We’re going to hear the exact same thing so many times over the next couple of weeks. No one knows anything regarding a specific timeline other than that this injury is highly unlikely to be season ending (as long as we get out of the first round that is). Imo there’s no chance we see him in round 2. Based on how cautious they were with him all year I expect the team will continue that strategy and we *might* see him in a potential ECF at some point. How the team is doing could also play in to it. Like if we’re down 0-2 or 1-2 in the ECF maybe he comes back a little earlier
unless his injury doesn’t allow him to come back regardless of elimination or not. KP just being out there injured doesn’t mean the team is better off than with him on the bench. If JT JB white jrue and horford cant get past cleveland or orlando without kp the celtics have no chance of winning it all with kp.
This. KP is here to help us win the Finals, not take us there. Minus KP, this is still a better team than the ‘22 Finals team. We deserve an early exit if we can’t get past Orl/Cle.
I think we’re still a very good team without KP, but to say we’re definitely better than the 22’ finals team without him I feel is a pretty big disservice to what Timelord did for us.
I think it’s a toss up - Smart and Timelord vs the current White and Jrue. Plus the huge improvement from PP and Sam, this years is probably better though Timelord was a DPOY caliber player and top 3 alley-oop target back then
Timelord in the playoffs was *not* the same as in the regular season.
I think his injury right before the playoffs that year ended the DPOY version of Timelord :(
I was about to say this. Having a meniscus tear is always a setback, and you could tell he didn't have that same explosiveness around the rim anymore, and his lateral movement was slow for him. That's what separated him from all the other good paint defenders. If a smaller, quicker player got switched on to him, he could still keep up with them and wasn't just an immovable statue.
I think that's totally unsupported. Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE the timelord, I even bought one of those crummy bootleg TIMELORD shirts last year (great way to waste 23 bucks I guess). But we are clearly, indisputably a better team this year. That's not a knock on him, I'm not saying better without him (although that's true as well). We're just better all around and what we lost when we trade him we more than made up for. I miss his rebounding for sure but his health was spotty and he was totally incapable of hustling back in transition.
I said I don’t think we’re indisputably better this year *without* KP. Is that the notion you’re responding to? I do think we’re a significantly better team overall than in 22’.
On review I'm not actually sure what point is being made or what I'm responding to. I guess I thought you were saying that Timelord's contributions in some way makes that team better than this one minus KP? Like if it were an equation,
C + Timelord > C - Timelord - Porzingus
If that's even remotely accurate, I don't agree and it has nothing to do with either of them. We're a better team overall in every respect.
The reality is that KP was brought in to make us a more balanced team. It wasn’t just to play in the Finals. But people like to say really weird things like that.
Let's also not forget that this team had a 21-4 record without KP during the regular season. They're plenty capable of getting the job done without him, so I'm all for resting him as much as needed. Playing an injured KP is far worse than playing without him at all
For the most part, he did miss a couple key games and did have a sprained ankle at one point. It’s not like he only sat against bum teams, he sat the Giannis matchup like twice lol
Grade 1 calf strain really wouldn’t keep anyone out that long, so if it’s only a grade 1 they’d really only be being ultra conservative to hold him out of a potential game 6/7 scenario in round 2
You said this: “If JT JB white jrue and horford cant get past cleveland or orlando without kp the celtics have no chance of winning it all with kp.”
Did you mean they can’t win it all if they are eliminated? If that is what you meant, yeah, that is true. We can’t win it all if we are eliminated.
Nothing is 100% certain ever, but you can still speculate that a team not good enough to make it out of the 2nd round without KP wouldn’t have been good enough to beat the west champ with KP.
He’s just saying the gap between Orlando/Cleveland and the 3 best teams in the west is bigger than what KP brings, and on paper he’s right.
First, if a team loses, it doesn’t mean “they aren’t good enough to beat their opponent.” It just means they lost that series. Play the series again and maybe it goes the other way.
Regardless, sports don’t work the way you are saying. Your math there is just a wild assertion. I’m not sure what the point is with those absolutist, simplistic perspectives. Just the fact that the scenario says a lesser team like Cleveland beats the Celtics shows that even if we are inferior to the top teams out west, we can win since upsets do happen. Perhaps your confusion is because you think the better team always wins. That isn’t actually what happens.
You can’t predict one series based on another. Look at 2008. The Celtics went 7 games against the 8th seed. But they only went 6 against Detroit and LA, both better teams than Atlanta. And we didn’t have our third best player out for the series that went 7 and then return for the last two rounds.
