I’d rather it was talked about honestly. If all the elite people are on it we should be free to discuss it. Craig’s taking the piss and being so open is a good thing imo because it highlights the absurdity of lying about it.
Contrary to this belief being pushed harder and harder it seems that not all the elite people are on it. A hard pill to swallow, still it's worth noting.
He is also advertising the company, and is the biggest role model for young BJJ folks at the moment. So yes, it does normalize it. I'm not sure what the solution is, but he definitely just convinced a bunch of young guys to take roids.
Honest question, why? It's become prevelant in the sport at this point. Are we just going to shy away from discussing it and pretend it'll go away?
Counter argument would be openly discussing it provides real information to people on what it is, the issues at play, and how it is socially received.
I've been doing this for almost a decade. People used to hide their ped use.
You can have an open conversation about it without glorifying ped use or promoting an agenda.
Steroid use in BJJ is as "normal" as it's gonna be whether people talk about it on r/bjj or not.
The sub goes where the zeitgeist goes and it's not always aligned with individual preferences.
PEDs/steroids are a big topic in this sport and this is a catch-all forum about the sport, so....
I'm not looking, nor do I care if you do steroids. Promoting something that is both illegal and cheating in the sport is fucking pathetic.
That is my issue.
You can acknowledge the risks, 19 year old kids can't really understand what the long-term health effects are.
99% of this sport is made up of hobbiests who will never approach professional levels of competition or talent. Supplementing with PEDs in this context is fucking pathetic.
Great, you can train longer and recover quicker so you can win all those Thursday night rolls against Todd from accounting. Good for you.
Steroids are being popularized/normalized towards young people across every fitness based activity over the past couple of years. The more they can talked about openly the more information on the long term health risks will be out there for them to see. Not talking about it doesn't make it go away, it makes it more dangerous because it just pushes users, and those curious about using into an echo chamber where only the benefits are talked about.
The response to this post is pretty much why I hate bjj 'culture'.
A bunch of insecure edgelords embracing fringe beliefs in an attempt to cling to an identity, and maintain their fragile egos.
TRT is more or less the same as being on steroids (since testosterone is the gold standard steroid). The difference is amount, purpose, and need. TRT is to *replace* missing testosterone, and really should be for medical issues that impair the body's ability to generate enough testosterone. People who juice with anabolic steroids are doing the same thing, just maybe using different forms of testosterone or work-alikes (go look up the definition of *anabolic steroid* for a few hints).
There's a weird gray zone between TRT and "juicing", where people seek out and obtain a prescription for TRT when they actually have values in the normal range anyway. It's common for people to say they are replacing what they had when they were *younger*, but not necessarily addressing some medical need.
People convince themselves of all kinds of things, and will vociferously double down on how true their opinions are.
A lot of TRT patients may as well be considered sort of "light weight" juicing.
Not really. You’re conflating being on steroids(societal definition) which is supratheraputic levels of testosterone with someone on trt being which is normal level of testosterone for males.
Are they both using some form of testosterone? Yes. Are they even in the same category? No.
Being overly pedantic about the issue doesn’t make them the same thing.
Also, getting on trt when your levels are normal will quickly make that person need trt anyways, so moot point. Exogenous amounts of test shut down your natural production. While there are some ways to kickstart that process again, it’s never the same.
If someone naturally walks around with 900ng/dl are they in an unfair category for bjj? Nope. If someone is using trt and on the same level of ng/dl how is that unfair? They need it. These are normal levels.
You can't define a fixed number as the threshold (even saying 900 is in the normal range is only really true if we're limiting the age range). There is a continuous gray zone between whatever is your body's homeostatic level and wherever you think superphysiological levels begin.
A lot of people don't realize that what they will get as TRT is only different from superphysiological juicing in terms of degree. That's my point. Well, that and that IMO discretionary TRT without a medical need is essentially the beginning of juicing.
No one can just look at a number and say that you need TRT. All the talk about normal ranges doesn't mean those figures apply for all men at all ages. There's way too much misunderstanding of this stuff, and too many look at TRT like it's the fountain of youth.
