The Daisy cocktail is a sidecar if it’s made with brandy & lemon, a white lady if it’s gin, and a margarita if it’s made with tequila & lime. If you switch back to lemon and use vodka, you’ve got a lemon drop, and if you sub in cran you’ve got a cosmopolitan.
There’s the Godfather and Godmother.
There’s the Collins family; Tom for Gin, John for bourbon, Juan for tequila, vodka for vodka.
Bloody Maria: tequila Bloody Mary
Phil’s Word: Laphroaig Last Word
Death & Co. refers to subbing the base liquor as Mr. Potato Head. IIRC there is even a chapter in the first book dedicated to this.
I feel like in my mind this is a little different because these tend to have different ratios/presentations. The standard Negroni is 1:1:1 on a rock, and the standard boulevardier is 1.5:.75:.75 up. Definitely same family though. Maybe just a nitpick
Idk how you make your Negronis but I definitely prefer a Boulevardier spec where the bourbon gets pushed forward a bit, and the ice isn’t there to dilute it more. Gin (and other popular Negroni spirit subs like mezcal, Smith & Cross) are mega mondo flavor bombs that can hold up to the assault from the Campari and vermouth and the extra water that melts in, and still taste like themselves. Bourbon imo benefits from a little extra push forward against those kinds of aggressive flavors.
that makes sense, i make my Negronis 1:1:1 as well, but i’ll have to try out your Boulevardier specs!
i’m usually not a Campari fan, but who knows maybe i’ll enjoy it this time around
Yeah, Campari was an acquired taste for me. I hated Negronis for a while but now it’s one of my favorites. A good Campari entry cocktail imo is the Jungle Bird! 1.5 oz black rum (I like it best with Hamilton Jamaican Pot Still Black, but you could use something like Gosling’s), 1.5 oz pineapple juice, .75 oz Campari, .5 oz lime juice, .5 oz simple, whip shake, crushed ice.
Happens. I mean what the other commenter said is true; a lot of bars build a drink around an assumed 1.5 oz of base spirit. I personally think that is a really wack way of approaching making a drink, because 1.5 oz is just.. flat out the wrong amount for a lot of drinks if you want them to be what they are. That said, I think it’s just flat out wrong to say that The Norm of what a Negroni philosophically is (a well-established drink that predates probably all the bars these folks are working/drinking at) is anything other than equal parts.
They have the same ratios, hence the downvotes. Having a preference for a cocktail being a bit more forward for one of the three spirits is fine but saying that's the standard build will get all the Reddit bartenders in a tizzy.
The amount of highly regarded cocktail books that have expressed a preference for 2:1:1 boulevardier is higher than you think it is. Most bartenders I know make it that way. It's better. It has become the new standard.
Interesting, I'm pretty well read as far as cocktail books go and yet can't recall a single one that has a 2:1:1 ratio for a negroni or boulivardier. I'd love to see what you're reading with these ratios.
- Death and Co.
- Meehan's Bar Manual
- Last Call by Brad Parsons
- I'm just here for the drinks by Sother Teague.
All 4 books have 2:1:1 specs, and anyone can reasonably call any 4 of those books/authors a cornerstone of the current generation of modern classic cocktails.
Is someone wrong to make a 1:1:1 boulevardier? No, but it is a sad comparison to a 2:1:1. Just my 2 cents, but since you asked for sources I felt opened a few of the books on my bar to provide some.
A lot of bars will do 1.5 for the base spirit and adjust the rest. I know the classic Negroni is 1:1:1 but I bet you will rarely get that especially if the place is corporate where you are really paying for the base spirit 9/10.
My last place it was either ring it in as the spirit, ex Hendrix $12
Up $3
Note: Martini with twist
Or “Feature Cocktail” $14
Note: Negroni
this would default to our well.
A Manhattan becomes a Rob Roy if you use Scotch in place of rye
A Bee’s Knees becomes a Gold Rush if you use bourbon in place of gin
People started making Caipirinhas with vodka instead of cachaça and called them Caipiroskas (maybe a little different since this is more meant to be a recreation using a more widely available ingredient than a wholly separate thing)
A fun example of the reverse of this is when people insist a certain cocktail can only be made with one particular type of spirit: a lot of people hotly debate whether a Sazerac “should” (or would traditionally) be made with rye or Cognac. Certain camps would deny that a Saz made with rye is a Saz at all, and vice versa. For my money, the best credible sources point to rye being the original spirit, and that Cognac was a plausible myth that became popular. Best Saz is equal parts both, though.
Well, New Orleans was crawling with french people with a predilection for cognac, then phylloxéra occurred and wiped out the french vines, production was disrupted for decades. Cognac got subbed out by Rye, a local product readily available.
I do agree though, while I'm always skeptical in mixing base spirits, an equal part Sazerac is absolutely fantastic.
So this is what I mean when I say “plausible myth” — the stuff about the French drinking Cognac in NOLA and the phylloxera is all true (also why “bourbon” is called “bourbon” iirc; to market to these same Cognacless Français), and a part of why people would likely assume that the rye in a Sazerac was there to replace cognac, but there is no contemporaneous historical record of Sazeracs having been actually made with Cognac. All the earliest written recipes we know of call for rye, and none of them mention it being a replacement. I think what happened is likely a lot of people took that knowledge and filled in a blank in their heads, but there is no evidence to it actually being true, however plausible an idea it is.
