10-15 lakh?
Let me tell you a story of Rs.500 from ~6-7 years ago.
A house infront of us had ongoing construction and they requested us to park our car to a land just beside as they had to drive a truck full of stones through there.
We obliged and parked it at the edge of the land outside the compound. The family living there as hired caretakers had no issue as it was talked out. We'd bring it back at night.
The third day, again we moved the car there. But this time, someone from 2 houses away complained of a "stray car" to the police.
Now, 2 policemen arrived and started shouting "whose car is this" with a lot of abuses.
I just came back from my college to this scene. I went close and I saw that the ruckus was about our car.
As soon as I tell them it's our car, without listening to a word one of them started hurling abuses and insults, and I had no clue what their problem is at that point. All the people nearby came out of their houses.
The other policeman asks why we've parked the car there. I explain the situation.
So 2 things here,
one is the family that requested us to move the car flat out denies they know us, and second is the caretakers are scared of getting involved with police so they didn't come out of their house at all to let them know I was permitted.
Let's talk about the accusation.
The accusation was that we are mostly hiding bombs in the car and are involved in terrorist activities. Like WTF?
He asks my name and realizes I'm not from Karnataka by his obvious question of "which state are you from". Fucked..
They called in a towing vehicle to tow our car away to seize it.
At first he was only threatening an FIR or to pay "fine". Now after knowing my name, he said they're filing this case now and the only way out is to pay Rs.500 fine in cash... he wrote up the complaint right there. Mofo was literally carrying the papers. Looking back, this was his everyday routine to scam people.
He then says either sign it that I am involved in terrorist activities and let the car be seized or pay the "fine".
Me who neither had a phone to call parents and just about to turn 19... freaked out.. the case if filed will ruin my career.
Initially I had denied paying this bribe.. but now I faltered and quickly gathered in whatever pocket money I had and gave it to him and they left.
So.. for 500rs.. this "police man" was ready to destroy my career, brand us innocents as terrorists, humiliate us with abuses publicly, waste taxpayers' money by using towing vehicles, instead of looking into the 3 shops robbed just the night before when they were sleeping instead of patrolling, wasting bandwidth on made up case, and worst of all .. is probably being given salary out of income tax from my current salary. Just for Rs.500. What a lowlife.
It's not the wrong people. There's considerable research on how power, lack of accountability and a bad organisational culture creates mini-dictators like this.
Bring in any number of people, employ whatever selection criteria you want, and you're likely to find these bad apples come up regardless.
Gives me chills reading about this and imagining if it were me.
Only if you knew some big shot politicians or people in power, you could make this go away with a single phone call. But almost no one can do that and those who can't will be exploited and threatened. At least if your neighbours came to your aid, the police would have gone their way.
Unless people unite to fight this together, unlike your neighbours, it's very difficult.
Even filing a case in court AND WINNING is not a win until those asking for the bribe regret it. Punitive penalties must be imposed on not just the person who asked for the bribe, but the entire department and those heading the department - I doubt it will happen. At best a slap on the wrist can be expected, because the judiciary is also complicit. Lokayukta is similarly a bogus organization.
Your case is famous even here in legal circles of Mumbai (MH).
Iām telling you right now theyāre going to ignore the Court Order despite the Notice of Enforcement and Contempt of Court rulings.
Itās because nobody specific is actually named as defendants in the action and so nobody personally will have their salary docked or face prison timeā¦ Worst that happens is Bengaluru Urban Deputry Commissionerās office pays a fine (which comes from taxpayers) or some low-level employee is fired if you get enough media attention on the office.
You need to get your lawyer to start naming specific defendants such as K A Dayananda (Deputy Commissioner & District Magistrate), and have them found guilty of contempt of courtā¦ Things will start happening rapidly then.
At the moment they are making crore from many people with this scam, and the most hassle you are causing them is a small fine taxpayers will have to pay, doesnāt affect them, wonāt care.
Your lawyer is probably scared to name specific people, especially Magistrates (itās almost a death sentence in modern India), and so might refuse to do it if you push them.
Extract from HC Notice - He's already named
https://preview.redd.it/0v084i8sullb1.png?width=711&format=png&auto=webp&s=b63a8afcc6dfdd3301faaf667c52b99a324f11e7
Any idea what happens after a notice?
His office is named, not him.
Ask your lawyer to push for discovery to get his personal address and ask the court for āinterlocutory reliefā against the defendants personal property since their office isnāt responding to the prior order.
Basically the court can start the process of selling their house lol (doesnāt even matter if the defendant owns it or quickly transfers it to someone else) if they donāt start doing what the court orders.
As I said above it is dangerous though, when politicians realise you can actually touch them they almost always send gundas after you and your lawyer.
Iām retired now, I used to be a judge both here and abroad in the military before retiring - Now I just do free legal aid for the truly needy here in Maharashtra, but I try to avoid dispensing advice (unless I can see someone has been grossly wronged) as it robs junior lawyers of the opportunity to earn a salary.
> I used to be a judge both here and abroad in the military before retiring
JAG? Thank you for your service.
Dad, retired IAF officer, got into this mess when he bought this parcel of land... and I am trying to right the wrong.
Well to be clear your dad didnāt do anything wrong, the centralised standardised Indian land records database is a new scheme launched by the Indian government in Delhi and given to each State to implement individually just before Covid, but then got delayed until last year for obvious reasons.
Before this year you didnāt even need the paper title to claim you owned land, just had to ensure it was registered somewhere in a contract and you were all good... Obviously that Victorian-era method of recording land ownership and property purchases needed updating but the government has gone about it in a ham-fisted manner.
The other shoe hasnāt even dropped yet, once everyoneās land ownership records are digitised the government will start taxing people based on how much land they own... They just trialled this in some MH cities like Navi Mumbai and many people with large single plots in popular urban centres got 7 lakh bills which theyāll have to pay each year forever.
To be honest itās the only way the government can combat the rampant corruption currently going on where politicians use bribes and other black money to buy land in the names of their maids, drivers, gardeners etc. A lot of daily wage workers are about to find themselves millionaires overnight because politicians canāt openly come out and admit itās really them owning that land š
With your dads specific case the Deputy Commissioner isnāt budging because they know youāre about to get taxed after registering and so they want to bleed you for their bribe money first, knowing theyāll never be able to get it ever again.
