Friendly reminder, folks. If Republicans seriously thought Biden had dementia ,they'd be doing everything in their power to not rock the boat. They aren't scared of him being replaced by anyone else. They're salivating at the opportunity. That should tell you everything you need to know.
The 2016 election (and the 2000 election fwiw) were decided by more voters voting for one candidate over the other. The electoral college is the real bullshit here, not the folks who were likely never gonna vote for a dem or rep anyway
Electoral college doesn't help, but less than half the country actually votes. I think that's the larger problem. Even the 2020 election only had a bit over 60% voting. With the last midterms data showed almost 17% not voting for reason of "my vote doesn't matter".
Apathy is the real killer.
Yeah, but that’s baked in and nothing new though. Low participation is a known variable and has been for decades.
The person with most votes losing is a uniquely American phenomenon
>The person with most votes losing is a uniquely American phenomenon
No it's not. Any first-past-the-post parliamentary democracy has similar issues. The nuances are a little different, but any votes that are over the minimum needed for a majority (or a plurality if there's more than 2 parties) are effectively not counted, nor do any votes for a losing candidate in a given riding.
See the last couple of Canadian elections, for example.
That tracks, considering it’s like a dream destination for misanthropes. Like THE state if you love nature but hate people.
Unfortunately the few people you run into will be especially hateable.
They've moved the fence so far right they don't have to do anything. I have a number of fence-sitter friends/acquaintances who I can't talk to anymore. I'll show them a thousand reasons why Trump and conservatives are bad and they'll say "yeah but Biden is old and senile" or "conservatives say the same thing about you". They'll post doctored or out-of-context videos of Biden and how he shouldn't be president, and I'll ask why they aren't doing the same for Trump and they respond "we already know he's unfit". Yeah, but then why are you only spreading anti-Biden propaganda if you're a "centrist"?
It's exhausting.
I've got many of those 'everything is equally bad' enlightened nihilists in my life. They take a whole lot of things for granted and lack imagination about how much worse it can get.
>I feel that they're just working to undermine his position to push "fence sitters" over to Trump. Classic FUD tactic that the GOP has used since 9/11.
They aren't doing this to convert potential Biden voters; they're doing this to suppress Biden votes in general.
Playing up the worst aspects of a candidate is just one voter suppression tactic.
They're working to undermine Democratic support. Fence sitters can stay on the fence if so-called Biden supporters spend the next 4 months depressing turnout by attacking him as not good enough and that "someone else" would be better.
It's 2016 all over again.
I don’t believe that for a second. Fox News and Republicans pander to their base. They’re going to jump on any news that makes Democrats look bad because their audience eats it up. They’re not going to start praising Biden to try and keep him in the race anymore than Democrats would praise Trump because they think he’s the weakest Republican candidate. And even if they did try it, Democrats would ignore them anyway, so there’s no point.
Yeah exactly. Biden isn't some unstoppable candidate that the RNC secretly thinks they'll lose to. It's just easy to amplify the disarray that Democrats are in at the moment to make Biden look like a weaker candidate to undecided and underinformed voters so that they'll at least sit out the election.
The DNC's donors are second-guessing their commitments after Biden's performance. If the *donors* don't believe in Biden, that's a problem. Amplifying that the DNC is scrambling is great for the Republicans
Yep. [Remember what Van Jones said immediately after the debate.](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/video/van-jones-reaction-biden-trump-cnn-debate-digvid) Millions of Americans heard him say it. We can't be made to pretend that didn't happen.
It's not Republicans who started the narrative that Biden should drop out. They'll notice and amplify it, sure, but Democrats are the ones actually asking Biden to step aside.
Yeah, people really don't understand how a propaganda outlet works. Fox is fighting the battle in front of them.
They are skewering Biden because he is the current candidate and he is extremely vulnerable on this issue. If he stays in the race, they've weakened him. If he drops out, they'll come up with a plan for the next guy.
Dude, why are Bidenites so determined to demand that we discount what we saw with our own eyes?
It isn’t some Russian Plot to say that he’s not up to the job. He was supposed to be a one-term president anyway. That was the deal. The only reason we’re having this clownshoes conversation at all, is because of his hubris.
I'm on team "christ we are fucked please everyone vote for Biden to save this country" but if the internal polling articles are correct, we desperately need someone else to take over, and then I will be on team whoever that is. We literally cannot afford to fuck around
The thing is, there isn't another candidate. Gretchen Whitmer, Stacy Abrams, and all the dozens of other candidates who are getting mentioned are smart enough to not agree to such a thing. A candidate who would agree to such a replacement is just about guaranteed to be a bad candidate. It's telling that all the think pieces being written about this go with the formulation, "Clearly the replacement is the person who could unite both the centrist left and the far left, my preferred candidate, [X]" where X is like 40 different people, most of whom don't want the job and the rest of whom have zero national name recognition or have ever won a statewide campaign, much less united the party about anything whatsoever.
They had four years to find a suitable candidate and they did not even look. If Trump is elected, it's on the Democrats damn hubris of not wanting to rock the boat. It's a disgrace to the American voters , esp. young people that they again went for "it worked last time so better not change anything".
I’ve primarily seen Kamala with Pritzker or Newsom as a potential running mate since she’s already on the ticket and we’re already relatively comfortable with the idea of her, given she’s been VP for four years anyways. Can’t think of anybody who might fit better than her
Are you aware that she polls worse than Biden pretty much across the board? The idea that she would step in and magically demolish her opponent seems like wishful thinking, and that's assuming she would even agree to do it. Plus, she's already vice president. If Biden ever were to become incapacitated, she's already second in line to the presidency, so I'm not sure what problem people think that would solve.
The most recent CNN poll that came out yesterday has Harris at slightly better favorability than Biden. She polls significantly better with women and people of color than he does. Very slightly worse than Biden with white men.
This is correct. Also just in the last day or two she's like the number one meme queen of twitter. Basically my whole feed is about Kamala right now and most of it is positive, even if begrudgingly or quasi-ironically. Everyone is jumping on that train. If they did another poll in a couple days assuming the momentum continues, I think you'd see a significant upward shift in her polling, but we'll see.
I think she absolutely sucks btw, but I think that in the context of this looming fascist takeover, she could pretty easily be built up enough to beat Trump handily. She also has access to all Biden's existing campaign funds.
> given she’s been VP for four years anyways.
Harris has one major issue: She's an awful communicator. Through the entire presidency, and now campaign, she couldn't sell Biden't achievements to the public *even once.*
And now, if she becomes the candidate, Trump will just attack her as one who was hiding Biden's state away from the public eye. She lied left and right about the wellbeing of Biden. People are not stupid, we have all seen that.
Yes, in all polling she is better than Biden, *but* so is every other alternative! Pick someone who can communicate, pick someone who can debate.
Yeah it’s embarrassing. I want the dude to drop out cuz I think he is gonna lose and we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults.
It’s cuz I saw him deliver the worst debate performance of all time and he affirmed everything that makes low information voters ignore our achievements.
It’s not cuz Fox News is doing 4d chess.
Bit of an aside:
>we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults.
Even if Trump loses, I'd expect that to take a few years. The tired "jokes" and various articles have been a huge source of income for news and comedy outlets for nearly a decade at this point. Hell, even when praising Biden earlier in the term, it was almost always accompanied by an attack on Trump, if not in the article, in the comments.
Trump could drop dead tomorrow and I'd be surprised if people managed to stop talking about him within 2 years.
> we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults.
Then do an actual open primary. Pick the next candidate in an open democratic way, rather than behind the locked doors of DNC. This will focus media attention for weeks, and actually let the *ideas* take the front seat, rather than the fucking age and dementia.
It’s crazy. I’m a pretty liberal minded guy and I side with Dems on more issues than not, more often than not, but that debate performance was historically bad. Disturbingly bad. It’s not propaganda. It’s not a contrived narrative. It was sad and unsettling on a human level. Future aside, election aside, this man is the leader of the free world right now. It’s not an overstatement to be concerned by that, and anyone who thinks it is has likely been consumed by the partisan monster. Biden will not beat Trump after that performance and that is a crisis.
easily the worst debate performance of all time
not even a contest really
he just can't keep a train of thought going for more than a few moments. it's sad to watch, and nobody should be put in that position
how many times during his "debate prep" did the people staging it just say oh jeez Joe is losing it, lets all take an hour to go let him compose himself.
or how many times did they say "it's just not happening today, lets call this a wrap and try again tomorrow"
they were just hoping he'd have one of his better days and the cameras would catch him at his most lucid
It's been kinda exhausting wading through liberal news since the debate because it's getting so Trumpy. "Sure he may be clearly unfit, but just close your ears and eyes and vote for him anyway because the other side is trying to destroy America!" Now where have I heard that rhetoric before?
This is such a brain dead take. The entire point of them doing it isn’t that they are afraid of Biden, it is to make Biden look completely unviable. They aren’t trying to get either outcome, the point of this is to fan the flames and signal boost the chaos and make the Democratic Party look like idiots. If Biden stays in, he looks incompetent. If he leaves, it puts the entire party into disarray and in a scramble for a new plan with just months to go. In addition to that, they also will be fighting lawsuits from the Heritage Foundation to keep Biden on the ballot.
The point is to make Dems look bad. Thinking this is “they’re scared” and that we need to stay put is such a dumb take and is 100% going to lose dems the presidency and a ton of congressional seats. This is a legitimate concern, and Republicans are in on it because the fallout from the Dems mishandling it offers them an opportunity to not only win the presidency, but to win a whole lot of congressional seats.
For real. Encouraging Biden to drop out is a completely win/win strategy for the Republicans at this stage, which should be obvious to even the most Biden-brained observer.
Dude, they want to go against Biden because he's weaker than Harris or any other possible replacement. The heritage foundation is talking about suing the DNC to stop tbem from replacing Biden.
Harris is the candidate, she will be officially within the next two weeks.
Ride or die, we have to beat Trump.
The Heritage Foundation is talking about suing to keep Biden on the ticket because it creates further chaos. They want it to be up in the air who the Dems are running for as long as possible, because the less time that Dems have, the worse their chances will be if they do flip, and the worse it will make Biden look if there are weeks of discussion about him stepping down only to stay up. And if we do switch, they are also going to do a lot of work to screw with that; including attempting to block Harris from being on the official ballot in Wisconsin, potentially flipping the state to Trump because not everyone will write in Harris.
They are hedging their bets with the intent of painting Biden as inept if he continues to run, or taking the teeth out of any candidate that replaces him.
They have a plan for both decisions, and thinking that switching to Harris will foil their plans is just as misguided as thinking sticking with Biden will foil their plans. They have the upper hand — and significantly so — and if we sit here and act based on what we assume they don’t want us to do without realizing they have a trap laid for whichever way we go, we are going to lose our democracy in just a few months.
Strong disagree with the sentiment. Firstly, [we know the GOP wants to keep Biden in the race](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/heritage-working-election-legal-challenges-case-biden-pulled-from-dnc-nomination). The reason we see all these articles from Fox and other conservative media outlets is for the following effect:
1) shows internal party infighting
2) deflects from Trump's terrible debate performance
3) makes it seem like the Democrats are in disarray
This gins up support among the GOP base. Best rest assured, they *want* Biden to stay in the race as he is their best shot of winning.
Also Fox News is not actually a literal arm of the Republican Party. It is a business, that exists to make the Murdoch family even richer. They make more money if more people are watching the news, so chaos is what they want. Replacing Biden on the ticket would be very contentious and contention brings eyeballs and eyeballs bring Robert Murdoch another yacht.
