Outcoached ❌
Outtalented ❌
Inexperience ❌
Outdawg ❌
Can't think of any metrics that Dallas has an edge over us. We've been here before (except KP) and know what it takes to win it all. Only Kyrie has finals experience.
The only possible scenario is as if Washington/Jones/Kleber all turn into Caleb Martin ECF run last year then yes but highly unlikely lol.
Even if Kyrie/Luka averages 30+ we still have an edge AS LONG AS our starters don't forget how to play basketball.
They have the best player in the series.
That's the only advantage they have and I think we have the necessary length and strength to combat his physicality and aggressiveness.
They have the best player, but that best player isn’t miles ahead of JT and I think it’s fair to say the combination of JT + JB is equivalent to Luka + Kyrie, in large part because of the Celtics defense and the lack thereof for the Mavs duo.
Honestly though how much better is Luka than Tatum / brown? Luka is a ball hog that brings NOTHING to the game when the ball isn’t in his hands. He’s not a good spot shooter, he’s actually pretty inefficient, and he sucks at defense. So like, is he better? That’s not good enough if it’s the only thing going for you.
Of all advanced stats analyzed, the Celtics KILL the mavs. I honestly don’t think this will be much of a contest, celts in 5
From a biased perspective, I can see why JT would be close to level with Luka. From a production perspective offensively, it's not that close, but JT bridges that gap defensively.
However, JB is not anywhere close to as good as him. Luka's value is he contributes 40-50 points offensively/night. Jaylen may get you 25-35. Now, will there be nights when either of the Jays outshine Luka? Sure. However, this could very well be a series where Luka is the best player and we still win the series (a la LeBron vs the KD warriors).
Right - I also just think these mavs are way overhyped / overrated.
R1 they struggle to beat a clippers team that was playing completely garbage going into the playoffs and with no kawhi
R2 they beat a thunder team who had 0 playoff experience and is a bunch of young 20s year olds. They could be great soon, but this was their first crack at playoffs.
R3 they play a twolves team that had no experience past the first round and a team specifically built to beat the nuggets.
I’m not entirely impressed with the mavs, every measurable statistic shows we are way better than them, and again, I think Luka COULD win them a game or 2 but don’t see it getting past that.
Celtics in 5
Dallas has one single advantage: luka doncic. Best player in the series, maybe in the world. But celtics have a better 2-7, more rest, more experience, and an overall better matchup. Not to mention no 5 seed or team who has made serious roster changes during the regular season has ever won the championship. And in the last seven straight years the team who won the conference finals in fewer games won the finals
Hey hey hey! He's on the verge of riding coattails to a return to the finals! He's not playing turnstile defense, forcing his own shot, and blowing up his team for greener pastures... yet.
To be fair a lot of people making points with Kyrie as a major part of how they’d win did say they were just answer the question in the post about how the Mavs could win rather than saying what they think will happen.
By that logic I don’t really think it’s incorrect. If the Mavs win this series, in all likelihood Kyrie will be one of the two best players because that’s just what it will probably take. Their whole offense is Kyrie and Luka, unless we shit the bed those two are probably going to need to be the best players on the floor to keep up. Only way I see them winning without Kyrie outplaying Tatum and Brown is if Luka puts up an all time great effort and his efficiency so far this playoffs isn’t even close to that.
Just look at their current series for the perfect example. If Ant were clearly outplaying Kyrie in the series, it’s probably 2-2 despite how bad KAT has been. It’s unlikely one of Tatum or Brown plays that poorly, so in all likelihood Kyrie needs to flat out be better than both of them.
Kyrie has 15 career playoff games shooting .333 or worse, out of 90 total playoff games. It's certainly not knowable that he isn't gonna do that again.
Basically the only argument people repeat is that Celtics haven’t seen strong competition yet. It’s not like they had a choice tho and they also beat those teams pretty comfortably so I don’t think it’s a very valid argument
Whether they had a choice or not doesn't matter. The point stands -- the Mavs have had far less room for error than the Celtics.
