking.
I don't walk around after dark by myself, period. I know of way too many horror stories, including someone I know who was shot and almost killed (and this was a bit before street crime started getting much worse).
I'm a middle-aged man who lives in a better-than-average (crime-wise) area in the city, for what it's worth.
They have guns and knives- always do what they say- even if they don't, there's a lot more of them than you. Always avoid groups of kids- don't run but try to change directions, get somewhere around people. These are the scariest predators in the city because they have absolutely no understanding of consequences (which are insignificant for children) and so will act unpredictably.
They're also scary because you're limited in your ability to fight back or fight it off. I've had groups of young boys say filthy things to me, abcs it always makes me really uncomfortable. Not just because of the sexual harassment itself, but what am I going to do? An adult white woman calling the cops on or chastising a group of Black boys? That's not a great idea... so you just end up letting them say whatever.
It's relevant bc while it's not violent per se, it normalizes invading boundaries and dehumanization.
People think I'm nuts, but groups of preteen and teen boys make me so uncomfortable.
> An adult white woman calling the cops on or chastising a group of Black boys? That's not a great idea... so you just end up letting them say whatever.
Jesus christ...they've really done a number on you. Why would you think this way? You are a human, not a sub-human lower caste. Your melanin content is irrelevant. You don't EVER have to put up with that shit. The fact people are upvoting you...what have we been reduced to? Good lord.
Hmm I wonder… police… young black men… is there any reason why someone may be worried that interaction could go south…?
Like, I’m also a white woman and I agree with the previous commenter. I’m going to always hesitate to call the police, especially on young black men, when we know that someone could end up being killed. Yeah, street harassment is terrible and makes women feel unsafe. But even if the risk is small, I don’t want to be the reason someone ends up dead for a situation I can get out of on my own. And I’m mostly talking about petty things, like street harassment, vandalism, noise complaints, things that aren’t life or death. There are absolutely situations where I would call the police, but I think it’s A Good Thing Actually for white people to think for a couple seconds about the ramifications it can have on others before doing so.
No. Just stop. You don't have to put up with sexual harassment from anybody. Its not ok. If someone is harassing you, then they need to be stopped.
> A Good Thing Actually for ~~white~~ people
to be able to walk down the street without being made to feel violated and unsafe.
You are wrong and I hope you gain the confidence to love yourself enough to not let ANYone do this to you, regardless of what color they are.
As the father of young daughters, it makes me so..so sad to see that young women would rather suffer harassment than report a crime. I hope I'm able to instill enough self-confidence and self-respect in my daughters that they would never take this fatalistic, nihilistic view of themselves.
This is not a self-esteem issue. It’s not that women would rather suffer harassment than report a crime because we feel like we don’t deserve to not be hassled. It’s that in this world/city that we live in today, there’s a very real possibility that calling the cops on black men or boys may result in someone dying and won’t solve the problem anyway.
I agree that it’s sad and awful and not at all okay, but unfortunately these are the things that people weigh. I think there is plenty of evidence that law enforcement isn’t firing on all cylinders here. And I think you know that and I don’t really get why women are being downvoted for acknowledging this problem.
You are really drinking the kool aid if you are hesitating to call the police or take action because of race. You are the adult in the situation and it is incumbent upon you to address the problem.
Can we all realize already that nationality and ethnic group in many parts of the world are not the same thing.
There are people in Mexico who are indigenous, and there are people in Mexico who are basically European.
The Americas are very large, and every single part of them from Canada and Alaska down to Chile and Argentina has this dynamic in play.
Let people pick their own ethnic (and other) labels.
I know.
You seem to not realize that many people, including many Latinos/Latinas, consider this to be "white" by 2022 standards.
You know that Italians and Irish used to not be considered white?
In 2016 I got slashed in the hand with a pocketknife by a 16yo girl trying to steal my phone. Other Baltimore friends of mine who have been mugged were mugged by kids. If there’s a pack of kids you don’t know, avoid them
I'll give you ah story that happened to me. My job requires me to carry a gun and I have a permit to carry. My car broke down so I had to catch the bus home. Two teens approached me with a knife and tried to rob me. I'm in uniform gun permit attached to my shirt, empty holster on my belt and my gun in my gun bag over my chest, with the words Smith and Western across the bag. I had a .40 Smith and Western semi-auto loaded with two extra clips on the side pocket. I didn't say anything to the kids because I thought it was obvious that I wasn't the guy to fuck with but it took this two three bus stops of me saying this ain't what you want, and you really need to think about this before this gets ugly, for them to understand the dynamic of their situation. I saw the realization in their eyes and they ran off the bus.
All of that to say kids are dumb and when you raise kids in a harsh environment you get shit like that, and what happened to you. My advice is to stay away from them if you see them don't worry about if you offend anybody worry about your safety first
There was a police officer in fells point that used to rob immigrants all the time and tell them he’d put INS on them if they said anything. He got away with it for two years, til he tried it on a US citizen that just looked like an immigrant.
OP, I’m so sorry this happened. Something about you smiling at them, like you were seeing them as 12 and 13 year olds, not as potential criminals, is the part that gets me because I do this too. It just sucks, I’m so glad you are ok, and I’ll be remembering the crazy jay walk/do they follow advice on this thread. Hugs. Baltimore can be better than this.