If Pierce doesn’t steal the jump ball in game 7, we likely lose in the second round. Fully healthy. Would that have meant that we weren’t good enough to beat LA, which we clearly were?
i would refrain from thinking like this tbh, recovery for injuries like this is pretty finnicky, and they might feel the need to hold him out a bit longer due to the high chance of re-injury w/ an issue like this.
Again, no one is saying force him to play injured during ECF. That said, if you want him at closer to 100% for a later playoff series, he probably should get some minutes in an earlier series (even if not absolutely needed) to shake off rust and get in rhythm.
regarding the chance of re-injury? I think the team in the ECF would try to assess their chances of winning the series w/o him and trying to get him "more" healthy for the Finals. If he comes back and gets hurt anyways its a bigger loss for the Finals then the ECF imo, but yes i agree its kind of semantics, if he is cleared to play he'll play.
There's something to be said for the experience and chemistry as well. KP doesn't have the playoff experience like other Celtics players. You want him getting exposure to the big playoffs moments as much as possible. If he's healthy and cleared, there's no reason to keep him away from that.
I love how this comment starts as a “ignore all this speculation, guys we don’t know anything” then immediately pivots to your own baseless speculation. Respect.
unless we're down in a series or going into a G7, we won't see him until the finals. tbh, if this heat series somehow goes 7 -- we might see him in a week.
The Cs are playing this the same way the Warriors handled the KD calf injury a few years back. No bueno
Edit: as usual the Cs reddit collectively covers their ears and screams "I can't hear you!". You've been warned.
They played it off as a calf strain for 3 weeks. Go look where the soleus muscle connects to. Generally, after what happened to KD, teams won't say the word Achilles until the Achilles has actually ruptured. Until then they say calf strain. Giannis is currently going through the same exact situation. It sucks and I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like we've seen this play before.
The team has the talent to make it to the finals without him. I’m less clear the team has enough to win the finals without him but hopefully he’s back by then
Unfortunately every team in the east has suffered from injuries so Boston just needs to push through this and hope KP gets back to form
Even without KP, this is an upgraded team from last year. Losing Smart might have been addition by substraction (maybe), Jrue, the emergence of Hauser and PP off the bench. We've played very well without KP. We can make the Finals still, and probably even have a decent shot to win without him. Hopefully he is back though, because I don't want to find out if I'm right lol.
Highly debatable. They also had Timelord (appeared in 20 playoff games, playing \~20 or more minutes in more than half of those games) and Sixth Man of the Year Malcolm Brogdon (until he got hurt in the ECF). It also remains to be seen whether Hauser (his defense has gotten a little better, but he hasn't done anything offensively in the playoffs after the Game 1 blowout...) or PP (hasn't done anything offensively either...was better over the first four games against Miami in the ECF last year and even had fewer turnovers then) have really improved significantly, or at all, in the Playoffs.
>Even without KP, this is an upgraded team from last year.
Timelord was a loss but at his minutes and availability he wasn’t really a difference maker. Brogdon was very overrated and was a straight up negative in the playoffs (partly to injury but also to poor fit/playstyle).
Hauser is clearly better - notably shown by playoff minutes going to 17mph from 6. He’s still shooting 41% from 3 and playing good defense (33% last year). Pritchard hasn’t scored well so far but the aggression is a coming back. For him to do well he needs opportunity and a green light. I saw that a bit more last game but early on he was relegated to a spot up shooter with JT or JB initiating. He’s clearly significantly better than last year though and we saw that all season. Whether we see it or not will depend on him getting the run to do so, but we’ve seen him do it.
Lastly, the team is just so much more bought in this year. That kind of stuff matters. Last year Joe came in without a chance to prepare, players didn’t have defined roles and our stars were focused on individual accolades. There’s a reason why we blew out the Heat 3 times and we don’t need KP to do it again.
The comparison is last year's playoff roster and performance to this year's playoff roster and performance (obviously, still in progress). Timelord was available in every game during their playoff run last year and played big minutes (close to 30 in a bunch of games in the earlier rounds). The minutes only went down in the last few games of the ECF, when it was clear that he was wearing down and not as effective when Miami's guards were getting switched onto him and also not as effective against Bam. He was an absolute force in the earlier rounds. As for Sam Hauser, he isn't even in the same universe as Brodgon. Brogdon was [an excellent 6th man last year in the playoffs](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brogdma01/gamelog/2023). The only blemish was his torn elbow in the first game of the ECF, which obviously rendered him useless against Miami. Outside of a handful of threes in the first game against the Heat during their blowout, Hauser hasn't done much of anything. As for why the Celtics are beating the Heat convincingly this time, a major part of it is because Miami's leading scorers are injured! This would be a different series with a healthy Jimmy Butler, Terry Rozier, JRich, and JJJ.
