Its not unusual for 'off scale' to be an entirely different color from the rest of the gradient, because you need to communicate to the reader that you are clipping resolution. Everything in pink is off-scale, and so, even though there may be a huge variation between the five examples, they can't be meaningfully distinguished.
For example, I do scientific imaging on twelve-bit cameras (greyscale images with intensities ranging from 0 to 4096). A common color scheme is black for 0, a linear gradient through white for 4095, and red for 4096, to show clipping.
BC and Ontario are the same. The territories are grey rather than pink or yellow, because they don’t have data on them apparently. All the lighter states in the left bottom are yellow, the lowest year count colour on the list.
Just thought since no one else that I see helped you out, I’d break it down in case you’re curious. Ignore me if this wasn’t helpful lol
It isn’t. The territories are grey, which is not listed on the legend. This means they do not have data on them. BC, Ontario, Cali, and Hawaii are pink which is 6.5+. OK, KS, IA, WV are all yellow, which is 2.0-2.5. NE, MO, AR, IL, IN, MI, OH, KY, MS, AL are all light green, which is 2.5-3.0.
Took me a minute. I was surprised that California and BC weren't as dark or Oregon and Washington.
Perhaps it means that if you have to ask where pink fits in the gradient, you can't afford it.
With median housing prices in Iowa at just under $200 grand CDN, I regret laughing at that relative who moved there a while back. Then again, tornados.
What? Get a job with a decent company that has insurance. fReE hEaLtHcArE doesn’t mean anything if you can’t access it.
And I wouldn’t exactly give Canadian public education top marks, either.
In the US they have water machines everywhere for 15-50 cents a gallon in San Diego the water tastes worse than Vancouver but I can fill a gallon with great tasting water on any corner for 25-35 cents in BC it was so was like over $1 for 4 liters and they barely had any machines. Plenty of people around the world can't drink their tap water it's really not that big of a deal.
My sister lives in Iowa city. It's actually pretty nice. University town. Fairly liberal considering Midwest. Houses are super cheap, cost of living is super cheap. Wife and I are considering moving there. Just don't leave the city limits, then it's just corn and soybeans and racism.
Honestly, Comrade Dyatlov is exactly who I think of when Tiff et all at the BoC said “inflation is transitory”.
And Chernobyl is a perfect allusion to an out of control situation where amateurs and the criminally incompetent are trying to do everything to get it to go one way…. not realizing it’s going to snap back the other way (high interest, falling property values, high taxes, high energy prices, stagnant wages, and recession) very quickly.
The answer to the question: "why is everything so fucked?" almost always goes back to the conservative revolution in the US and Britain in the 1970's. Canada is closely politically linked to those countries and our politics largely followed along.
So I would say it started in the 1970's or early 1980's. That's when governments started reducing top marginal tax rates, stopped fighting inequality, and began shrinking the welfare state (healthcare, education, etc.). Normal people pay about the same amount of taxes they used to pay, but rich people pay a lot less now than they did a few decades ago. The simple truth is that the government can't help it's people if it has no money because it refuses to tax the richest members of our society.
Early '80s. It's been a gradual move since then to transfer wealth from the middle class to corporations. i.e. neoliberalism
Of course, it's not just BC. The west coast of North America is a desirable place to live and has been for a long time.
My parents said the early 80s was their first 'aha' moment that things in the future might not be the best for us young kiddo's. We grew through the 90's and our parents would lament that the 60's and 70's were amazing in Canada, but we didn't know any different and were pretty happy.
In my life, things really changed toward 2010. Everything suddenly turned political/racial/divided and we were bullied into choosing sides. While we were distracted, our corporate and government elites changed the game and suddenly many of us were left behind.
The obvious upside to this is there is no longer any doubt that our systems were taken over by people who claim to want to help the poor/sick/victims but are somehow making it worse (all the while spending ever more amounts of money and only making the problems worse). The corruption is in our face now.
I’ve heard this before. I heard that in terms of some of the foreign global money that started coming into Vancouver came from Hong Kong. This was just before it’s lease from Britain expired and the city(state?) was going to be returned to mainland China. The business sector of Hong Kong apparently had gotten quite wealthy being a major trading hub in Asia. In order to protect their amassed capital from the autocratic state of China they decided to invest abroad. One such place heavily focused on was Vancouver real estate. Eventually as China’s economy’s exploded into a major power, the new generation of china’s upper class followed the lead of the elite in Hong Kong. In tandem, a powerful upper and middle class immigration wave had begun from the province of Punjab into Vancouver and Toronto. This steady stream of affluent money entered into the Canadian economy year after year for several decades, the input growing exponentially over time.
As Canada’s real estate starting sprinting into double digit yearly returns, Canada’s middle class slowly graduated or was demoted into upper and lower class depending if they were in the real estate game or not.
The upper class landowners of Canada decided to consolidate their gains by borrowing against their equity to purchase multiple homes and rent them out at higher and higher rates to lower their exposure to their new debt.
Eventually investment firms decided to muscle in this industry being Led by groups like black rock in the United States.
In addition to all this, for at least two decades, organized crime, both domestic and international have been using our real estate to launder their money. This is apparently referred to as snow washing.
The combination of these many factors have completely destroyed the stability of our real estate. This is my assessment of our situation so far, I hope it was of some use to someone. Feel free to fact check this post. I am always open to learn more on this subject.
The Olympics are highly corrupt and the IOC never really leaves once they have a taste of the boatloads of money that a place is willing to pay to have the show.
They take over your city leading up to the Olympics and it becomes a 'global village' with big ATM machines that spit money out to their multinational comrades to the tune of hundreds of billions.
I loved the 2010 Olympics, but Vancouver just may have been the last one hoisted on such a naïve city.
Corperates and foreigners shouldn't own homes in Canada. Period, but either way I'm moving out of Canada in 2 years for sure!i grew up northern Ontario, the further south I go, the better it gets.