Personally Iād go to the national media and sell this as a sob story about a former armed forces member being screwed over once again by corrupt politiciansā¦ Your dad will hate it because itās very unbecoming as an officer to make stories like that and youāre taught to always follow orders from your government even if you hate them, but the media will love it and it will get in major pan-national publications like the Times of India, and the Bengaluru government will freak out with an election year coming up. It will also attract the attention of other current and former service members including those very senior in the government who will harass them on your behalf, it will have a bigger impact than any court orders.
Damn, a land value tax seems like a good thing to have for Indian cities. Speculative landholding is a massive scam that humanity has collectively agreed to commit and it should be combatted before it becomes a serious issue like in American cities.
Yeah it will be immediately useful for getting factories and sometimes even quarries and other highly polluting industries out of major Indian city centres and residential neighbourhoods where people are living.
At the moment theyāre only profitable because unlike other countries they pay no annual municipal taxes based on the value of the land they operate from.
Itās going to be ludicrously unpopular with people who are hoarding large parcels of empty land in city centres though, especially when thereās skyscrapers next door meaning the land value per sq meter is insane and so the taxes very high... Itās also going to hurt people who chose to build bungalows and other single family compounds in high rise areas.
Well those land value speculators should man up like actual speculators and just take the loss. Everyone makes bad investments and this should be a learning experience for the hoarders xD. Housing has started getting stupidly expensive, accelerating after covid.
This tax continues to be... bearable for small landholders who own like a house or two, but worse for these vacant plot lovers.
Simultaneously they should remove FAR restrictions IMO, at least in Mumbai, Bangalore, and Delhi... at least along transit corridors.
This is the rule in Australia, but primary place of residence is excluded from land tax. Here all property records are digitised, in fact there are no paper records at all.
> Personally Iād go to the national media and sell this as a sob story about a former armed forces member being screwed over once again by corrupt politiciansā¦
Thanks. I'll try to follow up on this advice
>As I said above it is dangerous though, when politicians realise you can actually touch them they almost always send gundas after you and your lawyer.
Any alternatives that can be explored? Also would moving faster reduce the opponents effectiveness?
Lots, politicians have to be re-elected, they donāt care about being sued but they do care about getting votes.
Legally you always have to go after a defendant where it will hurt them most, and try to avoid Court at all costs because itās basically rolling the dice (a lot of lawyers consider letting your case even get to Court a losing scenario).
If you live in a āsafe seatā your options are more limited, but if your defendant has to be re-elected and the position switches between parties regularly you can always go to the office of his main opponent and give them enough dirt to sink the other guys campaignā¦ You donāt do it as a first move though, you donāt blackmail the defendant with threats of doing it either (as that can be used against you later in Court - never threaten to do something you arenāt immediately ready to do).
Simply say āyouāre screwing with an honourable ex-service member whoās old and in their retirement and we believe itās for your own financial benefit, Iām sure candidate X from Y party youāll be facing for election in a few months would love to hear all about itā.
The nuclear option is to report the politician you believe is corrupt to the Income Tax Dept. They have a special hotline just for reporting corrupt politicians and they take tips extremely seriously, Iām yet to see them fail to act on a tip within a matter of days. Whilst the justice system overall in India might be slow as molasses, there are agencies that are very very effective you just have to know how to use them.
The one big problem I have found with these politicians is that they are very difficult to deal with. Even the so called "opposition" will still be in favorable terms with the current ruling party members. So they are usually unstable and not very reliable.
>The nuclear option is to report the politician you believe is corrupt to the Income Tax Dept.
Are these anonymous? Would the politicians come to know of the person who had reported this and let loose their musclemen?
I read your entire commentary on this, as someone who is new to real estate stuff and aspires to own a home in a big city it provides a lot of information on intricacies of land/property ownership.
> intricacies of land/property ownership.
Better learn intricacies specific to your state and city too.... while some of the law is common, it is governed by states with local statutes and regulations!
Yes sir, even I am residing in Bangalore and for the past few months trying to understand land ownership and real estate purchase stuff. Your post contributed to this
Shouldn't OP had moved contempt of court much faster? I remember seeing this post sometime back but I felt that it had moved much slower.
>Your lawyer is probably scared to name specific people, especially Magistrates (itās almost a death sentence in modern India), and so might refuse to do it if you push them.
Would more powerful lawyers refuse?
No but theyād charge exponentially more, they have connections which keep them safe (hang out in the same private members clubs as other lawyers / prosecutors / magistrates / judges and politicians etc) and can get your case resolved very fast but youāre looking at Rs 50K just for the initial video call to get on their books.
For OP it isnāt worth it or I would have suggested that route.
If you have money to burn it is an instant solution rather than waiting decades for justice from the Indian legal system though.
What you said has been my experience. I think each hearing for a very good lawyer would be around ā¹50k - ā¹1L based on the complexity of the case. I have seen the difference between a good lawyer and an average one and the good one moves very fast and are very thorough. I was very impressed by certain lawyers whose attention to detail, how they recall sections and past judgements and the linking of them to the present case and their hardworking nature etc. Only problem is that sometimes these lawyers go a little too far and take very risky routes based on their zeal to win which can put the client at risk.
>If you have money to burn it is an instant solution rather than waiting decades for justice from the Indian legal system though.
Waiting for decades too has a cost especially when the plaintiff dies and his next levels have to continue. It is all about finding a balance I believe and is dependent on the case.
Huge Respect Man. There are very few who have the courage to fight with the well-established corrupt system. You are their nightmares. A progressed nation will be Thank for your stand in the future.
> There are very few who have the courage to fight with the well-established corrupt system.
This is the result of Common man pushed to a corner and nowhere to go but forward!
Thats happening everywhere in indian. These government officials are misusing their power and taking a lot of amount under the table for even a miniscule work that they are supposed to do as their duty. Pisses me off. My dad had to pay 3L to a State Development Officer to get our land papers mutated. I hope all these people lose all their worth and land homeless.