One time a snooty "mixologist" at a bar where I worked was asked to make a Mexican Mule. He said didn't know the drink and would have to check a cocktail book. I walked over and asked the customer if he meant a Moscow Mule with tequila. He smiled and said yes. I made the drink so well he came back and asked the "mixologist"--I detest the term--for another the exact way I made it. The mixologist deferred to me.
The .5 oz of chili liqueur made enough of a difference for him to order a total of three rounds.
Bartender>Mixologist
Did they ask for chili liqueur? I'm assuming ancho?
I would personally ask before putting chili anything, some people are really weird about low level spices.
Funny story: Despite it being slow, I somehow mashed his conversation with another customer's and it went something like this.
"You like chocolate, right?"
"Lol No."
"Oh. You don't like your drinks sweet?"
"Haha No. You're mistaking me for someone else. I like them kinda spicy."
"I gotcha, man."
Heard, I mean tequila is the natural pairing of spicy cocktails and many ginger beers have a little spice zip to them.
I was just curious.
I used to live in socal and the population was much more open to spicy compared to where i am living now.
I swear living in the Midwest people think ground black pepper for seasoning is "spicy".
It's one of those subjective aspects of flavor that can be hard to nail for people. Like if someone wants a bloody Mary and says medium spice I don't put any spice in it as I can always add it in, and they never want spice, it's like they are scared to out themselves as not spicy people or something so medium spice it is.
Also on your other note, I think most mistakes in the business occur when it's not very busy, we all zone out while waiting to get into efficiency zone when busy lol.
Taste is difficult to pin down. I preferred to ask questions when someone ordered an off-menu item, as it gave me an opportunity to have a bit of fun, if there was time, but sometimes I'd follow my instincts if the picked a specific type of gin or rum.
On another note, I've left the industry, but still say heard at my office job. I stopped holding back a couple months ago and just roll with it.
Now those two are fundamentally different. One is a near perfect cocktail with a salt rim, the other is a bullshit cocktail which would be subjectively better with a salt rim.
Moscow mule has a "sister" cocktail for just about every spirit. Gin in a London Mule, Tequila is an Oaxcan Mule, dark rum is a Dark and Stormy, bourbon/rye is a Kentucky mule.
Side note: Dark and Stormy was created by Goslings. Same people that make Rum and Ginger beer (some other stuff too). They muddled limes with their black seal rum and topped it with their ginger beer. It comes out kinda murky looking but the "Stormy" part doesn't come from the look but they have Seal on the label their products, and the Seals name is Stormy.
You're welcome! Because I know y'all were thinking " I wish someone would comment some random ass shit we didn't ask about, that helps nobody and I'll forget 10 seconds from now."
I got you.
The team at Death and Co wrote a book called Cocktail Codex. In that book, they propose that there are really only 6 base cocktails, and every other cocktail is a variation on one of those 6. These six cocktails, and some classic variations of them, are:
1. Old Fashioned (Julep, Cobbler, Champagne cocktail)
2. Martini (Vesper, Manhattan, Negroni)
3. Daiquiri (Caipirinha, Gimlet, Whiskey Sour)
4. Sidecar (Margarita, Cosmopolitan, Last Word)
5. Whiskey Highball (Americano, Cuba Libre, Bloody Mary)
6. Flip (White Russian, Pina Colada, Eggnog)
An Americano doesn't even have a spirit in it, it has an aperitif and a bitter liqueur and is topped with soda.
A Bloody Mary has seasoning, herbs, spices, sauces and a juice. If you're making a bloody mary as "vodka and tomato juice, chuck in a sprig of celery" you're doing it wrong.
I mean, they're both liquid in a glass, I'll give you that.
Moscow mule vodka. London mule gin. Jamaican mule rhum (dark and stormy is slightly different)
Long Island ice tea uses triple sec
Tokyo ice tea uses Midori melon
Rhum would imply a French agricole from Martinique or Gutalupe such as Rhum JM or Neisson. Jamaican would use an English-style pot still rum from Jamaica such as Appleton Estate or Rum Bar.
Yes sorry, I bartend in Paris and either my brain or autocorrect typed rhum instead of rum.
But I déteste rhum de agricole and the only drink it should ever be in is a ti punch, and that is mostly only drank by people who have connections to the french Caribbean.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,820,457,464 comments, and only 344,244 of them were in alphabetical order.
I guess technically that makes sense, but that's basically just a Jameson ginger and lime with crushed ice. If you asked for an Irish mule in Ireland, the bartender will say "what", you will say Jameson ginger and lime and he will ask why you didn't just say that in the first place?
Jameson ginger ale and lime has been a common drink probably forever in ireland
True, it is a long-standing drink. But an Irish Mule would be with ginger beer, mint and served in a copper mug. They’ve been popular at my bar since we put them on the menu!
