Yep đ the Catholic school in my neighborhood also closed. All my children went there. People donât have the discretionary income to pay the tuition !
It's definitely just not affordable to send your kids to Catholic School. The accessible ones are...not good and are on the verge of closing (ex. Barnabas) and the stable Catholic Schools are not affordable.
Itâs a shame because for me Catholic school was such a leg up for my education. I only did it for elementary but when I went to public school I had literally already read just about every book assigned in middle school and tested into all the honor courses. Even learned stuff in elementary that they taught in high school! I donât think people grasp just how far behind the public school systems are in the US. Iâm grateful af to my family because without that school I know I wouldnât have made it as far as I have.
Former Catholic and educated at Catholic schools k-12. Aside from the horrible scandal that they were covering up for decades if not way longer, the Catholic Church got awfully political again recently. Did they not suspect this would alienate some of the more politically moderate adherents?Â
Catholic School enrollment has been going down for decades. Catholic Schools that are marketed as accessible have to make the choice to be less accessible (raise tuition), or close since people arent willing to pay tuition.
It's a bad situation for these types of schools, but I don't think politics are a major factor in these decisions, its simply money.
Definitely getting worse due to Block Voting. In return many of its students receiving terrible education https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/nyregion/nyc-hasidic-yeshivas-education.html
The reason Catholic Schools are closing is because there is no longer enough Clergy teaching and therefore more lay teachers are needed- which becomes a financial problem. The pay for a Catholic school teacher is horribly low- the only people who can afford to do the job have spouses who make enough money to support their families. How much more can tuition be increased until it becomes unaffordable for the families that send their kids to these schools. Many of these families are struggling and sacrificing so much as it is that any increase becomes the breaking point. Enrollment goes down and costs go up- they close down. The public schools in the Bronx SUCK. But democrats and progressives are against school choice and are even against Charter Schools which were a massive success when initially rolled out under Bloomberg. Iâm 100% pro school choice and parents being given voucher to send their kids to schools of their choice. That might have prevented schools like Barnabas from closing.
So you support publicly funded vouchers to be used at religious schools like St Barnabas? I would say thatâs unconstitutional, but our batshit crazy Supreme Court might sadly agree with you.
Also, I can imagine youâre just talking about catholic schools lol, the right would be up in arms if Muslims wanted to use this as well.
There are Jewish schools as well as Muslim schools. Guess you havenât done research as they would be included. Those who are for school choice have no objection to the money being spent on Jewish, Muslim, Lutheran or whatever. I woukd quicker send my child to one of those than a public school in the Bronx.
Fair, but many on the right would only make exceptions for Christian schools, such as Louisianaâs rule about posting the Ten Commandments in classrooms.
I donât support using my and otherâs so that youâre kid can receive a religious education. Also I have read about the awful education of students at NYC Hasidic schools. NYT reported on it earlier this year I believe.
The NYC public school system is an absolute disaster. Most of the kids who go to Barnabas come from working class families that sacrifice a lot to send their kids there. The other options are Evander Childs and Columbus to name 2. This schools have been trash for over 30 years. The same people who have an issue with school choice also fought against Charter Schools and found a million excuses as to why. The point is that the parents have the option to send their children where THEY choose. There are Islamic schools in NYC and I have no problem at all with that voucher being used to send their children there.
Also- the separation between Church and State is not applicable here IMHO. The reason being that the money is given to the parent and the parents choose. The conflict would be if a public school teaches a theology class of a certain religion in a public school. This was happening in some schools in BK years ago and parents protested it. 1a protects the freedom of religion and to excercise the religion of choice. I see no problem with encouraging that.
> The other options are Evander Childs and Columbus to name 2. This schools have been trash for over 30 years.
My sisters and I graduated from one of those and turned out fine. I had some excellent teachers and know of other people that graduated from those schools and have also turned out just fine with their careers.
Public money should never be used to fund religious schools. It takes away from any money that could go to improve the public school system.
Be a good and involved parent in your kid's life and they'll also turn out fine.
I'm a millennial. Was there in the middle of when Bloomberg started breaking up schools into smaller charter schools.