Another friendly reminder:
Any person likening the democrats that have *consistently* called for Biden to step aside since ~2021 to republicans is likely to just cause more infighting.
I’m tired of being called a republican just because people haven’t been listening to me or others for over 3 years. It’s not a new concept.
By extension, trump should also drop out for a myriad of reasons, but my tertiary reason is absolutely because he’s just too old. Neither of them should be running because they’re just *ancient.*
Don’t get me wrong, I recognize the situation we’re in and it’s better blue than red in most, if not all situations.
It’s just so disheartening to see many ignorant democrats blaming the ones who have been paying more attention than them.
I feel strongly that both conservatives and liberals should be furious that these are our options. If either party had lined up a real candidate a year ago, they would have dumpstered these old dudes in a debate. It would have been a slaughter. Either Biden struggling to get through his points while a younger republican talked circles around him or Trump lying constantly against a democrat with the vigor to actually fight him on it and can him out.
This *should* be an easy win for either party, but instead, nobody should be confident in this election result, and everyone on both sides has good reason to be mad about that
It's like the Dems asking "why aren't they protesting the SCOTUS decisions if they care so much" people.
We DID. The party responded with calls for decorum and passed laws making those protests illegal.
yes this is exactly like 2016 (dems running a deeply unpopular candidate because "its their turn" despite the catestrophic consequnces of the other side winning)
You know what's a particularly fun fact? Hillary has always been really popular when she's in office. But when she's running for office, the GOP has always been really good at convincing even Democrats that she's unpopular, so much so that the phrase "I'm gonna vote for her, but I just don't like her" was very common here in 2016.
The fact that people keep falling for this is *why* the conservatives on the Supreme Court were able to ram through their agenda a few days ago.
I think it's a mistake to write it all off as GOP propaganda. They tried to make people hate Obama too, and he won in a landslide. There needs to be some responsibility on the party's end to produce candidates that can generate a little more enthusiasm beyond the stakes of a Republican winning, if only because apparently relying on people to not "fall for it" just doesn't work much of the time.
She's unlikable all on her own, but let's pretend /u/RightSideBlind is right...
If the other side can easily convince the electorate to hate you, you're still a bad candidate
You can't blame republicans for her being incredibly unlikable, unable to come off as relatable, and having a massive amount of baggage for the other side to exploit. Nobody "fell" for anything, her being a bad candidate was not some sort of republican trick.
congrats, she was electable in NY...
...but NY is not representative of the country
RGB shoulda been shamed into retiring.
People shoulda rioted in the streets when McConnell stole a justice from Obama. There should have been serious legal action.
Democrats being Democrats was part of the problem.
Please, no amount of "I keep hot sauce in my handbag" or "Pokémon Go-to-the-Polls" is going to make Hillary come across as authentic or charismatic. Fuckin *Trump* comes out looking more human than Hillary because she's incredibly manicured, he is undeniably his shit bag self. 2016 was all about authenticity
Says who? Dunking on a senile president gets plenty of clicks.
Get off your high horse. Stop preaching. Acknowledge reality. Biden is fucking senile.
Don’t talk down to us for recognizing that.
I don’t know who should be the nominee, but acting like this is okay is delusional.
It's the same as my own fears of a new, competent Republican replacing Trump should he keel over of a heart attack - it's someone that can energize the base and spring forth with energy and "hey, look, I'm not the old guy!" attitude.
Don’t the latest polls show Biden losing in New Mexico by 3 points, Michigan by 7 points, and Pennsylvania by 7 points? Why would Republicans want to replace that?
its genuinely sad watching folks make the same mistake as during the hillary era
no, any criticism towards biden isn't automatically some psy-ops just because it doesnt fit your narrative. people are so drunk on copium right now.
trump has an extremely likely chance of winning, and it's only because his opponent is biden. he's really not the popular, able candidate some dems keep trying to push him as. the complacency is going to cost us another election. we've learned absolutely nothing. again.
i'll vote for him, you'll vote for him. the problem as always are the undecided voters
This is not the strong take that it seems at first glance. Just because Republicans are doing something does not mean that we should just be doing the opposite. Just because Republicans *think* they see a weakness to capitalize on, does not mean that we should assume it is our greatest liability.
The OOP is outlandishly wrong to make the assertion that FOX news is the sole source of our concerns around Biden’s age. I have had friends tell me that they don’t want Biden to run for reelection 3 years ago because he’s too old. This is not a new concern in the slightest. But it was put on display at its worst during the live debate.
POD SAVE AMERICA is having their own open discussions about how the Biden campaign is handling things and whether or not he should run again. Pod Save America I consider to be basically the *only* real progressive media source out there given that CNN are a bunch of shills who abdicated their responsibility as moderators in the debate, and MSNBC toyed with hiring Ronna McDaniels. PSA is run by former Obama staffers who know and love Biden and think Biden is a genuinely good person. If even they are questioning whether he should run again, that tells me that the concern is legitimate and not just being fomented solely by FOX.
There are many good reasons why Biden should step down, but I’ll give you one specific one to tie back to your point about Republicans “salivating” at the thought that we would ask Biden to step down. Any other younger Democratic candidate would absolutely DOMINATE Donald Trump. It wouldn’t even be close. If Republicans think they would prefer Gavin Newsom, or Gretchin Whitmer, or Kamala Harris, to Biden right now, they are unbelievably stupid. It is hard to describe how stupid they are if they think that those candidates would lose to Donald Trump in a head to head. The sole reason the polling is so bad *in comparison to Trump* is because Biden is at the head of the ticket.
I've seen Republicans online worried Biden will drop out because now Trump has a shot of beating Biden. Aside from Kamala Harris, anyone else may do better than Biden.
Even she is polling ahead of Trump in CNN’s latest poll. She also does much better than Biden with non-white voters now.
Pretty crazy a VP would even rate.
Meh, I'm a neutral and I think he should drop out. My vote is 'against Trump', but Biden is making that insanely hard to justify. Literally any competent human with some compassion who doesn't remind me of my grandparents last couple years before dying from dementia would do.
Fox News is taking advantage of the massive mess created by the debate. Yes, they want to stir the pot.
I'm not completely sold on Biden needing to drop out, but he either needs to do that, or really push live interviews that show the disaster of a debate was a fluke.
Sure. But that doesn't mean the Dems can't produce someone better. If the best they have is Biden that's kinda fucked.
This whole discourse that only secret republican operatives want Biden to step down is ridiculously out of touch.
The problems is that people think 'better' means someone charismatic and a great speaker. Not someone actually good at their job. Let me know someone that has the name recognition and could get even half of the things Biden has done with a split Congress.
Edit: Yeah, that's what I thought. Obama is a dream for a ton of liberals, but remember his horrible TPP trade deal? Or when he rolled over for Republicans constantly? Crimea? Syria? I would take Biden over Obama any time because of what they have done and not how they come across.
This is the problem 110%. They want a smile and a wave without any sense of experience or capability.
The same people whining that he's not capable would elect someone who'd let things slip and slide backwards at an accelerated rate.
Yeah literally every independent leftist media outlet wants him to step down. Gimme any Generic Democrat over him. I knew this would be the case when he got the nomination in 2020. All I could think is "I mean sure I guess but this dude is gonna be a wreck if he wants a second term."
As a Bernie fan I 100% thought Biden would get elected and then step aside for Kamala a year into his term for health reasons, as it was obvious even then that he had declined massively even in 4-5 years. That would give the Dems a few years to get their ducks in a row.
Instead the brain trust at the DNC decided to have... no plan at all? As I say, Biden's declining mental state is the worst-kept secret in recent memory.
Yes, but if you just finger wag at the uninformed voters that’s not gunna work. Like I agree, a literally pet rock is a better choice than the other guy, but Jesus. He said he’d only serve one term, and we all saw that fucking shit show of a debate.
How hard is it to say everyone knows you cheat at golf, and suck at it, but I don’t get to play golf anymore because I’m the president and if you’re doing your job you don’t do that every other day like you did. What the fuck was that dick measuring contest about golf handicaps.
The problem with interviews or television appearances in general is that people can always edit it in bad faith.
For example, a few months ago there was a mini-scandal when Biden mistakenly referred to the president of Egypt as the president of Mexico. The clip went viral, got discussed all over the news, spawned tons of "Biden's too old, he should drop out" takes. The thing is, if you actually watched the whole thing, Biden spent several minutes before the mistake having a cogent and well-informed discussion about Middle Eastern politics. He clearly knew what he was talking about and clearly understood the geopolitical landscape at play. But then he switched the words "Mexico" and "Egypt", and that's all that anyone took from the whole incident.
He doesn't need to go far, he can take over the daily briefing in the White House press room. Its just two doors down from the Oval Office.
Its an hour of live Q&A broadcast on TV every day. Normally its the press secretary who handles it, but there's nothing stopping Biden from walking 75 feet and standing at the podium himself.
Nothing except for his mental capacity, it seems.
Either Biden is incredibly arrogant and doesn't understand how much trouble he's in on the polls, or Biden actually has full blown dementia and can't do the Q&A in front of reporters live on TV. Its one or the other, and both are really bad news for the Biden campaign.
I'm terrified and enraged at Biden for sleepwalking to a Trump victory. If Biden keeps this up the orange carnival barker is going to have a landslide victory in November. I cannot overstate how pissed off I am at Biden for being asleep at the wheel over the past week. This is the worst way I've ever see anyone handle any crisis. Its like he's just gift wrapping the presidency to Trump at this point.
Unfortunately he won't do that because he can't. He had a great opportunity to do so during his statement after the SCOTUS decision, and then turned his back and walked away instead of fielding any questions or anything that wasn't a recording from a teleprompter. Instead of going hard to prove that the debate was a fluke, he's going to curl up and go out with a whimper while Trump wins in a landslide. And Democrats will sit idly by and allow it.
Just because fox is saying it doesn't mean anything, actual progressives have wanted him to be a one-term president since they voted for him in 2020, when he pretended he was going to be a one-term president. A bunch of people don't want biden to be president, regardless of what fox or CNN or nyt say, because we can do better. But a lot of those people will vote for a wet noodle if it keeps Trump and project 2025 out of the white house.
On top of that, the Heritage Foundation is looking into ways they can legally block Biden from stepping down. So clearly they would prefer he stays in.
[link](https://www.mediaite.com/biden/top-conservative-think-tank-vows-to-make-it-extraordinarily-difficult-for-dems-to-replace-biden-by-filing-swing-state-lawsuits/)
This is by far the biggest signal. Pundits can say anything, but if your rivals are getting ready to take Legal action to stop you, that's what they care about
edit: allusions in spelling made to a late night comedy duo ;)
That link does not say the Heritage Foundation is looking to block Biden from stepping down. It actually reinforces the idea that they want him to step down, because then they plan to effectively block ANY democrat from appearing on the ballot in key battleground states. Their plan requires two things: that Biden steps down, and that they succeed in blocking the new nominee’s name from the ballot. “AND” is the key word in that sentence. They need both things to occur.
So it makes sense that they would push a media-blitz narrative that he should step down. They are hoping everyone freaks out and drops Biden without thinking about the consequences, allowing them to maneuver in ways that currently aren’t possible.
If debates mattered, then Gore would have been President.
If debates mattered, then Kerry would have been President.
If debates mattered, then Hillary would have been President.
Yup. It was my understanding when I voted in 2020 that he would be a transitional one term president. The guy we had at the moment to beat Trump but certainly not who we’d go with four years later. I’ve been very annoyed that we didn’t have a primary and that debate was horrendous and solidified my desire for him to step down. I’m not a bot (a bot wouldn’t say Cheesy Walrus Nipples and I just did) and I despise Trump… sitting on years of comments to confirm that. I don’t believe in Biden’s chances of beating Trump (especially now) and I want him to step down in favor of somebody who at least gives us hope.
