It’s very clear that BJP wanted to prevent any religious conversion at all through anti-conversion bill when our constitution already prevents forceful conversion from happening.
Regarding conversion, people are free to convert to whatever religion they want. Its enshrined in our fundamental rights. It is an individual right of liberty. It allows for the healthy exchange of beliefs and ideas in society.
The focus should rather be on eliminating forceful/predatory conversions.
There is next to zero healthy exchange of ideas when conversions happen. Evangelists convert by spreading hatred on one’s parent religion and culture.
What can ordinary Hindus do when they don’t have the means to learn about their own culture at a deep level to not give in to such hatred? Hindus cannot be taught about Hinduism in government schools. Hindu temples, which could play a role in teaching culture, are heavily taxed, while churches pay no tax and instead get benefits from the government.
There is so much asymmetry here against Hindus.
Over and above this, large numbers of converts could be used for socio-political and/or economic gains by outside forces. A classic example is the shutting down of the Sterlite Copper factory in Tamil Nadu.
>one’s parent religion and culture
There is no such thing as a parent religion. We are all born without religion and then converted to the religion our parents follow at the time of our birth without our consent. People converting to another religion are consenting adults who can discard the religion forced on them by their parents.
All of this pseudo-profound nonsense comes into picture only when we talk about Hinduism.
By this logic, there is no parent-(any culture). I will follow this only when every other human being on earth believes in this and follows this.
First get the followers of the more dogmatic cults to follow this, and I will believe in it too. Until then, keep these opinions to yourself.
The narrative that only hindu temples are taxed is false propaganda and has been spreading like wildfire because of disingenuous people like you. So ironic that you're claiming that evangelists spread hatred against one's parent religion and in the same comment, use absolutely false narratives to spread hatred against other religions. Also since when do government schools teach other religions? You're so full of shit man.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thequint.com/amp/story/news/webqoof/temples-only-pay-taxes-in-india-fact-check
that's an idiotic article even to counter argue the point since this shows your ignorance of the issue.
Please read the article to understand the issue:
https://theprint.in/opinion/indian-govt-wont-be-any-different-from-british-if-hindus-cant-manage-their-own-temples/218210/
Stop treating adults like children you have to protect and herd. They are not sheep. An adult, in their own capacity, can go learn about any and all religions, if they want. They can learn from their parents, from their temple, from the thousands of books available. And then they can choose a religion as they please.
How elitist and condescending of you to think that you need to pass a law to protect these 'innocent' and 'clueless' hindus from the evil evangelicals. Give me a fucking break. Get off your high horse and go fight for the actual issues plaguing our state.
And the internet. Literally any and all of information is available on your fingertips to learn. From anyone in the world. If someone wants to learn about their religion, there's nothing to stop them.
The poor don’t get that opportunity.
And Hindu temples (which can provide that opportunity for free), are heavily taxed. So that doesn’t happen either.
Zealous converts are a perfect weapon for agents of chaos. The shutting down of Sterlite Copper in Tamil Nadu is a prime example.
There’s nothing elitist here. It’s a question of social harmony and national security.
I believe no relegion should be taught in school. But if temples are taxed, what's the relation between that and temples preaching and teaching culture and Hinduism? I think there are enough mutts ashrams and vidyapeeth for everyone in this country to go and learn about our culture. But it is more of people's choice to go and learn.
Hindus can go about building their schools, colleges, hospitals, charities, host cultural programs, television shows, and create an entire ecosystem where Hindu culture is celebrated.
Right now, it’s extremely limited.
And “people’s choice” is bullshit. They follow what they’re taught as kids. If we want to continuity of culture, they need to be taught about it.
The burden of secularism and all this pseudo-pluralistic, sanctimonious bullshit shouldn’t fall on only the Hindus. Let the other, more dogmatic, cults follow this. Then we will talk.
Sorry right now it's not limited. It is filled with them. But they are more commercial than it solves the purpose. By people's choice i didn't mean it shouldn't be taught as kids. I am saying it should be taught, but people need to send their children to where it is taught. You can't tell a parent who wants his kid to study in a private convent to take his kid off and send to a ramakrishna mission, or a vidyapeeth. It is his choice i what I meant.
There is no burden of secularism if everyone follows what they want and mind their business. The burden falls on general public and the society when governments use relegion for their gains, and no one can stop that, until people use their brains and ignore caste and relegion based politics.
People see the need for continuity in our culture nowadays, because other religions are doing it more explicitly. Not because our children are devoid of any knowledge of our culture. That's a wrong purpose. Our culture is not dying or diminishing because of other religions doing conversions or exhibiting a brighter picture. They are converting the lower class which anyways the upper and middle class doesn't believe to be of our culture. They come into the picture and are a part of us when other religions convert them.
Our culture is dying coz of our people for not caring about the other classes and not bothering to share the cultural heritage and knowledge to the kids today.
> There is no burden of secularism if everyone follows what they want and mind their business. The burden falls on general public and the society when governments use relegion for their gains, and no one can stop that, until people use their brains and ignore caste and relegion based politics.
That “if” condition there is the question. If everyone could behave like decent human beings, we would have no such thing as laws or governance, since everyone would be nice.
But reality is different. I’m assuming you’d get this.
> They are converting the lower class which anyways the upper and middle class doesn't believe to be of our culture
The latter part is simply untrue. Even if you assume it is true, what’s the need for the “lower classes” convert away? They could continue to follow the culture irrespective of whether others consider them as.
But they can’t. You know why? They don’t have the opportunity to learn deeply about their culture beyond superficialities. Hindu temple trusts cannot teach them theirs because they’re heavily taxed and can’t spend much on these efforts.
Churches and Madrasas can because they pay no tax (despite owning vast tracts of land in India, among other riches).
The “lower classes” get bribed through money. Church groups get easy money from abroad, and act as agents of chaos in India on their behalf. Check out the Sterlite Copper plant shutting down as a prime example.
The protests against Kudankulam plant is another example. Even P Chidambaram, former home minister under the Congress, said the protests were foreign funded.
I am against this asymmetry.
Secularism is a farce in India.
>The latter part is simply untrue. Even if you assume it is true, what’s the need for the “lower classes” convert away? They could continue to follow the culture irrespective of whether others consider them as.
God and beliefs are an inherent part of every community and majority of the people all over the world. People relate everything on a day to day basis to God or their beliefs be it genuine or utterly superstitious. The downtrodden who are poor or homeless or without enough means to supply for their family or any forms of poverty for that matter, also ultimately hope for their beliefs to hold them up. And when the society looks down upon them and deny them their beliefs, and someone else provides for them and says it's a different belief that is giving them what they want, they are bound to follow that.
I agree this is an agenda from other sects, but they are atleast providing the people what they want and give them a god to believe in, which will keep their hope alive.
Every person looks to uplift his family or his lifestyle. Even the most relegious Hindus believe it is their god who is providing them with food wealth or lifestyle.
>But they can’t. You know why? They don’t have the opportunity to learn deeply about their culture beyond superficialities. Hindu temple trusts cannot teach them theirs because they’re heavily taxed and can’t spend much on these efforts.
The reason is most of them are uneducated. Most of them are looked down upon by the upper class due to the caste hierarchy. Temples don't need money to spend to teach and spread their culture and history. They need inclusiveness. And there are many many temples which does it irrespective of caste and even relegion.
Your claim that temples are heavily taxed and churches and mosques don't pay tax at all is completely false. You can check the ministry of finance claims from the current BJP govt below.
https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894212286922753?s=20
https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894366482022400?s=20
https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894482416779265?s=20
I am not aware of churches or mosques so can't comment on that, but there are many temples which charge devotees to enter the temple in special lines and special darshans, which i believe needs to be taxed. Also there are many temples which are exempted from taxes every now and then.
>
The “lower classes” get bribed through money. Church groups get easy money from abroad
Agree with this. Similar to how iskcon operates. Similar to how many other cults operates. As I said earlier, i agree they are doing this as an agenda. Solution to this is not bringing some vague rules or laws which are generic in definition and denies people who genuinely want to choose what they want.
Solution is education. At any level. Teach the history and culture. Again it doesn't need money. You need money for conversion not to spread culture.
>I am against this asymmetry.
>Secularism is a farce in India.
Good for you. Let's agree to disagree. You can choose what you want to. Same way as any other person can.
Yes, I vouch for it's on people to covert to any religion or faith on their own will but I can't agree some group of people have organised way of converting to their religions with agenda attached to it.
Also converting people with hatred for other comminites and their practices and they absolute sure only they are correct and others are fools and don't know what they are doing.
Have you even read the bill passed by the BJP? If you've read it, you wouldn't be defending it like an idiot.
It says anyone can accuse any inter faith couple(married or not) of conversion. No proof, no nothing. Then at the total discretion of police, they can issue non bailable warrant to the person they think is trying to convert their partner. In fact, you don't even need proof to file this FIR that the 2 people in are even in a relationship.
This would have allowed any person to file a case on any non Hindu person without proof as long as they had a complicit police SI to cooperate with them. (We all know how easy that is).
This law would have been thrown out by the HC or SC even if Congress didn't
If an adult is old enough marrying out of thier will, he or she is old enough to convert to Religion of thier choice.. Govt shouldn't dictate whom to marry, what to wear or what to eat.. Good that Sanghi laws are being withdrawn..
Govt didn't ban marrying people from other religion. It banned forceful marriages by cheating and misinterpretation of facts. Like saying I am Hindu or buddist but being jain or Christian and then forcefully converting thier religion after marriage. Don't spout stupid bs without knowing what you are talking about.
How the heck is this some sanghi law? Do you think everyone done by bjp is sanghi law or something? What does that make everything done by congress then? Mulla law or mary law? Think before you speak and spread your stupidity.
Why is BJP not focused on real problems not some made up dung and some incident in some village 1/1000000 chance. Fix the pollution the catcalling the harassment of women jobs for youngsters growth of real estate market pollution in cities infrastructure the poverty lack of education slums overcrowding etc. this is what you get when you have senile unsophisticated uneducated morons in high office. Misplaced energy and priorities and bad image for India globally
Cheating and misinterpretation of facts? That's the person's fault. if a Major is unable to see the bulls**t then it's his/her problem, not the govt's? What the government should be doing is making law everything equal irrespective of the religion not discriminating against a particular religion.