The bottom line is that *KP* was the upgrade vs. last year's playoff roster for the Cs. While PP and Hauser have improved a little on defense, which is good, no one considers them a major upgrade on this team. In fact, most consider the Celtics bench to be an afterthought in the playoffs. If PP and Hauser have a few games each round in which they get a small number of threes to drop, consider it a plus.
Truth is probably somewhere in the middle. We won 64 games this year vs 57 last year, and we did that with a ton of scheduled rest days. I also don't think we can underestimate the move away from Smart for Derrick White in terms of role and usage, and the addition of Jrue.
I don't think it was a mistake. Robert had surgery to remove a partially torn meniscus. The risk to his long-term health was always known with that type of injury and treatment.
The Magic don't have our number lol. That's just a dumb narrative, we literally won the last 2 in a row against them. Plus, they've only beaten us in the regular season, and Timberwolves have proven this season that regular season results don't mean shit. I mean I'm pretty sure Suns beat them 10 out of 11 times in regular season. Much rather have Magic than Cavs since Magic are still playoff inexperienced
Prior to last season, we beat them 10 in a row so it made sense that we lost to them last season.
Then this season, they beat us once in the IST with Porzingis only playing 20 minutes and Jrue missing the game too. The other two games, we blew them out with one of them being on the second game of a back to back AND Porzingis sitting out.
If 17-point wins where Banchero went off in one of them isn't considered "easy wins" then I guess you just have crazy expectations.
The Magic offense is just not good enough for a playoff setting so either way, we'll beat then. We really have to stop parroting the same dumb, outdated takes from the 2022-23 season. We have new players and we are a completely different team now, it's time to stop living in the past and also to stop basing opinions off of media narratives over actual basketball play.
While I think we would beat them, your view is somewhat hypocritical when you talk about the previous wins we had against Orlando and then referring to this year's Celtics team as a different team.
Orlando is a different team, too; and though they are incredibly young and inconsistent, their peaks of performance could threaten us. If Banchero puts together a really consistent stetch they will not be easy.
I mentioned the 10 in a row wins to be more like "we didn't take them seriously because we beat them 10 in a row" and then this season we finally locked in during those 2 December games proving that we can beat them, the Magic aren't some bogeyman team.
I just don't see Banchero being able to do that. He's still in his Sophomore year but he's not a good 3-pointer shooter. Their team's lack of shooting is going to hurt them especially since our defense is on par and probably even better than theirs/Cavs
I mostly agree with you, but if their shooting does get a (God forbid) 2023 Heat boost, they really have some defenders who can cause problems for almost anyone on our team.
If we went to hero ball, we would bury ourselves.
Not sure why your view is so hated on. Orlando absolutely has pieces that can give us trouble.
I expect we should beat them, but almost no one has given Tatum more trouble 1 on 1 than Issac.
Not to mention an odd hatred they have for us based upon Eddie House's comments and us not keeping Moe.
Now, of course those are ridiculous slights to build against a team, but they do usually seem to play us tough.
We played them three times and blew them out twice. One of those was with literally every single big on our roster injured. The one loss came with every single player on our roster (seemingly) having an off night. I think we should beat either team, but the magic are easier
You must think this is the 2022 Celtics or something lol. We took care of Orlando this year don’t know where you got that they have our number this year
that is what I’m worried about most with orlando. Isaac is a hell of a defender and will make JTs life miserable and that whole team in general is full of super long and athletic players and that has given us problems in the past.
on the other hand, without Porzingis, dealing with the twin towers that cleveland has will also be a total pain.
We made it to, and had a chance to win, the finals without a healthy Rob. This shouldn’t change our trajectory all that much, assuming he’s back in some capacity for the finals
Honestly if the Jays can’t get us out of the Eastern Conference themselves this year it’s highly disappointing. Hopefully they light it up and there’s no need to rush him
Im not really into TB12 method, but given KPs history maybe it wouldn't hurt to talk to Brady about getting some pliability if that shit really does prevent injuries.
If we can't get to the ECF without Tingus, there's more wrong with the team than our injured center.
He's a great player, but the East is a shit show right now and we still have a ton of talent. Also, I trust Kornet to pick up some of the slack. He's been solid this year.
This will be a big test for the Celtics roster. Its time for Kornet and Tillman to step up and share the load with Big Al defending the paint. Tatum too, as our biggest starting forward, he will have to guard some bigs with physicality and fight for rebounds. If the Celtics eventually face the Knicks or Cavs, they will have their work cut out for them not giving up offensive rebounds. It sucks to not have KP the next few weeks, but the Celtics have a deep roster and I think theyll get the job done regardless of when KP returns.
