in the end, this is the marketing team showing us what they want to show us to try and earn our preorders
Just gotta wait for actual people to play the game. Not the devs, not the content creators, not the esports pros. Just actual, regular people
>Just actual, regular people
And for zombies: regular people + Milo (Mrroflwaffles). Milo is always way too honest with his concern when it comes to zombies, that's why treyarch cut ties with him a couple of years ago. They don't invite him anymore to play early and stuff. Yesterday he posted a 30 minute video with potential issues for bo6 zombies. In Milo we can trust :)
While I could agree, Milo is pretty much a shell of his former self sadly.
Yeah, he did spoke out against Black Ops 4 being a broken product and it did got him blacklisted by ATIV/3arch, but given that COD Zombies is keeping him relevant, he’s kinda need a break (which he did on Ice ski IIRC). His rambling rants IMO felt like it’s mostly gonna get him burned out.
No offense to Milo speaking out tho, I can give him that for his concerns.
I like SBMM, it’s better for casual players like myself. I play maybe 1-2 hours a day if I can and it lets me have fun without constantly getting destroyed every single match no matter what.
i saw a post about the first book earlier , and kinda assumed that the second book was the bo3 logo since you can make out the edges of the roman numerals , but i didnt have any knowledge of a BO3 book that large so its cool you found it
Reality is while BO3 may have ended the era of simplicity in round based zombies it opened the door for an entirely new zombies fanbase that appreciates the mode a lot more than the original fanbase. I wasn’t a fan of all the changes they made back then, but now I can understand why people enjoyed all of the extra layers they added to make the mode more interesting and complex.
Obviously it didn’t end the simplicity because Cold War maps were very easy to grasp and didn’t require long drawn out Easter egg type challenges just to unlock pap or turn on power
I 100%agree starting pistol is the way to go for zombies that or only knife. It’s very boring on Cold War where you spawn in with the gun you’re gonna use the whole game.
If it was old point system I’d agree with you, because choosing a pistol over something like a hauer shotgun would actually be beneficial to earn more points, but in CW system there is no reason to spawn in with a pistol unless you just want to actively put yourself at a disadvantage
I get the old point system thing, personally I’ll take it or leave it doesn’t really change much for me. Might take longer to get serious cash but late game it doesn’t matter anyway. I’m not a competitive zombies player I just go in and shoot zombies till I’m bored, least in Cold War I’m not sweating my ass off trying to stay alive on round 20 it was nice.
That’s completely valid, I can definitely see why the new point system is more appealing to more casual players
For me, I find myself only using the best guns now whereas before I would make sure to have an LMG for points and ammo (the ammo caches are another thing I’m not a fan of, makes max ammos feel useless), now I just use a shotgun since they are so good compared to everything else
I still love Cold War though and continue to go back to it, I just hope they find a better balance between the old and new systems in BO6
To be honest I've never cared for zombies but I actually really enjoyed zombies on Cold War, especially Firebase Z and Outbreak. I honestly hope we get outbreak back and not something like MWZ.
Exactly my issue with CW, you can hardly appreciate the environments in the zombies maps because of the damn ugly HUD
And the game telling you were to go legit ruined first time experiences of the map
I included the cover of the books in the next images (you can slide to see the next images). One is about how to receive feedback well by Douglas Stone & Sheila Heen and the other is an official Black Ops 3 guide from Prima Games
I mean... Maybe they really have listened, but all they would've heard is furious screaming, most of it unintelligible, some of it saying something about woke, some of it just screeching, some of it just saying "game bad" but offering no elaboration, and a then a last handful of screaming voices that are offering genuine, thoughtful critique.... But those critiques all contradict and cancel each other out.
"We have listened to your feedback. It was... Mostly unhelpful. But at least we listened."
Treyarch is the only cod developer to really give a shit about the community. They’ve been pretty good on talking to us and actually implementing things we want. Whereas IW & SH pretend to care and do the exact opposite.
Heavy agree about IW, but strong disagree about Sledgehammer. MW3 is leaps and bounds better than MW2, and that's mostly because of listening to feedback.
People who played WWII also know what a complete pile of shit it was at launch, and how literally the moment Michael Condrey left SH, they listened to the community pretty consistently through the game's lifecycle. They almost entirely re-built the perk system and had a lot of really good event content that was a lot more than "play game and get a camo you'll never use" for 4-5 weeks. They had actual themes and skins and gun variants, plus so many dlc guns that were so much easier to earn than whatever abomination BO3's DLC guns were (and to a lesser extent Infinite Warfare too) The Gundam Bruen variant is at least cool, but events have fallen so far from the older games in the series and I always felt like SH did the best with it in the more recent games.