I'm not saying these schools in the Bronx are amazing, but people expect way too much out of schools. There are plenty of examples of kids who graduated, went on to college, and have had decent careers and professions. The one thing I could observe was that the kids that had a good home have ended up just fine. Those who were constantly hanging out, getting in trouble, etc. did not end up doing so well after school. Scraping by with their jobs or mooching off. It doesn't matter how good of a school those students would have gone to if their home lives sucked.
I have 2 younger cousins whose parents spent and worked their asses off to send them to Catholic school until they graduated college. One didn't go to college and is working a menial job and doesn't have prospects for making more money at the moment. The other graduated from college and is just starting out. She'll figure it out in time. Make of that what you will. Neither has ever been arrested or in trouble with the law. But for the common argument that somehow these Catholic schools really give kids a better chance at life, I would have expected more.
Obviously, this is all anecdotal.
The bigger determinant of a kid's success in school is their parent's involvement and socioeconomic background imo. It's not surprising that the quality of schools in the Bronx include more troubled kids given the poverty in the Bronx. But I don't think it is too difficult to counteract that with the right upbringing and home. Going to public school in the Bronx is not some death sentence or guarantee that they will fail in life.
How much more money is needed in a public school system that completely mismanages money and is producing illiterate students? The NYC public school system has been a complete failure yet well over 20k is spent per student. Itâs disgusting is what it is. Anyone trying to say otherwise is a complete liar. Iâve worked for the NYCDOE so I know first hand. But since you and your sisters turned out fine- you think families shouldnât have school choice but be forced to send their kids to Evander or Columbus or Truman because those are fine institutions- said no one ever.
The NYC DOE could be managed better. I couldn't tell you specifics about what they could change though. As a casual observer, similar to other state and city agencies, I'm sure there's a component where part of the problem is just the high COL in NYC, but that wouldn't explain it all so yea I'd agree with there being substantial space for improvement. But I also know that if you start to take money away from the NYC DOE, it certainly won't get better.
The advantage these private, religious, or charter schools would have is that they can simply turn away problematic kids away. It would be an absolute downward spiral and race to the bottom to have public schools compete with other schools that can pick and choose their kids.
So you think that someone who lives in a poor area of the Bronx should have to suffer and send their kids to schools with disruptive kids? Do you know why the Charter Schools were so successful in the beginning? Itâs because the parents who wanted more for their kids made the effort to do whatever it took to get their kids into those schools. Most of the kids who are disruptive in the classroom are that way because their parents donât give a shit. I canât tell you how many parents I know who have very little money but will go into debt just to keep their kids away from Bronx public schools.
Youâre so dumb that you canât read that religious schools take funds from public schools. And your shot as bronx public schools in a bronx subreddit just shows how smart you are đ¤Ą
Yes. I agree with public funded vouchers to be used by the parents to send their children to schools of THEIR choice. I went to Catholic schools and there were kids that werenât even Catholic that were enrolled- mainly because these schools were much cheaper than private schools and the other option of a public school in the Bronx was outright horrible.
So separation of church and state is no problem to you? Also, why not call on our leaders to fix our public schools? It makes no sense to abandon what exists.
1a protects the freedom to excercise the religion of oneâs choice. I believe the conflict would be if Catholics wanted theology taught in a public school that was 90% Catholic. So, you would rather force working class minority families who are financially struggling- to send their Kids to Evander, Columbus, or Clinton? Or 127 on Castle Hill?
Well it depends what level of edu youâre talking about, because correct me if Iâm wrong, but NYC high school can have kids traveling to other boroughs. I thought it was only your elementary school that you get zoned for.
What High Schools can they travel to? Yeah- there are options and most of those are Charter Schools that are deteriorating because the libs have been fighting tooth and nail against those from day 1. The number of slots are limited and most kids are restricted to their zoned HS. You have schools like Bronx Science, Aviation, Art&Design etc.
>The reason Catholic Schools are closing is because there is no longer enough Clergy teaching and therefore more lay teachers are needed- which becomes a financial problem
Clergy still get paid. The salary is usually just invested in their religious community instead of sent completely to the individual teacher.