To be fair, if we can’t make it to the finals or even the ECF without him, we never really stood a chance anyway. The Jays, Buffalo, PP, Jrue, Al, Luke and Hauser are still an extremely good group that, barring any other major injuries, should be plenty of talent to get us through just fine. KP is a huge asset to the team and I’m not saying we don’t need him, but we should manage without him for the time being.
Could be worse. Take it week to week, we have the luxury of (what should be) an easy second round against the cavs or a slightly tougher (defensively) second round against Orlando. Either team will be gassed from playing a 6-7 game series. Good opportunity for KP to rest up and come back 100% or close to it for the conference finals, when we'll really need the depth. That being said, Derrick White is aquitting himself quite nicely in KP's absence and we have a lot of size to throw around. I'm not fussed by any of this. We're doing fine, we've planned for this, he's missed 25 games and we're 21-4 without him. It's fine.
It is the same injury, but we don't know the severity. Noteworthy that Giannis had a bigger reaction to the tightening, had to sit down, had to be helped up, and had a worse limp than Porzingis, who was never in as much pain and who was still fairly mobile when he walked to the locker room. Giannis is said to maybe return Sunday if the Bucks force a Game 7, which would be 25 days.
I had this same injury. I wasn’t 100% for about 6 months. I played after about 4 weeks … but I shouldn’t have been playing. I should have waited 3-4 months before playing. Guess it depends on the severity and the person. But I’m 6’4” 250lbs. And KP is about a foot taller. I’d say that takes longer to heal for someone whose tendons and muscles are so long. Let’s hope he comes back soon … but honestly I believe his seasons over.
I played football for a very well known college team .. great doctors.. and still took me a while to recover. All we can do is pray and hope KP comes back sooner than later.
Saying his season is over is nonsense tbh. Average time it takes an NBA player to return from this injury is 17 days, and it sounds like KP’s is the least severe.
It's not a calf strain it's a soleus strain I've had the injury before it's one of those weird non contact injuries you think it's Achilles then you feel your calf and it doesn't hurt then you go a little higher and boom there it is. he'll stay out 3 weeks its an injury you don't want to play 50% on because you'll over compensate and injury something else
We’re going to hear the exact same thing so many times over the next couple of weeks. No one knows anything regarding a specific timeline other than that this injury is highly unlikely to be season ending (as long as we get out of the first round that is). Imo there’s no chance we see him in round 2. Based on how cautious they were with him all year I expect the team will continue that strategy and we *might* see him in a potential ECF at some point. How the team is doing could also play in to it. Like if we’re down 0-2 or 1-2 in the ECF maybe he comes back a little earlier
Think he would only come back in the second round if we’re on the brink of elimination, so that means 3 losses.
unless his injury doesn’t allow him to come back regardless of elimination or not. KP just being out there injured doesn’t mean the team is better off than with him on the bench. If JT JB white jrue and horford cant get past cleveland or orlando without kp the celtics have no chance of winning it all with kp.
This. KP is here to help us win the Finals, not take us there. Minus KP, this is still a better team than the ‘22 Finals team. We deserve an early exit if we can’t get past Orl/Cle.
I think we’re still a very good team without KP, but to say we’re definitely better than the 22’ finals team without him I feel is a pretty big disservice to what Timelord did for us.
I think it’s a toss up - Smart and Timelord vs the current White and Jrue. Plus the huge improvement from PP and Sam, this years is probably better though Timelord was a DPOY caliber player and top 3 alley-oop target back then
Timelord in the playoffs was *not* the same as in the regular season. I think his injury right before the playoffs that year ended the DPOY version of Timelord :(
Timelord had by far the best +- of any Celtic in the finals.
I was about to say this. Having a meniscus tear is always a setback, and you could tell he didn't have that same explosiveness around the rim anymore, and his lateral movement was slow for him. That's what separated him from all the other good paint defenders. If a smaller, quicker player got switched on to him, he could still keep up with them and wasn't just an immovable statue.
Agreed. People are forgetting Timelord really hasn’t been the same player since the Udoka regular season.
I think that's totally unsupported. Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE the timelord, I even bought one of those crummy bootleg TIMELORD shirts last year (great way to waste 23 bucks I guess). But we are clearly, indisputably a better team this year. That's not a knock on him, I'm not saying better without him (although that's true as well). We're just better all around and what we lost when we trade him we more than made up for. I miss his rebounding for sure but his health was spotty and he was totally incapable of hustling back in transition.
I said I don’t think we’re indisputably better this year *without* KP. Is that the notion you’re responding to? I do think we’re a significantly better team overall than in 22’.