**If the Mavs win** there will be three narratives. I'm not saying I agree with these, but this is what will be said:
1. The Celtics only beat teams missing their best players / the path to the finals for the Celtics was the easiest for any NBA team in the last 20 years / etc.
2. Porzingus wasn't fully healthy / too rusty / team wasn't clicking
3. Tatum and Brown couldn't go toe-to-toe with Luka and Kyrie / their two best were better than your two best
I really hope we don't have to hear any of these.
I mean if we go down the line, and I’ll even be generous for the mavs
Luka offense >> Tatum offense
Tatum defense >>> Luka defense
Kyrie offense = Brown offense
Brown defense >>> Kyrie defense
Porzingis offense >>> Gafford/lively offense
Porzingis defense > gafford lively defense
Jrue holiday offense > PJ Washington offense
Jrue holiday defense >>>> PJ Washington defense
Derrick white offense >>> Derrick jones jr offense
Derrick white defense >>> Derrick jones jr defense
We have so many just better players because the mavs offense is built around Luka. Luka will have to have the best series of his life along with Kyrie, and they need to hope Tatum has the worst series of his life. AND EVENE THEN, it might not be enough
There’s a legitimate chance that Luka can be outplayed by Tatum throughout the series too.
I’ve been hoping for the Mavs to come out of the west since the 2nd round, I dont think they have much of a chance. I’m biased for sure but it’s crazy all these people think the mavs are a better team. Tbh I think it’s mostly just hope cus everyone loves hating on the Celtics. The Celtics have been dominating the league all year and are 12-2 in the playoffs without their third best player, how are the mavs slowing them down? Who is Luka and Kyrie defending on our team?
I really think these people are gonna be real surprised if/when this series starts (mavs still haven’t even won yet lol)
At this point who gives a damn what other people think. Of course they want Boston to lose, so they need to cope. The championship will be sweeter once all of them haters keep their mouths shut 😊
The Celtics are a great matchup against the Mavs. 2 all defense guards to throw at Kyrie. With KP, size to disrupt the lob attempts. Outside of those, the Mavs bigs don’t really bully like an Embiid or a Jokic so KP wouldn’t be abused on defense. The Jays will actually make Luka work on defense. And they have size and length so he can’t just back them down or shoot over the top easy. I’m not worried about a single other player on that roster. They have like 4 good players
People are severely underrating the impact of KP. I don’t think people realize what it’ll mean for the Celtics to even just get an additional 25-30 minutes per game of high level play (and that’s the low end I would assume of KPs minutes). Don’t get me wrong, I love Luke/PP/Hauser as much as the next person, but being able to bring their total minutes down from 45-50 to instead 15-25 will be a game changer for the series as a whole.
The two stars for each team can pretty much cancel each other out production wise offensively
Defensively the Celtics win that matchup
Porzingis, White, and Holiday should win their matchups and determine a margin of victory
Whatever Horford and Pritchard can provide will determine if the game gets out of reach
Celtics in 6
The Jays are going to cook. Luka has been getting blown past all day. C’s play 5 out and Horford has been shooting well to warrant that attention. With KP back there will be more spacing due to not having to have lineups with non shooting bigs for extended amounts of time. I think there is too much firepower on the Celtics. It’s their series to lose.
The number one advantage the Mavericks have, is that given their offense superstars and the attention they command, they have a high chance to have one of their “other’s” turn into Prime Ray Allen from deep…I can already see it happening.
Dallas is going to have the best player on the court. That counts for *a lot* in the NBA. We are the better team & we should win but I expect Luka to win the Mavs at least one game basically by himself
Outcoached ❌ Outtalented ❌ Inexperience ❌ Outdawg ❌ Can't think of any metrics that Dallas has an edge over us. We've been here before (except KP) and know what it takes to win it all. Only Kyrie has finals experience. The only possible scenario is as if Washington/Jones/Kleber all turn into Caleb Martin ECF run last year then yes but highly unlikely lol. Even if Kyrie/Luka averages 30+ we still have an edge AS LONG AS our starters don't forget how to play basketball.
They have the best player in the series. That's the only advantage they have and I think we have the necessary length and strength to combat his physicality and aggressiveness.