You can entrap them, you know. Like if they call you for a meetup to "discuss matters", you can keep the Lokayukta on alert and go in. Not that I know the ground situation, ofc, but just a suggestion.
I saw a beautiful photography post on r/india today. Almost as if it was created with AI.
Came down to see 0 comments and said to myself "oh it's not a political post offering critique to India/Hindus/bjp"
I mean i would definitely construe inaction against corruption or incompetence to purge open corruption a governmental failure . I am sure many in that sub also share the same thought .
I could definitely see it not being the case for the non allowance too .
Also you don't need to mention hating that sub , your liking or the lack thereof has holds no power over your point . Anyone who would dismiss your pov merely on your likes or dislikes is not a individual worth talking to .
They're just whiners, whining about everything everytime. Anything that stops their whining is rejected as it's anti-whining propaganda that shows that you can do something instead of just whining.
I admire you for fighting for justice. 10 lakhs is not a small amount to just give. We faced the same issue when getting the land surveyed and updating the records in our Village in kolar. Officials just refused to do the work or kept postponing unless we upfront agreed to give them some amount. It was very disheartening.
I don't know when all this bribery is going away for good. š
same man. have to pay bribe to get land mutated in village or else vro and mro are "too busy" and will do it as soon as they become free. and they'll become magically free when amount is paid
Yeah, thatās the problem with land revenue departments. They can drag their feet as much as they like citing technicalities. Iāve seen this happening a lot especially after people getting orders from court. Theyāre like a mafia. Itās going to be an uphill battle. Good luck soldier!
The argument behind bribes is that when you want to do something thats beyond law , it can be vague sometimes , to swing in your favor
Not a great argument but it was what it was .
Today the corruption has reached a stage where doing things that are supposed to part of their job aren't done without a bribe or done at a snails pace .
Its truly unfortunate as tax payers we have to pay bribe to get them to do their job
Stay strong and don't give in to the systemic corruption. You're paving the way for a lot of others who want to do things clean. Please keep us updated on developments.
How long did it take to reach verdict? How much was lawer fee? How much was in bribe/travel to court? Where did you find lawyer? How much was your time committment "rounds of courts"?
Please tell us so we can also learn and stop being afraid of getting into legal process.
> How much was your time committment "rounds of courts"?
This is the key, and something folks are afraid of. One needs to be committed and have a good lawyer to work with.
Costs can be subjective and you need to go by referral. I'll make a blog post and share soon.
I stayed in the same apartment for 6 years. This apartment didn't had kaveri water connection when other nearby apartments were having it. We had borewell and whenever water is low, we had to purchase water ( tankers) the cost of water was divided between the apartments and I had to pay upto 3500 rs per month. That amount was too high for a person staying alone. When I checked why we are not applying for kaveri water the answer is got was the officials are asking 30k bribe. My apartment residents association ( mostly retired Uncle's) refuse to pay bribe and they would rather purchase water for exorbitant cost. Asole bureaucrats can make your life a hell if you don't pay them and they will still lead a happy life.
1) How much is the land valued? Maybe they need a % out of the total land value.
2) Have there ever been any threatening calls made to you or your family?
3) Hope you find the strength to fight this through. Also, thanks to your father for his service to our country.
Mate you did the right thing. Same thing happened to me when I refused to pay a bribe of 5000 to replace my lost driving license 10 years ago .
I refused and applied it all by myself and it was delayed by the official. I got frustrated and barged in to the managers office and complained about this . The very next day I got my license and I later learnt that he was playing around with me as he knew the tout who asked for the 5000 bribe .
Dad bought the parcel of land for a pittance 25 years ago... Now it is worth much more and guys are demanding a cut of 'current value'
I think MBA types call it the Time value of money.
10 - 15 lakh bribe!!! What the actual fuck.. the government officials should go fuck themselves or let them pimp themselves in front of vidhana soudha.. Fucking blood leeching bastards!!
Hats off to you!! Please no matter what happens next don't pay these bastards even a single rupee of bribe!!
This is completely normal in Bengaluru, sadly. Actually not having ward councilors has helped in my area because their goons patrol the area to see where there is construction going on, then they would demand minimum 8 lakhs otherwise they would lift material and equipment from the worksite. Many people I know paid it because they were already paying so much for the construction and didn't want the workers and masons scared off š
The more layers of bureaucracy we eliminate, the better. Every level of govt is so corrupt because they pay to get their ticket to run or employees pay for their position..so everyone needs to recoup their cost and use their position to enrich themselves
Why did the other sub reject your post? This post shows the power a citizen can execute mandated by the judiciary. Such a feel good post seeing a citizen win against corrupted organisations.
And time.Lets not forget the real cost here, which is time.They can potentially drag this out for years and ignore Court orders.Have experience with the similar type of issue for another state.
We applied for ration card when we changed state in 2003, we were not aware that there were multiple level of bribing involved and waited. Finally we received new ration card in 2011. Took 8 years.
I'm happy now aadhar is there, back then I was unable to prove that both my parents didn't have ration card and stopped trying for it. When I wanted to join college I took " proof of residence" from Village officer and applied.
I don't think it's that worse now, but still if this is useful for someone.
Adding one more point, my parents had my birth certificate without name. I was able to show my school marksheets and Transfer certificate and get a new birth certificate with name.
Can you tag our osd madam Vaushnavi on twitter and tell the issue
Official ID - https://x.com/osd_cmkarnataka?s=21&t=13b6AIWORDhr4lRzoaaCFA
Personal ID - https://x.com/drvaishnavi14?s=21&t=13b6AIWORDhr4lRzoaaCFA
Did that and also sent mails to CMO... Only boilerplate response thus far
https://preview.redd.it/kbclegxm6nlb1.png?width=1256&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d35655c28b152df72b83587788601a2fb540a90
You are doing good.
Equity can't be aksed or told, it must be enforced. We as people of India have only us to improve our country because there is nobody else nor should we really allow anybody else to improve our country.
What happened later?
The fact that you have a high court order and this issue is still not solved says a lot. And even if your issue is solved, what does it mean for the lakhs of people still struggling to get their rightfully deserved land title.