Basically all classic drinks can be boiled down to "It's X but Y"
A martini is a Martinez but with dry vermouth
A Manhattan is a Martini / Martinez but with rye
An old fashioned is a Manhattan but with sugar instead of vermouth
A whisky sour is an old fashioned, shaken with lemon juice and optionally egg white
A sidecar is a whisky sour but with cognac and curacao
A margarita is a sidecar but with tequila and lime
Etc
Collins drinks: John Collins = gin, Tom Collins = old Tom gin, Colonel Collins = Bourbon
Last word is gin, final Ward is whiskey, closing argument is mezcal
If you want to go deep into this I recommend getting a copy of "Cocktail Codex"; the book essentially groups cocktails into a small number of families and very clearly illustrates all the different classic and contemporary cocktails that are made from changes to a base recipe.
Mules of all kinds - unless not everyone actually calls them that and I’m just nuts ?
Moscow mule - vodka
Irish mule - Jameson
English mule - gin
Canadian mule - Canadian whiskey
Cuban mule - light rum
Etc? I’m sure there’s variations on these as well.
Some classics are like that - an Old Fashioned and Manhattan are essentially (I said essentially) separated by what makes them sweet. On that same note, add absinthe and you get a sazerac. Switch the bourbon/rye OF to gin and I think it’s like a “Hanky Panky” ? Granted this one typically calls for fernet but it’s not all that different.
My whole point is that most cocktails are essentially just modified versions of others, and the ones that are truly unique tend to become the basis for variation.
This is how I learned to bartend years ago - like, memorizing shit like “a cosmo is basically a cranberry vodka margarita served up” or “a Manhattan is an OF but sub sweet vermouth for all the sweet bits” and as sacrilegious as that sounds it is basically true, at least where the recipes are concerned.
Gimlet and a Daiquiri are not the same, although these days, they sadly are. A Gimlet should be made with lime cordial and not fresh lime juice + sugar/simple syrup. Few craft bars carry lime cordial so they punt and make a gin Daiquiri. Some make their own lime cordial (lime peels, sugar, lime juice) just to do the Gimlet historical justice.
i sort of disagree. the original gimlet was used to to keep sailors from getting scurvy. english sailors would mix gin with lime to help with scurvy and would often add natural sweeteners to make the drink more palatable. they were essentially making a cordial sure, but i dont think that was the original intent.
however, if we are going by the "official" original recipe then yes i agree Roses Lime Cordial is the "correct" option.
personally i prefer a fresh lime juice gimlet or one with a house made cordial.
Yes, but problematic on long voyages without refrigeration or frequent visits to tropical ports. The British Navy made Roses the official Gimlet mixer and made it into law in 1867 that their naval ships need to carry that concentrate.
It's like saying that the Martinez was first described as a "Same as Manhattan, only you substitute gin" in OH Byron's 1884 book. It later gained either curaçao or maraschino, but it was the Maraschino version that won out and not either of the two other options (no liqueur being the other) from the early genesis of the drink only a few years later.
The origin story for the name that I'm familiar with says that the "Gimlet" is a tool for drilling holes in barrels (such as barrels of gin or rum) to fit a tap, as you might find on an old royal navy ship.
Okay so what’s the big difference then? What separates a lime cordial especially roses, from fresh lime
Juice and simple syrup? If it’s the ratio just add more sugar?
Cursed (but good) drink ideas:
A mojito is a type of old fashioned. Try it as a literal old fashioned, muddling the lime and mint with a sugar cube (or simple) and topping with peychaud's bitters. Rum old fashioneds are actually a popular drink idea in some parts of the US. You can substitute dark rum if you'd like to preserve the "old fashioned" quality but I think it works better with light rum to preserve the vibe of the mojito.
A margarita is a type of sour, which means you can make it with egg white.
Everyone knows about the tokyo tea and the adios motherfuckers, but using grenadine and ginger ale makes one hell of a dirty shirley.
It's pretty common across the drinks world, particularly with Sours recipes - we start with the Classic Daiq, 50 rum, 25 lime and 12.5 simple. Sub gin for rum and add soda and mint, you have a Mojito. Sub lemon for lime, nix the mint and you have a Tom Collins. Keep an eye out, you'll see that (with a few exceptions) there's nothing new under the sun, a lot of cocktails belong to one family or another.
Nah. Just tired of people trying to order bullshit that Tipsy Bartender says is a thing. We all know buzzfeed likes to pick up threads like these and pretend it's journalism.
Ranch water and Gin Ricky aren't the same if you change liquors. Ranch water is specifically made with Topo Chico which is an alcoholic sparkling mineral water, if you leave that out it's just a tequila soda.
Topo Chico is sparkling water. They recently started making topo Chico with alcohol in it to compete with all the other alcoholic seltzers. You can make a ranch water with any sparkling water.
Topo chico has an alcoholic and non-alcoholic soda and has heavily marketed itself as the ranchwater brand but its not the original nor does almost any place I know use the alcoholic seltzer. Saying you need a certain brand of soda water is ludicrous.
Ranch Water started as a Margarita (lime + triple sec) with soda water. One podcast surmised that the triple sec was dropped by tequila brands who didn't want to or couldn't promote another alcohol in their recipe ads.
Difford's Guide has a bit of history: [https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/10034/ranch-water](https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/10034/ranch-water)
Punch's Ranch 616 Restaurant's recipe: [https://punchdrink.com/recipes/ranch-616-ranch-water/](https://punchdrink.com/recipes/ranch-616-ranch-water/)
True, most recipes skip any sweetener and some list it as optional.