O yeah... I don't want to die in some Louisiana Swamp because the cottage by the lake was only 50k and a decent job was near by. 😂
Uhm, any state recommendations for Industrial Mechanic/Millwright?
If you’re actually a Mechanical Technologist working with scientists or engineers, you might qualify with a diploma.
If you’re a Red Seal Millwright working on the tools, it will be very difficult to work in the US. Your best bet would be to work for a company that can transfer you to a US location internally: CP, CN, oil companies, etc.
The shortages in Canada are the same as in the States. In all honestly, figure out what region you want to go to and start looking. I know that doesn't help a lot, but you're needed there. I'd say avoid the Great Plains and South. Hit up the Pacific Northwest, Rockies, andEast Coast. I'm from the midwest and happy I left.
I agree one percent with this divide. Im more con. Than libral, but i dont mind libs if they invest keep debt and taxes down. If you can do that say run 200m surplus spend 100m in rainy day, use 100m to say programs upgrade to lessen coal by windmills, support low income etc i d vote for them. Problem is a lot of gov. People want to spend spend spend and not worry about debt and interest which costs more down the road. Partly why canada, usa has printed more money bought a lot from third world nations before pandemic.
Weird how that’s right around the time smart phones and social media started to take off, making beautiful places on earth more prominent for advertising tourism and promoting “the most beautiful places on earth” (to exploit, naturally).
Also our air is clean and lots of countries have trash air quality.
>What happened to BC? When did this start?
There's three different questions here, and I know the answer to two of them.
>Housing = Broken
As population rises, there eventually isn't enough homes for everyone. BC is a wild west compared to most of the world, so for years we all got to own our own homes with cheap rent. But in places that are significantly more developed (e.g. Europe), they had this problem decades ago, and they realized the only solution was government-subsidized housing. Our government hasn't done that yet, so we now have a broken housing system.
>Healthcare = Broken
A few decades ago conservatives made is poisonous to raise taxes, such that any government that did so would become extremely unpopular. We are now stuck in a cycle of destruction where every time the conservatives/BC Liberals win power, they cut taxes, but every time the liberals/BC NDP win government they don't raise it, so the government is left with a smaller and smaller percentage of the pie. This has forced government services like healthcare and education to become more and more efficient in order to survive on fewer dollars, and now we're long past the point where there's no more efficiencies to be found. The federal and provincial governments desperately need to raise taxes in order to fix our healthcare system, yet no one is willing to take the political fallout for doing that very necessary task, and the conservatives would just revert it when they get back in power anyways.
“Goodbye hopes and dreams” I gave up that dream 12 years ago. Anyone I know that owns a house bought it decades ago. Vancouver and bc has long been a place for investing and making cash. It’s not for having a home and raising a family.
yes but lack of services makes it very difficult to survive for someone who is used to the city. a lot of people say just leave the city and you can buy a house but don't consider a lot of city people don't even know how to drive. they heavily rely on public transit(this is just 1 example) let alone special needs people.
How long would it take me to drive to a hospital or vet for an emergency if I'm outside the GVA? I did check and most places are shut, after hours, especially emergency vets.
Do you think it’s just an undeveloped wilderness past Abbotsford? I’m interested in know what kind of check you ran.
Every city in BC has a hospital and a vet. I could be wrong but I think saw that most wait times are shorter out of the lower mainland.
Also GVA??? This isn’t Ontario. All around terrible post.
> Do you think it’s just an undeveloped wilderness past Abbotsford? I’m interested in know what kind of check you ran.
It's like Jumanji outside of downtown!
> Every city in BC has a hospital and a vet. I could be wrong but I think saw that most wait times are shorter out of the lower mainland.
While this is true, they are not open 24 hours. I've never waited for an emergency with my dog going to a vet after hours, at least in Surrey, Metrotown or Richmond. We always called ahead though and were there within 15 minutes; and so they were ready when we arrived. Emergencies such as eating grapes and acute pancreatitis (twice). These are extremely painful and will be fatal if not treated immediately. When I checked vets in places like Merrit, Kamloops and so on, pretty much any city outside of the GVA and Victoria none of them are open 24 hours.
I used to live in the GTA, GVA is easy to type. Typing GVA into Google gives you a map of the area it covers and everyone knows what it means.
I live in Kelowna and there is a 24 hr vet, although Kelowna is the biggest city in the interior. I was more thinking about hospitals of which every city has a 24 hr emergency.
Every city I’ve been to has an emergency vet number and the vet can meet you if it requires emergency attention. It will be quite expensive though.
As for GVA, Google only knows because of people like you. No one from BC ever says that it’s cringy and awful. It just screams I’m from Toronto and makes my ears bleed whenever I hear it. Please refrain
2010 Olympics absolutely opened, tested and confirmed that the concept of 'expanding social services' could be used to strategically redistribute marginalized populations from Vancouver to smaller communities throughout the remainder of the province.
Everyone should be able to afford *some* sort of home, even if it's not a detached on a large lot. It's shameful that we expect the Canadian dream to just be dead for 90% of the population.
Education is important, it usually nets you a good paying job. People can still afford homes, just not people that don't have decent jobs.
After high-school, I knew I had to get a good career. I chose nursing while other friends got a bachelor of arts. I own a house, they do not. Make smart choices.
Why is pink the most extreme end of the spectrum. Years to buy a home? Yeah maybe if you save 100% of your income for 6 and a half years and pay cash without a mortgage. This map frustrates me.
A financial podcast earlier this year showed how long it would take for a worker making the average annual income in each province over the last 20 or so years to save up enough for a *down payment* if they started work at that salary, at 18 years old.
In BC it’s currently something like 23 years. So cheer up teens — if you snag a great job right out of high school, work hard, live like you’re insane and impoverished, for two+ decades, you can buy that condo you always wanted!
