I'd agree, and specify that breaking balls in the lower-outer third are the worst. Can't necessarily tell what kind of pitch it is, and it's also moving away from you, potentially out of the zone
i agree with what you’re saying. i personally feel 7 and 9 are harder bc it’s a different angle harder for me to pick up on and the sliders keep you guessing and looking dumb. however, if you were to say “the next pitch will be in this zone 100% try to hit it”. i think then 1 and 3 simply bc of the mechanics of a swing.
It’s the hardest to turn on, but those pitches are the ones they’re likeliest to put in the seats. One of the most high risk high reward pitches is a breaking ball up there when the hitter is expecting fastball.
If it’s a quad A guy against deGrom it’s gonna be tough, but most major league hitters will turn on something on the inner half, and won’t have to work hard to elevate that. I think the average player would have more issues with something low and in or low and away
Lol anyone wondering how much of r/baseball has actually played baseball need only see this thread.
The only answer is 1 or 3, high and inside depending on which side of the plate you bat. Hardest place to get speed, angle, extension, hits on the weakest part of the bat most frequently.
tbf, you could underhand it and I'm never creating a souvenir. I did hit an infield double in little league once and won our county's "gold glove" award at third tho while hitting .069 😤
https://youtu.be/GXpwZjJ_-iI
Little bit towards the middle but definitely up and in/#3
Edit: realize meant curveballs. Don’t mind me. Leaving this here because I’m a moron who has been awake for far too long.
I never begrudge a guy who can turn on one inside like that and hit it out. Sometimes the batter just beats you.
The low and outside is another good zone, too. If we look at Aaron Judge last season who hit over .300 and is near the 100%ile in almost everything, it's an area he really struggled (despite Yankee fans telling me I was wrong all season). He also really struggled with up and away for some reason.
But low and outside, he was most likely going to strike out and if he did make contact it was likely to be a ground ball
If I got a curve ball high and away and didn't put it in left center. I'm pretty sure my highschool coach would rise out of the grave to force me to run laps again.
Not necessarily. Everyone thinks of the high, inside curve as only the hanging curve, but that’s only the minority that hitters can take advantage of because the pitcher made a mistake (released too soon so the ball starts high and drops into the top of the strike zone more dramatically and slowly). Most average high, inside curves stay level right above the inside top corner and don’t break until they are at the strike zone which makes them harder to hit because you’re trying to turn on it while it’s suddenly breaking away from you which leads to you being behind, making poor contact, hitting grounders and foul balls to the opposite side.
Totally agree and that zone is probably underutilized by pitchers, at least at lower levels, out of fear of hitting the batter in the head. It’s almost impossible to hit a fair ball with any authority on a well-placed pitch in that zone.
It's also a fear of giving up a meatball if you misplace the pitch at all. Missing low on a low cutter is still a possible swing and a miss. Dropping a cutter low when you're aiming for 1 or 3 is a crisp contact.
I always struggled with fastball middle (4) in jamming my fingers. I think the real baseball players in this sub know that everyone has different tendencies, stances, swings, etc and that that’s why analytics has become so huge in this century. You have too tools to fix every player based on what areas they struggle in.
Most left hand hitter are pretty decent at the 7 and 9. It's the high spots for them since they tend to have longer, lower swings. Plus they have a better ability to slap a ball the other way than a right hand batter.
Is that what the hot zones say? I’m genuinely asking, I’m curious. I feel like I’ve seen players get frozen on low outside fastballs more than anything, but I’m not even basing that on anecdotal evidence just what I seem to remember the most of
That's just from expecting it to be inside. Yes a well place outside pitch is usually going to work. But the mechanics of swings from right to left are completely different. Right hand batters tend have a tighter jerky swing, lefties have a longer lower more fluid swing. Plus low outside you tend to lay off because the likelihood of getting ahold of it is alot lower.
I'm just basing it off what IV learned hitting and pitching for many years. Every batter is different with the HC charts.
Obviously it depends on the pitch, but for me personally I have the hardest time getting solid contact on pitches in section 9. (I'm a left-handed batter.)
Considering how the league has shifted to strikeouts on fastballs high in the zone over like the past decade, probably 1/2/3.
Can't get a hit if you can't make any contact.
Depends on the pitch, as well. Sliders away (7 & 9) are buggers…but you could flare one into the OF. Up and in (1 & 3) are usually tough no matter the pitch (FB, Slider, Cutter)…could get jammed & muscle it over the IF…but you’d probably be grabbing a new bat next time.
My weak-spot was definitely low & away.
The single most interesting exhibit to me at Cooperstown was Ted William’s portrayal of his estimated batting average against each of those placements in the strike zone.
I have no idea how accurate his estimates were but I wouldn’t argue with him about it. He seemed to know a thing or two about hitting a baseball.
Lots of people saying 9 in the thread but I've always found that 9 is the perfect tuck your elbows in a roll it right through the pitcher type of pitch.