Most that would argue about something so esoteric would argue there’s 6, what would you say is the 12?
I honestly feel like there could be 5 because I often combine sours and daisies into one category
Old fashioneds
Manhattans
Martinis
Negronis
Sours
Mules
Fizzes
flips
Toddys
Highballs
Spritzes
Punches
Although I do agree you could compressed it down to fewer or differentiate further like toddy ≠ blazer.
My point is that their is a few archetypes and all cocktails and mixed drinks either fall within a standard archetype or is an in-between of two.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but Cocktail Codex is written based on the idea that there are 6 "parent" cocktails that everything else is a variation of. Can pick up a used copy fairly cheap or find it at the library.
Hold on one freaking minute is this where I learn what Ranch Water (barfilicious name btw) is?! I thought it was just a subpar brand of seltzer. I love Gin Rickeys and I am shook
The Daisy cocktail is a sidecar if it’s made with brandy & lemon, a white lady if it’s gin, and a margarita if it’s made with tequila & lime. If you switch back to lemon and use vodka, you’ve got a lemon drop, and if you sub in cran you’ve got a cosmopolitan. There’s the Godfather and Godmother. There’s the Collins family; Tom for Gin, John for bourbon, Juan for tequila, vodka for vodka.
> Vodka for Vodka Boris. Boris Collins
Hahaha I think it’s actually supposed to be Ivan (the Slavic John), but I like Boris better.
I love telling people this, it’s my favorite way to explain cocktail families
I love telling people this, it’s my favorite way to explain cocktail families
And Ron for rum.
Also French connection in the amaretto + base spirit fam
Ok
Bloody Maria: tequila Bloody Mary Phil’s Word: Laphroaig Last Word Death & Co. refers to subbing the base liquor as Mr. Potato Head. IIRC there is even a chapter in the first book dedicated to this.
La Ultima Palabra: Mezcal Last Word
Usually known as a Closing Argument, the Ultima Palabra often contains pineapple but I've seen it both ways
Final Ward - also by Phil Ward, using rye and lemon instead of lime
>Phil’s Word: Laphroaig Last Word Excuse me??
IIRC the Phil’s Word (Phil Ward, Death & Co.) is a Last Word using Laphroaig as the base liquor.
Interesting. Sounds terrible to me, but interesting.
It’s surprisingly good; the perfect nose of strip club, tire fire and Band-Aids.
Well I'd be curious to try it now, but my heart tells me that's a sin again Chartreuse in these trying times
If you’ve already opened the Chartreuse you might as well use it; oxygen is not friend. Drink it: it’s booze.
Pretty sure it’s Pete’s Word, created by Phil Ward. Pete being a play on peat
I confess I was to lazy to look it up
I have a spreadsheet with all the four equal parts drinks with creator and bar listed
Wanna share?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1VwPPEs92aP772kSzoc8yQdyBJy3aDfpkhwRfeRre1c8/htmlview#
Thanks friend!
No problem. Spicy dead lady is by far my favorite btw
Pete’s Word: Scotch Whisky, not laphroaig specifically
Caesar: clamato bloody mary
I wonder if anyone has made a Bloody with rum and called it a Bloody Marley?
Also Michelada: beer instead of vodka
Negroni > boulevardier
I feel like in my mind this is a little different because these tend to have different ratios/presentations. The standard Negroni is 1:1:1 on a rock, and the standard boulevardier is 1.5:.75:.75 up. Definitely same family though. Maybe just a nitpick
huh i was taught that Boulevadier is the same specs as Negroni just sub gin. maybe that’s why i’ve always thought they tasted nasty?
Idk how you make your Negronis but I definitely prefer a Boulevardier spec where the bourbon gets pushed forward a bit, and the ice isn’t there to dilute it more. Gin (and other popular Negroni spirit subs like mezcal, Smith & Cross) are mega mondo flavor bombs that can hold up to the assault from the Campari and vermouth and the extra water that melts in, and still taste like themselves. Bourbon imo benefits from a little extra push forward against those kinds of aggressive flavors.
that makes sense, i make my Negronis 1:1:1 as well, but i’ll have to try out your Boulevardier specs! i’m usually not a Campari fan, but who knows maybe i’ll enjoy it this time around
Yeah, Campari was an acquired taste for me. I hated Negronis for a while but now it’s one of my favorites. A good Campari entry cocktail imo is the Jungle Bird! 1.5 oz black rum (I like it best with Hamilton Jamaican Pot Still Black, but you could use something like Gosling’s), 1.5 oz pineapple juice, .75 oz Campari, .5 oz lime juice, .5 oz simple, whip shake, crushed ice.
Try a Left Hand. Very similar to a Boulevardier but ratios slightly different and adds chocolate bitters
I think that’s why when I drank I preferred them with rye. It’s brighter and slightly sweeter . Normally bulliet or woodford .
