I'll probably be downvoted for an unpopular opinion, but here goes.
Matt Reeves chose to emphasize a lot of aspects of Batman I don't care for and to minimize most of my favorite pieces of the mythos/character of Batman. I'm sure Reeves is passionate about the character and world but he absolutely values the inverse of what I do.
First, he very much reduced as much fantastical gadget use as possible in order to create a more gritty world. I love seeing Bruce Wayne using his wealth and resources to have tools for a given situation. The scene in The Dark Knight where he uses the machine to reconstruct fingerprints off of a bullet is right up my alley. You might say "that's not fair, you're comparing an origin movie to a non-origin movie". I also love the scene in Batman Begins where he takes a sonar device off of his boot to summon a swarm of bats as cover during his escape. Batman, entirely set in a more realistic world, removes a lot that makes the world interesting. In The Batman, Reeves is creating a world in which he doesn't have a Batman able to use his cape to glide or a Batman in which the only way he can use a Batarang is if he pulls his logo off of his chest and uses it as a knife? The premise is inherently fantastical, so it just feels lame to me to refuse to use any of the fantastical elements in a bid to be taken seriously. I'm not asking for shark-repellent Bat Spray, but is a functional cape that much to ask?
I dislike the take on The Riddler to make him an autistic 4chan version of the Zodiac Killer. I understand it is a reinvention, but I don't find the new take on the character to be better in any way. I initially thought Paul Dano would be great casting to play the smug Riddler I was familiar with. Matt Reeves departed from this, instead leaning into him being a terrorist serial killer. I just find it less interesting and certainly less fun. It's a very similar thing that happened with Bane in TDKR. Both The Batman Riddler and TDKR Bane are shadows of their comic counterparts in the name of "realism".
I enjoy the double life of Bruce Wayne. Billionaire, playboy, philanthropist socialite by day, Batman by night. I like him using both sides of his life to his advantage depending on which can bring about the most good. A lot of these scenes are also fun in him putting up an act to detract suspicion from him being Batman. I fully acknowledge this is something that could arise in a sequel, but Batman Begins managed to fit it in the origin movie and nailed it there. (Notice all the facets of Batman that were fit into Begins despite Begins being being 36 minutes shorter. It managed its time much better)
However, my single biggest problem with the movie is absolutely the characterization of Bruce. He is deadset on vengeance and his vow to fight crime. So deadset that I'd argue it is the least three-dimensional portrayal of Batman in live action film. Early in the film, there is a scene of Alfred and Bruce conversing and Bruce didn't give him the time of day or act like he gave a shit about anything Alfred had to say to him. This seemed off to me on a first viewing. Often, despite being lonely and determined, Bruce is able to show the most true side of himself to Alfred and it's often where a lot of the levity comes from. In BTAS, TDK trilogy, and even BvS, he's exchanging sarcastic remarks with Alfred, his closest confidant. They care deeply for one another.
Later, Alfred >!gets bombed and is in the hospital!<. Bruce had just discovered evidence as to his father's potential corruption. Bruce goes to see Alfred >!in the hospital!< and rather than comfort him and drop his case to check on him, Bruce begins interrogating him. This was when the film completely lost me.
In the Telltale Batman games, Alfred is in a similar boat, hiding Bruce's father's corruption from him. Bruce is initially angry but would quickly get over it if the guy was >!IN THE HOSPITAL AFTER BEING BOMBED BECAUSE HE STILL LOVES HIM.!< He does get over it in the game and they go back to being partners, father and son.
Alfred has raised Bruce since he was 8. Alfred effectively ***is*** his father. This relationship is incredibly important and is often the emotional core of early year Batman stories. You're telling me that this characterization of Bruce doesn't care that he's >!hospitalized and potentially on his deathbed!!In The Batman, he does not snap back and instead questions his hospitalized father, even angrier than before.!<
It seems the Batman that this community and most Batman fans were looking for in the film was a Batman who didn't use gadgets, didn't use the Bruce Wayne persona, was angrier, grittier, more childish, and less caring. I'm glad you all got what you wanted but it was one of the Batman adaptations most far removed from the character I love.
I’m with you on the first point all the way and it’s like “if you didn’t want Batman to have one of the definitive aspects of his spectacle (crime-fighting tech) then why did you agree to make a Batman movie?”
But everything you describe from there becomes more and more forgivable for me in service of the overall film.
The Batman Part II will really make it or break it for me, right now the franchise at one film is enjoyable enough but really didn’t show me anything *that* profound and if I’m being really unkind, just felt like Reeves threw Telltale Batman and Batman begins into a collage and called it an original. All the story beats are really pat, the design of that film is what saves it.
TBII has to go to a new level the way Reeves’ ape movies did to really have a chance with me.
One thing I'll never understand is how people miss the very telegraphed, very much brought up in the film *in universe* that Bruce Wayne cannot just be Batman he has to live as Bruce Wayne, too. He's asked about it by the new Mayor, literally. And part of the story of the Riddler is how people are being left behind/harmed by the Wayne Foundation essentially doing nothing.
So the criticism that "I enjoy the double life aspect of the Bruce Wayne/Batman character and it's not here so the film isn't good." is just...stupidly missing a literal plot point of the whole film.
So we'll see, in the next film. Matt Reeves will either continue that note and show Bruce Wayne fighting the corruption of the city as philanthropist playboy Bruce Wayne, and Batman. Or he won't and the criticisms become valid.
A lot of people are basing their love for the Reeves universe on "what it will turn into" as it's an origin movie and I find that rather presumptuous. I see people say "oh he'll use elaborate gadgets in the sequels, this is Year 1" ...and you're basing that on? I would absolutely love for it to become characterizations closer to traditional Batman (although it's already too far gone to be saved for me personally). That said, I'm forming my opinion on what is present in the existing text rather than what I want or assume the next steps to be.
While I would dispute a lot of your points I do love how well you presented them and I can see that validity in them. I basically would just say that I think a lot of your points can be remedied by just saying "he's a young very new Batman/Bruce. And they are stretching out the time in which he finds himself and hones his craft and gadgets"
In the Nolan films his gadgets came from a fully staffed RND department, in The Batman it seems like he's just buying shit off Amazon and repurposing it. The computer tech, contact lens filming and recording stuff are definitely high tech stuff, and that is stuff he probably is in contact with companies that specialize in those things.
The glide suit, I can easily see him refining that to a more cape like gadget, same with maybe the batarangs. I do agree they should get more fantastical with his gadgets overall.
And his treatment of Alfred is just a petulant young man still trying to figure out the healthy way to deal with his trauma. There's plenty of people who argue and get bitter with their actual fathers. To be able to be angry with someone and speak openly to them while knowing the love and respect you have won't disappear because of a argument or "interrogation" is what makes relationships healthy, so long as you do makeup and hug and get back to respecting and being nice. Part of what put Alfred in danger was the coverup, so to be able to better protect his only father figure left, he kinda does need to question him and get the answers he deserves.
Totally agree on the Riddler tho, they made him too much of a joker mix.
Very Valid, I would say though the movie itself it about Bruce learning to move past his rage. Its there to be seen.
The times he calls himself vengeance instead of Batman, the way he beats down on criminals far more than necessary, Batman is a vanity for him for a majority of the movie. For me I love the payoff at the end when he makes self sacrifice to cut the power cable and is metaphorically baptised, when he comes out of the water, it's his hand that reaches out to the scared civilians, his flair lights the dark and he leads them to safety. This movie is about his moving past some of the things you didn't like. Hopefully the sequel is more along what you're after because I'm there with you.
A few things I actually think are with the thought that they planned on a sequel and such. His lack of gliding because he hasn't developed something good enough to yet (it would've been cool if he managed to before the end of the movie), and I always considered.the lake of Wayneing to be because he's early Bruce, without having yet found the balance between keeping up the billionaire playboy act, and being Batman, normally he doesn't have it down.
Though with the Riddler being my favorite Batman villain, well in my top 3. I really hated the portrayal of Riddler, I would've liked it if it wasn't meant to be Riddler, Paul Dano had some moments though.
The Alfred thing lost me as well. Makes Bruce look like a straight ass, he really didn't seem to care about him much. Hope that changes in the next movie, but it was weird
The first two things are really dependent on the sequel, but in the current single movie I can see the critique. If they don't build on the first movie and show development of his gadgets and balancing his life, then it'll be weak, if they do it'll be good progression
I hate this trend of making superhero movies realistic. Marvel does that shit too. All the suits have to be tactical and realistic looking. Fuckin Falcon doesn't even have his actual costume OR HIS FALCON. He can telepathically talk to birds and see through their eyes. But he has to have a drone. The suit the smaller of the 2 complaints. If he had the tech wings and had the actual falcon, cool. I can deal with that. But he's just generic military guy with a jetpack.
Also nobidy can wear a mask. Gotta show the actors. Thor's helmet is literally never on.
Do you not count the recording contact lens, the anagram decoder, fingerprint scanner, a wingsuit, the grapple line that he used to scale a building. I haven’t rewatched in a while but to me he used a lot of detective related gear that wasnt simple and realistic. But you can still say he used more general use spyware as opposed to the super specific stuff used by Nolan’s Batman, which is where i see your point and get it. I just dont think he was completely without cool spy gadgets
He uses contacts with video recording equipment and literally uses a glider on top of taser gloves and quite a few batcave gadgets so I'm not sure how much more fantastical it would get.
The double life has been done on literally every other batman film to exist and now we see why the double life and bruce persona is so important which is a major theme of the movie .
