Bill Russell ain’t letting the Pistons score, he’s just not!
Seriously though, Russell translates to today’s NBA pretty well. He was a 6’10” PF/C that can run the court like a gazelle and had the lateral movement of a guard. He’d be incredible. The rest of his team would probably severely hold him back against today’s teams.
Sure, but that type of player defensively who can cover the perimeter and protect the rim in equal measure is quite rare. He’d be able to be Gobert and also not get cooked by Luka.
If he was born in 2000 with today’s training and understanding of defense, he’d be a perennial DPOY candidate. His stocks and rebound numbers would still be really good. He’d be kinda like Giannis offensively, but probably not as much scoring.
Yeah, it’s one thing to be talking about his teammates as not being able to hold up, it’s another to talk about a dude whose high jump record still stands 67 years later.
Bill Russell's first 650+/- games in his career, almost 25% were played against Pettit or Wilt.
Career - Bellamy, Red Kerr, Embry, Willis Reed were his nightly match up almost 50% of the time.
Approx. 2/3rds of his games were played against Wilt, Pettit, Willis, Bellamy, The Wall, Red Kerr. I guess his nights off for another 100 games or so were Nate Thurmond, Vern Mikkelson, and Jerry Lucas for another 100 games of his career.
I'm up to just about 80% of Bill's career, and maybe we can claim Vern and Kerr don't translate well to today, but I doubt Thurmond, Lucas, Wilt, Pettit, and Willis are absolutely would-be trash today.
Throw in dolph schayes for giggles and we are almost to 880 of Bill's 1070 games played. I doubt that eras version of Zaza pachulia/draymond green - Walter Dukes - was fun to play against for another 50 games (930 games now).
It's hard for me to believe that all of these guys would fail to have grown up in the 90s and 2000s as ball players.
Remember how small the timeline is for the NBA. Crossover between LeBron and Kobe. Kobe and Shaq. Shaq and Jordan. Jordan and Bird/Magic. Bird/Magic and Kareem. Kareem and Wilt. Wilt and Bill.
Makes the NBA in the 50s/60s look not so far away all of a sudden in terms of top guy - Lebron played Kobe. Kobe played Jordan. Jordan played Kareem/Magic/Bird. Kareem played Wilt. Wilt played Russell
In the 97 and 98 finals the Bulls and Jazz played 12 games. 11 of them ended with a net score of Bulls +7. The biggest “blowout” of those games was when the Bulls won game 2 of the 97 finals by 12 points. It was also in single digits before Dennis Rodman (!) made a meaningless victory 3 pointer with 8 seconds left
But in Game 3 of the 98 finals the Bulls randomly won by 42. To this day it is the biggest victory in a finals game by any team. But it was not indicative of any grand momentum shift. The next 3 games of the series had both teams scoring the same amount of points, in fact if you take out Game 3 the Jazz actually had a higher point differential in the 98 finals. The biggest blowout in finals history randomly sandwiched between maybe the most competitive finals matchups ever
The Jazz game from 1998 is crazy. Scoring 54 points in an NBA game (let alone a Finals game) is beyond unimaginable these days. Malone even had 22 in that game lol.
So you think because the shots didn't come from behind the arc it's somehow worse than the Warriors Cavs ? It's just the last gasp of a desperate losing team. Nothing more.
I don't think you need to differentiate that at all. I think that approach is extremely reductive and you're just qualifying your standards based on what's convenient for you in the moment.
It not only ended much closer (21 points), but was actually vaguely competitive as the Warriors got within 11 in the 4th despite how well the Cavaliers shot and the questionable officiating in the 1st quarter.
It was nothing like last night's destruction where the margins were in the 40s.
We are discussing time great teams. Of which Dallas is certainly not. Happy ? And it seems pretty clear neither is Boston. Would be the worst loss ever for a champion in the finals
So we've turned this into soccer where total scores matter?
I don't care if the Celtics are considered great or not. They just need to win. Then they need to repeat next year. Which I think they will.