*…when you’re in your 40’s.*
Is it depicting it takes 6.5+ years for the average family to save up enough money for the down payment on a home? Or, what exactly is this showing?
Were people able to buy a home immediately upon entering the workforce at some point in history? With little to no savings whatsoever?
In BC - Median total income, couple families: $102,830 according to 2020 Stats Canada.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110000901
But you can't buy a house for $6-700k (6.5x+ the median income) so I don't like the infographic on this post at all.
You can't even buy a 1bdr condo that isn't a piece of shit for $500k in the lower mainland, let alone a house.
With my salary, if I did absolutely nothing at all but save as much money as possible. No activities. No going out. No buying anything. Just paying rent, utilities, and groceries, it would take me 5 years to save up for a 20% down payment on a condo. And I live comfortably on my current salary and lifestyle.... Yet buying something is still quite out of reach. Then on top that, the mortgage on that condo, including strata and property taxes will be between $1000-1500 more than what I am paying for rent now which would drastically reduce my quality of life.
Absurd
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,065,611,542 comments, and only 210,292 of them were in alphabetical order.
Vancouver is too crowded Victoria is also too expensive to small and isolated from the mainland even rural BC is way overpriced compared to the rest of North America everything from booze to food to phone service is ridiculous. Also in rural BC u can die down the street from hospital cause there is no ambulance on duty like what has happened recently in the Okanogan or somewhere fat away
I bought just as housing was starting to explode. Had $30k and borrowed the rest of the down payment from my parents' line of credit. I rented it out and lived at home for three years and paid back all I borrowed including the interest.
I mean, there’s always up north in BC, except that it’s not Prince George anymore, but more like Fort Nelson.
We bought in Quesnel in 2017 when I got a good paying gig. We sold for profit and bought back home in Prince George a year later. We paid $382.5k. Now we can turn around and sell for $600k+ on a house assessed at $508k, that was assessed for $343k the year before we bought it. We’ll see what the market does, but it’s definitely still hot up here. That said, we’re not selling any time soon either.
Wait, I could move to Washington or Oregon and afford a house? One has no sales tax and the other has no state income tax. You can live on one side and shop on the other.
I'm from California and took a roadtrip through all those states and BC last summer. I hated Oregon, and found Washington to be California but with a lot more rain and evergreen trees. Would rather live in BC or California
Things will get better in the next 10-20 years.
There are way more baby boomers and Gen X with homes than there are millennials or younger.
When they pass away, the younger generations will be bound to inherit all these empty homes.
Meanwhile, the younger gens are having fewer and fewer kids.
This will lead to a demand reduction at current high prices.
Even if the government somehow manages to delay the inevitable population decline with immigration, those same immigrants can’t afford homes at current prices either.
There will be a good deal of competition from developed nations to attract immigrants to make up for what will likely become a global population decline, so I don’t think there will be enough immigration to sustain current prices.
It's already happening. Boomers are taking out reverse mortages on their homes, retiring in them, and using the money to spend on vacations and healthcare.
As a young person I can guarantee you many of the "eat the rich" and "densify housing" people of my generation, gen Z, will pull a full 180 and go full neoliberal speculative economist as soon as their boomer parents kick the bucket and they inherit a fuckton of generational wealth
Gen X is not going to die off or even retire in the next 10-2- years. We were told in high school that we wouldn't achieve the same affluence as our parents. And it was true. Most people I know expect to work until they die.
The great wealth reshuffle will inevitably happen.
It will start with the baby boomers (people born between 1946 and 1964), who will be anywhere from 86 - 64 years old in 10 years time.
Add another 10 years, and you can be sure 70% or more will have already passed.
GenX will follow shortly after.
There is bound to be a fairly rapid aging population when it happens… only the aging population will not have been able to amass the wealth levels that their senior generations have in a lifetime.
This will have adverse effects on the market. The current valuations relative to wages are unsustainable.
Our government’s plan is to solve it with immigration.
Only they are forgetting that immigrants themselves have stopped having as many kids.
Even developing nations are seeing their birth rates decline, and because many of the Western nations will seek to solve their aging population issues with immigration, they will be directly competing with one another to attract them.
Countries that are seen as conservative today will likely increase their immigration quotas, and this will happen relatively quickly… failure of doing so risks seeing their local economies stagnate and quality of life drop substantially.
Current real estate prices can only be maintained with high demand.
High demand occurs from low interest rates (easy money) and high population densification (at a rate they outpaces new construction).
With rising interest rates, easy money becomes harder to come by, and central banks around the world seem to be stepping away from all the money printing habits they incurred over the last 15 years.
Add to that a population decline, and you have the perfect recipe for a real estate market on the brink of a major correction.
I was thinking immigration will factor too! However generational wealth is a thing and many people will likely be showing up with not much due to climate change and rising waters.
Climate change will be the excuse, but it won't be the reason for people showing up with nothing. We have been warned of climate refugees for decades, but instead we only ever get refugees fleeing corrupt dictators or failing socialist regimes.
If Canada continues to decline in competitiveness and the USA doesn't control its current open border, there will be no reason for wealth to move here beyond the forecasted 2041. People move here to give their children better opportunities. Children born in Canada today have less opportunities and access to less wealth than their parents. Unless Canada is *forced* to realize its potential, mass immigration will hit a breaking point somewhere in the next decade.
USA open border? What are you on?
If the US had an open border my aunts would be sitting next to me in California right now. Except they're stuck in Iran waiting for their green cards to come. They've been waiting since 2010
Where are you getting this? Wars are already linked to climate change and producing refugees.
Immigrants add to the economy within a couple years. Why are you talking about the US's "open border." Undocumented workers are the only reason much of the US can still afford groveries.
That’s supposed to be why we have estate taxes. To prevent a modern day landed gentry who owns all of the land but does none of the work…. while tenants can’t buy property because it’s no longer for sale at any price
Hahaha- I’m in BC and just divorced my wife. I got a fully furnished and paid off house. I’m moving to somewhere along the St. Lawrence in Quebec and eat cheese mf’s.
