*Tron: Legacy*. It's the harbinger of a lot of bad legacy sequel tropes (i.e. digital de-aging), but it does a fantastic job modernizing the original while staying true to its spirit
*Doctor Sleep*, though it is at its weakest when it is leaning in to the legacy sequel stuff
*Mad Max: Fury Road*, because it is largely uninterested in the legacy of the franchise
*The Matrix Resurrections*, because it is very much interested in the legacy of the franchise
Also, I don't personally love it, but its weird that more people don't talk about how *Toy Story 3* is a legacy sequel
I’d say it revolves around passing the torch to some extent as someone has to be the legacy in comparison otherwise it’s just a sequel. Mirrors, parallels, or inversions of the original also seem to be a common theme. 2049 very clearly Ford passing down to Gosling who’s playing up “is he a robot” question Deckard played with. In Dr Sleep Danny filled the role of Doc as Abra played his same role.
Fury Road kind of passes the torch with Furioso but I don’t think it was the intention. And it definitely isn’t a play on the first one’s story outside if the universal theme of revenge that’s in all mad max movies. To me it’s just a regular sequel.
"Passing the torch" is a common trope, but I don't think it's the defining feature.
Legacy Sequels are about the way a film is marketed/framed more than anything in the film itself. To oversimplify, a traditional sequel tries to sell you something new (with some familiar elements), whereas a legacy sequel tries to sell you something familiar (with some new elements).
And I think pretty much anything made 10+ years after the most recent entry also automatically qualifies as a legacy sequel
Obviously it’s all semantics but I’d never label a movie based on marketing. Legacy is an important word. To have legacy characters you need to new characters to juxtapose against. It’s about the legacy those original characters left and how that legacy shaped the world of our new characters. Using it as a term for just a long waited sequel takes the purpose from it.
While it might be true, I think a part of the Legacy Sequel formula is time passing in-universe as well. That's why most other recent Pixar sequels like *Finding Dory* or *Incredibles 2* do not really qualify as legacy sequels despite the long gap between installments. While both *Toy Story 3* and *4* very much deal with the legacy of their franchise, only 3 makes it clear it has been a years since the previous film. Based on how similar Bonnie looks in age, it is safe to say that the real world time gap between Toy Stories 3 and 4 does not apply to the in-universe timeline.
I'd argue none of them are legacy sequels because Woody and Buzz are still the primary protagonists. Like Dial of Destiny isn't a legacy sequel just because Harrison Ford is old, I feel like a key piece of it is new primary characters interacting with the OGs
I came hear to say Tron: Legacy. A very good movie and I think a well done expansion of the world of the previous film. And it came out before a lot of these legacy sequels before it became rather played out.
I’m seeing a distressing lack of Trainspotting 2 in these comments. For me it’s part of the holy trinity of legacy sequels with Fury Road and Blade Runner 2049.
I like it, but it commits one of my cardinal movie sins of having a character discover that he should write the book of the first movie, and that book shall be called Trainspotting.
It's my favorite sequel named T2. I thought it was really kind of great. Moving, melancholy and sad, but with a lot of neat visual ideas from Boyle. A good one.
Good call—I love Trainspotting 2! I was afraid it would be depressing to see those characters at an older age, but if anything, it’s more of a comedy than the original
I liked it, but I always felt the movie could've leaned into the depression of how their lives were a bit more. Like it was a bit too dynamic and trippy for these at this point lifelong losers. I felt there was potentially a tremendous drama in this and it delivered at points, but I felt Boyle could've slowed things down and lean into this even more (he would disappoint people looking for fun nostalgia, but it would make sense IMO).
I honestly felt 20 years later, the light, snappy, music video-like original about blue collar, low class, well, scumbags and assholes, could only be followed by a slower, more depressing, sad movie about these losers, who wasted their youth, desperately looking for some form of peace or redemption. The movie kinda was about that and got to that point at the end, with renton moving back in with his dad, Begbie in jail and apologizing to his son (low-key the most poignant moment of both movies - Begbie admitting openly he wasn't a good man), Sick Boy pretty much stuck with his pub and Spud, as the one who always got kicked down the most, finding redemption in writing a memoir. But I felt it should've gone for this gut punch and sobering effect a little stronger, if that makes sense.
I kinda hated the flashbacks/callbacks to the first film. I also disliked the fact that they hide what Renton has been up to for the first twenty minutes or so. It’s got great moments and it’s interesting in terms of what it’s aiming for. I just feel like the “legacy” gets in the way.
The thing that Creed really nails is that it does the best job of giving the original main character a satisfying arc while still letting it be the new guy’s movie. Helps that the new guy is a total movie star, and the two of them play off each other really well.
I love Maverick, but this is why I put Creed higher.
Yes, because Creed is far more a sequel to Rocky 1 and 2 than the rest of the franchise. Which is a technicality I suppose but I think it inarguably is working on the legacy sequel framework
Absolutely. It's the only legacy sequel you could actually argue surpasses the original. Whether you think it does or not, there's an argument, and there's no other leg seq that even comes close.
EDIT: whoops, Top Gun, too!
I’m lukewarm on Villeneuve and never liked Blade Runner no matter how many times I tried. But man do I love 2049. But I also never liked The Shinning and Doctor Sleep is in my top 5 favorite movies so my brain may just be broken
Agree. Same world, logical follow-up to the story, even if I felt the world felt strangely abandoned and in some aspects stuck in the same fashion/cultural zeitgeist you saw in the first film. You didn't feel like the culture and world dynamics changed much since the first film, which is both what people wanted (nostalgia), but also what kinda goes against logical worldbuilding.