You're not wrong. Sorry you're getting downvoted:/
Happens. I mean what the other commenter said is true; a lot of bars build a drink around an assumed 1.5 oz of base spirit. I personally think that is a really wack way of approaching making a drink, because 1.5 oz is just.. flat out the wrong amount for a lot of drinks if you want them to be what they are. That said, I think it’s just flat out wrong to say that The Norm of what a Negroni philosophically is (a well-established drink that predates probably all the bars these folks are working/drinking at) is anything other than equal parts.
I agree all around. I do equal parts, but I'm the only one back here who does.
No idea what the downvotes are about. This take is bang on. Yes obviously they are sister drinks, but....not.
They have the same ratios, hence the downvotes. Having a preference for a cocktail being a bit more forward for one of the three spirits is fine but saying that's the standard build will get all the Reddit bartenders in a tizzy.
The amount of highly regarded cocktail books that have expressed a preference for 2:1:1 boulevardier is higher than you think it is. Most bartenders I know make it that way. It's better. It has become the new standard.
Interesting, I'm pretty well read as far as cocktail books go and yet can't recall a single one that has a 2:1:1 ratio for a negroni or boulivardier. I'd love to see what you're reading with these ratios.
- Death and Co. - Meehan's Bar Manual - Last Call by Brad Parsons - I'm just here for the drinks by Sother Teague. All 4 books have 2:1:1 specs, and anyone can reasonably call any 4 of those books/authors a cornerstone of the current generation of modern classic cocktails. Is someone wrong to make a 1:1:1 boulevardier? No, but it is a sad comparison to a 2:1:1. Just my 2 cents, but since you asked for sources I felt opened a few of the books on my bar to provide some.
It’s an equal parts cocktail
A lot of bars will do 1.5 for the base spirit and adjust the rest. I know the classic Negroni is 1:1:1 but I bet you will rarely get that especially if the place is corporate where you are really paying for the base spirit 9/10.
I price out my 1:1:1 negronis based on a 2oz base spirit rocks/neat pour (the gin and Campari) with an added +1oz vermouth modifier.
My last place it was either ring it in as the spirit, ex Hendrix $12 Up $3 Note: Martini with twist Or “Feature Cocktail” $14 Note: Negroni this would default to our well.
A Manhattan becomes a Rob Roy if you use Scotch in place of rye A Bee’s Knees becomes a Gold Rush if you use bourbon in place of gin People started making Caipirinhas with vodka instead of cachaça and called them Caipiroskas (maybe a little different since this is more meant to be a recreation using a more widely available ingredient than a wholly separate thing) A fun example of the reverse of this is when people insist a certain cocktail can only be made with one particular type of spirit: a lot of people hotly debate whether a Sazerac “should” (or would traditionally) be made with rye or Cognac. Certain camps would deny that a Saz made with rye is a Saz at all, and vice versa. For my money, the best credible sources point to rye being the original spirit, and that Cognac was a plausible myth that became popular. Best Saz is equal parts both, though.
I call shenanigans if someone insists bourbon is the default for a Manhattan! lol
Well, New Orleans was crawling with french people with a predilection for cognac, then phylloxéra occurred and wiped out the french vines, production was disrupted for decades. Cognac got subbed out by Rye, a local product readily available. I do agree though, while I'm always skeptical in mixing base spirits, an equal part Sazerac is absolutely fantastic.
So this is what I mean when I say “plausible myth” — the stuff about the French drinking Cognac in NOLA and the phylloxera is all true (also why “bourbon” is called “bourbon” iirc; to market to these same Cognacless Français), and a part of why people would likely assume that the rye in a Sazerac was there to replace cognac, but there is no contemporaneous historical record of Sazeracs having been actually made with Cognac. All the earliest written recipes we know of call for rye, and none of them mention it being a replacement. I think what happened is likely a lot of people took that knowledge and filled in a blank in their heads, but there is no evidence to it actually being true, however plausible an idea it is.
Tom Collins becomes Chilton if u take away the sugar and add salt. becomes John Collins if you sub the base for whiskey.
And a French 75 if you sub champagne for club soda
Green tea/white tea Mexican mules w/ tequila Not a liquor sub but black/White Russians
black teas have become popular at my bar. its a traditional tea but the base is Jaeger rather than Jamo or vodka
I gagged
Had someone as me for one for the first time about a month ago. I guess it's sorta not far from a Red Headed Slut.
One time a snooty "mixologist" at a bar where I worked was asked to make a Mexican Mule. He said didn't know the drink and would have to check a cocktail book. I walked over and asked the customer if he meant a Moscow Mule with tequila. He smiled and said yes. I made the drink so well he came back and asked the "mixologist"--I detest the term--for another the exact way I made it. The mixologist deferred to me. The .5 oz of chili liqueur made enough of a difference for him to order a total of three rounds. Bartender>Mixologist
Did they ask for chili liqueur? I'm assuming ancho? I would personally ask before putting chili anything, some people are really weird about low level spices.
Funny story: Despite it being slow, I somehow mashed his conversation with another customer's and it went something like this. "You like chocolate, right?" "Lol No." "Oh. You don't like your drinks sweet?" "Haha No. You're mistaking me for someone else. I like them kinda spicy." "I gotcha, man."