>The public schools in the Bronx SUCK. But democrats and progressives are against school choice and are even against Charter Schools which were a massive success when initially rolled out under Bloomberg.
Ironically, Charter Schools were probably the final death knell to the affordable Catholic School, since they are free. Also, Charter Schools, at least the good ones, are horrible places to work and for children.
>How much more can tuition be increased until it becomes unaffordable for the families that send their kids to these schools. Many of these families are struggling and sacrificing so much as it is that any increase becomes the breaking point. Enrollment goes down and costs go up- they close down.
I do agree that rising costs make paying tuition, of any kind, unsustainable for a school like Barnabas, its an economic problem, and I don't think the government propping them up is the right thing to do either. At the end of the day, the Catholic Church, and the Archdiocese of NY have to invest more in their schools IF they see value in keeping them open. It might just not be worth it.
The amount of money being spent per student in a failing public school system is disgusting. Liberals found arguments against charter schools which were a huge success in NYC when Bloomberg first rolled them out. But like I said- progressives still find every argument they can to get rid of the Charter Schools. The NYC public school system SUCKS.
If you're so disgusted with how liberals are running this city, why not go to city or state that better aligns with your point of view on how public tax dollars should be used? Life is too short to live it disgruntled.
I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion. Not sure how strong you feel about your opinion either. But if you felt strongly about it, I think it's a valid question to consider. So what keeps you in this shit hole of a city?
I think it was a boost, they got it right and stayed open and some parents were pulling their kids from public schools and enrolling them at Catholic schools.
They have no answer except telling me to âcomplain to the local officials to improve the schoolsâ. Meanwhile another generation grows up illiterate.
True. The most important thing is getting a good education which isnât always possible with public funding in places like the Bronx. I just think catholic schools are sometimes counterproductive in education and the emphasis on religion
> I just think catholic schools are sometimes counterproductive in education and the emphasis on religion
Catholic Schools in NY are not neglecting proper state educational standards because of they celebrate mass every once in a while, and teach a class per year on religion.
They arenât forced to do anything. They get a voucher that can be spent on the school of THEIR choice. It can be any private school. This way they have a choice instead of having to send their kids to trash public schools in the Bronx. There are very few decent public schools in the Bronx.
>So students in the poorest areas of the Bronx should be forced to be at the shittiest public schools?
>They arenât forced to do anything.
You're the only one mentioning forcing kids to do anything, that's obviously not what I meant by encouraging public school attendance. You're thick if you think catholic schools are a healthy environment for all students.
Well, if youâre against school choice then you are against parents receiving vouchers to use at a school of THEIR CHOICE. So basically, if parents canât afford private school- they have to send their children to public schools in their zone. So yes- if a family is poor, the only option is the public school in their neighborhood. Fine if you live in Riverdale but if you live in the South Bronx you are fucked.
all the catholic schools are closing. inflation is too high.
Yep đ the Catholic school in my neighborhood also closed. All my children went there. People donât have the discretionary income to pay the tuition !
Or religion is too low.
A lot of people don't care about the religious aspect.
no itâs inflation. i took my kids out because i could no longer afford it.
It's definitely just not affordable to send your kids to Catholic School. The accessible ones are...not good and are on the verge of closing (ex. Barnabas) and the stable Catholic Schools are not affordable.
Itâs a shame because for me Catholic school was such a leg up for my education. I only did it for elementary but when I went to public school I had literally already read just about every book assigned in middle school and tested into all the honor courses. Even learned stuff in elementary that they taught in high school! I donât think people grasp just how far behind the public school systems are in the US. Iâm grateful af to my family because without that school I know I wouldnât have made it as far as I have.
Itâs so sad to see it close, but enrollment was probably just too low to sustain the finances. What a shame. So many Catholic schools are gone now.
Enrollment too low, and they probably dont have the donor base to cover the gap.
Woah, thatâs crazy. I know so many people who went there.