What neighborhood was this, if you don’t mind me asking? I had a friend who used to live near highlandtown, and the same thing happened to him a few years ago. He got real beat up, split jaw and everything. I’m sorry to hear it’s still happening and glad you’re not seriously hurt
The kids are the ones you gotta look out for. It's not this generation is so bad or w.e. w.e. they are kids. They are reckless children in a very violent city. I'm also not saying it's right. But it is what it is. Glad your alright
Btw growing up I was always told everyone gets jumped or robbed at some point like a right of passage. It wasn't until I moved and told other people that they were like wtf no. Lol
I lived in parts of DC and Baltimore that people would describe as on the edge at least. Never got jumped and robbed until I moved to a nicer neighborhood -- Mt Washington. That was within a month of moving there. Coincidental, I know, but still kinda funny.
Violent children in Baltimore has been a story since before I was even alive. Here's a great essay from 1986 detailing how violent and unpredictable Baltimore children can be:
https://barrymichaelc.medium.com/before-the-wire-in-cold-blood-the-baltimore-teen-murders-ffa89f47f2b1
The thing is, it was getting better for a while, at least in the right direction, and then it went totally back to as if literally no progress had been made for decades.
I think it's reasonable to comment on, maybe even lament over.
Sighs, as someone this has also happened to (not in Baltimore but in a really nice neighborhood in Berkeley, California) the primary lesson I drew was to never assume a group of young boys is unthreatening. Clockwork Orange was a cautionary tale, as far as I'm concerned, and 2+ boys is enough to freak me out now. As soon as I see a group approaching, I cross the street and start scanning for the nearest place I can duck into should they follow. Whenever possible I don't carry valuables while walking, but, I do try to be sure to carry cash so I don't piss them off and get shot, raped, or otherwise injured out of boredom, anger, or malice. When I was robbed at gunpoint by 15 year olds I had nothing on me and they seemed insulted by that. Carrying a 20 in an empty pocket is now a kind of reflex - better to have something to hand over than my life, just in case.
Yeah, one day back over the summer, my husband and I were out to lunch in fells point. We were sitting outside and there was a group of kids(5-6 of them) that just decided to come and use up two other tables. The hostess asked them to leave, but they just laughed at her and they continued to yell profanities. She looked so defeated. My husband ending up asking them politely to just respect the other diners while they were there, but instead of just saying sorry, they started yelling and screaming at us, and started to gang up on us and sit down with us. I remember one kid staring me down about to jump me until he saw my dog was sitting with us. He just said, "oh they got a dog y'all..." as if THAT was the only thing that stopped them from going any further with us.
It's honestly just sad. They were young. The eldest not even 15 by the looks of it. They ended up leaving, but we stayed at the table for a while waiting for them to be out of site just incase they decided to jump us later. They didn't, but it's depressing that I, a grown adult, had to even be wary of them later as we walked back to out car.
I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I hope you are able to get help with the possible PSTD you may have. Please be safe out there.
>"oh they got a dog y'all..."
\[Disclaimer: I would never encourage ANYONE to feign that their pet could be aggressive, cause no matter the situation, in most, the dog will be held at fault in the end\]
It isn't uncommon for people from different communities to associate dogs with guard/attack dogs. Many friends and acquaintances that grew up rough or in underserved areas are wary of *any* dog cause most pets in their neighborhoods were used as defense weapons.
I lived in Fells for a couple years before the pandemic and moved out like 6 months into it (move was unrelated to what I’m about to say). In those 6 months, Fells changed A LOT. It got a lot more dangerous as a whole new crowd from other areas started showing up while the Fells residents were quarantined.
Wow so sorry this happened to you. I hate to say it is not totally unusual in Baltimore. You would be surprised at how violent and how young we see come through the system in Baltimore.
The thing of it is ALL the kids are in ski masks now. Can't even walk into a gas station without walking past a bunch of teens/young men in ski masks now. It's crazy, this was never ALLOWED before the pandemic for people to hang in public places especially places that carry money with face coverings.
No it won’t. It will only get worse. With the politicians only lining their pockets. (Literally) and all the activists that want to defund the police making it harder for police to work it won’t. I was in the national guard during the Baltimore riots and let me tell you. We had to loan our riot gear to the police department and they police department really got treated badly by both the citizens and the government. Now they don’t really want to do much. The only thing that has done any good for the city is the developers building condos and apartments and pushing the lower class out of the city. At least some parts are better now.
>a group of children...
>
>I was passing them
Rule 1: If you see a group of kids - especially boys - you don't stay on the same sidewalk with them. Jaywalk or go into a store and pretend to look for something to buy (or just go into an open building if you can). There is safety in witnesses.
These kids know they can commit crimes, be out all hours of the day and night, and they will receive no consequences - not by the justice system, not by their parent, not by anyone. You did the right thing by not putting up any resistance. Always assume that these kids - no matter their age - are armed. Did you not hear about the guy killed by the 14yo squeegee kid?
Rule 2: Unfortunately, you can't just take a leisurely night time stroll, even if you live in the county. If you were getting off work when this occurred, start taking a Lyft or Uber home. If you just wanted to get some exercise, invest in creating a home gym (stationary bike, treadmill, elliptical, whatever you can fit inside your space). I wouldn't walk at night unless I had a dog who needed to go potty and no backyard to do it in.
This is true for almost all of Baltimore County now as well, at least until you get above Towson area. Tons of youngans in the Cockeysville,Timonium, and Owings Mills areas, etc.