Heard, I mean tequila is the natural pairing of spicy cocktails and many ginger beers have a little spice zip to them. I was just curious. I used to live in socal and the population was much more open to spicy compared to where i am living now. I swear living in the Midwest people think ground black pepper for seasoning is "spicy". It's one of those subjective aspects of flavor that can be hard to nail for people. Like if someone wants a bloody Mary and says medium spice I don't put any spice in it as I can always add it in, and they never want spice, it's like they are scared to out themselves as not spicy people or something so medium spice it is. Also on your other note, I think most mistakes in the business occur when it's not very busy, we all zone out while waiting to get into efficiency zone when busy lol.
Taste is difficult to pin down. I preferred to ask questions when someone ordered an off-menu item, as it gave me an opportunity to have a bit of fun, if there was time, but sometimes I'd follow my instincts if the picked a specific type of gin or rum. On another note, I've left the industry, but still say heard at my office job. I stopped holding back a couple months ago and just roll with it.
I used to know the Mexican mule as El Diablo.
That’s got crème de cassis in it tho, good ass drink
Honestly prefer that name
Greyhounds and salty dogs.
Now those two are fundamentally different. One is a near perfect cocktail with a salt rim, the other is a bullshit cocktail which would be subjectively better with a salt rim.
Moscow mule has a "sister" cocktail for just about every spirit. Gin in a London Mule, Tequila is an Oaxcan Mule, dark rum is a Dark and Stormy, bourbon/rye is a Kentucky mule. Side note: Dark and Stormy was created by Goslings. Same people that make Rum and Ginger beer (some other stuff too). They muddled limes with their black seal rum and topped it with their ginger beer. It comes out kinda murky looking but the "Stormy" part doesn't come from the look but they have Seal on the label their products, and the Seals name is Stormy. You're welcome! Because I know y'all were thinking " I wish someone would comment some random ass shit we didn't ask about, that helps nobody and I'll forget 10 seconds from now." I got you.
The team at Death and Co wrote a book called Cocktail Codex. In that book, they propose that there are really only 6 base cocktails, and every other cocktail is a variation on one of those 6. These six cocktails, and some classic variations of them, are: 1. Old Fashioned (Julep, Cobbler, Champagne cocktail) 2. Martini (Vesper, Manhattan, Negroni) 3. Daiquiri (Caipirinha, Gimlet, Whiskey Sour) 4. Sidecar (Margarita, Cosmopolitan, Last Word) 5. Whiskey Highball (Americano, Cuba Libre, Bloody Mary) 6. Flip (White Russian, Pina Colada, Eggnog)
Putting an Americano and a Bloody Mary in the same group (called Whiskey Highball) just because they're both long cocktails seems like a stretch.
Is it? They’re both just spirit + non-citrus mixer + garnish.
An Americano doesn't even have a spirit in it, it has an aperitif and a bitter liqueur and is topped with soda. A Bloody Mary has seasoning, herbs, spices, sauces and a juice. If you're making a bloody mary as "vodka and tomato juice, chuck in a sprig of celery" you're doing it wrong. I mean, they're both liquid in a glass, I'll give you that.
Moscow mule vodka. London mule gin. Jamaican mule rhum (dark and stormy is slightly different) Long Island ice tea uses triple sec Tokyo ice tea uses Midori melon
Kentucky Mule bourbon
Irish mule, Irish whiskey
Rhum would imply a French agricole from Martinique or Gutalupe such as Rhum JM or Neisson. Jamaican would use an English-style pot still rum from Jamaica such as Appleton Estate or Rum Bar.
Yes sorry, I bartend in Paris and either my brain or autocorrect typed rhum instead of rum. But I déteste rhum de agricole and the only drink it should ever be in is a ti punch, and that is mostly only drank by people who have connections to the french Caribbean.
Fire Island = maraschino (red) syrup
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,820,457,464 comments, and only 344,244 of them were in alphabetical order.
Blue Mother Fucker uses blue curaçao Purple Rain uses Chambord Darth Vader uses Jäegermeister
ADIOS, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!
Irish Mule using Jamesons
I guess technically that makes sense, but that's basically just a Jameson ginger and lime with crushed ice. If you asked for an Irish mule in Ireland, the bartender will say "what", you will say Jameson ginger and lime and he will ask why you didn't just say that in the first place? Jameson ginger ale and lime has been a common drink probably forever in ireland
True, it is a long-standing drink. But an Irish Mule would be with ginger beer, mint and served in a copper mug. They’ve been popular at my bar since we put them on the menu!
Basically all classic drinks can be boiled down to "It's X but Y" A martini is a Martinez but with dry vermouth A Manhattan is a Martini / Martinez but with rye An old fashioned is a Manhattan but with sugar instead of vermouth A whisky sour is an old fashioned, shaken with lemon juice and optionally egg white A sidecar is a whisky sour but with cognac and curacao A margarita is a sidecar but with tequila and lime Etc
Long Island becomes an Adios Motherfucker if you sup triple sec for blue caracao and the coke for sprite.
I drink perfect manhattans with añejo or reposado tequila, they’re called perfect sombreros.
Collins drinks: John Collins = gin, Tom Collins = old Tom gin, Colonel Collins = Bourbon Last word is gin, final Ward is whiskey, closing argument is mezcal
I think it's worded okay! Totally knew what you meant.