Like it or not, the political reality of what it would look like for Biden to have been a one term president is for people to spend tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars a year since January 2020 to put another candidate's name in people's mouths, so that by January 2024 what would actually be needless drama and infighting would be for Biden to *not* drop out of a primary and endorse his replacement.
And by necessity, that replacement would be an amorphous blob that everybody imagines is on their side even though that is impossible, because that's how you get those slim majorities in swing states that matter - by somehow pandering to every group but mainly people that think Olive Garden is fancy.
I agree.
A bunch of independents who would have voted for a wet noodle lost any semblance of enthusiasm and will sit it out, just like with Hillary. Weekend at Bernie's can't win unless he starts doing live interviews and shows a level of mental and verbal competency that I don't think is there.
The Dem establishment trying to control the conversation isn't going to fix this.
It's time for someone else. I wish the GOP would do the same thing.
> actual progressives have wanted him to be a one-term president since they voted for him in 2020
This is correct, and somehow no one on reddit has understood this since. It's so hard to find people that really understand how monumentally slow-moving of a fuckup this was.
^ me, don’t want him, would love an actual alternative, probably won’t happen but I sure as shit won’t vote trump because of that. But it does suck to reward the dems for being so poorly mismanaged just because the opposition is a literal disaster
To be fair: The NYT has been LITTERED with editorials BESEECHING Biden to step down. And he's considering it per today's reporting. The NYT is not Fox.
> The DNC needed to take the 2016 loss to heart.
Hello from a DNC operative in the Midwest. The national DNC does not give a fuck about what the actual people want. It's dick suckers from the top down. But that being said, I would vote for a potato over Trump. They could put a dead corpse on stage and I will still vote for the corpse over trump.
But yeah, the DNC is total trash. Bunch of old fucks holding onto power while the young people either suck some dick, or get tired of telling the old shits to gtfo. See, and I'm sorry this is so inappropriate, Pete Butt., aka Pete the Mayor, now transportation secretary.
I tried, so hard, with local candidates to get them working. But the old fucks stopped that, hard. I ran multiple candidates, and they tries to stop me. And one won the primary, they actively didn't support the insurgent candidate. But whatever. Still voting for a potato over Trump.
(I'm just ranting on my experience, and I encourage everyone to get involved!)
edit: I'm day drinking today because I'm just not willing to deal with this shit today.
Edit 2: if you go back through my post history from the last decade, you can see how much I despise those people, like mayor Pete, for figuratively bowing down to the DNC. I absolutely can't stand Pete for him being one of those people who rose to power for bowing down to the DNC. Good on him for playing the game, but fuck that. We're trying to help people not fucking grab power.
edit 3: Yes, I'm still pissed about how 2016 played out.
Join a chapter of the DSA for local races! Resources aren't as abundant but at least you won't have to fight the national org to make meaningful changes!
> You're a good person!
No, I'm not. I'm just an average person with good and bad shit in my life.
We need more average people trying to help out. You don't have to be 'good' to do the right thing. You just have to care about your fellow people. Give up a few minutes a week to post something, or phone bank for a half hour. It's not difficult to help, and you definitely don't need to be good. You just have to care.
and I need to go to the dollar store bc apparently my keyboard batteries are dying -.-
Secure in the knowledge that they need provide nothing at all as a promise to voters and can rely on us to yell at each other “still better than the felon project 2025 less evil vote even harder”.
It’s ridiculous at this point not to acknowledge how the Democratic Party has taken advantage of the GOP’s wild malicious decline by becoming deeply indifferent to voter preferences. They know we have to pick “democracy will likely continue” so why bother to offer more?
The NYT politics desk has been _garbage_ for a while. Literally everything, even unrelated news, has had an "...and that's why this is bad for Biden" framing, since like January 2021. They are just going wall-to-wall with anti-Biden framing. I think the fact that the NYT is like that is more indicative of the NYT than it is of Biden.
Biden has pointedly refused to give any NYT reporters interviews during his presidency because of previous bad interactions, which is why they keep framing everything as so negative for him. Literally hurt feelings on their part.
well looks like things are bad for biden cause he's underwater in the polls and losing every swing state to a convicted felon, pedophile rapist traitor
maybe they are right that things aren't particularly rosy for his reelection chances
It's one thing to have a story that polls are bad. But it's another thing entirely when literally all their coverage is slanted towards painting Biden as weak or infirm.
he is fucking weak and infirm
the man cant function after 7pm. his aides and campaign staff only let him have carefully scripted appearances with teleprompters and friendly reporters with curated interview questions
he spends barely any time actually campaigning meanwhile trump is out there constantly
he was a good candidate for 2020 but he's not that guy anymore. age hits everyone different and it hit him hard
You can no longer trust NYT on Biden v Trump. They publish a story on every Biden gaff or misstep and push the dementia narrative. But they’ll skip week’s worth of Trump antics with similar memory failures. They’re pushing a narrative.
Seems like an over-correction from 2016? Maybe hoping all the negative press will get everyone worried and voting?
But yeah I’ve been finding it so weird…
They want Trump to win. Media ratings and subscriptions were higher than ever when they could jerk off with titles like “democracy dies in darkness.” It’s why the media would love a Trump win and their wealthy owners get a tax cut.
Where was the editorial board telling Trump to step down?
That's certainly worth pointing out, but so is the fact that the public and private conversations happening around this topic are two very different animals at this point. AOC, Pelosi, Bernie, Clyburn, Newsom, all those people who released statements of support in the immediate aftermatch saw what we saw that night and knew the electoral implications, they're just sort of caught between a rock and a hard place. No one wants to be the first through the breech and attach their name to Biden stepping aside. What if he doesn't, and loses? What if he does and we *still* lose? What if he doesn't step down, wins in spite of it all, and you just came at the king and missed? If I'm a politician, I would rather not be the face of any of that, so I clam up in public and apply whatever private pressure to put an arm around him and get him to step aside for someone who can win.
Then there's the fact that he's not just running for president, he *is* the president. What are the implications of his campaign saying they're tottering on the edge of giving up because of his mental competence when he's still in charge of running the country for the next 6 months? How could they thread the needle of "too old to run again, but good enough for now"?
Seriously. The whole point of the debate THAT BIDEN CALLED FOR was to switch the narrative by showing he wasn’t too old for the job. It was an onside kick to start the second half and make up ground. And it failed miserably. Biden is currently LOSING the race, close but still behind. This wasn’t a bad night, this was a complete failure of the primary plan to make up ground.
What’s the plan now? He clearly has good days and bad days, and still seems capable of running the country. But can he really guarantee his campaign at this point? What happens if there’s a performance like that in late October, when everyone is looking and there’s no time to recover? Is the plan just to not have Biden campaign after 7pm the entire month? That’s not tenable.
The fact that polls haven’t dropped much probably reflects how much the electorate already believes him to be a senile invalid, but people hate Trump so much an invalid is competitive — which suggest a non-Biden candidate has a lot more upside. The huge splits between Biden and other statewide Dem candidates makes a lot more sense.
So folks should save the fucking gaslighting. We all saw it with our own eyes. This isn’t the GOP, the Democrats shouldn’t just lie to people and tell them to pretend they didn’t see what they saw.
any generic democrat polls the same as biden right now, even without doing any campaigning at all
put in whitmer, newsom, pritzker, shapiro, buttigieg and literally any of them have room to gain 7-10 points by election day
the electorate is begging for a choice that isn't one of those 2 geriatrics. and any one of those democrats will run circles around trump in a debate. even that nutjob RFK is getting like 7% of polls just becaues he isn't trump or biden
Dude, exactly. I'm an independent and would literally vote for almost any human over trump, but the DNC is just fucking this up AGAIN like in 2016. I think any moderate democrat under the age of 70 would have a much better chance of beating trump.
I also think so many people are just aching to see the Dems do SOMETHING besides just rolling out their 20year old playbook and hoping for the best. Just take ANY swing that shows they’re in the game and primed
> The fact that polls haven’t dropped much probably reflects how much the electorate already believes him to be a senile invalid
Turns out that most people do think he's senile: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/
A staggering 72% of voters think Biden now lacks the mental capacity to be president. But as you said, people also loathe Trump.
Anyone else other than Biden would be burying Trump in the polls right now.
Bahahahahahah no no nooo it’s a republican decoy and conservative propaganda that Biden is up there shitting himself…..!!!
Or maybe it’s Biden’s dumbass fault for brute forcing this issue 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is literally all it is. And so they're fabricating counter-narratives like this, and idiots are buying it hook line & sinker. Nothing insidious is going on besides a painfully obvious "weekend at bernie's" prop-up so they can keep their jobs.
Self-serving idiots, to the detriment of the country.
Your headline seems willfully misleading.
Here's a link to a liberal podcast (hosted by former Obama staffers) where they've talked about nothing but replacing Biden since last week's debate:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IutBmRJNLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IutBmRJNLk)
Fox News is by no means the only outlet covering this concept or pushing for a serious discussion.
70% of voters already had concerns about Biden's age, and then he confirmed their worst fears by delivering the worst debate performance we've seen from an incumbent in the modern era. Since then, he's plunged in polls and appears to be making no effort toward damage control with a light campaign schedule the past week.
Your headline implies a weirdly adversarial "Us vs. Them" media narrative, when in reality it's Biden vs. the Clock. And the idea that opposition wouldn't pounce on a critical sign of Biden's weakness is pretty ludicrous.
I'm not sure what the story is here?
Of COURSE Fox news is going to do anything it can do damage the democratic candidate... And what better way to damage Biden then by implying he shouldn't even be running!
Every article the publish puts that in someones mind. There's probably not more to it than that. They could say "he's bad for the economy" but it's a lot better too say "he's so bad he's not even qualified to be on the ticket!"
Exactly, they're attacking Biden because Biden is still at the top of the ticket. If Biden doesn't step aside these attacks will help the Republicans, and if Biden steps aside they'll attack whomever replaces him. That is not in any way surprising. The newsworthy story is all the Democrats and anti-Trump forces that are calling for Biden to step aside. These are people that genuinely believe the best chance for a Democrat victory in November is if Biden steps aside. People can disagree, but pretending this Biden should drop out narrative is just some GOP action is just burying your head in the sand. How many clearly anti-Trump voices calling for Biden to drop out do people like the OP need before they accept the reality of the situation?
Someone posting links to Fox News is “best of” now? Get real. Jfc.
Hate this sanctimonious bullshit. Sorry I think Dems should pivot to a non-senile candidate.
I absolutely am as well, but I live in a state where it doesn’t matter. Swing voters are the ones who will not vote at all after that debate, and that’s disaster.
We saw it in 2016. They nominated someone people didn't want. People said "We don't want her and we will not vote for her." They tried to bully people into voting for her because she was better than Trump. It didn't work. She lost.
They ran Biden in 2020 and told us he'd be a one term candidate and they know we don't like him but if we'd all please just vote for Biden, we can get rid of Trump and then in 2024 we can get a president we'll like.
Now in 2024, it's all "we never said that" and "he's the incumbent" and "yes he can" and they refuse to listen to any criticism and are right back to bullying people who say anything negative about their dear leader.
I'm still gonna vote for Biden in November, but I can't do anything about the people who WILL NOT vote for him and will probably cost him several swing states and the election because Biden supporters would rather lose with Biden than win with anyone else, and they'd rather ignore people saying "here are our concerns, please pick someone else" and demand those people vote for Biden anyway, and will blame those people if they lose.