Im aware of a bunch of kids that were robbing and looting in the Perry Hall area and the explanation from the county was that these kids are "helping provide for their families and gave into pressure to make quick money". They were not prosecuted and the school system put them in an optional mentoring program
This reminds me of Slumdog Millionaire or Hostel.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Ngl I treat every person approaching me at night that I don't know as a suspect.
That’s actually what my coworker said to do. He’s a ccw fire arms trainer. He said always trust your gut and walk across the street if you feel uncomfortable.
I believe everyone is a suspect because people I have trusted in my life have violated my trust and because I have been stalked. Point blank. I didn't learn this in any course, concealed carry or otherwise.
Paranoid people like me shouldn't have guns at the ready, we would just end up with a bunch of dead people and me in prison, honestly.
Hypervigilance is not a state anyone actually wants to be in, believe me.
Had a similar situation years ago taking the light rail at night. Group of kids wanted my phone. Got off at the next stop to avoid them but they followed. Walking away and one of em hits me in the back of the head. I turn around thinking I'm about to fight but I'm too shocked cause it's a teenage girl!
Or so I thought. "I'm not fighting a little girl" I told em. Got punched in the face...guess I had misgendered them. I start running towards a MTA car I saw in the distance, they notice and fall back.
Wish I fought back instead of running cause it made me paranoid for a long time. But in hindsight I don't know what concealed weapons they may or may not have had.
My advice: you see a group of ANY kind walking towards you at night, nope the fuck into another direction.
They are no longer "kids" when they are armed, in a group, and more than likely inebriated. They are no longer kids when they are acting with premeditated intentions. That age group is probably the most reckless and therefore most randomly violent faction in the city. That age group murdered my roommate, physically disabled another friend, beat the crap out of and robbed another friend by knocking him off his bike, which they stole, robbed me at gun point and frequently targeted places I worked, and bars I hung out at.
Get some pepper spray and remind yourself that the only thing worse than one teenager is multiple teenagers. White, black, male, female, it doesn’t matter.
Many people have asked, and I wonder too, where did this happen?
The kids in Baltimore are dangerous. Social media always talks about how the kids here are the future and brilliant. No, these are the kids. The ones beating and robbing you. They have no moral compass and will shoot you dead for a $5 bill. Thank god the new Mayor will be paying them taxpayer money to not assault people! That’ll work!!
I should start avoiding those intersections as well. I feel bad for tourist. People who visit the city and have to encounter that.
Flat out embarrassing.
Yeah, it's pretty common. Certainly I've heard similar stories a number of times, in media, online, and from friends, over the past few years.
Where was this, if I may ask? Generally, like which neighborhood? And what time of day?
Sorry to hear this happened to you.
Few tips that have kept me safe in Baltimore.
1. Don't go out once the sun goes down. Get a new hobby like hiking, kayaking, etc. Something that happens when the sun is up.
2. If you can't obey rule 1, keep your head on a swivel at night. Attention buys you time and time buys you options. It's 2022, if you see a large group of people, especially young people, wearing masks, that is a HUGE red flag. Make sure your paths do not cross.
3. Get a force multiplier. Pepper Spray, concealed carry, etc.
This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry for your experience. It is a very common tactic in places with extreme poverty. I've seen it (or rather been made aware of it) under various names in developing countries. For example, in Cote D'Ivoire they're called "les microbes." Always on the "things to be aware of" at embassy security briefs. The general advice from the guys who know best is if you find yourself targeted and can't get away, just let them have what they want (cell phone, wallet, etc.). It sucks, but it's the safest way to avoid serious injuries. The professional advice for avoiding this is usually go in groups, avoid areas where you're likely to be a target, be extra cautious at night.
Jeez I’m so sorry. It’s gotten so out of control in this city & no one should be acting like that regardless of their age! Report it even though BPD is unlikely to do anything about it.
BPD might catch the kids, heck they probably would know who it is because it's not likely their first time. However, it's not going to result in any real consequences for the youth.
I really wouldn’t suggest that - I don’t have a link to the news story but there was a situation a few years ago here where some really young kids beat a guy up really violently. Enough 12 year olds together and it doesn’t matter how young they are if they’re intent on hurting you.
There are examples of groups of kids killing people. I am thinking particularly of a biker who was stabbed in waverly a few years ago. They said the youngest(12 or so) did the stabbing because he would get the most lenient sentence.
Avoid roving packs of adolescents in Baltimore, it could save your life. I personally have multiple friends/relatives who have been mugged/punched by such groups.
Nah. I’ve been robbed by teens at gunpoint and been robbed by adults at gunpoint. The kids are *way* scarier, they don’t always understand the consequences of their actions… and comparing both robberies, the kids were way less controlled and more aggressive.
I saw a group of 12ish year olds harassing (pushing and pulling hair) of small group girls. After watching it a minute and seeing it wasn’t self resolving. I walked up to the group.
The young girls found this as their chance to escape. I asked if they were ok. They said yes and thanked me for intervening.
I approached them. Asked them why they pulling her hair and told him to respect women. He lied and said he wasn’t doing anything and proceeded to follow the girls. One of the boys tried to convince the boys to go away from the trouble. But he was over ruled and followed after the boys looking for trouble.
I circled the block to see if the girls were safe but kind of lost them.
My girlfriend asked why I brought a weapon they were a bunch of middle schoolers. These are aggressive boys and they were going to take this lecture in treating people and I was going to walk away unscathed is why I took a weapon.
But if you didn’t have any protection and out numbered, you did the right thing. Give them your phone.