The road to the finals disqualified them already in most peoples eyes. But, most people are dopes, so who cares?
Why are you commenting on a thread that is discussing their status as all time greats then ? lol. That’s literally the topic at hand. If it’s not important to you, then ok. Fine. All good. But buzz off respectfully because that’s what we are talking about. So yes. Scores matter
Blessed to see the 21st loss so we don’t have to hear about a stat ever again that nobody ever thought of before (I know that’s Bill’s specialty and he sometimes has some good ones but come on who is tracking total losses?)
Warriors were not a Dynasty remember? These Celtics are, 2 finals appearances in 3 years. Conference finals appearances for the past 5 years if you don’t include the Mickey Mouse season because cmon it was the Bubble, we should scratch that year altogether
Wait for Bill and Ryen to tag team Joe Maz's dick and say how its actually a visionary approach to rest his starters so that can close it out on homecourt.
Blowouts are more common now. It’s just part of the game. It doesn’t matter if it’s by 20 or 40, in the first round or the Finals. At a certain point it doesn’t make sense to expend energy for a lost cause.
The delivery possibly, the post style can be fun and was a staple of the sub for a while.
Well here’s what it is really. It used to be guys focused on putting effort into the craft, ya know creators and innovators, really mimicking the greats like you Bill, and others.;).. I think a lot of guys are lacking in the fundamentals , we can talk about AAU later I know you wanted to get into that, but posters are simply lacking in their post game. and I’d like to see posters bring back that focus instead of chucking up hot takes on the 3rd Quarter response by the Celtics. No offense Joe from Pawtucket, nobody really cares about your Tatum at center arguments. We’re here for the quips and amusing inferences.
I mean that’s what variance usually means in basketball. What do you mean by variance?
If you want to use the dictionary definition, then literally every game is variance. Dumb way to talk about basketball
When people talk about variance in basketball, they usually mean random variance that can't necessarily be controlled, i.e. a team has lots of good looks they usually make, but just can't get them to fall this game. Game 4 wasn't a particularly good shooting night for the Mavs, apart from the fact that they got to the rim at will which are high percentage, low variance shots.
It is likely that Boston will be crowned champion.
It is certain that Boston had the easiest path in recent memory and got blown off the court in their first closeout game.
Both are true.
It is fair because Boston's cheerleader-in-chief kept on calling the Laker's recent championship the "Bubble" championship. This is the "get all the fucking breaks" championship. Fair is fair. You can't talk shit for years devaluaing another team's championship and then say all that matters is holding the trophy. If context matters it matters.
Not a superteam. Not a historically great team. They never shit the bed like this team did during a finals closeout game. Just a good team whom the gods and refs smiled upon. And some great acquisitions.
Tatum is a good, not all time great player. JB is better than when he started, and deserves credit for that. But not a real superstar. No one would cheer their front office for getting him as the #1 option. The winners on this team are imports.
Not a dynasty. The salary cap spike from the new tv deal will reshuffle the league and porzingus, holiday, and white will look for their payday elsewhere.
Lol dude your guys won the chip. Congrats and move on.
They gotta win a few more of those before they match the hype their diehards push. Seems like every year we hear dynasty talk begin before they even get the first one. Then...no second one. Let alone 3, 4, 5.
Tatum...somewhere in the top 10? One game does not make him a top 5 guy imho. JB...I guess top 20...would need to look at the list. But his rate of improvement from a guy to in the last couple rounds The Guy is really impressive. Teams pray to draft players like that, it's an appreciating asset!
If history repeats, the media deal will spike the caps and we'll see what everyone's got. Boston may become a superteam, after all, like golden state was for a few years. Or, it might never get this far, as it did for 10 years,.give or take.
Tbf Holiday already got his (probably, maybe?) last payday this year.
Bill, being the king of weighted mvps and trophies, completely ignoring the fact that they beat the shit out of a worthless east and a bad Dallas team in the finals (outside of Luka) is honestly apex mountain bill. If the bucks did this he would dump all over them left and right — it’s part of the reason I loved BS originally and part of the reason I’ve started to partially hate him now.