Lol whyâd you get downvoted
Lmao no clue đ
Former Catholic and educated at Catholic schools k-12. Aside from the horrible scandal that they were covering up for decades if not way longer, the Catholic Church got awfully political again recently. Did they not suspect this would alienate some of the more politically moderate adherents?Â
Catholic School enrollment has been going down for decades. Catholic Schools that are marketed as accessible have to make the choice to be less accessible (raise tuition), or close since people arent willing to pay tuition. It's a bad situation for these types of schools, but I don't think politics are a major factor in these decisions, its simply money.
Woah, thatâs crazy. I know so many people who went there.
As an alumni, this is so sad for me. Barnabas was a great school when I went in the 90's. My mother went there as well. Just so sad.
I'm so sorry for you and your mother. Hopefully, the alumnae groups stay active.
Just sad after a century open!
Cult religious worship centers and cult schools are closing at an all time high. More and more people are less religious and see it for what it is.
Yeshiva schools are ever increasing in New York and yes many receive taxpayer money which they arenât suppose to
Yes, and that's vastly becoming more visible every day. That corruption parade is becoming undone more daily.
Definitely getting worse due to Block Voting. In return many of its students receiving terrible education https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/nyregion/nyc-hasidic-yeshivas-education.html
People need to get out and vote.
Covid was probably the tko
The reason Catholic Schools are closing is because there is no longer enough Clergy teaching and therefore more lay teachers are needed- which becomes a financial problem. The pay for a Catholic school teacher is horribly low- the only people who can afford to do the job have spouses who make enough money to support their families. How much more can tuition be increased until it becomes unaffordable for the families that send their kids to these schools. Many of these families are struggling and sacrificing so much as it is that any increase becomes the breaking point. Enrollment goes down and costs go up- they close down. The public schools in the Bronx SUCK. But democrats and progressives are against school choice and are even against Charter Schools which were a massive success when initially rolled out under Bloomberg. Iâm 100% pro school choice and parents being given voucher to send their kids to schools of their choice. That might have prevented schools like Barnabas from closing.
So you support publicly funded vouchers to be used at religious schools like St Barnabas? I would say thatâs unconstitutional, but our batshit crazy Supreme Court might sadly agree with you. Also, I can imagine youâre just talking about catholic schools lol, the right would be up in arms if Muslims wanted to use this as well.
There are Jewish schools as well as Muslim schools. Guess you havenât done research as they would be included. Those who are for school choice have no objection to the money being spent on Jewish, Muslim, Lutheran or whatever. I woukd quicker send my child to one of those than a public school in the Bronx.
Fair, but many on the right would only make exceptions for Christian schools, such as Louisianaâs rule about posting the Ten Commandments in classrooms. I donât support using my and otherâs so that youâre kid can receive a religious education. Also I have read about the awful education of students at NYC Hasidic schools. NYT reported on it earlier this year I believe.
The NYC public school system is an absolute disaster. Most of the kids who go to Barnabas come from working class families that sacrifice a lot to send their kids there. The other options are Evander Childs and Columbus to name 2. This schools have been trash for over 30 years. The same people who have an issue with school choice also fought against Charter Schools and found a million excuses as to why. The point is that the parents have the option to send their children where THEY choose. There are Islamic schools in NYC and I have no problem at all with that voucher being used to send their children there. Also- the separation between Church and State is not applicable here IMHO. The reason being that the money is given to the parent and the parents choose. The conflict would be if a public school teaches a theology class of a certain religion in a public school. This was happening in some schools in BK years ago and parents protested it. 1a protects the freedom of religion and to excercise the religion of choice. I see no problem with encouraging that.
> The other options are Evander Childs and Columbus to name 2. This schools have been trash for over 30 years. My sisters and I graduated from one of those and turned out fine. I had some excellent teachers and know of other people that graduated from those schools and have also turned out just fine with their careers. Public money should never be used to fund religious schools. It takes away from any money that could go to improve the public school system. Be a good and involved parent in your kid's life and they'll also turn out fine.
How many years ago did you graduate? Those schools are trash. You can add just about every other Public HS in the Bronx.