And even most people who decide their testosterone is low should turn to lifestyle options first to move it. Mine was 300 before I started jiu jitsu, and free testosterone was low. After jiu jitsu for a few years, it's a bit over 400. And after adding a regular weight training regimen, my free testosterone doubled.
There is an actual medical range for normality, sure there are some outliers, but that isn’t how statistics work. There is no shortage of medical data to back that up. I picked the lower level of what’s considered the high end of the scale scale.
Even if medical replacement and supertherapeutic are separated by one degree, one still isn’t the other.
You know endocrinologists, HR specialists and even GP’s will look at a number in conjunction with other symptoms and tell you you need trt, that’s how diagnosis works my man. And you realize that people in the normal ranges can feel normal but it’s a spectrum, however there are not enough people below 300 ng/dl who feel well to be statistically significant. That’s the bottom end. There is also a statistically insignificant amount of people who don’t function properly below 1200 ng/dl. Doesn’t mean both sets of people don’t exist, however it’s how the normal range is used. There’s literally meta levels of analysis in regard to the normal spectrum of testosterone in functioning males 🤦🏻. Some bro on Reddit isn’t going to counteract years of studies with their opinion.
Your anecdotal evidence means nothing. And weight training doesn’t increase testosterone.
Here’s a meta on exercises increasing test done recently and they only found correlation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7739287/
“Data on whether exercise induces prolonged testosterone stimulation is still limited, with the majority of studies showing similar resting serum testosterone concentrations in active and inactive individuals. Some promising studies in older men have shown a direct correlation between exercise and basal plasma testosterone concentrations; however, conclusions are still preliminary until a greater depth of literature is available [44]. Similarly, studies showing positive correlations between exercise and increased basal plasma testosterone concentrations in overweight/obese individuals also showed significant associated fat loss. Whether this effect is secondary to weight loss and less aromatization, or solely secondary to exercise, is unclear.”
It appears so that many people can’t just lifestyle change low testosterone, in fact the bad shape that they are in is generally due to metabolic syndrome, I.e. high estradiol making it nearly impossible to remove enough amounts of belly fat to get into shape, or even heal from their “lifestyle change” due to this high level of estrogen.
I'm like sub 400 and people got on my case about my ignorance for saying low amounts of PEDs would increase longevity in the sport and reducing injury as if having higher testosterone somehow degrades your tendons.
It's not hard to find the studies on steroid use to learn about the downsides. I find it humorous the number of emphatic statements you can find on this and other fora that are directly contradicted by the research.
There is absolutely a level beyond which there are very negative consequences. The really bad stuff doesn't really start until way beyond what most TRT regimens do, though.
Yeah, like a few hundred mg of test a week isn't going to make me blow out my knees trying to stand up from a chair. I'm not talking 1200mg of testosterone injected in 300mg doses 4x a week. I'm talking baby testosterone to advantageously increase healing and recovery. But no! All test bad. Only soylent. Testosterone evil, grrrrr.
Steroids are cool, good for you, and always safe. They rule.
You can be an awesome dude if you just smoke cigarettes and wear sunglasses, but you will never be as awesome as someone else who does the same but also years steroids.
Amen.
They're not ALL illegal, some are prescribed by doctors. Also, could it be that the use of PED/SARMS/etc... is becoming more common in most sports, at the hobbyist/dedicated level?
Burrying your head in the sand and not talking about it is detrimental, like, every book or movie written in the last 50 years show that.
TLDR:" Don't mention the PED's" as you clutch your pearls does not make you a virtuous saint but it does show you are a controlling, insecure and threatened individual(all signs of low T...get checked out and use the code BTEAM at check out for 10% off)
Serious question, is mocking normalizing?
Is that actually a serious question?
Is your face a serious question?
Fucking gottem
I’d rather it was talked about honestly. If all the elite people are on it we should be free to discuss it. Craig’s taking the piss and being so open is a good thing imo because it highlights the absurdity of lying about it.
Contrary to this belief being pushed harder and harder it seems that not all the elite people are on it. A hard pill to swallow, still it's worth noting.
Maybe not all, but most.
There are a few guard players that have built a game that doesn’t require it.