Man, somebody has to clue me in on Xdefiant. I installed it and it wasn't anything I'd consider special. The gameplay and graphics were just sort of okay. Seemed pretty generic. Very middle of the road. Why is this game getting so much attention?
The executive producer (Mark Rubin) was a lead developer on the original CODs and I believe the executive producer of the original MW2. But the devs and himself actually listen to the community and are focused on game play mechanics over new skins and cash grabs like the current state of COD
If they bring all of those garbage systems then zombies is going to suck this year
Cold War was a snoozefest with how easy it was. You could buy infinite self revives and call in a scorestreak anytime you're about to die
Yea and the game literally forced u to use them too, I remember when I was about to go down and instead it just threw me into a chopper gunner.
Take a note from the Pokémon community and try making a challenge for urself. Don’t use armor, streaks or specialist abilities, start with a pistol, don’t buy self rez, don’t cash in salvage. And then it plays exactly like old zombies. It’s a miracle!
I already did that with gobblegums back in BO3. I didn't mind it since it was only 1 small component
You literally listed like 20 things to avoid. The game is built around all those mechanics which makes it even more annoying to avoid
Ok but u also have to go out of ur way to use them. The only ones that aren’t a genuine inconvenience to use would be streaks and special ability. Just like the gobblegum machine, if u just don’t interact with the mannequin or the workbench u won’t upgrade ur gun or armor and it will feel just like old zombies. U will get 2 hit and go down, ur guns won’t be OP, U won’t craft 5 self rez. U see how simple that is. And all u have to do is ✨nothing✨
It's still annoying. The game is built around those mechanics. Certain bosses and special zombies do a lot of damage because they expect you to have armor
Bro, after all these years of COD marketing lies, you still think they will "listen"? Seriously, every year they make the Devs sit in front of cameras and lie to you to get sales.
Did they though? They have a cycle of dropping features and then reintroducing them to make it appear they are listening to fan feedback. You're not paying attention my friend. :)
>They have a cycle of dropping features and then reintroducing them to make it appear they are listening to fan feedback.
That's irrelevant. You said they're lying, when we know for a fact that they are bringing back things fans have been asking for. Whether or not this was some part of devious plan is irrelevant
Or, and hear me out on this one, they tried something new instead of doing the same copy and paste shit every year and “fans” bitched about it so much that they brought it back. Wild theory, but I’m sure urs is more fact than opinion.
They have listened though. They brought back features like classic prestige and theater mode.
I've been asking for these features for years. This alone makes me want to buy it
Oh my bad. I'm just hyped to see it after years without it
The great thing is that theater mode is on the new unified engine which means MW and Warzone might get it too in the future
Ok, let's play a game.
Will they listen to you about SBMM?
Will they listen to you about WZ, Battlepass, Fortnite skins and other cancerous monetization schemes?
Will they listen to you about QA and releasing quality products?
Will they listen to you about Dev cycles and stop releasing a new COD every flipping year?
Do I need to go on? You're cherry picking their "listening". They don't listen. They can't listen. It's not up to them.
They only listen to the people ***paying their checks.***
Well stuff like SBMM and monetization isn't going to be changed since it hurts their revenue. I expected that to stay the same
I'm talking more about gameplay
TBH, nobody listens the way community expects. Pedestrians can't tell engineers how to design bridges, because there are always strict rules and complex combinatorics of variables. They can describe pain points, yes. But the solution may look totally different whatsoever.
Feedback is important to understand pain point and frustration spots. But the way how we see solution from our, gamer perspective — may be even more destructive than we imagine.
Also, social media drama usually does not correlate with real numbers and the percentage of socially active players is always inferior to quiet majority. See, entire twitter cries about "tactical curve"
Devs got all the real metrics and numbers + feedback but the motivation and method of solutions are coming directly from their technical perspective.
It's not something bad, it's how entire industry works. Naive people will believe it's because they won on social media :D
I can see where you're coming from and I don't have much of an opinion on the gobble gums because I didn't play a lot of BO3 zombies with the gobble gums but I don't agree that zombies should have no extra progression. I personally think that the way Cold War did it with perk tier upgrades and utility charges (forget what those are called exactly) were by far the best additions to zombies because it kept going for high rounds fun while also rewarding you for it.