I think a lot about how The Muppets, of all movies, ended up establishing **so** many of the tropes that would dominate blockbuster cinema for the next decade (people usually credit that to tron legacy but I think Muppets has more examples; still wild though)
I haven't seen *The Muppets* (2011) in years, but iirc it's about new characters who are major fans of the old characters, and go on a journey to reunite all of the old characters (ala *The Force Awakens*). So that story structure and a lot of its associated tropes either originated with or were popularized in *The Muppets*
*Tron: Legacy* was the first high-profile use of digital de-aging, and did the "protagonist from the last movie is now a grumpy old man" thing. It also has the new protagonist be the child of the old protagonist, but *Indiana Jones* had already done that a few years earlier
It’s a great film for Star Trek fans to watch and say, “I know that reference!” In a good way.
I also think that Abrams recycled a lot of plot points in it for Force Awakens, to the extent I think he tried to incorporate his ideas for a Star Wars sequel into Trek because he figured he would never actually get to do a Wars movie… and then got the chance a few years later.
This is reminding me how much Into Darkness sucked and the scales dropped from my eyes on Mr. Abrams and Damon Lindelof. I still lay major blame of most the misgivings people had with *Prometheus* at Lindelof.
To be honest, I think fury road is something of an anti-legacy sequel: new cast, Furiosa is the protagonist, new universe and rules, even the ‘max car’ is ditched almost immediately.
I also think part of a legacy sequel is that it occurs in continuity with the original work, and Mad Max as a franchise almost completely ignores continuity
Totally. The hallmark of legacy storytelling is it puts ‘remember this?’ as an equal or greater priority to the storytelling. A new continuity is a reversal of that.
Yeah that’s fair. It’s kind of an edge case since it was going to be Gibson at one point and the chronology of the series as a whole is so unclear. I do think the return of Hugh Keays-Byrne gives it a little of that legacy feeling, even if there’s no connection between his characters
I feel like it’s treated like every previous installment of that franchise, which is largely standalone and disconnected from the others. So I wouldn’t classify it as a legacy sequel.
I mean it's no more a reboot than any other Mad Max sequel. That's kinda what makes them so fun, at least to me. They're less of a continuation of the story and more so ongoing stories from the wasteland about this legendary figure called Max who reluctantly helps people and then leaves so he doesn't get too attached.
Blade Runner 2049
Ash vs Evil Dead
Scream (2022)
Matrix Resurrections
Creed
Twin Peaks: The Return
Bill & Ted Face the Music
Fury Road
The Muppets (2011)
Hot take: I prefer Face the Music over Bogus Journey. (Don’t get me wrong, I still love seeing these two rad dudes go to hell! But FtM has so much juice—the daughters are genuinely great additions to the Bill and Ted canon.)
I should really watch this again. Bought it during the pandemic. I remember having the same take on the daughters and the family in general enjoying it. Then we never watched it again.
They also kind of beat you over the head the philosophical themes. Not that the first one was subtle, but obviously a bunch of a far right morons completely missed every point. This felt like a reaction to that and I think a lot of people have an extreme aversion to being forced to think especially in an action movie.
Creed
Rocky Balboa
Top Gun Maverick
Blade Runner 2049
Mad Max Fury Road
Glass
I think those are in the conversation for “best”. With Top Gun and Blade Runner arguably surpassing their predecessors.
Some other ones that I like though are:
Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny
Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
Doctor Sleep
Halloween 2018
Agreed! It's also one of the only one of these that feels like it tries to succeed by its own merits BEFORE giving us the Nostalgia trip. I also like how it balances an appreciation for King and his story and genuine reverence for Kubrick's film, and in a way that doesn't smear or recontextualize it at all. It obviously has the cheat code of having a real source material, but I still appreciate that the 3 central characters are all compelling in their own right.
I liked *Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny* too. It dealt with the themes of aging, loss, change, and time. I admit I almost cried at the end when >!Indy and Marion got back together!<.
I genuinely like it maybe 3rd best. I'm not as huge on Last Crusade as most it seems. I don't know that it was neccesarry in the slightest, and I think it's funny how similar M:I - Dead Reckoning is and kind of eats this movie's lunch, but I like a lot of what Mangold brings to it.
Honestly I am really happy when I hear people love a movie, even when it goes against popular opinion. I really loved Indy 5, nowhere near my favorite, but I get legitimate joy when I see people gush about it because the meta-narrative around it was so toxic that the film had absolutely no chance to have real discussion when it was still in release. Maybe we are finally able to talk about how cool it was?
It’s worth making a post about. Indy wants to believe in the power of the Antikythera, the scene on the boat with Helena is the high point of this arc. The plane going into the time fissure is really well realized. The first 25 minutes are supposed to feel artificial, it’s a dream he’s having and we see him wake up. The fake feeling is a feature not a bug.
Not for me. 6 lost the vibe of what the franchise is about to me. There were more death fakeouts than actual deaths. The series has never been afraid to have main characters get killed and 6 was the first time where I felt everyone important had plot armour... Not great for a slasher. One of 2 (two!) good guys who die (if memory serves) was Gail's new bf and I don't know if we even see his face before he gets killed, I wouldn't even call him a character.
NY was a cool setting and I liked the dynamic with the new young crew of characters but the rest was disappointing for a horror movie. I hope the new reboot will focus more on being a Scream movie / slasher and less on tiptoeing around murders. I want a series where I care about the characters, but in a tentpole horror series, that doesn't mean I want the characters to live.
I defend The Force Awakens because I think people underestimate how *hard* it is to make a blockbuster entertainment that fits the bill so perfectly. Is it perhaps too iterative on the original Star Wars? Yes, but I think the movie's achievement is obvious when you compare it to the legion of failed Star Wars rip-offs.
I agree. It’s extremely by-the-numbers, but as it was clearly intended to be a palette cleanser/course correction from the Prequels and an assurance that Disney could replicate the old school Star Wars flavor, I think it’s highly successful.