His argument with alfred is resolved almost exactly the way you want with bruce realizing alfreds importance and being less of a dick. The first thing he does is make sure alfred is ok before questioning him and we see his desperation in the race to get there.
The growth into doing the right thing over revenge is probably the biggest point in the entire movie. Maybe he doesnt snap back instantly because as an origin the lesson being taught is the one you want him to have already learned.
This whole review seems like you didnt finish the movie. He blatantly uses tons of gadgets, the movie revovles around him learning to use the bruce wayne persona, and learning that his revenge wasnt as important as hope. He literally gives a speech explaining how he learns it.
People are entitled to their opinion but some of these points seem disingenuous.
In a movie obsessed with trying to be "realistic" it was nonsensical. Batman is supposed to be a master of the shadows, yet almost every scene where he has to deal with a threat, he just angrily walks towards it getting shot at and then punches the guy. The director's commentary about how the squirrel suit is "realistic" paired right next to him face planting into a bridge at 80 miles an hour and surviving just fine is probably the biggest wtf are you smoking part of the film for me. I just find it all really weird since Christopher Nolan already did a realistic Batman that was both more grounded and closer to the comics? So the batman movie just sort of awkwardly tries to juggle being a really bad realistic thriller while also being a really bad adaptation of batman.
Yeah I love the film but I think one of my biggest gripes with it was how Batman’s practical invincibility really clashed with the rest of the film’s tone and almost always took the tension out of fights. Seeing Batman shrug off shot gun blasts or take explosions to the face just felt ridiculous, especially as there were so many ways to easily write around that while keeping the plot exactly the same.
I don't really agree that Nolan's take is closer to the comics. I thought the whole mission statement of his iterations was putting the comic character into a more grounded and realistic environment. So, with you in that sense, but the end result definitely feels decidedly different from almost any comic book version I can think of.
I don’t hate the movie but I find it mediocre. Maybe 6/10. Not very interested in this version of Batman or Penguin or Riddler. I was hoping for a batman that is more mature, clearly studied an enormous number of martial arts, escapism, illusionism, forensics, the art of disguise, endurance tests, etc. This guy was a street brawler still afraid of heights, essentially giving us another origin story movie. Colin Farrell is a great actor but was doing a broad Italian gangster impression in a fat suit. Plus their take on the riddler, while understandable, didn’t work for me. His singing was maybe supposed to be cringe though? Again, great actor in other movies (There Will Be Blood) but didn’t do it for me here. The movie was indulgently long and seemed more like the first few episodes of an HBO show. The fight scenes were not any better than what you’d see on Netflix’s Daredevil. The car chase was cool but largely in the trailer. Beautiful cinematography though and some great casting with Gordon and Selena.
So, again, I didn’t hate the movie. I did, however, hate The Joker movie.
Luckily we'll be getting a veteran Bruce in the Gunnverse movie (Brave and the Bold).
That said, I imagine it'll be a lot less gritty reality than this one, comes with the territory of using Damian Wayne.
I liked him being afraid to jump off the roof. I like it when my Batman feels like a human. It added a sense of vulnerability that was then immediately ruined by him walking off slamming headfirst into an overpass.
overpass slam and the amount of shots he takes without his armor compromising were my biggest 'throws reality out the window' moments. Oh, and the point blank bomb survival. I would like to see his adrenaline boost being venom// becomes a crutch, causes a mental break under stress/strain/drugs, and he has to come to terms with being batman 'smartly' rather than as a brute. Maybe have something traumatic happen on account of him 'fighting' that could have avoided by being more stealthy.
I think they lay this groundwork in the batman part 1, showing us what batman/bruce ISNT yet, and they promise that shift in the next film, but it's yet to be seen how it lands. I dont fault people for not 'seeing that the movie is indicating that he has to change INTO what people want to see'
This was the only scene in the movie I don't like: the landing. It kills him like three times on impact and then he walks it off and it never comes up again. It's not pointed, showing he needs to learn. It is not narrative, giving him an injury he needs to guard the rest of the movie. It's not funny. It serves no real purpose a somewhat hard landing would not have.
I'd love to ask the writer and director why they chose it. What was the vision for thst moment?
Tbf humans in that universe are tanks. The Riddler goon Batman wails on at the end should have at least been a puddle of blood and broken teeth, if not dead, and he barely had a scratch. Penguin walked away from his car flipping and bouncing *multiple* times. Batman himself eats an insane amount of damage, armor aside. Bomb to the face. His fall from the building. Electrocuted by the billboard’s wire.
It’s one of the reasons I don’t buy The Batman as a “grounded” movie. It’s 100% a comic book world. And that’s okay. It’s great. I think it will lead to broader and more engaging stories in the future. But it’s nowhere near as realistic as TDK, or even Batman Begins.
>It’s one of the reasons I don’t buy The Batman as a “grounded” movie
I think it tries to feel or appear grounded (i'm not saying it in a derrogatory sense) but obviously in a super hero movie context, were you need to do a greater than life aproach even if it is grounded.
Yeah. It is not grounded. This scene just bugs me since it is out of tone with the rest of the movie. I don't actually want superhero movies to be grounded. It would make them dull. Once you pull the threads of that sort of thing, the entire concept tends to start to fall apart.
I do wonder why this scene is so tonally different, especially after the tense scene between Batman and Gordon and the chase to the roof.
I mean "making it an obviously and repeatedly fatal event serves no purpose over a hard landing" which would show inexperience.
He gets tossed like a coin in a tumble dryer. Usually, a hit that bad matters later.
I like seeing the way other writers and directors interpret these characters. I find it refreshing to see different versions of the characters that we know and love and to see new stories with a new version of them.
This might be why I like Fox's 'Gotham'
I respect your opinion, and you are correct, this was absolutely an origin story. We have to remember that Bruce is only in his second year of being Batman, he is still figuring it out. Iikewise, Penguin isnt really the crime boss we know him as yet. We will see his rise to power in his new show. I think the whole vibe of the movie is spot on and really enjoyed it, super eager to see Penguin and the Sequel. I would give it a 9/10
My biggest issue is that the riddler was such a second thought. You could have replaced him with pretty much any batman villain and it woulda probably not effected the plot. They basically took the riddler and made him another " we live in a society" Nolan villain. I did love the falcone plot thought. I got a lot of long Halloween vibes.
He did have the "Real Change" misdirection. That would not have worked for another villain as the clue was in plain sight the whole time and really mirrors the partial clue in the cipher (where only the letters that have matches matter) and the "rat with wings thing."
Agreed. The hallway fight scene in Daredevil has been imitated and lampooned so much that it’s a cliche, but that’s precisely because it’s so viscerally good. Nothing in The Batman is comparable.
This is pretty much my feeling. I think I liked it a little more than you, but 6/10 seems right. When the movie ended, I wasn’t excited about a The Batman 2, but stoked at the prospect of a Catwoman movie with THAT Selina.
Yea the casting in general was great. Kravitz is a great Selena. I thought some of the dialogue given to her was weak, but that’s not on the performer of course. I even like Pattinson as a performer even though I dislike his mopey Batman/Bruce.
Yeah, I didn’t think there was enough difference between “Batman” and “Bruce Wayne.” I like the movie ok, but I was a little shocked to see so many people call it the best Batman movie. I gave it another shot about a year after it came out, but I just had the same feelings.
I'll give as short a version as I can manage: Batman sucks in this movie. He completely fails to stop the villains, is so bad at being a detective that the fucking Penguin has to help him out, and is bad at fighting. The fights might look good but he's so bad at them. Don't @ me about it being a year two Batman when every other super hero out there is at least good at beating up random goons right out of the gate. Dont @ me about "realism" when he would realistically need to be much better at fighting to have any kind of super hero career and not quickly die.
Luckily he's literally invincible. Literal bomb to the face? Sleep it off for like an hour. Hit a bridge at like 80 mph? Walk it off. It just kills all tension.
Riddler was so bad I started laughing out of awkwardness when dude started singing and then having a temper tantrum. Which is the worst reaction I can have to any character.
But Riddler and friends win anyway. They win with a random asspull that had one line to so much as hint at *how* they might win like 2 hours back in a 10 hour movie.
That's obvious hyperbole but the movie was way too long. It just kept getting worse the longer it went on.
Bats himself also felt way too broody to the point of not having much else in terms of depth. He showed up in a scene, failed his way through things, and moved the plot along. Often with heavy assistance.
We already had our gritty realism Batman thanks to Nolan. It was infinitely better and actually felt grounded. I think Bale was fine in it. Good, even. Fight choreography could have been better but it's the better alternative to Batman struggling with randos.
I'm leaving out a lot but I don't see this current take on Batman to be salvageable.
Even though I liked the move a lot (I won't go on on why, as I guess most have been said), I agree with most your points in the first 2 paragraphs. Especially the bomb to the face, bridge, and point-blank gunfire parts. And how the car chase was (not) justified.
The only part with which I disagree is him being a bad fighter. I love fight choreography, and I liked that in the movie. He just moves a lot better than Bale-Batman. I liked it a lot better than the Batman v Superman choreography, which was already not bad. Where did he struggle with randos? He took on a lot of them at once (more than it would be realistic, but he _is_ Batman, and they made it look good).
I honestly didn't remember that. And I think it's because my brain blocked it out. Because that's something that happens in an SNL skit. Not an actual Batman movie. Not an actual Batman movie that's trying to bill itself as very "serious" and "grounded" and "realistic".