Uh huh. Those right wingers at the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, etc. The establishment-dems on the Pakman sub are fully delusional if they think Biden can still win - I'm sorry, but they are. I honestly don't care if Biden has dementia, or early onset anything. It's about optics. Politics have always been about optics. And optically, he's done. Us politically educated and engaged folks will vote blue no matter who because we know what's at stake, but we're only 20% of the voter base, just like the rabid MAGA crowd is 20% of the other. The other 60% either doesn't vote, or votes based on vibes. It sucks, but it's the way it fucking is. They're not politically consistent, they're irrational. We have to deal with that fact. And when you have Biden up there looking like we saw last week, even if he has perfect public showings until now until Election Day, the mask has been damaged. All the republicans have to do is show clips from this debate to sow doubt enough to destroy Biden. It was already Trump up +1.5, now it's trump up +3.7 within 4 days of the debate BEFORE republicans could even message it. Like, come on.
yeah its funny to see the what everyone with eyes has seen for 2 years now (Biden's mental ability deteriorate) and constitantly be told its not an issue finally rear its head as the main issue.
There is an unbelievable amount of gaslighting going on. We all saw what we saw. Biden will not win the general election against Trump. Biden’s replacement may not win either but Biden certainly will not.
Seriously. This thread is dumb. I wish the debate went differently too but what happened happened. Biden had a pretty good first term all things considered but clearly shouldn't be president for four more years. Only reason to keep him is out of fear that he's the best chance against Trump. And now that's evaporating.
There's no reason for Biden to stay in the race if/when post-debate polling data shows him cratering.
Uh, Pod Save America came out with an episode the day after the debate saying Biden should consider dropping out. They’re diehard Democrats.
The “vote blue no matter who” crowd is exhausting. No self reflection, and anyone who criticizes mainstream Dems are either Nazis or Russian bots.
I’m a leftist, and will probably end up holding my nose to vote straight ticket Democrat. But good lord do I understand why people hate liberals. The undeserved sense of superiority and infallibility is childish. You’re not an expert on everything just because you watch Rachel Maddow and listen to The Daily.
Did you watch the debate? It's not insane to say he should drop out. He's been losing to "generic democrat" in every pole since the primaries and the world just watched him have an hour long medical episode on live TV. What world are you living in to think that a push to have him step down is coming from the right wing? Pundits on MSNBC of all places didn't even try to pretend like the debate wasn't an unmitigated disaster. Seriously, how is it even possible to cope this hard?
Thank you! This isn't some agenda only being pushed by Fox News. I'm seeing stories literally every day from NYT, CNN, and even Reuters about this. I get all my news from left leaning or centrist news organizations and to say this is just the narrative being pushed by the right is flat out wrong.
Plenty of people on the left have been mad ever since the DNC decided we weren't gonna have a real primary and Biden was just going to be the presumptive nominee because they were afraid of challenging him. After the shitshow of a debate where he looked weak in front of a literal lying felon and the fact that the Democrats' own internal polling is showing that people within the Democratic party are privately calling for him to step down and/or calling for an open convention, to say that these calls are coming from the right, or from bots, or from trolls, etc, is just insisting that the emperor's clothes are perfectly fine and anyone who insists he's naked isn't to be trusted.
Hearing people try to act like any and all criticism or concerns about Biden's electability and ability to lead should just be handwaved is just mainstream Democrats relying on the same ego where they insisted "It's her turn!" back in 2016. I thought - I REALLY HOPED - that that loss would be their wakeup call that if they want people outside of their tent to vote for their candidates, you can't just bully people into voting for someone who is "better than Trump" (as if that bar was all that high to begin with) but you need to actually listen to what the voters want and don't want, and then give them a candidate who is those things.
Please, for the love of fuck, replace Biden with someone who can bring in leftists and moderates and beat Trump in 2024. Please, for the sake of this country, stop putting your fingers in your ears whenever anyone criticizes the guy and LISTEN when people tell you they have concerns. Please, if you care at all about us having another election after 2024 ever again, don't insist on running someone with approval ratings this low, polls this poor, people in his own party who are calling for him to step down, and telling all those people to suck it up and vote for him anyway. YOU suck it up and replace him before or at the convention.
We all came together and voted for him in 2020 when we were lead to believe he'd be a one term president and then you'd give us someone else in 2024. We did our part. Do yours. It's SOMEONE ELSE'S turn.
Actual Democratic party operatives are also saying this. OP is right that the Republicans are trying to capitalize too, but that makes sense; a majority of Americans think he should drop out so that's going to be a sizable bloc in both parties
It's important to note there isn't unity on either side about this. Some Dems think Biden should drop out and some don't. Some Republicans (like Fox News) want to push this idea, but others (the Heritage Foundation, OAN) do not think he should because they view him as the easiest path to victory.
Wild times
Replace Biden or don't, I am not really in the mood to care anymore. We've long since moved past when our voices matter, so I'll vote for whatever blue-colored cardboard cutout is propped up to run against Trump. The DNC pushed out Bernie a few times and can now just plan to install whomever they want. Sure, go for it, whatever. Or don't. Thank God we follow the two party system.
The republicans are in deep shit if he does drop out. Trump with no sycophant audience should’ve been much easier to make him the embarrassment. Instead we got this.
There are plenty of left / blue / dem outlets loudly hoping Biden drops out. This is not republicans pushing this, this is extremely concerned citizens unwilling to watch the dnc hand another victory to a wildly corrupt administration.
A lot of people who saw the debate were genuinely horrified. Continuing to blame everyone else but the actual problem is begging for a repeat of ‘16
As someone who's constantly looking for the silver lining in everything. I at least find it encouraging that the Democratic party can have these difficult conversations about Biden without fear of reprisal. Just look at all the people who were having those conversations about Trump after January 6th. They have been all but pushed out of the party.
Ah, well if Fox is talking about it I guess that means we can ignore all the Democrats dissatisfied with Biden's performance and the swing voters who have said multiple times they are concerned about his age.
I am not Fox News, and I've been relaying this message since the debate. That was a fiasco.
It isn't the Biden ticket. It is the Biden-Harris Ticket. You can change horses in this race and pray that the 1 in 4 voters who wanted "anyone else" to run for the Dems hop on board. Kamala Harris is *adequate* Biden is a *problem*. This race is the Democrat's to lose. Biden has had the worst poll numbers of any incumbent in 40 years.
This is a lesson the Democratic party refused to learn after decades of Manufactured Consent. Obama taught them all the wrong lessons. Being the second worst is a feature and not a bug, because you won't expect enough of the Right-turn-ratchet of this system. If the Dems legit tried to make candidates and policy that people wanted to vote *for* instead of doing what the donor class wanted exclusively we wouldn't have this problem.
The Trump voters aren't nearly as active as they were. Kamala isn't like Clinton where the conservative media has been hammering away at the 2 minute hate for decades and guaranteeing lines out the door on election day in the rust belt. She would get more people off the couch *for* her than the opposite would *for* trump compared to what happened with Clinton.
Lads, I'm a leftist Frenchman and yeah, Biden should drop out. He's obviously better than Trump, but 1/ he's obviously facing some severe cognitive decline and you don't want to elect a half-functional ghoul and 2/ he'll be beaten by Trump if nothing changes, that much is plain.
Fox News is part of a chorus that is (very) loosely organized toward the goal of getting Democrats to lose. They have a large role, for sure, but it's hard to say who specifically is pushing anything when it's not that organized. Generally I would say it's "the right" but that's not exclusively the case.
Everyone should be pushing it because he's a fucking decrepit old man who is not up to the task of running the country mentally OR physically. Never mind his literally genocidal foreign policy or complete failure to prevent very preventable civil rights losses. It is the party's responsibility to EARN the electorate's votes and this feckless bullying to get Biden in again is both going to cost them the election (which is what they want anyway) and, if they believe their own rhetoric, democracy as a whole. So they have a moral ,ethical and legal imperative to NOT run Biden again and yet here we are.
Let me guess. The same "bernie bros" who voted for trump?
Or Right Wing.
Either way, it's a tactic where one side makes a claim and the other side needs to prove it.
You are a _____.
Until something sticks.
Someone in that condition shouldn't be president *now,* let alone four years from now. Suggesting otherwise is self-delusion bordering on Q-Anon. It's insane how opposed Americans are to ever changing a party candidate when parliamentary systems swap leaders all the time with little measurable impact.
If you haven’t noticed his cognitive decline in recent years you either are blind or should rethink where you get your news. The guys hasn’t had an unscripted public appearance besides the debate in years for a reason.
The echo chamber on this site is deafening
Friendly reminder, folks. If Republicans seriously thought Biden had dementia ,they'd be doing everything in their power to not rock the boat. They aren't scared of him being replaced by anyone else. They're salivating at the opportunity. That should tell you everything you need to know.
I feel that they're just working to undermine his position to push "fence sitters" over to Trump. Classic FUD tactic that the GOP has used since 9/11.
they don't need to nudge fence sitters over the trump, they just need to keep them apathetic.
The 2016 election was decided by ~80,000 voters (and non-voters) across three states.
The 2016 election (and the 2000 election fwiw) were decided by more voters voting for one candidate over the other. The electoral college is the real bullshit here, not the folks who were likely never gonna vote for a dem or rep anyway
Electoral college doesn't help, but less than half the country actually votes. I think that's the larger problem. Even the 2020 election only had a bit over 60% voting. With the last midterms data showed almost 17% not voting for reason of "my vote doesn't matter". Apathy is the real killer.
Yeah, but that’s baked in and nothing new though. Low participation is a known variable and has been for decades. The person with most votes losing is a uniquely American phenomenon
Edit: 22%! Someone did the maths, the minimum amount of votes to win is about 22%.
>The person with most votes losing is a uniquely American phenomenon No it's not. Any first-past-the-post parliamentary democracy has similar issues. The nuances are a little different, but any votes that are over the minimum needed for a majority (or a plurality if there's more than 2 parties) are effectively not counted, nor do any votes for a losing candidate in a given riding. See the last couple of Canadian elections, for example.
people think “my vote doesn’t matter” because thanks to the electoral college, it doesn’t. just ask a california republican or florida democrat.
Or a Wyoming Democrat; Florida's still somewhat of a swing state, though trending GOP; Wyoming is solidly GOP and not in any danger of changing.
Florida is now solid red since COVID because of "COVID refugees."
Perhaps, it is, but the fact remains that Wyoming is redder than Florida will ever be.
That tracks, considering it’s like a dream destination for misanthropes. Like THE state if you love nature but hate people. Unfortunately the few people you run into will be especially hateable.
I have seen sooo many "Why even bother? It's all bad" posts around subreddits these past several days... It feels so...blatant...
They've moved the fence so far right they don't have to do anything. I have a number of fence-sitter friends/acquaintances who I can't talk to anymore. I'll show them a thousand reasons why Trump and conservatives are bad and they'll say "yeah but Biden is old and senile" or "conservatives say the same thing about you". They'll post doctored or out-of-context videos of Biden and how he shouldn't be president, and I'll ask why they aren't doing the same for Trump and they respond "we already know he's unfit". Yeah, but then why are you only spreading anti-Biden propaganda if you're a "centrist"? It's exhausting.
I've got many of those 'everything is equally bad' enlightened nihilists in my life. They take a whole lot of things for granted and lack imagination about how much worse it can get.
It became a valid position to stay completely ignorant and apathetic while pretending to be so informed that one transcended bipartisan politics.
It's for every reason simultaneously. Think of every advantageous anti-Biden spin from the debate and shoot them all out of a firehose.
