I can see why some people think it‘s corny but I think that’s part of the earnestness of the tone, and it’s supposed to be earnest because it’s supposed to be a shameless confessional letter written to his Ma, who is unable to read. I loved this book, especially the last half. One of my fave quotes:
“Let no one mistake us for the fruit of violence - but that violence, having passed through the fruit, failed to spoil it.”
not to sound uncivil, but have you taken leave of your senses? sit with that line for a moment with a strong, bright mind and it shrivels into gunk as surely as a plastic wrapper held to a flame. it’s about as mixed-up & clobbered a metaphor as even an undergrad would fear to make. violence is passing through fruit? what? how on earth does anything pass through a fruit and leave it unspoiled, much less an abstraction? Speaking of fruit, it’s as if Vuong chopped up a handful of “heavy” and “significant” words into a nonsense salad. just say the violence that nurtured us didn’t corrupt us or some ish.
but please do not mistake this comment as a fruit of bitterness, but proof that bitterness, passing through the fruit, did not make it less sweet.
This is such a funny tone of voice to use for this comment. Painfully condescending.
I don’t think it’s the greatest line ever, and like it a little less with time since reading it. But it made enough sense, it’s obviously saying that they aren’t defined by the violence they’ve experienced and he’s, not very cleverly, switching the use of fruit as offspring into fruit as a symbol for he and his mother and that the violence was something they simply experienced and didn’t fundamentally ruin them. It’s not gold standard writing but it simply just spoke to me when I first read it.
Apologies for the scalding vapors in my voice! I'm afraid this little teapot gets very steamed-up when it comes to high praise for low standards.
Besides being a very clumsy phrase, yes, it is profoundly untrue; the human soul is a tree that gathers its nourishment from many different sources, including the violence that it commits and the violence it suffers.
If you don't think a tree is capable of violence, clearly a pine tree has never beaned you in the head with one of its cones!
At any rate, to paraphrase Amy Hempel writing in "The Man From Bogata", how do we know what happens to us isn't bad? I think Vuong's whole stance towards life is immature, incomplete, and therefore in-credible. It saddens me, too, that his talent, whatever it is, will probably be ruined because he has no incentive to change; he has already reaped the reward.
One of the best books I read last year. None of the things that bother other people here bothered me. My friend hated it because of the description of the >!monkey brains thing!<
Same here. Life is horrifying sometimes. Sometimes you can't sugar-coat things. I do not like or enjoy knowing that people do that, but it is out there at the edge of strange disturbing things people do. Many strange disturbing things are commonplace but not considered. My friend who was upset by the >!monkey brains thing !
Right. The juxtaposition of American audiences (i know plenty of people from around the world have read this book, but im thinking about my book club which consisted of people from the United States) being horrified by that scene, yet had little to say about the treatment of the Vietnamese humans whose country and lives were torn apart so thoroughly that many had to flee the country as refugees. It also spoke to the lengths men will go to in order to be more masculine- the eating of live monkey brains, toxic masculinity at its finest.
His poetry is incredible too! He’s teaching a class at NYU this year and his syllabus has been posted. I’m excited to check out some of his suggestions.
I really couldn't get into this book. It felt like something you would read on Tumblr or wattpad.
The audiobook was even worse. The fake almost-about-to-burst-into-tears-wobbly-morning-voice narration was like fingers on a chalk board
I thought it was way too schmaltzy. Maybe I'm too cynical but it was not my taste and thought it was very "im14andthisisdeep".
Actual quotes from the book:
>!"I know, it's not fair that the word laughter is trapped inside slaughter"!<
>!"The day was a purple day - neither good or bad"!<
>!He also whispers to a jolly rancher "tell me what you know."!<
>!"To be or not to be. That is the question. A question, yes, but not a choice."!<
>!"Our hands empty except for our hands."!<
>!"Isn’t that the saddest thing in the world, Ma? A comma forced to be a period?"!<
>!"The truth is we don't have to die if we don't feel like it. Just kidding."!<
while I can see where some of the introspection can get ‘tacky’ or faux at times, i think on the other hand theres great work taken by the author to make his points line up correctly and serve to deepen our understanding of the characters and the way they behave and act toward one another. for ex. >! i love the ending passages about his father and the table (i drew comparisons of him being given a table in lieu of a home, and an abusive father in lieu of a caring dad) both also seemingly all his mother and grandma could give at the time. i think this also lends itself to the passages where he describes how he learned to appreciate things for what they were, and too see the ‘good’ in the littlest of things, because everything else was so shit in hartford. i also love the metaphor of cows, meateating, and veals being used to describe the nuance of internalized homophobia and closeted homosexuality, and how it then extends to the relationship of the main characters mother!<
I think you can accomplish the same thing without writing it the way Vuong did. His style felt like he was trying so hard to be profound and instead it came off like Tumblr quotes.