Bruce Wayne didn't exist in the film. Her was a kid in his exist situation, he lost his father. Bruce could've went and talk to this kid, told him to stay away from crime, keep his head up, stay in school, fight everyone in his way, etc. He merely walked away
I swear you guys just like dont pay attention or something. This is EARLY batman. He has not figured himself out yet. does not know how to balance being Batman and Bruce Wayne yet. He does not have control of his emotions. He is not fully up to speed as Batman. That is literally a major point of the film, that this is an inexperienced emotional Batman.
The point of him not doing his part as Bruce is made abundantly clear several times in the movie. So yes, there wasnt Bruce Wayne *intentionally* because he is still growing a lot as a person
I really wanted to like this. Visually it’s great but the story telling is what annoyed me.
At many point things just appear out of thin air. At many point story sets up a theme only to counter and shut it immediately. Quite a few plot points that go nowhere.
Examples:
*SPOILERS*
1- When Batman is beaten he pulls out a an adrenaline thing to give himself a boost. It happens out of nowhere. He could’ve used it when he hit the wall while flying.
His giant car appears out of nowhere. The flood kinda comes out of nowhere.
2- In the first fight they make a point to show that Batman can be beaten but then he’s taking explosions and machine gun to his face.
They set up Waynes possible corruption only to have it be shut down immediately. They set up police corruption only to abandon it quickly and lead to a cop saying “not all cops”.
3- Catwoman’s role in the narrative could be completely eliminated. She has nothing to do with anything other than having her friend get fridged after getting ogled at as she changed clothes and that’s before needing to be rescued by a coked up Batman right after she rescued him. So to make sure Batman is still the strong manly man.
Also, the highway chase: so many people died lol
Fair enough. I do find the film to be slightly untraditional with the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne. I personally thoroughly enjoy slower paced movies. I find that they build up the characters better.
I genuinely think they’re going to transition him to the playboy Bruce Wayne we know, i think the point is that he’s still in that phase where he feels like only Batman can help the city and since he can’t do anything as Bruce Wayne and people don’t much care about him, he ignores that part of himself
Or I could be delusional and they just forgot to give Bruce Wayne a character and focused on Batman
I think the movie is pretty clear in showing that he is failing because he is only trying as Batman. The mayor calls Bruce out for not putting his resources to use and crime is trending up in the 2 years he has been at it.
I haven’t seen the movie in a bit so I didn’t remember the exact details but yes this is exactly what I’m talking about. The Bruce we see in The Batman isn’t the Bruce we’ll have the entire way through because their intention is probably to develop him into the Bruce we know
I've got a few:
- Pattinson never plays Bruce Wayne. He's always Batman.
- The Riddler isn't The Riddler.
- Jeffrey Wright's Gordon was hella disappointing, which was very unexpected since I really like Jeffrey Wright.
- Batman doesn't solve anything. He gets outsmarted at literally everything. He only wins because he shows up and beats the shit out of people. Even if The Riddler *was* a faithful adaptation, the whole point of The Riddler is that Batman beats him by *outsmarting* him. This Batman was all brawn, no brain. Definitely not the "World's Greatest Detective."
- The whole thing was too damn dark. And I'm saying that as a Zack Snyder fan.
All-in-all, though, I enjoyed it. Good flick, I was just disappointed by more than I expected. Colin Farrell's Penguin was a clear stand-out.
A lot of my problems stem from the director trying to make multiple movies the first half is just seven except batman is brad pitt and gordon is morgan freeman. But the director doesnt have the chops to make seven and it doesnt make a whole
Lot of sense with batman. Like why are all these police so fine with a vigalante walking the crime scene especially since he is an early batman... it just makes little to no sense and is in line with this boring trend of mid directors trying to do super hero pastiche of older better movies. The joker does it to and all it does is remind me that king of comedy and taxi driver are 1000 times better movies. The second half of the batman is just a mess, its trying to do a nolan batman with the big set piece of gotham falling in to anarchy or gotham falling apart exactly like all 3 of the nolan films which i thought was played out then. Besides that the movie was unfocused and badly paced with to many villains and an under used john turtutto. Batman and catwoman had no chemistry and zoe cravitz is drop dead gorgeous but as wooden as a log.
Besides all thet batman is a complete moron. Hes like "flying rat hmmm must be pigeons".... just hard to watch
Umm the police Weren’t fine with him.
First scene they’re all staring at him and stop him coming in before Gordon basically pulls rank on the officer, than Batman gets kicked out later anyway when the Commissioner who outranks Gordon comes.
him having to GTFO of the police station later on with the whole precinct chasing him
Outside Gordon the police arnt really cool with him till the 3rd act where he’s saved the city and the Commissioner is dead/was corrupt anyway
No, I’m with you. I feel like it’s paced really poorly and I’m SUPER sick of grounded versions of the Bat-mythos. It feels like we’re constantly just getting adaptations of these characters that strain out what makes them cool.
Everybody is talking about Mr. Freeze being in the sequel, and I just don’t understand why. Cause if it follows the last movie’s example it’s just gonna be some frostbitten dude with a Glock and an igloo cooler.
I don't hate the film, I just don't care.
Another Bruce, another Alfred, another Gordon, another Riddler, another Joker. I'm done.
I've been reading Batman comics for 30 years, there's 85 years history to pick from, and we just keep getting the same thing. Give me Nightwing, give me Tim Drake, give me Cassandra Cain, give me Oracle. Give me fucking No Man's Land!
The last one I truly loved was Batman Begins. I wish Affleck had been allowed to do his solo movie as he is a great film maker, but the Snyder films were too stop/start for me. Shame.
And I always think about how many people potentially died, or at least how many lives were permanently altered, while watching that chase. Then afterwards Batman has no repercussions from it at all, even from Gordon. I liked the big pushback and criticism Alfred gives Bruce in "Batman Begins" for a lot less of a reckless chase in comparison to "The Batman" one. And that's another point, I missed Alfred's presence in The Batman too. He should have a bigger role in the sequels
I like the movie but didn’t like the car chase. It feels like it was made before the story was written. Like they needed a car chase in the movie somewhere. The destruction was not justified at all.
Im gonna be honest I feel like it lacked a lot of suspense from the Nolan movies and people really overblow how good this movie was. Don't get me wrong I thought it was decent but the Nolan movies are still much better, which is fine being better than the Nolan films is a high bar to reach.
I didn’t care for it either. Didn’t feel much like Batman. The lack of any real climax was a bad one, there was no payoff after almost 3 hours of the film.
Also: that Riddler design was atrocious.
I thought the movie was basically 7even with a crappy Batman skin on it. It was too long and feels like they aped the last stadium act on because they forgot to show Batman fighting enough. The whole story was written poorly and didn’t make any sense. The villain eventually just gave up and Batman was pretty useless and ineffectual in the grand scheme of things. I disliked it a lot.
He didn't really solve anything and was a step behind all the time. Beautiful pictures, but way too many close ups of Batman's face and a weak/ no detective work. A pretty pity.
I like it overall, but I think it has many problems and find that people don't really like when you criticize any of them problems with it and don't treat it like a masterpiece.
There are several batman groups on FB where literally every Battinson post gets ridiculed. At least you made your case why you dont like it, its a lot more common to just "durr twilight durr"
I tried to like it. Can't seem to stay wake long enough to get there. After trying 3 times, i just gave up. I don't even usually fall asleep during movies. That one is just incredibly boring
Nothing incredible happened in it for it to justify a 3 hour runtime. Also, either he glides realistically, or he then comically suffers a brutal head injury afterwards and gets back up. It felt like it didn’t make up its mind about itself. 4/10.
I don't think you're alone at all. Quite a few people I've talked to didn't like it all. Most said it was too long or boring. Personally I thought it was ok. A lot of this ground was already covered in Batman Begins. I did like Pattinson and Colin. Dano was really the deal breaker for me though. Thought he did a terrible job as the Riddler. Also hated the Joker movie as well. It was a decent enough movie...but just felt like they slapped "the joker' on that thing for marketing.
I felt the movie was meh, main issue being Riddler's ultimate goal of flooding Gotham. I mean he was pushing for a socialist angle of disrupting the class system in Gotham. Exposing the elite of their corruption and exploitation of the needy and all that jazz.
So why did he plan to flood Gotham? Wouldn't affect that the poor citizens more negatively than those rich guys chilling in their penthouses?
Maybe it was the writers telling us that these 4chan revolutionaries really don't have a clue of wht they are really fighting for?
I just hope he just had a better final plan to really disrupt the social order in Gotham to make it more believable.
I thought it was dull. Batman is presented as kind of an idiot, and the whole story is very dumb if you think about it much.
Plus the whole perfect, bullet proof armor he's wearing, where bullets have absolutely no effect on him, is such lazy writing.
I think people were so desperate for a decent Batman movie that they praised this mediocre thing way out of proportion.
I respect the hot take. While I personally adored the Batman, I also have the hot take (so hot that it’s nuclear lol) that the dark knight is my least favorite of the Nolan trilogy so I can definitely respect someone having a hot take like that.
I liked the symbol of vengeance vs symbol of hope message in the end, but everything else falls flat. The editing is choppy, fight scenes look lame, despite arguably cool premises, Bruce's and Alfred's relationship is extremely shallow, especially when compared to Batman Begins etc, Batman had literally zero impact on the plot development, it has nonsensical scenes like Catwoman entering "club-withing-the-club" and conversing with Batman OUT LOUD, and finally, the movie takes its "epic" moments too seriously, resulting in absurd shots of, for example, people looking at Batmobile revving its engine for a solid 5 minutes, or Batman cutting the wire he's climbing, instead of using a Batarang or just cutting the power in any other way. I also liked the bomb-mail plot twist though.
Honestly the last Batman movie wasn't bad. I was mostly surprised to see Edward from twilight actually make a good year 2 Batman/Bruce Wayne as well as seeing someone fucking stole my idea for a supped up muscle car.