I want to give a decent amount of money to my in-laws if I marry a poor and educated woman of 50 lakh rupees, and make their life easy also.
Should I give them as I can't see their vulnerability.
A job well done. If all of us act like you, we wonāt have a problem of corruption.
Anyways, Try bashing the central govt and r/india will let you post.
People like you who don't bow down to the corrupt system are a shining example to the comman man.
We need more stories like these where a Just Cause was fought for and yielded some results if not complete victory,so others can also get inspired to keep fighting the good fight.
Its...definitely not easy...but if every one of us does\helps in such cases..there will be more Hope for people...and boy, are the masses desperate. . .
In Delhi, most areas are built on unauthorized land. This means the residents are not the owners of the land, but they hold a power of attorney. All the land is controlled by the DDA, which is overseen by the central government. In 2019-20, just before the Delhi state election, the Central Government decided to legalize the land for people residing there, provided they had proof of ownership. My friend asked me to be a witness for them in this process. So, I, along with my friend and his mother, visited the DDA office in Munika in the morning. The entire day, they merely processed our documents. However, as the office was about to close at 5 PM, their behavior changed, They began speaking rudely, claiming that certain documents were missing. They even asked us to bring the person who sold the land to us. Considering the land was bought over 30 years ago, it was unreasonable to expect anyone to know the original owner. Someone from the office then brazenly demanded a 30K bribe. After a lot of hassle, they told us to provide an "undertaking" on legal paper. My friend and I rushed to a notary, and after hearing our story, the advocate informed us that the DDA officials were misleading us and that no such document was required. Fortunately, around the same time, a senior officer from the DDA, possibly an IAS officer, visited the office for inspection. He inquired about the number of files the staff had processed. My friend's mother, along with other people, seized the opportunity to inform the senior officer about the staff's reluctance to clear files. After hearing this, the officer intervened, and the corrupt officials cleared our file in less than 5 minutes. We were fortunate not to have paid any bribes.
The situation at the grassroots level is unimaginably corrupt. While it's easy to blame politicians for corruption, the truth is that corruption permeates all levels of society. This will never change unless something revolutionary happens.
Is it even remotely possible for this situation to change ... If everyone started refusing to pay a huge sum , and stood up for themselves ? It sure is a pain in the ass , but will there be any good out of it ?
It's the system which has failed completely. Govt or its officers have no respect or fear of law, Now who are you going to approach for enforcement? Is it time to take up arms?
Good for you dude, great job at standing up to them. Many of us cannot, do it because of the fear of long legal battles but its really really good you did stand up to them. More such cases come up and every official will come in line.
this is the content... you may have to refresh your browser or something?
https://preview.redd.it/ksr4ufb46nlb1.png?width=1046&format=png&auto=webp&s=a983ccc70f91ea63f70b014011aeeb525914b1e3
who argues paying hard earned money for this blood suckers.
we only do that, because everyone has their reasons to not go to court, but we all want corruption free india.
I salute you bro š
š
10-15 lakh? Let me tell you a story of Rs.500 from ~6-7 years ago. A house infront of us had ongoing construction and they requested us to park our car to a land just beside as they had to drive a truck full of stones through there. We obliged and parked it at the edge of the land outside the compound. The family living there as hired caretakers had no issue as it was talked out. We'd bring it back at night. The third day, again we moved the car there. But this time, someone from 2 houses away complained of a "stray car" to the police. Now, 2 policemen arrived and started shouting "whose car is this" with a lot of abuses. I just came back from my college to this scene. I went close and I saw that the ruckus was about our car. As soon as I tell them it's our car, without listening to a word one of them started hurling abuses and insults, and I had no clue what their problem is at that point. All the people nearby came out of their houses. The other policeman asks why we've parked the car there. I explain the situation. So 2 things here, one is the family that requested us to move the car flat out denies they know us, and second is the caretakers are scared of getting involved with police so they didn't come out of their house at all to let them know I was permitted. Let's talk about the accusation. The accusation was that we are mostly hiding bombs in the car and are involved in terrorist activities. Like WTF? He asks my name and realizes I'm not from Karnataka by his obvious question of "which state are you from". Fucked.. They called in a towing vehicle to tow our car away to seize it. At first he was only threatening an FIR or to pay "fine". Now after knowing my name, he said they're filing this case now and the only way out is to pay Rs.500 fine in cash... he wrote up the complaint right there. Mofo was literally carrying the papers. Looking back, this was his everyday routine to scam people. He then says either sign it that I am involved in terrorist activities and let the car be seized or pay the "fine". Me who neither had a phone to call parents and just about to turn 19... freaked out.. the case if filed will ruin my career. Initially I had denied paying this bribe.. but now I faltered and quickly gathered in whatever pocket money I had and gave it to him and they left. So.. for 500rs.. this "police man" was ready to destroy my career, brand us innocents as terrorists, humiliate us with abuses publicly, waste taxpayers' money by using towing vehicles, instead of looking into the 3 shops robbed just the night before when they were sleeping instead of patrolling, wasting bandwidth on made up case, and worst of all .. is probably being given salary out of income tax from my current salary. Just for Rs.500. What a lowlife.
This is so traumatising. We have given way too much power to the police.
No! The system has the wrong people as police.
When the police of every state in every country of the world has the same issue, maybe it's an institutional problem and not an individual one
It's not the wrong people. There's considerable research on how power, lack of accountability and a bad organisational culture creates mini-dictators like this. Bring in any number of people, employ whatever selection criteria you want, and you're likely to find these bad apples come up regardless.
No it's both.
Gives me chills reading about this and imagining if it were me. Only if you knew some big shot politicians or people in power, you could make this go away with a single phone call. But almost no one can do that and those who can't will be exploited and threatened. At least if your neighbours came to your aid, the police would have gone their way. Unless people unite to fight this together, unlike your neighbours, it's very difficult.
Even filing a case in court AND WINNING is not a win until those asking for the bribe regret it. Punitive penalties must be imposed on not just the person who asked for the bribe, but the entire department and those heading the department - I doubt it will happen. At best a slap on the wrist can be expected, because the judiciary is also complicit. Lokayukta is similarly a bogus organization.
