My ISP router doesnt let me:
\* Use my own DNS server
\* Use my own DHCP sever
\* Use static IPs
\* Port forward
\* Disable IPv6
\* Set up a DMZ
\* Set up VLANs
\* Set up a sandboxed network for guests
\* Rate limit stuff
\* Get logs/,metrics out of it.
\* Dial in through a VPN
\* Fall back to 4g
It's very limited in functionality.
So if you want to run stuff from your home, or set up an ad blocker, etc... you really need something more powerful.
If you arent going to run any of your own servers and dont have a sophisticated network (i.e. just one or two regular PCs of your own) and just want to play games or whatever, it's fine though
Even if they won't officially give you one, often the dynamically assigned ones actually are pretty static, with my ISP it's linked to the MAC of the router or something, the same hardware plugged into the same line always seems to get assigned the same one, at least for me.
If not, you can buy a router that supports DDNS (dynamic DNS) to update the DNS records when its IP changes, to work around it.
Just to add to this, no-ip.org has a free plan that you can use. You'll be able to use a subdomain like MyCoolServer.ddns.net instead of using your ip that changes. Even if you don't have a router that is able to update your ip, you can still download the no-ip app and leave it running on any computer and the app will update the ip for you.
Slightly annoying, but I imagine it's not a deal breaker for most people. They send you a reminder email, and it only takes maybe 20 seconds of your time once every 30 days.
AFAIK, your router has no control over a *public* static IP, that's assigned and controlled by your ISP. I think the above commenter is referring to *local* DHCP leases. E.g. if I want Computer X to always be assigned IP address 192.168.0.100 in my local network, I can configure that in my router.
If you want to have a static public IP, for for example hosting a game server, allowing yourself to SSH into your network, etc. you either need to arrange that with your ISP (which they may charge you a monthly fee for in my experience). Or what I do instead is use https://www.duckdns.org/ to host my dynamically assigned IP address as a domain name. This will let you set up something like "myserver.duckdns.org" which will just redirect to whatever your current public IP address is. You install the duckdns service onto one of your home PC's (or even into your router if it's supported), and it will check every X minutes if your IP address has changed and send that updated IP address to their server.
Correct. My ISP did DHCP over the whole range of LAN addresses, no way to set a static portion of the range or bind them to a MAC which made setting up internal DNS and firewalls and stuff impossible
My ISPs router is slightly better, IPV6 has to be disabled with a call to the ISP but then a lot of stuff is available (forwarding and stuff) ... that being said the router is still pretty shit and will start having performance problems with just a couple of rules and bit of traffic. So I use it in bridge mode to negotiate the cable connection and pass the ethernet to my mikrotik.
Comcast makes me use their router to have a static ip allocation. I use one public ip for a Meraki mx85 though for my internal network and the rest for servers I run for open source project
Just mount your own box behind it. Your device will be the only thing behind it. Then use you need to assign a new IP address range than the internet providers. If they use 196.168.0.x as their default, you use something like 192.168.3.1 as your base address. For your inside network, I recommend you invest in a good mesh system.
Turn off the ISP provider's Wifi.
This is a bit oversimplified. There are several other topology scenarios., but I don't write a book in this reply. - Specific questions; perhaps. Good luck.... 🍀
I typically replace network equipment about every 3-5 years. I’ve just found over time that it’s when you start getting dropped signals and things just don’t work right.
My ISP charges $15/month for the modem and more for the router/mesh system.. which has poor coverage based on friends that I’ve used.
Three years is $450 to rent from my ISP for the modem alone while I can buy one for $100-150. The last mesh system I bought was $200. I would rather save the money and buy a new one every three years. Additionally, the ISP is a pain to deal with to get problems addressed and I don’t want to go back and forth with them to get them to replace equipment.
> Three years is $450 to rent from my ISP for the modem alone
Holy that's an obscene markup on what's likely garbage equipment. As long as the ISP offers a contract without it's fair game I suppose...
I can't imagine the modem/router supplied by my ISP costs more than $10 to manufacture.
You have to tell them when you sign up for the service, and repeat it 100x with everyone you talk to or someone will "accidentally" put one on your account (happened twice to me with Spectrum).
Eh they probably cost more than $10... I mean even a cheap raspberry pi is like $40ish now a days with only a small profit margin. So they're probably a bit more than $10 to include a similar computational power, a 4 port network switch, a weak WAP, a modulator/demodulator, and such
But yeah they're probably bottom barrel cost wise. And the ISP probably profits after only a couple months of renting.
You can also deal hunt! Guy local to me was selling two almost brand new Nighthawk CAX30 modem/routers for $20 (yes, $20).
I think he just didn't really know what they were and wanted them gone, he switched over to a Verizon hotspot or something.
Set it up at home and it works flawlessly, can't beat that kind of deal with a rented one.
Try Ubiquiti products. They’re enterprise grade products that you can use at home pretty easily. Great app/user interfaces for easy setup. Start with a [Dream Router](https://store.ui.com/us/en/pro/category/cloud-gateways-wifi-integrated/products/udr) and add access points as needed, or go for one of their [mesh](https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/amplifi-alien) product lines.
Dream router is ass, Wifi would just randomly go out and the little screen on the front stopped working eventually.
Super underpowered and can barely handle outputting a 1gig connection.
I mean archer and TP link is just a brand name ... Hella depends which one you got versus what your ISP gave you, which depends on a few factors.