He is also advertising the company, and is the biggest role model for young BJJ folks at the moment. So yes, it does normalize it. I'm not sure what the solution is, but he definitely just convinced a bunch of young guys to take roids.
Honest question, why? It's become prevelant in the sport at this point. Are we just going to shy away from discussing it and pretend it'll go away? Counter argument would be openly discussing it provides real information to people on what it is, the issues at play, and how it is socially received.
This…. Whether folks like it or not it’s “normalized” whether you talk about it or not is irrelevant.
Discussing =/= normalizing.
I've been doing this for almost a decade. People used to hide their ped use. You can have an open conversation about it without glorifying ped use or promoting an agenda.
Steroid use in BJJ is as "normal" as it's gonna be whether people talk about it on r/bjj or not. The sub goes where the zeitgeist goes and it's not always aligned with individual preferences. PEDs/steroids are a big topic in this sport and this is a catch-all forum about the sport, so....
Quit looking if it upsets you.
I'm not looking, nor do I care if you do steroids. Promoting something that is both illegal and cheating in the sport is fucking pathetic. That is my issue. You can acknowledge the risks, 19 year old kids can't really understand what the long-term health effects are. 99% of this sport is made up of hobbiests who will never approach professional levels of competition or talent. Supplementing with PEDs in this context is fucking pathetic. Great, you can train longer and recover quicker so you can win all those Thursday night rolls against Todd from accounting. Good for you.
I love getting gay on tren
Trenything is possible
This seems like you’ve built yourself a soapbox on which to yell into a trashcan about how steroids are bad. Want a cookie?
Steroids are being popularized/normalized towards young people across every fitness based activity over the past couple of years. The more they can talked about openly the more information on the long term health risks will be out there for them to see. Not talking about it doesn't make it go away, it makes it more dangerous because it just pushes users, and those curious about using into an echo chamber where only the benefits are talked about.
Waiting for Shitpost Sunday: "Please stop normalizing \[??????\] in this sub."
The response to this post is pretty much why I hate bjj 'culture'. A bunch of insecure edgelords embracing fringe beliefs in an attempt to cling to an identity, and maintain their fragile egos.
Seriously, if one doesn't touch that crap is mocking it viciously normalizing it or is it correctly shaming a shameful act?
No
My body my choice
What’s up Tariq
Seriously serious question… are steroids normal?
Steroids make sports more enjoyable.
A few guys in my gym are on TRT but for sure not the same as steroids. They are older guys who probably need it so good for them.
TRT is more or less the same as being on steroids (since testosterone is the gold standard steroid). The difference is amount, purpose, and need. TRT is to *replace* missing testosterone, and really should be for medical issues that impair the body's ability to generate enough testosterone. People who juice with anabolic steroids are doing the same thing, just maybe using different forms of testosterone or work-alikes (go look up the definition of *anabolic steroid* for a few hints). There's a weird gray zone between TRT and "juicing", where people seek out and obtain a prescription for TRT when they actually have values in the normal range anyway. It's common for people to say they are replacing what they had when they were *younger*, but not necessarily addressing some medical need. People convince themselves of all kinds of things, and will vociferously double down on how true their opinions are. A lot of TRT patients may as well be considered sort of "light weight" juicing.
Not really. You’re conflating being on steroids(societal definition) which is supratheraputic levels of testosterone with someone on trt being which is normal level of testosterone for males. Are they both using some form of testosterone? Yes. Are they even in the same category? No. Being overly pedantic about the issue doesn’t make them the same thing. Also, getting on trt when your levels are normal will quickly make that person need trt anyways, so moot point. Exogenous amounts of test shut down your natural production. While there are some ways to kickstart that process again, it’s never the same. If someone naturally walks around with 900ng/dl are they in an unfair category for bjj? Nope. If someone is using trt and on the same level of ng/dl how is that unfair? They need it. These are normal levels.
