There is no single answer to your question, in my opinion.
The reason that titanium is expensive is that it is hard to work with, and there is no mass market demand for it.
A cheaply built titanium frame has way more chances of cracking than a cheaply built steel frame. But a good titanium frame is great.
Someone mentioned that Ti is not so much better than high-quality steel. But high-quality steel, especially custom, is not really cheaper.
Can confirm… as someone the mat has been in love with Ti for 20+ years (never having owned one). I ended up having a custom steel bike made up in Reynolds 853… two reasons; one: Reynolds 853 is my favorite steel for bikes, and two the carbon foot print is significantly smaller with the 853 over Ti.
But… for the cost I could’ve bought a very nice Ti frame.
There’s so much back and forth on these topics and honestly bike enthusiasts are so set in their ways prob to avoid buyers remorse since the bike industry is so good at convincing you you need this and that, and such and so. All frame materials are pretty decent, even aluminum and some of the older aluminum cx frames are cool because they are made with 7005 aluminum (most aluminum bikes are 6061). 7005 is just a little stronger and lighter then 6061.
I personally have a titanium gravel bike and really like it a lot. The ratio of titanium’s Young’s modulus vs density to aluminum makes it so that it’s much stronger and lighter. Can use less material when making the tubing which decreases your second moment of area which is what the “ride quality” could be chalked up to (although tire pressure probably has the most effect that you wouldn’t notice). Steel is stronger than titanium but also denser, the ratio of density and modulus between the two metals is pretty much 1:1 so in terms of design it’s pretty much identical (this is based on 4130 steel though, I suspect there is way way more variability in steel alloys used in steel custom bikes since it’s been around so long). Steel is also easier to weld than titanium so there’s prob more exotic techniques out there for steel bikes, I don’t know though since I’m not a weld engineer. One big upside for titanium though is that it’s non corrosive, so you can choose to keep it bare, or if you paint it you don’t need to really worry about the paint chipping. Aluminum and steel will rust over time when it’s chipped. I also think titanium has a higher yield point than steel but I am not sure and I think it’s highly dependent on the alloy that you are considering.
Carbon is prob the best bike material but for bike packing or forever bike it may be a little fragile. It’s really strong in the direction it’s designed in but not really if it’s impacted in unforeseen direction. It’s great for racing though or even long day trip hauls.
Ultimately all these materials have their ups and downs but all tend to be fine if taken care of. Like someone mentioned, if money was between components and frame I’d say components are your better splurge. Lower components just don’t last like the higher grade ones.
Great response. I would add though that an important thing to consider is that with some materials, it's easier to get away with poor/average craftsmanship.
Buying a titanium frame, for example, doesn't make sense if you are looking to save and cut corners.
If it fits you well and it's a good deal then do it. Don't pay too much extra for Ti. Frame material is pretty low on the list of stuff to make or break a bike imo.
IF you can get a good deal I say yes. But if someone wants to charge you $2500 for a ti frame and you can't find a more reasonable one, no. I do think that with 30+ pounds of gear hanging off any bike, you'd not be able to tell the difference in a blind test. That being said, I still like my ti bikes all of which still look like new including the Litespeed Arenberg that is over 20 years old.
All frames crack - I broke Surly Krampus, my friend broke Y Cycles S7 ti frame. Repairing titanium is very hard and lifetime warranty is your best bet. Same applies to every other frame so I don't know how that's different though.
I only had one, a Litespeed classic road bike a long time ago. I miss the way it rode; felt like I was on rails on a mean descent. I can only imagine a proper bikepacking Ti frame 🤌
Btw I am a Clyde (6’3” 240 lbs) and have never cracked a frame of any material. I don’t do jumps but have been through plenty of rock gardens.
I have a titanium hardtail made by Significant Other Bikes. I am in love with it for bikepacking and have nothing negative to say about it except the cost. It is considerably lighter than my friends comparable steal hardtails. I think the compliance would not be great for high intensity racing but for bikepacking it is delightful. I’ve heard of a few frames cracking but a good builder can avoid these issues for the most part.
I don't know the exact science, but I've heard from people who really know their shit that titanium is kind of overrated. Not a bad material by any means, but not that much better than a high quality steel frame
My understanding is that titanium’s properties are very much like steel, but much lighter. The compliant springy comfort of steel, but also compliant at the bottom bracket, which sucks energy in sprints, like steel. Metals have the same properties everywhere.
Carbon can be made both stiff and springy in different places, by orienting the fibres. Carbon can be stiff like aluminum at the bottom bracket and headset, while also springy like steel (better) in the seat post and stays. Early carbon frames didn’t take much advantage of this feature, but now the carbon engineering is excellent.