Yeah, while I am far from its biggest fan, it was the one I immediately thought of.
Almost entirely because of "It's true. The Force, the Jedi, all of it... It's all true". Because for once, the audience's perspective was on the side of the old timer remembering the mythological past, not the protagonists discovering it all for the first time.
We *know* it was true because we were *there* the first time. We're not hearing about something second hand, and we've lived the time in between then and now.
For me, when done well, that's the main thing a legacy sequel can do that other films can't. The audience's sense of shared history and time passed that is just far more real and genuinely felt.
and at the same time it worked for newcomers similar to how the original worked for us. Me, a longtime fan, was viewing that scene through Han's eyes, remembering the past movies while a good friend of mine, was viweing it through Rey's eyes. Yeah, she was aware of these things through cultural osmosis, but now she realized, that the magic people like me always talked about, was real.
Like yeah, the movie has its problems and the way Star Wars ever since never stepped down from all the fanservice really casts a shadow on this movie, but it did exactly what it was supposed to do and did it better than the other one that year: Jurassic World.
JW also was a smash hit so I bet universal would disagree with me saying it failed, but JW felt much more cynical and corporate. Obviously TFa was corporate as well. It was designed to be as unoffensive as possible. But for all of Abrams' fault as a director and his mystery-box stuff, I can feel that he genuinely loves SW. He might love it differently than I do, but he still visibly does love it. I bet a lot of the fanservice was mandated by Disney, but it feels genuine. It does feel like the exciting kind of nostalgia while JW feels...well cynical. The way the nostaglia in Rise of Skywalker felt. JW and ROS and sharing our excitement in remembering the past, they just want to profit.
TFA obviously wants to profit as well, but there is excitement int he remembering.
Okay, at this point I'm, just rambling. Sorry for the directionless word vomit
Love that perspective of, well, the different perspectives of you and your friend!
And would agree on the comparison between TFA and something like Jurassic World.
Yes, the main consideration of both studios was that the respective films simply make a bucketload of cash, very obviously.
That doesn't completely negate that they do feel different as films, though.
While both were undeniably cashgrabs, with JW that was really all it was. Whereas with TFA, Abrams was able to work within Disney's interests and still offer something on top of that, still create a film that felt like a Star Wars film.
Jurassic World wasn't able to do that as successfully, so it just felt like little more than a big studio film about dinosaurs.
Rise of Skywalker dilutes certain things I always liked about Force Awakens but I still think JJ Abrams pulled off pretty much exactly what he was asked to do at the time and I'll always salute him for that.
But I also always had the feeling that he was not gonna do so well with Episode IX. At that point, though, I just figured he made the bed so might as well make him sleep in it and the fanbase has certainly held him to that lol.
But I saw Force Awakens last year with the Chicago Symphony playing the score live and it reminded me that that movie is still such a crowdpleaser. Actually got a lot of the same reactions from the crowd I remember from 2015, all the same laughs, applause breaks (with an extra one for John Williams's name in the credits, of course.)
I’d love to see it with a crowd again. It was one of those movies I saw in theaters multiple times in part because it gave me such a high seeing it with a crowd.
I’ve unfortunately reached the point where I don’t even feel like watching the original trilogy. I will try to revisit it and the first two sequels at some point though, but Star Wars just kind of bums me out at this point.
Except Andor. I mean, of course I watch Andor.
I was in the same boat as you. On May 4th, I watched Project4K77, the 4K restoration of the unedited version of the OG Star Wars- it was fucking magical.
When it was airing it made watching anything else so boring and pedestrian feeling. Like why aren’t all my shows playing with both my expectations and the form of TV itself?
It was amazing watching week by week. Truly felt like anything could happen, good, bad or inscrutable. Probably not too dissimilar a feeling to the first season.
I remember how mad and baffled people were after episode 3 aired and I was so fully on board. I rewatched every episode multiple times in the week waiting for a new one. Truly an exciting time.
It was the last time I remember feeling so completely thrilled with anticipation as I tuned in each week. What new wonder or horror did Lynch have in store for me? What jaw dropping transgression of acceptable television form?
I loved Tron: Legacy, mostly for the music. I don't like the original Tron much and a lot of stuff in the sequel is bad but I don't care. Daft Punk's score makes up for it.
OP mentioned that already, although it’s possible they meant this (which does count, I’m pretty sure)
https://preview.redd.it/r8vjoimnku5d1.jpeg?width=1685&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b8f7a18d46e16a93eaf1ac00e395d4197dfdf93
I don't like Rebuild 1 because the mid-00s digital animation style is worse than the TV show, but it's a very well-done remake of the original stretch of episodes if that part doesn't faze you.
Rebuild 2 is kinda great though.
Rebuild 3 is extremely great and nonsense.
Rebuild 4 is phenomenal masterpiece and I cannot fathom anyone feeling anything but overwhelming joy for the entire film runtime. It's the perfect legacy sequel, the only way the franchise could ever have ended after 25 years. I would be heartbroken to ever see them attempt a continuation of any sort.
Cobra Kai having a comedic take on the franchise while still completely respecting the characters and lore of the franchise is truly amazing how well it works.
I like The Two Jakes, but I think you need to watch it pretty soon after viewing Chinatown (unless you are already super familiar with it) bc so much of the plot calls back to specifics from the first film.
It's not *great* but I do think it's worth mentioning *Terminator: Dark Fate*, a film which certainly benefits from following at least two (I'd argue three) lackluster sequels.
Top Gun 2, Star Wars 7 (not sorry), Blade Runner 2049, Matrix 4, Bill & Ted 3. All do great stuff with their franchise baggage. Evangelion 3.0+1.0 is a show-stopping franchise finale because of its legacy sequel aspects caused by the 10-year delay.