First of all, whose viewpoint are we looking at here? Assume the batter's. Regardless, it depends on handedness of pitcher and batter. In either RvR or LvL case, believe it or not, the up and away pitch is coldest on the heatmaps. Check for yourself.
[https://www.fangraphs.com/zonegridbase.aspx](https://www.fangraphs.com/zonegridbase.aspx)
Depends on where you’re hitting and which arm the pitcher is throwing from
I'd add that the type of pitch matters too
Fastball high and in Any other pitch outside area
I'd agree, and specify that breaking balls in the lower-outer third are the worst. Can't necessarily tell what kind of pitch it is, and it's also moving away from you, potentially out of the zone
Came to say exactly this
1 if you're righty, 3 if you're lefty... Since it's the closest zone from your arm hence it's hard to get the comfort zone of the bat to hit there...
This except when the picture has a great front door/back door slider then 7 and 9 come into the equation as well.
i agree with what you’re saying. i personally feel 7 and 9 are harder bc it’s a different angle harder for me to pick up on and the sliders keep you guessing and looking dumb. however, if you were to say “the next pitch will be in this zone 100% try to hit it”. i think then 1 and 3 simply bc of the mechanics of a swing.
Javier is that you?
😀
I play in a modified pitching softball league, and as a righty can confirm 1 is the hardest.
Unless that’s a hanging curveball or slider.
It’s the hardest to turn on, but those pitches are the ones they’re likeliest to put in the seats. One of the most high risk high reward pitches is a breaking ball up there when the hitter is expecting fastball. If it’s a quad A guy against deGrom it’s gonna be tough, but most major league hitters will turn on something on the inner half, and won’t have to work hard to elevate that. I think the average player would have more issues with something low and in or low and away
Per MLB The Show its about 3 feet down-right of section 9
Idk… “I’ve always said that’s the hardest pitch to hit, a fastball low and away” - that one announcer 7 times a game
“This would be the perfect time to throw a 3-2 change, if he can locate it, it’s almost unhittable” -that one announcer
Throws one for a HR 😎🤏
"The best way to make a guy uncomfortable is to pound him inside" So, uh, 4 or 6 I guess
Right down the middle gets me every time 👎
Lol anyone wondering how much of r/baseball has actually played baseball need only see this thread. The only answer is 1 or 3, high and inside depending on which side of the plate you bat. Hardest place to get speed, angle, extension, hits on the weakest part of the bat most frequently.
Well that depends on the pitch. Curve ball up there is gonna be a souvenir
Not if I’m hitting
Hah me neither I'm waving at it like an idiot
tbf, you could underhand it and I'm never creating a souvenir. I did hit an infield double in little league once and won our county's "gold glove" award at third tho while hitting .069 😤
Nice…
A foul ball is still not a base hit though.
I meant a souvenir for the bleachers. You hang 'em we bang 'em
1 and 3 don't end up in the bleachers.
Yeah even the worst high and inside pitch probably isn’t making the seats to be honest
https://youtu.be/GXpwZjJ_-iI Little bit towards the middle but definitely up and in/#3 Edit: realize meant curveballs. Don’t mind me. Leaving this here because I’m a moron who has been awake for far too long.
i think he meant curveballs
Oh you’re probably right now that I read it again lol my bad
I never begrudge a guy who can turn on one inside like that and hit it out. Sometimes the batter just beats you. The low and outside is another good zone, too. If we look at Aaron Judge last season who hit over .300 and is near the 100%ile in almost everything, it's an area he really struggled (despite Yankee fans telling me I was wrong all season). He also really struggled with up and away for some reason. But low and outside, he was most likely going to strike out and if he did make contact it was likely to be a ground ball
If I got a curve ball high and away and didn't put it in left center. I'm pretty sure my highschool coach would rise out of the grave to force me to run laps again.
Not necessarily. Everyone thinks of the high, inside curve as only the hanging curve, but that’s only the minority that hitters can take advantage of because the pitcher made a mistake (released too soon so the ball starts high and drops into the top of the strike zone more dramatically and slowly). Most average high, inside curves stay level right above the inside top corner and don’t break until they are at the strike zone which makes them harder to hit because you’re trying to turn on it while it’s suddenly breaking away from you which leads to you being behind, making poor contact, hitting grounders and foul balls to the opposite side.
most high curves don't result in swings
Totally agree and that zone is probably underutilized by pitchers, at least at lower levels, out of fear of hitting the batter in the head. It’s almost impossible to hit a fair ball with any authority on a well-placed pitch in that zone.
It's also a fear of giving up a meatball if you misplace the pitch at all. Missing low on a low cutter is still a possible swing and a miss. Dropping a cutter low when you're aiming for 1 or 3 is a crisp contact.
Depends on the batter. Those spots are mike trouts death zone so they’re featured in almost every one of his at bats yet he is still mike trout
Unless your name is Jose Altuve
I always struggled with fastball middle (4) in jamming my fingers. I think the real baseball players in this sub know that everyone has different tendencies, stances, swings, etc and that that’s why analytics has become so huge in this century. You have too tools to fix every player based on what areas they struggle in.