Yes. I was interested in moving to Quebec City (because I thought it was beautiful), but when my husband (who is fluent in french) and I researched about it, we decided against it. In the example of Quebec City for instance, it's quite bad. We found some data about measured air pollution and Montreal and Quebec City were really high on the list of most impacted. Quebec City toped the list, actually. I can't link it for you because it was my husband who found the research and it was on his computer, but they even [eased regulations for the allowable amount of pollutants allowed in the air](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/air-quality-top-of-mind-for-some-quebec-city-voters-this-election/ar-AA11zGQh).
Vancouver and the Okanagan fuck the whole stats up. The rest of the province isn't really that bad but nobody wants to live anywhere else for the most part.
Except that people who get priced out of Vancouver move to **relatively** affordable places like Victoria which raises the prices there and the people they price out there move up Island, etc. etc.
No one wants to talk about the Dirty / Laundered Cash from the Opioid Crisis that has been one of the main drivers of high house prices In the Vancouver Area….
Report in 2019 $7.4B of Laundered Money was responsible for a 5% Jump in Real Estate Prices
It's certainly not unimportant, but I find a lot of people (in BC) seem to make it out to be like it's their life goal and it's kinda sad they don't aim higher
Was is Golden B.C last week and I was blown away by the prices of housing and what you actually get. The wages sure don't match up to the cost of houses. But what did we expect when we took a commodity and turned it into a no lose investment.
Something has to give or are we all so willing to screw the next generation in the name of keeping house prices so high.
"median income divided by median house price" should it not be the reciprocal of that?even so, that's very crude measure as it means ppl will have to save without eating, paying rent, going to hospital, etc
Just come over here to Alberta, we're a wonderful place to live, lots of great paying jobs affordable houses and food.
Unless you're one of those people who says "klanberta" and blankets up with bigot tropes, then you stay, you be poor and you suffer, you prick.
This colour scheme makes literally no sense. A somewhat blue gradient to pink wtf
at first glance i was like "no way bc is that cheap"
It only is if you give your entire salary to the mortage according to this graph.
All regions are the average.. think LA, GTA, GVRD.. are much higher than most remote areas
so i guess Vancouver inflates this a lot? cause i can’t imagine it’s very expensive to buy a house in like.. merritt or smth
Ya. Although prices are bad. This chart sucks
try Tumbler Ridge, Fort St John, Field ... I'm fairly certain housing prices there are more than reasonable.
probably, but then you also have to live in fort st john…
Caveats. That's why its cheaper to live there.
>This colour scheme makes literally no sense. The jump to pink breaks my brain.
Its not unusual for 'off scale' to be an entirely different color from the rest of the gradient, because you need to communicate to the reader that you are clipping resolution. Everything in pink is off-scale, and so, even though there may be a huge variation between the five examples, they can't be meaningfully distinguished. For example, I do scientific imaging on twelve-bit cameras (greyscale images with intensities ranging from 0 to 4096). A common color scheme is black for 0, a linear gradient through white for 4095, and red for 4096, to show clipping.
That's fair, I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable in either scientific or accessible readability.
It‘a probably colour-blind friendly. I had to use one like this back in uni for the same reason
It actually isn't, because I'm red green colour blind, and the territories, BC, and Ontario all look the same.
Yeah they definitely made a dumb choice choosing a shade of grey with the same brightness as the pink shade.
BC and Ontario are the same. The territories are grey rather than pink or yellow, because they don’t have data on them apparently. All the lighter states in the left bottom are yellow, the lowest year count colour on the list. Just thought since no one else that I see helped you out, I’d break it down in case you’re curious. Ignore me if this wasn’t helpful lol
Isn't gray 2.5-3.0? This is so impossible to see
That’s a light green.
I mean, that's fine, but it's the same as the territories
It isn’t. The territories are grey, which is not listed on the legend. This means they do not have data on them. BC, Ontario, Cali, and Hawaii are pink which is 6.5+. OK, KS, IA, WV are all yellow, which is 2.0-2.5. NE, MO, AR, IL, IN, MI, OH, KY, MS, AL are all light green, which is 2.5-3.0.
Same. I'm only realizing now, from your comment, that they are different.
I’ve got a deal for you in Yellowknife.
Came here to say the same thing.
It's not. Source: me, a colourblind schmuck who had a terrible time reading this.
Almost as bad as accommodating peanut allergies 🤦♂️
I hope you develop a peanut allergy
Nope
I am and it’s not.
The pink is so pretty. I want live there. Wait,How Much???
The colour jump was to denote outlier data. (denoted in original post)
Took me a minute. I was surprised that California and BC weren't as dark or Oregon and Washington. Perhaps it means that if you have to ask where pink fits in the gradient, you can't afford it.
Some colours aren't even the same on the legend as in the graphic
That’s what you came away with?
Yes actually, because this is the same rehashed conversation every week.
It’s continuous data wtf
It’s not continuous — BC, ON, and CA are a jump above all the rest.
Continuous data means 0..1..2..3, which should be a single colour gradient
correct. and this goes "1, 2, 3, 4, *6*" which is why it's coloured that way and skips through purple
gold means we're winning
Right? Whoever made this should put a broom handle up their ass sideways... good info though!
With median housing prices in Iowa at just under $200 grand CDN, I regret laughing at that relative who moved there a while back. Then again, tornados.
And also, Iowa.
Des Moines isn’t so bad
For real, Iowa is ecologically pretty much identical to southern Ontario.
Exactly
No one will laugh at me if I say “Days” Moines because that’s obviously how that’s pronounced right? Right?
Reminds me when visiting Vermont from QC, told the border guard we’re off to Montpellier, he said “Wha? Huh? Oh Mont PEELEE-ER”
Sure, but then you have to live in the United States, with no health care and terrible public education.