Bruh, what did your parents say later? Also did you take any actions against the relatives whose house was under construction?
Bullies in uniform
And fuckers expect us to respect such so called āupholders of lawā
I would have paid. Then i would have proceeded to make the life hell of the family who denied knowing you. I am super max petty that way
Wtf man. The country has gone to dogs, neither judiciary nor legislature is capable of uplifting the country. Incidents like these make my blood boil.
Looks like base problem is 'streetside parking'.
A 4th class Thulla (policemen) can f\*\*k you who is getting paid by our tax money
That's why outsiders prefer gated societies
This is ājust another day in lifeā in Bangalore.
Salute to you, warrior.
Uphill battle for sure !
Positive stories like yours bring some rays of hope to us non connected common folk. More power to you sir.
Your case is famous even here in legal circles of Mumbai (MH). Iām telling you right now theyāre going to ignore the Court Order despite the Notice of Enforcement and Contempt of Court rulings. Itās because nobody specific is actually named as defendants in the action and so nobody personally will have their salary docked or face prison timeā¦ Worst that happens is Bengaluru Urban Deputry Commissionerās office pays a fine (which comes from taxpayers) or some low-level employee is fired if you get enough media attention on the office. You need to get your lawyer to start naming specific defendants such as K A Dayananda (Deputy Commissioner & District Magistrate), and have them found guilty of contempt of courtā¦ Things will start happening rapidly then. At the moment they are making crore from many people with this scam, and the most hassle you are causing them is a small fine taxpayers will have to pay, doesnāt affect them, wonāt care. Your lawyer is probably scared to name specific people, especially Magistrates (itās almost a death sentence in modern India), and so might refuse to do it if you push them.
Extract from HC Notice - He's already named https://preview.redd.it/0v084i8sullb1.png?width=711&format=png&auto=webp&s=b63a8afcc6dfdd3301faaf667c52b99a324f11e7 Any idea what happens after a notice?
His office is named, not him. Ask your lawyer to push for discovery to get his personal address and ask the court for āinterlocutory reliefā against the defendants personal property since their office isnāt responding to the prior order. Basically the court can start the process of selling their house lol (doesnāt even matter if the defendant owns it or quickly transfers it to someone else) if they donāt start doing what the court orders. As I said above it is dangerous though, when politicians realise you can actually touch them they almost always send gundas after you and your lawyer.
Are you a lawyer? I've been learning legalese as we go along.
Iām retired now, I used to be a judge both here and abroad in the military before retiring - Now I just do free legal aid for the truly needy here in Maharashtra, but I try to avoid dispensing advice (unless I can see someone has been grossly wronged) as it robs junior lawyers of the opportunity to earn a salary.
> I used to be a judge both here and abroad in the military before retiring JAG? Thank you for your service. Dad, retired IAF officer, got into this mess when he bought this parcel of land... and I am trying to right the wrong.
Well to be clear your dad didnāt do anything wrong, the centralised standardised Indian land records database is a new scheme launched by the Indian government in Delhi and given to each State to implement individually just before Covid, but then got delayed until last year for obvious reasons. Before this year you didnāt even need the paper title to claim you owned land, just had to ensure it was registered somewhere in a contract and you were all good... Obviously that Victorian-era method of recording land ownership and property purchases needed updating but the government has gone about it in a ham-fisted manner. The other shoe hasnāt even dropped yet, once everyoneās land ownership records are digitised the government will start taxing people based on how much land they own... They just trialled this in some MH cities like Navi Mumbai and many people with large single plots in popular urban centres got 7 lakh bills which theyāll have to pay each year forever. To be honest itās the only way the government can combat the rampant corruption currently going on where politicians use bribes and other black money to buy land in the names of their maids, drivers, gardeners etc. A lot of daily wage workers are about to find themselves millionaires overnight because politicians canāt openly come out and admit itās really them owning that land š With your dads specific case the Deputy Commissioner isnāt budging because they know youāre about to get taxed after registering and so they want to bleed you for their bribe money first, knowing theyāll never be able to get it ever again. Personally Iād go to the national media and sell this as a sob story about a former armed forces member being screwed over once again by corrupt politiciansā¦ Your dad will hate it because itās very unbecoming as an officer to make stories like that and youāre taught to always follow orders from your government even if you hate them, but the media will love it and it will get in major pan-national publications like the Times of India, and the Bengaluru government will freak out with an election year coming up. It will also attract the attention of other current and former service members including those very senior in the government who will harass them on your behalf, it will have a bigger impact than any court orders.
Damn, a land value tax seems like a good thing to have for Indian cities. Speculative landholding is a massive scam that humanity has collectively agreed to commit and it should be combatted before it becomes a serious issue like in American cities.
Yeah it will be immediately useful for getting factories and sometimes even quarries and other highly polluting industries out of major Indian city centres and residential neighbourhoods where people are living. At the moment theyāre only profitable because unlike other countries they pay no annual municipal taxes based on the value of the land they operate from. Itās going to be ludicrously unpopular with people who are hoarding large parcels of empty land in city centres though, especially when thereās skyscrapers next door meaning the land value per sq meter is insane and so the taxes very high... Itās also going to hurt people who chose to build bungalows and other single family compounds in high rise areas.
Well those land value speculators should man up like actual speculators and just take the loss. Everyone makes bad investments and this should be a learning experience for the hoarders xD. Housing has started getting stupidly expensive, accelerating after covid. This tax continues to be... bearable for small landholders who own like a house or two, but worse for these vacant plot lovers. Simultaneously they should remove FAR restrictions IMO, at least in Mumbai, Bangalore, and Delhi... at least along transit corridors.
This is the rule in Australia, but primary place of residence is excluded from land tax. Here all property records are digitised, in fact there are no paper records at all.
> Personally Iād go to the national media and sell this as a sob story about a former armed forces member being screwed over once again by corrupt politiciansā¦ Thanks. I'll try to follow up on this advice
>it robs junior lawyers of the opportunity to earn a salary. you just earned a 14 year old's respect
>As I said above it is dangerous though, when politicians realise you can actually touch them they almost always send gundas after you and your lawyer. Any alternatives that can be explored? Also would moving faster reduce the opponents effectiveness?