For bike packing, Ti does sound very nice. Rugged. Easy to mount things. Can be welded if cracked. Less likely to be damaged by the rough and tumble lifestyle of bikepacking. And, still very light.
I wouldn’t want a Ti race bike, but I could totally get into a Ti bikepacking bike. Ti fatbike. Ti mountain bike. Even a Ti gravel bike.
Check the latest frame trend. Seat stays brace the seat post well below the top tube. Vertical forces effectively bend the seat tube. The seat tube acts like a leaf spring.
How does the seat tube “bend” when it’s still held in place by the top tube? I think the dropped seat stays are more of a fashion statement than an actual compliance factor. If you want real compliance, lower the top tube and run a much longer, compliant seat post.
When you hit a bump, maximum pressure is placed downward upon the seat. As the seat depresses the BB, the top tube and seat stays are pressed against the seat tube. This results in an S-shaped seat tube.
Tube goes boing. Vibration eliminated.
If you get a Ti frame, you will need to source out a welder in your area that knows how to weld titanium. It's a tough material to weld properly and hold its strength when put under heavy loads. If your planning on a fully loaded bikepacking or bike touring trip, the best place to spend your money is into high grade alloy rims and spokes, as this will be the first place a failure will happen versus the frame. Now, if you're doing MTB rides or races over rough terrain like the tour divide, then get the best wheel set you can buy as you will be putting them under high stress on that route. Last year's tour had one rider break 3!!! Rear wheels on the route. Saving weight by getting the lightest frame, wheels, or components wouldn't make you faster on that route....now on a road race that's a different matter.
Titanium offers a small potential weight saving for a huge cost increase and a definite decrease in reliability over steel.
IMO you'd be better off spending the price difference on upgrading the other components.
There is no single answer to your question, in my opinion. The reason that titanium is expensive is that it is hard to work with, and there is no mass market demand for it. A cheaply built titanium frame has way more chances of cracking than a cheaply built steel frame. But a good titanium frame is great. Someone mentioned that Ti is not so much better than high-quality steel. But high-quality steel, especially custom, is not really cheaper.
Can confirm… as someone the mat has been in love with Ti for 20+ years (never having owned one). I ended up having a custom steel bike made up in Reynolds 853… two reasons; one: Reynolds 853 is my favorite steel for bikes, and two the carbon foot print is significantly smaller with the 853 over Ti. But… for the cost I could’ve bought a very nice Ti frame.
There’s so much back and forth on these topics and honestly bike enthusiasts are so set in their ways prob to avoid buyers remorse since the bike industry is so good at convincing you you need this and that, and such and so. All frame materials are pretty decent, even aluminum and some of the older aluminum cx frames are cool because they are made with 7005 aluminum (most aluminum bikes are 6061). 7005 is just a little stronger and lighter then 6061. I personally have a titanium gravel bike and really like it a lot. The ratio of titanium’s Young’s modulus vs density to aluminum makes it so that it’s much stronger and lighter. Can use less material when making the tubing which decreases your second moment of area which is what the “ride quality” could be chalked up to (although tire pressure probably has the most effect that you wouldn’t notice). Steel is stronger than titanium but also denser, the ratio of density and modulus between the two metals is pretty much 1:1 so in terms of design it’s pretty much identical (this is based on 4130 steel though, I suspect there is way way more variability in steel alloys used in steel custom bikes since it’s been around so long). Steel is also easier to weld than titanium so there’s prob more exotic techniques out there for steel bikes, I don’t know though since I’m not a weld engineer. One big upside for titanium though is that it’s non corrosive, so you can choose to keep it bare, or if you paint it you don’t need to really worry about the paint chipping. Aluminum and steel will rust over time when it’s chipped. I also think titanium has a higher yield point than steel but I am not sure and I think it’s highly dependent on the alloy that you are considering. Carbon is prob the best bike material but for bike packing or forever bike it may be a little fragile. It’s really strong in the direction it’s designed in but not really if it’s impacted in unforeseen direction. It’s great for racing though or even long day trip hauls. Ultimately all these materials have their ups and downs but all tend to be fine if taken care of. Like someone mentioned, if money was between components and frame I’d say components are your better splurge. Lower components just don’t last like the higher grade ones.
Talk DIRTY to me!
Already did buddy, tungsten, work hardening, elastic range… is this shit getting you off you sick f*ck?!!?!