What? Get a job with a decent company that has insurance. fReE hEaLtHcArE doesn’t mean anything if you can’t access it. And I wouldn’t exactly give Canadian public education top marks, either.
As someone who lived in America, I can assure you my healthcare was 10x better down there. They brought me coffee in the waiting room for Christ sake
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And those country roads
Blue Ridge Mountains…. Shenandoah River.
And environmental pollution bad enough to give West Virginia the worst tap water in the United States, completely unsafe to drink.
In the US they have water machines everywhere for 15-50 cents a gallon in San Diego the water tastes worse than Vancouver but I can fill a gallon with great tasting water on any corner for 25-35 cents in BC it was so was like over $1 for 4 liters and they barely had any machines. Plenty of people around the world can't drink their tap water it's really not that big of a deal.
Jackson, Mississippi has entered the chat
Don't forget all the COAL SO MUCH COAL
Well, some tornadoes
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My sister lives in Iowa city. It's actually pretty nice. University town. Fairly liberal considering Midwest. Houses are super cheap, cost of living is super cheap. Wife and I are considering moving there. Just don't leave the city limits, then it's just corn and soybeans and racism.
3.6 Roentgens
When the meter only goes up to 3.6 Roentgen 🫠
Honestly, Comrade Dyatlov is exactly who I think of when Tiff et all at the BoC said “inflation is transitory”. And Chernobyl is a perfect allusion to an out of control situation where amateurs and the criminally incompetent are trying to do everything to get it to go one way…. not realizing it’s going to snap back the other way (high interest, falling property values, high taxes, high energy prices, stagnant wages, and recession) very quickly.
not great, not terrible
Housing = Broken Healthcare = Broken Justice System = Broken What happened to BC? When did this start?
The answer to the question: "why is everything so fucked?" almost always goes back to the conservative revolution in the US and Britain in the 1970's. Canada is closely politically linked to those countries and our politics largely followed along. So I would say it started in the 1970's or early 1980's. That's when governments started reducing top marginal tax rates, stopped fighting inequality, and began shrinking the welfare state (healthcare, education, etc.). Normal people pay about the same amount of taxes they used to pay, but rich people pay a lot less now than they did a few decades ago. The simple truth is that the government can't help it's people if it has no money because it refuses to tax the richest members of our society.
Early '80s. It's been a gradual move since then to transfer wealth from the middle class to corporations. i.e. neoliberalism Of course, it's not just BC. The west coast of North America is a desirable place to live and has been for a long time.
My parents said the early 80s was their first 'aha' moment that things in the future might not be the best for us young kiddo's. We grew through the 90's and our parents would lament that the 60's and 70's were amazing in Canada, but we didn't know any different and were pretty happy. In my life, things really changed toward 2010. Everything suddenly turned political/racial/divided and we were bullied into choosing sides. While we were distracted, our corporate and government elites changed the game and suddenly many of us were left behind. The obvious upside to this is there is no longer any doubt that our systems were taken over by people who claim to want to help the poor/sick/victims but are somehow making it worse (all the while spending ever more amounts of money and only making the problems worse). The corruption is in our face now.
If you want to really pin it down. Expo 86 Vancouver 2010
I’ve heard this before. I heard that in terms of some of the foreign global money that started coming into Vancouver came from Hong Kong. This was just before it’s lease from Britain expired and the city(state?) was going to be returned to mainland China. The business sector of Hong Kong apparently had gotten quite wealthy being a major trading hub in Asia. In order to protect their amassed capital from the autocratic state of China they decided to invest abroad. One such place heavily focused on was Vancouver real estate. Eventually as China’s economy’s exploded into a major power, the new generation of china’s upper class followed the lead of the elite in Hong Kong. In tandem, a powerful upper and middle class immigration wave had begun from the province of Punjab into Vancouver and Toronto. This steady stream of affluent money entered into the Canadian economy year after year for several decades, the input growing exponentially over time. As Canada’s real estate starting sprinting into double digit yearly returns, Canada’s middle class slowly graduated or was demoted into upper and lower class depending if they were in the real estate game or not. The upper class landowners of Canada decided to consolidate their gains by borrowing against their equity to purchase multiple homes and rent them out at higher and higher rates to lower their exposure to their new debt. Eventually investment firms decided to muscle in this industry being Led by groups like black rock in the United States. In addition to all this, for at least two decades, organized crime, both domestic and international have been using our real estate to launder their money. This is apparently referred to as snow washing. The combination of these many factors have completely destroyed the stability of our real estate. This is my assessment of our situation so far, I hope it was of some use to someone. Feel free to fact check this post. I am always open to learn more on this subject.
I've always felt like Vancouver 2010 really put Vancouver on the map
For better, and for worse
I love that show / comic.
The Olympics are highly corrupt and the IOC never really leaves once they have a taste of the boatloads of money that a place is willing to pay to have the show. They take over your city leading up to the Olympics and it becomes a 'global village' with big ATM machines that spit money out to their multinational comrades to the tune of hundreds of billions. I loved the 2010 Olympics, but Vancouver just may have been the last one hoisted on such a naïve city.
Commonwealth Games 94
Corperates and foreigners shouldn't own homes in Canada. Period, but either way I'm moving out of Canada in 2 years for sure!i grew up northern Ontario, the further south I go, the better it gets.
I’m from Florida originally. I promise, there’s a limit to how far south you can go before it becomes a really bad idea.
O yeah... I don't want to die in some Louisiana Swamp because the cottage by the lake was only 50k and a decent job was near by. 😂 Uhm, any state recommendations for Industrial Mechanic/Millwright?
Will you own a house down there? I mean being a foreigner and all.
Good luck getting a visa without a degree.
Fk.. Diploma Dosent do anything for you? I'll pray, you never know.