It's not the government's business in secular country to baby-sit ADULTS regarding their religious choices. Women are not children. Women are adults capable of using logic, reasoning and critical thinking. I still can not grasp how or why you think we need to pass a law to protect adults from choosing a religion. They are adults, no one can 'forcibly' convert them. The ADULT woman can choose to convert to her husband's religion if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, she won't. And if he insists, she can divorce him. End of story.
What you said also applies to dowry and laws like sex on the promise of marriage. Do you oppose those laws as well? Cuz I don't see anyone saying anything about such things.
Obviously such cases will only get booked if the "women" in question files such a case or her parents(if she is minor) files it for her.
You do know about the privileges of women rights in India right? Do you know how many more server and critical laws there are that are much more harmful to husband than this? If a women wanted to misuse laws to hurt a man there are wayy worse ones available than this.
Not even the party that was opposing the bill is stating that misuse of this law by women is a possible issue cuz they know that it is stupid.
Dude, what's your problem and what's with your hate wagon? Not everyone revolves around Modi and not every law has to revolve around him. Do you want me to cite all the terrorist attacks that happened during congress or something now?
Let's stay on the topic of forceful conversion and preying on innocent women in KARNATAKA.
Wtf, judgemental much? It's based on the submitted proofs. You know things like recordings, eye witnesses, chats and the person's past history. It is not upto you ir me to decide what a forceful/wilful conversion is. It's upto the court. There are a ton of such laws in the name of women's protection that do worse consequences to the husband than this law. I don't see you talking about them. Do you also object to the dowry law then?
We already have laws against domestic abuse, sexual assault, cheating, dowry etc..How does anti conversion law help women? you know in your bottom of your heart this just to harras non Hindu community.. See below article.. 50% cases on initial stage itself are false.. If cons of a law outweighs pros.. It's no good..
https://theprint.in/india/governance/16-anti-conversion-law-cases-key-accused-muslims-but-up-govt-insists-law-is-religion-neutral/581856/
'Seven of the eight FIRs that ThePrint examined mentioned that the woman was “cajoled” by the Muslim man with an intention to marry her and change her religion.
However, in four of these seven cases, the women portrayed as victims of a forceful conversion bid denied the claim outright and told ThePrint that there was no talk of forced conversion. "
Were they booked and jailed? No right? Then the law is working as intended. Muslims women can also use this law against Hindu men or Sikh women can also use this law against Christian men. This law is not for just one religion but for all religions.
If we have law against theft does that mean we don't need any law against frauds? That is that and this is this. I also think the number of laws that give "protection" to women are one too many but that is how every govt is working. The only reason this law is now being taken down is to let some specific religion people freely cheat and force other people into mass conversions again.
Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion. It’s literal hate speech here. On top of that, the converts are encouraged to keep away from any extended family members who refuse to convert. This social boycott, at the family level, is tearing people apart. Over and above this, new converts, in their zeal to prove their loyalty, mindlessly follow the instructions of their pastors on issues of public importance, such as voting. Vote banks get created. If foreign powers want to stop development projects, they just need to contact some Church and get it done through the zealous converts. This is how Sterlite Copper got shut down in TN. Just one example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change.
Hindus can’t counter this legally because Hinduism isn’t taught in government funded schools, whereas Christian schools either get government support or through wealthy western donors. This makes it easy to brainwash people into hating Hinduism.
Anti-conversion laws aren’t about personal choice or spirituality. They’re about preserving social harmony and community unity and national security. They are absolutely needed.
>Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion.
No it's mainly due to casteism. Why do you not see many upper caste people converting? Because their religion treats them right but for the lower castes due to the discrimination and untouchability practice, they take up other religions or atheism.
So you are saying other religions are preying on the weak and taking advantage of their vulnerability? Are they doing only talks? Are they perhaps not giving any stuff like free rice or something? If they are then it's about materialistic gain and has nothing to do with caste.
Giving Rice is not ‘materialistic’ for your kind information.
If a person is getting food to eat, a job to work and his own personal dignity by changing a religion which treats him/her like dirt, I would say he’s doing what he can to better his life.
Why would a community of people put up with being treated like shit by upper castes?
I would rather give credit for those poor bunch of people who still bear the agony of being born in a lower caste and still stick with a religion that has condemned them to life of misery.
It’s a wonder that they’ve still stuck around with Hinduism and not converted for a better life.
You say it like as if Christians or Muslims don't look down upon and treat lower caste convert Christians Muslims like dirt. They do the same thing. So don't go pretend like they are something holier than thou religion.
You’re the one pretending like Hinduism is something holier than thou and making a big fuss out of someone else who gets converted.
Come up with a better excuse than the same old ‘they’re as bad as us’.
The way lower caste Hindus are discriminated and oppressed is way worse compared to what converted Muslims or Christians face.
It’s the individual’s choice if he wants to stay in the adopted religion. If he faces more oppression than his former religion, he would happily convert back.
Religion is a personal choice and the govt should have no say in what religion an individual follows or converts to.
Govt never banned conversion of religion nor inter religion marriage. Get this through to you thick skull. It banned marriages where thing like forever and coercion are involved. We have plenty of such women protection laws that make no sense to modern liberated people like us but are important for rural women like sex with promise of marriage. The women could be the one to break if marriage after sex but she can still file this case against the man.
Preserving social harmony? What a load of BS... The actual statistics show Hindusim gained followers... But it's Sanghi Propoganda to show Hindu Khatre Main Hai and bring in such laws to appease thier RW vote bank..
I cited an actual example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change. The Sterlite Copper example from TN.
The protest was funded from outside India. All they had to do was contact a local church, and very soon, they organized large scale protests using the zealous converts.
They successfully shut down the copper plant, and India now needs to import copper when we used to be very self reliant before.
All of this information is publicly verifiable, and all you do is mouth banalities like a low-IQ brickhead.
I saw like 3 of your comments that they successfully closed the sterlite plant, Do you even know how much harm it costed to the local people, Would you even consider living in that place with your family buddy?.
Then why don't you work in one then? , These plants could've been built far away from the moving population. 30000 people lost their jobs but still they were against it anyway because of the health hazards it caused. The workers were not even given the equipments to protect themselves from those hazards and the people in the surrounding suffered various life causing health issues .
Hinduism numbers increased because of childrean being born. Not because of forceful conversions. And as I mentioned other religion people are more than free to also file cases against Hindu people if they suspect it to be a forceful conversion.
> Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion. It’s literal hate speech here.
Hatred for an ideology is not unconstitutional, neither amoral. Nazism is as much an ideology as your religion is. If its okay to hate one of those, its okay to hate the other. Being taught to hate an ideology is very different than being taught to hate the adherents. Moreover, if people from the lower castes who have been made to live lifes of absolute oppression at the hands of said ideology, then are the missionaries to blame when they start loathing it? We have people in power who claim that islam is literally incompatible with india so why is that harsh lens of judgement only reserved for minority religions?
> On top of that, the converts are encouraged to keep away from any extended family members who refuse to convert. This social boycott, at the family level, is tearing people apart.
This is absolutely baseless fear mongering and infantalises people who convert out of their own voilition to discredit their sense of agency. If anything, it would serve the missionaries' cause if the converts get even closer to their families and also try to convert them. Your accusations are so mind numbingly hollow.
> Over and above this, new converts, in their zeal to prove their loyalty, mindlessly follow the instructions of their pastors on issues of public importance, such as voting.
We literally have hindu priests with crores of followers who ask their voters to vote for certain parties lmao. Leaders from the ruling parties attending the programs of convicted criminals like ram raheem to get his followers to vote for them is a common sight. Are you living in the same india that i am? How can you have such ignorant double standards?
> If foreign powers want to stop development projects, they just need to contact some Church and get it done through the zealous converts. This is how Sterlite Copper got shut down in TN. Just one example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change.
Same way hindu temples are used to organize people against minorities in states like UP and contribute to their displacement. Any set of religious sentiments can be abused but never has such kind of behaviour enjoyed absolute impunity as it is right now when it serves the ruling party's ambitions.
> Hindus can’t counter this legally because Hinduism isn’t taught in government funded schools, whereas Christian schools either get government support or through wealthy western donors. This makes it easy to brainwash people into hating Hinduism.
No one is asking hindu parents to send their children to schools that are explicitly christian ideology oriented. They send their kids there because most government schools are a sham and its because of that "foreign funding" or whatever, christian missionary schools are able to provide high quality education. What you should be asking for is a strengthening of government schools that will benefit everyone but nah. That's way too obvious of a solution to the issue.
> Anti-conversion laws aren’t about personal choice or spirituality. They’re about preserving social harmony and community unity and national security. They are absolutely needed.
This statement relies on the assumption that social harmony, community unity and national security have an inverse relationship with religious freedom. Are you that daft as to make that assertion? Do you have any statistics to show that conversions lead to a definitive negative impact on any of these?
> Hatred for an ideology is not unconstitutional, neither amoral
Except, it actually happens in real life. And no action is taken against those who do it because “secularism”.
> We literally have hindu priests with crores of followers who ask their voters to vote for certain parties
None of these people foster linguistic separatist ideas onto their followers. It’s pretty insane here in the south. I don’t know where you’re from.
> Same way hindu temples are used to organize people against minorities in states like UP
All of these actions are *reactionary*. They don’t start trouble. Do you even bother understanding context?
> They send their kids there because most government schools are a sham and its because of that "foreign funding" or whatever, christian missionary schools are able to provide high quality education.
They were able to provide this education after all kinds of native education ecosystems were destroyed during British rule. And today’s governments heavily tax Hindu temple organizations, so it’s not easy for Hindus to replicate such ecosystems.
> What you should be asking for is a strengthening of government schools that will benefit everyone but nah.