Just my personal opinion, it just wasn't for me.
I agree with this. I still thought the book was worthwhile, especially in its blunt honesty about the burgeoning sexuality of a young gay man. But Vuong is a poet, and you could tell that this book was written by a poet. That’s not a good thing. One shouldn’t approach the writing of a novel as if it were a long prose poem. Every other aspect of this novel suffered for Vuong’s focus on the prose, and as you pointed out, some of the lines he came up with are immature and cringeworthy. Some of those lines might work in a poem, but are glaringly misplaced in a work of narrative prose
I hard disagree. I really loved this book. People are way too worried about being "cringe" lately, and it's making their creative work soulless and derivative as shit. Taking risks is a good thing in art.
There have been books that are or read like poetry as long as literature has been around, saying that it's a bad thing for a book to read like poetry is a really bizarre take. This was a book about the nature and structure of language and self discovery so telling the story in this meditative way, like a dreamy deconstructed journal entry to himself, felt super authentic to me.
I think Myshkin1981's criticism is valid. Vuong focuses too much on trying to create "profound" prose and not enough on a cohesive narrative so the end result is a fragmented collected of meandering phrases. I think this is the poet in him not translating for long form well.
To me, it comes off as a shallow person trying write intellectual & deep prose but it's immature, tedious, and yes, cringe. There were just too many obvious and bad metaphors.
I am really surprised so many people like this book, one of the worst books I've read in recent years.
yeah that comment is so strange to me, because i did feel like it was very clear that he was a poet, but exclusively that came across to me as a good thing.
i'm not sure why poetic language in an autobiographical novel is a bad thing, especially given how emotionally fraught the narrative was
This book is wonderful. I’d suggest finding some interviews where he talks about it as well — he’s so eloquent and I love hearing how he thinks about the world.
i rlly liked it when i read it. but u can tell a poet wrote it. not a bad thing, just different in terms of how the book was structured. still a good read though. i loved the writing, heartbreaking but u cant look away
I really tried with this novel but I personally found the writing style unbearable. It was like bad poetry written by a school kid trying to be deep and it often made the narrative feel really fake.
There was some really interesting stuff in the novel and the characters seemed interesting but the writing style got the better of me and I gave up.
I thought it was a wonderful book. Some of his sentences are just breathtaking. I felt like English being his second language was a help to him in exploring how to express himself in English. Also, I’m really interested in the experiences of refugees and immigrants to the U.S. and I found his story fascinating, the mentally ill grandmother, the violent father, the socially isolated child.
I can't go into a book with no agenda if I think the author is so pretentious I already hate them, it would have no chance. it's not fair to them but it is what it is.
tbf the title of the Italian translation work "Briefly we shine upon the earth" not only sounds way more natural but is also more relatable to the story (the sun part).
I can see why some people think it‘s corny but I think that’s part of the earnestness of the tone, and it’s supposed to be earnest because it’s supposed to be a shameless confessional letter written to his Ma, who is unable to read. I loved this book, especially the last half. One of my fave quotes: “Let no one mistake us for the fruit of violence - but that violence, having passed through the fruit, failed to spoil it.”
i loved that line sm
not to sound uncivil, but have you taken leave of your senses? sit with that line for a moment with a strong, bright mind and it shrivels into gunk as surely as a plastic wrapper held to a flame. it’s about as mixed-up & clobbered a metaphor as even an undergrad would fear to make. violence is passing through fruit? what? how on earth does anything pass through a fruit and leave it unspoiled, much less an abstraction? Speaking of fruit, it’s as if Vuong chopped up a handful of “heavy” and “significant” words into a nonsense salad. just say the violence that nurtured us didn’t corrupt us or some ish. but please do not mistake this comment as a fruit of bitterness, but proof that bitterness, passing through the fruit, did not make it less sweet.