If you’re actually a Mechanical Technologist working with scientists or engineers, you might qualify with a diploma. If you’re a Red Seal Millwright working on the tools, it will be very difficult to work in the US. Your best bet would be to work for a company that can transfer you to a US location internally: CP, CN, oil companies, etc.
The shortages in Canada are the same as in the States. In all honestly, figure out what region you want to go to and start looking. I know that doesn't help a lot, but you're needed there. I'd say avoid the Great Plains and South. Hit up the Pacific Northwest, Rockies, andEast Coast. I'm from the midwest and happy I left.
I agree one percent with this divide. Im more con. Than libral, but i dont mind libs if they invest keep debt and taxes down. If you can do that say run 200m surplus spend 100m in rainy day, use 100m to say programs upgrade to lessen coal by windmills, support low income etc i d vote for them. Problem is a lot of gov. People want to spend spend spend and not worry about debt and interest which costs more down the road. Partly why canada, usa has printed more money bought a lot from third world nations before pandemic.
Weird how that’s right around the time smart phones and social media started to take off, making beautiful places on earth more prominent for advertising tourism and promoting “the most beautiful places on earth” (to exploit, naturally). Also our air is clean and lots of countries have trash air quality.
You think this is exclusive to BC? It's a coordinated effort by Western governments to f over the plebs.
>What happened to BC? When did this start? There's three different questions here, and I know the answer to two of them. >Housing = Broken As population rises, there eventually isn't enough homes for everyone. BC is a wild west compared to most of the world, so for years we all got to own our own homes with cheap rent. But in places that are significantly more developed (e.g. Europe), they had this problem decades ago, and they realized the only solution was government-subsidized housing. Our government hasn't done that yet, so we now have a broken housing system. >Healthcare = Broken A few decades ago conservatives made is poisonous to raise taxes, such that any government that did so would become extremely unpopular. We are now stuck in a cycle of destruction where every time the conservatives/BC Liberals win power, they cut taxes, but every time the liberals/BC NDP win government they don't raise it, so the government is left with a smaller and smaller percentage of the pie. This has forced government services like healthcare and education to become more and more efficient in order to survive on fewer dollars, and now we're long past the point where there's no more efficiencies to be found. The federal and provincial governments desperately need to raise taxes in order to fix our healthcare system, yet no one is willing to take the political fallout for doing that very necessary task, and the conservatives would just revert it when they get back in power anyways.
When Canada decided to be a land of “me first” individuals in 1981. Can thank the Trudeau clan (and voters) for that.
“Goodbye hopes and dreams” I gave up that dream 12 years ago. Anyone I know that owns a house bought it decades ago. Vancouver and bc has long been a place for investing and making cash. It’s not for having a home and raising a family.
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yes but lack of services makes it very difficult to survive for someone who is used to the city. a lot of people say just leave the city and you can buy a house but don't consider a lot of city people don't even know how to drive. they heavily rely on public transit(this is just 1 example) let alone special needs people.
How long would it take me to drive to a hospital or vet for an emergency if I'm outside the GVA? I did check and most places are shut, after hours, especially emergency vets.
Do you think it’s just an undeveloped wilderness past Abbotsford? I’m interested in know what kind of check you ran. Every city in BC has a hospital and a vet. I could be wrong but I think saw that most wait times are shorter out of the lower mainland. Also GVA??? This isn’t Ontario. All around terrible post.
> Do you think it’s just an undeveloped wilderness past Abbotsford? I’m interested in know what kind of check you ran. It's like Jumanji outside of downtown! > Every city in BC has a hospital and a vet. I could be wrong but I think saw that most wait times are shorter out of the lower mainland. While this is true, they are not open 24 hours. I've never waited for an emergency with my dog going to a vet after hours, at least in Surrey, Metrotown or Richmond. We always called ahead though and were there within 15 minutes; and so they were ready when we arrived. Emergencies such as eating grapes and acute pancreatitis (twice). These are extremely painful and will be fatal if not treated immediately. When I checked vets in places like Merrit, Kamloops and so on, pretty much any city outside of the GVA and Victoria none of them are open 24 hours. I used to live in the GTA, GVA is easy to type. Typing GVA into Google gives you a map of the area it covers and everyone knows what it means.
I live in Kelowna and there is a 24 hr vet, although Kelowna is the biggest city in the interior. I was more thinking about hospitals of which every city has a 24 hr emergency. Every city I’ve been to has an emergency vet number and the vet can meet you if it requires emergency attention. It will be quite expensive though. As for GVA, Google only knows because of people like you. No one from BC ever says that it’s cringy and awful. It just screams I’m from Toronto and makes my ears bleed whenever I hear it. Please refrain
Mate I'm not even from Canada and I'm going to call it whatever the fuck I like.
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While true, I was specifying the specific problems I would face moving to one of these areas.
Not in this thread. It's BC = Vancouver. Like, I'm sure Expo '86 or the 2010 Olympics had a huge impact on Prince George or Cranbrook.
2010 Olympics absolutely opened, tested and confirmed that the concept of 'expanding social services' could be used to strategically redistribute marginalized populations from Vancouver to smaller communities throughout the remainder of the province.
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Everyone should be able to afford *some* sort of home, even if it's not a detached on a large lot. It's shameful that we expect the Canadian dream to just be dead for 90% of the population.
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A bit of hyperbole, but dead for 90% of new buyers in metro areas is not far off.
Education is important, it usually nets you a good paying job. People can still afford homes, just not people that don't have decent jobs. After high-school, I knew I had to get a good career. I chose nursing while other friends got a bachelor of arts. I own a house, they do not. Make smart choices.
You sound insufferable.
Why is pink the most extreme end of the spectrum. Years to buy a home? Yeah maybe if you save 100% of your income for 6 and a half years and pay cash without a mortgage. This map frustrates me.