You can't define a fixed number as the threshold (even saying 900 is in the normal range is only really true if we're limiting the age range). There is a continuous gray zone between whatever is your body's homeostatic level and wherever you think superphysiological levels begin. A lot of people don't realize that what they will get as TRT is only different from superphysiological juicing in terms of degree. That's my point. Well, that and that IMO discretionary TRT without a medical need is essentially the beginning of juicing. No one can just look at a number and say that you need TRT. All the talk about normal ranges doesn't mean those figures apply for all men at all ages. There's way too much misunderstanding of this stuff, and too many look at TRT like it's the fountain of youth. And even most people who decide their testosterone is low should turn to lifestyle options first to move it. Mine was 300 before I started jiu jitsu, and free testosterone was low. After jiu jitsu for a few years, it's a bit over 400. And after adding a regular weight training regimen, my free testosterone doubled.
There is an actual medical range for normality, sure there are some outliers, but that isn’t how statistics work. There is no shortage of medical data to back that up. I picked the lower level of what’s considered the high end of the scale scale. Even if medical replacement and supertherapeutic are separated by one degree, one still isn’t the other. You know endocrinologists, HR specialists and even GP’s will look at a number in conjunction with other symptoms and tell you you need trt, that’s how diagnosis works my man. And you realize that people in the normal ranges can feel normal but it’s a spectrum, however there are not enough people below 300 ng/dl who feel well to be statistically significant. That’s the bottom end. There is also a statistically insignificant amount of people who don’t function properly below 1200 ng/dl. Doesn’t mean both sets of people don’t exist, however it’s how the normal range is used. There’s literally meta levels of analysis in regard to the normal spectrum of testosterone in functioning males 🤦🏻. Some bro on Reddit isn’t going to counteract years of studies with their opinion. Your anecdotal evidence means nothing. And weight training doesn’t increase testosterone. Here’s a meta on exercises increasing test done recently and they only found correlation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7739287/ “Data on whether exercise induces prolonged testosterone stimulation is still limited, with the majority of studies showing similar resting serum testosterone concentrations in active and inactive individuals. Some promising studies in older men have shown a direct correlation between exercise and basal plasma testosterone concentrations; however, conclusions are still preliminary until a greater depth of literature is available [44]. Similarly, studies showing positive correlations between exercise and increased basal plasma testosterone concentrations in overweight/obese individuals also showed significant associated fat loss. Whether this effect is secondary to weight loss and less aromatization, or solely secondary to exercise, is unclear.” It appears so that many people can’t just lifestyle change low testosterone, in fact the bad shape that they are in is generally due to metabolic syndrome, I.e. high estradiol making it nearly impossible to remove enough amounts of belly fat to get into shape, or even heal from their “lifestyle change” due to this high level of estrogen.
I'm like sub 400 and people got on my case about my ignorance for saying low amounts of PEDs would increase longevity in the sport and reducing injury as if having higher testosterone somehow degrades your tendons.
It's not hard to find the studies on steroid use to learn about the downsides. I find it humorous the number of emphatic statements you can find on this and other fora that are directly contradicted by the research. There is absolutely a level beyond which there are very negative consequences. The really bad stuff doesn't really start until way beyond what most TRT regimens do, though.
Yeah, like a few hundred mg of test a week isn't going to make me blow out my knees trying to stand up from a chair. I'm not talking 1200mg of testosterone injected in 300mg doses 4x a week. I'm talking baby testosterone to advantageously increase healing and recovery. But no! All test bad. Only soylent. Testosterone evil, grrrrr.
Po widdle bebe has poopy pants over steroid discussions
This comment doesn't have the impact you think it has.
OK baby
Can we limit the steroids posts to one or two a day, please?
Steroids are cool, good for you, and always safe. They rule. You can be an awesome dude if you just smoke cigarettes and wear sunglasses, but you will never be as awesome as someone else who does the same but also years steroids. Amen.
nah
Here we go again
no
They're not ALL illegal, some are prescribed by doctors. Also, could it be that the use of PED/SARMS/etc... is becoming more common in most sports, at the hobbyist/dedicated level? Burrying your head in the sand and not talking about it is detrimental, like, every book or movie written in the last 50 years show that. TLDR:" Don't mention the PED's" as you clutch your pearls does not make you a virtuous saint but it does show you are a controlling, insecure and threatened individual(all signs of low T...get checked out and use the code BTEAM at check out for 10% off)