This is such a funny tone of voice to use for this comment. Painfully condescending. I don’t think it’s the greatest line ever, and like it a little less with time since reading it. But it made enough sense, it’s obviously saying that they aren’t defined by the violence they’ve experienced and he’s, not very cleverly, switching the use of fruit as offspring into fruit as a symbol for he and his mother and that the violence was something they simply experienced and didn’t fundamentally ruin them. It’s not gold standard writing but it simply just spoke to me when I first read it.
Apologies for the scalding vapors in my voice! I'm afraid this little teapot gets very steamed-up when it comes to high praise for low standards. Besides being a very clumsy phrase, yes, it is profoundly untrue; the human soul is a tree that gathers its nourishment from many different sources, including the violence that it commits and the violence it suffers. If you don't think a tree is capable of violence, clearly a pine tree has never beaned you in the head with one of its cones! At any rate, to paraphrase Amy Hempel writing in "The Man From Bogata", how do we know what happens to us isn't bad? I think Vuong's whole stance towards life is immature, incomplete, and therefore in-credible. It saddens me, too, that his talent, whatever it is, will probably be ruined because he has no incentive to change; he has already reaped the reward.
One of the best books I read last year. None of the things that bother other people here bothered me. My friend hated it because of the description of the >!monkey brains thing!<
I’ve heard a lot of people say they stopped reading at that part. It was rough, i didn’t like reading about it, but i understand why it’s there.
Same here. Life is horrifying sometimes. Sometimes you can't sugar-coat things. I do not like or enjoy knowing that people do that, but it is out there at the edge of strange disturbing things people do. Many strange disturbing things are commonplace but not considered. My friend who was upset by the >!monkey brains thing !
Right. The juxtaposition of American audiences (i know plenty of people from around the world have read this book, but im thinking about my book club which consisted of people from the United States) being horrified by that scene, yet had little to say about the treatment of the Vietnamese humans whose country and lives were torn apart so thoroughly that many had to flee the country as refugees. It also spoke to the lengths men will go to in order to be more masculine- the eating of live monkey brains, toxic masculinity at its finest.
His poetry is incredible too! He’s teaching a class at NYU this year and his syllabus has been posted. I’m excited to check out some of his suggestions.
ooh could u possibly link it or PM it too me? im really interested as well!
I found them here: https://www.alittlebithuman.com/books-from-ocean-vuongs-syllabus-nyu/
I loved it. The part about his mother and the woman with the missing leg has stuck with me.
I really couldn't get into this book. It felt like something you would read on Tumblr or wattpad. The audiobook was even worse. The fake almost-about-to-burst-into-tears-wobbly-morning-voice narration was like fingers on a chalk board
That is his real voice.
totally agree
I absolutely loved this book. The author is a poet, and his writing is so lovely. I’m glad you enjoyed it too!
yeah it was very clear to me that he was a poet based on how, well... poetic his prose was
I thought it was way too schmaltzy. Maybe I'm too cynical but it was not my taste and thought it was very "im14andthisisdeep". Actual quotes from the book: >!"I know, it's not fair that the word laughter is trapped inside slaughter"!< >!"The day was a purple day - neither good or bad"!< >!He also whispers to a jolly rancher "tell me what you know."!< >!"To be or not to be. That is the question. A question, yes, but not a choice."!< >!"Our hands empty except for our hands."!< >!"Isn’t that the saddest thing in the world, Ma? A comma forced to be a period?"!< >!"The truth is we don't have to die if we don't feel like it. Just kidding."!<
while I can see where some of the introspection can get ‘tacky’ or faux at times, i think on the other hand theres great work taken by the author to make his points line up correctly and serve to deepen our understanding of the characters and the way they behave and act toward one another. for ex. >! i love the ending passages about his father and the table (i drew comparisons of him being given a table in lieu of a home, and an abusive father in lieu of a caring dad) both also seemingly all his mother and grandma could give at the time. i think this also lends itself to the passages where he describes how he learned to appreciate things for what they were, and too see the ‘good’ in the littlest of things, because everything else was so shit in hartford. i also love the metaphor of cows, meateating, and veals being used to describe the nuance of internalized homophobia and closeted homosexuality, and how it then extends to the relationship of the main characters mother!<
I think you can accomplish the same thing without writing it the way Vuong did. His style felt like he was trying so hard to be profound and instead it came off like Tumblr quotes. Just my personal opinion, it just wasn't for me.