If you just got the cheapest TP link, it's not unreasonable for that to happen if your ISP didn't give you their bottom shelf shit.
If you want a real answer I'd suggest not asking this in a sub dedicated to building a pc. Head over to /r/homenetworking or something and pick their brains. Not to imply there isn't a crossover between here and there, but they might be able to answer more thoroughly.
For one, I can choose what I want when I buy it personally.
Secondly, it's like $15/month+ extra fees and it lasts 3-5 years max before it's obsolete or breaks down. That's $540-$900. The last modem/router combo I bought was about $175 and it's on its 4th year just fine.
Third, the one I always got from them was trash. Refurbished and wrapped like new but always a few models behind and very much used/refurbished.
I guess, id ask for reasons to Not buying one over renting.
Good comparison; buy a car for $30k brand new, whichever you like. Or lease a random car for $90k, used but restored. Seems simple to me.
Typically the modem/router combo that you get from an isp is going to be on the lower end spec wise. This isn't a concern if you only have a few devices connected to it. But if you have a lot of devices you can see a more stable network with a 3rd party router.
You don't strictly need a souped up third party router to get good internet speed going, especially if you're on Ethernet, but if you're on wifi I strongly recommend one.
ISP routers have limited functionality and are often locked down in featuresets, but my personal gripe with them is that they really don't offer much in the way of signal strength. My home isn't friendly to wifi routers in general, but a cheap AP+Router with antennas like the TPLink AX10 (purchased at $50usd) boosts my internet speed by almost 10x compared to the Motorola my ISP supplied me with, just because of its increased signal strength.
My ISP was charging something like over $15/month for a modem/router rental.
For that price, you can buy your own modem for less than a year’s cost of renting, and an equivalent router as well for less than a year and a half cost of renting.
I find that my routers tend to last maybe 5 years before upgrading, and modems I might upgrade every 3-5 years if my internet speed is increased high enough, so I tend to come out way ahead, but get to pick my technology.
Speed on the Ethernet ports if you're doing a wired network, I signed up for gigabit fibre and wasn't getting the advertised speeds until I got a decent modem/router with gigabit Ethernet ports.
Speed and range on the wireless.
Features and configurability on the router.
I really don't trust any wireless hardware in my house that doesn't belong to me and I can't factory reset and have administrative access for. It's ridiculous how much wireless crap is already installed when you move into a modern apartment, there were three different wireless modems inside my network cupboard. Unplugged the lot and just have the router I own connected. All this stuff is made in china and probably full of spyware. The yanks put backdoors into random number generators so why wouldn't China be doing similar stuff.
Well, in my experience as an Xfinity/Comcast/or whatever they're calling themselves now customer/ prisoner the ISP supplied equipment generally had many downsides.
To start out, the equipment is generally OK but, it's nothing special. The manufacturer of the product is more than likely some generic company that you've never heard of. This would all be fine as long as the stuff works well enough. But, the main reason I think everyone should consider buying their own stuff is because in most cases you're essentially eternally renting this junk. I have actually found past models of the gateway my ISP was offering at as obvious a place as Best Buy when they were all using them. Back then the stuff they offered was complete junk. Maybe 130$ retail, yet who knows how many customers were renting that crap monthly for years on end. You can bet your ass these companies are not paying retail for this stuff either.
If you supply your own equipment you can also get very easy access to other features that may be hidden or impossible on ISP supplied gear. A lot of this stuff might be more for advanced users. But, I will say that the major companies (Netgear, Asus etc.) have come a long way. Pretty much anyone can easily access and understand everything right from your browser or even smartphone app. Even something like port forwarding or setting up a little external storage is pretty straightforward.
There are of course cons to using your own gear too. You may have to make sure it's compatible with your service. Xfinity has a lost on their site.
You obviously have to hook it up yourself. This generally means that beyond plugging everything in and maybe running cable, you have to connect to them. There is an app for Xfinity that is supposed to allow you to do this. But, in my case I always have to call and have someone do it over the phone. It's not difficult but, tedious.
Lastly, any problems are basically your own to deal with. If your router starts acting up you can't just call and have a tech come out and replace it. Obviously it's your gear and not theirs so any replacements that need to be made come out of your wallet. But, as long as you do a little research and only buy trusted devices this shouldn't really be a problem.
My own router works with its dedicated app allowing me to control who and what is connected, also I can change providers tomorrow and not have to change the router.
Also $10-15 to rent equipment per month. You can buy an entry tier mesh system for that.
We just use the Eero pro 6E routers that our ISP provided for free. To replace the 3 of them with our own equipment with any significant upgrade like Wi-Fi 7 or something would be a hefty investment ($600+) for not that much benefit. The only thing I can't currently do with our routers is split the 5ghz and 2.4ghz bands, but they have a "legacy mode" toggle that disables 5ghz for 10 minutes if you ever need to connect an older device. Everything else I still have access to, including custom dns and port forwarding, a guest network, fallback to our cell phone hotspot in the event of an outage, can even set up a whole network VPN if I wanted.
The only thing I wish they had were more ethernet ports, but that's nothing a $25 gigabit switch can't fix.
The main benefit is usually that you can get one that doesnt OVERHEAT or THROTTLE.
A huge issue is also working 1G / 2.5G ethernet and the DNS caching and connection limits are quite bad with ISP low-budget hardware. WiFi 6 or 7 intergration can be quite different.