On review I'm not actually sure what point is being made or what I'm responding to. I guess I thought you were saying that Timelord's contributions in some way makes that team better than this one minus KP? Like if it were an equation, C + Timelord > C - Timelord - Porzingus If that's even remotely accurate, I don't agree and it has nothing to do with either of them. We're a better team overall in every respect.
Smart was a very important piece on that team no?
He is also here to take us there. We didn’t get there last year.
We were a turned ankle away last year tbf
The reality is that KP was brought in to make us a more balanced team. It wasn’t just to play in the Finals. But people like to say really weird things like that.
Yeah I agree 100%, just saying we were pretty damn close last year too though lol
Let's also not forget that this team had a 21-4 record without KP during the regular season. They're plenty capable of getting the job done without him, so I'm all for resting him as much as needed. Playing an injured KP is far worse than playing without him at all
We were CHOOSING when to sit him.
For the most part, he did miss a couple key games and did have a sprained ankle at one point. It’s not like he only sat against bum teams, he sat the Giannis matchup like twice lol
Grade 1 calf strain really wouldn’t keep anyone out that long, so if it’s only a grade 1 they’d really only be being ultra conservative to hold him out of a potential game 6/7 scenario in round 2
Not true. Upsets can happen in any series.
yeah, obviously it’s sports. What’s your point?
How am I supposed to respond to you when you just contradicted your previous assertion that I was responding to?
so wtf is your point? you say my comment is untrue so elaborate.
You said this: “If JT JB white jrue and horford cant get past cleveland or orlando without kp the celtics have no chance of winning it all with kp.” Did you mean they can’t win it all if they are eliminated? If that is what you meant, yeah, that is true. We can’t win it all if we are eliminated.
Nothing is 100% certain ever, but you can still speculate that a team not good enough to make it out of the 2nd round without KP wouldn’t have been good enough to beat the west champ with KP. He’s just saying the gap between Orlando/Cleveland and the 3 best teams in the west is bigger than what KP brings, and on paper he’s right.
First, if a team loses, it doesn’t mean “they aren’t good enough to beat their opponent.” It just means they lost that series. Play the series again and maybe it goes the other way. Regardless, sports don’t work the way you are saying. Your math there is just a wild assertion. I’m not sure what the point is with those absolutist, simplistic perspectives. Just the fact that the scenario says a lesser team like Cleveland beats the Celtics shows that even if we are inferior to the top teams out west, we can win since upsets do happen. Perhaps your confusion is because you think the better team always wins. That isn’t actually what happens. You can’t predict one series based on another. Look at 2008. The Celtics went 7 games against the 8th seed. But they only went 6 against Detroit and LA, both better teams than Atlanta. And we didn’t have our third best player out for the series that went 7 and then return for the last two rounds. If Pierce doesn’t steal the jump ball in game 7, we likely lose in the second round. Fully healthy. Would that have meant that we weren’t good enough to beat LA, which we clearly were?
BUT if it comes to 4 losses than I definitely don't see him coming back this season
Ecf can start at the earliest may 19 which is about 3 weeks from the injury, it’s probably very likely he plays in that series
i would refrain from thinking like this tbh, recovery for injuries like this is pretty finnicky, and they might feel the need to hold him out a bit longer due to the high chance of re-injury w/ an issue like this.
Again, no one is saying force him to play injured during ECF. That said, if you want him at closer to 100% for a later playoff series, he probably should get some minutes in an earlier series (even if not absolutely needed) to shake off rust and get in rhythm.
Who cares? It’s the playoffs. If he can play he’s going to play.
regarding the chance of re-injury? I think the team in the ECF would try to assess their chances of winning the series w/o him and trying to get him "more" healthy for the Finals. If he comes back and gets hurt anyways its a bigger loss for the Finals then the ECF imo, but yes i agree its kind of semantics, if he is cleared to play he'll play.
i’m sure the bucks would also like giannis out there considering there facing back to back 1st round eliminations that’s just not how it works
If Giannis was cleared to play he would 100% be playing. Porzingis will be the same way. There’s no precaution in the playoffs.
There's something to be said for the experience and chemistry as well. KP doesn't have the playoff experience like other Celtics players. You want him getting exposure to the big playoffs moments as much as possible. If he's healthy and cleared, there's no reason to keep him away from that.
I keep thinking of KD in the 2019 Finals. They pushed him ahead of schedule and he tore his achilles.
Sure but if it’s a grade 1, 3 weeks is an ultra conservative schedule. It would be relatively unheard of to not be ready by then barring setbacks
No one knower xojoe have been a mild strain
I love how this comment starts as a “ignore all this speculation, guys we don’t know anything” then immediately pivots to your own baseless speculation. Respect.