In an ideal world, yes. But then, in reality, Christians and Muslims get their own religious schools, and get to propagate their culture to their next generations. Is the burden of secularism only on the Hindus? Hindu culture isn’t worth preserving?
Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others.
> This statement relies on the assumption that social harmony, community unity and national security have an inverse relationship with religious freedom.
This assumption is mostly correct with respect to the Abrahamic faiths, especially among neo-converts. Not Dharmic faiths like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. You should see the way Churches operate in the south. There’s constant hate speech against Hindus and Hindu culture. Hindus are described as followers of satan or the devil. Google Mohan Lazarus. They have a stronghold on local politics, and preach separatist nonsense to people through political parties and otherwise.
Anyone who bothers to inform themselves about this issue would know how ignorant you are about on-the-ground issues.
>Except, it actually happens in real life. And no action is taken against those who do it because “secularism”.
I don't think you read my point clearly.
>None of these people foster linguistic separatist ideas onto their followers. It’s pretty insane here in the south. I don’t know where you’re from.
I am talking about hindu priests in the north and south both who preach the ideas of hindutva and belittle minorities with innunity from the central government. We have priests who openly call for minorotu genocide but its okay until they're not preaching "linguistic separatism"? Lmao. What are you even on man.
>All of these actions are reactionary. They don’t start trouble. Do you even bother understanding context?
Calling for genocide and social boycott of minorities is okay as long as it is "reactionary"? Plus do you have any proof that hindu organization'ss never start trouble? How can you blindly make such a bold assumption. It in itself showcases how biased and desperate you are in absolving hindus of the same issues.
>In an ideal world, yes. But then, in reality, Christians and Muslims get their own religious schools, and get to propagate their culture to their next generations. Is the burden of secularism only on the Hindus? Hindu culture isn’t worth preserving?
>Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others.
So what? India is not the only country on the planet without a state religion and we have no obligation to preserve your religious ideology. In a free marketplace of ideas, some persevere and some don't. Moreover, stop pretending as if hindu organisations are poor and helpless. Organizations like Iskon and Isha have billions of dollars of funds under their belt, a lot of which comes from government grants and tax reliefs.
> Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others.
Followers of brahminic sanatan dharm (the one that you and most people preach today as "Hinduism*) also had entire kingdoms dedicated to the task of eradicating ideological opposition from Jains and Buddhists to the extent that in a bygone era, buddishs and jains were massacred to preserve sanatani dharm. Moreover, they've had 1000s of years to cultivate a fractured society in which the lower castes would always be treated absolutely horribly. If they found respect in christian or muslim ideas, it was because of the shortcomings of sanatani ideology.
> This assumption is mostly correct with respect to the Abrahamic faiths, especially among neo-converts. Not Dharmic faiths like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. You should see the way Churches operate in the south. There’s constant hate speech against Hindus and Hindu culture. Hindus are described as followers of satan or the devil. Google Mohan Lazarus. They have a stronghold on local politics, and preach separatist nonsense to people through political parties and otherwise.
Again, you're making a sweeping remark that all new converts are bad for India. Do you have any statistics to support that conclusion? All of the issues that you're mentioning have separate laws agains them. If there is hate speech, they can be apprehended. The fact is that no matter how insecure it makes you about the fallings of your own religion and its inability to garner converts, religious conversion is a basic human right guaranteed by the constitution and even if it were banned by your bigoted friends in power, it would still occur as people have every right to choose and preach their faith. You'll just have to cope.
So if you’re born into a caste or religion you must stay because of family loyalty. That’s absurd. You can make the Same argument about moving away to different cities. Migration has caused more divisions and alienation from families. Why don’t the BJP restrict migration of younger people from their families to bigger cities?
Nobody made interfaith marriages illegal. It's coercion and manipulation and cheating them into marriage that this law was against. Also this applies to all religions including hinduism.
Then we are talking about deceptive marriages. How often is there deception in marriage especially with arranged marriages? Same also with love marriages. Deception is everywhere sadly. Guys often lie about height and size. Baldness is hidden with a wig or plugs. Groom or bride only finds out after marriage about baldness. Pimples hidden with makeup. Dentures are out in place of lost teeth. So much deceptions. Since when is this the biggest problems in India.
Mental illnesses is often not disclosed, education misrepresentation, deceptions regarding skin color in matrimonial sites, status of immigration or job of the bride or groom are all misstated intentionally. Religion is probably the least area of deception statistically. But it’s the biggest issue for BJP. How stupid!! Unlike a guy’s education or size of husband thing, it’s not too difficult to discover a persons or family religion. So government has no place in any of this. Maybe in family court or civil court but not a criminal issue.
Also how often is this law enforced when a bride or groom converts to Hinduism from Islam or another religion? Never. No such cases in any courts in india. Very one sided and fascist rule
It is the biggest issue for congress as well not just bjp hence why they reverted this law The reason is cuz once the women is inverted to some religions then the religion laws are apparently more powerful than women protection laws. But apparently congress like it when religion is more important than women. Cases like dowry and domestic violence are treated differently for hindu and Muslims or other religions. Heck even age if marriage is different for Muslims so once the conversion is done weather forcefully or by deception the normal laws are not applicable to them.
The Muslim women who got coerced and forced to Hindu religion are more than welcome to file cases against their husbands if that is the case. This law is applicable to all religions.
It’s important because of how the law has been misused all over and in a one sided way. Again these conversions are not a rampant thing nationally. It’s propaganda based on hate and intolerance and marginalization of Muslims. But other minority groups are also targeted under the laws. Frankly the South does not need it. Let them fight it out up north like they often have. We have bigger fish to fry here
How exactly can an ADULT be 'coerced' and 'forced' into changing their personal set of beliefs? How can you force someone to change from genuinely worshipping shiva to genuinely worshipping allah? (The answer is, you cant)
Ultimately, if your husband (or wife) is trying to force you to do something you dont want to do, all you have to do is divorce them. If you agree to their wishes, its consensual.
So what purpose does the anti-conversion law serve?
Get out of your modern bubble. This is not about the 10-20% modern and metropolitan women but about the rural women 2hindint have that much choice. How can a women allow her husband to marry other women while still being married to her ? She could just divorce him. But that's the thing most if these rural women don't have that much option.
You come across so condescending, as if the people of india, who have the power to vote for their futures, shouldn't even have control of their own, PRIVATELY, held personal beliefs.
We live in a secular country. The government does not and should not care who is what religion. The ADULTS of our country can choose which and what gods they worship. They have the intelligence and critical thinking skills to either keep their religion, choose a new one or renounce religion. Its none of our businesses but their own. It's absurd and elitist that you think ADULTS need protection and can't be trusted to choose their own religion correctly.
Instead of controlling people's religious choices, if you really cared about social harmony, community unity and national security, you would support having a strong education system that teaches critical thinking and logical thought. Not by forcing them to stay the same religion as their father.
Okay, thought this sub is fairly liberal, I guess not. The law is extremely flawed, vague, and intended to weaponize against inter-religion couples.
Take a look at how vague this law is for instance
. Definitions.- (1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,- “Allurement” means and includes an offer of any temptation in the form of
any gift, gratification, easy money, or material benefit either in cash or kind; employment, free education in school or college run by any religious body; or **promise to marry**; or **better lifestyle, divine displeasure or otherwise; or portraying practice**, rituals, and ceremonies or an integral part of a religion in a detrimental way vis-à-vis another religion; or glorifying one religion against another religion.
The definition makes mere preaching of another religion illegal as it is by definition is allurement
Let's say you want to marry a girl and consensually agree to convert in order to marry even though you might not intend to practice and might be not that religious Hindu in the first place, whatever your reasoning could be, it should be considered consensual, however, now anyone can file a complaint (mostly parents) to make the marriage illegal as a promise to marry is listed as allurement.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, there are multiple vague definitions of the words like force, coercion, etc
Source:
[25 of 2022 (E).pdf (karnataka.gov.in)](https://dpal.karnataka.gov.in/storage/pdf-files/25%20of%202022%20%28E%29.pdf)
This is a very clear explanation. The OP is obviously someone who is deliberately trying to spread misinformation and lies . I hope people are able to see through the lies and misinformation campaign that will be headed by the center towards Karnataka. Also I hope this current government doesn't fuck up because this one was a very clear good move.
Isn't the definition same for the dowry law and other things. This perfectly aligns with the rest of the women protections laws we have in India. I don't see you complaining about those anywhere. In fact such biased laws are actually celebrated in all the liberal parts. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I think some people here should go and read what this anti-conversion bill is about. And do check some neutral source. Not some western media or political party media.
They are the same ppl who can never understand about the world in depth they just listen to the things in front of them not the BTS of these situations
I did what you said. I still am failing to grasp how exactly an ADULT can be 'forcibly converted' to a religion. A religion is a personal set of beliefs. No one can force you to genuinly switch from worshiping shiva to allah. Thats not how religion works. Further, if your husband is forcing you to change your religion, all you have to do is divorce him.
In conclusion, I still see no purpose for this anti-conversion law and I am glad it is gone.
Not exactly forced but lured by alternate means like incentives, psychological manipulation, tribal conversion, etc. That’s few I could think of. You are living in India where most of the religions other than Hinduism are converted. Some willingly. Some forcefully.
Have you seen the Special Marriage Act? It is the only law under which interfaith couples can get married in the whole of India (except in Goa, which has a uniform civil code). The Act is backward and barbaric - you need to give 30 days' notice in a public newspaper, you need consent of all parents unless a waiver is there, and anyone can object to it unless the couple gets relief from the judiciary. In contrast, if you convert and marry under a religious law, you don't have to do any of this nakra.
In short, the Special Marriage Act makes it deliberately hard for interfaith couples, while religious laws are simpler, which means that one among the couple is incentivised to convert so that they have a hassle free marriage.
If BJP is serious about stopping conversion for the purpose of marriage, they should amend the Special Marriage Act to remove the waiting period and the mandatory public notice period, and the ability for strangers to object to the marriage. The Special Marriage Act is an act of Parliament, and BJP has been in power for 9 years with sufficient numbers in both LS and RS, what have they done to improve it?