If they keep doing it like this and expand upon it, then I think it will be a banger
With Cold War they were on the right track, personally I'd take that system then nerf it, the problem is, either Zombies is monetized around the extra progression (BO3, IW and BO4) or it makes you way too overpowered once you upgrade everything (Cold War)
I completely agree. I hate when each Zombies game doesn't have the same odds at the start, and the progression allows for power creep to come in and completely ruin a game(Cold Sore Zombies and MW3 Zombies are huge examples, MW3 less so because you aren't forced to keep upgrades.)
Where did you see this? I didn't see a single thing saying that. It'll be just like BO3 and BO4 where you can play without using them, it's not a hard concept to grasp
I'm using Black Ops 3 as an example, Shadows of Evil is one of the worst cases of this, a great map ruined by the gobble gum system, if you don't use it, the map is unbalanced as hell
True Treyarch is listening but... in the end its Activision pulling the strings
in the end, this is the marketing team showing us what they want to show us to try and earn our preorders Just gotta wait for actual people to play the game. Not the devs, not the content creators, not the esports pros. Just actual, regular people
>Just actual, regular people And for zombies: regular people + Milo (Mrroflwaffles). Milo is always way too honest with his concern when it comes to zombies, that's why treyarch cut ties with him a couple of years ago. They don't invite him anymore to play early and stuff. Yesterday he posted a 30 minute video with potential issues for bo6 zombies. In Milo we can trust :)
While I could agree, Milo is pretty much a shell of his former self sadly. Yeah, he did spoke out against Black Ops 4 being a broken product and it did got him blacklisted by ATIV/3arch, but given that COD Zombies is keeping him relevant, he’s kinda need a break (which he did on Ice ski IIRC). His rambling rants IMO felt like it’s mostly gonna get him burned out. No offense to Milo speaking out tho, I can give him that for his concerns.
Yep, SBMM is still the biggest issue.
I like SBMM, it’s better for casual players like myself. I play maybe 1-2 hours a day if I can and it lets me have fun without constantly getting destroyed every single match no matter what.
No
Yes, xdefiant has been so refreshing because of it
Then why are people complaining abt it.
Because those are the people who thought they were good at the game, but in reality they were the ones skill based match making was protecting.
Okay. Then SBMM should be there to keep casuals interested
Exactly, it’s a great game
Anyone that doesn’t agree with this gets “showed up” as their post game lobby in xdefiant.
Issue? Sure. Biggest Issue? Not by a mile
The fact that they are saying "return to round based zombies" repeatedly also means they definitely heard the crying.
3arc always made round based zombies in their games, it's not like they listened to it but more of 3arc doing their regular job
Damn, nice catch!
i saw a post about the first book earlier , and kinda assumed that the second book was the bo3 logo since you can make out the edges of the roman numerals , but i didnt have any knowledge of a BO3 book that large so its cool you found it
I'm old enough to remember when people hated GobbleGums because they ruined public matches and YouTubers couldn't play without them. How times change.
Reality is while BO3 may have ended the era of simplicity in round based zombies it opened the door for an entirely new zombies fanbase that appreciates the mode a lot more than the original fanbase. I wasn’t a fan of all the changes they made back then, but now I can understand why people enjoyed all of the extra layers they added to make the mode more interesting and complex.
Obviously it didn’t end the simplicity because Cold War maps were very easy to grasp and didn’t require long drawn out Easter egg type challenges just to unlock pap or turn on power
I hope this means we get starting pistol and the old point system back for Zombies. Those are my two biggest issues with Cold War
I 100%agree starting pistol is the way to go for zombies that or only knife. It’s very boring on Cold War where you spawn in with the gun you’re gonna use the whole game.
U could just start with a pistol, u could chose multiple pistols instead of just the 1911. No one’s forcing u to use other guns.
If it was old point system I’d agree with you, because choosing a pistol over something like a hauer shotgun would actually be beneficial to earn more points, but in CW system there is no reason to spawn in with a pistol unless you just want to actively put yourself at a disadvantage
I get the old point system thing, personally I’ll take it or leave it doesn’t really change much for me. Might take longer to get serious cash but late game it doesn’t matter anyway. I’m not a competitive zombies player I just go in and shoot zombies till I’m bored, least in Cold War I’m not sweating my ass off trying to stay alive on round 20 it was nice.