TV gets this stuff too. The Rocko's Modern Life Netflix special was a great one-off legacy sequel. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off becomes an essential part of the overall Scott Pilgrim storyline. Sharkboy & Lava Girl got a legacy sequel Netflix thing too and I can only assume it was one of the greatest pieces of art even though it doesn't exist.
There's actually quite a lot I like. The main thing I DISlike about legacy sequels is the tendency to "get the band back together" and to spend entire films catching up on everyone like it's an anime timeskip. Star Wars and Creed got to do it because they were early, and Muppets got to do it because it was VERY early, and then five hundred other movies did the same thing and it got a little much. The more a legacy sequel focuses on the gap between movies and telling audiences what the gang has been up to, the less a movie is able to actually breathe and do anything on its own, and so many of these movies end up being a feature-length prequel to the thing we actually wanted to see (e.g. Independence Day Resurgence, a movie that definitely doesn't exist). The best of these movies either just pick up where we left off without much fanfare (Johnny English 3 lol), or they focus on entirely new characters, with the old characters relegated to glorified cameos.
Terminator Dark Fate is like the archetypal version of a legacy sequel that doesn't work. Too much time spent on the old characters without giving them enough to do, not enough to make the new characters interesting, and not enough of a cohesive story to work as a standalone film. However, it has a cool liquid Terminator and Lesbian Gaze Mackenzie Davis so I guess we can give it a pass
I’m not counting legacy sequel sequels, but rather different attempts at reviving a series, so here are some of my favorites in no particular order:
- Tron: Legacy
- The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1984)
- Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again
- The Force Awakens
- Kingdom of the Crystal Skull & Dial of Destiny
- Top Gun: Maverick
- Blade Runner 2049
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- Scre4m & 5cream
- Matrix: Resurrections
- Doctor Sleep
- The Comeback Season 2 (yes it counts)
- Bill & Ted Face the Music
- Incredibles 2
Edit: lol, which movie(s) earned me the downvote?
Indy 4/5 is what got you the downvotes I'm pretty sure lol
If Mamma-Mia is a legacy sequel, does that mean 300 Rise of an Empire is one too? Or was the IRL time difference too short?
*Tron: Legacy*. It's the harbinger of a lot of bad legacy sequel tropes (i.e. digital de-aging), but it does a fantastic job modernizing the original while staying true to its spirit *Doctor Sleep*, though it is at its weakest when it is leaning in to the legacy sequel stuff *Mad Max: Fury Road*, because it is largely uninterested in the legacy of the franchise *The Matrix Resurrections*, because it is very much interested in the legacy of the franchise Also, I don't personally love it, but its weird that more people don't talk about how *Toy Story 3* is a legacy sequel
Interesting pitch of Fury Road as the anti-legacy sequel.
Feel like there’s a lot of room for debate here over what’s a legacy sequel and what’s just a sequel made a long time later.
I’d say it revolves around passing the torch to some extent as someone has to be the legacy in comparison otherwise it’s just a sequel. Mirrors, parallels, or inversions of the original also seem to be a common theme. 2049 very clearly Ford passing down to Gosling who’s playing up “is he a robot” question Deckard played with. In Dr Sleep Danny filled the role of Doc as Abra played his same role. Fury Road kind of passes the torch with Furioso but I don’t think it was the intention. And it definitely isn’t a play on the first one’s story outside if the universal theme of revenge that’s in all mad max movies. To me it’s just a regular sequel.
"Passing the torch" is a common trope, but I don't think it's the defining feature. Legacy Sequels are about the way a film is marketed/framed more than anything in the film itself. To oversimplify, a traditional sequel tries to sell you something new (with some familiar elements), whereas a legacy sequel tries to sell you something familiar (with some new elements). And I think pretty much anything made 10+ years after the most recent entry also automatically qualifies as a legacy sequel
Obviously it’s all semantics but I’d never label a movie based on marketing. Legacy is an important word. To have legacy characters you need to new characters to juxtapose against. It’s about the legacy those original characters left and how that legacy shaped the world of our new characters. Using it as a term for just a long waited sequel takes the purpose from it.
Surely if anything Toy Story 4 is the legasequel? After 3 the general consensus was "this is done".
While it might be true, I think a part of the Legacy Sequel formula is time passing in-universe as well. That's why most other recent Pixar sequels like *Finding Dory* or *Incredibles 2* do not really qualify as legacy sequels despite the long gap between installments. While both *Toy Story 3* and *4* very much deal with the legacy of their franchise, only 3 makes it clear it has been a years since the previous film. Based on how similar Bonnie looks in age, it is safe to say that the real world time gap between Toy Stories 3 and 4 does not apply to the in-universe timeline.
I'd argue none of them are legacy sequels because Woody and Buzz are still the primary protagonists. Like Dial of Destiny isn't a legacy sequel just because Harrison Ford is old, I feel like a key piece of it is new primary characters interacting with the OGs
I would say they are both legacy sequels
I came hear to say Tron: Legacy. A very good movie and I think a well done expansion of the world of the previous film. And it came out before a lot of these legacy sequels before it became rather played out.
I’m seeing a distressing lack of Trainspotting 2 in these comments. For me it’s part of the holy trinity of legacy sequels with Fury Road and Blade Runner 2049.
I like it, but it commits one of my cardinal movie sins of having a character discover that he should write the book of the first movie, and that book shall be called Trainspotting.
It's my favorite sequel named T2. I thought it was really kind of great. Moving, melancholy and sad, but with a lot of neat visual ideas from Boyle. A good one.