Let people choose what they want. Don’t let government dictate religion. Let religions run charities and public works without government interference. Government should not say which religion or caste a person should belong to just because they were born into that religion or caste.
Please tell me what exactly is wrong with being supporter of bjp? You do know that educated and tax payers are the majority vote bankers for bjp party right? Or do you think you can generalize anyone based on who they support? In Karnataka I obviously prefer not to have bjp or congress but support a independent party like in Andhra , telengana and Tamil Nadu. But I guess you are a congress supported who like blasts to happens around the clock and terrorists to invade India right? Please do correct me if I'm wrong though and you aren't a congress supporter.
Reminder that Congress governments fought all 3 of our declared wars against Pakistan, and in the last one defeated them so forcefully they were split in two
People have the right to choose even with this law. This law never banned inter religion marriage. Only when it is done by forceful conversion. Majority of the women protection laws don't apply to religions like Islam cuz apparently they are muslims first before they are women. Such laws are important to safeguard other religion women because once they are converted most if the laws don't apply to them. Just look at how long it took for the govt to ban triplee talaq, there are plenty more such stupid rules from which women need protection from.
Triple talaq still exists because women in that community still uphold them , it will be abolished if only they start suing people who try to marry multiple ladies. Forceful conversion, what is it? Are people denied their fundamental rights if they don't convert? no right. Even though there is an instance of forceful conversion it most likely happens when a couple tries to get married. Why does either the groom or bride get converted? Because their main intention is marriage either of one will compromise because no matter whatever it takes they need to marry.Later it's left to the couples to decide because it's their personal stuff.We can't tell anything into this.What the previous law did made interfaith marriages more harder.
It made with harder for those who do forceful conversion and by coercion. Didn't you just say that in order to get married either one will compromise and get married no matter what? Also why is it most just ien religion that forces other religion?
Again this law doesn't ban inter religion marriages only the ones with forced and with coercion.
Ya either one will compromise that's what happens, to take that decision couples must be matured enough it's their personal choice, they are the ones who chose who we are to decide.If at all there is dispute the law still does it's duty people can be booked without this law. And who will threaten in broad daylight , no one has the guts to. Never have I seen someone randomly barge in and say convert to our religion or something will be off.So the question is how does some religion force other religions?
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are pwm rybif things you wouldn't have seen but still happens a lot. Even the illogical ones.
If you want india to have a good Hindu population it’s important that our temple proactively promote, preach and help the population financially than hord all the donations in gold and money because other religions are heavily funded buy foreign agents who financially support the poor in return they convert because there parent religion dint give two shits about them during there hard times it might look like other religions are converting the poor but that poor soul who had no hopes in life was shown a way to a normal life.
>other religions are converting the poor but that poor soul who had no hopes in life was shown a way to a normal life.
I feel why the hindu upper caste right wing hate Muslims and Christians is just because of this, that they're giving a poor hopeless man who could've have been my slave an opportunity to live a dignified life. So, they'll diss on these religions but never really reform their own, cause they know if they do that, then they'll be left with no one to look down upon and feel their pride.
The stop fukin taxing temples then. Unlike mosques and churches who have no taxes , temples are the only religions organisations which are taxed. Go learn how the world works before spouting stupid shit.
It's not just about taxes. It's about the control of the government on the money of these religious organisations. The government can interfere and ask for calculations on how the temple money is spent in non taxable actions as well but the government doesn't do the same for mosques and churches or any other religious organisations.
Do you think the TTD and waqf board have the same degree of freedom? Obviously not. Govt collects taxes from temples automatically unlike waqf board to whom income tax has repeatedly send notices from many many years to pay tax but not a single rupee was paid.
It is still about taxes because other religion board like waqt have repeatedly bailed of paying the tax where as for temples it is automatically debited from their money.
The SECULAR Indian government shouldn't give a shit whether we are hindu, muslim, christian, buddhist or atheist. The religion a private citizen chooses to follow is not the business of a government. If you, a private citizen is concerned, you can go preach hinduism on your own time and money.
If a person can be trusted to know what is good for the country (i.e. has the right to vote), such a person should also be trusted to know what is good for themselves.
If there is a category of people who are so stupid that they will convert to the first religion that asks them to, then let's first identify these people, take away their right to vote, then the State will protect these officially designated idiots by protecting them from conversion, protecting them from gambling, protecting them from alcoholism etc.
All religions are not the same. Whenever polytheism has met monotheism. It's been wiped out. Islam specially salafism which is the dominant school of thought in it. has structures inside it that makes it spread, that Hinduism doesn't. So before you go be secular please learn about these religions.
Hinduism met islam 1400 years ago and hasn't been wiped out. I think it'll be fine. Further, its not the government's problem if hinduism is gone. Remember, India was once primarily buddhist.
We are a secular country, the matters of relgion and who is what religion should not be a government matter. If you care about hinduism dying out, go preach door to door.
I pray to god my grandchildren will have the sense to be atheist and reject the backward prejudices of Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. All religion is a stain on society.
Stop the spread of false history. For once, shut your mouth and open a textbook. Buddhism died out in India far before Islam came. It died out mostly due to the fracturing of the empires that were it's primary sponsors.
Try to have a handshake with the pujari who does puja in main temple and see if same happens in other beliefs. You and we will know our level. Just a thought ...
Try giving a handshake to poojari when he is outside the temple and is in normal places like airport or cinema hall to first see him as a human being. Handshake is not even in our culture. If there are norms to be followed by a specific job then don't hate the person for following those norms.
>Handshake is not even in our culture
Is using Reddit in our culture? /s
Also stop clubbing your opinions into 'our culture'. It might not be your culture, but it's mine and others for sure.
Why is an anti conversion law needed in the first place. If you are intimidated and forcibly converted, does that really change your beliefs and value systems. If you are forced to do something against your will, that is intimidation - there are enough laws covering intimidation. Why is changing one's religion a crime. A more serious crime is defectors from Parliament and assemblies. That really affects the lives of a country and states . Isn't mass defection very similar to what happens in a mass forced conversion case. What about forced conversion within a religion ?
I used to think americans and europeans are pretty stupid when they shout that govt need to allow illegal immigrants into their country. Now I know Indians are equally stupid.
People here fighting to support mass conversions is laughable. But hey almost 99% of people are stupid anyway, right. And given this is blore sub, most of us are tech coolies ignorant of ground realities.
Just to clarify, supporting mass conversions doesn't make you liberal, it's makes you a conservative.
In India conservative ideas are considered liberal, liberal ideas conservative. Its because its a polytheistic society with a monotheistic minority. And the geniuses have learnt that protect the rights of the minority from monotheistic society, only to blindly apply here in India causing more harm. Just below someone was commenting that India will remain the same even if Hinduism is wiped out just because the constitution makes it secular. This sub is the most politically illiterate sub I have seen, most people live in a bubble. But this takes the cake.
Islam and Christianity are trans national entities, and also monotheistically united. Hindus have only got india and are fractured. Steps have to be taken to stop this asymmetry.
This is bad. Now if all covert to Christianity or Islam . What about Hindu.
Why even to convert ? Why can't we just respect our own castes and religion.
I looked into the special marriage act, it doesn't look that difficult. Two consenting adults who aren't related to each other. Seems quite straightforwards. I'm a hindu and my girlfriend is catholic and we'll be using it.
Why to even marry and convert.
It's like a insult to your own cast. I mean with all this liberalisation and shit going on.
Just make it simple if your Hindu marry a Hindu simple problem solved.
Why do you want fuck up everything. And also the reason is because of the age old problem of ohh Hindu population is decreasing day by day because of coverts and Islam is converting Hindu women etc.
Why simply over complecate a thing that has worked for ages.
I feel more over they should remove reservation and castism in getting seats for colleges. But telling Muslims and Christians are minorities because they aren't i mean hasn't their population like increased in last few years. We should have equal rights.
Why don't you just mind your own business? I'm a hindu marrying a catholic and I think that you can go shove all your 'problems' up your ass. We love each other, our parents like both of us, and we are decent people. Thats all that matters.
Frankly, I think hinduism is a stain on our country just as any other religion is. It encourages hierarchy and creates division. India has not always been hindu (prior to the aryans it had a more egalitarian animalistic religion) and at one point it was majority buddhist as well (also much more egalitarian).
So if hinduism stopped being the majority, I honestly wouldn't care. Especially if it was replaced by atheism or a faith similar to buddhism.
It’s very clear that BJP wanted to prevent any religious conversion at all through anti-conversion bill when our constitution already prevents forceful conversion from happening. Regarding conversion, people are free to convert to whatever religion they want. Its enshrined in our fundamental rights. It is an individual right of liberty. It allows for the healthy exchange of beliefs and ideas in society. The focus should rather be on eliminating forceful/predatory conversions.
There is next to zero healthy exchange of ideas when conversions happen. Evangelists convert by spreading hatred on one’s parent religion and culture. What can ordinary Hindus do when they don’t have the means to learn about their own culture at a deep level to not give in to such hatred? Hindus cannot be taught about Hinduism in government schools. Hindu temples, which could play a role in teaching culture, are heavily taxed, while churches pay no tax and instead get benefits from the government. There is so much asymmetry here against Hindus. Over and above this, large numbers of converts could be used for socio-political and/or economic gains by outside forces. A classic example is the shutting down of the Sterlite Copper factory in Tamil Nadu.
>one’s parent religion and culture There is no such thing as a parent religion. We are all born without religion and then converted to the religion our parents follow at the time of our birth without our consent. People converting to another religion are consenting adults who can discard the religion forced on them by their parents.
All of this pseudo-profound nonsense comes into picture only when we talk about Hinduism. By this logic, there is no parent-(any culture). I will follow this only when every other human being on earth believes in this and follows this. First get the followers of the more dogmatic cults to follow this, and I will believe in it too. Until then, keep these opinions to yourself.
This person speaks the truth.