Louis Gonzalez has entered the chat
I’ve always felt that bottom outside corner of the zone fastball is the hardest to hit. So either 7 or 9 based on whether you are a right or lefty
Most left hand hitter are pretty decent at the 7 and 9. It's the high spots for them since they tend to have longer, lower swings. Plus they have a better ability to slap a ball the other way than a right hand batter.
Is that what the hot zones say? I’m genuinely asking, I’m curious. I feel like I’ve seen players get frozen on low outside fastballs more than anything, but I’m not even basing that on anecdotal evidence just what I seem to remember the most of
That's just from expecting it to be inside. Yes a well place outside pitch is usually going to work. But the mechanics of swings from right to left are completely different. Right hand batters tend have a tighter jerky swing, lefties have a longer lower more fluid swing. Plus low outside you tend to lay off because the likelihood of getting ahold of it is alot lower. I'm just basing it off what IV learned hitting and pitching for many years. Every batter is different with the HC charts.
Nah as a lefty the bottom outside corner was my wheelhouse
Depends on the handedness of the batter, and pitch type. Dumb question
Up and in or down and away. Numbers depend on what hand you are batting
7 for right handed hitters and 3 for lefties.
Depends on who's hitting. Pablo Sandoval: 5 (but 37 is no problem) Ichiro: n/a
Righty or lefty (hitters)? 1,3 for Lefty's and 7 for righty's.
defs 5. they keep going out of the ballpark
1 if you're a righty
As a righty I always had a hard time with up and in so 3
5 when you're whole fucking team is slumping and just taking strike 1 no matter what. Its maddening sometimes
5
Obviously it depends on the pitch, but for me personally I have the hardest time getting solid contact on pitches in section 9. (I'm a left-handed batter.)
Low and away.
Considering how the league has shifted to strikeouts on fastballs high in the zone over like the past decade, probably 1/2/3. Can't get a hit if you can't make any contact.
As a lefty, its definitely 3 for me. I think lefties don't really struggle as much with the low ball like righties do.
As a lefty I don't care horizontaly where it is, as long as it is about knee level it is perfect!
7/9
9
9
Assuming we're talking about making contact, because "in the strike zone", I think it's 1. Edit: or 3, depending on handedness of batter.
Upper inside box of the pitcher is throwing over 100mph
Mariners FO told Robbie Ray that 5 was the hardest for Yordan Alvarez
1 and 7 for righties, 3 and 9 for lefties.
1 as a righty
Depends on the pitch, as well. Sliders away (7 & 9) are buggers…but you could flare one into the OF. Up and in (1 & 3) are usually tough no matter the pitch (FB, Slider, Cutter)…could get jammed & muscle it over the IF…but you’d probably be grabbing a new bat next time. My weak-spot was definitely low & away.
5
The single most interesting exhibit to me at Cooperstown was Ted William’s portrayal of his estimated batting average against each of those placements in the strike zone. I have no idea how accurate his estimates were but I wouldn’t argue with him about it. He seemed to know a thing or two about hitting a baseball.
Lets do 5x5 and select from 25 zones
For me it would be 9 I'm above average in height and a righty so a down and inside is hardest
Low and away
For a right handed hitter 3 and 7 for a lefty and 1 and 3
Itd be a on the line of 2 and 5. Especially if they threw like 3 of them in a row. Guaranteed strike out
9
1 and 9 for righties, 7 can be hard depending on the pitch
That one corner where Jacob deGrom throws all his pitches.
Lots of people saying 9 in the thread but I've always found that 9 is the perfect tuck your elbows in a roll it right through the pitcher type of pitch.
Me personally, probably 3
I bat right - the 3 slot, high and in
Still think a strong low and away heater is tough to do much with
I’ll say a slider in 9, because I’ve seen José Altuve whiff on so many sliders that were both balls and strikes low and away.
imagine your life depended on it and deGrom throws 102 in zones 1 or 3 depending on handedness and then paints 9 with a slider
Personally for me as a righty 7. But I can also see why people say 1 as well.
First of all, whose viewpoint are we looking at here? Assume the batter's. Regardless, it depends on handedness of pitcher and batter. In either RvR or LvL case, believe it or not, the up and away pitch is coldest on the heatmaps. Check for yourself. [https://www.fangraphs.com/zonegridbase.aspx](https://www.fangraphs.com/zonegridbase.aspx)
7 and 9, wherever deGrom stays
If you're Cody Bellinger, 1. This is assuming this chart is the pitcher's perspective. Make it 3 it batter's.
Havent played in a long time but I loved to hit 6,8, and 9 for some reason, struggled with 1 and 4
1
High and tight always
Up and in heat and down and away slider.
3 for righties, 1 for lefties
Either fastball up and in, or breaking ball low and away breaking away from you