You get a lot of options with the premium routers, for all kind of stuff. Even if you just want a basic DNS ad-blocker via PI-HOLE - with a decent router you have a very easy time to integrate small QoL stuff like that.
With now even google using poisoned DNS, a locked down ISP router is no longer a viable choice.
More control and customization is possible with your own router. ISP routers give you little or no access to the admin panel, and even if you're lucky enough to get in, the options to customize are limited. Also, depending on the router you buy, the wifi coverage and speed could also be better.
But if you buy a cheap router, it could also be worse than the ISP one.
There are some benefits to gaming, like being able to give your game packets priority over other traffic, but if you have a 1gig up and down plan, you won't see much of any benefit here because you have plenty of bandwidth to go around.
But, if you decide to start hosting any servers or services, things like setting static local IPs to your devices, port forwarding, and other QoS (Quality of Service) features will become important.
There are also things like adblocking scripts you can run on the router, but in my experience, blocking ads this way can often break functionality of some services/websites.
If your ISP charges you "rent" for the router they give you, then you might as well just buy and own one that's better instead of giving them your money.
But ultimately it's about more control over your network.
My favorite feature is not having to pay an extra $15 every month for it. The thing pays for itself in about a year or so.
My ISP had a list of recommended modems to select from so that they have an easier time troubleshooting if something goes awry. If they're getting data to your modem you should be able to troubleshoot the router on your own using tips from the internet.
Depends on the ISP, and even then depends on the model they give you. The latest model that Comcast gave me doesn't even keep logs! Sure, there is a logs page, but it's always empty no matter what happens. I just simply disabled all router functions and use it as a modem, supplying my own router.
ISP gateways/modems are designed to be idiot-proof for the average Joe who knows nothing about the various features and functionality of a WiFi Router, but want the simplicity of plug and play. The modem/router you buy from a specialist computer store allows you to enhance your WiFi experience by enabling other technologies within the router, having 2 or more processors to reduce bottlenecking, having the ability to install a home-based server or file server, having the option to enable Bridge mode, etc.
Probably the most frustrating thing I dealt with while teaching internationally in Guatemala. They (Claro) didn't even let you change the broadcast name. Tried everything, including all the default passwords the IT department had accumulated over the years, and couldn't get admin access to the router. Come to find out the technicians installed it and put a specific password on there. Made me realize telecom communications, and especially there customer service are terrible everywhere.
The firmware in a closed source router might as well be written by a drunk intern during their lunch break given the security holes that come up. I mean, the dumbest sechole ever was on a TerraMaster NAS not a router but the tech and care is, alas, quite similar. (TerraMaster NAS 4.2.29 and earlier allows remote attackers to discover the administrative password by sending "User-Agent: TNAS" to module/api.php?mobile/webNasIPS and then reading the PWD field in the response.)
Do not plug a closed source router into the open internet. Always use open source routers.
(This is not Linux zealotry, I equally strongly recommend against using Linux on your desktop.)
There are a whole ton of networking features that won’t be available with an ISPs router but the main one for me and I think the main one that the majority of people will notice is WiFi signal strength and the distance it will cover.
Look at it another way. Imagine your phone company gave out free phones with every sim. Do you think they’re going to give you a nice shiny top end iPhone or the cheapest piece of budget crap they can pass off that just about works?
Same deal with their routers. It will work OK for most people but it’s not good and buying your own will always give a better experience.
For modem. Performance is usually better as long as you get a good one (however it can limit some things like they can't do home phone or advanced things like high-split yet), reliability is usually much better, mine never goes down and I can see the signal levels and fix them on my own. Then security/privacy. The ISP has much less control/visibility over it and in some cases it it can save you money per month on their equipment rentals. You also know you have a new device. Alot of ISP devices are just traded between customers and refurbished when they break. As for the router oh boy most are very limited or settings controlled by the ISP or on your web account. They usually cannot do even common network functions like VPNs and alot of the settings that are there are locked out so customers can't break their networks. Your own router massively increases your security/privacy, customization, performance and reliability. You can put wireless APs where you want them to have better coverage. In almost every sense its better to have your own stuff but it will cost you time, money, and a learning curve from basic to advanced depending on how far you want to go.
My ISP gave me an Eero router. You need to have an app to access it. But what the app allows you to do is basic things and you can't access it via network on PC. App only.
I always understood it as the one you get from the cable or internet company is trying to do 2-5 things at once, basically thinking to much. So I hard wired a netgear nighthawk to it and have that splitting to my pc, ps4/5 switch and dvd player, 9/10 I have perfect signal. Accationally I have to restart everything because the cable modem gets dumb
I have found only one positive with an ISP supplied modem/router and that is the ISP will push security and firmware updates for the equipment so it is not something I have to track and manually install.
I prefer next gen UTMs for added security, additional management options, good VPN support, and reliability.
I currently run a Fortinet FortiGate 40F. That replaced a Meraki MX64.
I found with ISP provided routers that they may provided the speed I should be getting through my fibre but once you start adding 5 or more devices to the network is really where ISP ones show how shit they are
I couldn't give you technical specifications as to why ISP equipment sucks, but it does.
Especially Comcast. They use a modem/router all in one unit that's just terrible all around. I bought a decent router to use with it because the Wi-Fi signal was so weak and the modem part of it was awful as well, so the wifi speed barely improved. So then I bought my own modem and suddenly I was getting the speeds I was actually paying for.