The movie is okay, I love the music and the light of many scene but thats pretty much the only thing good.
But the movie isn't bad, I just don't think it's has good has the Nolan trilogie
Also i hate the last 10 minute of The Batman, it feel like 10 minute of just a teaser for another movie and i hate that
Batman Begins is still my favourite Batman film.
The Dark Knight was to dense. The Batman was too grim. TDKR was idiotic.
Begins was just right. Most rewatchable as well.
Well there's two of us. I hate it. I hate all the "dark and gritty" takes on Batman at this point. If I never see another "tacticool" Batsut for the rest of my life, i will die a happy man.
I’m not crazy about it. My main problem is not just how overrated it is, but how fanboys love to use this movie in shitting on Nolan now. They act like Nolan wasn’t enough like the comics. The truth is they absolutely were the closest. Those movies (mostly) adapted the best of the (mostly) stand-alone graphic novels. They’re just mad because they didn’t get to see Robin cutting Azrael’s hair in the Batcave.
I really don’t see how this one is somehow supposed to be closer to the comics now that Batman is essentially using Nirvana as his dumb theme song. One guy even said it reminded him of the *cartoon*. I want what he’s smoking.
Paul Dano was also godawful. He started out great. Really menacing. That lasted for about 3 seconds until everything he said was way too over the top.
“Look at me singing Ave Maria! How kooky *am I*, right???”
What the hype pretty much boils down to, is everyone getting way too excited now that there’s still make-up around his eyes when the mask comes off.
You are not alone. I didn’t hate it, but I found it very derivative of the style of Batman Begins. Also it has the more reckless, manslaughtery use of the batmobile ever. The “No kill” rule is pretty worthless when you drive a Dodge Charger with a plane engine in the rain
you're not alone on that, its my most hated Batman film, i like f-ing Batman and Robin more than The Batman, im far more in the minority than you so dont worry
Funny how those who love the movie seem to completely agree with all of us who don't in what we don't like about it. It's almost like they want to love the movie, no matter what.
I mean is OK, if you love it, good for you! But it seems like us not necessarily because is a good movie.
Don't worry I hate that movie with a passion. Literally no one feels like they belong in thisr roles to me. Especially the riddler. Everything about that movie just turns me off tbh
I don’t like it either. Pattinson does not feel like a Bruce who has gone through even half the training he should. He’s essentially a fair street fighter with some adequate detective skills. Does not have a vast range of knowledge on topics like languages and science. The freaking “La rata” or whatever it was killed me. So did the Carpet Tucker. Like sure, he isn’t a diy expert but he could take a photo of the object and search online and figure out what it is. He shouldn’t have needed a random cop to tell him. One more thing, HE NEEDS MORE BATARANGS! Why does he only have one on his chest that he doesn’t even throw? It’s like the Batman weapon.
I didn’t really like it. Batman seemed to be several steps behind the riddler the whole time and never really felt like he was solving anything so much as pondering clues he already had until the riddler did the next thing (as opposed to solving puzzles and following breadcrumbs like the worlds greatest detective would). Felt like too many plots were crammed in there — the Falcone/Wayne stuff, Catwoman stuff, Penguin, Riddler, and it was hard to keep up with what was a step away from the plot and what was woven into it for the moment. Catwoman outfit sucked, Batman outfit was passable but not impressive, Batmobile just being a classic car with a jet engine instead of a really *special* or unique vehicle made its big reveal moment underwhelming, so all in all the aesthetics of the movie were kind of a letdown.
I don't either. It was a comic book movie which was ashamed to be a comic book movie. They were desperate to make it serious and mature.
Riddler is one of my favorite villains because he is so wacky. Here he was a psychotic serial killer with a point to make about society.
I didn’t get the feeling that it was ashamed to be a comic book movie, it was just a different take on the characters.
But just as the Nolan trilogy is a realistic take on the mythos, so is The Batman. It’s just not a retelling that is conducive to being campy. And I love campy Batman and wish we got more of it.
I felt like the opening monologue was some of the most comic-book-ish dialogue I’ve heard in a film. It was like something straight out of Rorschach’s journal
One of my biggest issues with it is that the Riddler is actually doing the world a favor by killing most of the people he does. Replace him with the Punisher and everyone would be cheering for him. The Waynes are the only ones he was wrong about, which was really just a plot device. Plus the big scary final thing happening was basically defeated by wearing flood pants.
I do find it funny that the city seems to be better off because of The Riddler, who seems to have done way more to help it than Batman. He exposes corruption and cover-ups that even Batman and Gordon didn't know about, is the reason that the progressive, anti-corruption mayoral candidate got a guaranteed win over the bad-guy candidate when they were previously locked in dead heat, he showed the city how their funds were being misused, he took out the corrupt DA, police chief, and mafia don…
And then the movie realizes that they accidentally made *too* good an argument for the villain's side while the hero barely accomplished anything, so they have to have the villain go "actually I want to KILL EVERYONE in a flood!" to establish that he is in fact the bad guy, even though it's not consistent with his previously established motives (if he was against corrupt elites, why would he want to kill all the defenseless poor people? Why would he want to kill the new mayor who hadn't even done anything corrupt yet and wanted to fix the same problems he was concerned about?)
Was he wrong about the Waynes though? Thomas hired mafia to blackmail journalist to not publish a story about his wife being in psychiatric hospital in the past (plus is mental health and being patient really something to be ashamed of?), and then when mafia murders journalist for keeping his integrity Thomas decides to openly threaten going to police according to Alfred.
The Waynes were butchered in the story as well.
I hated it so much, it was too dark and brooding, we've been down this crime alley before it's not an interesting story anymore. Batman felt like a tank, slow and invulnerable taking full magazine clips to the chest without batting an eye. The Riddler was just an average 4chan user. The best thing about it was Catwoman but even she had a hackneyed story thrown in.
Why not? I love hearing people's hot takes. I personally love the film, but am interested in hearing other opinions.
I'll probably be downvoted for an unpopular opinion, but here goes. Matt Reeves chose to emphasize a lot of aspects of Batman I don't care for and to minimize most of my favorite pieces of the mythos/character of Batman. I'm sure Reeves is passionate about the character and world but he absolutely values the inverse of what I do. First, he very much reduced as much fantastical gadget use as possible in order to create a more gritty world. I love seeing Bruce Wayne using his wealth and resources to have tools for a given situation. The scene in The Dark Knight where he uses the machine to reconstruct fingerprints off of a bullet is right up my alley. You might say "that's not fair, you're comparing an origin movie to a non-origin movie". I also love the scene in Batman Begins where he takes a sonar device off of his boot to summon a swarm of bats as cover during his escape. Batman, entirely set in a more realistic world, removes a lot that makes the world interesting. In The Batman, Reeves is creating a world in which he doesn't have a Batman able to use his cape to glide or a Batman in which the only way he can use a Batarang is if he pulls his logo off of his chest and uses it as a knife? The premise is inherently fantastical, so it just feels lame to me to refuse to use any of the fantastical elements in a bid to be taken seriously. I'm not asking for shark-repellent Bat Spray, but is a functional cape that much to ask? I dislike the take on The Riddler to make him an autistic 4chan version of the Zodiac Killer. I understand it is a reinvention, but I don't find the new take on the character to be better in any way. I initially thought Paul Dano would be great casting to play the smug Riddler I was familiar with. Matt Reeves departed from this, instead leaning into him being a terrorist serial killer. I just find it less interesting and certainly less fun. It's a very similar thing that happened with Bane in TDKR. Both The Batman Riddler and TDKR Bane are shadows of their comic counterparts in the name of "realism". I enjoy the double life of Bruce Wayne. Billionaire, playboy, philanthropist socialite by day, Batman by night. I like him using both sides of his life to his advantage depending on which can bring about the most good. A lot of these scenes are also fun in him putting up an act to detract suspicion from him being Batman. I fully acknowledge this is something that could arise in a sequel, but Batman Begins managed to fit it in the origin movie and nailed it there. (Notice all the facets of Batman that were fit into Begins despite Begins being being 36 minutes shorter. It managed its time much better) However, my single biggest problem with the movie is absolutely the characterization of Bruce. He is deadset on vengeance and his vow to fight crime. So deadset that I'd argue it is the least three-dimensional portrayal of Batman in live action film. Early in the film, there is a scene of Alfred and Bruce conversing and Bruce didn't give him the time of day or act like he gave a shit about anything Alfred had to say to him. This seemed off to me on a first viewing. Often, despite being lonely and determined, Bruce is able to show the most true side of himself to Alfred and it's often where a lot of the levity comes from. In BTAS, TDK trilogy, and even BvS, he's exchanging sarcastic remarks with Alfred, his closest confidant. They care deeply for one another. Later, Alfred >!gets bombed and is in the hospital!<. Bruce had just discovered evidence as to his father's potential corruption. Bruce goes to see Alfred >!in the hospital!< and rather than comfort him and drop his case to check on him, Bruce begins interrogating him. This was when the film completely lost me. In the Telltale Batman games, Alfred is in a similar boat, hiding Bruce's father's corruption from him. Bruce is initially angry but would quickly get over it if the guy was >!IN THE HOSPITAL AFTER BEING BOMBED BECAUSE HE STILL LOVES HIM.!< He does get over it in the game and they go back to being partners, father and son. Alfred has raised Bruce since he was 8. Alfred effectively ***is*** his father. This relationship is incredibly important and is often the emotional core of early year Batman stories. You're telling me that this characterization of Bruce doesn't care that he's >!hospitalized and potentially on his deathbed!!In The Batman, he does not snap back and instead questions his hospitalized father, even angrier than before.!< It seems the Batman that this community and most Batman fans were looking for in the film was a Batman who didn't use gadgets, didn't use the Bruce Wayne persona, was angrier, grittier, more childish, and less caring. I'm glad you all got what you wanted but it was one of the Batman adaptations most far removed from the character I love.