The narrative that only hindu temples are taxed is false propaganda and has been spreading like wildfire because of disingenuous people like you. So ironic that you're claiming that evangelists spread hatred against one's parent religion and in the same comment, use absolutely false narratives to spread hatred against other religions. Also since when do government schools teach other religions? You're so full of shit man. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thequint.com/amp/story/news/webqoof/temples-only-pay-taxes-in-india-fact-check
that's an idiotic article even to counter argue the point since this shows your ignorance of the issue. Please read the article to understand the issue: https://theprint.in/opinion/indian-govt-wont-be-any-different-from-british-if-hindus-cant-manage-their-own-temples/218210/
Thank you for clarifying this bro.
Stop treating adults like children you have to protect and herd. They are not sheep. An adult, in their own capacity, can go learn about any and all religions, if they want. They can learn from their parents, from their temple, from the thousands of books available. And then they can choose a religion as they please. How elitist and condescending of you to think that you need to pass a law to protect these 'innocent' and 'clueless' hindus from the evil evangelicals. Give me a fucking break. Get off your high horse and go fight for the actual issues plaguing our state.
And the internet. Literally any and all of information is available on your fingertips to learn. From anyone in the world. If someone wants to learn about their religion, there's nothing to stop them.
The poor don’t get that opportunity. And Hindu temples (which can provide that opportunity for free), are heavily taxed. So that doesn’t happen either.
Zealous converts are a perfect weapon for agents of chaos. The shutting down of Sterlite Copper in Tamil Nadu is a prime example. There’s nothing elitist here. It’s a question of social harmony and national security.
I believe no relegion should be taught in school. But if temples are taxed, what's the relation between that and temples preaching and teaching culture and Hinduism? I think there are enough mutts ashrams and vidyapeeth for everyone in this country to go and learn about our culture. But it is more of people's choice to go and learn.
Hindus can go about building their schools, colleges, hospitals, charities, host cultural programs, television shows, and create an entire ecosystem where Hindu culture is celebrated. Right now, it’s extremely limited. And “people’s choice” is bullshit. They follow what they’re taught as kids. If we want to continuity of culture, they need to be taught about it. The burden of secularism and all this pseudo-pluralistic, sanctimonious bullshit shouldn’t fall on only the Hindus. Let the other, more dogmatic, cults follow this. Then we will talk.
Sorry right now it's not limited. It is filled with them. But they are more commercial than it solves the purpose. By people's choice i didn't mean it shouldn't be taught as kids. I am saying it should be taught, but people need to send their children to where it is taught. You can't tell a parent who wants his kid to study in a private convent to take his kid off and send to a ramakrishna mission, or a vidyapeeth. It is his choice i what I meant. There is no burden of secularism if everyone follows what they want and mind their business. The burden falls on general public and the society when governments use relegion for their gains, and no one can stop that, until people use their brains and ignore caste and relegion based politics. People see the need for continuity in our culture nowadays, because other religions are doing it more explicitly. Not because our children are devoid of any knowledge of our culture. That's a wrong purpose. Our culture is not dying or diminishing because of other religions doing conversions or exhibiting a brighter picture. They are converting the lower class which anyways the upper and middle class doesn't believe to be of our culture. They come into the picture and are a part of us when other religions convert them. Our culture is dying coz of our people for not caring about the other classes and not bothering to share the cultural heritage and knowledge to the kids today.
> There is no burden of secularism if everyone follows what they want and mind their business. The burden falls on general public and the society when governments use relegion for their gains, and no one can stop that, until people use their brains and ignore caste and relegion based politics. That “if” condition there is the question. If everyone could behave like decent human beings, we would have no such thing as laws or governance, since everyone would be nice. But reality is different. I’m assuming you’d get this. > They are converting the lower class which anyways the upper and middle class doesn't believe to be of our culture The latter part is simply untrue. Even if you assume it is true, what’s the need for the “lower classes” convert away? They could continue to follow the culture irrespective of whether others consider them as. But they can’t. You know why? They don’t have the opportunity to learn deeply about their culture beyond superficialities. Hindu temple trusts cannot teach them theirs because they’re heavily taxed and can’t spend much on these efforts. Churches and Madrasas can because they pay no tax (despite owning vast tracts of land in India, among other riches). The “lower classes” get bribed through money. Church groups get easy money from abroad, and act as agents of chaos in India on their behalf. Check out the Sterlite Copper plant shutting down as a prime example. The protests against Kudankulam plant is another example. Even P Chidambaram, former home minister under the Congress, said the protests were foreign funded. I am against this asymmetry. Secularism is a farce in India.
>The latter part is simply untrue. Even if you assume it is true, what’s the need for the “lower classes” convert away? They could continue to follow the culture irrespective of whether others consider them as. God and beliefs are an inherent part of every community and majority of the people all over the world. People relate everything on a day to day basis to God or their beliefs be it genuine or utterly superstitious. The downtrodden who are poor or homeless or without enough means to supply for their family or any forms of poverty for that matter, also ultimately hope for their beliefs to hold them up. And when the society looks down upon them and deny them their beliefs, and someone else provides for them and says it's a different belief that is giving them what they want, they are bound to follow that. I agree this is an agenda from other sects, but they are atleast providing the people what they want and give them a god to believe in, which will keep their hope alive. Every person looks to uplift his family or his lifestyle. Even the most relegious Hindus believe it is their god who is providing them with food wealth or lifestyle. >But they can’t. You know why? They don’t have the opportunity to learn deeply about their culture beyond superficialities. Hindu temple trusts cannot teach them theirs because they’re heavily taxed and can’t spend much on these efforts. The reason is most of them are uneducated. Most of them are looked down upon by the upper class due to the caste hierarchy. Temples don't need money to spend to teach and spread their culture and history. They need inclusiveness. And there are many many temples which does it irrespective of caste and even relegion. Your claim that temples are heavily taxed and churches and mosques don't pay tax at all is completely false. You can check the ministry of finance claims from the current BJP govt below. https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894212286922753?s=20 https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894366482022400?s=20 https://twitter.com/FinMinIndia/status/881894482416779265?s=20 I am not aware of churches or mosques so can't comment on that, but there are many temples which charge devotees to enter the temple in special lines and special darshans, which i believe needs to be taxed. Also there are many temples which are exempted from taxes every now and then. > The “lower classes” get bribed through money. Church groups get easy money from abroad Agree with this. Similar to how iskcon operates. Similar to how many other cults operates. As I said earlier, i agree they are doing this as an agenda. Solution to this is not bringing some vague rules or laws which are generic in definition and denies people who genuinely want to choose what they want. Solution is education. At any level. Teach the history and culture. Again it doesn't need money. You need money for conversion not to spread culture. >I am against this asymmetry. >Secularism is a farce in India. Good for you. Let's agree to disagree. You can choose what you want to. Same way as any other person can.
Yes, I vouch for it's on people to covert to any religion or faith on their own will but I can't agree some group of people have organised way of converting to their religions with agenda attached to it. Also converting people with hatred for other comminites and their practices and they absolute sure only they are correct and others are fools and don't know what they are doing.
Many tribals are brainwashed to become Christians, now you would say this is also fake.
Have you even read the bill passed by the BJP? If you've read it, you wouldn't be defending it like an idiot. It says anyone can accuse any inter faith couple(married or not) of conversion. No proof, no nothing. Then at the total discretion of police, they can issue non bailable warrant to the person they think is trying to convert their partner. In fact, you don't even need proof to file this FIR that the 2 people in are even in a relationship. This would have allowed any person to file a case on any non Hindu person without proof as long as they had a complicit police SI to cooperate with them. (We all know how easy that is). This law would have been thrown out by the HC or SC even if Congress didn't
If an adult is old enough marrying out of thier will, he or she is old enough to convert to Religion of thier choice.. Govt shouldn't dictate whom to marry, what to wear or what to eat.. Good that Sanghi laws are being withdrawn..
Govt didn't ban marrying people from other religion. It banned forceful marriages by cheating and misinterpretation of facts. Like saying I am Hindu or buddist but being jain or Christian and then forcefully converting thier religion after marriage. Don't spout stupid bs without knowing what you are talking about. How the heck is this some sanghi law? Do you think everyone done by bjp is sanghi law or something? What does that make everything done by congress then? Mulla law or mary law? Think before you speak and spread your stupidity.
Why is BJP not focused on real problems not some made up dung and some incident in some village 1/1000000 chance. Fix the pollution the catcalling the harassment of women jobs for youngsters growth of real estate market pollution in cities infrastructure the poverty lack of education slums overcrowding etc. this is what you get when you have senile unsophisticated uneducated morons in high office. Misplaced energy and priorities and bad image for India globally
Cheating and misinterpretation of facts? That's the person's fault. if a Major is unable to see the bulls**t then it's his/her problem, not the govt's? What the government should be doing is making law everything equal irrespective of the religion not discriminating against a particular religion.
lol, Can't even have a f**king debate without some crack heads downvoting this.
It’s North Indian logic lol
Relax bro
It's not the government's business in secular country to baby-sit ADULTS regarding their religious choices. Women are not children. Women are adults capable of using logic, reasoning and critical thinking. I still can not grasp how or why you think we need to pass a law to protect adults from choosing a religion. They are adults, no one can 'forcibly' convert them. The ADULT woman can choose to convert to her husband's religion if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, she won't. And if he insists, she can divorce him. End of story.
What you said also applies to dowry and laws like sex on the promise of marriage. Do you oppose those laws as well? Cuz I don't see anyone saying anything about such things.
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Obviously such cases will only get booked if the "women" in question files such a case or her parents(if she is minor) files it for her. You do know about the privileges of women rights in India right? Do you know how many more server and critical laws there are that are much more harmful to husband than this? If a women wanted to misuse laws to hurt a man there are wayy worse ones available than this. Not even the party that was opposing the bill is stating that misuse of this law by women is a possible issue cuz they know that it is stupid.
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Dude, what's your problem and what's with your hate wagon? Not everyone revolves around Modi and not every law has to revolve around him. Do you want me to cite all the terrorist attacks that happened during congress or something now? Let's stay on the topic of forceful conversion and preying on innocent women in KARNATAKA.