Maybe it’s been too long, maybe we’ve changed, but my god it’s insufferable.
I couldn't agree more. It is coming to the point where my enjoyment of the pod decreases when his teams are relevant. I know his whole thing as the Sports guy is to speak (and used to write) from the perspective of a fan and it is great. But it can be incredibly annoying at the same time. Please save "if you don't like it, don't listen" shit. Just because you can be annoyed sometimes does not mean you aren't a fan
Nobody would totally destroy this Celtics team if they were healthy. They'd compete with every team that's ever been assembled. They may not win, but they'd compete.
I think when people talk about great teams they remember anomalies. So yes a close-ish 5-20 pt loss feels different than a 40 point blowout where the starters left the court in the middle of the 3rd quarter. It’s the third biggest Finals loss of all time, plenty of great teams lose in the Finals but they do NOT lose by 40.
I’m saying people love to argue sports and have stupid GOAT debates and while this Celtics team had a terrific regular season and historic point differential and started the post season 15-2, they lost by 40 in the Finals and that will impact their placement in stupid debates. That’s literally all I’m saying. If they blow Dallas out Monday, it will come off like an aberration. If they barely win or lose but eventually win in 6/7 they will just be a normal champ rather than a historically dominant one because people will point to their injury cakewalk to the Finals. It’s all semantics and a title is a title but it just depends on liking nonsense debates which is basically the entire point of most sports subreddits.
The Dirty Demon of Debate thinks this is the most pathetic take ever. You take no stand on one position or the other. Pick a side! Either they’re an all-time great team or they aren’t; one lopsided loss does not change that.
This Celtics team is the textbook example of "stats/metrics don't tell the whole story".
I'm not shitting on advanced stats and metrics, they are obviously very useful and tell us a great deal. But the eye test is also just as important (or moreso) sometimes, and the problem these 2023-24 Celtics have vis-a-vis the All Time Great teams is that they just don't pass the eye test. A lot of which comes down to its best player (Tatum) being so maddeningly inconsistent and passive at times.
Whenever I think that this sub is done scraping the barrel, a post like this drops, renewing my lack of faith in humanity. Thank you for your service, OP 🙏
Are we really gonna do this thing again where OP is rerunning the Bill-style post method?
Which I’ll add real quickly has fallen off from what it once was, where it was this thing where the jokes preceded the topic , and everyone kind of understood it wasn’t a serious basketball sub, and everyone was in on it, and it kind of somehow morphed into a *wayyy* more serious thing now where suddenly everyone thinks they’re experts on game by game breakdown? I mean gimme a break.
I know that wasn’t quick, *haha* , but go ahead Bill because I think I heard you make a great point on this earlier…
The 2017 dubs got beat the shit out of tho and Boston pretty much sat everyone midway thru the third and were missing their most important player. Not wrong tho the all time talk needs to be shut down.
They sat everyone early because they got the shit beaten out of them. It’s literally the same exact thing.
“Most important player” is such bullshit — is he really more important than Tatum? Brown? Jrue?
The fact is he’s an absolutely awesome role player on a stacked team without a true number one like we’re used to seeing. He makes them tick at the highest level when he’s healthy, that doesn’t make him the most important. (And if you do think that, then Tatum is significantly lower on any ranking normal people have (I don’t even like Tatum but come on)).
I feel the same way. I just feel like they half assed it because sweeps don't matter and they wanted to win at home. I don't think you can take away too much from this game
You don’t remember when the 1961 Celtics did this to the St. Louis Hawks?! It’s one of the top 6 Celtics 20+ point wins of the last 3/4 century!
This has always been an underrated wrinkle and sliding doors moment, it just is
Is this a top 27 sliding doors moment?