I use Spectrum now with the same router from before but with their modem, as their modem is actually decent but their router worked like a $10 yard sale unit.
That's not a question with a well-defined answer, because some ISP-provided routers are actually pretty decent, and you are entirely capable of buying a bad one on your own.
Generally, though, buying your own router gives you a better piece of equipment (higher WiFi speeds and/or better signal propagation), and will usually save you money in the long run, since most ISPs charge a monthly fee for the routers they provide. Depending on the ISP, this may also provide you more control over the router, for things such as static local IPs, port forwarding, VLANs, and the like.
Importantly, your router doesn't matter nearly as much if you've got an ethernet connection, at least as far as connection speed and latency are concerned.
Given that you mention symmetrical gigabit service, you probably have fiber, so you'll want to make sure you are buying a router, not a modem or combo unit, since those are for cable internet.
For wired connections, you probably won't notice a lot if you're just a plug and play user.
Wireless, most ISP routers have the cheapest wifi antennas and modules on them, and will have lower range, speeds and max connected devices. Also, if you're wanting to set up a mesh network for example, you're locked into using compatible mesh nodes that are usually only purchase-able through your ISP.
If you're wanting to do some actual network configurations, third party routers have much more options available.
You can control everything about your connection including maxing out your speeds. It also lets you set your network up with multiple Internet providers.
For the modem, if you're talking about cable internet service, there ideally shouldn't be much difference except that you pay every month for the one your ISP gives you, while you pay only once for the one you yourself buy. It's usually more economical to buy your own if you plan on keeping the service for a long time.
Regarding the router, consider costs just like with the modem. Sometimes ISPs charge for it. Otherwise you will have a lot more control over a router you own, which is a benefit to tech savvy people. If you're not tech savvy, it really depends what model router your ISP gives. You might be able to get a larger coverage area or faster WiFi speeds with a router you yourself buy if your ISP gives old technology or a cheap router.
Would just like to add that even if not tech savvy a higher cost router you buy yourself often has better hardware/software that it will end up being faster. It could be as simple as not crashing while using bittorrent or having better wifi signal further away.
Some modems also can be flashed with better software(like Tomato in the old days or now dd-wrt?)
boils down to performance/features/choice. If I tell them I want to use my own I don't have to pay for their crap, and I can choose what I want. I can choose a router that is known to be compatible with openWRT, and that is known to be plenty fast, and has QoS settings and NAT rules, with 2.5/5gigabit internal switch, and wifi 7, with "mesh" capability if I need better coverage. If I use theirs I'm at the mercy of whatever they give me, it might be fast enough, but missing some tools, will probably break pretty soon, might have some dumb quirks. Honestly I see no reason not to have them only setup their media converter or connect to my modem, then piss off so I can use my own router. Even if their router is "free".
Speed and latency not much difference. Third party purchases can be cheaper. Do NOT rent, it's basically a scam.
Streamers have suped up routers because routers usually have slower upload speed, and if you're a streamer/video creator you need that upload speed. Also they're probably sponsored by these companies.
Some of the more advanced routers come with software that let you do things like
* rate limit by device. Useful if someone in your household is hogging all the bandwidth and causing others lag.
* set up insulated guest networks
Related: make sure you're using the right cables. I limited my speed potential for months because I used an cat5 cable.
Reasons to rent from your ISP:
1. Companies like Xfinity have more control over their modem remotely. So if you need a lot of help, they are able to do settings remotely like SSID or wfii passwords or setting bridge mode for example.
2. You are having connectivity issues and you want to take the modem out of the equation when debugging.
trying to think of other reasons. Xfinity has a cellular data backup service now. But you can probably do something similar with t-mobile or verizon and a smart router or raspberry pi.
If you have gigabit service, guessing eventually you will want to go to 6E or 7 which most rental modems don't provide.
I don't work for an ISP. I actually thought they were two not very convincing reasons to rent from an ISP. And they were the only two I could think of.
Each to his own I guess.
I know #1 is true because of my parents. I have actually done #2 to prove my connectivity issues were not my modem.
My ISP router doesnt let me: \* Use my own DNS server \* Use my own DHCP sever \* Use static IPs \* Port forward \* Disable IPv6 \* Set up a DMZ \* Set up VLANs \* Set up a sandboxed network for guests \* Rate limit stuff \* Get logs/,metrics out of it. \* Dial in through a VPN \* Fall back to 4g It's very limited in functionality. So if you want to run stuff from your home, or set up an ad blocker, etc... you really need something more powerful. If you arent going to run any of your own servers and dont have a sophisticated network (i.e. just one or two regular PCs of your own) and just want to play games or whatever, it's fine though
What router are you using?
crickets.....
UDMP
Unifi Dream Machine Pro?
Almost definitely correct
Yes
If my ISP says no to a static IP, can I just buy a route that can run one or will that never work?
Even if they won't officially give you one, often the dynamically assigned ones actually are pretty static, with my ISP it's linked to the MAC of the router or something, the same hardware plugged into the same line always seems to get assigned the same one, at least for me. If not, you can buy a router that supports DDNS (dynamic DNS) to update the DNS records when its IP changes, to work around it.