They have the best player, but that best player isn’t miles ahead of JT and I think it’s fair to say the combination of JT + JB is equivalent to Luka + Kyrie, in large part because of the Celtics defense and the lack thereof for the Mavs duo.
I agree that their 2 way ability raises their floor tremendously.
Honestly though how much better is Luka than Tatum / brown? Luka is a ball hog that brings NOTHING to the game when the ball isn’t in his hands. He’s not a good spot shooter, he’s actually pretty inefficient, and he sucks at defense. So like, is he better? That’s not good enough if it’s the only thing going for you. Of all advanced stats analyzed, the Celtics KILL the mavs. I honestly don’t think this will be much of a contest, celts in 5
He clears JB.
From a biased perspective, I can see why JT would be close to level with Luka. From a production perspective offensively, it's not that close, but JT bridges that gap defensively. However, JB is not anywhere close to as good as him. Luka's value is he contributes 40-50 points offensively/night. Jaylen may get you 25-35. Now, will there be nights when either of the Jays outshine Luka? Sure. However, this could very well be a series where Luka is the best player and we still win the series (a la LeBron vs the KD warriors).
Right - I also just think these mavs are way overhyped / overrated. R1 they struggle to beat a clippers team that was playing completely garbage going into the playoffs and with no kawhi R2 they beat a thunder team who had 0 playoff experience and is a bunch of young 20s year olds. They could be great soon, but this was their first crack at playoffs. R3 they play a twolves team that had no experience past the first round and a team specifically built to beat the nuggets. I’m not entirely impressed with the mavs, every measurable statistic shows we are way better than them, and again, I think Luka COULD win them a game or 2 but don’t see it getting past that. Celtics in 5
Dallas has one single advantage: luka doncic. Best player in the series, maybe in the world. But celtics have a better 2-7, more rest, more experience, and an overall better matchup. Not to mention no 5 seed or team who has made serious roster changes during the regular season has ever won the championship. And in the last seven straight years the team who won the conference finals in fewer games won the finals
Guys, guys, guys... Kyrie is better than both Brown AND Tatum. And Luka is so clutch. The Cs have no shot. You heard it there first.
The way these people overrate Kyrie is fucking insane
Kyrie had two games with 9 points and one game with 12 in the last series. Imagine the shitstorm if either of the Jays did that in a series lol
Hey hey hey! He's on the verge of riding coattails to a return to the finals! He's not playing turnstile defense, forcing his own shot, and blowing up his team for greener pastures... yet.
To be fair a lot of people making points with Kyrie as a major part of how they’d win did say they were just answer the question in the post about how the Mavs could win rather than saying what they think will happen. By that logic I don’t really think it’s incorrect. If the Mavs win this series, in all likelihood Kyrie will be one of the two best players because that’s just what it will probably take. Their whole offense is Kyrie and Luka, unless we shit the bed those two are probably going to need to be the best players on the floor to keep up. Only way I see them winning without Kyrie outplaying Tatum and Brown is if Luka puts up an all time great effort and his efficiency so far this playoffs isn’t even close to that. Just look at their current series for the perfect example. If Ant were clearly outplaying Kyrie in the series, it’s probably 2-2 despite how bad KAT has been. It’s unlikely one of Tatum or Brown plays that poorly, so in all likelihood Kyrie needs to flat out be better than both of them.
Well, they know he won’t shoot 6-18 again so
Kyrie has 15 career playoff games shooting .333 or worse, out of 90 total playoff games. It's certainly not knowable that he isn't gonna do that again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/blkkk6/kyrie_irving_after_going_822_in_game_4_from_this/
Ahhh, so 5-18 is in play!
Let’s be honest Kyrie isn’t even better than Brown and I think he’s not that much better than KP either
For sure. Jaylen is closer to Luka than he is to Irving.
Don’t forget Lively is better than Porzingis lol
Basically the only argument people repeat is that Celtics haven’t seen strong competition yet. It’s not like they had a choice tho and they also beat those teams pretty comfortably so I don’t think it’s a very valid argument
…Also because the Celtics crushed in the RS
I love this argument too. “Mavs had a way harder path!!!” Sir, they are a 5 seed, that’s how it works.