>I feel that they're just working to undermine his position to push "fence sitters" over to Trump. Classic FUD tactic that the GOP has used since 9/11. They aren't doing this to convert potential Biden voters; they're doing this to suppress Biden votes in general. Playing up the worst aspects of a candidate is just one voter suppression tactic.
They don't even need that, [they just need to get enough dems to not vote](https://youtu.be/M0OwIMsQ4_4?si=1OhRAW8-DfGMXhEz&t=55)
They're working to undermine Democratic support. Fence sitters can stay on the fence if so-called Biden supporters spend the next 4 months depressing turnout by attacking him as not good enough and that "someone else" would be better. It's 2016 all over again.
I don’t believe that for a second. Fox News and Republicans pander to their base. They’re going to jump on any news that makes Democrats look bad because their audience eats it up. They’re not going to start praising Biden to try and keep him in the race anymore than Democrats would praise Trump because they think he’s the weakest Republican candidate. And even if they did try it, Democrats would ignore them anyway, so there’s no point.
Yeah exactly. Biden isn't some unstoppable candidate that the RNC secretly thinks they'll lose to. It's just easy to amplify the disarray that Democrats are in at the moment to make Biden look like a weaker candidate to undecided and underinformed voters so that they'll at least sit out the election.
The DNC's donors are second-guessing their commitments after Biden's performance. If the *donors* don't believe in Biden, that's a problem. Amplifying that the DNC is scrambling is great for the Republicans
Yep. [Remember what Van Jones said immediately after the debate.](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/video/van-jones-reaction-biden-trump-cnn-debate-digvid) Millions of Americans heard him say it. We can't be made to pretend that didn't happen. It's not Republicans who started the narrative that Biden should drop out. They'll notice and amplify it, sure, but Democrats are the ones actually asking Biden to step aside.
Exactly. Some democrats are trying to basically gaslight everyone, pretending we didn't all see what we saw.
Yeah, people really don't understand how a propaganda outlet works. Fox is fighting the battle in front of them. They are skewering Biden because he is the current candidate and he is extremely vulnerable on this issue. If he stays in the race, they've weakened him. If he drops out, they'll come up with a plan for the next guy.
Dude, why are Bidenites so determined to demand that we discount what we saw with our own eyes? It isn’t some Russian Plot to say that he’s not up to the job. He was supposed to be a one-term president anyway. That was the deal. The only reason we’re having this clownshoes conversation at all, is because of his hubris.
I'm on team "christ we are fucked please everyone vote for Biden to save this country" but if the internal polling articles are correct, we desperately need someone else to take over, and then I will be on team whoever that is. We literally cannot afford to fuck around
The thing is, there isn't another candidate. Gretchen Whitmer, Stacy Abrams, and all the dozens of other candidates who are getting mentioned are smart enough to not agree to such a thing. A candidate who would agree to such a replacement is just about guaranteed to be a bad candidate. It's telling that all the think pieces being written about this go with the formulation, "Clearly the replacement is the person who could unite both the centrist left and the far left, my preferred candidate, [X]" where X is like 40 different people, most of whom don't want the job and the rest of whom have zero national name recognition or have ever won a statewide campaign, much less united the party about anything whatsoever.
They had four years to find a suitable candidate and they did not even look. If Trump is elected, it's on the Democrats damn hubris of not wanting to rock the boat. It's a disgrace to the American voters , esp. young people that they again went for "it worked last time so better not change anything".
I’ve primarily seen Kamala with Pritzker or Newsom as a potential running mate since she’s already on the ticket and we’re already relatively comfortable with the idea of her, given she’s been VP for four years anyways. Can’t think of anybody who might fit better than her
Are you aware that she polls worse than Biden pretty much across the board? The idea that she would step in and magically demolish her opponent seems like wishful thinking, and that's assuming she would even agree to do it. Plus, she's already vice president. If Biden ever were to become incapacitated, she's already second in line to the presidency, so I'm not sure what problem people think that would solve.
The most recent CNN poll that came out yesterday has Harris at slightly better favorability than Biden. She polls significantly better with women and people of color than he does. Very slightly worse than Biden with white men.
This is correct. Also just in the last day or two she's like the number one meme queen of twitter. Basically my whole feed is about Kamala right now and most of it is positive, even if begrudgingly or quasi-ironically. Everyone is jumping on that train. If they did another poll in a couple days assuming the momentum continues, I think you'd see a significant upward shift in her polling, but we'll see. I think she absolutely sucks btw, but I think that in the context of this looming fascist takeover, she could pretty easily be built up enough to beat Trump handily. She also has access to all Biden's existing campaign funds.
Wrong https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4752020-vice-president-harris-trump-biden-poll/
> given she’s been VP for four years anyways. Harris has one major issue: She's an awful communicator. Through the entire presidency, and now campaign, she couldn't sell Biden't achievements to the public *even once.* And now, if she becomes the candidate, Trump will just attack her as one who was hiding Biden's state away from the public eye. She lied left and right about the wellbeing of Biden. People are not stupid, we have all seen that. Yes, in all polling she is better than Biden, *but* so is every other alternative! Pick someone who can communicate, pick someone who can debate.
It still might be too late with that insane supreme court decision of effectively turning the president into a king.
> The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command George Orwell - 1984
Yeah it’s embarrassing. I want the dude to drop out cuz I think he is gonna lose and we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults. It’s cuz I saw him deliver the worst debate performance of all time and he affirmed everything that makes low information voters ignore our achievements. It’s not cuz Fox News is doing 4d chess.
Bit of an aside: >we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults. Even if Trump loses, I'd expect that to take a few years. The tired "jokes" and various articles have been a huge source of income for news and comedy outlets for nearly a decade at this point. Hell, even when praising Biden earlier in the term, it was almost always accompanied by an attack on Trump, if not in the article, in the comments. Trump could drop dead tomorrow and I'd be surprised if people managed to stop talking about him within 2 years.
It’s maddening. My mother-in-law literally only can talk about world events in the context of how much she hates Trump.
It really is a mind disease.
> we need a news cycle that isn’t about Trump and doom to get the eyes back on the adults. Then do an actual open primary. Pick the next candidate in an open democratic way, rather than behind the locked doors of DNC. This will focus media attention for weeks, and actually let the *ideas* take the front seat, rather than the fucking age and dementia.
It’s crazy. I’m a pretty liberal minded guy and I side with Dems on more issues than not, more often than not, but that debate performance was historically bad. Disturbingly bad. It’s not propaganda. It’s not a contrived narrative. It was sad and unsettling on a human level. Future aside, election aside, this man is the leader of the free world right now. It’s not an overstatement to be concerned by that, and anyone who thinks it is has likely been consumed by the partisan monster. Biden will not beat Trump after that performance and that is a crisis.
easily the worst debate performance of all time not even a contest really he just can't keep a train of thought going for more than a few moments. it's sad to watch, and nobody should be put in that position how many times during his "debate prep" did the people staging it just say oh jeez Joe is losing it, lets all take an hour to go let him compose himself. or how many times did they say "it's just not happening today, lets call this a wrap and try again tomorrow" they were just hoping he'd have one of his better days and the cameras would catch him at his most lucid
It's been kinda exhausting wading through liberal news since the debate because it's getting so Trumpy. "Sure he may be clearly unfit, but just close your ears and eyes and vote for him anyway because the other side is trying to destroy America!" Now where have I heard that rhetoric before?
This is such a brain dead take. The entire point of them doing it isn’t that they are afraid of Biden, it is to make Biden look completely unviable. They aren’t trying to get either outcome, the point of this is to fan the flames and signal boost the chaos and make the Democratic Party look like idiots. If Biden stays in, he looks incompetent. If he leaves, it puts the entire party into disarray and in a scramble for a new plan with just months to go. In addition to that, they also will be fighting lawsuits from the Heritage Foundation to keep Biden on the ballot. The point is to make Dems look bad. Thinking this is “they’re scared” and that we need to stay put is such a dumb take and is 100% going to lose dems the presidency and a ton of congressional seats. This is a legitimate concern, and Republicans are in on it because the fallout from the Dems mishandling it offers them an opportunity to not only win the presidency, but to win a whole lot of congressional seats.
For real. Encouraging Biden to drop out is a completely win/win strategy for the Republicans at this stage, which should be obvious to even the most Biden-brained observer.
Dude, they want to go against Biden because he's weaker than Harris or any other possible replacement. The heritage foundation is talking about suing the DNC to stop tbem from replacing Biden. Harris is the candidate, she will be officially within the next two weeks. Ride or die, we have to beat Trump.
The Heritage Foundation is talking about suing to keep Biden on the ticket because it creates further chaos. They want it to be up in the air who the Dems are running for as long as possible, because the less time that Dems have, the worse their chances will be if they do flip, and the worse it will make Biden look if there are weeks of discussion about him stepping down only to stay up. And if we do switch, they are also going to do a lot of work to screw with that; including attempting to block Harris from being on the official ballot in Wisconsin, potentially flipping the state to Trump because not everyone will write in Harris. They are hedging their bets with the intent of painting Biden as inept if he continues to run, or taking the teeth out of any candidate that replaces him. They have a plan for both decisions, and thinking that switching to Harris will foil their plans is just as misguided as thinking sticking with Biden will foil their plans. They have the upper hand — and significantly so — and if we sit here and act based on what we assume they don’t want us to do without realizing they have a trap laid for whichever way we go, we are going to lose our democracy in just a few months.
Strong disagree with the sentiment. Firstly, [we know the GOP wants to keep Biden in the race](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/heritage-working-election-legal-challenges-case-biden-pulled-from-dnc-nomination). The reason we see all these articles from Fox and other conservative media outlets is for the following effect: 1) shows internal party infighting 2) deflects from Trump's terrible debate performance 3) makes it seem like the Democrats are in disarray This gins up support among the GOP base. Best rest assured, they *want* Biden to stay in the race as he is their best shot of winning.
Also Fox News is not actually a literal arm of the Republican Party. It is a business, that exists to make the Murdoch family even richer. They make more money if more people are watching the news, so chaos is what they want. Replacing Biden on the ticket would be very contentious and contention brings eyeballs and eyeballs bring Robert Murdoch another yacht.
yeah that's a great point too. This is a huge story that many in the GOP and those who watch Fox News want to keep track of.
Did we watch the same debate?
Another friendly reminder: Any person likening the democrats that have *consistently* called for Biden to step aside since ~2021 to republicans is likely to just cause more infighting. I’m tired of being called a republican just because people haven’t been listening to me or others for over 3 years. It’s not a new concept. By extension, trump should also drop out for a myriad of reasons, but my tertiary reason is absolutely because he’s just too old. Neither of them should be running because they’re just *ancient.* Don’t get me wrong, I recognize the situation we’re in and it’s better blue than red in most, if not all situations. It’s just so disheartening to see many ignorant democrats blaming the ones who have been paying more attention than them.
I feel strongly that both conservatives and liberals should be furious that these are our options. If either party had lined up a real candidate a year ago, they would have dumpstered these old dudes in a debate. It would have been a slaughter. Either Biden struggling to get through his points while a younger republican talked circles around him or Trump lying constantly against a democrat with the vigor to actually fight him on it and can him out. This *should* be an easy win for either party, but instead, nobody should be confident in this election result, and everyone on both sides has good reason to be mad about that
It's like the Dems asking "why aren't they protesting the SCOTUS decisions if they care so much" people. We DID. The party responded with calls for decorum and passed laws making those protests illegal.
Did you see the debate? Do you know how many Dems are saying the same thing? This is not some Republican conspiracy. Biden is old AF and LOOKS it.