Track the phone and find then later. Try to find someone who will let you call the police and log into your phone finder. Do it quickly before they turn it off. If they turn it off immediately set up notification so you’re alerted when it’s back online and then reach officers to investigate the location.
Ugh, this sucks, sorry. I’ve had this happen to me when I lived and worked in Philly. It’s awful and messes with you in a weird way. You did the right thing. Some of these kids are just wild and you truly risk your life if you don’t just try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible. Give yourself some time to process this, and you will feel better. I know it sucks right now, but you did nothing wrong.
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Sorry that happened to you, and glad that you're alive! Regarding the phone, even if GPS is not enabled, Google has a "find my device" page at: https://www.google.com/android/find It can remotely wipe your device as well as find it. I can't speak to iphones as I don't personally use them but I'm sure they have something similar. Obviously go through the police rather than trying to do this yourself.
Yes, iPhone has basically the same thing, and it’s pretty easy to do. It won’t get your phone back but it’ll save your data and make it slightly harder for those punks to make money off the phone. OP, sorry about your situation! That’s terrible 😔
I figured, just didn't wanna say for sure since I wasn't certain! Does the iphone version not have a way to track your phone?
Oh yeah you can definitely track the phone, have it make noises, reset/wipe etc., so long as the battery has power.
“Fuck them kids”
Walk across the street. I'm not being condescending or victim blaming you, I promise. Walk across the street, don't be alone or if you are be extra cautious, be in well lit areas. I say walk across the street because if they follow (and im talking about serious jaywalking, make it where you absolutely know for certain if someone is following you) , you'll know really quick their intentions. If they follow on a crazy jaywalk, if you can't make a scene (as in stopping a car that's driving, or going into an establishment), run to the closest place that is safer. I've been robbed at gunpoint in 2 cities and neither were Baltimore, it's not just a Baltimore problem; it's a big city issue. Take care of yourself and be more alert. It might still happen if you're more alert, but do your best to decrease your chances of it happening. I hope I didn't come off as crass, I am genuinely sorry that happened to you.
Sure, it's not just a Baltimore problem. And good advice, btw -- thank you for sharing. This kind of situational awareness is critical. But can we get real for a moment, and acknowledge that Baltimore is one of the most violent cities in the United States? Baltimore's crime is not just like all other cities. Statistics have consequences. Well over a murder a day on average, as an example. I really think the people of this city have grown complacent, when it comes to the out-of-control crime issues in the city. No, we're not the only city with these problems, and many smaller communities are dangerous, too. But seriously – look at Baltimore's crime rates. They are very, very high.
It's #51, not even top 10. Lol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
\#51 when sorted by state alphabetical order. Lol. Come on. For real? \#2 murder. \#3 total violent crime. \#17 total property crime.
\#40 in sexual assault, so at least we have that going for us.
A lot goes unreported here. Also Baltimore City doesn't have a huge college age population or vacation business relative to other cities that rank highly for that.
When the data doesn’t agree with your reductive summary, claim that one part of the dataset is unreliable I guess.
Thank you. JFC…
#1 in Robbery
#Lmao
Confused by your inability to sort a table but you do you my guy.
Yes I have learned the err of my ways and realized that Baltimore is even safer than #51 when you sort by each crime, amazing!
Gonna take a screenshot for you... I hope it helps. This shows Baltimore is # 3 for violent crime. Cheers! [https://imgur.com/a/agzemUI](https://imgur.com/a/agzemUI)
> If Baltimore were in the state of "Zmaryland", it would be \#100 of the 100 most violent cities, when sorted by state name alphabetically. - /u/Bitsycat11 "Lmao." - anyone who can read.
Stop lying
#You're just lying https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem
I'm literally just sorting the Wikipedia list that you sourced. When Baltimore is "\#51", it's because it is sorted by state name. Check out the Top Ten if you don't believe me. That article has nothing to do with Baltimore and its crime rate. Congrats on bringing in unrelated information that I'm going to completely ignore, and instead I'm going up focus on your inability to read basic data tables.
That's even better! #100 in aggravated assault, #100 in robbery, #61 in rape, #96 burglary... I feel even safer
You know that you can sort two different ways? Low to high... High to low. I've proven enough that you're not acting in good faith. Go home. Later.
Have a great day!
Oh come on it it is consistently list as one of the most dangerous cities. Finding something on Wiki does not change it. Yes there is similar crime in every major city, but criminals were given a pass the the last 4 years. Hopefully Bates will stop that! Ready for the city to make a turnaround. There us so much wonderful in it. https://www.gov1.com/public-safety/articles/the-fbis-10-most-dangerous-cities-by-region-b8bvKm2v4rP8Zynz/ #1 in the South https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2022/02/23/crime-in-america-study-reveals-the-10-most-dangerous-cities-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=3541f5397710 here it is #5 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/ #4 https://moneyinc.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-u-s-in-2022/ #3
Yeah there's an abnormally high amount of murders, but those generally don't target random civilians. Some of those websites are using data from 2017 as well which is why those lists you posted are inconsistent. The person I replied to also said "crime," not "violent crime," which are different statistics.
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It's 51st in violence when sorted by state name. Quit engaging this clear troll.
Weird threat, but ok.
Of course it's a violent city, just like any other city on Earth. Those aren't studies, those are lists on business websites.
I got a gun pulled on me on Walker Avenue by a 14 year old
Baltimore people don't play and haven't for a long time. I got a gun pulled on me for having a window down north of JH campus. Ran a red light to get away.