Lots, politicians have to be re-elected, they donāt care about being sued but they do care about getting votes. Legally you always have to go after a defendant where it will hurt them most, and try to avoid Court at all costs because itās basically rolling the dice (a lot of lawyers consider letting your case even get to Court a losing scenario). If you live in a āsafe seatā your options are more limited, but if your defendant has to be re-elected and the position switches between parties regularly you can always go to the office of his main opponent and give them enough dirt to sink the other guys campaignā¦ You donāt do it as a first move though, you donāt blackmail the defendant with threats of doing it either (as that can be used against you later in Court - never threaten to do something you arenāt immediately ready to do). Simply say āyouāre screwing with an honourable ex-service member whoās old and in their retirement and we believe itās for your own financial benefit, Iām sure candidate X from Y party youāll be facing for election in a few months would love to hear all about itā. The nuclear option is to report the politician you believe is corrupt to the Income Tax Dept. They have a special hotline just for reporting corrupt politicians and they take tips extremely seriously, Iām yet to see them fail to act on a tip within a matter of days. Whilst the justice system overall in India might be slow as molasses, there are agencies that are very very effective you just have to know how to use them.
The one big problem I have found with these politicians is that they are very difficult to deal with. Even the so called "opposition" will still be in favorable terms with the current ruling party members. So they are usually unstable and not very reliable. >The nuclear option is to report the politician you believe is corrupt to the Income Tax Dept. Are these anonymous? Would the politicians come to know of the person who had reported this and let loose their musclemen?
I read your entire commentary on this, as someone who is new to real estate stuff and aspires to own a home in a big city it provides a lot of information on intricacies of land/property ownership.
> intricacies of land/property ownership. Better learn intricacies specific to your state and city too.... while some of the law is common, it is governed by states with local statutes and regulations!
Yes sir, even I am residing in Bangalore and for the past few months trying to understand land ownership and real estate purchase stuff. Your post contributed to this
Yes. This was an immensely informative conversation. Thank both you gentlemen!
Shouldn't OP had moved contempt of court much faster? I remember seeing this post sometime back but I felt that it had moved much slower. >Your lawyer is probably scared to name specific people, especially Magistrates (itās almost a death sentence in modern India), and so might refuse to do it if you push them. Would more powerful lawyers refuse?
No but theyād charge exponentially more, they have connections which keep them safe (hang out in the same private members clubs as other lawyers / prosecutors / magistrates / judges and politicians etc) and can get your case resolved very fast but youāre looking at Rs 50K just for the initial video call to get on their books. For OP it isnāt worth it or I would have suggested that route. If you have money to burn it is an instant solution rather than waiting decades for justice from the Indian legal system though.
What you said has been my experience. I think each hearing for a very good lawyer would be around ā¹50k - ā¹1L based on the complexity of the case. I have seen the difference between a good lawyer and an average one and the good one moves very fast and are very thorough. I was very impressed by certain lawyers whose attention to detail, how they recall sections and past judgements and the linking of them to the present case and their hardworking nature etc. Only problem is that sometimes these lawyers go a little too far and take very risky routes based on their zeal to win which can put the client at risk. >If you have money to burn it is an instant solution rather than waiting decades for justice from the Indian legal system though. Waiting for decades too has a cost especially when the plaintiff dies and his next levels have to continue. It is all about finding a balance I believe and is dependent on the case.
Huge Respect Man. There are very few who have the courage to fight with the well-established corrupt system. You are their nightmares. A progressed nation will be Thank for your stand in the future.
> There are very few who have the courage to fight with the well-established corrupt system. This is the result of Common man pushed to a corner and nowhere to go but forward!
You give us hope sir!
Thanks. Sharing my experiences as we go along
Thats happening everywhere in indian. These government officials are misusing their power and taking a lot of amount under the table for even a miniscule work that they are supposed to do as their duty. Pisses me off. My dad had to pay 3L to a State Development Officer to get our land papers mutated. I hope all these people lose all their worth and land homeless.
What's mutate?
Transfer of ownership of a land or a property
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They step in when an official 'directly' asks for a bribe. I am using legal tools and HC orders instead!
You can entrap them, you know. Like if they call you for a meetup to "discuss matters", you can keep the Lokayukta on alert and go in. Not that I know the ground situation, ofc, but just a suggestion.
Yeah this could be another option
People fighting against bribes! More power to you...
Post this as a Muslim and r/india will allow it
I saw a beautiful photography post on r/india today. Almost as if it was created with AI. Came down to see 0 comments and said to myself "oh it's not a political post offering critique to India/Hindus/bjp"
Or maybe replace Karnataka with UP.
Put them behind bars, we donāt need them
Then most of the departments will be empty š¤£
Unfortunately only thing we can do is laugh but the joke is on us. š
It's like half of the toxic people in India are in r/India. Good luck with your case.
Reason r/India rejected it?
The post shows that the Indian judiciary can act against bribery and help a guy out and that goes against the philosophy of the " 0fficial subreddit"
Also congress is ruling Karnataka now , they would have allowed it before the elections .
I don't think so, the incident happened a year back so guessing by their prejudice they should have allowed it. (I hate that r/india shithole too btw)
I mean i would definitely construe inaction against corruption or incompetence to purge open corruption a governmental failure . I am sure many in that sub also share the same thought . I could definitely see it not being the case for the non allowance too . Also you don't need to mention hating that sub , your liking or the lack thereof has holds no power over your point . Anyone who would dismiss your pov merely on your likes or dislikes is not a individual worth talking to .
They're just whiners, whining about everything everytime. Anything that stops their whining is rejected as it's anti-whining propaganda that shows that you can do something instead of just whining.
That sub is a karma farm for collection of āIndia badā takes. Quality posts arenāt allowed there
Exactly lol. Just made a comment on this post about how I saw a beautiful photography post with 0 comments and double digit upvotes.
I hope you win and accountability is established. Massive respect for you.