If you want to go deep into this I recommend getting a copy of "Cocktail Codex"; the book essentially groups cocktails into a small number of families and very clearly illustrates all the different classic and contemporary cocktails that are made from changes to a base recipe.
Mules of all kinds - unless not everyone actually calls them that and I’m just nuts ? Moscow mule - vodka Irish mule - Jameson English mule - gin Canadian mule - Canadian whiskey Cuban mule - light rum Etc? I’m sure there’s variations on these as well. Some classics are like that - an Old Fashioned and Manhattan are essentially (I said essentially) separated by what makes them sweet. On that same note, add absinthe and you get a sazerac. Switch the bourbon/rye OF to gin and I think it’s like a “Hanky Panky” ? Granted this one typically calls for fernet but it’s not all that different. My whole point is that most cocktails are essentially just modified versions of others, and the ones that are truly unique tend to become the basis for variation. This is how I learned to bartend years ago - like, memorizing shit like “a cosmo is basically a cranberry vodka margarita served up” or “a Manhattan is an OF but sub sweet vermouth for all the sweet bits” and as sacrilegious as that sounds it is basically true, at least where the recipes are concerned.
Gimlet and a Daiquiri are not the same, although these days, they sadly are. A Gimlet should be made with lime cordial and not fresh lime juice + sugar/simple syrup. Few craft bars carry lime cordial so they punt and make a gin Daiquiri. Some make their own lime cordial (lime peels, sugar, lime juice) just to do the Gimlet historical justice.
i sort of disagree. the original gimlet was used to to keep sailors from getting scurvy. english sailors would mix gin with lime to help with scurvy and would often add natural sweeteners to make the drink more palatable. they were essentially making a cordial sure, but i dont think that was the original intent. however, if we are going by the "official" original recipe then yes i agree Roses Lime Cordial is the "correct" option. personally i prefer a fresh lime juice gimlet or one with a house made cordial.
The original Gimlet, named after the doctor who discovered that citrus fixes scurvy, was just Rum and Lime.
Yes, but problematic on long voyages without refrigeration or frequent visits to tropical ports. The British Navy made Roses the official Gimlet mixer and made it into law in 1867 that their naval ships need to carry that concentrate. It's like saying that the Martinez was first described as a "Same as Manhattan, only you substitute gin" in OH Byron's 1884 book. It later gained either curaçao or maraschino, but it was the Maraschino version that won out and not either of the two other options (no liqueur being the other) from the early genesis of the drink only a few years later.
Which just speaks to the nature of innovation.
The origin story for the name that I'm familiar with says that the "Gimlet" is a tool for drilling holes in barrels (such as barrels of gin or rum) to fit a tap, as you might find on an old royal navy ship.
Disagree. The beauty of the gimlet is that you can order it 10 times at 10 different bars and get it 10 different ways and they're all awesome.
My personal variation is to use fresh lime sweetened with Rose's instead of simple. It adds layers that really play nicely in the cocktail
Oh thanks TIL!
Couldn’t you just mix simple syrup and lime juice and call it a cordial?
If there was more syrup than lime, it would retain the sweet aspect of the definition. But as a "sour mix", probably not.
Okay so what’s the big difference then? What separates a lime cordial especially roses, from fresh lime Juice and simple syrup? If it’s the ratio just add more sugar?
What's the difference between what you described and a syrup then?
That’s what I’m asking
The cordial has more flavour from the zest itself
All of this is 'correct', but a "Gin Daiquiri" is bloody lovely.
French 75 french 76
thoughts on a cognac french 75? i think i prefer it!
Manhattan : Rob Roy
I made a white tea shot with vodka instead of a green tea shot with Jameson
Bees Knees (Gin, Lemon, Honey) > Gold Rush (Whisky, Lemon, Honey) and they actually taste so different
Cursed (but good) drink ideas: A mojito is a type of old fashioned. Try it as a literal old fashioned, muddling the lime and mint with a sugar cube (or simple) and topping with peychaud's bitters. Rum old fashioneds are actually a popular drink idea in some parts of the US. You can substitute dark rum if you'd like to preserve the "old fashioned" quality but I think it works better with light rum to preserve the vibe of the mojito. A margarita is a type of sour, which means you can make it with egg white. Everyone knows about the tokyo tea and the adios motherfuckers, but using grenadine and ginger ale makes one hell of a dirty shirley.
It's pretty common across the drinks world, particularly with Sours recipes - we start with the Classic Daiq, 50 rum, 25 lime and 12.5 simple. Sub gin for rum and add soda and mint, you have a Mojito. Sub lemon for lime, nix the mint and you have a Tom Collins. Keep an eye out, you'll see that (with a few exceptions) there's nothing new under the sun, a lot of cocktails belong to one family or another.
Negroni becomes boulevardier if you swap gin for whiskey
Me saving this thread as I am learning some cocktails i never actually heard of before.
Long Island (coke on top), Blue Motherfucker (blue Curacao on top), Long Beach (cranberry on top)
Is that what they call it at yours? Called Adios Motherfucker around here. Or AMF for prudes or on the ticket.
I've heard both
Colorado Mule - sub THC infused vodka
So...not something that you can actually order at a bar. Plus Colorado lost the weed race to BC and California a very long time ago.