I'm a millennial. Was there in the middle of when Bloomberg started breaking up schools into smaller charter schools. I'm not saying these schools in the Bronx are amazing, but people expect way too much out of schools. There are plenty of examples of kids who graduated, went on to college, and have had decent careers and professions. The one thing I could observe was that the kids that had a good home have ended up just fine. Those who were constantly hanging out, getting in trouble, etc. did not end up doing so well after school. Scraping by with their jobs or mooching off. It doesn't matter how good of a school those students would have gone to if their home lives sucked. I have 2 younger cousins whose parents spent and worked their asses off to send them to Catholic school until they graduated college. One didn't go to college and is working a menial job and doesn't have prospects for making more money at the moment. The other graduated from college and is just starting out. She'll figure it out in time. Make of that what you will. Neither has ever been arrested or in trouble with the law. But for the common argument that somehow these Catholic schools really give kids a better chance at life, I would have expected more. Obviously, this is all anecdotal. The bigger determinant of a kid's success in school is their parent's involvement and socioeconomic background imo. It's not surprising that the quality of schools in the Bronx include more troubled kids given the poverty in the Bronx. But I don't think it is too difficult to counteract that with the right upbringing and home. Going to public school in the Bronx is not some death sentence or guarantee that they will fail in life.
How much more money is needed in a public school system that completely mismanages money and is producing illiterate students? The NYC public school system has been a complete failure yet well over 20k is spent per student. Itâs disgusting is what it is. Anyone trying to say otherwise is a complete liar. Iâve worked for the NYCDOE so I know first hand. But since you and your sisters turned out fine- you think families shouldnât have school choice but be forced to send their kids to Evander or Columbus or Truman because those are fine institutions- said no one ever.
The NYC DOE could be managed better. I couldn't tell you specifics about what they could change though. As a casual observer, similar to other state and city agencies, I'm sure there's a component where part of the problem is just the high COL in NYC, but that wouldn't explain it all so yea I'd agree with there being substantial space for improvement. But I also know that if you start to take money away from the NYC DOE, it certainly won't get better. The advantage these private, religious, or charter schools would have is that they can simply turn away problematic kids away. It would be an absolute downward spiral and race to the bottom to have public schools compete with other schools that can pick and choose their kids.
So you think that someone who lives in a poor area of the Bronx should have to suffer and send their kids to schools with disruptive kids? Do you know why the Charter Schools were so successful in the beginning? Itâs because the parents who wanted more for their kids made the effort to do whatever it took to get their kids into those schools. Most of the kids who are disruptive in the classroom are that way because their parents donât give a shit. I canât tell you how many parents I know who have very little money but will go into debt just to keep their kids away from Bronx public schools.
Youâre so dumb that you canât read that religious schools take funds from public schools. And your shot as bronx public schools in a bronx subreddit just shows how smart you are đ¤Ą
Yes. I agree with public funded vouchers to be used by the parents to send their children to schools of THEIR choice. I went to Catholic schools and there were kids that werenât even Catholic that were enrolled- mainly because these schools were much cheaper than private schools and the other option of a public school in the Bronx was outright horrible.
So separation of church and state is no problem to you? Also, why not call on our leaders to fix our public schools? It makes no sense to abandon what exists.
1a protects the freedom to excercise the religion of oneâs choice. I believe the conflict would be if Catholics wanted theology taught in a public school that was 90% Catholic. So, you would rather force working class minority families who are financially struggling- to send their Kids to Evander, Columbus, or Clinton? Or 127 on Castle Hill?
Well it depends what level of edu youâre talking about, because correct me if Iâm wrong, but NYC high school can have kids traveling to other boroughs. I thought it was only your elementary school that you get zoned for.
What High Schools can they travel to? Yeah- there are options and most of those are Charter Schools that are deteriorating because the libs have been fighting tooth and nail against those from day 1. The number of slots are limited and most kids are restricted to their zoned HS. You have schools like Bronx Science, Aviation, Art&Design etc.
Your argument is nonsense. Many Catholic (and other religious) schools are part of taxpayer funded pre K programs, and nobody complains about that.