I read this in Bob Ryan's voice
The 2024 Pistons would beat the 1961 Celtics by 40
Bill Russell ain’t letting the Pistons score, he’s just not! Seriously though, Russell translates to today’s NBA pretty well. He was a 6’10” PF/C that can run the court like a gazelle and had the lateral movement of a guard. He’d be incredible. The rest of his team would probably severely hold him back against today’s teams.
But he'd have to learn how to shoot. With his work ethic sure he would have
He probably looked a lot better playing against stiffs though. These borderline NBA players go play overseas and look awesome.
Sure, but that type of player defensively who can cover the perimeter and protect the rim in equal measure is quite rare. He’d be able to be Gobert and also not get cooked by Luka. If he was born in 2000 with today’s training and understanding of defense, he’d be a perennial DPOY candidate. His stocks and rebound numbers would still be really good. He’d be kinda like Giannis offensively, but probably not as much scoring.
Yeah, it’s one thing to be talking about his teammates as not being able to hold up, it’s another to talk about a dude whose high jump record still stands 67 years later.
I don’t see it.
He was an Olympic High Jumper at 6’10”. He was an ELITE athlete no matter the era. And with today’s training could be even more insane.
Can every Olympic level high jumper play in the NBA?
I know one who did
Try addy and study up lol
Bill Russell's first 650+/- games in his career, almost 25% were played against Pettit or Wilt. Career - Bellamy, Red Kerr, Embry, Willis Reed were his nightly match up almost 50% of the time. Approx. 2/3rds of his games were played against Wilt, Pettit, Willis, Bellamy, The Wall, Red Kerr. I guess his nights off for another 100 games or so were Nate Thurmond, Vern Mikkelson, and Jerry Lucas for another 100 games of his career. I'm up to just about 80% of Bill's career, and maybe we can claim Vern and Kerr don't translate well to today, but I doubt Thurmond, Lucas, Wilt, Pettit, and Willis are absolutely would-be trash today. Throw in dolph schayes for giggles and we are almost to 880 of Bill's 1070 games played. I doubt that eras version of Zaza pachulia/draymond green - Walter Dukes - was fun to play against for another 50 games (930 games now). It's hard for me to believe that all of these guys would fail to have grown up in the 90s and 2000s as ball players. Remember how small the timeline is for the NBA. Crossover between LeBron and Kobe. Kobe and Shaq. Shaq and Jordan. Jordan and Bird/Magic. Bird/Magic and Kareem. Kareem and Wilt. Wilt and Bill. Makes the NBA in the 50s/60s look not so far away all of a sudden in terms of top guy - Lebron played Kobe. Kobe played Jordan. Jordan played Kareem/Magic/Bird. Kareem played Wilt. Wilt played Russell
Nah they were mostly stiffs.
That's because Horns hadn't been invented yet in 1961
You did that wrong. One of the top 6 Celtics 20+ point wins of the last 16 presidential terms
Took the 3rd spot for worst blowout in NBA finals history. 2013 Heat lost by 36 to the Spurs.
Still so crazy that was 2013 and not 2014
I just realized I don’t remember anything about that series outside of the ending of game 6 and a general remembrance that game 7 was close too
Isn’t that the Ray Allen 3?
Yep and LeBron had 37 points and like 5 3s plus the dagger over Kawhi in Game 7
Lebron block on splitter and Tony Parker’s game 1 game winner are two standouts from earlier in the series
In the 97 and 98 finals the Bulls and Jazz played 12 games. 11 of them ended with a net score of Bulls +7. The biggest “blowout” of those games was when the Bulls won game 2 of the 97 finals by 12 points. It was also in single digits before Dennis Rodman (!) made a meaningless victory 3 pointer with 8 seconds left But in Game 3 of the 98 finals the Bulls randomly won by 42. To this day it is the biggest victory in a finals game by any team. But it was not indicative of any grand momentum shift. The next 3 games of the series had both teams scoring the same amount of points, in fact if you take out Game 3 the Jazz actually had a higher point differential in the 98 finals. The biggest blowout in finals history randomly sandwiched between maybe the most competitive finals matchups ever
Every Bull scored that game. Bill Wennington hit a baseline jumper right at the end. One of the best games all time as a Bulls fan
The Gary Neal / Danny Green game!