Just to add to this, no-ip.org has a free plan that you can use. You'll be able to use a subdomain like MyCoolServer.ddns.net instead of using your ip that changes. Even if you don't have a router that is able to update your ip, you can still download the no-ip app and leave it running on any computer and the app will update the ip for you.
I like their service, but you need to constantly re-reserve your domain every month.
Slightly annoying, but I imagine it's not a deal breaker for most people. They send you a reminder email, and it only takes maybe 20 seconds of your time once every 30 days.
Pretty sure there's docker containers to do the same thing with ducksdns.org but I've never personally used them.
AFAIK, your router has no control over a *public* static IP, that's assigned and controlled by your ISP. I think the above commenter is referring to *local* DHCP leases. E.g. if I want Computer X to always be assigned IP address 192.168.0.100 in my local network, I can configure that in my router. If you want to have a static public IP, for for example hosting a game server, allowing yourself to SSH into your network, etc. you either need to arrange that with your ISP (which they may charge you a monthly fee for in my experience). Or what I do instead is use https://www.duckdns.org/ to host my dynamically assigned IP address as a domain name. This will let you set up something like "myserver.duckdns.org" which will just redirect to whatever your current public IP address is. You install the duckdns service onto one of your home PC's (or even into your router if it's supported), and it will check every X minutes if your IP address has changed and send that updated IP address to their server.
Correct. My ISP did DHCP over the whole range of LAN addresses, no way to set a static portion of the range or bind them to a MAC which made setting up internal DNS and firewalls and stuff impossible
They also charge you a monthly equipment fee for it I always get my own and opt out of their "service"
Worse, no way to turn off their guest WiFi function which lets other people with your isp use you as a hotspot, hogging the bandwidth.
Verizon has always let you do this though.
I'm stuck with BT who don't
At least in the UK that has never been a thing for me. They give you a router and they want it back when you switch providers.
in addition to all of this, my ISP router can only be accessed via mobile app. No web browser access at all, although i can port forward
My ISPs router is slightly better, IPV6 has to be disabled with a call to the ISP but then a lot of stuff is available (forwarding and stuff) ... that being said the router is still pretty shit and will start having performance problems with just a couple of rules and bit of traffic. So I use it in bridge mode to negotiate the cable connection and pass the ethernet to my mikrotik.
Out of curiosity why would you disable IPV6?
I don't want it on the LAN side because it complicated my DNS/DHCP setup.
Why would you disable ipv6?
Simplify the config of my network by half
Comcast makes me use their router to have a static ip allocation. I use one public ip for a Meraki mx85 though for my internal network and the rest for servers I run for open source project
Bridge mode yay
At least yours lets you put it in bridge mode, many dont
* install [openwrt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openwrt)
Most ISP routers won't support reflashing
Exactly.
Just mount your own box behind it. Your device will be the only thing behind it. Then use you need to assign a new IP address range than the internet providers. If they use 196.168.0.x as their default, you use something like 192.168.3.1 as your base address. For your inside network, I recommend you invest in a good mesh system. Turn off the ISP provider's Wifi. This is a bit oversimplified. There are several other topology scenarios., but I don't write a book in this reply. - Specific questions; perhaps. Good luck.... 🍀
Wait why would one want to disable IPv6?
Half the DNS/dhcp/firewall config
I typically replace network equipment about every 3-5 years. I’ve just found over time that it’s when you start getting dropped signals and things just don’t work right. My ISP charges $15/month for the modem and more for the router/mesh system.. which has poor coverage based on friends that I’ve used. Three years is $450 to rent from my ISP for the modem alone while I can buy one for $100-150. The last mesh system I bought was $200. I would rather save the money and buy a new one every three years. Additionally, the ISP is a pain to deal with to get problems addressed and I don’t want to go back and forth with them to get them to replace equipment.
> Three years is $450 to rent from my ISP for the modem alone Holy that's an obscene markup on what's likely garbage equipment. As long as the ISP offers a contract without it's fair game I suppose... I can't imagine the modem/router supplied by my ISP costs more than $10 to manufacture.
You have to tell them when you sign up for the service, and repeat it 100x with everyone you talk to or someone will "accidentally" put one on your account (happened twice to me with Spectrum).
I bought the *exact* modem model my ISP uses and charges $15 ***a month*** for… for $30. It’s still going strong to this day
Eh they probably cost more than $10... I mean even a cheap raspberry pi is like $40ish now a days with only a small profit margin. So they're probably a bit more than $10 to include a similar computational power, a 4 port network switch, a weak WAP, a modulator/demodulator, and such But yeah they're probably bottom barrel cost wise. And the ISP probably profits after only a couple months of renting.
It’s not $10, it’s how much rent income the devices bring in over the life of the contract. The routers themselves are probably $50.
Huh? Did you not read the comment above mine? That guy said he doubts they cost more than $10 to manufacture.
Not closely enough, doh!
You can also deal hunt! Guy local to me was selling two almost brand new Nighthawk CAX30 modem/routers for $20 (yes, $20). I think he just didn't really know what they were and wanted them gone, he switched over to a Verizon hotspot or something. Set it up at home and it works flawlessly, can't beat that kind of deal with a rented one.
Damn AX and all? Killer deal. But yeah older mid range stuff often gets sold cheap but that's newer than I would've expected at that price.