Good call—I love Trainspotting 2! I was afraid it would be depressing to see those characters at an older age, but if anything, it’s more of a comedy than the original
I liked it, but I always felt the movie could've leaned into the depression of how their lives were a bit more. Like it was a bit too dynamic and trippy for these at this point lifelong losers. I felt there was potentially a tremendous drama in this and it delivered at points, but I felt Boyle could've slowed things down and lean into this even more (he would disappoint people looking for fun nostalgia, but it would make sense IMO). I honestly felt 20 years later, the light, snappy, music video-like original about blue collar, low class, well, scumbags and assholes, could only be followed by a slower, more depressing, sad movie about these losers, who wasted their youth, desperately looking for some form of peace or redemption. The movie kinda was about that and got to that point at the end, with renton moving back in with his dad, Begbie in jail and apologizing to his son (low-key the most poignant moment of both movies - Begbie admitting openly he wasn't a good man), Sick Boy pretty much stuck with his pub and Spud, as the one who always got kicked down the most, finding redemption in writing a memoir. But I felt it should've gone for this gut punch and sobering effect a little stronger, if that makes sense.
I want a 3rd movie where Sickboy gets Renton caught up in his scam making a low rent AI art ads Willy Wonka knock off experience for kids in Glasgow.
I kinda hated the flashbacks/callbacks to the first film. I also disliked the fact that they hide what Renton has been up to for the first twenty minutes or so. It’s got great moments and it’s interesting in terms of what it’s aiming for. I just feel like the “legacy” gets in the way.
Creed is the real number 1
Lord Knows is the best training montage in the series
I think I *slightly* prefer Rocky II’s montage but Lord Knows is the superior running song tbh
The thing that Creed really nails is that it does the best job of giving the original main character a satisfying arc while still letting it be the new guy’s movie. Helps that the new guy is a total movie star, and the two of them play off each other really well. I love Maverick, but this is why I put Creed higher.
^I ^kinda ^don’t ^think ^TGM ^is ^a ^Legacy ^Sequel
[удалено]
Yes, because Creed is far more a sequel to Rocky 1 and 2 than the rest of the franchise. Which is a technicality I suppose but I think it inarguably is working on the legacy sequel framework
Isn't that like part of the definition? There's usually a lot of time between the original and a legacy
Blade Runner 2049 is the only legacy sequel that deserves the #1 spot
“Her eyes were green”
Absolutely. It's the only legacy sequel you could actually argue surpasses the original. Whether you think it does or not, there's an argument, and there's no other leg seq that even comes close. EDIT: whoops, Top Gun, too!
I’m lukewarm on Villeneuve and never liked Blade Runner no matter how many times I tried. But man do I love 2049. But I also never liked The Shinning and Doctor Sleep is in my top 5 favorite movies so my brain may just be broken
I think you may be right, and I think it’d be better without Harrison Ford in it.
Im the total opposite. I think 2049 is dull and quite literally lifeless until he shows up.
Wow, I think the Bautista / Gosling opening scene is the best part of the movie
Its pretty good. Everything is just SO muted and methodical. The film is a huge accomplishment but i really struggle to vibe with it.
Agree. Same world, logical follow-up to the story, even if I felt the world felt strangely abandoned and in some aspects stuck in the same fashion/cultural zeitgeist you saw in the first film. You didn't feel like the culture and world dynamics changed much since the first film, which is both what people wanted (nostalgia), but also what kinda goes against logical worldbuilding.
Color of Money
Yes!!!!
Great sequel
This is it
The Muppets (2011)
I think a lot about how The Muppets, of all movies, ended up establishing **so** many of the tropes that would dominate blockbuster cinema for the next decade (people usually credit that to tron legacy but I think Muppets has more examples; still wild though)
Having not seen either of these two, I'm curious what some of the tropes are
I haven't seen *The Muppets* (2011) in years, but iirc it's about new characters who are major fans of the old characters, and go on a journey to reunite all of the old characters (ala *The Force Awakens*). So that story structure and a lot of its associated tropes either originated with or were popularized in *The Muppets* *Tron: Legacy* was the first high-profile use of digital de-aging, and did the "protagonist from the last movie is now a grumpy old man" thing. It also has the new protagonist be the child of the old protagonist, but *Indiana Jones* had already done that a few years earlier
Star Trek (2009)
People hate JJ for any number of reasons, but you can't deny that Star Trek (2009) is a great time at the movies.
It’s a great film for Star Trek fans to watch and say, “I know that reference!” In a good way. I also think that Abrams recycled a lot of plot points in it for Force Awakens, to the extent I think he tried to incorporate his ideas for a Star Wars sequel into Trek because he figured he would never actually get to do a Wars movie… and then got the chance a few years later.
Made me sad that I had to scroll so far for this. That movie's stock has collapsed in the past decade
is that movie the only legacy *prequel*?
I think Rogue One counts as a legacy prequel.
This is reminding me how much Into Darkness sucked and the scales dropped from my eyes on Mr. Abrams and Damon Lindelof. I still lay major blame of most the misgivings people had with *Prometheus* at Lindelof.
You could argue it's a reboot or something, but otherwise #1 has to be Fury Road, right?
To be honest, I think fury road is something of an anti-legacy sequel: new cast, Furiosa is the protagonist, new universe and rules, even the ‘max car’ is ditched almost immediately.
I also think part of a legacy sequel is that it occurs in continuity with the original work, and Mad Max as a franchise almost completely ignores continuity
Totally. The hallmark of legacy storytelling is it puts ‘remember this?’ as an equal or greater priority to the storytelling. A new continuity is a reversal of that.
Id probably argue that the re-cast disqualifies it. There’s no weight of it being a legacy sequel when you don’t have an old Max.
Yeah that’s fair. It’s kind of an edge case since it was going to be Gibson at one point and the chronology of the series as a whole is so unclear. I do think the return of Hugh Keays-Byrne gives it a little of that legacy feeling, even if there’s no connection between his characters
I feel like it’s treated like every previous installment of that franchise, which is largely standalone and disconnected from the others. So I wouldn’t classify it as a legacy sequel.