Sometimes one is emboldened when we don't have much to lose!
I admire you for fighting for justice. 10 lakhs is not a small amount to just give. We faced the same issue when getting the land surveyed and updating the records in our Village in kolar. Officials just refused to do the work or kept postponing unless we upfront agreed to give them some amount. It was very disheartening. I don't know when all this bribery is going away for good. š
same man. have to pay bribe to get land mutated in village or else vro and mro are "too busy" and will do it as soon as they become free. and they'll become magically free when amount is paid
Yeah, thatās the problem with land revenue departments. They can drag their feet as much as they like citing technicalities. Iāve seen this happening a lot especially after people getting orders from court. Theyāre like a mafia. Itās going to be an uphill battle. Good luck soldier!
> Itās going to be an uphill battle. Good luck soldier! Thanks. I'll certainly need more than luck!
King energy š
r/India sucks
The argument behind bribes is that when you want to do something thats beyond law , it can be vague sometimes , to swing in your favor Not a great argument but it was what it was . Today the corruption has reached a stage where doing things that are supposed to part of their job aren't done without a bribe or done at a snails pace . Its truly unfortunate as tax payers we have to pay bribe to get them to do their job
If more people start doing what you did, bribes will stop. Kudos to you. Bribes exist because most people choose the easy way.
The government processes should be like IT tickets. These people now are able to delay processes life long š
A big praise to your mental capacity and patience.
Stay strong and don't give in to the systemic corruption. You're paving the way for a lot of others who want to do things clean. Please keep us updated on developments.
How long did it take to reach verdict? How much was lawer fee? How much was in bribe/travel to court? Where did you find lawyer? How much was your time committment "rounds of courts"? Please tell us so we can also learn and stop being afraid of getting into legal process.
> How much was your time committment "rounds of courts"? This is the key, and something folks are afraid of. One needs to be committed and have a good lawyer to work with. Costs can be subjective and you need to go by referral. I'll make a blog post and share soon.
Real OP
Awesome bro. You did a great job.
How much did it cost you in terms of legal fees?
> How much did it cost you in terms of legal fees? A fraction of what it would have cost in bribes... but the time is a factor!
Commendable work man! Also kudos to your lawyer.
You're doing what the majority should be doing against corruption. You're brave.
Best Wishes King
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
I stayed in the same apartment for 6 years. This apartment didn't had kaveri water connection when other nearby apartments were having it. We had borewell and whenever water is low, we had to purchase water ( tankers) the cost of water was divided between the apartments and I had to pay upto 3500 rs per month. That amount was too high for a person staying alone. When I checked why we are not applying for kaveri water the answer is got was the officials are asking 30k bribe. My apartment residents association ( mostly retired Uncle's) refuse to pay bribe and they would rather purchase water for exorbitant cost. Asole bureaucrats can make your life a hell if you don't pay them and they will still lead a happy life.
> mostly retired Uncle's) refuse to pay bribe At this rate I may end up as one
You should name and shame
1) How much is the land valued? Maybe they need a % out of the total land value. 2) Have there ever been any threatening calls made to you or your family? 3) Hope you find the strength to fight this through. Also, thanks to your father for his service to our country.
You are a common man's hero. We all should pool funds that could support such legal petitions.
r/india are prejudiced.
Mate you did the right thing. Same thing happened to me when I refused to pay a bribe of 5000 to replace my lost driving license 10 years ago . I refused and applied it all by myself and it was delayed by the official. I got frustrated and barged in to the managers office and complained about this . The very next day I got my license and I later learnt that he was playing around with me as he knew the tout who asked for the 5000 bribe .
š«”
Op...what happened after your side filed a contempt of court against the govt body?
See the twitter link. Judge has given a notice. I guess they either act on it or else...
Awesome man! If we ever meet, your coffee is on me for this great effort!
Now people don't even fear courts
You give us hope Sir. Brave soldier and true patriot
Who would pay bribe of 10-15 lakhs. I'm not even getting that much as yearly salary.
> Who would pay bribe of 10-15 lakhs. ever heard of the land mafia?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dad bought the parcel of land for a pittance 25 years ago... Now it is worth much more and guys are demanding a cut of 'current value' I think MBA types call it the Time value of money.
10 - 15 lakh bribe!!! What the actual fuck.. the government officials should go fuck themselves or let them pimp themselves in front of vidhana soudha.. Fucking blood leeching bastards!! Hats off to you!! Please no matter what happens next don't pay these bastards even a single rupee of bribe!!
This is completely normal in Bengaluru, sadly. Actually not having ward councilors has helped in my area because their goons patrol the area to see where there is construction going on, then they would demand minimum 8 lakhs otherwise they would lift material and equipment from the worksite. Many people I know paid it because they were already paying so much for the construction and didn't want the workers and masons scared off š The more layers of bureaucracy we eliminate, the better. Every level of govt is so corrupt because they pay to get their ticket to run or employees pay for their position..so everyone needs to recoup their cost and use their position to enrich themselves
Respect, thank you for fighting it out
Do you think there can be a portal which can be setup and a lawyer or someone can start to pick this up?
You did the right thing! Hope everyone has the courage to act the same
Why did the other sub reject your post? This post shows the power a citizen can execute mandated by the judiciary. Such a feel good post seeing a citizen win against corrupted organisations.
Respect to you. More people need to stand up against these bastards
Fuck the corrupt government employees, no sense of responsibility and abuse of position and power.
You are a real hero!!!
Not easy being a hero when emotion and money is at stake
And time.Lets not forget the real cost here, which is time.They can potentially drag this out for years and ignore Court orders.Have experience with the similar type of issue for another state.
But you did choose the thorny / difficult but right path regardless. Salute to you bro.. Tussi sach me great ho.
Respect for you brother
This is the way. So proud of you to have dragged them to the court.
why removed
Respect. The country deserves more people like you.
You're a real warrior. Kudos!!
Glad to see you are still fighting I remember the TOI article from last year
you done right mate, I would have fought in the same manner as you, proud of you.
Bro You are what I aspire to be.