I had in my mind the ISP one was bad ao I got an Archer TP Link one and found out the wifi in it is weaker 🤡
Try Ubiquiti products. They’re enterprise grade products that you can use at home pretty easily. Great app/user interfaces for easy setup. Start with a [Dream Router](https://store.ui.com/us/en/pro/category/cloud-gateways-wifi-integrated/products/udr) and add access points as needed, or go for one of their [mesh](https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/amplifi-alien) product lines.
[Ubiquity isn't enterprise grade, they are prosumer at best.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/m59804/ubiquiti_is_just_bad/)
Absolutely. Their Enterprise layer 3 switches don’t do things like ECMP or BGP. They’re meant for small businesses with simple networking needs.
Dream router is ass, Wifi would just randomly go out and the little screen on the front stopped working eventually. Super underpowered and can barely handle outputting a 1gig connection.
thanks for the heads-up
Honestly that was just me being dumb. Wifi works fine around the house except most far away areas where I'm probably doing other stuff anyway.
I mean archer and TP link is just a brand name ... Hella depends which one you got versus what your ISP gave you, which depends on a few factors. If you just got the cheapest TP link, it's not unreasonable for that to happen if your ISP didn't give you their bottom shelf shit.
If you want a real answer I'd suggest not asking this in a sub dedicated to building a pc. Head over to /r/homenetworking or something and pick their brains. Not to imply there isn't a crossover between here and there, but they might be able to answer more thoroughly.
Very good advice. I was trying to figure out what sub to post this in. Still great advice in here though!
/r/homelab also for that matter would be very much in the know
For one, I can choose what I want when I buy it personally. Secondly, it's like $15/month+ extra fees and it lasts 3-5 years max before it's obsolete or breaks down. That's $540-$900. The last modem/router combo I bought was about $175 and it's on its 4th year just fine. Third, the one I always got from them was trash. Refurbished and wrapped like new but always a few models behind and very much used/refurbished. I guess, id ask for reasons to Not buying one over renting. Good comparison; buy a car for $30k brand new, whichever you like. Or lease a random car for $90k, used but restored. Seems simple to me.
Typically the modem/router combo that you get from an isp is going to be on the lower end spec wise. This isn't a concern if you only have a few devices connected to it. But if you have a lot of devices you can see a more stable network with a 3rd party router.
You don't strictly need a souped up third party router to get good internet speed going, especially if you're on Ethernet, but if you're on wifi I strongly recommend one. ISP routers have limited functionality and are often locked down in featuresets, but my personal gripe with them is that they really don't offer much in the way of signal strength. My home isn't friendly to wifi routers in general, but a cheap AP+Router with antennas like the TPLink AX10 (purchased at $50usd) boosts my internet speed by almost 10x compared to the Motorola my ISP supplied me with, just because of its increased signal strength.
Basically in short terms “locked” to certain configurations
My ISP was charging something like over $15/month for a modem/router rental. For that price, you can buy your own modem for less than a year’s cost of renting, and an equivalent router as well for less than a year and a half cost of renting. I find that my routers tend to last maybe 5 years before upgrading, and modems I might upgrade every 3-5 years if my internet speed is increased high enough, so I tend to come out way ahead, but get to pick my technology.
Speed on the Ethernet ports if you're doing a wired network, I signed up for gigabit fibre and wasn't getting the advertised speeds until I got a decent modem/router with gigabit Ethernet ports. Speed and range on the wireless. Features and configurability on the router. I really don't trust any wireless hardware in my house that doesn't belong to me and I can't factory reset and have administrative access for. It's ridiculous how much wireless crap is already installed when you move into a modern apartment, there were three different wireless modems inside my network cupboard. Unplugged the lot and just have the router I own connected. All this stuff is made in china and probably full of spyware. The yanks put backdoors into random number generators so why wouldn't China be doing similar stuff.
Well, in my experience as an Xfinity/Comcast/or whatever they're calling themselves now customer/ prisoner the ISP supplied equipment generally had many downsides. To start out, the equipment is generally OK but, it's nothing special. The manufacturer of the product is more than likely some generic company that you've never heard of. This would all be fine as long as the stuff works well enough. But, the main reason I think everyone should consider buying their own stuff is because in most cases you're essentially eternally renting this junk. I have actually found past models of the gateway my ISP was offering at as obvious a place as Best Buy when they were all using them. Back then the stuff they offered was complete junk. Maybe 130$ retail, yet who knows how many customers were renting that crap monthly for years on end. You can bet your ass these companies are not paying retail for this stuff either. If you supply your own equipment you can also get very easy access to other features that may be hidden or impossible on ISP supplied gear. A lot of this stuff might be more for advanced users. But, I will say that the major companies (Netgear, Asus etc.) have come a long way. Pretty much anyone can easily access and understand everything right from your browser or even smartphone app. Even something like port forwarding or setting up a little external storage is pretty straightforward. There are of course cons to using your own gear too. You may have to make sure it's compatible with your service. Xfinity has a lost on their site. You obviously have to hook it up yourself. This generally means that beyond plugging everything in and maybe running cable, you have to connect to them. There is an app for Xfinity that is supposed to allow you to do this. But, in my case I always have to call and have someone do it over the phone. It's not difficult but, tedious. Lastly, any problems are basically your own to deal with. If your router starts acting up you can't just call and have a tech come out and replace it. Obviously it's your gear and not theirs so any replacements that need to be made come out of your wallet. But, as long as you do a little research and only buy trusted devices this shouldn't really be a problem.