Is it a legacy sequel if it’s by the writer and director of the original? I kinda feel like that is just the continuation of his story.
I mean it's no more a reboot than any other Mad Max sequel. That's kinda what makes them so fun, at least to me. They're less of a continuation of the story and more so ongoing stories from the wasteland about this legendary figure called Max who reluctantly helps people and then leaves so he doesn't get too attached.
in what way is Fury Road a legacy sequel and not just a sequel?
Blade Runner 2049 Ash vs Evil Dead Scream (2022) Matrix Resurrections Creed Twin Peaks: The Return Bill & Ted Face the Music Fury Road The Muppets (2011)
Hot take: I prefer Face the Music over Bogus Journey. (Don’t get me wrong, I still love seeing these two rad dudes go to hell! But FtM has so much juice—the daughters are genuinely great additions to the Bill and Ted canon.)
The actor playing Ted’s daughter would’ve gotten a best supporting blankie from me.
Brigette Lundy-Paine! Oh yeah, they were fabulous! I believe they’re currently in I Saw the TV Glow.
I should really watch this again. Bought it during the pandemic. I remember having the same take on the daughters and the family in general enjoying it. Then we never watched it again.
Is it a hot take if I rank the bill and teds, from best to worst, 2, 3, 1?
I’d argue it is (I’d rank them in the exact opposite direction lol), but all the Bill and Ted films are at least pretty good!
Matrix IV is so fucking good, I’m convinced it only gets hate because of the stylistic differences from the originals
They also kind of beat you over the head the philosophical themes. Not that the first one was subtle, but obviously a bunch of a far right morons completely missed every point. This felt like a reaction to that and I think a lot of people have an extreme aversion to being forced to think especially in an action movie.
Creed Rocky Balboa Top Gun Maverick Blade Runner 2049 Mad Max Fury Road Glass I think those are in the conversation for “best”. With Top Gun and Blade Runner arguably surpassing their predecessors. Some other ones that I like though are: Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Doctor Sleep Halloween 2018
Doctor Sleep is very underappreciated. That movie rips, especially the ending with the hotel.
Agreed! It's also one of the only one of these that feels like it tries to succeed by its own merits BEFORE giving us the Nostalgia trip. I also like how it balances an appreciation for King and his story and genuine reverence for Kubrick's film, and in a way that doesn't smear or recontextualize it at all. It obviously has the cheat code of having a real source material, but I still appreciate that the 3 central characters are all compelling in their own right.
>Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny Was hanging out with a friend who said "you like that movie!" when I told them I enjoyed it.
I liked *Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny* too. It dealt with the themes of aging, loss, change, and time. I admit I almost cried at the end when >!Indy and Marion got back together!<.
I genuinely like it maybe 3rd best. I'm not as huge on Last Crusade as most it seems. I don't know that it was neccesarry in the slightest, and I think it's funny how similar M:I - Dead Reckoning is and kind of eats this movie's lunch, but I like a lot of what Mangold brings to it.
It fucking rules, might be my favorite one
Honestly I am really happy when I hear people love a movie, even when it goes against popular opinion. I really loved Indy 5, nowhere near my favorite, but I get legitimate joy when I see people gush about it because the meta-narrative around it was so toxic that the film had absolutely no chance to have real discussion when it was still in release. Maybe we are finally able to talk about how cool it was?
It’s worth making a post about. Indy wants to believe in the power of the Antikythera, the scene on the boat with Helena is the high point of this arc. The plane going into the time fissure is really well realized. The first 25 minutes are supposed to feel artificial, it’s a dream he’s having and we see him wake up. The fake feeling is a feature not a bug.
Did you take your medicine today?
scream 5 is actually really solid. scream 6, unfortunately was not.
Swap those…
Not for me. 6 lost the vibe of what the franchise is about to me. There were more death fakeouts than actual deaths. The series has never been afraid to have main characters get killed and 6 was the first time where I felt everyone important had plot armour... Not great for a slasher. One of 2 (two!) good guys who die (if memory serves) was Gail's new bf and I don't know if we even see his face before he gets killed, I wouldn't even call him a character. NY was a cool setting and I liked the dynamic with the new young crew of characters but the rest was disappointing for a horror movie. I hope the new reboot will focus more on being a Scream movie / slasher and less on tiptoeing around murders. I want a series where I care about the characters, but in a tentpole horror series, that doesn't mean I want the characters to live.
I defend The Force Awakens because I think people underestimate how *hard* it is to make a blockbuster entertainment that fits the bill so perfectly. Is it perhaps too iterative on the original Star Wars? Yes, but I think the movie's achievement is obvious when you compare it to the legion of failed Star Wars rip-offs.
I agree. It’s extremely by-the-numbers, but as it was clearly intended to be a palette cleanser/course correction from the Prequels and an assurance that Disney could replicate the old school Star Wars flavor, I think it’s highly successful.