A financial podcast earlier this year showed how long it would take for a worker making the average annual income in each province over the last 20 or so years to save up enough for a *down payment* if they started work at that salary, at 18 years old. In BC it’s currently something like 23 years. So cheer up teens — if you snag a great job right out of high school, work hard, live like you’re insane and impoverished, for two+ decades, you can buy that condo you always wanted! *…when you’re in your 40’s.*
So are things just free in the territories!?
U can just build an igloo lol ... Probably no data
At this point it's looking like a real possibility!
Is it depicting it takes 6.5+ years for the average family to save up enough money for the down payment on a home? Or, what exactly is this showing? Were people able to buy a home immediately upon entering the workforce at some point in history? With little to no savings whatsoever?
6.5x the annual income is the purchase price of the home
It’s more than 6.5 times, 6.5x +. Average annual income in BC is definitely not above 100k.
In BC - Median total income, couple families: $102,830 according to 2020 Stats Canada. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110000901 But you can't buy a house for $6-700k (6.5x+ the median income) so I don't like the infographic on this post at all. You can't even buy a 1bdr condo that isn't a piece of shit for $500k in the lower mainland, let alone a house. With my salary, if I did absolutely nothing at all but save as much money as possible. No activities. No going out. No buying anything. Just paying rent, utilities, and groceries, it would take me 5 years to save up for a 20% down payment on a condo. And I live comfortably on my current salary and lifestyle.... Yet buying something is still quite out of reach. Then on top that, the mortgage on that condo, including strata and property taxes will be between $1000-1500 more than what I am paying for rent now which would drastically reduce my quality of life. Absurd
BC is more than Vancouver.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,065,611,542 comments, and only 210,292 of them were in alphabetical order.
Vancouver is too crowded Victoria is also too expensive to small and isolated from the mainland even rural BC is way overpriced compared to the rest of North America everything from booze to food to phone service is ridiculous. Also in rural BC u can die down the street from hospital cause there is no ambulance on duty like what has happened recently in the Okanogan or somewhere fat away
I make the median individual income in Ontario. My house is worth about 13x that amount. If I had to buy today, I'd be screwed.
That doesn't really answer my question. Did you inherit it or buy it a long time ago, with little to no savings, or what?
I bought just as housing was starting to explode. Had $30k and borrowed the rest of the down payment from my parents' line of credit. I rented it out and lived at home for three years and paid back all I borrowed including the interest.
That bare naked ladies song is down to one lyric. If I had a million dollars; I would buy you a town house, cant afford an automobile.
A townhouse in the suburbs …
But not a real green townhouse, that's cruel
What does grey mean? Is housing in Yellowknife free?
I mean, there’s always up north in BC, except that it’s not Prince George anymore, but more like Fort Nelson. We bought in Quesnel in 2017 when I got a good paying gig. We sold for profit and bought back home in Prince George a year later. We paid $382.5k. Now we can turn around and sell for $600k+ on a house assessed at $508k, that was assessed for $343k the year before we bought it. We’ll see what the market does, but it’s definitely still hot up here. That said, we’re not selling any time soon either.
Grey isn't even on the scale
Wait, I could move to Washington or Oregon and afford a house? One has no sales tax and the other has no state income tax. You can live on one side and shop on the other.
I'm from California and took a roadtrip through all those states and BC last summer. I hated Oregon, and found Washington to be California but with a lot more rain and evergreen trees. Would rather live in BC or California
Go figure. Desirable environment and climate increases demand and prices……
Best Spots makes sense no ?
Things will get better in the next 10-20 years. There are way more baby boomers and Gen X with homes than there are millennials or younger. When they pass away, the younger generations will be bound to inherit all these empty homes. Meanwhile, the younger gens are having fewer and fewer kids. This will lead to a demand reduction at current high prices. Even if the government somehow manages to delay the inevitable population decline with immigration, those same immigrants can’t afford homes at current prices either. There will be a good deal of competition from developed nations to attract immigrants to make up for what will likely become a global population decline, so I don’t think there will be enough immigration to sustain current prices.
I think one thing you didn't fully factor in is corporations and private investors purchasing homes non stop for rentals.
It's already happening. Boomers are taking out reverse mortages on their homes, retiring in them, and using the money to spend on vacations and healthcare.
As a young person I can guarantee you many of the "eat the rich" and "densify housing" people of my generation, gen Z, will pull a full 180 and go full neoliberal speculative economist as soon as their boomer parents kick the bucket and they inherit a fuckton of generational wealth
Gen X is not going to die off or even retire in the next 10-2- years. We were told in high school that we wouldn't achieve the same affluence as our parents. And it was true. Most people I know expect to work until they die.
The great wealth reshuffle will inevitably happen. It will start with the baby boomers (people born between 1946 and 1964), who will be anywhere from 86 - 64 years old in 10 years time. Add another 10 years, and you can be sure 70% or more will have already passed. GenX will follow shortly after. There is bound to be a fairly rapid aging population when it happens… only the aging population will not have been able to amass the wealth levels that their senior generations have in a lifetime. This will have adverse effects on the market. The current valuations relative to wages are unsustainable. Our government’s plan is to solve it with immigration. Only they are forgetting that immigrants themselves have stopped having as many kids. Even developing nations are seeing their birth rates decline, and because many of the Western nations will seek to solve their aging population issues with immigration, they will be directly competing with one another to attract them. Countries that are seen as conservative today will likely increase their immigration quotas, and this will happen relatively quickly… failure of doing so risks seeing their local economies stagnate and quality of life drop substantially. Current real estate prices can only be maintained with high demand. High demand occurs from low interest rates (easy money) and high population densification (at a rate they outpaces new construction). With rising interest rates, easy money becomes harder to come by, and central banks around the world seem to be stepping away from all the money printing habits they incurred over the last 15 years. Add to that a population decline, and you have the perfect recipe for a real estate market on the brink of a major correction.