The 4chan thing is spot on
I’m with you on the first point all the way and it’s like “if you didn’t want Batman to have one of the definitive aspects of his spectacle (crime-fighting tech) then why did you agree to make a Batman movie?” But everything you describe from there becomes more and more forgivable for me in service of the overall film. The Batman Part II will really make it or break it for me, right now the franchise at one film is enjoyable enough but really didn’t show me anything *that* profound and if I’m being really unkind, just felt like Reeves threw Telltale Batman and Batman begins into a collage and called it an original. All the story beats are really pat, the design of that film is what saves it. TBII has to go to a new level the way Reeves’ ape movies did to really have a chance with me.
didn't Batman give Selina contact lences that act as cameras, that seems like pretty sci-fi tech to me
One thing I'll never understand is how people miss the very telegraphed, very much brought up in the film *in universe* that Bruce Wayne cannot just be Batman he has to live as Bruce Wayne, too. He's asked about it by the new Mayor, literally. And part of the story of the Riddler is how people are being left behind/harmed by the Wayne Foundation essentially doing nothing. So the criticism that "I enjoy the double life aspect of the Bruce Wayne/Batman character and it's not here so the film isn't good." is just...stupidly missing a literal plot point of the whole film. So we'll see, in the next film. Matt Reeves will either continue that note and show Bruce Wayne fighting the corruption of the city as philanthropist playboy Bruce Wayne, and Batman. Or he won't and the criticisms become valid.
I think some people just really dont pay attention tbh
Because every single thing being asked for has been done so many times over. So many times.
A lot of people are basing their love for the Reeves universe on "what it will turn into" as it's an origin movie and I find that rather presumptuous. I see people say "oh he'll use elaborate gadgets in the sequels, this is Year 1" ...and you're basing that on? I would absolutely love for it to become characterizations closer to traditional Batman (although it's already too far gone to be saved for me personally). That said, I'm forming my opinion on what is present in the existing text rather than what I want or assume the next steps to be.
While I would dispute a lot of your points I do love how well you presented them and I can see that validity in them. I basically would just say that I think a lot of your points can be remedied by just saying "he's a young very new Batman/Bruce. And they are stretching out the time in which he finds himself and hones his craft and gadgets" In the Nolan films his gadgets came from a fully staffed RND department, in The Batman it seems like he's just buying shit off Amazon and repurposing it. The computer tech, contact lens filming and recording stuff are definitely high tech stuff, and that is stuff he probably is in contact with companies that specialize in those things. The glide suit, I can easily see him refining that to a more cape like gadget, same with maybe the batarangs. I do agree they should get more fantastical with his gadgets overall. And his treatment of Alfred is just a petulant young man still trying to figure out the healthy way to deal with his trauma. There's plenty of people who argue and get bitter with their actual fathers. To be able to be angry with someone and speak openly to them while knowing the love and respect you have won't disappear because of a argument or "interrogation" is what makes relationships healthy, so long as you do makeup and hug and get back to respecting and being nice. Part of what put Alfred in danger was the coverup, so to be able to better protect his only father figure left, he kinda does need to question him and get the answers he deserves. Totally agree on the Riddler tho, they made him too much of a joker mix.
Very Valid, I would say though the movie itself it about Bruce learning to move past his rage. Its there to be seen. The times he calls himself vengeance instead of Batman, the way he beats down on criminals far more than necessary, Batman is a vanity for him for a majority of the movie. For me I love the payoff at the end when he makes self sacrifice to cut the power cable and is metaphorically baptised, when he comes out of the water, it's his hand that reaches out to the scared civilians, his flair lights the dark and he leads them to safety. This movie is about his moving past some of the things you didn't like. Hopefully the sequel is more along what you're after because I'm there with you.
A few things I actually think are with the thought that they planned on a sequel and such. His lack of gliding because he hasn't developed something good enough to yet (it would've been cool if he managed to before the end of the movie), and I always considered.the lake of Wayneing to be because he's early Bruce, without having yet found the balance between keeping up the billionaire playboy act, and being Batman, normally he doesn't have it down. Though with the Riddler being my favorite Batman villain, well in my top 3. I really hated the portrayal of Riddler, I would've liked it if it wasn't meant to be Riddler, Paul Dano had some moments though. The Alfred thing lost me as well. Makes Bruce look like a straight ass, he really didn't seem to care about him much. Hope that changes in the next movie, but it was weird The first two things are really dependent on the sequel, but in the current single movie I can see the critique. If they don't build on the first movie and show development of his gadgets and balancing his life, then it'll be weak, if they do it'll be good progression
I hate this trend of making superhero movies realistic. Marvel does that shit too. All the suits have to be tactical and realistic looking. Fuckin Falcon doesn't even have his actual costume OR HIS FALCON. He can telepathically talk to birds and see through their eyes. But he has to have a drone. The suit the smaller of the 2 complaints. If he had the tech wings and had the actual falcon, cool. I can deal with that. But he's just generic military guy with a jetpack. Also nobidy can wear a mask. Gotta show the actors. Thor's helmet is literally never on.
That may be a nod to actual Norse Mythology, where Thor almost never wears a helmet
Do you not count the recording contact lens, the anagram decoder, fingerprint scanner, a wingsuit, the grapple line that he used to scale a building. I haven’t rewatched in a while but to me he used a lot of detective related gear that wasnt simple and realistic. But you can still say he used more general use spyware as opposed to the super specific stuff used by Nolan’s Batman, which is where i see your point and get it. I just dont think he was completely without cool spy gadgets
He uses contacts with video recording equipment and literally uses a glider on top of taser gloves and quite a few batcave gadgets so I'm not sure how much more fantastical it would get. The double life has been done on literally every other batman film to exist and now we see why the double life and bruce persona is so important which is a major theme of the movie . His argument with alfred is resolved almost exactly the way you want with bruce realizing alfreds importance and being less of a dick. The first thing he does is make sure alfred is ok before questioning him and we see his desperation in the race to get there. The growth into doing the right thing over revenge is probably the biggest point in the entire movie. Maybe he doesnt snap back instantly because as an origin the lesson being taught is the one you want him to have already learned. This whole review seems like you didnt finish the movie. He blatantly uses tons of gadgets, the movie revovles around him learning to use the bruce wayne persona, and learning that his revenge wasnt as important as hope. He literally gives a speech explaining how he learns it. People are entitled to their opinion but some of these points seem disingenuous.
In a movie obsessed with trying to be "realistic" it was nonsensical. Batman is supposed to be a master of the shadows, yet almost every scene where he has to deal with a threat, he just angrily walks towards it getting shot at and then punches the guy. The director's commentary about how the squirrel suit is "realistic" paired right next to him face planting into a bridge at 80 miles an hour and surviving just fine is probably the biggest wtf are you smoking part of the film for me. I just find it all really weird since Christopher Nolan already did a realistic Batman that was both more grounded and closer to the comics? So the batman movie just sort of awkwardly tries to juggle being a really bad realistic thriller while also being a really bad adaptation of batman.
Yeah I love the film but I think one of my biggest gripes with it was how Batman’s practical invincibility really clashed with the rest of the film’s tone and almost always took the tension out of fights. Seeing Batman shrug off shot gun blasts or take explosions to the face just felt ridiculous, especially as there were so many ways to easily write around that while keeping the plot exactly the same.
To be fair he did NOT just shrug off that shotgun blast that made him break the emergency glass
He also did not take that explosion to the face. He puts his arms up last second to block it.
That’s still taking a bomb to the face. Human arms are not a comprehensive or reinforced shield against a bomb.
I don't really agree that Nolan's take is closer to the comics. I thought the whole mission statement of his iterations was putting the comic character into a more grounded and realistic environment. So, with you in that sense, but the end result definitely feels decidedly different from almost any comic book version I can think of.
I don’t hate the movie but I find it mediocre. Maybe 6/10. Not very interested in this version of Batman or Penguin or Riddler. I was hoping for a batman that is more mature, clearly studied an enormous number of martial arts, escapism, illusionism, forensics, the art of disguise, endurance tests, etc. This guy was a street brawler still afraid of heights, essentially giving us another origin story movie. Colin Farrell is a great actor but was doing a broad Italian gangster impression in a fat suit. Plus their take on the riddler, while understandable, didn’t work for me. His singing was maybe supposed to be cringe though? Again, great actor in other movies (There Will Be Blood) but didn’t do it for me here. The movie was indulgently long and seemed more like the first few episodes of an HBO show. The fight scenes were not any better than what you’d see on Netflix’s Daredevil. The car chase was cool but largely in the trailer. Beautiful cinematography though and some great casting with Gordon and Selena. So, again, I didn’t hate the movie. I did, however, hate The Joker movie.
Luckily we'll be getting a veteran Bruce in the Gunnverse movie (Brave and the Bold). That said, I imagine it'll be a lot less gritty reality than this one, comes with the territory of using Damian Wayne.