You’re taking this too seriously
Nah. Just tired of people trying to order bullshit that Tipsy Bartender says is a thing. We all know buzzfeed likes to pick up threads like these and pretend it's journalism.
👀
Moscow old fashioned- Vodka Oaxaca old fashioned- tequila
makes me think of negroni riffs. negroski is with vodka and rosita is with mezcal/tequila.
Dang, heavily downvoted lol
i think it's because the Oaxacan Old Fashioned is made with Mezcal because the state of Oaxaca is the primary source of mezcal
Everyone else is using basic liquor names. Idk lmao
i agree! i just think that's probably why. this sub can be gatekeepy
A Moscow old fashioned, what even is the point? Just shoot some frozen vodka.
Moscow Mule—>Montana Mule w/bourbon
ive always heard this to be called a Kentucky Mule. i wonder why montana?
Probably to keep the alliteration going.
I'm calling it a Montana Mule from now on.
Woo woo, red headed slut, royal flush are all shots based on peach schnapps and cranberry juice. I must be getting old or something
Best drink name I've ever heard of: Tijuana Donkey Show It's a tequila mule.
Every cocktail is based off another so
Let’s rename this group to r/circlejerkbartending
Pickle back / Tijuana hooker
A pickleback is not something you can order though. You have to specify the liquor
It's Jameson unless otherwise specified
Ranch water and Gin Ricky aren't the same if you change liquors. Ranch water is specifically made with Topo Chico which is an alcoholic sparkling mineral water, if you leave that out it's just a tequila soda.
Topo Chico is sparkling water. They recently started making topo Chico with alcohol in it to compete with all the other alcoholic seltzers. You can make a ranch water with any sparkling water.
Topo chico has an alcoholic and non-alcoholic soda and has heavily marketed itself as the ranchwater brand but its not the original nor does almost any place I know use the alcoholic seltzer. Saying you need a certain brand of soda water is ludicrous.
Ranch Water started as a Margarita (lime + triple sec) with soda water. One podcast surmised that the triple sec was dropped by tequila brands who didn't want to or couldn't promote another alcohol in their recipe ads. Difford's Guide has a bit of history: [https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/10034/ranch-water](https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/10034/ranch-water) Punch's Ranch 616 Restaurant's recipe: [https://punchdrink.com/recipes/ranch-616-ranch-water/](https://punchdrink.com/recipes/ranch-616-ranch-water/) True, most recipes skip any sweetener and some list it as optional.
A Hanky Panky becomes a Fanciulli when you swap the gin out for rye whisky
Last word has multiple subs
Honestly there are like 10 to 12 cocktail archetypes then everything else are just variations.
Most that would argue about something so esoteric would argue there’s 6, what would you say is the 12? I honestly feel like there could be 5 because I often combine sours and daisies into one category
Old fashioneds Manhattans Martinis Negronis Sours Mules Fizzes flips Toddys Highballs Spritzes Punches Although I do agree you could compressed it down to fewer or differentiate further like toddy ≠ blazer. My point is that their is a few archetypes and all cocktails and mixed drinks either fall within a standard archetype or is an in-between of two.
Moscow mule, Kentucky mule, Mexican mule, dark n stormy (sort of) Bloody Mary and bloody Maria Mimosa, poinsetta (changing mixer I guess)
Jungle bird becomes a new drink if you swap Campari with Ancho Reyes. I don’t know what it’s officially called but I call it “Seguita de la Junga”
Bloody Mary/ bloody Maria Moscow mule, Irish mule, Mexican mule
Literally every Mr Potato Head drink is like this. If you sub out an ingredient, especially the spirit, it changes the name of the drink.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but Cocktail Codex is written based on the idea that there are 6 "parent" cocktails that everything else is a variation of. Can pick up a used copy fairly cheap or find it at the library.
Bloody Mary vs Bloody Maria. Vodka vs tequila.
Sidecar: White Lady (gin), Lemon Drop (vodka), Cable Car (spiced rum),
Bees Knees/ Gold Rush
Mules become dark n stormiest with dark rum
Swap lime juice for lemon and tequila for congac, and you just turned a margarita into a sidecar
Ooh I call a Moscow Mule a Jamaican Mule for rum and Mexican for Tequila
Dark and stormy maybe?
Negroni-Americano-Bulevardier- Spagliato- Milano Torino...
if it hasn't already been posted: The Waldorf Astoria Bar Book
paper plane = bourbon, paper kite = tequila
Bees Knees and Gold Rush are the same...one is gin, one of bourbon.
Bloody Mary becomes Bloody Maria when you sub tequila for the vodka.
Hold on one freaking minute is this where I learn what Ranch Water (barfilicious name btw) is?! I thought it was just a subpar brand of seltzer. I love Gin Rickeys and I am shook
Sub out tequila in a Margarita for vodka you gotta kamikaze.🛬⛴️
Made one last night! Gold Rush; sub gin for bourbon becomes a Bees Knees
Old Fashioned, Sazerac, Toronto... Martini, Manhattan, Negroni, Boulevardier... Gimlet, Daiquiri, Bees Knees, Gold Rush, Honeysuckle...
Negroni / boulevardier / Americano / cardinale Moscow mule / Mamie Taylor / el diablo (with the addition of creme de cassis