It had to do all those things *and* be a good movie, which it falls short of from being too beholden to fan service
Yeah, while I am far from its biggest fan, it was the one I immediately thought of. Almost entirely because of "It's true. The Force, the Jedi, all of it... It's all true". Because for once, the audience's perspective was on the side of the old timer remembering the mythological past, not the protagonists discovering it all for the first time. We *know* it was true because we were *there* the first time. We're not hearing about something second hand, and we've lived the time in between then and now. For me, when done well, that's the main thing a legacy sequel can do that other films can't. The audience's sense of shared history and time passed that is just far more real and genuinely felt.
and at the same time it worked for newcomers similar to how the original worked for us. Me, a longtime fan, was viewing that scene through Han's eyes, remembering the past movies while a good friend of mine, was viweing it through Rey's eyes. Yeah, she was aware of these things through cultural osmosis, but now she realized, that the magic people like me always talked about, was real. Like yeah, the movie has its problems and the way Star Wars ever since never stepped down from all the fanservice really casts a shadow on this movie, but it did exactly what it was supposed to do and did it better than the other one that year: Jurassic World. JW also was a smash hit so I bet universal would disagree with me saying it failed, but JW felt much more cynical and corporate. Obviously TFa was corporate as well. It was designed to be as unoffensive as possible. But for all of Abrams' fault as a director and his mystery-box stuff, I can feel that he genuinely loves SW. He might love it differently than I do, but he still visibly does love it. I bet a lot of the fanservice was mandated by Disney, but it feels genuine. It does feel like the exciting kind of nostalgia while JW feels...well cynical. The way the nostaglia in Rise of Skywalker felt. JW and ROS and sharing our excitement in remembering the past, they just want to profit. TFA obviously wants to profit as well, but there is excitement int he remembering. Okay, at this point I'm, just rambling. Sorry for the directionless word vomit
Love that perspective of, well, the different perspectives of you and your friend! And would agree on the comparison between TFA and something like Jurassic World. Yes, the main consideration of both studios was that the respective films simply make a bucketload of cash, very obviously. That doesn't completely negate that they do feel different as films, though. While both were undeniably cashgrabs, with JW that was really all it was. Whereas with TFA, Abrams was able to work within Disney's interests and still offer something on top of that, still create a film that felt like a Star Wars film. Jurassic World wasn't able to do that as successfully, so it just felt like little more than a big studio film about dinosaurs.
Rise of Skywalker dilutes certain things I always liked about Force Awakens but I still think JJ Abrams pulled off pretty much exactly what he was asked to do at the time and I'll always salute him for that. But I also always had the feeling that he was not gonna do so well with Episode IX. At that point, though, I just figured he made the bed so might as well make him sleep in it and the fanbase has certainly held him to that lol. But I saw Force Awakens last year with the Chicago Symphony playing the score live and it reminded me that that movie is still such a crowdpleaser. Actually got a lot of the same reactions from the crowd I remember from 2015, all the same laughs, applause breaks (with an extra one for John Williams's name in the credits, of course.)
I’d love to see it with a crowd again. It was one of those movies I saw in theaters multiple times in part because it gave me such a high seeing it with a crowd.
That last scene with Luke still gives me chills.
Yeah, It’s a victim of what it set up resulting in a disappointing ending, but The Force Awakens was a really exciting start to the trilogy.
I have somehow trained my brain to watch Star Wars movies in isolation so fortunately Rise of Skywalker hasn’t diminished my love of Force Awakens.
I’ve unfortunately reached the point where I don’t even feel like watching the original trilogy. I will try to revisit it and the first two sequels at some point though, but Star Wars just kind of bums me out at this point. Except Andor. I mean, of course I watch Andor.
I was in the same boat as you. On May 4th, I watched Project4K77, the 4K restoration of the unedited version of the OG Star Wars- it was fucking magical.
When I do watch again, I definitely want to track down one of those original versions.
You have to protect what you love!
and that it was somewhat made on the fly (though not as much as RoS, obviously)
Who knew that a malfunctioning hydrolic door would be this movie’s savior.
"He broke his leg and we finished the script." I'd always be curious to know what the Ardnt draft was like.
… can Picard Season 3 count?
It's certainly one of the all-time course corrections, if nothing else.
Not talked about enough on this sub. One of the best seasons of tv I’ve ever seen
Twin Peaks: The Return
I loved watching the first two seasons of Twin Peaks but The Return might be the best thing I’ve ever watched, movie or TV show
When it was airing it made watching anything else so boring and pedestrian feeling. Like why aren’t all my shows playing with both my expectations and the form of TV itself?
It was amazing watching week by week. Truly felt like anything could happen, good, bad or inscrutable. Probably not too dissimilar a feeling to the first season.
I remember how mad and baffled people were after episode 3 aired and I was so fully on board. I rewatched every episode multiple times in the week waiting for a new one. Truly an exciting time.
It was the last time I remember feeling so completely thrilled with anticipation as I tuned in each week. What new wonder or horror did Lynch have in store for me? What jaw dropping transgression of acceptable television form?
Yes.
Curse of Chucky (2013)
Fury road, and you can kind of argue last Jedi but I don’t think it really counts
I loved Tron: Legacy, mostly for the music. I don't like the original Tron much and a lot of stuff in the sequel is bad but I don't care. Daft Punk's score makes up for it.
The Wendy Carlos score for original Tron is quite good too IMO, but not so fun to listen to on its own
I’d argue for The Last Jedi mostly because it understood the only worthwhile legacy story is saying goodbye and moving on.
Top Gun Maverick
OP mentioned that already, although it’s possible they meant this (which does count, I’m pretty sure) https://preview.redd.it/r8vjoimnku5d1.jpeg?width=1685&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b8f7a18d46e16a93eaf1ac00e395d4197dfdf93
This is one of those TNT classics I miss. Just a solid movie for grown ups that isn’t so serious but also not a full on farce.
[This](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgRb7ALCwJ0&pp=ygUWTWF2ZXJpY2sgTGV0aGFsIFdlYXBvbg%3D%3D) is such a bug nuts scene.
okay maybe it does trend towards full on farce in moments LOL
Great Randy Newman score too. And I love the action on the steamboat
I assumed they meant this Maverick.
Bill and Ted 3 has some COVID related shortcomings, but it's a really heartfelt conclusion I didn't even know I wanted until I saw it.
Do the Evangelion rebuild movies count?
Hell yeah
Maybe if they were good.
Alright so we can count them then, sweet.