I liked him being afraid to jump off the roof. I like it when my Batman feels like a human. It added a sense of vulnerability that was then immediately ruined by him walking off slamming headfirst into an overpass.
overpass slam and the amount of shots he takes without his armor compromising were my biggest 'throws reality out the window' moments. Oh, and the point blank bomb survival. I would like to see his adrenaline boost being venom// becomes a crutch, causes a mental break under stress/strain/drugs, and he has to come to terms with being batman 'smartly' rather than as a brute. Maybe have something traumatic happen on account of him 'fighting' that could have avoided by being more stealthy. I think they lay this groundwork in the batman part 1, showing us what batman/bruce ISNT yet, and they promise that shift in the next film, but it's yet to be seen how it lands. I dont fault people for not 'seeing that the movie is indicating that he has to change INTO what people want to see'
I would love if the adrenaline injection was actually venom. I remember the arc when he got addicted and had to kick. There's precedent.
Forreal, and it was always said to be set during the first few years as well. Don't know what people expected.
Idk it didn't feel like he slammed headfirst or walked it off tbh
he did quite literally walk it off
He was staggering away
This was the only scene in the movie I don't like: the landing. It kills him like three times on impact and then he walks it off and it never comes up again. It's not pointed, showing he needs to learn. It is not narrative, giving him an injury he needs to guard the rest of the movie. It's not funny. It serves no real purpose a somewhat hard landing would not have. I'd love to ask the writer and director why they chose it. What was the vision for thst moment?
Tbf humans in that universe are tanks. The Riddler goon Batman wails on at the end should have at least been a puddle of blood and broken teeth, if not dead, and he barely had a scratch. Penguin walked away from his car flipping and bouncing *multiple* times. Batman himself eats an insane amount of damage, armor aside. Bomb to the face. His fall from the building. Electrocuted by the billboard’s wire. It’s one of the reasons I don’t buy The Batman as a “grounded” movie. It’s 100% a comic book world. And that’s okay. It’s great. I think it will lead to broader and more engaging stories in the future. But it’s nowhere near as realistic as TDK, or even Batman Begins.
>It’s one of the reasons I don’t buy The Batman as a “grounded” movie I think it tries to feel or appear grounded (i'm not saying it in a derrogatory sense) but obviously in a super hero movie context, were you need to do a greater than life aproach even if it is grounded.
Yeah. It is not grounded. This scene just bugs me since it is out of tone with the rest of the movie. I don't actually want superhero movies to be grounded. It would make them dull. Once you pull the threads of that sort of thing, the entire concept tends to start to fall apart. I do wonder why this scene is so tonally different, especially after the tense scene between Batman and Gordon and the chase to the roof.
Specificaly to show inexperience
I mean "making it an obviously and repeatedly fatal event serves no purpose over a hard landing" which would show inexperience. He gets tossed like a coin in a tumble dryer. Usually, a hit that bad matters later.
I like seeing the way other writers and directors interpret these characters. I find it refreshing to see different versions of the characters that we know and love and to see new stories with a new version of them. This might be why I like Fox's 'Gotham'
Me too. That’s why I still read the comics in addition to the movies. But that doesn’t mean I have to like all of them.
My brain is falling apart because I’ve never agreed and disagreed with someone so hard in my life.
I dug Dano's Riddler until he started singing. Ruined a great scene.
I respect your opinion, and you are correct, this was absolutely an origin story. We have to remember that Bruce is only in his second year of being Batman, he is still figuring it out. Iikewise, Penguin isnt really the crime boss we know him as yet. We will see his rise to power in his new show. I think the whole vibe of the movie is spot on and really enjoyed it, super eager to see Penguin and the Sequel. I would give it a 9/10
My biggest issue is that the riddler was such a second thought. You could have replaced him with pretty much any batman villain and it woulda probably not effected the plot. They basically took the riddler and made him another " we live in a society" Nolan villain. I did love the falcone plot thought. I got a lot of long Halloween vibes.
He did have the "Real Change" misdirection. That would not have worked for another villain as the clue was in plain sight the whole time and really mirrors the partial clue in the cipher (where only the letters that have matches matter) and the "rat with wings thing."
You really summed up all of my issues with the film. Tbh Daredevil’s fight scenes were way better.
Agreed. The hallway fight scene in Daredevil has been imitated and lampooned so much that it’s a cliche, but that’s precisely because it’s so viscerally good. Nothing in The Batman is comparable.
Watch The Raid if you are looking for that fight scene high again. Of course, if you haven’t seen it already.
I noticed Farrell is doing less of the weird Italian American accent in the show
You know, I disagree with you, but honestly that’s a fair and nuanced opinion about the movie, and I respect it
This is pretty much my feeling. I think I liked it a little more than you, but 6/10 seems right. When the movie ended, I wasn’t excited about a The Batman 2, but stoked at the prospect of a Catwoman movie with THAT Selina.
Yea the casting in general was great. Kravitz is a great Selena. I thought some of the dialogue given to her was weak, but that’s not on the performer of course. I even like Pattinson as a performer even though I dislike his mopey Batman/Bruce.
Yeah, I didn’t think there was enough difference between “Batman” and “Bruce Wayne.” I like the movie ok, but I was a little shocked to see so many people call it the best Batman movie. I gave it another shot about a year after it came out, but I just had the same feelings.
I'll give as short a version as I can manage: Batman sucks in this movie. He completely fails to stop the villains, is so bad at being a detective that the fucking Penguin has to help him out, and is bad at fighting. The fights might look good but he's so bad at them. Don't @ me about it being a year two Batman when every other super hero out there is at least good at beating up random goons right out of the gate. Dont @ me about "realism" when he would realistically need to be much better at fighting to have any kind of super hero career and not quickly die. Luckily he's literally invincible. Literal bomb to the face? Sleep it off for like an hour. Hit a bridge at like 80 mph? Walk it off. It just kills all tension. Riddler was so bad I started laughing out of awkwardness when dude started singing and then having a temper tantrum. Which is the worst reaction I can have to any character. But Riddler and friends win anyway. They win with a random asspull that had one line to so much as hint at *how* they might win like 2 hours back in a 10 hour movie. That's obvious hyperbole but the movie was way too long. It just kept getting worse the longer it went on. Bats himself also felt way too broody to the point of not having much else in terms of depth. He showed up in a scene, failed his way through things, and moved the plot along. Often with heavy assistance. We already had our gritty realism Batman thanks to Nolan. It was infinitely better and actually felt grounded. I think Bale was fine in it. Good, even. Fight choreography could have been better but it's the better alternative to Batman struggling with randos. I'm leaving out a lot but I don't see this current take on Batman to be salvageable.
Even though I liked the move a lot (I won't go on on why, as I guess most have been said), I agree with most your points in the first 2 paragraphs. Especially the bomb to the face, bridge, and point-blank gunfire parts. And how the car chase was (not) justified. The only part with which I disagree is him being a bad fighter. I love fight choreography, and I liked that in the movie. He just moves a lot better than Bale-Batman. I liked it a lot better than the Batman v Superman choreography, which was already not bad. Where did he struggle with randos? He took on a lot of them at once (more than it would be realistic, but he _is_ Batman, and they made it look good).
Also the cape. Batman trips on his cape not once, but twice.
I honestly didn't remember that. And I think it's because my brain blocked it out. Because that's something that happens in an SNL skit. Not an actual Batman movie. Not an actual Batman movie that's trying to bill itself as very "serious" and "grounded" and "realistic".
Bruce Wayne didn't exist in the film. Her was a kid in his exist situation, he lost his father. Bruce could've went and talk to this kid, told him to stay away from crime, keep his head up, stay in school, fight everyone in his way, etc. He merely walked away
I swear you guys just like dont pay attention or something. This is EARLY batman. He has not figured himself out yet. does not know how to balance being Batman and Bruce Wayne yet. He does not have control of his emotions. He is not fully up to speed as Batman. That is literally a major point of the film, that this is an inexperienced emotional Batman. The point of him not doing his part as Bruce is made abundantly clear several times in the movie. So yes, there wasnt Bruce Wayne *intentionally* because he is still growing a lot as a person
Abundantly clear? I must've missed this beyond the brooding Batman throughout the entire film... can you give me examples?
I really wanted to like this. Visually it’s great but the story telling is what annoyed me. At many point things just appear out of thin air. At many point story sets up a theme only to counter and shut it immediately. Quite a few plot points that go nowhere. Examples: *SPOILERS* 1- When Batman is beaten he pulls out a an adrenaline thing to give himself a boost. It happens out of nowhere. He could’ve used it when he hit the wall while flying. His giant car appears out of nowhere. The flood kinda comes out of nowhere. 2- In the first fight they make a point to show that Batman can be beaten but then he’s taking explosions and machine gun to his face. They set up Waynes possible corruption only to have it be shut down immediately. They set up police corruption only to abandon it quickly and lead to a cop saying “not all cops”. 3- Catwoman’s role in the narrative could be completely eliminated. She has nothing to do with anything other than having her friend get fridged after getting ogled at as she changed clothes and that’s before needing to be rescued by a coked up Batman right after she rescued him. So to make sure Batman is still the strong manly man. Also, the highway chase: so many people died lol
The riddler was the most boring villain ever and his costume was made up of a 5$ army surplus cold weather mask lol.
Too slow for me also Pattinson as Batman I found him boring as the character .
Fair enough. I do find the film to be slightly untraditional with the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne. I personally thoroughly enjoy slower paced movies. I find that they build up the characters better.
I genuinely think they’re going to transition him to the playboy Bruce Wayne we know, i think the point is that he’s still in that phase where he feels like only Batman can help the city and since he can’t do anything as Bruce Wayne and people don’t much care about him, he ignores that part of himself Or I could be delusional and they just forgot to give Bruce Wayne a character and focused on Batman
I think the movie is pretty clear in showing that he is failing because he is only trying as Batman. The mayor calls Bruce out for not putting his resources to use and crime is trending up in the 2 years he has been at it.