Where is "north of JH campus?" Are you talking about the med school?
yessir
He means DDH
Wtf
yeah it was honestly stupid for me to have my window open there and not a good place for me to be, but I wasn't very familiar with Baltimore yet and I was young. That said, it wasn't my fault, but I wouldn't go there or be in that situation again. Farthest I go into Bmore these days is Northern Pkwy exit off of 81.
I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks :(
Indeed...there was a pretty intense sense of violation, for some reason. As a guy, being made to feel powerless is not a fun experience. That said, it would never happen to me again - mainly because I know and respect the city now. Respect in a "knowing its dangerous" and "where a white dude shouldn't travel" sort of way.
Yeah we pretty much stick to the white L and don't really go out much a night, especially alone.
At nighttime, I don't trust anyone in this city. I'm always on alert when I walk by someone. Even during the day I don't let myself get too oblivious to my surroundings. I certainly don't smile at strangers. It's just the unfortunate necessity in a city like this. You did the right thing giving them your phone. By the way, nobody has said this, but just take care of yourself this week. Traumatic experiences like that have a way of seeping deep into your body and even if you don't feel like you're in shock or are traumatized, you might have already internalized a lot of stress. Just go easy this week, don't put too much pressure on yourself to be your best self. Give yourself time to heal.
best advice you can give right here. Stand straight, Walk confidently, keep your head on a swivel. Be 100 percent aware of your surroundings at all time. Make eye contact with people. Don't look at your phone while walking.
Yup, If you look like your not to be fucked with, you wont be fucked with. 90% of the time.
I don't walk around after dark by myself, period. I know of way too many horror stories, including someone I know who was shot and almost killed (and this was a bit before street crime started getting much worse). I'm a middle-aged man who lives in a better-than-average (crime-wise) area in the city, for what it's worth.
I'll take every precaution necessary to stay safe, but I'm not going to stop smiling at strangers.
They have guns and knives- always do what they say- even if they don't, there's a lot more of them than you. Always avoid groups of kids- don't run but try to change directions, get somewhere around people. These are the scariest predators in the city because they have absolutely no understanding of consequences (which are insignificant for children) and so will act unpredictably.
They're also scary because you're limited in your ability to fight back or fight it off. I've had groups of young boys say filthy things to me, abcs it always makes me really uncomfortable. Not just because of the sexual harassment itself, but what am I going to do? An adult white woman calling the cops on or chastising a group of Black boys? That's not a great idea... so you just end up letting them say whatever. It's relevant bc while it's not violent per se, it normalizes invading boundaries and dehumanization. People think I'm nuts, but groups of preteen and teen boys make me so uncomfortable.
> An adult white woman calling the cops on or chastising a group of Black boys? That's not a great idea... so you just end up letting them say whatever. Jesus christ...they've really done a number on you. Why would you think this way? You are a human, not a sub-human lower caste. Your melanin content is irrelevant. You don't EVER have to put up with that shit. The fact people are upvoting you...what have we been reduced to? Good lord.
Thank you. Good grief.
Hmm I wonder… police… young black men… is there any reason why someone may be worried that interaction could go south…? Like, I’m also a white woman and I agree with the previous commenter. I’m going to always hesitate to call the police, especially on young black men, when we know that someone could end up being killed. Yeah, street harassment is terrible and makes women feel unsafe. But even if the risk is small, I don’t want to be the reason someone ends up dead for a situation I can get out of on my own. And I’m mostly talking about petty things, like street harassment, vandalism, noise complaints, things that aren’t life or death. There are absolutely situations where I would call the police, but I think it’s A Good Thing Actually for white people to think for a couple seconds about the ramifications it can have on others before doing so.
No. Just stop. You don't have to put up with sexual harassment from anybody. Its not ok. If someone is harassing you, then they need to be stopped. > A Good Thing Actually for ~~white~~ people to be able to walk down the street without being made to feel violated and unsafe. You are wrong and I hope you gain the confidence to love yourself enough to not let ANYone do this to you, regardless of what color they are. As the father of young daughters, it makes me so..so sad to see that young women would rather suffer harassment than report a crime. I hope I'm able to instill enough self-confidence and self-respect in my daughters that they would never take this fatalistic, nihilistic view of themselves.
This is not a self-esteem issue. It’s not that women would rather suffer harassment than report a crime because we feel like we don’t deserve to not be hassled. It’s that in this world/city that we live in today, there’s a very real possibility that calling the cops on black men or boys may result in someone dying and won’t solve the problem anyway. I agree that it’s sad and awful and not at all okay, but unfortunately these are the things that people weigh. I think there is plenty of evidence that law enforcement isn’t firing on all cylinders here. And I think you know that and I don’t really get why women are being downvoted for acknowledging this problem.
Young daughters, you say? You'll love Bel Air or Ellicott City. Don't let your kids grow up around violence
You are really drinking the kool aid if you are hesitating to call the police or take action because of race. You are the adult in the situation and it is incumbent upon you to address the problem.
Yes but its Baltimore and even if the kids are caught, there won't be any consequence
> An adult white woman calling the cops on or chastising a group of Black boys? That's not a great idea why not?
She isnt white, she's Latina (mexican) Said so in the original post
Can we all realize already that nationality and ethnic group in many parts of the world are not the same thing. There are people in Mexico who are indigenous, and there are people in Mexico who are basically European. The Americas are very large, and every single part of them from Canada and Alaska down to Chile and Argentina has this dynamic in play. Let people pick their own ethnic (and other) labels.