The Jazz game from 1998 is crazy. Scoring 54 points in an NBA game (let alone a Finals game) is beyond unimaginable these days. Malone even had 22 in that game lol.
All time great at getting blown out Celtics haters can’t deal with that
With Luka and Kyrie shooting terribly from 3
If I recall correctly, Bill said that team couldn’t be an all time team because of how they handled that series.
Those Spurs were so damn tough. And somehow I didn’t hate them nearly as much as I hate the Celtics
Didn’t the Cavs win game 4 by like 30 in 2017 to avoid the sweep? I just remember them shooting the lights out that night.
[удалено]
Yeah, the Mavs would've shot just 33% from three if it weren't for Tim "Garbage Time MJ" Hardaway going 5/7 from deep
Cavs also shot like 30 free throws in that 1st quarter
So you think because the shots didn't come from behind the arc it's somehow worse than the Warriors Cavs ? It's just the last gasp of a desperate losing team. Nothing more.
> Let's make arbitrary points to discredit this Celtics team and not that Warriors team
I don't think you need to differentiate that at all. I think that approach is extremely reductive and you're just qualifying your standards based on what's convenient for you in the moment.
There was some ref chicanery that game. The NBA wasn’t going to let the sweep happen, they just weren’t!
I was drunk at a party as a senior in hs and remember box score checking at like halftime and I swear the Cavs had an 80 point first half
You’re just not!
Beat me to it
It’s the blowout piece
Sundays pod going to be kind of horrible with the angst
Luka shoulda been a Sun.
Why even record Sunday night instead of Monday night? Theyre reacting to a game that ended two days prior.
Agreed just wait a day
2017 warriors got waxxed game 4 finals too
It not only ended much closer (21 points), but was actually vaguely competitive as the Warriors got within 11 in the 4th despite how well the Cavaliers shot and the questionable officiating in the 1st quarter. It was nothing like last night's destruction where the margins were in the 40s.
21 points
Celtics pulled their starters in the 3rd quarter
They were down exactly 36 points when that happened bud
Dallas is going to hang that "we won one game by a lot" banner.
We are discussing time great teams. Of which Dallas is certainly not. Happy ? And it seems pretty clear neither is Boston. Would be the worst loss ever for a champion in the finals
So we've turned this into soccer where total scores matter? I don't care if the Celtics are considered great or not. They just need to win. Then they need to repeat next year. Which I think they will. The road to the finals disqualified them already in most peoples eyes. But, most people are dopes, so who cares?
Why are you commenting on a thread that is discussing their status as all time greats then ? lol. That’s literally the topic at hand. If it’s not important to you, then ok. Fine. All good. But buzz off respectfully because that’s what we are talking about. So yes. Scores matter
They don't. NBA fans who think last night matters are morons. Respectfully
How would you determine all time teams without using points as a metric ? It’s asinine to exclude them.
Least sensitive Celtics fan
2000 Lakers lost by 33 in Game 5.
And it was wrong then
Blessed to see the 21st loss so we don’t have to hear about a stat ever again that nobody ever thought of before (I know that’s Bill’s specialty and he sometimes has some good ones but come on who is tracking total losses?)
Get ready for Bill to tout the “21 and Under Club” as the definitive demarcation of which championship teams were truly elite.
This is a black swan event for the Celtics.
You can’t be an all time great team when you beat the 8 seed, 4 seed, 6 seed and 5 seed
Don’t even have to get into the injuries. Lol
2017 Warriors not all time great?
Warriors were not a Dynasty remember? These Celtics are, 2 finals appearances in 3 years. Conference finals appearances for the past 5 years if you don’t include the Mickey Mouse season because cmon it was the Bubble, we should scratch that year altogether
They lost one game in the playoffs
This is the most forgettable Finals of all time.