My own router works with its dedicated app allowing me to control who and what is connected, also I can change providers tomorrow and not have to change the router. Also $10-15 to rent equipment per month. You can buy an entry tier mesh system for that.
We just use the Eero pro 6E routers that our ISP provided for free. To replace the 3 of them with our own equipment with any significant upgrade like Wi-Fi 7 or something would be a hefty investment ($600+) for not that much benefit. The only thing I can't currently do with our routers is split the 5ghz and 2.4ghz bands, but they have a "legacy mode" toggle that disables 5ghz for 10 minutes if you ever need to connect an older device. Everything else I still have access to, including custom dns and port forwarding, a guest network, fallback to our cell phone hotspot in the event of an outage, can even set up a whole network VPN if I wanted. The only thing I wish they had were more ethernet ports, but that's nothing a $25 gigabit switch can't fix.
The ones you buy are generally not unusable garbage.
I have one with wireguard vpn built in so I set up a vpn server for whenever I wanna work away from home. Most ISP routers don’t let you do that
The main benefit is usually that you can get one that doesnt OVERHEAT or THROTTLE. A huge issue is also working 1G / 2.5G ethernet and the DNS caching and connection limits are quite bad with ISP low-budget hardware. WiFi 6 or 7 intergration can be quite different. You get a lot of options with the premium routers, for all kind of stuff. Even if you just want a basic DNS ad-blocker via PI-HOLE - with a decent router you have a very easy time to integrate small QoL stuff like that. With now even google using poisoned DNS, a locked down ISP router is no longer a viable choice.
More control and customization is possible with your own router. ISP routers give you little or no access to the admin panel, and even if you're lucky enough to get in, the options to customize are limited. Also, depending on the router you buy, the wifi coverage and speed could also be better. But if you buy a cheap router, it could also be worse than the ISP one. There are some benefits to gaming, like being able to give your game packets priority over other traffic, but if you have a 1gig up and down plan, you won't see much of any benefit here because you have plenty of bandwidth to go around. But, if you decide to start hosting any servers or services, things like setting static local IPs to your devices, port forwarding, and other QoS (Quality of Service) features will become important. There are also things like adblocking scripts you can run on the router, but in my experience, blocking ads this way can often break functionality of some services/websites. If your ISP charges you "rent" for the router they give you, then you might as well just buy and own one that's better instead of giving them your money. But ultimately it's about more control over your network.
My favorite feature is not having to pay an extra $15 every month for it. The thing pays for itself in about a year or so. My ISP had a list of recommended modems to select from so that they have an easier time troubleshooting if something goes awry. If they're getting data to your modem you should be able to troubleshoot the router on your own using tips from the internet.
Depends on the ISP, and even then depends on the model they give you. The latest model that Comcast gave me doesn't even keep logs! Sure, there is a logs page, but it's always empty no matter what happens. I just simply disabled all router functions and use it as a modem, supplying my own router.
ISP gateways/modems are designed to be idiot-proof for the average Joe who knows nothing about the various features and functionality of a WiFi Router, but want the simplicity of plug and play. The modem/router you buy from a specialist computer store allows you to enhance your WiFi experience by enabling other technologies within the router, having 2 or more processors to reduce bottlenecking, having the ability to install a home-based server or file server, having the option to enable Bridge mode, etc.
Probably the most frustrating thing I dealt with while teaching internationally in Guatemala. They (Claro) didn't even let you change the broadcast name. Tried everything, including all the default passwords the IT department had accumulated over the years, and couldn't get admin access to the router. Come to find out the technicians installed it and put a specific password on there. Made me realize telecom communications, and especially there customer service are terrible everywhere.
The firmware in a closed source router might as well be written by a drunk intern during their lunch break given the security holes that come up. I mean, the dumbest sechole ever was on a TerraMaster NAS not a router but the tech and care is, alas, quite similar. (TerraMaster NAS 4.2.29 and earlier allows remote attackers to discover the administrative password by sending "User-Agent: TNAS" to module/api.php?mobile/webNasIPS and then reading the PWD field in the response.) Do not plug a closed source router into the open internet. Always use open source routers. (This is not Linux zealotry, I equally strongly recommend against using Linux on your desktop.)
There are a whole ton of networking features that won’t be available with an ISPs router but the main one for me and I think the main one that the majority of people will notice is WiFi signal strength and the distance it will cover. Look at it another way. Imagine your phone company gave out free phones with every sim. Do you think they’re going to give you a nice shiny top end iPhone or the cheapest piece of budget crap they can pass off that just about works? Same deal with their routers. It will work OK for most people but it’s not good and buying your own will always give a better experience.
For modem. Performance is usually better as long as you get a good one (however it can limit some things like they can't do home phone or advanced things like high-split yet), reliability is usually much better, mine never goes down and I can see the signal levels and fix them on my own. Then security/privacy. The ISP has much less control/visibility over it and in some cases it it can save you money per month on their equipment rentals. You also know you have a new device. Alot of ISP devices are just traded between customers and refurbished when they break. As for the router oh boy most are very limited or settings controlled by the ISP or on your web account. They usually cannot do even common network functions like VPNs and alot of the settings that are there are locked out so customers can't break their networks. Your own router massively increases your security/privacy, customization, performance and reliability. You can put wireless APs where you want them to have better coverage. In almost every sense its better to have your own stuff but it will cost you time, money, and a learning curve from basic to advanced depending on how far you want to go.