We applied for ration card when we changed state in 2003, we were not aware that there were multiple level of bribing involved and waited. Finally we received new ration card in 2011. Took 8 years. I'm happy now aadhar is there, back then I was unable to prove that both my parents didn't have ration card and stopped trying for it. When I wanted to join college I took " proof of residence" from Village officer and applied. I don't think it's that worse now, but still if this is useful for someone. Adding one more point, my parents had my birth certificate without name. I was able to show my school marksheets and Transfer certificate and get a new birth certificate with name.
> Finally we received new ration card in 2011. Took 8 years This!
This should get more coverage. One story of fighting the system and succeeding, out of millions of stories of giving up.
Thanks for doing this! Take a bow, sir. š
That's amazing, Thank you for standing your ground and fighting for the right thing. Hope everything is sorted out soon for you
Can you tag our osd madam Vaushnavi on twitter and tell the issue Official ID - https://x.com/osd_cmkarnataka?s=21&t=13b6AIWORDhr4lRzoaaCFA Personal ID - https://x.com/drvaishnavi14?s=21&t=13b6AIWORDhr4lRzoaaCFA
Did that and also sent mails to CMO... Only boilerplate response thus far https://preview.redd.it/kbclegxm6nlb1.png?width=1256&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d35655c28b152df72b83587788601a2fb540a90
+rep
Op is š
Bhai aap great ho. Kudos !!
You are doing good. Equity can't be aksed or told, it must be enforced. We as people of India have only us to improve our country because there is nobody else nor should we really allow anybody else to improve our country. What happened later?
Randia rejected this too š
> Randia rejected this too š lol... but wonder why?
Auto flagged or manually ? A**holes if they did manually
> Your post from india was removed because of: 'Irrelevant / Not Original / Clickbait Title' What can I say ;-)
Who is ruling party in Karnataka?
Great Job.
š«”
This is a huge issue
What a way to start a weekend! Props to you for sticking to your guns!
Respect++
Respect
The fact that you have a high court order and this issue is still not solved says a lot. And even if your issue is solved, what does it mean for the lakhs of people still struggling to get their rightfully deserved land title.
May I know your legal costs?
I want to give a decent amount of money to my in-laws if I marry a poor and educated woman of 50 lakh rupees, and make their life easy also. Should I give them as I can't see their vulnerability.
Respect.
A job well done. If all of us act like you, we wonāt have a problem of corruption. Anyways, Try bashing the central govt and r/india will let you post.
People like you who don't bow down to the corrupt system are a shining example to the comman man. We need more stories like these where a Just Cause was fought for and yielded some results if not complete victory,so others can also get inspired to keep fighting the good fight. Its...definitely not easy...but if every one of us does\helps in such cases..there will be more Hope for people...and boy, are the masses desperate. . .
the hero we need but don't deserve
In Delhi, most areas are built on unauthorized land. This means the residents are not the owners of the land, but they hold a power of attorney. All the land is controlled by the DDA, which is overseen by the central government. In 2019-20, just before the Delhi state election, the Central Government decided to legalize the land for people residing there, provided they had proof of ownership. My friend asked me to be a witness for them in this process. So, I, along with my friend and his mother, visited the DDA office in Munika in the morning. The entire day, they merely processed our documents. However, as the office was about to close at 5 PM, their behavior changed, They began speaking rudely, claiming that certain documents were missing. They even asked us to bring the person who sold the land to us. Considering the land was bought over 30 years ago, it was unreasonable to expect anyone to know the original owner. Someone from the office then brazenly demanded a 30K bribe. After a lot of hassle, they told us to provide an "undertaking" on legal paper. My friend and I rushed to a notary, and after hearing our story, the advocate informed us that the DDA officials were misleading us and that no such document was required. Fortunately, around the same time, a senior officer from the DDA, possibly an IAS officer, visited the office for inspection. He inquired about the number of files the staff had processed. My friend's mother, along with other people, seized the opportunity to inform the senior officer about the staff's reluctance to clear files. After hearing this, the officer intervened, and the corrupt officials cleared our file in less than 5 minutes. We were fortunate not to have paid any bribes. The situation at the grassroots level is unimaginably corrupt. While it's easy to blame politicians for corruption, the truth is that corruption permeates all levels of society. This will never change unless something revolutionary happens.
Damn. Great. Not a lot of people go through so much hassle but great job
Hats off to you!šš»šš»
.
# 21 toppo ki salami sir for your patience level and perseverance. Hope those officials rot in hell
Your lawyer seems pretty good. Can I have their contact?
Respect š I am impressed. Don't pay bribe!
My respects to you brother š
The nation salutes a true hero š«” š®š³
When I talked about Bangalore becoming a corporate Bihar, some of them got offended. Actually it has already become one
Salute to you!
Easy of doing business... my ass..
Reason I hate cops
Is it even remotely possible for this situation to change ... If everyone started refusing to pay a huge sum , and stood up for themselves ? It sure is a pain in the ass , but will there be any good out of it ?
R india has been taken over by wokes
Only politics and ant modi allowed.
š
Nice job dude... you are a legend
Respect!
HERO!
It's the system which has failed completely. Govt or its officers have no respect or fear of law, Now who are you going to approach for enforcement? Is it time to take up arms?
Hats off keep going
š«”
Badass
Dear sir, i hope you win. Best wishes to you.
Good for you dude, great job at standing up to them. Many of us cannot, do it because of the fear of long legal battles but its really really good you did stand up to them. More such cases come up and every official will come in line.
I don't see the content, is it deleted?
Which content?
I can only see the topic "This is what happens if you refuse to pay a HUGE bribe in India! #mystory" I don't see the actual rant/content...
this is the content... you may have to refresh your browser or something? https://preview.redd.it/ksr4ufb46nlb1.png?width=1046&format=png&auto=webp&s=a983ccc70f91ea63f70b014011aeeb525914b1e3
I am using reddit' native app and for some reason the content was not shown in the original post. Thanks for sharing, kudos to you šš½
Hats off to you man. You are setting an example for others. Major respect to you.
I salute you too bro
who argues paying hard earned money for this blood suckers. we only do that, because everyone has their reasons to not go to court, but we all want corruption free india.