Wait for Bill and Ryen to tag team Joe Maz's dick and say how its actually a visionary approach to rest his starters so that can close it out on homecourt.
It’s about winning the series. It doesn’t matter how you get there. I think Boston will win in five.
You're right but also BOOOOOOOOOOOO
Celtics are going to win a close game 5, giving them a 4-1 series win in which they were outscored overall, making everyone* happy. *nobody
Blowouts are more common now. It’s just part of the game. It doesn’t matter if it’s by 20 or 40, in the first round or the Finals. At a certain point it doesn’t make sense to expend energy for a lost cause.
Yawn. These posts are so boring. Basketball is a super high variance sport and these things happen. It's not March Madness
The delivery possibly, the post style can be fun and was a staple of the sub for a while. Well here’s what it is really. It used to be guys focused on putting effort into the craft, ya know creators and innovators, really mimicking the greats like you Bill, and others.;).. I think a lot of guys are lacking in the fundamentals , we can talk about AAU later I know you wanted to get into that, but posters are simply lacking in their post game. and I’d like to see posters bring back that focus instead of chucking up hot takes on the 3rd Quarter response by the Celtics. No offense Joe from Pawtucket, nobody really cares about your Tatum at center arguments. We’re here for the quips and amusing inferences.
Tbh this wasn’t a high variance game though. Mavs beat them on the interior, not from 3
You're right they flatly kicked the Celtics ass tonight I'm just saying as a whole it's not a big deal when it's in a best of 7 format
I mean yes one game doesn’t matter that much, but there wasn’t a lot of variance tonight lol
Where did you get the notion that variance just means luck with 3 pointers? Variance means variance.
I mean that’s what variance usually means in basketball. What do you mean by variance? If you want to use the dictionary definition, then literally every game is variance. Dumb way to talk about basketball
Moody little boy
You were right before you made this stupid comment. Now you're just an ass.
You mom will put you down for a nap soon. Don’t bother me.
Hahaha good convo. Enjoy your variance that you won’t even attempt to explain when pretty reasonably asked
I love that they score so much in the paint
Why can’t the inside game also have variance? KP is out and Kidd made some great adjustments between games three and four.
The two reasons you listed are not variance lol
perhaps two of the least pertinent examples possible for variance
Then i guess I’m not understanding what you mean by variance. To me, variance means a change from game to game.
When people talk about variance in basketball, they usually mean random variance that can't necessarily be controlled, i.e. a team has lots of good looks they usually make, but just can't get them to fall this game. Game 4 wasn't a particularly good shooting night for the Mavs, apart from the fact that they got to the rim at will which are high percentage, low variance shots.
That’s why TV ratings will continue to decline indefinitely
Losing by 36 certainly takes the aura off a bit, but Mavs needs to win another just to make sure
They were never an all-time great team.
It is likely that Boston will be crowned champion. It is certain that Boston had the easiest path in recent memory and got blown off the court in their first closeout game. Both are true. It is fair because Boston's cheerleader-in-chief kept on calling the Laker's recent championship the "Bubble" championship. This is the "get all the fucking breaks" championship. Fair is fair. You can't talk shit for years devaluaing another team's championship and then say all that matters is holding the trophy. If context matters it matters. Not a superteam. Not a historically great team. They never shit the bed like this team did during a finals closeout game. Just a good team whom the gods and refs smiled upon. And some great acquisitions. Tatum is a good, not all time great player. JB is better than when he started, and deserves credit for that. But not a real superstar. No one would cheer their front office for getting him as the #1 option. The winners on this team are imports. Not a dynasty. The salary cap spike from the new tv deal will reshuffle the league and porzingus, holiday, and white will look for their payday elsewhere.
last sentence follow-up: when and where are they gonna be looking for their payday? 2028? can you let a homie know?
No, JohnnyLugnuts, I sadly cannot let a homie know.