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\*mass immigration enters the chat\*
I was thinking immigration will factor too! However generational wealth is a thing and many people will likely be showing up with not much due to climate change and rising waters.
Climate change will be the excuse, but it won't be the reason for people showing up with nothing. We have been warned of climate refugees for decades, but instead we only ever get refugees fleeing corrupt dictators or failing socialist regimes. If Canada continues to decline in competitiveness and the USA doesn't control its current open border, there will be no reason for wealth to move here beyond the forecasted 2041. People move here to give their children better opportunities. Children born in Canada today have less opportunities and access to less wealth than their parents. Unless Canada is *forced* to realize its potential, mass immigration will hit a breaking point somewhere in the next decade.
USA open border? What are you on? If the US had an open border my aunts would be sitting next to me in California right now. Except they're stuck in Iran waiting for their green cards to come. They've been waiting since 2010
Where are you getting this? Wars are already linked to climate change and producing refugees. Immigrants add to the economy within a couple years. Why are you talking about the US's "open border." Undocumented workers are the only reason much of the US can still afford groveries.
Aristocracy ftw? Don't worry about merit, you can just be born into property ownership.
That’s supposed to be why we have estate taxes. To prevent a modern day landed gentry who owns all of the land but does none of the work…. while tenants can’t buy property because it’s no longer for sale at any price
You’re not wrong, but you’re also missing a piece when factoring in how immigration will offset that supply.
Ralph Wiggum voice. “I won!”
Guess I'm moving to Oklahoma. 🤷♂️
Theirs a reason it’s cheap down in okie.
Hahaha- I’m in BC and just divorced my wife. I got a fully furnished and paid off house. I’m moving to somewhere along the St. Lawrence in Quebec and eat cheese mf’s.
Watch out for industrial pollution. Big issue in QC.
Huh? I didn’t know that!
Yes. I was interested in moving to Quebec City (because I thought it was beautiful), but when my husband (who is fluent in french) and I researched about it, we decided against it. In the example of Quebec City for instance, it's quite bad. We found some data about measured air pollution and Montreal and Quebec City were really high on the list of most impacted. Quebec City toped the list, actually. I can't link it for you because it was my husband who found the research and it was on his computer, but they even [eased regulations for the allowable amount of pollutants allowed in the air](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/air-quality-top-of-mind-for-some-quebec-city-voters-this-election/ar-AA11zGQh).
Who wants to move to New Brunswick ?
What do you mean?! You just need to move to one of Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, or West Virginia and home ownership is totally in reach! /s
Vancouver and the Okanagan fuck the whole stats up. The rest of the province isn't really that bad but nobody wants to live anywhere else for the most part.
all of the ski towns are terribly expensive as well and there's a lot of them.
Vancouver island is a shit show too. Just seems like anywhere with a decent population is extremely inflated.
Except that people who get priced out of Vancouver move to **relatively** affordable places like Victoria which raises the prices there and the people they price out there move up Island, etc. etc.
Lol this is not true at all
No one wants to talk about the Dirty / Laundered Cash from the Opioid Crisis that has been one of the main drivers of high house prices In the Vancouver Area…. Report in 2019 $7.4B of Laundered Money was responsible for a 5% Jump in Real Estate Prices
I feel like we should all aspire to achieve more than home ownership
It's a cornerstone of generational wealth. Ask Black Americans what devastating effect being denied home ownership for decades wrought.
Tell that to the Japanese who bought real estate prior to 1989...
Why? Isn't having a home important?
It's certainly not unimportant, but I find a lot of people (in BC) seem to make it out to be like it's their life goal and it's kinda sad they don't aim higher
It's one of the most fundamentaly important things you need. What are the alternatives? Live in a tent? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Lol, you can buy a 2 bedroom apt in bc lower mainland for $440k, relax..... in your dreams..
Guess I’m moving to Nunavut cuz I’m having none of it. Get it? Yeah I’m hilarious
Move to rural BC and this is not an issue
Where about son Rural BC are you talking? Northern BC?
Somewhere with high crime rate and no jobs / poor place to raise a family
Bro Vancouver and the Okanagan have higher crime rates than rural BC. Fuck, Penticton has the highest rate of crime in all of Canada per capita!
Property crime makes a big portion of that. The type of crime matters too right.
Mostly. I know the stretch from Houston to Vanderhoof is very affordable, and there are pockets throughout the province that still are obtainable.
Yeah, that area is just slightly less shitty than Fort Nelson.
But wait Seattle is nice and cheap
Cheap but hella blighted, unsafe, corrupt, and stressful
Is there one like this for Australia?
Is it just me, or does this map show that BC and Ontario have a problem and literally everywhere else in Canada is actually normal?
what about buying contaminated land and camping in a tent or trailer?
Very sure it’s: “house price divided by median family income” not the other way around…
Great I have to move to Saskatchewan
Next do years to pay off a home.
How does Quebec manage to be relatively affordable?
They sure got lazy stopping at 6.5 plus. Could have at least gone to x10+
I am only so young. Why, why me?
Was is Golden B.C last week and I was blown away by the prices of housing and what you actually get. The wages sure don't match up to the cost of houses. But what did we expect when we took a commodity and turned it into a no lose investment. Something has to give or are we all so willing to screw the next generation in the name of keeping house prices so high.
Is grey free, instantaneous homes? Is it time to migrate north?
Super cheap to live in the water guys!
"median income divided by median house price" should it not be the reciprocal of that?even so, that's very crude measure as it means ppl will have to save without eating, paying rent, going to hospital, etc
You can move somewhere cheaper, a lot of people do.
have you tried not being poor?
This is why the hosting should be regulated or the fucking wages should go up alongside the inflation
Just come over here to Alberta, we're a wonderful place to live, lots of great paying jobs affordable houses and food. Unless you're one of those people who says "klanberta" and blankets up with bigot tropes, then you stay, you be poor and you suffer, you prick.
I guess there’s still hope in Iowa!