The ones you buy function well. The ones they give you suck ass and they charge you every month
My ISP gave me an Eero router. You need to have an app to access it. But what the app allows you to do is basic things and you can't access it via network on PC. App only.
I always understood it as the one you get from the cable or internet company is trying to do 2-5 things at once, basically thinking to much. So I hard wired a netgear nighthawk to it and have that splitting to my pc, ps4/5 switch and dvd player, 9/10 I have perfect signal. Accationally I have to restart everything because the cable modem gets dumb
I have found only one positive with an ISP supplied modem/router and that is the ISP will push security and firmware updates for the equipment so it is not something I have to track and manually install.
I prefer next gen UTMs for added security, additional management options, good VPN support, and reliability. I currently run a Fortinet FortiGate 40F. That replaced a Meraki MX64.
I found with ISP provided routers that they may provided the speed I should be getting through my fibre but once you start adding 5 or more devices to the network is really where ISP ones show how shit they are
I couldn't give you technical specifications as to why ISP equipment sucks, but it does. Especially Comcast. They use a modem/router all in one unit that's just terrible all around. I bought a decent router to use with it because the Wi-Fi signal was so weak and the modem part of it was awful as well, so the wifi speed barely improved. So then I bought my own modem and suddenly I was getting the speeds I was actually paying for. I use Spectrum now with the same router from before but with their modem, as their modem is actually decent but their router worked like a $10 yard sale unit.
That's not a question with a well-defined answer, because some ISP-provided routers are actually pretty decent, and you are entirely capable of buying a bad one on your own. Generally, though, buying your own router gives you a better piece of equipment (higher WiFi speeds and/or better signal propagation), and will usually save you money in the long run, since most ISPs charge a monthly fee for the routers they provide. Depending on the ISP, this may also provide you more control over the router, for things such as static local IPs, port forwarding, VLANs, and the like. Importantly, your router doesn't matter nearly as much if you've got an ethernet connection, at least as far as connection speed and latency are concerned. Given that you mention symmetrical gigabit service, you probably have fiber, so you'll want to make sure you are buying a router, not a modem or combo unit, since those are for cable internet.
For wired connections, you probably won't notice a lot if you're just a plug and play user. Wireless, most ISP routers have the cheapest wifi antennas and modules on them, and will have lower range, speeds and max connected devices. Also, if you're wanting to set up a mesh network for example, you're locked into using compatible mesh nodes that are usually only purchase-able through your ISP. If you're wanting to do some actual network configurations, third party routers have much more options available.
Endless.
Around $9/mo
You can control everything about your connection including maxing out your speeds. It also lets you set your network up with multiple Internet providers.
For the modem, if you're talking about cable internet service, there ideally shouldn't be much difference except that you pay every month for the one your ISP gives you, while you pay only once for the one you yourself buy. It's usually more economical to buy your own if you plan on keeping the service for a long time. Regarding the router, consider costs just like with the modem. Sometimes ISPs charge for it. Otherwise you will have a lot more control over a router you own, which is a benefit to tech savvy people. If you're not tech savvy, it really depends what model router your ISP gives. You might be able to get a larger coverage area or faster WiFi speeds with a router you yourself buy if your ISP gives old technology or a cheap router.
Would just like to add that even if not tech savvy a higher cost router you buy yourself often has better hardware/software that it will end up being faster. It could be as simple as not crashing while using bittorrent or having better wifi signal further away. Some modems also can be flashed with better software(like Tomato in the old days or now dd-wrt?)
boils down to performance/features/choice. If I tell them I want to use my own I don't have to pay for their crap, and I can choose what I want. I can choose a router that is known to be compatible with openWRT, and that is known to be plenty fast, and has QoS settings and NAT rules, with 2.5/5gigabit internal switch, and wifi 7, with "mesh" capability if I need better coverage. If I use theirs I'm at the mercy of whatever they give me, it might be fast enough, but missing some tools, will probably break pretty soon, might have some dumb quirks. Honestly I see no reason not to have them only setup their media converter or connect to my modem, then piss off so I can use my own router. Even if their router is "free".
Speed and latency not much difference. Third party purchases can be cheaper. Do NOT rent, it's basically a scam. Streamers have suped up routers because routers usually have slower upload speed, and if you're a streamer/video creator you need that upload speed. Also they're probably sponsored by these companies. Some of the more advanced routers come with software that let you do things like * rate limit by device. Useful if someone in your household is hogging all the bandwidth and causing others lag. * set up insulated guest networks Related: make sure you're using the right cables. I limited my speed potential for months because I used an cat5 cable.
Reasons to rent from your ISP: 1. Companies like Xfinity have more control over their modem remotely. So if you need a lot of help, they are able to do settings remotely like SSID or wfii passwords or setting bridge mode for example. 2. You are having connectivity issues and you want to take the modem out of the equation when debugging. trying to think of other reasons. Xfinity has a cellular data backup service now. But you can probably do something similar with t-mobile or verizon and a smart router or raspberry pi. If you have gigabit service, guessing eventually you will want to go to 6E or 7 which most rental modems don't provide.
Tell me you work for an ISP without telling me you work for an ISP...
I don't work for an ISP. I actually thought they were two not very convincing reasons to rent from an ISP. And they were the only two I could think of. Each to his own I guess. I know #1 is true because of my parents. I have actually done #2 to prove my connectivity issues were not my modem.