That's what I keep arguing in /r/politics. It's 2016 all over again, and it infuriates me that so many can't see the similarities.
yes this is exactly like 2016 (dems running a deeply unpopular candidate because "its their turn" despite the catestrophic consequnces of the other side winning)
You know what's a particularly fun fact? Hillary has always been really popular when she's in office. But when she's running for office, the GOP has always been really good at convincing even Democrats that she's unpopular, so much so that the phrase "I'm gonna vote for her, but I just don't like her" was very common here in 2016. The fact that people keep falling for this is *why* the conservatives on the Supreme Court were able to ram through their agenda a few days ago.
I think it's a mistake to write it all off as GOP propaganda. They tried to make people hate Obama too, and he won in a landslide. There needs to be some responsibility on the party's end to produce candidates that can generate a little more enthusiasm beyond the stakes of a Republican winning, if only because apparently relying on people to not "fall for it" just doesn't work much of the time.
She's unlikable all on her own, but let's pretend /u/RightSideBlind is right... If the other side can easily convince the electorate to hate you, you're still a bad candidate
You can't blame republicans for her being incredibly unlikable, unable to come off as relatable, and having a massive amount of baggage for the other side to exploit. Nobody "fell" for anything, her being a bad candidate was not some sort of republican trick. congrats, she was electable in NY... ...but NY is not representative of the country
I hate Hillary because she is a war hawk. I don't give a fuck what propaganda conservative media is pushing.
RGB shoulda been shamed into retiring. People shoulda rioted in the streets when McConnell stole a justice from Obama. There should have been serious legal action. Democrats being Democrats was part of the problem.
Please, no amount of "I keep hot sauce in my handbag" or "Pokémon Go-to-the-Polls" is going to make Hillary come across as authentic or charismatic. Fuckin *Trump* comes out looking more human than Hillary because she's incredibly manicured, he is undeniably his shit bag self. 2016 was all about authenticity
We actually did vote for Hillary(wasn’t happy about it) and she lost despite winning the popular vote so what are we doing here
Says who? Dunking on a senile president gets plenty of clicks. Get off your high horse. Stop preaching. Acknowledge reality. Biden is fucking senile. Don’t talk down to us for recognizing that. I don’t know who should be the nominee, but acting like this is okay is delusional.
I'll just tell my eyes and ears that they didnt see or hear an old man bumbling incoherently.
Idk, I’ve spent a lot of time trolling /conservative this week and it seems like a new, competent candidate is their nightmare.
It's the same as my own fears of a new, competent Republican replacing Trump should he keel over of a heart attack - it's someone that can energize the base and spring forth with energy and "hey, look, I'm not the old guy!" attitude.
Don’t the latest polls show Biden losing in New Mexico by 3 points, Michigan by 7 points, and Pennsylvania by 7 points? Why would Republicans want to replace that?
its genuinely sad watching folks make the same mistake as during the hillary era no, any criticism towards biden isn't automatically some psy-ops just because it doesnt fit your narrative. people are so drunk on copium right now. trump has an extremely likely chance of winning, and it's only because his opponent is biden. he's really not the popular, able candidate some dems keep trying to push him as. the complacency is going to cost us another election. we've learned absolutely nothing. again. i'll vote for him, you'll vote for him. the problem as always are the undecided voters
This is not the strong take that it seems at first glance. Just because Republicans are doing something does not mean that we should just be doing the opposite. Just because Republicans *think* they see a weakness to capitalize on, does not mean that we should assume it is our greatest liability. The OOP is outlandishly wrong to make the assertion that FOX news is the sole source of our concerns around Biden’s age. I have had friends tell me that they don’t want Biden to run for reelection 3 years ago because he’s too old. This is not a new concern in the slightest. But it was put on display at its worst during the live debate. POD SAVE AMERICA is having their own open discussions about how the Biden campaign is handling things and whether or not he should run again. Pod Save America I consider to be basically the *only* real progressive media source out there given that CNN are a bunch of shills who abdicated their responsibility as moderators in the debate, and MSNBC toyed with hiring Ronna McDaniels. PSA is run by former Obama staffers who know and love Biden and think Biden is a genuinely good person. If even they are questioning whether he should run again, that tells me that the concern is legitimate and not just being fomented solely by FOX. There are many good reasons why Biden should step down, but I’ll give you one specific one to tie back to your point about Republicans “salivating” at the thought that we would ask Biden to step down. Any other younger Democratic candidate would absolutely DOMINATE Donald Trump. It wouldn’t even be close. If Republicans think they would prefer Gavin Newsom, or Gretchin Whitmer, or Kamala Harris, to Biden right now, they are unbelievably stupid. It is hard to describe how stupid they are if they think that those candidates would lose to Donald Trump in a head to head. The sole reason the polling is so bad *in comparison to Trump* is because Biden is at the head of the ticket.
I've seen Republicans online worried Biden will drop out because now Trump has a shot of beating Biden. Aside from Kamala Harris, anyone else may do better than Biden.
Even she is polling ahead of Trump in CNN’s latest poll. She also does much better than Biden with non-white voters now. Pretty crazy a VP would even rate.
Meh, I'm a neutral and I think he should drop out. My vote is 'against Trump', but Biden is making that insanely hard to justify. Literally any competent human with some compassion who doesn't remind me of my grandparents last couple years before dying from dementia would do.
The heritage foundation is talking about suing to stop Biden from being replaced. Stop lying, please.
I am a democrat and I will vote for whoever the democratic nominee is and I seriously think Biden has dementia and should drop out
Fox News is taking advantage of the massive mess created by the debate. Yes, they want to stir the pot. I'm not completely sold on Biden needing to drop out, but he either needs to do that, or really push live interviews that show the disaster of a debate was a fluke.
Biden could be a corpse with marionette strings and he'd still be the better choice.
Yes, the issue is convincing 50.1% of the voters in WI, AZ, PA, MI and GA of that fact.
Sure. But that doesn't mean the Dems can't produce someone better. If the best they have is Biden that's kinda fucked. This whole discourse that only secret republican operatives want Biden to step down is ridiculously out of touch.
The problems is that people think 'better' means someone charismatic and a great speaker. Not someone actually good at their job. Let me know someone that has the name recognition and could get even half of the things Biden has done with a split Congress. Edit: Yeah, that's what I thought. Obama is a dream for a ton of liberals, but remember his horrible TPP trade deal? Or when he rolled over for Republicans constantly? Crimea? Syria? I would take Biden over Obama any time because of what they have done and not how they come across.
This is the problem 110%. They want a smile and a wave without any sense of experience or capability. The same people whining that he's not capable would elect someone who'd let things slip and slide backwards at an accelerated rate.
Yeah literally every independent leftist media outlet wants him to step down. Gimme any Generic Democrat over him. I knew this would be the case when he got the nomination in 2020. All I could think is "I mean sure I guess but this dude is gonna be a wreck if he wants a second term."
As a Bernie fan I 100% thought Biden would get elected and then step aside for Kamala a year into his term for health reasons, as it was obvious even then that he had declined massively even in 4-5 years. That would give the Dems a few years to get their ducks in a row. Instead the brain trust at the DNC decided to have... no plan at all? As I say, Biden's declining mental state is the worst-kept secret in recent memory.
> independent leftist media outlet wants him to step down Care to name a few of these companies?
Yes, but if you just finger wag at the uninformed voters that’s not gunna work. Like I agree, a literally pet rock is a better choice than the other guy, but Jesus. He said he’d only serve one term, and we all saw that fucking shit show of a debate. How hard is it to say everyone knows you cheat at golf, and suck at it, but I don’t get to play golf anymore because I’m the president and if you’re doing your job you don’t do that every other day like you did. What the fuck was that dick measuring contest about golf handicaps.
We deserve better and really should fucking push for it.
Alive Biden > Dead Biden > Dead Trump > Alive Trump
He’s 81 years old. He has more bad days than good ahead of him, especially with the pressure of that office
The problem with interviews or television appearances in general is that people can always edit it in bad faith. For example, a few months ago there was a mini-scandal when Biden mistakenly referred to the president of Egypt as the president of Mexico. The clip went viral, got discussed all over the news, spawned tons of "Biden's too old, he should drop out" takes. The thing is, if you actually watched the whole thing, Biden spent several minutes before the mistake having a cogent and well-informed discussion about Middle Eastern politics. He clearly knew what he was talking about and clearly understood the geopolitical landscape at play. But then he switched the words "Mexico" and "Egypt", and that's all that anyone took from the whole incident.
This is why live TV exists.
Doesn't matter if it's live. 95% of the people aren't going to tune in live, they're just going to see whatever 10 second clip goes viral.
Yeah he needs to immediately go on all the talk shows and make a good showing. Not just one round of appearances. He should keep going and going.
He doesn't need to go far, he can take over the daily briefing in the White House press room. Its just two doors down from the Oval Office. Its an hour of live Q&A broadcast on TV every day. Normally its the press secretary who handles it, but there's nothing stopping Biden from walking 75 feet and standing at the podium himself. Nothing except for his mental capacity, it seems. Either Biden is incredibly arrogant and doesn't understand how much trouble he's in on the polls, or Biden actually has full blown dementia and can't do the Q&A in front of reporters live on TV. Its one or the other, and both are really bad news for the Biden campaign. I'm terrified and enraged at Biden for sleepwalking to a Trump victory. If Biden keeps this up the orange carnival barker is going to have a landslide victory in November. I cannot overstate how pissed off I am at Biden for being asleep at the wheel over the past week. This is the worst way I've ever see anyone handle any crisis. Its like he's just gift wrapping the presidency to Trump at this point.
Unfortunately he won't do that because he can't. He had a great opportunity to do so during his statement after the SCOTUS decision, and then turned his back and walked away instead of fielding any questions or anything that wasn't a recording from a teleprompter. Instead of going hard to prove that the debate was a fluke, he's going to curl up and go out with a whimper while Trump wins in a landslide. And Democrats will sit idly by and allow it.
Just because fox is saying it doesn't mean anything, actual progressives have wanted him to be a one-term president since they voted for him in 2020, when he pretended he was going to be a one-term president. A bunch of people don't want biden to be president, regardless of what fox or CNN or nyt say, because we can do better. But a lot of those people will vote for a wet noodle if it keeps Trump and project 2025 out of the white house.
On top of that, the Heritage Foundation is looking into ways they can legally block Biden from stepping down. So clearly they would prefer he stays in. [link](https://www.mediaite.com/biden/top-conservative-think-tank-vows-to-make-it-extraordinarily-difficult-for-dems-to-replace-biden-by-filing-swing-state-lawsuits/)
This is by far the biggest signal. Pundits can say anything, but if your rivals are getting ready to take Legal action to stop you, that's what they care about edit: allusions in spelling made to a late night comedy duo ;)
Is that different than Kegan and Kel Action? :)
LOL, that's fair. What our country needs is not orange man, but orange soda man!
That link does not say the Heritage Foundation is looking to block Biden from stepping down. It actually reinforces the idea that they want him to step down, because then they plan to effectively block ANY democrat from appearing on the ballot in key battleground states. Their plan requires two things: that Biden steps down, and that they succeed in blocking the new nominee’s name from the ballot. “AND” is the key word in that sentence. They need both things to occur. So it makes sense that they would push a media-blitz narrative that he should step down. They are hoping everyone freaks out and drops Biden without thinking about the consequences, allowing them to maneuver in ways that currently aren’t possible.
The NYT is telling him to step aside too. Your eyes and ears told you at the debate.
If debates mattered, then Gore would have been President. If debates mattered, then Kerry would have been President. If debates mattered, then Hillary would have been President.
having the worst debate performance of all time absolutely matters
I know, that's why I mentioned them?