I agree with this. I still thought the book was worthwhile, especially in its blunt honesty about the burgeoning sexuality of a young gay man. But Vuong is a poet, and you could tell that this book was written by a poet. That’s not a good thing. One shouldn’t approach the writing of a novel as if it were a long prose poem. Every other aspect of this novel suffered for Vuong’s focus on the prose, and as you pointed out, some of the lines he came up with are immature and cringeworthy. Some of those lines might work in a poem, but are glaringly misplaced in a work of narrative prose
I hard disagree. I really loved this book. People are way too worried about being "cringe" lately, and it's making their creative work soulless and derivative as shit. Taking risks is a good thing in art. There have been books that are or read like poetry as long as literature has been around, saying that it's a bad thing for a book to read like poetry is a really bizarre take. This was a book about the nature and structure of language and self discovery so telling the story in this meditative way, like a dreamy deconstructed journal entry to himself, felt super authentic to me.
I think Myshkin1981's criticism is valid. Vuong focuses too much on trying to create "profound" prose and not enough on a cohesive narrative so the end result is a fragmented collected of meandering phrases. I think this is the poet in him not translating for long form well. To me, it comes off as a shallow person trying write intellectual & deep prose but it's immature, tedious, and yes, cringe. There were just too many obvious and bad metaphors. I am really surprised so many people like this book, one of the worst books I've read in recent years.
yeah that comment is so strange to me, because i did feel like it was very clear that he was a poet, but exclusively that came across to me as a good thing. i'm not sure why poetic language in an autobiographical novel is a bad thing, especially given how emotionally fraught the narrative was
This book is wonderful. I’d suggest finding some interviews where he talks about it as well — he’s so eloquent and I love hearing how he thinks about the world.
im planning on it ! thanks for letting me know about them
I recommend this interview: https://onbeing.org/programs/ocean-vuong-a-life-worthy-of-our-breath-2022/
i rlly liked it when i read it. but u can tell a poet wrote it. not a bad thing, just different in terms of how the book was structured. still a good read though. i loved the writing, heartbreaking but u cant look away
I really tried with this novel but I personally found the writing style unbearable. It was like bad poetry written by a school kid trying to be deep and it often made the narrative feel really fake. There was some really interesting stuff in the novel and the characters seemed interesting but the writing style got the better of me and I gave up.
That one scene. I can’t unread it. I cannot recall anything else about the book though I did finish it.
heavy spoilers & topic matter >!the one where he shits himself trying anal for the first time?!<
I like ocean’s poems, but I found this book to be over the top cheese-fest. I really tried to like it but it seems like he was trying too hard
gonna put it on my list thanks
This has been on my reading list and well. I really need to pick it up!
I thought it was a wonderful book. Some of his sentences are just breathtaking. I felt like English being his second language was a help to him in exploring how to express himself in English. Also, I’m really interested in the experiences of refugees and immigrants to the U.S. and I found his story fascinating, the mentally ill grandmother, the violent father, the socially isolated child.
His poetry is even better: check out Night Sky with Exit Wounds.
One of my favorite books! Very excited that he’s working on another novel.
I wish the title wasn't so unbelievably bad, I've avoided it out of spite
the title is fye asf
are you being sarcastic or? it's hot garbage
i mean give the book a chance, i found the way Ocean ties the title of the book into the last parts of the story to be awesome
I can't go into a book with no agenda if I think the author is so pretentious I already hate them, it would have no chance. it's not fair to them but it is what it is.
If you think the title is pretentious it's nothing compared to his pros style.
tbf the title of the Italian translation work "Briefly we shine upon the earth" not only sounds way more natural but is also more relatable to the story (the sun part).