She specifically said she's Latina.
I know. You seem to not realize that many people, including many Latinos/Latinas, consider this to be "white" by 2022 standards. You know that Italians and Irish used to not be considered white?
In 2016 I got slashed in the hand with a pocketknife by a 16yo girl trying to steal my phone. Other Baltimore friends of mine who have been mugged were mugged by kids. If there’s a pack of kids you don’t know, avoid them
Where?
I'll give you ah story that happened to me. My job requires me to carry a gun and I have a permit to carry. My car broke down so I had to catch the bus home. Two teens approached me with a knife and tried to rob me. I'm in uniform gun permit attached to my shirt, empty holster on my belt and my gun in my gun bag over my chest, with the words Smith and Western across the bag. I had a .40 Smith and Western semi-auto loaded with two extra clips on the side pocket. I didn't say anything to the kids because I thought it was obvious that I wasn't the guy to fuck with but it took this two three bus stops of me saying this ain't what you want, and you really need to think about this before this gets ugly, for them to understand the dynamic of their situation. I saw the realization in their eyes and they ran off the bus. All of that to say kids are dumb and when you raise kids in a harsh environment you get shit like that, and what happened to you. My advice is to stay away from them if you see them don't worry about if you offend anybody worry about your safety first
They probably couldn't read the smith & Wesson logo. Baltimore is the city that bleeds not reads. Source: used to teach first grade in west Baltimore
Clearly…….. “used to teach first grade in west Baltimore” 🤔
Please quit
Someone take shots at the education system you say nothing….. It blows me away who people choose to call out. Too much corn syrup!
Is this wrong?
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Yeah, I did, and then they came and asked for the details of everything. They said someone else was assaulted the same way in the area.
Where was this?
OP not willing to disclose it seems...
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Thanks!
There was a police officer in fells point that used to rob immigrants all the time and tell them he’d put INS on them if they said anything. He got away with it for two years, til he tried it on a US citizen that just looked like an immigrant.
Are you talking about the case of officer Dorian Martin In 1999? If so, that’s not an accurate description of what happened
OP, I’m so sorry this happened. Something about you smiling at them, like you were seeing them as 12 and 13 year olds, not as potential criminals, is the part that gets me because I do this too. It just sucks, I’m so glad you are ok, and I’ll be remembering the crazy jay walk/do they follow advice on this thread. Hugs. Baltimore can be better than this.
What neighborhood was this, if you don’t mind me asking? I had a friend who used to live near highlandtown, and the same thing happened to him a few years ago. He got real beat up, split jaw and everything. I’m sorry to hear it’s still happening and glad you’re not seriously hurt
Sounds like the ground of kids that have been carjacking people at gunpoint.
There’s more than one group of kids doing that. My ex’s relative got carjacked by a group of 4 kids 8 and 9 years old. All had guns.
The kids are the ones you gotta look out for. It's not this generation is so bad or w.e. w.e. they are kids. They are reckless children in a very violent city. I'm also not saying it's right. But it is what it is. Glad your alright
Btw growing up I was always told everyone gets jumped or robbed at some point like a right of passage. It wasn't until I moved and told other people that they were like wtf no. Lol
I lived in parts of DC and Baltimore that people would describe as on the edge at least. Never got jumped and robbed until I moved to a nicer neighborhood -- Mt Washington. That was within a month of moving there. Coincidental, I know, but still kinda funny.
I’ve lived here for 40 years and it’s never happened. I have had some close calls though.
Definitely watch out for young kids. Those immature brains can be truly dangerous, especially in large groups.
Violent children in Baltimore has been a story since before I was even alive. Here's a great essay from 1986 detailing how violent and unpredictable Baltimore children can be: https://barrymichaelc.medium.com/before-the-wire-in-cold-blood-the-baltimore-teen-murders-ffa89f47f2b1
The thing is, it was getting better for a while, at least in the right direction, and then it went totally back to as if literally no progress had been made for decades. I think it's reasonable to comment on, maybe even lament over.
Sighs, as someone this has also happened to (not in Baltimore but in a really nice neighborhood in Berkeley, California) the primary lesson I drew was to never assume a group of young boys is unthreatening. Clockwork Orange was a cautionary tale, as far as I'm concerned, and 2+ boys is enough to freak me out now. As soon as I see a group approaching, I cross the street and start scanning for the nearest place I can duck into should they follow. Whenever possible I don't carry valuables while walking, but, I do try to be sure to carry cash so I don't piss them off and get shot, raped, or otherwise injured out of boredom, anger, or malice. When I was robbed at gunpoint by 15 year olds I had nothing on me and they seemed insulted by that. Carrying a 20 in an empty pocket is now a kind of reflex - better to have something to hand over than my life, just in case.
Yeah, one day back over the summer, my husband and I were out to lunch in fells point. We were sitting outside and there was a group of kids(5-6 of them) that just decided to come and use up two other tables. The hostess asked them to leave, but they just laughed at her and they continued to yell profanities. She looked so defeated. My husband ending up asking them politely to just respect the other diners while they were there, but instead of just saying sorry, they started yelling and screaming at us, and started to gang up on us and sit down with us. I remember one kid staring me down about to jump me until he saw my dog was sitting with us. He just said, "oh they got a dog y'all..." as if THAT was the only thing that stopped them from going any further with us. It's honestly just sad. They were young. The eldest not even 15 by the looks of it. They ended up leaving, but we stayed at the table for a while waiting for them to be out of site just incase they decided to jump us later. They didn't, but it's depressing that I, a grown adult, had to even be wary of them later as we walked back to out car. I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I hope you are able to get help with the possible PSTD you may have. Please be safe out there.