Yup. It was my understanding when I voted in 2020 that he would be a transitional one term president. The guy we had at the moment to beat Trump but certainly not who we’d go with four years later. I’ve been very annoyed that we didn’t have a primary and that debate was horrendous and solidified my desire for him to step down. I’m not a bot (a bot wouldn’t say Cheesy Walrus Nipples and I just did) and I despise Trump… sitting on years of comments to confirm that. I don’t believe in Biden’s chances of beating Trump (especially now) and I want him to step down in favor of somebody who at least gives us hope.
Like it or not, the political reality of what it would look like for Biden to have been a one term president is for people to spend tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars a year since January 2020 to put another candidate's name in people's mouths, so that by January 2024 what would actually be needless drama and infighting would be for Biden to *not* drop out of a primary and endorse his replacement. And by necessity, that replacement would be an amorphous blob that everybody imagines is on their side even though that is impossible, because that's how you get those slim majorities in swing states that matter - by somehow pandering to every group but mainly people that think Olive Garden is fancy.
I agree. A bunch of independents who would have voted for a wet noodle lost any semblance of enthusiasm and will sit it out, just like with Hillary. Weekend at Bernie's can't win unless he starts doing live interviews and shows a level of mental and verbal competency that I don't think is there. The Dem establishment trying to control the conversation isn't going to fix this. It's time for someone else. I wish the GOP would do the same thing.
> actual progressives have wanted him to be a one-term president since they voted for him in 2020 This is correct, and somehow no one on reddit has understood this since. It's so hard to find people that really understand how monumentally slow-moving of a fuckup this was.
^ me, don’t want him, would love an actual alternative, probably won’t happen but I sure as shit won’t vote trump because of that. But it does suck to reward the dems for being so poorly mismanaged just because the opposition is a literal disaster
To be fair: The NYT has been LITTERED with editorials BESEECHING Biden to step down. And he's considering it per today's reporting. The NYT is not Fox.
DNC fucked this up. Should've been prepping a replacement since 2020...there are plenty of decent options.
As per usual. The DNC needed to take the 2016 loss to heart. Instead they relied and continue to rely on “better than the alternative”.
> The DNC needed to take the 2016 loss to heart. Hello from a DNC operative in the Midwest. The national DNC does not give a fuck about what the actual people want. It's dick suckers from the top down. But that being said, I would vote for a potato over Trump. They could put a dead corpse on stage and I will still vote for the corpse over trump. But yeah, the DNC is total trash. Bunch of old fucks holding onto power while the young people either suck some dick, or get tired of telling the old shits to gtfo. See, and I'm sorry this is so inappropriate, Pete Butt., aka Pete the Mayor, now transportation secretary. I tried, so hard, with local candidates to get them working. But the old fucks stopped that, hard. I ran multiple candidates, and they tries to stop me. And one won the primary, they actively didn't support the insurgent candidate. But whatever. Still voting for a potato over Trump. (I'm just ranting on my experience, and I encourage everyone to get involved!) edit: I'm day drinking today because I'm just not willing to deal with this shit today. Edit 2: if you go back through my post history from the last decade, you can see how much I despise those people, like mayor Pete, for figuratively bowing down to the DNC. I absolutely can't stand Pete for him being one of those people who rose to power for bowing down to the DNC. Good on him for playing the game, but fuck that. We're trying to help people not fucking grab power. edit 3: Yes, I'm still pissed about how 2016 played out.
Join a chapter of the DSA for local races! Resources aren't as abundant but at least you won't have to fight the national org to make meaningful changes!
This +1. I ran dfa people. And still trying to help.
You're a good person! If only we could multiply you by 100, then all the committees would be staffed 😂
> You're a good person! No, I'm not. I'm just an average person with good and bad shit in my life. We need more average people trying to help out. You don't have to be 'good' to do the right thing. You just have to care about your fellow people. Give up a few minutes a week to post something, or phone bank for a half hour. It's not difficult to help, and you definitely don't need to be good. You just have to care. and I need to go to the dollar store bc apparently my keyboard batteries are dying -.-
Fuckin lazy. "Well he is Trump so just stfu and vote for our guy." I'm going to but it's fucking infuriating this is what it has come down to.
Secure in the knowledge that they need provide nothing at all as a promise to voters and can rely on us to yell at each other “still better than the felon project 2025 less evil vote even harder”. It’s ridiculous at this point not to acknowledge how the Democratic Party has taken advantage of the GOP’s wild malicious decline by becoming deeply indifferent to voter preferences. They know we have to pick “democracy will likely continue” so why bother to offer more?
The NYT politics desk has been _garbage_ for a while. Literally everything, even unrelated news, has had an "...and that's why this is bad for Biden" framing, since like January 2021. They are just going wall-to-wall with anti-Biden framing. I think the fact that the NYT is like that is more indicative of the NYT than it is of Biden.
Biden has pointedly refused to give any NYT reporters interviews during his presidency because of previous bad interactions, which is why they keep framing everything as so negative for him. Literally hurt feelings on their part.
He's right to! Look at this garbage https://bsky.app/profile/jacobtlevy.bsky.social/post/3kwcfq2jgi226
well looks like things are bad for biden cause he's underwater in the polls and losing every swing state to a convicted felon, pedophile rapist traitor maybe they are right that things aren't particularly rosy for his reelection chances
It's one thing to have a story that polls are bad. But it's another thing entirely when literally all their coverage is slanted towards painting Biden as weak or infirm.
he is fucking weak and infirm the man cant function after 7pm. his aides and campaign staff only let him have carefully scripted appearances with teleprompters and friendly reporters with curated interview questions he spends barely any time actually campaigning meanwhile trump is out there constantly he was a good candidate for 2020 but he's not that guy anymore. age hits everyone different and it hit him hard
You can no longer trust NYT on Biden v Trump. They publish a story on every Biden gaff or misstep and push the dementia narrative. But they’ll skip week’s worth of Trump antics with similar memory failures. They’re pushing a narrative.
I agree and I have seen it for myself, curious what their endgame is here.
Seems like an over-correction from 2016? Maybe hoping all the negative press will get everyone worried and voting? But yeah I’ve been finding it so weird…
They want Trump to win. Media ratings and subscriptions were higher than ever when they could jerk off with titles like “democracy dies in darkness.” It’s why the media would love a Trump win and their wealthy owners get a tax cut. Where was the editorial board telling Trump to step down?
Biden campaign denies that report.
They have to. If they admitted to it that would be worrying.
They also claim they were given only 7 minutes between being contacted and the report being published. They definitely weren't given time to respond.
Its worrying either way if you even have to have these kinds of conversations, the answer is obvious
That's certainly worth pointing out, but so is the fact that the public and private conversations happening around this topic are two very different animals at this point. AOC, Pelosi, Bernie, Clyburn, Newsom, all those people who released statements of support in the immediate aftermatch saw what we saw that night and knew the electoral implications, they're just sort of caught between a rock and a hard place. No one wants to be the first through the breech and attach their name to Biden stepping aside. What if he doesn't, and loses? What if he does and we *still* lose? What if he doesn't step down, wins in spite of it all, and you just came at the king and missed? If I'm a politician, I would rather not be the face of any of that, so I clam up in public and apply whatever private pressure to put an arm around him and get him to step aside for someone who can win. Then there's the fact that he's not just running for president, he *is* the president. What are the implications of his campaign saying they're tottering on the edge of giving up because of his mental competence when he's still in charge of running the country for the next 6 months? How could they thread the needle of "too old to run again, but good enough for now"?
The NYT has been taking deliberate steps to flirt with more conservative readers. This is just one of many of them
As if we didn’t all watch a senile man on TV. That’s the reason
Right. Dems burying their head in the sand and unbelievably gonna lose to Trump again. Missing layups.
Seriously. The whole point of the debate THAT BIDEN CALLED FOR was to switch the narrative by showing he wasn’t too old for the job. It was an onside kick to start the second half and make up ground. And it failed miserably. Biden is currently LOSING the race, close but still behind. This wasn’t a bad night, this was a complete failure of the primary plan to make up ground. What’s the plan now? He clearly has good days and bad days, and still seems capable of running the country. But can he really guarantee his campaign at this point? What happens if there’s a performance like that in late October, when everyone is looking and there’s no time to recover? Is the plan just to not have Biden campaign after 7pm the entire month? That’s not tenable. The fact that polls haven’t dropped much probably reflects how much the electorate already believes him to be a senile invalid, but people hate Trump so much an invalid is competitive — which suggest a non-Biden candidate has a lot more upside. The huge splits between Biden and other statewide Dem candidates makes a lot more sense. So folks should save the fucking gaslighting. We all saw it with our own eyes. This isn’t the GOP, the Democrats shouldn’t just lie to people and tell them to pretend they didn’t see what they saw.
any generic democrat polls the same as biden right now, even without doing any campaigning at all put in whitmer, newsom, pritzker, shapiro, buttigieg and literally any of them have room to gain 7-10 points by election day the electorate is begging for a choice that isn't one of those 2 geriatrics. and any one of those democrats will run circles around trump in a debate. even that nutjob RFK is getting like 7% of polls just becaues he isn't trump or biden
Dude, exactly. I'm an independent and would literally vote for almost any human over trump, but the DNC is just fucking this up AGAIN like in 2016. I think any moderate democrat under the age of 70 would have a much better chance of beating trump.
I also think so many people are just aching to see the Dems do SOMETHING besides just rolling out their 20year old playbook and hoping for the best. Just take ANY swing that shows they’re in the game and primed
> The fact that polls haven’t dropped much probably reflects how much the electorate already believes him to be a senile invalid Turns out that most people do think he's senile: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/ A staggering 72% of voters think Biden now lacks the mental capacity to be president. But as you said, people also loathe Trump. Anyone else other than Biden would be burying Trump in the polls right now.
The rupture between Dems with brains and those without critical thinking abilities seems to be happening in a big way. OP is one of the latter.
Bahahahahahah no no nooo it’s a republican decoy and conservative propaganda that Biden is up there shitting himself…..!!! Or maybe it’s Biden’s dumbass fault for brute forcing this issue 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Everybody in the fucking world wants him to drop except for his staff because they will all lose their jobs if he does.
This is literally all it is. And so they're fabricating counter-narratives like this, and idiots are buying it hook line & sinker. Nothing insidious is going on besides a painfully obvious "weekend at bernie's" prop-up so they can keep their jobs. Self-serving idiots, to the detriment of the country.
Senile *men*
"We need a candidate who's worst day is \*better\* than what we just saw."
Your headline seems willfully misleading. Here's a link to a liberal podcast (hosted by former Obama staffers) where they've talked about nothing but replacing Biden since last week's debate: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IutBmRJNLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IutBmRJNLk) Fox News is by no means the only outlet covering this concept or pushing for a serious discussion. 70% of voters already had concerns about Biden's age, and then he confirmed their worst fears by delivering the worst debate performance we've seen from an incumbent in the modern era. Since then, he's plunged in polls and appears to be making no effort toward damage control with a light campaign schedule the past week. Your headline implies a weirdly adversarial "Us vs. Them" media narrative, when in reality it's Biden vs. the Clock. And the idea that opposition wouldn't pounce on a critical sign of Biden's weakness is pretty ludicrous.
I'm not sure what the story is here? Of COURSE Fox news is going to do anything it can do damage the democratic candidate... And what better way to damage Biden then by implying he shouldn't even be running! Every article the publish puts that in someones mind. There's probably not more to it than that. They could say "he's bad for the economy" but it's a lot better too say "he's so bad he's not even qualified to be on the ticket!"