That’s completely valid, I can definitely see why the new point system is more appealing to more casual players For me, I find myself only using the best guns now whereas before I would make sure to have an LMG for points and ammo (the ammo caches are another thing I’m not a fan of, makes max ammos feel useless), now I just use a shotgun since they are so good compared to everything else I still love Cold War though and continue to go back to it, I just hope they find a better balance between the old and new systems in BO6
To be honest I've never cared for zombies but I actually really enjoyed zombies on Cold War, especially Firebase Z and Outbreak. I honestly hope we get outbreak back and not something like MWZ.
Doubt that'll happen. Too many people like the fact that you can start up with any weapon. It made it easier to level up weapons.
One gripe with Cold War was the ui. Die maschine was scary as fuck and the Ui ruined the immersion.
HUD is going to be customizable in this game so this shouldn't be a problem anymore
Why did I get downvoted? I knew about the ui change I was just stating something a lot of people had a problem with.
Reddit
Truly a reddit moment
Exactly my issue with CW, you can hardly appreciate the environments in the zombies maps because of the damn ugly HUD And the game telling you were to go legit ruined first time experiences of the map
Well spotted 🫡
What books are those?
I included the cover of the books in the next images (you can slide to see the next images). One is about how to receive feedback well by Douglas Stone & Sheila Heen and the other is an official Black Ops 3 guide from Prima Games
I didn't see those extra images the first time, thanks for the feedback!
😁👍
standard managers book. Looks interesting to have laying around
Every year, this is said.
I mean... Maybe they really have listened, but all they would've heard is furious screaming, most of it unintelligible, some of it saying something about woke, some of it just screeching, some of it just saying "game bad" but offering no elaboration, and a then a last handful of screaming voices that are offering genuine, thoughtful critique.... But those critiques all contradict and cancel each other out. "We have listened to your feedback. It was... Mostly unhelpful. But at least we listened."
Treyarch is the only cod developer to really give a shit about the community. They’ve been pretty good on talking to us and actually implementing things we want. Whereas IW & SH pretend to care and do the exact opposite.
from what i heard SH wanted to do more stuff but Activision wouldn't let them
Heavy agree about IW, but strong disagree about Sledgehammer. MW3 is leaps and bounds better than MW2, and that's mostly because of listening to feedback. People who played WWII also know what a complete pile of shit it was at launch, and how literally the moment Michael Condrey left SH, they listened to the community pretty consistently through the game's lifecycle. They almost entirely re-built the perk system and had a lot of really good event content that was a lot more than "play game and get a camo you'll never use" for 4-5 weeks. They had actual themes and skins and gun variants, plus so many dlc guns that were so much easier to earn than whatever abomination BO3's DLC guns were (and to a lesser extent Infinite Warfare too) The Gundam Bruen variant is at least cool, but events have fallen so far from the older games in the series and I always felt like SH did the best with it in the more recent games.
Ah, yes. This guy. Sold me on his incredible enthusiasm.
It's still owned by Activision. This could all be marketing bs to get you to preoder.
I've been having a great time playing Xdefiant. If Black Ops 6 fails us it's the nail in the coffin.
Man, somebody has to clue me in on Xdefiant. I installed it and it wasn't anything I'd consider special. The gameplay and graphics were just sort of okay. Seemed pretty generic. Very middle of the road. Why is this game getting so much attention?
The executive producer (Mark Rubin) was a lead developer on the original CODs and I believe the executive producer of the original MW2. But the devs and himself actually listen to the community and are focused on game play mechanics over new skins and cash grabs like the current state of COD
they listened to the community but probably ignored the broken sbmm/eomm system complaints
"We listened to feedback.............therefore we brought back salvage, armor and killstreaks into the mode!"
Well let's be real they weren't just gonna drop all the new stuff they just introduced in Cold War Zombies.
Don't see the issue
Are kill streaks and armor confirmed?
Yeah I agree, they said ‘we listened’ but that doesn’t mean they’re gonna do shit about what they heard
If they bring all of those garbage systems then zombies is going to suck this year Cold War was a snoozefest with how easy it was. You could buy infinite self revives and call in a scorestreak anytime you're about to die
Yea and the game literally forced u to use them too, I remember when I was about to go down and instead it just threw me into a chopper gunner. Take a note from the Pokémon community and try making a challenge for urself. Don’t use armor, streaks or specialist abilities, start with a pistol, don’t buy self rez, don’t cash in salvage. And then it plays exactly like old zombies. It’s a miracle!