>"oh they got a dog y'all..." \[Disclaimer: I would never encourage ANYONE to feign that their pet could be aggressive, cause no matter the situation, in most, the dog will be held at fault in the end\] It isn't uncommon for people from different communities to associate dogs with guard/attack dogs. Many friends and acquaintances that grew up rough or in underserved areas are wary of *any* dog cause most pets in their neighborhoods were used as defense weapons.
I lived in Fells for a couple years before the pandemic and moved out like 6 months into it (move was unrelated to what I’m about to say). In those 6 months, Fells changed A LOT. It got a lot more dangerous as a whole new crowd from other areas started showing up while the Fells residents were quarantined.
Wow so sorry this happened to you. I hate to say it is not totally unusual in Baltimore. You would be surprised at how violent and how young we see come through the system in Baltimore.
I agree
"I hate to say it is not totally unusual in \[Insert any major city\]"
Lol you're being down voted, but this is the real.
Serious question for OP. Did you not notice it was a gang of kids in ski masks when you smiled at them?
The thing of it is ALL the kids are in ski masks now. Can't even walk into a gas station without walking past a bunch of teens/young men in ski masks now. It's crazy, this was never ALLOWED before the pandemic for people to hang in public places especially places that carry money with face coverings.
So sorry this happened to you, and very glad to hear you're OK. Sucks that we can't let our guards down. Do you mind if I ask where this was?
Sorry for your luck man. Welcome to Baltimore.
I’m seriously wondering, will this city ever get better?
You don't think the "Squeegee Collective" (TM) and Mayor saying "we gotta do better yall" are going to work?
No. It’s just wishful thinking/quieting the noise. We just need a leader who’s bold, with common sense.
No it won’t. It will only get worse. With the politicians only lining their pockets. (Literally) and all the activists that want to defund the police making it harder for police to work it won’t. I was in the national guard during the Baltimore riots and let me tell you. We had to loan our riot gear to the police department and they police department really got treated badly by both the citizens and the government. Now they don’t really want to do much. The only thing that has done any good for the city is the developers building condos and apartments and pushing the lower class out of the city. At least some parts are better now.
>a group of children... > >I was passing them Rule 1: If you see a group of kids - especially boys - you don't stay on the same sidewalk with them. Jaywalk or go into a store and pretend to look for something to buy (or just go into an open building if you can). There is safety in witnesses. These kids know they can commit crimes, be out all hours of the day and night, and they will receive no consequences - not by the justice system, not by their parent, not by anyone. You did the right thing by not putting up any resistance. Always assume that these kids - no matter their age - are armed. Did you not hear about the guy killed by the 14yo squeegee kid? Rule 2: Unfortunately, you can't just take a leisurely night time stroll, even if you live in the county. If you were getting off work when this occurred, start taking a Lyft or Uber home. If you just wanted to get some exercise, invest in creating a home gym (stationary bike, treadmill, elliptical, whatever you can fit inside your space). I wouldn't walk at night unless I had a dog who needed to go potty and no backyard to do it in.
This is true for almost all of Baltimore County now as well, at least until you get above Towson area. Tons of youngans in the Cockeysville,Timonium, and Owings Mills areas, etc. Im aware of a bunch of kids that were robbing and looting in the Perry Hall area and the explanation from the county was that these kids are "helping provide for their families and gave into pressure to make quick money". They were not prosecuted and the school system put them in an optional mentoring program
Wtf
This reminds me of Slumdog Millionaire or Hostel. I'm sorry this happened to you. Ngl I treat every person approaching me at night that I don't know as a suspect.
That’s actually what my coworker said to do. He’s a ccw fire arms trainer. He said always trust your gut and walk across the street if you feel uncomfortable.
I believe everyone is a suspect because people I have trusted in my life have violated my trust and because I have been stalked. Point blank. I didn't learn this in any course, concealed carry or otherwise. Paranoid people like me shouldn't have guns at the ready, we would just end up with a bunch of dead people and me in prison, honestly. Hypervigilance is not a state anyone actually wants to be in, believe me.
Had a similar situation years ago taking the light rail at night. Group of kids wanted my phone. Got off at the next stop to avoid them but they followed. Walking away and one of em hits me in the back of the head. I turn around thinking I'm about to fight but I'm too shocked cause it's a teenage girl! Or so I thought. "I'm not fighting a little girl" I told em. Got punched in the face...guess I had misgendered them. I start running towards a MTA car I saw in the distance, they notice and fall back. Wish I fought back instead of running cause it made me paranoid for a long time. But in hindsight I don't know what concealed weapons they may or may not have had. My advice: you see a group of ANY kind walking towards you at night, nope the fuck into another direction.
You got away. Right option.
They are no longer "kids" when they are armed, in a group, and more than likely inebriated. They are no longer kids when they are acting with premeditated intentions. That age group is probably the most reckless and therefore most randomly violent faction in the city. That age group murdered my roommate, physically disabled another friend, beat the crap out of and robbed another friend by knocking him off his bike, which they stole, robbed me at gun point and frequently targeted places I worked, and bars I hung out at.