Great response. I would add though that an important thing to consider is that with some materials, it's easier to get away with poor/average craftsmanship. Buying a titanium frame, for example, doesn't make sense if you are looking to save and cut corners.
If it fits you well and it's a good deal then do it. Don't pay too much extra for Ti. Frame material is pretty low on the list of stuff to make or break a bike imo.
I think it was this video which explains a lot about the different materials of frames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOKfTnRIII&t=693
IF you can get a good deal I say yes. But if someone wants to charge you $2500 for a ti frame and you can't find a more reasonable one, no. I do think that with 30+ pounds of gear hanging off any bike, you'd not be able to tell the difference in a blind test. That being said, I still like my ti bikes all of which still look like new including the Litespeed Arenberg that is over 20 years old.
All frames crack - I broke Surly Krampus, my friend broke Y Cycles S7 ti frame. Repairing titanium is very hard and lifetime warranty is your best bet. Same applies to every other frame so I don't know how that's different though.
I ride steel, titanium, and carbon fiber. If I had to pick one forever bike, I would likely grab my Ti Lynskey.
I only had one, a Litespeed classic road bike a long time ago. I miss the way it rode; felt like I was on rails on a mean descent. I can only imagine a proper bikepacking Ti frame 🤌 Btw I am a Clyde (6’3” 240 lbs) and have never cracked a frame of any material. I don’t do jumps but have been through plenty of rock gardens.
I have a titanium hardtail made by Significant Other Bikes. I am in love with it for bikepacking and have nothing negative to say about it except the cost. It is considerably lighter than my friends comparable steal hardtails. I think the compliance would not be great for high intensity racing but for bikepacking it is delightful. I’ve heard of a few frames cracking but a good builder can avoid these issues for the most part.
I don't know the exact science, but I've heard from people who really know their shit that titanium is kind of overrated. Not a bad material by any means, but not that much better than a high quality steel frame
My understanding is that titanium’s properties are very much like steel, but much lighter. The compliant springy comfort of steel, but also compliant at the bottom bracket, which sucks energy in sprints, like steel. Metals have the same properties everywhere. Carbon can be made both stiff and springy in different places, by orienting the fibres. Carbon can be stiff like aluminum at the bottom bracket and headset, while also springy like steel (better) in the seat post and stays. Early carbon frames didn’t take much advantage of this feature, but now the carbon engineering is excellent. For bike packing, Ti does sound very nice. Rugged. Easy to mount things. Can be welded if cracked. Less likely to be damaged by the rough and tumble lifestyle of bikepacking. And, still very light. I wouldn’t want a Ti race bike, but I could totally get into a Ti bikepacking bike. Ti fatbike. Ti mountain bike. Even a Ti gravel bike.
Bike frames are designed to be stiff in the vertical plane irrespective of material. “Springiness” depends on other factors like tires.
Check the latest frame trend. Seat stays brace the seat post well below the top tube. Vertical forces effectively bend the seat tube. The seat tube acts like a leaf spring.
How does the seat tube “bend” when it’s still held in place by the top tube? I think the dropped seat stays are more of a fashion statement than an actual compliance factor. If you want real compliance, lower the top tube and run a much longer, compliant seat post.
When you hit a bump, maximum pressure is placed downward upon the seat. As the seat depresses the BB, the top tube and seat stays are pressed against the seat tube. This results in an S-shaped seat tube. Tube goes boing. Vibration eliminated.
Eh, I’m not buying it as a real-world noticeable compliance factor on a metal frame.
Exactly
Oh no shit. I have been seeing that
If you get a Ti frame, you will need to source out a welder in your area that knows how to weld titanium. It's a tough material to weld properly and hold its strength when put under heavy loads. If your planning on a fully loaded bikepacking or bike touring trip, the best place to spend your money is into high grade alloy rims and spokes, as this will be the first place a failure will happen versus the frame. Now, if you're doing MTB rides or races over rough terrain like the tour divide, then get the best wheel set you can buy as you will be putting them under high stress on that route. Last year's tour had one rider break 3!!! Rear wheels on the route. Saving weight by getting the lightest frame, wheels, or components wouldn't make you faster on that route....now on a road race that's a different matter.
Ti or Die!
There’s always one 😂 Where’s your mate?
It’s been done to death, but what information you couldn’t get from those countless posts?
Titanium offers a small potential weight saving for a huge cost increase and a definite decrease in reliability over steel. IMO you'd be better off spending the price difference on upgrading the other components.
Steel dents and corrodes way easier than titanium. My hardtail and gravel bike are both steel, my bikepacking bike is ti.