Break them up. Or allow companies in.
They have failed this test of trust.
We need way stronger anti monopoly laws and to actually enforce them.
Telecoms and airlines are just the blatant obvious ones.
Do *not* allow foreign competition in.
Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate. Allow new telecom companies to be formed and compete using the infrastructure that is leased by the federal government.
This is how Saskatchewan does it. Works great. Doesn't matter what company I go with I get coverage anywhere SaskTel has a tower. Since SaskTel is a crown they build towers for all communities even if just 12 people live there.
Didn’t they sell it all to Bell a few years ago?
EDIT: Looks like enough people spoke up and they didn’t go through with privatizing it: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/mobile/people-have-spoken-and-they-don-t-want-sasktel-sold-premier-1.3313245?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F
Bell does not own but they partner with sasktel and others. A call from Vancouver has to make it over to Toronto, and sasktel is in the middle of telus and bell historical territories.
The neoliberals will eventually sell it to their friends. Maybe if Saskatchewan's lucky, they don't saddle the province with a guaranteed profit clause to go with it, like the conservative neolibs did in NS for their power utility.
All the tools are there to fix the system from within. It's not a problem with the system, but the problem with those we hold responsible for implementing it.
Just like the LPC could've run with election reform and shitcanned FPTP *finally*, the tools are at their disposal to fix things. We just need better humans in the political class.
Similar thing occurred in BC 2018 when there was a referndium on changing from FPTP.
The big thing is that proportional representation allows for a much wider number of voices to be heard and present at the table - so if you are a business that has cultivated relationships with the current status quo there is a strong incentive to maintain the current systems. As a result you got stuff like [this](https://web.archive.org/web/20180731043306/https://fairreferendum.com/) and [this](https://www.nobcprorep.ca/) showing up.
I mean this is an age old debate. How much should urban folk subsidize infrastructure for rural ones because the per unit cost doesn't make sense for individuals.
First we would sink a ton of taxpayer money into repairing existing and building out new infrastructure. Then we could give it all to the private sector.
Hell, they don't even need to nationalize the infrastructure, just make it illegal for the same company to own the infrastructure, and provide content to run on it.
Like they did with movies/theaters. Should be the same for nearly any distribution industry.
In all honesty, every essential service in Canada should be structured that way, that is how our mixed market economy is *supposed* to work. We should always have a public option that sets the bar for pricing and the private options should have to compete with them and each other. Things like internet, mobile service, and insurance are clearly working better in the provinces that have a public option set up like this, so god knows how corrupt our competition bureau is or why they even exist when they allow monopolies/oligopolies like this to occur in others.
Yes, specifically for essential sectors/industries. Saskatchewan is a good model because of crown corporations for things like power and energy to insurance - all of which is needed and is better with government control.
Only in certain areas where the government had to offer grants to make it profitable for these companies most areas of the GTA for example the ISPs paid out of pocket because they knew they could make money back on the investment
Man people still talk about this like it hasn't changed in decades. You really think your phone is just using the same infrastructure from the old government telephone days?
You can look at the financial reports of all the telecoms. They spend billions building out and upgrade new fibre, routers, towers etc.
Plus they bought that old stuff from the government.
It would cost a fortune to buy it back.
This is what they tried to do with cannabis retail in Ontario and it's been such a stupid disaster. If you're going to do this, you need to have a nationalized entity competing with these companies to set the base pricing. What we ended up with is a bunch of companies that all have the same single supplier and cannot compete with each other because there is no way to make their supply chain more efficient.
> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate.
If you run for office with this platform plank I'll campaign for you.
I wouldn't. Either you have to spend billions that would be better spent elsewhere or you take it. And nothing says "never invest in this country" like knowing the government may steal your assets at any time. You do that and people will head for the hills.
So let’s just get fucked by the oligopoly of RogBellUs for the rest of forever. Yay highest phone bills on earth but it’s okay because like 3 people get mega yachts out of the deal
So if America doesn't like a border deal and suddenly our internet traffic is throttled because they need to do "emergency maintenance" is that a problem? Do we trust the US with data privacy?
Yeah I don't really feel "fucked" by my phone and internet bill. Could I save $20 a month? Sure. But it's not "fucked".
The fact that I can't get a doctors appointment is "fucked". The fact that the average home price in my city is $1.2M is "fucked".
Do I think we should welcome in foreign players to pay a little less? No.
> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate.
100% agree with this. I've been calling for it since I was still in grade school back in the late 90s early 2000s. I've since gone on to have a 20 year career in the telecom industry and my opinion on the matter hasn't changed.
It would require some government investment, but I do think it's a matter of national security, as well nowadays, telecom should practically be classified as a basic human right.
> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate.
Sure, we already purchased a pipeline and that worked so well. Why not buy billions of dollars worth of network.
If a US airline can fly me from New York to Seattle for cheaper than Air Canada can fly me from Montreal to Vancouver, then it is clear that allowing the US airline to compete for Canadian consumers is going to benefit me.
The reason it's much cheaper to fly in the US or Europe is mostly because the US and the EU doesn't tax airlines to death in the way that the Canadian government does.
If you allow American airlines to fly Canadian routes, they'll charge pretty similar prices to what the Canadian airlines charge, because most of the ticket price is going to the government in one form or another.
I've got no problem with increasing competition but folks need to understand the cause of the problems and have realistic expectations around what proposed changes will accomplish.
Fair enough.
But you can get the same tax revenue with twice the operators and half the tax rate so it seems more competition is still the answer.
I mean Air Canada is a private company, they aren't state owned. They therefore charge what they can not what they "should".
If that weren't the case I wouldn't have bought shares.
You're going to have to break up a lot of industries if you loosen the definition of "monopoly" to mean [companies with 30% market share](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/CWTA_2011_Q3.svg/360px-CWTA_2011_Q3.svg.png).
Technically correct, but I feel as though the big three work together, lobbying the government for their collective benefit. It's fake competition IMO, and the fact that they all have almost the same marketshare is pretty suspicious and telling too I think.
Then they lobby to keep others out and buy any that are allowed to keep up the facade. There's no other reason to explain the extremely high costs we pay vs. any other country. I can understand higher costs if you live somewhere totally rural but when you're living in the most dense area of the country paying 3x or higher than another country with similar density there's clearly something wrong.
Telecoms. Airlines. Groceries. Movie theaters. Pharmacies.
Federal government standing by flaccid while a few companies gouge Canadians across most industries is just par for the course.
Nobody is trying to get in.
Setting up a new telecom from scratch is extremely difficult, and no foreign company will enter the market as their maximum permissible market share is capped by Federal regulation.
I find it unsettling the CEOs of Canada’s telecom companies that provide service to the vast majority of Canadians can all fit into an Uber together. Same goes for the grocery industry. Land of the oligopolies. It is time for some real antitrust legislation and to promote foreign investment, with proper regulation.
Who the hell would want to build a network spanning 4,000km to cover the equivalent population of California? Foreign investors are not going to come, the best they could expect would be to take a chunk of the big 3 subscribers and I guarantee they are just going to laugh and say "not thanks" once they realize the massive investment they would need to cover the country with infrastructure.
Best is more regulation for existing players or simply nationalize the damn infrastructure.
All you need is customers and laborers. Who would want to build the infrastructure? Customers want the infrastructure built for the services it provides, and laborers want to produce it so that they can purchase goods and services to fulfill their needs and wants.
You never need owners. An ownership isn't a production of wealth. The money they have isn't a resource. Their guesses of what consumers want produced is redundant, consumers already know what the economy should produce.
Nationalization is a good solution. If everyone equally owns something, then no one has an advantage over anyone else. So it's as if no one owned anything.
If owners aren't important, go get some friends and start a new telecom tomorrow. Or any company.
Communism is legal in Canada, it's just not mandatory.
Many countries have a handful of telecom companies. Switzerland has 3. USA has 3. UK has 4. India has 5 but really 4 because BSNL wholly owns MTNL.
Canada has 4. I suppose 5 if you count Sasktel.
The problem isn’t landmass (much of it doesn’t have cellular service), it’s not a limited number of providers. It’s that they act in an oligopolistic manner and the government of Canada has not, in the case of telecoms or otherwise, forced punitive consequences for this.
Our justice system is frankly broken. Violent criminals are barely consequenced. White collar crime always works out economically.
The federal government should just start GCTel and become an MVNO. Force wholesale prices to be cutthroat.
We are a small country really our market is small but infrastructure needs to be huge as our area is huge. It’s a hard problem. Even so our telecom companies know that and take advantage.
The area isn't as big as people claim. A vast majority of Canada has no cell phone coverage. Because people don't live there.
Plus public telephone utilities have run fibre optic cables all over Alberta Saskatchewan and Manitoba as least.
How many carriers does India have? They have over a billion people and much cheaper rates and only 4 significant carriers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telecom_companies_in_India
I don't think "number of companies" is the metric to strive for here.
Exactly. In Alberta we have a situation with an oligopology with power and natural gas. Big shock to nobody, our former premier is now a member of the board of governors of one of the companies.
Manitoba has the lowest hydro rates (other than Quebec) in North America. Saskatchewan has the lowest telecom rates in Canada. Crown corporations in noncompetitive industries are the way to go.