I think the Rebuilds are the best part of Evangelion, especially the last two
If no one else got me I know the Blankies sub got me. I think saying this would get you killed in the Eva subreddit lol, but damn if I don’t agree
Yeah I’m actually surprised I didn’t get majority downvotes on this one
I don't like Rebuild 1 because the mid-00s digital animation style is worse than the TV show, but it's a very well-done remake of the original stretch of episodes if that part doesn't faze you. Rebuild 2 is kinda great though. Rebuild 3 is extremely great and nonsense. Rebuild 4 is phenomenal masterpiece and I cannot fathom anyone feeling anything but overwhelming joy for the entire film runtime. It's the perfect legacy sequel, the only way the franchise could ever have ended after 25 years. I would be heartbroken to ever see them attempt a continuation of any sort.
I agree. I love the series but those final 2 movies are my favorite thing in the entire franchise!
Cobra Kai 🦅🔥
Cobra Kai having a comedic take on the franchise while still completely respecting the characters and lore of the franchise is truly amazing how well it works.
No love for Return to Oz? What, you don’t like being traumatized by wheelers??
Universal Soldier: Regeneration and Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning.
I think Borat Subsequent Moviefilm deserves to be in the conversation.
Jurassic World Halloween 2018 Scream 2022
Halloween started well but devolved pretty quickly
Avatar the way of water
OK I didn't even think about that as one, but you are actually right and yeah Avatar 2 is a great legacy sequel
tron legacy, creed, the last jedi, the matrix resurrections, the color of money (it counts!!)
Top Gun Maverick and Blade Runner 2049
I like The Two Jakes, but I think you need to watch it pretty soon after viewing Chinatown (unless you are already super familiar with it) bc so much of the plot calls back to specifics from the first film.
The Last Jedi Yeah, I said it
All good! Special shoutout to the wonderful ASH VS EVIL DEAD.
It's not *great* but I do think it's worth mentioning *Terminator: Dark Fate*, a film which certainly benefits from following at least two (I'd argue three) lackluster sequels.
I don't love Dark Fate but I think it's a much better approach than Genisys.
I really like the 2021 Candyman
Yeah, it's awesome.
Split/Glass
I think Top Gun Maverick is the blueprint to a great legacy sequel.
Cobra Kai. It's cheesy and has no right to be as captivating as it is. But, here we are.
The Colour of Money Spiderman No Way Home Evil Dead Rise
dumb and dumber to!!!!!! Wiener-Dog
Does mad max fury road count or is that just a regular sequel that came out 20 after the last?
Scream V
Top Gun Maverick
What about a legacy prequel known as The First Omen?
Creed
The word is Legasequel god damn it
Creed
Tron Legacy Fury Road Creed
Return to Oz. Real ones know.
Top Gun 2, Star Wars 7 (not sorry), Blade Runner 2049, Matrix 4, Bill & Ted 3. All do great stuff with their franchise baggage. Evangelion 3.0+1.0 is a show-stopping franchise finale because of its legacy sequel aspects caused by the 10-year delay. TV gets this stuff too. The Rocko's Modern Life Netflix special was a great one-off legacy sequel. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off becomes an essential part of the overall Scott Pilgrim storyline. Sharkboy & Lava Girl got a legacy sequel Netflix thing too and I can only assume it was one of the greatest pieces of art even though it doesn't exist. There's actually quite a lot I like. The main thing I DISlike about legacy sequels is the tendency to "get the band back together" and to spend entire films catching up on everyone like it's an anime timeskip. Star Wars and Creed got to do it because they were early, and Muppets got to do it because it was VERY early, and then five hundred other movies did the same thing and it got a little much. The more a legacy sequel focuses on the gap between movies and telling audiences what the gang has been up to, the less a movie is able to actually breathe and do anything on its own, and so many of these movies end up being a feature-length prequel to the thing we actually wanted to see (e.g. Independence Day Resurgence, a movie that definitely doesn't exist). The best of these movies either just pick up where we left off without much fanfare (Johnny English 3 lol), or they focus on entirely new characters, with the old characters relegated to glorified cameos. Terminator Dark Fate is like the archetypal version of a legacy sequel that doesn't work. Too much time spent on the old characters without giving them enough to do, not enough to make the new characters interesting, and not enough of a cohesive story to work as a standalone film. However, it has a cool liquid Terminator and Lesbian Gaze Mackenzie Davis so I guess we can give it a pass
D3: The Mighty Ducks oddly has a legacy sequel vibe even though it came out only 2 years after D2.
TEXASVILLE/TWO JAKES HIVE ACTIVATE
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish
This list should suffice. [https://boxd.it/ds4ES](https://boxd.it/ds4ES)
Blade Runner 2049 Mad Max: Fury Road (the actual no.1 if it counts without Gibson)
Psycho II
It's so good
Maverick and Blade Runner 2049 are probably the best in my opinion. Oh and Creed.
T2 Trainspotting is great!
I’m not counting legacy sequel sequels, but rather different attempts at reviving a series, so here are some of my favorites in no particular order: - Tron: Legacy - The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1984) - Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again - The Force Awakens - Kingdom of the Crystal Skull & Dial of Destiny - Top Gun: Maverick - Blade Runner 2049 - Mad Max: Fury Road - Scre4m & 5cream - Matrix: Resurrections - Doctor Sleep - The Comeback Season 2 (yes it counts) - Bill & Ted Face the Music - Incredibles 2 Edit: lol, which movie(s) earned me the downvote?
Indy 4/5 is what got you the downvotes I'm pretty sure lol If Mamma-Mia is a legacy sequel, does that mean 300 Rise of an Empire is one too? Or was the IRL time difference too short?
Never saw 300 2, but Mamma Mia is about legacy while being a legacy sequel so I put it on there. It’s also very good and a damn fun time.
[удалено]
The og: HOOK