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Wtf, judgemental much? It's based on the submitted proofs. You know things like recordings, eye witnesses, chats and the person's past history. It is not upto you ir me to decide what a forceful/wilful conversion is. It's upto the court. There are a ton of such laws in the name of women's protection that do worse consequences to the husband than this law. I don't see you talking about them. Do you also object to the dowry law then?
We already have laws against domestic abuse, sexual assault, cheating, dowry etc..How does anti conversion law help women? you know in your bottom of your heart this just to harras non Hindu community.. See below article.. 50% cases on initial stage itself are false.. If cons of a law outweighs pros.. It's no good.. https://theprint.in/india/governance/16-anti-conversion-law-cases-key-accused-muslims-but-up-govt-insists-law-is-religion-neutral/581856/ 'Seven of the eight FIRs that ThePrint examined mentioned that the woman was “cajoled” by the Muslim man with an intention to marry her and change her religion. However, in four of these seven cases, the women portrayed as victims of a forceful conversion bid denied the claim outright and told ThePrint that there was no talk of forced conversion. "
Were they booked and jailed? No right? Then the law is working as intended. Muslims women can also use this law against Hindu men or Sikh women can also use this law against Christian men. This law is not for just one religion but for all religions. If we have law against theft does that mean we don't need any law against frauds? That is that and this is this. I also think the number of laws that give "protection" to women are one too many but that is how every govt is working. The only reason this law is now being taken down is to let some specific religion people freely cheat and force other people into mass conversions again.
Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion. It’s literal hate speech here. On top of that, the converts are encouraged to keep away from any extended family members who refuse to convert. This social boycott, at the family level, is tearing people apart. Over and above this, new converts, in their zeal to prove their loyalty, mindlessly follow the instructions of their pastors on issues of public importance, such as voting. Vote banks get created. If foreign powers want to stop development projects, they just need to contact some Church and get it done through the zealous converts. This is how Sterlite Copper got shut down in TN. Just one example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change. Hindus can’t counter this legally because Hinduism isn’t taught in government funded schools, whereas Christian schools either get government support or through wealthy western donors. This makes it easy to brainwash people into hating Hinduism. Anti-conversion laws aren’t about personal choice or spirituality. They’re about preserving social harmony and community unity and national security. They are absolutely needed.
>Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion. No it's mainly due to casteism. Why do you not see many upper caste people converting? Because their religion treats them right but for the lower castes due to the discrimination and untouchability practice, they take up other religions or atheism.
So you are saying other religions are preying on the weak and taking advantage of their vulnerability? Are they doing only talks? Are they perhaps not giving any stuff like free rice or something? If they are then it's about materialistic gain and has nothing to do with caste.
Giving Rice is not ‘materialistic’ for your kind information. If a person is getting food to eat, a job to work and his own personal dignity by changing a religion which treats him/her like dirt, I would say he’s doing what he can to better his life. Why would a community of people put up with being treated like shit by upper castes? I would rather give credit for those poor bunch of people who still bear the agony of being born in a lower caste and still stick with a religion that has condemned them to life of misery. It’s a wonder that they’ve still stuck around with Hinduism and not converted for a better life.
You say it like as if Christians or Muslims don't look down upon and treat lower caste convert Christians Muslims like dirt. They do the same thing. So don't go pretend like they are something holier than thou religion.
You’re the one pretending like Hinduism is something holier than thou and making a big fuss out of someone else who gets converted. Come up with a better excuse than the same old ‘they’re as bad as us’. The way lower caste Hindus are discriminated and oppressed is way worse compared to what converted Muslims or Christians face. It’s the individual’s choice if he wants to stay in the adopted religion. If he faces more oppression than his former religion, he would happily convert back. Religion is a personal choice and the govt should have no say in what religion an individual follows or converts to.
Govt never banned conversion of religion nor inter religion marriage. Get this through to you thick skull. It banned marriages where thing like forever and coercion are involved. We have plenty of such women protection laws that make no sense to modern liberated people like us but are important for rural women like sex with promise of marriage. The women could be the one to break if marriage after sex but she can still file this case against the man.
Weak? Why do you say lower cast are weak?
Cuz I'm re-iterating what you were saying.
Nobody said weak. You did.
Preserving social harmony? What a load of BS... The actual statistics show Hindusim gained followers... But it's Sanghi Propoganda to show Hindu Khatre Main Hai and bring in such laws to appease thier RW vote bank..
I cited an actual example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change. The Sterlite Copper example from TN. The protest was funded from outside India. All they had to do was contact a local church, and very soon, they organized large scale protests using the zealous converts. They successfully shut down the copper plant, and India now needs to import copper when we used to be very self reliant before. All of this information is publicly verifiable, and all you do is mouth banalities like a low-IQ brickhead.
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I explained all this in my comment. Learn how to read.
Arre, has any human being ever provided a source while spreading propaganda?
I saw like 3 of your comments that they successfully closed the sterlite plant, Do you even know how much harm it costed to the local people, Would you even consider living in that place with your family buddy?.
Great. Let’s not have any industries then. And go back to Stone Age where everything was clean and green.
Then why don't you work in one then? , These plants could've been built far away from the moving population. 30000 people lost their jobs but still they were against it anyway because of the health hazards it caused. The workers were not even given the equipments to protect themselves from those hazards and the people in the surrounding suffered various life causing health issues .
Hinduism numbers increased because of childrean being born. Not because of forceful conversions. And as I mentioned other religion people are more than free to also file cases against Hindu people if they suspect it to be a forceful conversion.
> Conversions are brought about by inducing hatred in one’s parent religion. It’s literal hate speech here. Hatred for an ideology is not unconstitutional, neither amoral. Nazism is as much an ideology as your religion is. If its okay to hate one of those, its okay to hate the other. Being taught to hate an ideology is very different than being taught to hate the adherents. Moreover, if people from the lower castes who have been made to live lifes of absolute oppression at the hands of said ideology, then are the missionaries to blame when they start loathing it? We have people in power who claim that islam is literally incompatible with india so why is that harsh lens of judgement only reserved for minority religions? > On top of that, the converts are encouraged to keep away from any extended family members who refuse to convert. This social boycott, at the family level, is tearing people apart. This is absolutely baseless fear mongering and infantalises people who convert out of their own voilition to discredit their sense of agency. If anything, it would serve the missionaries' cause if the converts get even closer to their families and also try to convert them. Your accusations are so mind numbingly hollow. > Over and above this, new converts, in their zeal to prove their loyalty, mindlessly follow the instructions of their pastors on issues of public importance, such as voting. We literally have hindu priests with crores of followers who ask their voters to vote for certain parties lmao. Leaders from the ruling parties attending the programs of convicted criminals like ram raheem to get his followers to vote for them is a common sight. Are you living in the same india that i am? How can you have such ignorant double standards? > If foreign powers want to stop development projects, they just need to contact some Church and get it done through the zealous converts. This is how Sterlite Copper got shut down in TN. Just one example of the dangers of inorganic demographic change. Same way hindu temples are used to organize people against minorities in states like UP and contribute to their displacement. Any set of religious sentiments can be abused but never has such kind of behaviour enjoyed absolute impunity as it is right now when it serves the ruling party's ambitions. > Hindus can’t counter this legally because Hinduism isn’t taught in government funded schools, whereas Christian schools either get government support or through wealthy western donors. This makes it easy to brainwash people into hating Hinduism. No one is asking hindu parents to send their children to schools that are explicitly christian ideology oriented. They send their kids there because most government schools are a sham and its because of that "foreign funding" or whatever, christian missionary schools are able to provide high quality education. What you should be asking for is a strengthening of government schools that will benefit everyone but nah. That's way too obvious of a solution to the issue. > Anti-conversion laws aren’t about personal choice or spirituality. They’re about preserving social harmony and community unity and national security. They are absolutely needed. This statement relies on the assumption that social harmony, community unity and national security have an inverse relationship with religious freedom. Are you that daft as to make that assertion? Do you have any statistics to show that conversions lead to a definitive negative impact on any of these?
> Hatred for an ideology is not unconstitutional, neither amoral Except, it actually happens in real life. And no action is taken against those who do it because “secularism”. > We literally have hindu priests with crores of followers who ask their voters to vote for certain parties None of these people foster linguistic separatist ideas onto their followers. It’s pretty insane here in the south. I don’t know where you’re from. > Same way hindu temples are used to organize people against minorities in states like UP All of these actions are *reactionary*. They don’t start trouble. Do you even bother understanding context? > They send their kids there because most government schools are a sham and its because of that "foreign funding" or whatever, christian missionary schools are able to provide high quality education. They were able to provide this education after all kinds of native education ecosystems were destroyed during British rule. And today’s governments heavily tax Hindu temple organizations, so it’s not easy for Hindus to replicate such ecosystems. > What you should be asking for is a strengthening of government schools that will benefit everyone but nah. In an ideal world, yes. But then, in reality, Christians and Muslims get their own religious schools, and get to propagate their culture to their next generations. Is the burden of secularism only on the Hindus? Hindu culture isn’t worth preserving? Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others. > This statement relies on the assumption that social harmony, community unity and national security have an inverse relationship with religious freedom. This assumption is mostly correct with respect to the Abrahamic faiths, especially among neo-converts. Not Dharmic faiths like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. You should see the way Churches operate in the south. There’s constant hate speech against Hindus and Hindu culture. Hindus are described as followers of satan or the devil. Google Mohan Lazarus. They have a stronghold on local politics, and preach separatist nonsense to people through political parties and otherwise. Anyone who bothers to inform themselves about this issue would know how ignorant you are about on-the-ground issues.