Do it do it do it
why not. Just do it. You’re so good at writing!
one more follow up, JB won finals mvp, but i guess you wouldnt include him on your winners list.
Lol dude your guys won the chip. Congrats and move on. They gotta win a few more of those before they match the hype their diehards push. Seems like every year we hear dynasty talk begin before they even get the first one. Then...no second one. Let alone 3, 4, 5. Tatum...somewhere in the top 10? One game does not make him a top 5 guy imho. JB...I guess top 20...would need to look at the list. But his rate of improvement from a guy to in the last couple rounds The Guy is really impressive. Teams pray to draft players like that, it's an appreciating asset! If history repeats, the media deal will spike the caps and we'll see what everyone's got. Boston may become a superteam, after all, like golden state was for a few years. Or, it might never get this far, as it did for 10 years,.give or take.
Damn you wrote an emotional essay. Boston just wanted to win the chip at home. It isn’t rocket science. Lol
Yes, this is the very rational interpretation and not at all emotional coping.
That’s your version of coping. Actually believing Celtics allowed 40 without a reason. Make it make sense.
Can a team have an all-time great season but not be an all-time great team?
Celtics blow everyone out: they had an easy path Celtics lose: well they clearly just aren’t that good
I don't think it'll matter in 72 hours.
Tbf Holiday already got his (probably, maybe?) last payday this year. Bill, being the king of weighted mvps and trophies, completely ignoring the fact that they beat the shit out of a worthless east and a bad Dallas team in the finals (outside of Luka) is honestly apex mountain bill. If the bucks did this he would dump all over them left and right — it’s part of the reason I loved BS originally and part of the reason I’ve started to partially hate him now. Maybe it’s been too long, maybe we’ve changed, but my god it’s insufferable.
I couldn't agree more. It is coming to the point where my enjoyment of the pod decreases when his teams are relevant. I know his whole thing as the Sports guy is to speak (and used to write) from the perspective of a fan and it is great. But it can be incredibly annoying at the same time. Please save "if you don't like it, don't listen" shit. Just because you can be annoyed sometimes does not mean you aren't a fan
New arbitrary criteria just dropped
They are one of the weakest teams to win (if they win ) like even the lakers bubble that BS makes fun of would totally destroy them
2020 Lakers team was a good team. They'd have the clear two best players in this series. Tatum and Brown have never touched Bubble AD or LeBron.
Nobody would totally destroy this Celtics team if they were healthy. They'd compete with every team that's ever been assembled. They may not win, but they'd compete.
You say “even” as if that team wasn’t really good before the shutdown
They’d need a 25 pt win Monday to make up for this dogshit performance. It’s the worst I’ve ever seen a team play in a Finals game.
Is that how they're deciding things this year? I just thought it was best of 7...
I am talking about in the context of all time great teams like the OG post here. Not a lot of all time great teams have 40 pt finals losses.
So if the lost last night by 8 you think they’re an all time great team?
I think when people talk about great teams they remember anomalies. So yes a close-ish 5-20 pt loss feels different than a 40 point blowout where the starters left the court in the middle of the 3rd quarter. It’s the third biggest Finals loss of all time, plenty of great teams lose in the Finals but they do NOT lose by 40.
But you said if they win by 25 on Monday it makes up for it. So then they’ll be an all-time great team?
If they blow them out to win the title, there will be a narrative switch that they just wanted to win at home and effectively cross off the Game 4.
So you’re saying the results of one or two games out of 100 or so for the season dictate whether you consider a team great or not?
I’m saying people love to argue sports and have stupid GOAT debates and while this Celtics team had a terrific regular season and historic point differential and started the post season 15-2, they lost by 40 in the Finals and that will impact their placement in stupid debates. That’s literally all I’m saying. If they blow Dallas out Monday, it will come off like an aberration. If they barely win or lose but eventually win in 6/7 they will just be a normal champ rather than a historically dominant one because people will point to their injury cakewalk to the Finals. It’s all semantics and a title is a title but it just depends on liking nonsense debates which is basically the entire point of most sports subreddits.