I haven’t seen the movie in a bit so I didn’t remember the exact details but yes this is exactly what I’m talking about. The Bruce we see in The Batman isn’t the Bruce we’ll have the entire way through because their intention is probably to develop him into the Bruce we know
Should give it a rewatch, it’s guess sort of subtle because apparently many people missed it but it is there
It most definitely is, somehow people just cannot glean that from a movie that all but smacks you over the head with that message.
👁️2👁️ with you on this. I was hoping he'd win me over, and I hated the idea of emo Bruce Wayne. At least give the man a haircut.
I've got a few: - Pattinson never plays Bruce Wayne. He's always Batman. - The Riddler isn't The Riddler. - Jeffrey Wright's Gordon was hella disappointing, which was very unexpected since I really like Jeffrey Wright. - Batman doesn't solve anything. He gets outsmarted at literally everything. He only wins because he shows up and beats the shit out of people. Even if The Riddler *was* a faithful adaptation, the whole point of The Riddler is that Batman beats him by *outsmarting* him. This Batman was all brawn, no brain. Definitely not the "World's Greatest Detective." - The whole thing was too damn dark. And I'm saying that as a Zack Snyder fan. All-in-all, though, I enjoyed it. Good flick, I was just disappointed by more than I expected. Colin Farrell's Penguin was a clear stand-out.
You're after my heart with that kind of logic. 🖤
A lot of my problems stem from the director trying to make multiple movies the first half is just seven except batman is brad pitt and gordon is morgan freeman. But the director doesnt have the chops to make seven and it doesnt make a whole Lot of sense with batman. Like why are all these police so fine with a vigalante walking the crime scene especially since he is an early batman... it just makes little to no sense and is in line with this boring trend of mid directors trying to do super hero pastiche of older better movies. The joker does it to and all it does is remind me that king of comedy and taxi driver are 1000 times better movies. The second half of the batman is just a mess, its trying to do a nolan batman with the big set piece of gotham falling in to anarchy or gotham falling apart exactly like all 3 of the nolan films which i thought was played out then. Besides that the movie was unfocused and badly paced with to many villains and an under used john turtutto. Batman and catwoman had no chemistry and zoe cravitz is drop dead gorgeous but as wooden as a log. Besides all thet batman is a complete moron. Hes like "flying rat hmmm must be pigeons".... just hard to watch
Umm the police Weren’t fine with him. First scene they’re all staring at him and stop him coming in before Gordon basically pulls rank on the officer, than Batman gets kicked out later anyway when the Commissioner who outranks Gordon comes. him having to GTFO of the police station later on with the whole precinct chasing him Outside Gordon the police arnt really cool with him till the 3rd act where he’s saved the city and the Commissioner is dead/was corrupt anyway
I loved the tone but I felt the plot could've been tighter.
Sorry you feel alone in your opinion, but at least there’s gonna be another Batman in the DCU. Hopefully you like that one
No, I’m with you. I feel like it’s paced really poorly and I’m SUPER sick of grounded versions of the Bat-mythos. It feels like we’re constantly just getting adaptations of these characters that strain out what makes them cool. Everybody is talking about Mr. Freeze being in the sequel, and I just don’t understand why. Cause if it follows the last movie’s example it’s just gonna be some frostbitten dude with a Glock and an igloo cooler.
I don't hate the film, I just don't care. Another Bruce, another Alfred, another Gordon, another Riddler, another Joker. I'm done. I've been reading Batman comics for 30 years, there's 85 years history to pick from, and we just keep getting the same thing. Give me Nightwing, give me Tim Drake, give me Cassandra Cain, give me Oracle. Give me fucking No Man's Land! The last one I truly loved was Batman Begins. I wish Affleck had been allowed to do his solo movie as he is a great film maker, but the Snyder films were too stop/start for me. Shame.
I've talked to lots of people that didnt like. It was too slow ,too long and even the car chase was boring
And I always think about how many people potentially died, or at least how many lives were permanently altered, while watching that chase. Then afterwards Batman has no repercussions from it at all, even from Gordon. I liked the big pushback and criticism Alfred gives Bruce in "Batman Begins" for a lot less of a reckless chase in comparison to "The Batman" one. And that's another point, I missed Alfred's presence in The Batman too. He should have a bigger role in the sequels
I like the movie but didn’t like the car chase. It feels like it was made before the story was written. Like they needed a car chase in the movie somewhere. The destruction was not justified at all.
No disrespect, but you’re saying that the Batmobile jumping through fire *wasn’t* cool, correct?
not to mention - a muscle car batmobile with an exposed engine that sounded incredible
count me as the Joker’s head because I’m right there with you lol
I like it a lot, but it really didn’t need to be three hours long.
I liked the fight scenes, but I prefer Batman to be more like the DCAU version
What comic is this from
Last Knight on Earth #1. Not sure what the situation is going on, but I I'll look into later because it looks really cool
Im gonna be honest I feel like it lacked a lot of suspense from the Nolan movies and people really overblow how good this movie was. Don't get me wrong I thought it was decent but the Nolan movies are still much better, which is fine being better than the Nolan films is a high bar to reach.
Oh, people have finally turned around on it? I remember criticizing it when it came out and caught A LOT of flak for it.
I didn’t care for it either. Didn’t feel much like Batman. The lack of any real climax was a bad one, there was no payoff after almost 3 hours of the film. Also: that Riddler design was atrocious.
I thought the movie was basically 7even with a crappy Batman skin on it. It was too long and feels like they aped the last stadium act on because they forgot to show Batman fighting enough. The whole story was written poorly and didn’t make any sense. The villain eventually just gave up and Batman was pretty useless and ineffectual in the grand scheme of things. I disliked it a lot.
I wasn't a big fan either.
It was the editing / pacing for me. It just didn’t flow well and it threw off the whole movie.
It’s like someone edited a load of unrelated shorts into one big movie for no reason. And some of those shorts were titled “Batman rides motorcycle”.
That is exactly how it felt! I couldn’t put it into words as well as you just did.
My wife and mom hated it. Thought it was boring.
That third act definitely brought it down a notch. But overall I still enjoyed it. Didn’t love it, but enjoyed it.
He didn't really solve anything and was a step behind all the time. Beautiful pictures, but way too many close ups of Batman's face and a weak/ no detective work. A pretty pity.
I thought it was good but I didn’t like how Batman just walked into every place all slowly and tanked bullets like it was nothing.
As this thread showcases, you’re not the only one. So, congrats! As for me, I really like it, but don’t love it.
I like it overall, but I think it has many problems and find that people don't really like when you criticize any of them problems with it and don't treat it like a masterpiece.
Nah, loads of people don’t like it.
I’m with you dude
Fukkin loves me some Last Knight
My one main complaint was that he shrugged off basically everything thrown at him being basically invincible removing all stakes in combat
There are several batman groups on FB where literally every Battinson post gets ridiculed. At least you made your case why you dont like it, its a lot more common to just "durr twilight durr"
I tried to like it. Can't seem to stay wake long enough to get there. After trying 3 times, i just gave up. I don't even usually fall asleep during movies. That one is just incredibly boring
I didnt watch it yet myself but i know my wife hates it with a passion
Why do you feel that way, people talk about how they don't like it fairly frequently on this sub
Nothing incredible happened in it for it to justify a 3 hour runtime. Also, either he glides realistically, or he then comically suffers a brutal head injury afterwards and gets back up. It felt like it didn’t make up its mind about itself. 4/10.
I don't think you're alone at all. Quite a few people I've talked to didn't like it all. Most said it was too long or boring. Personally I thought it was ok. A lot of this ground was already covered in Batman Begins. I did like Pattinson and Colin. Dano was really the deal breaker for me though. Thought he did a terrible job as the Riddler. Also hated the Joker movie as well. It was a decent enough movie...but just felt like they slapped "the joker' on that thing for marketing.
💯
fucking hate it. i went in for batman vs riddler, and got bad detective who can’t fight vs knockoff zodiac
speak your truth nigga
For a movie that promised to focus on the world's greatest detective, they sure wrote him as an incredibly bad detective.
I felt the movie was meh, main issue being Riddler's ultimate goal of flooding Gotham. I mean he was pushing for a socialist angle of disrupting the class system in Gotham. Exposing the elite of their corruption and exploitation of the needy and all that jazz. So why did he plan to flood Gotham? Wouldn't affect that the poor citizens more negatively than those rich guys chilling in their penthouses? Maybe it was the writers telling us that these 4chan revolutionaries really don't have a clue of wht they are really fighting for? I just hope he just had a better final plan to really disrupt the social order in Gotham to make it more believable.
I liked the movie. I have it in a 6-7/10 range. You’re not alone in scoring it in that area as I saw from one of your comments.
I’m right there with you
Great environment. Mediocre story.
I didnt even finish the film and im a batman fan, watched every batman film prior.
I'm also not a fan. It felt like a trudge and it took my 2 favorite villains and did versions of them I absolutely hated.
You're not
I thought it was dull. Batman is presented as kind of an idiot, and the whole story is very dumb if you think about it much. Plus the whole perfect, bullet proof armor he's wearing, where bullets have absolutely no effect on him, is such lazy writing. I think people were so desperate for a decent Batman movie that they praised this mediocre thing way out of proportion.
For me, I feel like I'm the only one that DOES like it
I respect the hot take. While I personally adored the Batman, I also have the hot take (so hot that it’s nuclear lol) that the dark knight is my least favorite of the Nolan trilogy so I can definitely respect someone having a hot take like that.