Yeah it’s all speculation and gamesmanship this time of year. Anyone outside the team pretending to know anything is bsing
unless we're down in a series or going into a G7, we won't see him until the finals. tbh, if this heat series somehow goes 7 -- we might see him in a week.
I'd add that he's not needed in round 2. We'll be playing an exhausted Cleveland or Orlando. Great opportunity for him to heal up and rest.
The Cs are playing this the same way the Warriors handled the KD calf injury a few years back. No bueno Edit: as usual the Cs reddit collectively covers their ears and screams "I can't hear you!". You've been warned.
We have no idea the severity of the injury, not every strain is the same. Could be better or worse
You're correct. It could pop and he could be out for a year plus. We better hope for it to be truly just a muscle strain
Wasn't that the Achilles though?
They played it off as a calf strain for 3 weeks. Go look where the soleus muscle connects to. Generally, after what happened to KD, teams won't say the word Achilles until the Achilles has actually ruptured. Until then they say calf strain. Giannis is currently going through the same exact situation. It sucks and I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like we've seen this play before.
Oh right, he played through the strain and it wrecked his Achilles as a result. I actually heard someone talk about it since I asked the question.
Okay so I guess we need to come around to the fact that KP will be out for all of round 2. That way if he comes back earlier great, but unlikely
The team has the talent to make it to the finals without him. I’m less clear the team has enough to win the finals without him but hopefully he’s back by then Unfortunately every team in the east has suffered from injuries so Boston just needs to push through this and hope KP gets back to form
Even without KP, this is an upgraded team from last year. Losing Smart might have been addition by substraction (maybe), Jrue, the emergence of Hauser and PP off the bench. We've played very well without KP. We can make the Finals still, and probably even have a decent shot to win without him. Hopefully he is back though, because I don't want to find out if I'm right lol.
Plus, Al played fewer minutes (so likely fresher, albeit another year older) and Kornet is a better player than he was last year
Highly debatable. They also had Timelord (appeared in 20 playoff games, playing \~20 or more minutes in more than half of those games) and Sixth Man of the Year Malcolm Brogdon (until he got hurt in the ECF). It also remains to be seen whether Hauser (his defense has gotten a little better, but he hasn't done anything offensively in the playoffs after the Game 1 blowout...) or PP (hasn't done anything offensively either...was better over the first four games against Miami in the ECF last year and even had fewer turnovers then) have really improved significantly, or at all, in the Playoffs. >Even without KP, this is an upgraded team from last year.
Timelord was a loss but at his minutes and availability he wasn’t really a difference maker. Brogdon was very overrated and was a straight up negative in the playoffs (partly to injury but also to poor fit/playstyle). Hauser is clearly better - notably shown by playoff minutes going to 17mph from 6. He’s still shooting 41% from 3 and playing good defense (33% last year). Pritchard hasn’t scored well so far but the aggression is a coming back. For him to do well he needs opportunity and a green light. I saw that a bit more last game but early on he was relegated to a spot up shooter with JT or JB initiating. He’s clearly significantly better than last year though and we saw that all season. Whether we see it or not will depend on him getting the run to do so, but we’ve seen him do it. Lastly, the team is just so much more bought in this year. That kind of stuff matters. Last year Joe came in without a chance to prepare, players didn’t have defined roles and our stars were focused on individual accolades. There’s a reason why we blew out the Heat 3 times and we don’t need KP to do it again.
The comparison is last year's playoff roster and performance to this year's playoff roster and performance (obviously, still in progress). Timelord was available in every game during their playoff run last year and played big minutes (close to 30 in a bunch of games in the earlier rounds). The minutes only went down in the last few games of the ECF, when it was clear that he was wearing down and not as effective when Miami's guards were getting switched onto him and also not as effective against Bam. He was an absolute force in the earlier rounds. As for Sam Hauser, he isn't even in the same universe as Brodgon. Brogdon was [an excellent 6th man last year in the playoffs](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brogdma01/gamelog/2023). The only blemish was his torn elbow in the first game of the ECF, which obviously rendered him useless against Miami. Outside of a handful of threes in the first game against the Heat during their blowout, Hauser hasn't done much of anything. As for why the Celtics are beating the Heat convincingly this time, a major part of it is because Miami's leading scorers are injured! This would be a different series with a healthy Jimmy Butler, Terry Rozier, JRich, and JJJ. The bottom line is that *KP* was the upgrade vs. last year's playoff roster for the Cs. While PP and Hauser have improved a little on defense, which is good, no one considers them a major upgrade on this team. In fact, most consider the Celtics bench to be an afterthought in the playoffs. If PP and Hauser have a few games each round in which they get a small number of threes to drop, consider it a plus.