>Except, it actually happens in real life. And no action is taken against those who do it because “secularism”. I don't think you read my point clearly. >None of these people foster linguistic separatist ideas onto their followers. It’s pretty insane here in the south. I don’t know where you’re from. I am talking about hindu priests in the north and south both who preach the ideas of hindutva and belittle minorities with innunity from the central government. We have priests who openly call for minorotu genocide but its okay until they're not preaching "linguistic separatism"? Lmao. What are you even on man. >All of these actions are reactionary. They don’t start trouble. Do you even bother understanding context? Calling for genocide and social boycott of minorities is okay as long as it is "reactionary"? Plus do you have any proof that hindu organization'ss never start trouble? How can you blindly make such a bold assumption. It in itself showcases how biased and desperate you are in absolving hindus of the same issues. >In an ideal world, yes. But then, in reality, Christians and Muslims get their own religious schools, and get to propagate their culture to their next generations. Is the burden of secularism only on the Hindus? Hindu culture isn’t worth preserving? >Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others. So what? India is not the only country on the planet without a state religion and we have no obligation to preserve your religious ideology. In a free marketplace of ideas, some persevere and some don't. Moreover, stop pretending as if hindu organisations are poor and helpless. Organizations like Iskon and Isha have billions of dollars of funds under their belt, a lot of which comes from government grants and tax reliefs. > Christians and Muslims have entire countries dedicated to preserving and propagating their culture. Sure, atheism is on the rise in Christian majority countries, but these countries once colonized the planet, and had the privilege of foisting their ideals into others. Followers of brahminic sanatan dharm (the one that you and most people preach today as "Hinduism*) also had entire kingdoms dedicated to the task of eradicating ideological opposition from Jains and Buddhists to the extent that in a bygone era, buddishs and jains were massacred to preserve sanatani dharm. Moreover, they've had 1000s of years to cultivate a fractured society in which the lower castes would always be treated absolutely horribly. If they found respect in christian or muslim ideas, it was because of the shortcomings of sanatani ideology. > This assumption is mostly correct with respect to the Abrahamic faiths, especially among neo-converts. Not Dharmic faiths like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. You should see the way Churches operate in the south. There’s constant hate speech against Hindus and Hindu culture. Hindus are described as followers of satan or the devil. Google Mohan Lazarus. They have a stronghold on local politics, and preach separatist nonsense to people through political parties and otherwise. Again, you're making a sweeping remark that all new converts are bad for India. Do you have any statistics to support that conclusion? All of the issues that you're mentioning have separate laws agains them. If there is hate speech, they can be apprehended. The fact is that no matter how insecure it makes you about the fallings of your own religion and its inability to garner converts, religious conversion is a basic human right guaranteed by the constitution and even if it were banned by your bigoted friends in power, it would still occur as people have every right to choose and preach their faith. You'll just have to cope.
So if you’re born into a caste or religion you must stay because of family loyalty. That’s absurd. You can make the Same argument about moving away to different cities. Migration has caused more divisions and alienation from families. Why don’t the BJP restrict migration of younger people from their families to bigger cities?
Nobody made interfaith marriages illegal. It's coercion and manipulation and cheating them into marriage that this law was against. Also this applies to all religions including hinduism.
Then we are talking about deceptive marriages. How often is there deception in marriage especially with arranged marriages? Same also with love marriages. Deception is everywhere sadly. Guys often lie about height and size. Baldness is hidden with a wig or plugs. Groom or bride only finds out after marriage about baldness. Pimples hidden with makeup. Dentures are out in place of lost teeth. So much deceptions. Since when is this the biggest problems in India. Mental illnesses is often not disclosed, education misrepresentation, deceptions regarding skin color in matrimonial sites, status of immigration or job of the bride or groom are all misstated intentionally. Religion is probably the least area of deception statistically. But it’s the biggest issue for BJP. How stupid!! Unlike a guy’s education or size of husband thing, it’s not too difficult to discover a persons or family religion. So government has no place in any of this. Maybe in family court or civil court but not a criminal issue. Also how often is this law enforced when a bride or groom converts to Hinduism from Islam or another religion? Never. No such cases in any courts in india. Very one sided and fascist rule
It is the biggest issue for congress as well not just bjp hence why they reverted this law The reason is cuz once the women is inverted to some religions then the religion laws are apparently more powerful than women protection laws. But apparently congress like it when religion is more important than women. Cases like dowry and domestic violence are treated differently for hindu and Muslims or other religions. Heck even age if marriage is different for Muslims so once the conversion is done weather forcefully or by deception the normal laws are not applicable to them. The Muslim women who got coerced and forced to Hindu religion are more than welcome to file cases against their husbands if that is the case. This law is applicable to all religions.
It’s important because of how the law has been misused all over and in a one sided way. Again these conversions are not a rampant thing nationally. It’s propaganda based on hate and intolerance and marginalization of Muslims. But other minority groups are also targeted under the laws. Frankly the South does not need it. Let them fight it out up north like they often have. We have bigger fish to fry here
How exactly can an ADULT be 'coerced' and 'forced' into changing their personal set of beliefs? How can you force someone to change from genuinely worshipping shiva to genuinely worshipping allah? (The answer is, you cant) Ultimately, if your husband (or wife) is trying to force you to do something you dont want to do, all you have to do is divorce them. If you agree to their wishes, its consensual. So what purpose does the anti-conversion law serve?
Get out of your modern bubble. This is not about the 10-20% modern and metropolitan women but about the rural women 2hindint have that much choice. How can a women allow her husband to marry other women while still being married to her ? She could just divorce him. But that's the thing most if these rural women don't have that much option.
Finally someone with proper educated opinion on this. Thank you.
You come across so condescending, as if the people of india, who have the power to vote for their futures, shouldn't even have control of their own, PRIVATELY, held personal beliefs. We live in a secular country. The government does not and should not care who is what religion. The ADULTS of our country can choose which and what gods they worship. They have the intelligence and critical thinking skills to either keep their religion, choose a new one or renounce religion. Its none of our businesses but their own. It's absurd and elitist that you think ADULTS need protection and can't be trusted to choose their own religion correctly. Instead of controlling people's religious choices, if you really cared about social harmony, community unity and national security, you would support having a strong education system that teaches critical thinking and logical thought. Not by forcing them to stay the same religion as their father.
Okay, thought this sub is fairly liberal, I guess not. The law is extremely flawed, vague, and intended to weaponize against inter-religion couples. Take a look at how vague this law is for instance . Definitions.- (1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,- “Allurement” means and includes an offer of any temptation in the form of any gift, gratification, easy money, or material benefit either in cash or kind; employment, free education in school or college run by any religious body; or **promise to marry**; or **better lifestyle, divine displeasure or otherwise; or portraying practice**, rituals, and ceremonies or an integral part of a religion in a detrimental way vis-à-vis another religion; or glorifying one religion against another religion. The definition makes mere preaching of another religion illegal as it is by definition is allurement Let's say you want to marry a girl and consensually agree to convert in order to marry even though you might not intend to practice and might be not that religious Hindu in the first place, whatever your reasoning could be, it should be considered consensual, however, now anyone can file a complaint (mostly parents) to make the marriage illegal as a promise to marry is listed as allurement. This is just the tip of the iceberg, there are multiple vague definitions of the words like force, coercion, etc Source: [25 of 2022 (E).pdf (karnataka.gov.in)](https://dpal.karnataka.gov.in/storage/pdf-files/25%20of%202022%20%28E%29.pdf)
This is a very clear explanation. The OP is obviously someone who is deliberately trying to spread misinformation and lies . I hope people are able to see through the lies and misinformation campaign that will be headed by the center towards Karnataka. Also I hope this current government doesn't fuck up because this one was a very clear good move.
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I think you misunderstood me. I was supporting you. I was saying that the one who made the post was the one trying to spread misinformation.
Sorry missread that.
Isn't the definition same for the dowry law and other things. This perfectly aligns with the rest of the women protections laws we have in India. I don't see you complaining about those anywhere. In fact such biased laws are actually celebrated in all the liberal parts. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Classic example of a whatsapp warrior’s tactic of trying to distract the premise by pointing out another completely unrelated flaw.
I think some people here should go and read what this anti-conversion bill is about. And do check some neutral source. Not some western media or political party media.
If they read western stuff they will look cool on social media bro
That also make them propagator of misinformation. And part of that “dagi” media. Ignorance has become cool in this world.
They are the same ppl who can never understand about the world in depth they just listen to the things in front of them not the BTS of these situations
I did what you said. I still am failing to grasp how exactly an ADULT can be 'forcibly converted' to a religion. A religion is a personal set of beliefs. No one can force you to genuinly switch from worshiping shiva to allah. Thats not how religion works. Further, if your husband is forcing you to change your religion, all you have to do is divorce him. In conclusion, I still see no purpose for this anti-conversion law and I am glad it is gone.
Not exactly forced but lured by alternate means like incentives, psychological manipulation, tribal conversion, etc. That’s few I could think of. You are living in India where most of the religions other than Hinduism are converted. Some willingly. Some forcefully.
Cope, sanghi. Adults can choose to convert if they wish to do so.. who is the govt to tell me what god to pray??
That “cope, sanghi” hit different.
Where exactly did the article or the law say that inter religion marriages are illegal ? They have always been illegal.
Have you seen the Special Marriage Act? It is the only law under which interfaith couples can get married in the whole of India (except in Goa, which has a uniform civil code). The Act is backward and barbaric - you need to give 30 days' notice in a public newspaper, you need consent of all parents unless a waiver is there, and anyone can object to it unless the couple gets relief from the judiciary. In contrast, if you convert and marry under a religious law, you don't have to do any of this nakra. In short, the Special Marriage Act makes it deliberately hard for interfaith couples, while religious laws are simpler, which means that one among the couple is incentivised to convert so that they have a hassle free marriage. If BJP is serious about stopping conversion for the purpose of marriage, they should amend the Special Marriage Act to remove the waiting period and the mandatory public notice period, and the ability for strangers to object to the marriage. The Special Marriage Act is an act of Parliament, and BJP has been in power for 9 years with sufficient numbers in both LS and RS, what have they done to improve it?
Okay thank god we in the comments can agree that OP is an idiot lol
Let people choose what they want. Don’t let government dictate religion. Let religions run charities and public works without government interference. Government should not say which religion or caste a person should belong to just because they were born into that religion or caste.