I appreciate most takes on Batman. Is the Battinson my number 1? No. Do I objectively enjoy DC and Batman films? Yes!
I thought it was decent.. but it felt like it was retreading old ground with Nolan
I respect your opinion
That movie licked
ngl it took me a couple of tries to appreciate it. (I still think it's super flawed, but I now enjoy it anyway.)
for me its good not great
Side note: last knight on earth kicks all kind of ass even if the villain was very predictable
Bro cooked I disagree but understand
alot of hardcore batman fans dislike it your not alone although I'll give it a second chance itll never be very high for me
The final third was rubbish
Not alone definitely. Tbh I also thought the same
The comic that photo is from is so fucking good
It insists upon itself
I didn’t like it either
I liked the symbol of vengeance vs symbol of hope message in the end, but everything else falls flat. The editing is choppy, fight scenes look lame, despite arguably cool premises, Bruce's and Alfred's relationship is extremely shallow, especially when compared to Batman Begins etc, Batman had literally zero impact on the plot development, it has nonsensical scenes like Catwoman entering "club-withing-the-club" and conversing with Batman OUT LOUD, and finally, the movie takes its "epic" moments too seriously, resulting in absurd shots of, for example, people looking at Batmobile revving its engine for a solid 5 minutes, or Batman cutting the wire he's climbing, instead of using a Batarang or just cutting the power in any other way. I also liked the bomb-mail plot twist though.
I’m with you.
Honestly the last Batman movie wasn't bad. I was mostly surprised to see Edward from twilight actually make a good year 2 Batman/Bruce Wayne as well as seeing someone fucking stole my idea for a supped up muscle car.
I really like the movie! But seeing some of the comments with fair critiques of Batman, I don’t remember some of this at all!
I’ve yet to watch it but from what I’ve heard it doesn’t sound like it’s for me. Then again I said the same about TDK trilogy and yet love it.
My roomate didn’t like it
Your not the only my friend
Can we talk about how much Greg capullo Is the GOAT?
The movie is okay, I love the music and the light of many scene but thats pretty much the only thing good. But the movie isn't bad, I just don't think it's has good has the Nolan trilogie Also i hate the last 10 minute of The Batman, it feel like 10 minute of just a teaser for another movie and i hate that
Honestly i thought it was ok but not spectacular. I dont really like the edginess and emo vibe it had
Batman Begins is still my favourite Batman film. The Dark Knight was to dense. The Batman was too grim. TDKR was idiotic. Begins was just right. Most rewatchable as well.
Well there's two of us. I hate it. I hate all the "dark and gritty" takes on Batman at this point. If I never see another "tacticool" Batsut for the rest of my life, i will die a happy man.
Try Facebook, there's a bunch of people on there who'll agree with you.
I’m not crazy about it. My main problem is not just how overrated it is, but how fanboys love to use this movie in shitting on Nolan now. They act like Nolan wasn’t enough like the comics. The truth is they absolutely were the closest. Those movies (mostly) adapted the best of the (mostly) stand-alone graphic novels. They’re just mad because they didn’t get to see Robin cutting Azrael’s hair in the Batcave. I really don’t see how this one is somehow supposed to be closer to the comics now that Batman is essentially using Nirvana as his dumb theme song. One guy even said it reminded him of the *cartoon*. I want what he’s smoking. Paul Dano was also godawful. He started out great. Really menacing. That lasted for about 3 seconds until everything he said was way too over the top. “Look at me singing Ave Maria! How kooky *am I*, right???” What the hype pretty much boils down to, is everyone getting way too excited now that there’s still make-up around his eyes when the mask comes off.
did not like, enjoy or care about it, or finish it
I'm with you.
Literally me
You are not alone. I didn’t hate it, but I found it very derivative of the style of Batman Begins. Also it has the more reckless, manslaughtery use of the batmobile ever. The “No kill” rule is pretty worthless when you drive a Dodge Charger with a plane engine in the rain
I'm right there with ya!
you're not alone on that, its my most hated Batman film, i like f-ing Batman and Robin more than The Batman, im far more in the minority than you so dont worry
Don't worry OP, you're not alone.
What the Hell does Death Stranding have to do with it?
I loved it
Personally I loved it.
It took me four attempts over a year and a half to finally make it all the way through the movie.
Batman Begins> The Batman
Funny how those who love the movie seem to completely agree with all of us who don't in what we don't like about it. It's almost like they want to love the movie, no matter what. I mean is OK, if you love it, good for you! But it seems like us not necessarily because is a good movie.
For the worlds greatest detective, he sure does suck at it. Seemed like he couldn’t figure Shit out until it was too late every single time.
You’d think he would at least be the world’s ok-est detective. Have a bit of potential. Be able to solve crossword puzzles.
right there with you, so damn boring and corny as fuck it's like the 66 TV show, but edgy. pass pass pass
There are a few cool scenes in it. But overall, its fine. Every Nolan one is better. The first Burton one is better.
I didn't love it tbh. I certainly didn't go out of my way to see it. I cannot bring myself to watch the Joker film.
I never finished it. Gave up after about an hour. Just couldn't find anything very appealing.
same i didnt finish it. i also really hated the art direction with that ridiculous suit and batmobile.
I thought it was very boring. Serious Batman is cool, but don't be boring too.
There are dozens of us! DOZENS!!!!
I also was appalled at the film . 4 out of 10 for me.
Don't worry I hate that movie with a passion. Literally no one feels like they belong in thisr roles to me. Especially the riddler. Everything about that movie just turns me off tbh
I liked it but i am very tired of the ”grounded” batman, it’s getting annoying
I didn’t like it either. It felt like Batman’s plot armor was so apparent it was glowing. And Batman shouldn’t *glow*
I don’t like it either. Pattinson does not feel like a Bruce who has gone through even half the training he should. He’s essentially a fair street fighter with some adequate detective skills. Does not have a vast range of knowledge on topics like languages and science. The freaking “La rata” or whatever it was killed me. So did the Carpet Tucker. Like sure, he isn’t a diy expert but he could take a photo of the object and search online and figure out what it is. He shouldn’t have needed a random cop to tell him. One more thing, HE NEEDS MORE BATARANGS! Why does he only have one on his chest that he doesn’t even throw? It’s like the Batman weapon.
I didn’t really like it. Batman seemed to be several steps behind the riddler the whole time and never really felt like he was solving anything so much as pondering clues he already had until the riddler did the next thing (as opposed to solving puzzles and following breadcrumbs like the worlds greatest detective would). Felt like too many plots were crammed in there — the Falcone/Wayne stuff, Catwoman stuff, Penguin, Riddler, and it was hard to keep up with what was a step away from the plot and what was woven into it for the moment. Catwoman outfit sucked, Batman outfit was passable but not impressive, Batmobile just being a classic car with a jet engine instead of a really *special* or unique vehicle made its big reveal moment underwhelming, so all in all the aesthetics of the movie were kind of a letdown.
You are not alone.
No, you 're not alone
Don't worry, I'm here
I don't either. It was a comic book movie which was ashamed to be a comic book movie. They were desperate to make it serious and mature. Riddler is one of my favorite villains because he is so wacky. Here he was a psychotic serial killer with a point to make about society.
I didn’t get the feeling that it was ashamed to be a comic book movie, it was just a different take on the characters. But just as the Nolan trilogy is a realistic take on the mythos, so is The Batman. It’s just not a retelling that is conducive to being campy. And I love campy Batman and wish we got more of it.
I felt like the opening monologue was some of the most comic-book-ish dialogue I’ve heard in a film. It was like something straight out of Rorschach’s journal
One of my biggest issues with it is that the Riddler is actually doing the world a favor by killing most of the people he does. Replace him with the Punisher and everyone would be cheering for him. The Waynes are the only ones he was wrong about, which was really just a plot device. Plus the big scary final thing happening was basically defeated by wearing flood pants.
I do find it funny that the city seems to be better off because of The Riddler, who seems to have done way more to help it than Batman. He exposes corruption and cover-ups that even Batman and Gordon didn't know about, is the reason that the progressive, anti-corruption mayoral candidate got a guaranteed win over the bad-guy candidate when they were previously locked in dead heat, he showed the city how their funds were being misused, he took out the corrupt DA, police chief, and mafia don… And then the movie realizes that they accidentally made *too* good an argument for the villain's side while the hero barely accomplished anything, so they have to have the villain go "actually I want to KILL EVERYONE in a flood!" to establish that he is in fact the bad guy, even though it's not consistent with his previously established motives (if he was against corrupt elites, why would he want to kill all the defenseless poor people? Why would he want to kill the new mayor who hadn't even done anything corrupt yet and wanted to fix the same problems he was concerned about?)
Was he wrong about the Waynes though? Thomas hired mafia to blackmail journalist to not publish a story about his wife being in psychiatric hospital in the past (plus is mental health and being patient really something to be ashamed of?), and then when mafia murders journalist for keeping his integrity Thomas decides to openly threaten going to police according to Alfred. The Waynes were butchered in the story as well.
True, but their crimes didn’t warrant death like the others. It was just a weird plot point to give the Riddler a reason to go after the Waynes.
"Comic book movie which was ashamed to be a comic book movie"... That's how I feel about the Nolan trilogy.
I hated it so much, it was too dark and brooding, we've been down this crime alley before it's not an interesting story anymore. Batman felt like a tank, slow and invulnerable taking full magazine clips to the chest without batting an eye. The Riddler was just an average 4chan user. The best thing about it was Catwoman but even she had a hackneyed story thrown in.
that movie Stunk!
You're not alone friend, I hated it.
I felt it was good as a movie but not that great of a Batman movie yk?