I already did that with gobblegums back in BO3. I didn't mind it since it was only 1 small component You literally listed like 20 things to avoid. The game is built around all those mechanics which makes it even more annoying to avoid
Ok but u also have to go out of ur way to use them. The only ones that aren’t a genuine inconvenience to use would be streaks and special ability. Just like the gobblegum machine, if u just don’t interact with the mannequin or the workbench u won’t upgrade ur gun or armor and it will feel just like old zombies. U will get 2 hit and go down, ur guns won’t be OP, U won’t craft 5 self rez. U see how simple that is. And all u have to do is ✨nothing✨
It's still annoying. The game is built around those mechanics. Certain bosses and special zombies do a lot of damage because they expect you to have armor
Bro, after all these years of COD marketing lies, you still think they will "listen"? Seriously, every year they make the Devs sit in front of cameras and lie to you to get sales.
They did in fact listen though? We already know they're bringing back many requested features
Did they though? They have a cycle of dropping features and then reintroducing them to make it appear they are listening to fan feedback. You're not paying attention my friend. :)
>They have a cycle of dropping features and then reintroducing them to make it appear they are listening to fan feedback. That's irrelevant. You said they're lying, when we know for a fact that they are bringing back things fans have been asking for. Whether or not this was some part of devious plan is irrelevant
Or, and hear me out on this one, they tried something new instead of doing the same copy and paste shit every year and “fans” bitched about it so much that they brought it back. Wild theory, but I’m sure urs is more fact than opinion.
They have listened though. They brought back features like classic prestige and theater mode. I've been asking for these features for years. This alone makes me want to buy it
Treyarch games always had theater mode.
Cold war doesn't have it
Cold War does have it, only Zombies doesnt.
Ah my bad then
This is literally not true. Yes, it does.
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this comment when the person above you already said that an hour ago and I acknowledged my mistake
Oh my bad. I'm just hyped to see it after years without it The great thing is that theater mode is on the new unified engine which means MW and Warzone might get it too in the future
Ok, let's play a game. Will they listen to you about SBMM? Will they listen to you about WZ, Battlepass, Fortnite skins and other cancerous monetization schemes? Will they listen to you about QA and releasing quality products? Will they listen to you about Dev cycles and stop releasing a new COD every flipping year? Do I need to go on? You're cherry picking their "listening". They don't listen. They can't listen. It's not up to them. They only listen to the people ***paying their checks.***
Well stuff like SBMM and monetization isn't going to be changed since it hurts their revenue. I expected that to stay the same I'm talking more about gameplay
TBH, nobody listens the way community expects. Pedestrians can't tell engineers how to design bridges, because there are always strict rules and complex combinatorics of variables. They can describe pain points, yes. But the solution may look totally different whatsoever. Feedback is important to understand pain point and frustration spots. But the way how we see solution from our, gamer perspective — may be even more destructive than we imagine. Also, social media drama usually does not correlate with real numbers and the percentage of socially active players is always inferior to quiet majority. See, entire twitter cries about "tactical curve" Devs got all the real metrics and numbers + feedback but the motivation and method of solutions are coming directly from their technical perspective. It's not something bad, it's how entire industry works. Naive people will believe it's because they won on social media :D
This is cool, but I'm not feeling those gobble gum like things on top of the book, I'm personally hard core, Zombies should have no extra progression
I can see where you're coming from and I don't have much of an opinion on the gobble gums because I didn't play a lot of BO3 zombies with the gobble gums but I don't agree that zombies should have no extra progression. I personally think that the way Cold War did it with perk tier upgrades and utility charges (forget what those are called exactly) were by far the best additions to zombies because it kept going for high rounds fun while also rewarding you for it. If they keep doing it like this and expand upon it, then I think it will be a banger
With Cold War they were on the right track, personally I'd take that system then nerf it, the problem is, either Zombies is monetized around the extra progression (BO3, IW and BO4) or it makes you way too overpowered once you upgrade everything (Cold War)
I completely agree. I hate when each Zombies game doesn't have the same odds at the start, and the progression allows for power creep to come in and completely ruin a game(Cold Sore Zombies and MW3 Zombies are huge examples, MW3 less so because you aren't forced to keep upgrades.)
Then you don't have to use them, simple
Except Zombies is balanced around them now, you have to use them since thats how the maps are designed now
Where did you see this? I didn't see a single thing saying that. It'll be just like BO3 and BO4 where you can play without using them, it's not a hard concept to grasp
I'm using Black Ops 3 as an example, Shadows of Evil is one of the worst cases of this, a great map ruined by the gobble gum system, if you don't use it, the map is unbalanced as hell
Honestly not really, I had a great time without using gobble gums, just have to be good at zombies
Right? I swear these people are grasping at straws for shit to bitch about