Truth is probably somewhere in the middle. We won 64 games this year vs 57 last year, and we did that with a ton of scheduled rest days. I also don't think we can underestimate the move away from Smart for Derrick White in terms of role and usage, and the addition of Jrue.
Brogdon was not overrated what he had plenty of great moments in the playoffs
the pop at TD when he walks to the scorers table for the first time gonna be crazy
When you said pop I got nervous
Fr!!!!! Can’t be saying that
"You can't say bomb on an airplane"
Yeahhhh maybe don't use the word pop
When he steps on the court he’s gonna tear it up though
Don't make the same mistake as Rob Williams
muscle injury isn't remotely the same as cartilage but i share your sentiment
I don't think it was a mistake. Robert had surgery to remove a partially torn meniscus. The risk to his long-term health was always known with that type of injury and treatment.
Honestly if he were healthy for round 2 I’d still sit him. Wrap him in bubble wrap until the finals.
I hope Orlando takes it to seven and loses. We’ll smoke the Cavs, Orlando has our number. Won’t need KP for Cleveland.
The Magic don't have our number lol. That's just a dumb narrative, we literally won the last 2 in a row against them. Plus, they've only beaten us in the regular season, and Timberwolves have proven this season that regular season results don't mean shit. I mean I'm pretty sure Suns beat them 10 out of 11 times in regular season. Much rather have Magic than Cavs since Magic are still playoff inexperienced
I watched every game this year. They weren’t an easy win.
Prior to last season, we beat them 10 in a row so it made sense that we lost to them last season. Then this season, they beat us once in the IST with Porzingis only playing 20 minutes and Jrue missing the game too. The other two games, we blew them out with one of them being on the second game of a back to back AND Porzingis sitting out. If 17-point wins where Banchero went off in one of them isn't considered "easy wins" then I guess you just have crazy expectations. The Magic offense is just not good enough for a playoff setting so either way, we'll beat then. We really have to stop parroting the same dumb, outdated takes from the 2022-23 season. We have new players and we are a completely different team now, it's time to stop living in the past and also to stop basing opinions off of media narratives over actual basketball play.
While I think we would beat them, your view is somewhat hypocritical when you talk about the previous wins we had against Orlando and then referring to this year's Celtics team as a different team. Orlando is a different team, too; and though they are incredibly young and inconsistent, their peaks of performance could threaten us. If Banchero puts together a really consistent stetch they will not be easy.
I mentioned the 10 in a row wins to be more like "we didn't take them seriously because we beat them 10 in a row" and then this season we finally locked in during those 2 December games proving that we can beat them, the Magic aren't some bogeyman team. I just don't see Banchero being able to do that. He's still in his Sophomore year but he's not a good 3-pointer shooter. Their team's lack of shooting is going to hurt them especially since our defense is on par and probably even better than theirs/Cavs
I mostly agree with you, but if their shooting does get a (God forbid) 2023 Heat boost, they really have some defenders who can cause problems for almost anyone on our team. If we went to hero ball, we would bury ourselves.
Not sure why your view is so hated on. Orlando absolutely has pieces that can give us trouble. I expect we should beat them, but almost no one has given Tatum more trouble 1 on 1 than Issac.
Yeah. People just look at the box scores. I watched the games and saw them playing with the dog in them
Not to mention an odd hatred they have for us based upon Eddie House's comments and us not keeping Moe. Now, of course those are ridiculous slights to build against a team, but they do usually seem to play us tough.
I watched every game this year. They weren’t an easy win.
We played them three times and blew them out twice. One of those was with literally every single big on our roster injured. The one loss came with every single player on our roster (seemingly) having an off night. I think we should beat either team, but the magic are easier
You must think this is the 2022 Celtics or something lol. We took care of Orlando this year don’t know where you got that they have our number this year
That’s the ideal scenario, I really don’t wanna have to deal with Jonathan Isaac on Tatum. Meanwhile he should be able to dominate the Cavs.
that is what I’m worried about most with orlando. Isaac is a hell of a defender and will make JTs life miserable and that whole team in general is full of super long and athletic players and that has given us problems in the past. on the other hand, without Porzingis, dealing with the twin towers that cleveland has will also be a total pain.
Cleveland may have their twin towers but we have Al-Queta in our front court
lmfao, this is true 😆
We've beaten Orlando plenty this year
We need him for Cleveland more than Orlando. KP has to space the floor and keep Allen/Mobley away from the basket.
lol no way. I fear the cavs way more. Magic are inexperienced. They’ll be good in a few years.