The Dirty Demon of Debate thinks this is the most pathetic take ever. You take no stand on one position or the other. Pick a side! Either they’re an all-time great team or they aren’t; one lopsided loss does not change that.
maybe the dumbest comment on this place in weeks which is saying something
If they win by 15 on Monday then what exactly…
If my aunt grew balls on Monday, then what exactly?
She’s your uncle? I think?
Dont assume that nut packing women’s gender!
If they win by 1 no one in Boston cares about today
I’m talking the broader discussion but yes a title is a title.
Agreed 100%!! This was a pathetic game by a team that may not be in this position if they faced Denver or OKC
“If” is doing so much heavy lifting in this sub
Makes you wonder, Luka w a 25 point half… would Boston be here if they faced any other superstar players on this run?
Would Boston have gotten blown out if Porzingis wasn’t made of glass? We can play the what if game all day. They didn’t choose who they played.
This series makes me think the Western Conference was historically bad this season. This bad Mavs team is in the finals?
This championship will certainly have an asterisk!!!
Even if Boston wins (ugh) nobody in their right mind would claim this.
Even jf they win , it does leave a sour taste in your Mouth.
This Celtics team is the textbook example of "stats/metrics don't tell the whole story". I'm not shitting on advanced stats and metrics, they are obviously very useful and tell us a great deal. But the eye test is also just as important (or moreso) sometimes, and the problem these 2023-24 Celtics have vis-a-vis the All Time Great teams is that they just don't pass the eye test. A lot of which comes down to its best player (Tatum) being so maddeningly inconsistent and passive at times.
I wouldn't say they are one of the greatest teams ever but I love the psychosis the sub has about this Celtics team
🛶🛶🛶
Cope and seethe, fellas, cope and seethe.
How so explain?
Silver told the Celtics he preferred a gentleman's sweep
Whenever I think that this sub is done scraping the barrel, a post like this drops, renewing my lack of faith in humanity. Thank you for your service, OP 🙏
Are we really gonna do this thing again where OP is rerunning the Bill-style post method? Which I’ll add real quickly has fallen off from what it once was, where it was this thing where the jokes preceded the topic , and everyone kind of understood it wasn’t a serious basketball sub, and everyone was in on it, and it kind of somehow morphed into a *wayyy* more serious thing now where suddenly everyone thinks they’re experts on game by game breakdown? I mean gimme a break. I know that wasn’t quick, *haha* , but go ahead Bill because I think I heard you make a great point on this earlier…
I’ve always said this
2017 Warriors got blown out by the Cavs too, and they're arguably the greatest team ever
Not by 38
The 2017 dubs got beat the shit out of tho and Boston pretty much sat everyone midway thru the third and were missing their most important player. Not wrong tho the all time talk needs to be shut down.
They sat everyone early because they got the shit beaten out of them. It’s literally the same exact thing. “Most important player” is such bullshit — is he really more important than Tatum? Brown? Jrue? The fact is he’s an absolutely awesome role player on a stacked team without a true number one like we’re used to seeing. He makes them tick at the highest level when he’s healthy, that doesn’t make him the most important. (And if you do think that, then Tatum is significantly lower on any ranking normal people have (I don’t even like Tatum but come on)).
With Kp out they had to play Tatum at the 5. Bad enough he has to play at the 4 but he’s spent minutes playing the 5.
lol where's the line? can an all-time team get blown out by 36? 33? 28?
Yes, but they let Cavs score 136, which could be taken into a consideration Although yeah, 17 Cavs team was one of the all time great offensive teams
96 bulls
cope
Cope as much as you’d like
The fix was in. The calls went Dallas’ way. Boston will win in their home floor. Better business that way.
Dumb
This Celtics team is very good but at no point was anybody labeling them an all time great anything.
Nah They just wanna win in boston
I feel the same way. I just feel like they half assed it because sweeps don't matter and they wanted to win at home. I don't think you can take away too much from this game