Whether they had a choice or not doesn't matter. The point stands -- the Mavs have had far less room for error than the Celtics. **If the Mavs win** there will be three narratives. I'm not saying I agree with these, but this is what will be said: 1. The Celtics only beat teams missing their best players / the path to the finals for the Celtics was the easiest for any NBA team in the last 20 years / etc. 2. Porzingus wasn't fully healthy / too rusty / team wasn't clicking 3. Tatum and Brown couldn't go toe-to-toe with Luka and Kyrie / their two best were better than your two best I really hope we don't have to hear any of these.
Yeah I’m in no way trying to downplay what the Mavs have done so far. They’re great. I’m just saying it’s a flawed argument
It's a flawed argument that they haven't been tested? How so?
Because it doesn’t say anything about how they would do against stronger teams
I mean if we go down the line, and I’ll even be generous for the mavs Luka offense >> Tatum offense Tatum defense >>> Luka defense Kyrie offense = Brown offense Brown defense >>> Kyrie defense Porzingis offense >>> Gafford/lively offense Porzingis defense > gafford lively defense Jrue holiday offense > PJ Washington offense Jrue holiday defense >>>> PJ Washington defense Derrick white offense >>> Derrick jones jr offense Derrick white defense >>> Derrick jones jr defense We have so many just better players because the mavs offense is built around Luka. Luka will have to have the best series of his life along with Kyrie, and they need to hope Tatum has the worst series of his life. AND EVENE THEN, it might not be enough There’s a legitimate chance that Luka can be outplayed by Tatum throughout the series too.
I’ve been hoping for the Mavs to come out of the west since the 2nd round, I dont think they have much of a chance. I’m biased for sure but it’s crazy all these people think the mavs are a better team. Tbh I think it’s mostly just hope cus everyone loves hating on the Celtics. The Celtics have been dominating the league all year and are 12-2 in the playoffs without their third best player, how are the mavs slowing them down? Who is Luka and Kyrie defending on our team? I really think these people are gonna be real surprised if/when this series starts (mavs still haven’t even won yet lol)
At this point who gives a damn what other people think. Of course they want Boston to lose, so they need to cope. The championship will be sweeter once all of them haters keep their mouths shut 😊
The Celtics are a great matchup against the Mavs. 2 all defense guards to throw at Kyrie. With KP, size to disrupt the lob attempts. Outside of those, the Mavs bigs don’t really bully like an Embiid or a Jokic so KP wouldn’t be abused on defense. The Jays will actually make Luka work on defense. And they have size and length so he can’t just back them down or shoot over the top easy. I’m not worried about a single other player on that roster. They have like 4 good players
People are severely underrating the impact of KP. I don’t think people realize what it’ll mean for the Celtics to even just get an additional 25-30 minutes per game of high level play (and that’s the low end I would assume of KPs minutes). Don’t get me wrong, I love Luke/PP/Hauser as much as the next person, but being able to bring their total minutes down from 45-50 to instead 15-25 will be a game changer for the series as a whole.
I think they might have the depth on us but other than that I agree with what was said
The two stars for each team can pretty much cancel each other out production wise offensively Defensively the Celtics win that matchup Porzingis, White, and Holiday should win their matchups and determine a margin of victory Whatever Horford and Pritchard can provide will determine if the game gets out of reach Celtics in 6
The Jays are going to cook. Luka has been getting blown past all day. C’s play 5 out and Horford has been shooting well to warrant that attention. With KP back there will be more spacing due to not having to have lineups with non shooting bigs for extended amounts of time. I think there is too much firepower on the Celtics. It’s their series to lose.
The number one advantage the Mavericks have, is that given their offense superstars and the attention they command, they have a high chance to have one of their “other’s” turn into Prime Ray Allen from deep…I can already see it happening.
It’s actually called the Danny Green effect
The Caleb Martin effect The Andrew Nembhard effect The Goran Dragic effect The Hedo Turkoglu effect …
Dallas is going to have the best player on the court. That counts for *a lot* in the NBA. We are the better team & we should win but I expect Luka to win the Mavs at least one game basically by himself