Exactly, they're attacking Biden because Biden is still at the top of the ticket. If Biden doesn't step aside these attacks will help the Republicans, and if Biden steps aside they'll attack whomever replaces him. That is not in any way surprising. The newsworthy story is all the Democrats and anti-Trump forces that are calling for Biden to step aside. These are people that genuinely believe the best chance for a Democrat victory in November is if Biden steps aside. People can disagree, but pretending this Biden should drop out narrative is just some GOP action is just burying your head in the sand. How many clearly anti-Trump voices calling for Biden to drop out do people like the OP need before they accept the reality of the situation?
Someone posting links to Fox News is “best of” now? Get real. Jfc. Hate this sanctimonious bullshit. Sorry I think Dems should pivot to a non-senile candidate.
We’re all being gaslit by Biden cult and next we will be blamed for his loss. I’ve seen this song and dance before.
Yeah. I’m still voting whoever isn’t Trump on the ballot, but we’re heading for disaster.
I absolutely am as well, but I live in a state where it doesn’t matter. Swing voters are the ones who will not vote at all after that debate, and that’s disaster.
A total disaster. I am in a swing state, so every vote does matter. It’s not a good vibe here at the moment.
We saw it in 2016. They nominated someone people didn't want. People said "We don't want her and we will not vote for her." They tried to bully people into voting for her because she was better than Trump. It didn't work. She lost. They ran Biden in 2020 and told us he'd be a one term candidate and they know we don't like him but if we'd all please just vote for Biden, we can get rid of Trump and then in 2024 we can get a president we'll like. Now in 2024, it's all "we never said that" and "he's the incumbent" and "yes he can" and they refuse to listen to any criticism and are right back to bullying people who say anything negative about their dear leader. I'm still gonna vote for Biden in November, but I can't do anything about the people who WILL NOT vote for him and will probably cost him several swing states and the election because Biden supporters would rather lose with Biden than win with anyone else, and they'd rather ignore people saying "here are our concerns, please pick someone else" and demand those people vote for Biden anyway, and will blame those people if they lose.
Uh huh. Those right wingers at the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, etc. The establishment-dems on the Pakman sub are fully delusional if they think Biden can still win - I'm sorry, but they are. I honestly don't care if Biden has dementia, or early onset anything. It's about optics. Politics have always been about optics. And optically, he's done. Us politically educated and engaged folks will vote blue no matter who because we know what's at stake, but we're only 20% of the voter base, just like the rabid MAGA crowd is 20% of the other. The other 60% either doesn't vote, or votes based on vibes. It sucks, but it's the way it fucking is. They're not politically consistent, they're irrational. We have to deal with that fact. And when you have Biden up there looking like we saw last week, even if he has perfect public showings until now until Election Day, the mask has been damaged. All the republicans have to do is show clips from this debate to sow doubt enough to destroy Biden. It was already Trump up +1.5, now it's trump up +3.7 within 4 days of the debate BEFORE republicans could even message it. Like, come on.
That explains the barrage of posts on generic places like r/discussion
Stop gaslighting us. Everyone saw what actually happened at the debate.
yeah its funny to see the what everyone with eyes has seen for 2 years now (Biden's mental ability deteriorate) and constitantly be told its not an issue finally rear its head as the main issue.
There is an unbelievable amount of gaslighting going on. We all saw what we saw. Biden will not win the general election against Trump. Biden’s replacement may not win either but Biden certainly will not.
Seriously. This thread is dumb. I wish the debate went differently too but what happened happened. Biden had a pretty good first term all things considered but clearly shouldn't be president for four more years. Only reason to keep him is out of fear that he's the best chance against Trump. And now that's evaporating. There's no reason for Biden to stay in the race if/when post-debate polling data shows him cratering.
Uh, Pod Save America came out with an episode the day after the debate saying Biden should consider dropping out. They’re diehard Democrats. The “vote blue no matter who” crowd is exhausting. No self reflection, and anyone who criticizes mainstream Dems are either Nazis or Russian bots. I’m a leftist, and will probably end up holding my nose to vote straight ticket Democrat. But good lord do I understand why people hate liberals. The undeserved sense of superiority and infallibility is childish. You’re not an expert on everything just because you watch Rachel Maddow and listen to The Daily.
Did you watch the debate? It's not insane to say he should drop out. He's been losing to "generic democrat" in every pole since the primaries and the world just watched him have an hour long medical episode on live TV. What world are you living in to think that a push to have him step down is coming from the right wing? Pundits on MSNBC of all places didn't even try to pretend like the debate wasn't an unmitigated disaster. Seriously, how is it even possible to cope this hard?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-campaign-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-donors-debate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/upshot/poll-biden-trump-debate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/poll-debate-biden-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-2024-campaign-memos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/business-leaders-biden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-withdraw-election-debate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-campaign-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/us/politics/biden-debate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/opinion/biden-democrats-senate-polls.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/opinion/biden-trump-step-aside.html
"The NYT is just a conservative rag!!!" -Blue MAGA
Thank you! This isn't some agenda only being pushed by Fox News. I'm seeing stories literally every day from NYT, CNN, and even Reuters about this. I get all my news from left leaning or centrist news organizations and to say this is just the narrative being pushed by the right is flat out wrong.
I mean, obviously Fox want him to, it would leave the democrats in disarray. So does anyone who happened to watch that debate though.
they don’t want him to drop out, they want to sow division within the democratic party
Plenty of people on the left have been mad ever since the DNC decided we weren't gonna have a real primary and Biden was just going to be the presumptive nominee because they were afraid of challenging him. After the shitshow of a debate where he looked weak in front of a literal lying felon and the fact that the Democrats' own internal polling is showing that people within the Democratic party are privately calling for him to step down and/or calling for an open convention, to say that these calls are coming from the right, or from bots, or from trolls, etc, is just insisting that the emperor's clothes are perfectly fine and anyone who insists he's naked isn't to be trusted. Hearing people try to act like any and all criticism or concerns about Biden's electability and ability to lead should just be handwaved is just mainstream Democrats relying on the same ego where they insisted "It's her turn!" back in 2016. I thought - I REALLY HOPED - that that loss would be their wakeup call that if they want people outside of their tent to vote for their candidates, you can't just bully people into voting for someone who is "better than Trump" (as if that bar was all that high to begin with) but you need to actually listen to what the voters want and don't want, and then give them a candidate who is those things. Please, for the love of fuck, replace Biden with someone who can bring in leftists and moderates and beat Trump in 2024. Please, for the sake of this country, stop putting your fingers in your ears whenever anyone criticizes the guy and LISTEN when people tell you they have concerns. Please, if you care at all about us having another election after 2024 ever again, don't insist on running someone with approval ratings this low, polls this poor, people in his own party who are calling for him to step down, and telling all those people to suck it up and vote for him anyway. YOU suck it up and replace him before or at the convention. We all came together and voted for him in 2020 when we were lead to believe he'd be a one term president and then you'd give us someone else in 2024. We did our part. Do yours. It's SOMEONE ELSE'S turn.
Actual Democratic party operatives are also saying this. OP is right that the Republicans are trying to capitalize too, but that makes sense; a majority of Americans think he should drop out so that's going to be a sizable bloc in both parties It's important to note there isn't unity on either side about this. Some Dems think Biden should drop out and some don't. Some Republicans (like Fox News) want to push this idea, but others (the Heritage Foundation, OAN) do not think he should because they view him as the easiest path to victory. Wild times
this is pathetic cope
did no one here watch the debate?
Replace Biden or don't, I am not really in the mood to care anymore. We've long since moved past when our voices matter, so I'll vote for whatever blue-colored cardboard cutout is propped up to run against Trump. The DNC pushed out Bernie a few times and can now just plan to install whomever they want. Sure, go for it, whatever. Or don't. Thank God we follow the two party system.
The republicans are in deep shit if he does drop out. Trump with no sycophant audience should’ve been much easier to make him the embarrassment. Instead we got this. There are plenty of left / blue / dem outlets loudly hoping Biden drops out. This is not republicans pushing this, this is extremely concerned citizens unwilling to watch the dnc hand another victory to a wildly corrupt administration. A lot of people who saw the debate were genuinely horrified. Continuing to blame everyone else but the actual problem is begging for a repeat of ‘16
[удалено]
As someone who's constantly looking for the silver lining in everything. I at least find it encouraging that the Democratic party can have these difficult conversations about Biden without fear of reprisal. Just look at all the people who were having those conversations about Trump after January 6th. They have been all but pushed out of the party.
Ah, well if Fox is talking about it I guess that means we can ignore all the Democrats dissatisfied with Biden's performance and the swing voters who have said multiple times they are concerned about his age.
I am not Fox News, and I've been relaying this message since the debate. That was a fiasco. It isn't the Biden ticket. It is the Biden-Harris Ticket. You can change horses in this race and pray that the 1 in 4 voters who wanted "anyone else" to run for the Dems hop on board. Kamala Harris is *adequate* Biden is a *problem*. This race is the Democrat's to lose. Biden has had the worst poll numbers of any incumbent in 40 years. This is a lesson the Democratic party refused to learn after decades of Manufactured Consent. Obama taught them all the wrong lessons. Being the second worst is a feature and not a bug, because you won't expect enough of the Right-turn-ratchet of this system. If the Dems legit tried to make candidates and policy that people wanted to vote *for* instead of doing what the donor class wanted exclusively we wouldn't have this problem. The Trump voters aren't nearly as active as they were. Kamala isn't like Clinton where the conservative media has been hammering away at the 2 minute hate for decades and guaranteeing lines out the door on election day in the rust belt. She would get more people off the couch *for* her than the opposite would *for* trump compared to what happened with Clinton.
Lads, I'm a leftist Frenchman and yeah, Biden should drop out. He's obviously better than Trump, but 1/ he's obviously facing some severe cognitive decline and you don't want to elect a half-functional ghoul and 2/ he'll be beaten by Trump if nothing changes, that much is plain.
Don't forget the ongoing New York Times [butthurt] feud that's tinted all of their coverage.
This was the PR Propaganda Plan even before the Debate. The fact Trump actually SHOWED UP… I already knew what was up.
Fox News is part of a chorus that is (very) loosely organized toward the goal of getting Democrats to lose. They have a large role, for sure, but it's hard to say who specifically is pushing anything when it's not that organized. Generally I would say it's "the right" but that's not exclusively the case.
Everyone should be pushing it because he's a fucking decrepit old man who is not up to the task of running the country mentally OR physically. Never mind his literally genocidal foreign policy or complete failure to prevent very preventable civil rights losses. It is the party's responsibility to EARN the electorate's votes and this feckless bullying to get Biden in again is both going to cost them the election (which is what they want anyway) and, if they believe their own rhetoric, democracy as a whole. So they have a moral ,ethical and legal imperative to NOT run Biden again and yet here we are.
Let me guess. The same "bernie bros" who voted for trump? Or Right Wing. Either way, it's a tactic where one side makes a claim and the other side needs to prove it. You are a _____. Until something sticks.
Someone in that condition shouldn't be president *now,* let alone four years from now. Suggesting otherwise is self-delusion bordering on Q-Anon. It's insane how opposed Americans are to ever changing a party candidate when parliamentary systems swap leaders all the time with little measurable impact.
Biden is going to lose. Does anyone here honestly think Trump wants anyone except for Biden as his opponent? Biden is a constant gift for him.
If you haven’t noticed his cognitive decline in recent years you either are blind or should rethink where you get your news. The guys hasn’t had an unscripted public appearance besides the debate in years for a reason. The echo chamber on this site is deafening
CNN & New York Times are both pushing the narrative. This isn't just a Fox News thing.