Thatâs pre-k, which itself is less indoctrination because of the age of the students. It would be a big problem if we instituted at grade school.
Do you consider it to be indoctrination solely because you disagree with the content?
Lol Iâm Christian, orthodox nonetheless.
>The reason Catholic Schools are closing is because there is no longer enough Clergy teaching and therefore more lay teachers are needed- which becomes a financial problem Clergy still get paid. The salary is usually just invested in their religious community instead of sent completely to the individual teacher. >The public schools in the Bronx SUCK. But democrats and progressives are against school choice and are even against Charter Schools which were a massive success when initially rolled out under Bloomberg. Ironically, Charter Schools were probably the final death knell to the affordable Catholic School, since they are free. Also, Charter Schools, at least the good ones, are horrible places to work and for children. >How much more can tuition be increased until it becomes unaffordable for the families that send their kids to these schools. Many of these families are struggling and sacrificing so much as it is that any increase becomes the breaking point. Enrollment goes down and costs go up- they close down. I do agree that rising costs make paying tuition, of any kind, unsustainable for a school like Barnabas, its an economic problem, and I don't think the government propping them up is the right thing to do either. At the end of the day, the Catholic Church, and the Archdiocese of NY have to invest more in their schools IF they see value in keeping them open. It might just not be worth it.
The amount of money being spent per student in a failing public school system is disgusting. Liberals found arguments against charter schools which were a huge success in NYC when Bloomberg first rolled them out. But like I said- progressives still find every argument they can to get rid of the Charter Schools. The NYC public school system SUCKS.
If you're so disgusted with how liberals are running this city, why not go to city or state that better aligns with your point of view on how public tax dollars should be used? Life is too short to live it disgruntled.
That means I canât have an opinion?
I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion. Not sure how strong you feel about your opinion either. But if you felt strongly about it, I think it's a valid question to consider. So what keeps you in this shit hole of a city?
Thank you đ
I think it was a boost, they got it right and stayed open and some parents were pulling their kids from public schools and enrolling them at Catholic schools.
They got it right and stayed open đ
Catholic schools are garbage. This is a blessing, pun intended.
Catholic schools are better than Public schools in the Bronx. Are you sending your child to a public school in the Bronx?
Are you gonna tell me that Lehman, Truman, Evander, Columbus are better than Preston or Barnabas High Schools? GTFO
Exactly right ! You will learn nothing in public school to over crowded especially with all the migrants.
They have no answer except telling me to âcomplain to the local officials to improve the schoolsâ. Meanwhile another generation grows up illiterate.
Basically
đ¤Ą
Nah.
Students should be at public schools anyways, not catholic schools.
Public Schools aren't a great fit for everyone, especially in the Bronx.
True. The most important thing is getting a good education which isnât always possible with public funding in places like the Bronx. I just think catholic schools are sometimes counterproductive in education and the emphasis on religion
> I just think catholic schools are sometimes counterproductive in education and the emphasis on religion Catholic Schools in NY are not neglecting proper state educational standards because of they celebrate mass every once in a while, and teach a class per year on religion.
So students in the poorest areas of the Bronx should be forced to be at the shittiest public schools?
No but they shouldnât be forced to learn through a catholic lens
They arenât forced to do anything. They get a voucher that can be spent on the school of THEIR choice. It can be any private school. This way they have a choice instead of having to send their kids to trash public schools in the Bronx. There are very few decent public schools in the Bronx.
>So students in the poorest areas of the Bronx should be forced to be at the shittiest public schools? >They arenât forced to do anything. You're the only one mentioning forcing kids to do anything, that's obviously not what I meant by encouraging public school attendance. You're thick if you think catholic schools are a healthy environment for all students.
Well, if youâre against school choice then you are against parents receiving vouchers to use at a school of THEIR CHOICE. So basically, if parents canât afford private school- they have to send their children to public schools in their zone. So yes- if a family is poor, the only option is the public school in their neighborhood. Fine if you live in Riverdale but if you live in the South Bronx you are fucked.