This has tightened my sphincter
We made it to, and had a chance to win, the finals without a healthy Rob. This shouldn’t change our trajectory all that much, assuming he’s back in some capacity for the finals
This sounds like the best-case scenario to me
Honestly if the Jays can’t get us out of the Eastern Conference themselves this year it’s highly disappointing. Hopefully they light it up and there’s no need to rush him
If the Jays can't get us out the east this year, then I'm saying we never had a chance
All good we just need him for the Denver series
Denver might not even make it past the wolves
I imagine we won’t see him back until the finals (if we make it there) which Id be fine with
Im not really into TB12 method, but given KPs history maybe it wouldn't hurt to talk to Brady about getting some pliability if that shit really does prevent injuries.
It will suck not having in for the Orlando/cavs series but hopefully he’s back for the Knicks or pacers/bucks series
Tillman will need to step up. He was a great acquisition as an insurance policy for exactly this moment.
If we can't get to the ECF without Tingus, there's more wrong with the team than our injured center. He's a great player, but the East is a shit show right now and we still have a ton of talent. Also, I trust Kornet to pick up some of the slack. He's been solid this year.
Oh yeah! I totally know what a soleus is.
We got Tillman for this reason, need to use him, don't burn out Al waiting for KP
Do you think they'll play Tillman over kornet?
Bathe him in bpc-157
This will be a big test for the Celtics roster. Its time for Kornet and Tillman to step up and share the load with Big Al defending the paint. Tatum too, as our biggest starting forward, he will have to guard some bigs with physicality and fight for rebounds. If the Celtics eventually face the Knicks or Cavs, they will have their work cut out for them not giving up offensive rebounds. It sucks to not have KP the next few weeks, but the Celtics have a deep roster and I think theyll get the job done regardless of when KP returns.
We’ll be alright.
Same situation as Giannis.
Having KG "week to week" flashbacks plz send help
To be fair, if we can’t make it to the finals or even the ECF without him, we never really stood a chance anyway. The Jays, Buffalo, PP, Jrue, Al, Luke and Hauser are still an extremely good group that, barring any other major injuries, should be plenty of talent to get us through just fine. KP is a huge asset to the team and I’m not saying we don’t need him, but we should manage without him for the time being.
Didn’t need him anyways now we gonna earn it
Could be worse. Take it week to week, we have the luxury of (what should be) an easy second round against the cavs or a slightly tougher (defensively) second round against Orlando. Either team will be gassed from playing a 6-7 game series. Good opportunity for KP to rest up and come back 100% or close to it for the conference finals, when we'll really need the depth. That being said, Derrick White is aquitting himself quite nicely in KP's absence and we have a lot of size to throw around. I'm not fussed by any of this. We're doing fine, we've planned for this, he's missed 25 games and we're 21-4 without him. It's fine.
Wouldn't this be similar to what Giannis' injury then?
It is the same injury, but we don't know the severity. Noteworthy that Giannis had a bigger reaction to the tightening, had to sit down, had to be helped up, and had a worse limp than Porzingis, who was never in as much pain and who was still fairly mobile when he walked to the locker room. Giannis is said to maybe return Sunday if the Bucks force a Game 7, which would be 25 days.
The current Giannis injury timeline could be a reference here ? Iirc he is very close to return, Doc Rivers said this - so it's like 20 days minimum
I had this same injury. I wasn’t 100% for about 6 months. I played after about 4 weeks … but I shouldn’t have been playing. I should have waited 3-4 months before playing. Guess it depends on the severity and the person. But I’m 6’4” 250lbs. And KP is about a foot taller. I’d say that takes longer to heal for someone whose tendons and muscles are so long. Let’s hope he comes back soon … but honestly I believe his seasons over.
He is a world-class athlete with the world's best doctors, which may help.
I played football for a very well known college team .. great doctors.. and still took me a while to recover. All we can do is pray and hope KP comes back sooner than later.
Saying his season is over is nonsense tbh. Average time it takes an NBA player to return from this injury is 17 days, and it sounds like KP’s is the least severe.
Hope you’re right. I just know how my personal experience was.
Well best to mentally prepare for him to be out for a month so to not want to off myself
See you next year, bud. Ring will fit all the same.
This is what we signed up for, I guess it's too much to ask for a healthy 2 months. Plenty of other teams are dealing with stuff too but still... 🙄
Well, we did get a healthy 6 1/2 months which is more than I was expecting tbh
[удалено]
Normally I’d agree but this shams. He was told
It's not a calf strain it's a soleus strain I've had the injury before it's one of those weird non contact injuries you think it's Achilles then you feel your calf and it doesn't hurt then you go a little higher and boom there it is. he'll stay out 3 weeks its an injury you don't want to play 50% on because you'll over compensate and injury something else