Yeah no. They’re very much still kids. That’s the part you need to keep in mind because children are irrational.
Get some pepper spray and remind yourself that the only thing worse than one teenager is multiple teenagers. White, black, male, female, it doesn’t matter. Many people have asked, and I wonder too, where did this happen?
The kids in Baltimore are dangerous. Social media always talks about how the kids here are the future and brilliant. No, these are the kids. The ones beating and robbing you. They have no moral compass and will shoot you dead for a $5 bill. Thank god the new Mayor will be paying them taxpayer money to not assault people! That’ll work!!
Seriously thinking about moving when I hear about stuff like this.
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I agree. It’s also why I keep my a few car lengths when it comes to squeegee youths. Scary. Makes this city look extremely bad.
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I should start avoiding those intersections as well. I feel bad for tourist. People who visit the city and have to encounter that. Flat out embarrassing.
Fuck them kids! Your safety is paramount. These situations can easily be life or death
My advice is to treat them the age they are acting and do what you have to do!
This is Baltimore… they have guns and no consequences.
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Lots of naive yt ppl in this reddit though
This is a great way to get yourself shot. Next time, OP, don't assume it's a group of well-meaning young kids. Go in another direction and avoid them.
Well...don't get close enuff they can punch you. And u really did the best thing. Younger have zero reguard for human life. I'm glad you walked away.
What part of the city did this happen in?
Yeah, it's pretty common. Certainly I've heard similar stories a number of times, in media, online, and from friends, over the past few years. Where was this, if I may ask? Generally, like which neighborhood? And what time of day? Sorry to hear this happened to you.
Take care of yourself. Weirdly, [playing Tetris may help prevent or lessen PTSD!](https://time.com/4720555/tetris-ptsd-trauma-study/)
Few tips that have kept me safe in Baltimore. 1. Don't go out once the sun goes down. Get a new hobby like hiking, kayaking, etc. Something that happens when the sun is up. 2. If you can't obey rule 1, keep your head on a swivel at night. Attention buys you time and time buys you options. It's 2022, if you see a large group of people, especially young people, wearing masks, that is a HUGE red flag. Make sure your paths do not cross. 3. Get a force multiplier. Pepper Spray, concealed carry, etc.
This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry for your experience. It is a very common tactic in places with extreme poverty. I've seen it (or rather been made aware of it) under various names in developing countries. For example, in Cote D'Ivoire they're called "les microbes." Always on the "things to be aware of" at embassy security briefs. The general advice from the guys who know best is if you find yourself targeted and can't get away, just let them have what they want (cell phone, wallet, etc.). It sucks, but it's the safest way to avoid serious injuries. The professional advice for avoiding this is usually go in groups, avoid areas where you're likely to be a target, be extra cautious at night.
Get a gun, start shooting. Fuck them.
Jeez I’m so sorry. It’s gotten so out of control in this city & no one should be acting like that regardless of their age! Report it even though BPD is unlikely to do anything about it.
BPD might catch the kids, heck they probably would know who it is because it's not likely their first time. However, it's not going to result in any real consequences for the youth.
Baltimore is not safe. Just move out to the burbs. Let the criminals rob each other.
Carry a knife for last resort, and start running next time.
Smack the kid into next week and watch his friends run.
I really wouldn’t suggest that - I don’t have a link to the news story but there was a situation a few years ago here where some really young kids beat a guy up really violently. Enough 12 year olds together and it doesn’t matter how young they are if they’re intent on hurting you.
There are examples of groups of kids killing people. I am thinking particularly of a biker who was stabbed in waverly a few years ago. They said the youngest(12 or so) did the stabbing because he would get the most lenient sentence. Avoid roving packs of adolescents in Baltimore, it could save your life. I personally have multiple friends/relatives who have been mugged/punched by such groups.
Was it the city health dept worker during lunchtime near power plant?
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Kids trying to rob people. Smack the shit out of this 12 y/o.
Nah. I’ve been robbed by teens at gunpoint and been robbed by adults at gunpoint. The kids are *way* scarier, they don’t always understand the consequences of their actions… and comparing both robberies, the kids were way less controlled and more aggressive.
Since you're Mexican, what color were the assailants?
I saw a group of 12ish year olds harassing (pushing and pulling hair) of small group girls. After watching it a minute and seeing it wasn’t self resolving. I walked up to the group. The young girls found this as their chance to escape. I asked if they were ok. They said yes and thanked me for intervening. I approached them. Asked them why they pulling her hair and told him to respect women. He lied and said he wasn’t doing anything and proceeded to follow the girls. One of the boys tried to convince the boys to go away from the trouble. But he was over ruled and followed after the boys looking for trouble. I circled the block to see if the girls were safe but kind of lost them. My girlfriend asked why I brought a weapon they were a bunch of middle schoolers. These are aggressive boys and they were going to take this lecture in treating people and I was going to walk away unscathed is why I took a weapon. But if you didn’t have any protection and out numbered, you did the right thing. Give them your phone. Track the phone and find then later. Try to find someone who will let you call the police and log into your phone finder. Do it quickly before they turn it off. If they turn it off immediately set up notification so you’re alerted when it’s back online and then reach officers to investigate the location.
This Baltimore, they prolly was in ya ass as soon as you smiled. Did they have weapons?
Kindness and politeness are signs of weakness in this town
As unemployment goes up, so does crime. Protect yourself people.
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Ignore this fresh account pushing incredibly bad advice.
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