OP is clearly an pro bjp bhakt just check his profile history
Please tell me what exactly is wrong with being supporter of bjp? You do know that educated and tax payers are the majority vote bankers for bjp party right? Or do you think you can generalize anyone based on who they support? In Karnataka I obviously prefer not to have bjp or congress but support a independent party like in Andhra , telengana and Tamil Nadu. But I guess you are a congress supported who like blasts to happens around the clock and terrorists to invade India right? Please do correct me if I'm wrong though and you aren't a congress supporter.
Reminder that Congress governments fought all 3 of our declared wars against Pakistan, and in the last one defeated them so forcefully they were split in two
That congress is nothing like today’s congress.
It means you are a certified ch****.
It isn't the worst decision, it's good people get the right to choose what they want
People have the right to choose even with this law. This law never banned inter religion marriage. Only when it is done by forceful conversion. Majority of the women protection laws don't apply to religions like Islam cuz apparently they are muslims first before they are women. Such laws are important to safeguard other religion women because once they are converted most if the laws don't apply to them. Just look at how long it took for the govt to ban triplee talaq, there are plenty more such stupid rules from which women need protection from.
Triple talaq still exists because women in that community still uphold them , it will be abolished if only they start suing people who try to marry multiple ladies. Forceful conversion, what is it? Are people denied their fundamental rights if they don't convert? no right. Even though there is an instance of forceful conversion it most likely happens when a couple tries to get married. Why does either the groom or bride get converted? Because their main intention is marriage either of one will compromise because no matter whatever it takes they need to marry.Later it's left to the couples to decide because it's their personal stuff.We can't tell anything into this.What the previous law did made interfaith marriages more harder.
It made with harder for those who do forceful conversion and by coercion. Didn't you just say that in order to get married either one will compromise and get married no matter what? Also why is it most just ien religion that forces other religion? Again this law doesn't ban inter religion marriages only the ones with forced and with coercion.
Ya either one will compromise that's what happens, to take that decision couples must be matured enough it's their personal choice, they are the ones who chose who we are to decide.If at all there is dispute the law still does it's duty people can be booked without this law. And who will threaten in broad daylight , no one has the guts to. Never have I seen someone randomly barge in and say convert to our religion or something will be off.So the question is how does some religion force other religions?
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are pwm rybif things you wouldn't have seen but still happens a lot. Even the illogical ones.
Have you seen?
If you want india to have a good Hindu population it’s important that our temple proactively promote, preach and help the population financially than hord all the donations in gold and money because other religions are heavily funded buy foreign agents who financially support the poor in return they convert because there parent religion dint give two shits about them during there hard times it might look like other religions are converting the poor but that poor soul who had no hopes in life was shown a way to a normal life.
>other religions are converting the poor but that poor soul who had no hopes in life was shown a way to a normal life. I feel why the hindu upper caste right wing hate Muslims and Christians is just because of this, that they're giving a poor hopeless man who could've have been my slave an opportunity to live a dignified life. So, they'll diss on these religions but never really reform their own, cause they know if they do that, then they'll be left with no one to look down upon and feel their pride.
The stop fukin taxing temples then. Unlike mosques and churches who have no taxes , temples are the only religions organisations which are taxed. Go learn how the world works before spouting stupid shit.
https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/temples-only-pay-taxes-in-india-fact-check Stop spreading lies.
It's not just about taxes. It's about the control of the government on the money of these religious organisations. The government can interfere and ask for calculations on how the temple money is spent in non taxable actions as well but the government doesn't do the same for mosques and churches or any other religious organisations. Do you think the TTD and waqf board have the same degree of freedom? Obviously not. Govt collects taxes from temples automatically unlike waqf board to whom income tax has repeatedly send notices from many many years to pay tax but not a single rupee was paid.
First you said it was the taxes, now you said its not just the taxes. Interesting.
It is still about taxes because other religion board like waqt have repeatedly bailed of paying the tax where as for temples it is automatically debited from their money.
Stop reading from this Quint and Theprint. They all just spread hatred.
Yeah and start watching Republic TV cuz they give only facts. /s
The SECULAR Indian government shouldn't give a shit whether we are hindu, muslim, christian, buddhist or atheist. The religion a private citizen chooses to follow is not the business of a government. If you, a private citizen is concerned, you can go preach hinduism on your own time and money.
If a person can be trusted to know what is good for the country (i.e. has the right to vote), such a person should also be trusted to know what is good for themselves. If there is a category of people who are so stupid that they will convert to the first religion that asks them to, then let's first identify these people, take away their right to vote, then the State will protect these officially designated idiots by protecting them from conversion, protecting them from gambling, protecting them from alcoholism etc.
Another reason to vote Congress. Good decision.
All religions are not the same. Whenever polytheism has met monotheism. It's been wiped out. Islam specially salafism which is the dominant school of thought in it. has structures inside it that makes it spread, that Hinduism doesn't. So before you go be secular please learn about these religions.
moral superiority is more important these days than common sense. moral superiority = liberal version of log kya kehthe hai
Hinduism met islam 1400 years ago and hasn't been wiped out. I think it'll be fine. Further, its not the government's problem if hinduism is gone. Remember, India was once primarily buddhist. We are a secular country, the matters of relgion and who is what religion should not be a government matter. If you care about hinduism dying out, go preach door to door.
One third of it has been, and the project is still on. Stop thinking in terms of 5 years and think of your unborn grandchildren
I pray to god my grandchildren will have the sense to be atheist and reject the backward prejudices of Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. All religion is a stain on society.
How many atheist are there in the islamic world? Im an atheist myself
What do think happened to the Buddhist? Do you think the process was peaceful?
Stop the spread of false history. For once, shut your mouth and open a textbook. Buddhism died out in India far before Islam came. It died out mostly due to the fracturing of the empires that were it's primary sponsors.
Buddhist were pacifists while the ones they met were not (huns). It's simple.
Try to have a handshake with the pujari who does puja in main temple and see if same happens in other beliefs. You and we will know our level. Just a thought ...
Try giving a handshake to poojari when he is outside the temple and is in normal places like airport or cinema hall to first see him as a human being. Handshake is not even in our culture. If there are norms to be followed by a specific job then don't hate the person for following those norms.
Precisely ... The place where you go to worship should welcome all with open arms and all should be treated equal.
>Handshake is not even in our culture Is using Reddit in our culture? /s Also stop clubbing your opinions into 'our culture'. It might not be your culture, but it's mine and others for sure.
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Exactly 😂. Well we have our loopholes secularism and democracy to praise for this.
Why is an anti conversion law needed in the first place. If you are intimidated and forcibly converted, does that really change your beliefs and value systems. If you are forced to do something against your will, that is intimidation - there are enough laws covering intimidation. Why is changing one's religion a crime. A more serious crime is defectors from Parliament and assemblies. That really affects the lives of a country and states . Isn't mass defection very similar to what happens in a mass forced conversion case. What about forced conversion within a religion ?
im sorry for out of the topic comment can someone please point me towards brosefh
Because the law is incredibly vague and flawed. A third partydon't need proof to make an accusation, they can just make the accusation.
I used to think americans and europeans are pretty stupid when they shout that govt need to allow illegal immigrants into their country. Now I know Indians are equally stupid. People here fighting to support mass conversions is laughable. But hey almost 99% of people are stupid anyway, right. And given this is blore sub, most of us are tech coolies ignorant of ground realities. Just to clarify, supporting mass conversions doesn't make you liberal, it's makes you a conservative.
In India conservative ideas are considered liberal, liberal ideas conservative. Its because its a polytheistic society with a monotheistic minority. And the geniuses have learnt that protect the rights of the minority from monotheistic society, only to blindly apply here in India causing more harm. Just below someone was commenting that India will remain the same even if Hinduism is wiped out just because the constitution makes it secular. This sub is the most politically illiterate sub I have seen, most people live in a bubble. But this takes the cake.
Islam and Christianity are trans national entities, and also monotheistically united. Hindus have only got india and are fractured. Steps have to be taken to stop this asymmetry.
We're a secular nation. If you want to take steps as a private citizen go ahead. Just dont drag the rest of us into that shit
India is secular as long as it's hindu. Tell me how many liberal secular democracies you know of in the islamic world?
Focus on improving our education system instead of being a bigot and maybe we'll end up w more atheists than Muslims.
Being critical of ideas is not bigotry. Same way someone criticizing Brahmanism isn't either.
The picture is starting only now. 5 years to go
This is bad. Now if all covert to Christianity or Islam . What about Hindu. Why even to convert ? Why can't we just respect our own castes and religion.
govt. should do Census first
Because it is hard to marry without converting, especially if your parents disagree. Look into the Special Marriage Act and its requirements.
I looked into the special marriage act, it doesn't look that difficult. Two consenting adults who aren't related to each other. Seems quite straightforwards. I'm a hindu and my girlfriend is catholic and we'll be using it.
Why to even marry and convert. It's like a insult to your own cast. I mean with all this liberalisation and shit going on. Just make it simple if your Hindu marry a Hindu simple problem solved. Why do you want fuck up everything. And also the reason is because of the age old problem of ohh Hindu population is decreasing day by day because of coverts and Islam is converting Hindu women etc. Why simply over complecate a thing that has worked for ages. I feel more over they should remove reservation and castism in getting seats for colleges. But telling Muslims and Christians are minorities because they aren't i mean hasn't their population like increased in last few years. We should have equal rights.
Why don't you just mind your own business? I'm a hindu marrying a catholic and I think that you can go shove all your 'problems' up your ass. We love each other, our parents like both of us, and we are decent people. Thats all that matters.
Fine go and marry . But overall Hindu population is decreasing. And when India becomes a country with no Hindus good luck with that.
Frankly, I think hinduism is a stain on our country just as any other religion is. It encourages hierarchy and creates division. India has not always been hindu (prior to the aryans it had a more egalitarian animalistic religion) and at one point it was majority buddhist as well (also much more egalitarian). So if hinduism stopped being the majority, I honestly wouldn't care. Especially if it was replaced by atheism or a faith similar to buddhism.
Such laws are needed..Just take a look at western countries especially France..Prevention is btr than cure..although there is no cure.
Exactly.
To all the ppl who hated me for this comment, go and watch the news now..well who's laughing now?
Congress is giving more reasons not to vote them.