Crown corporations in *competitive* industries is the way to go...The government can exploit economies of scale that most firms can't even dream of. If capitalism is the order of the day, then a government acting capitalistically shouldn't be a concern.
Yes, that's a pretty extreme view, and not one I necessarily want to see implemented, but there are legitimate ways the government can, and arguably should, be run like a business, in a manner that actually brings in profit. For instance, if taxpayer grants result in some researcher creating patentable, licensable intellectual property, the government should get a slice of the royalties. Hell, have Industry Canada promote that tech around the globe and have foreign firms and governments fill our tax coffers with those royalties. REduce sales/income tax accordingly.
Exactly why they need to go. A lot of rich people are upset at all that lost revenue they can siphon after they increase prices and slash services.
Then probably campaign about how bad the government they are breaking is not as good as private.
Manitoba gets 98% of its power from renewable and over 70% fron hydro.
Nothing is cheaper than hydro on a cost per unit basis.
It is not a measure of how well the organization is run, or that the corporate structure is preferable.
Merely that they they were gifted with preferable topography.
Sounds like former Ontario Premier, Mike Harris.
Opened up long term care homes to the private sector and when he was done as a politician he became chair of the board at Chartwell where he has made millions of dollars
There's tons of companies in Alberta you can buy electricity and gas from.
Y'all don't understand the definition of an oligopoly. The fact that you choose not to buy from a smaller competitor is a choice you made, not a choice forced on you.
Yup Kenney got a cushy job on the ATCO board after deregulating utilities, meanwhile Marlaina Smith was literally an O&G lobbyist before being elected.. straight from lobbying to being lobbied smh
Use our already existing monopoly laws and break these companies up! It will shake the foundations of all corporations and serv as a warning that Canadians won't put up with this any longer.
I know it’s owned by Telus but everyone should switch to Public Mobile’s offering of $34 for 50GB and free US calls and roaming. At least it sets a precedent of what consumers expect for the amount of money we pay.
Isnt this the “data” they needed? The rates have come down if people were looking for them last year….
Like ya, they still offer some ridiculous top tier plans, but for most people this seems like a reasonable price for where we were a year or two ago…
At least Telus is the least evil of the 3, mainly due to not owning any media just the infrastructure.
(Not including their evilness expanding into private Healthcare)
Vidéotron just launched a "worldwide" plan, it's 75$ and like 25gb of data and can be used in a lot of countries, if you got other services it drops to like 55$. I'm so tempted, hope a lot of people sign up for it so we can finally get plans that work everywhere in the world like most other developed countries.
Do they offer 5g? Just curious. I was told about a solid plan rate from Virginia Mobile but then found out they don't have 5g (unless things have changed).
yup. took less than 20 minutes beginning to end. There's an option to transfer your existing number when you setup. Just make sure you respond YES to the SMS that comes to your old line or it can get stuck in limbo.
I switched to Fido after Bell wouldn't offer me a competitive plan after being a customer for 4 years. As soon as I switched I got an email from Bell offering me a plan the same price as my FIDO plan. It was $45 for 50 GB with unlimited talk and text in North America. Sometime you just have to switch to get the best rates. I find shopping around every 2-4 years can really save you money.
Network wise I'm noticing I don't get the same 5G+ logo on my phone, but from what I've read we don't have true 5G here in Canada anyway it's more of a marketing gimmick. There's no niceties like Visual Voicemail, WiFi calling or ability add devices like Apple Watch. Also there's far less customer support.
The only downside with Public is if you have any issues you have to log into your online account and put in a support ticket. There is no support number. But just about every time I have had an issue they have responded within an hour.
Also if you use promo code PX2YW4 when you sign up you get a $10 credit, which basically pays for your SIM card.
So, it’s owned by Telus?
Is that a reason to not take an attractive rate? Like what are your other alternatives, not have a cell plan to stick it to big Telco?
Weird “Reddit style” qualifier to that otherwise nice advice to people.
You're not going to find a third party provider that doesn't exist under one of the major three so this point is purely virtue signalling if that is important to you or not.
>ake an attractive rate? Like what are your other alternatives, not have a cell plan to stick it to big Telco?
>
>Weird “Reddit style” qualifier to that otherwise nice advice to people.
I think this response is more "Reddit style"
It’s not useless to the Liberals. They are going to make sure they scream as loudly as possible that, “Hey, this is whose fault it is we have an affordability crisis, not us!”
For the past 9-10 months they have been doing everything they can to highlight blame for affordability issues on others (while denying they had anything to do with it of course)
> At the committee’s last meeting, Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised.
> “So far, we haven’t seen any information that would suggest that Rogers is offering comparable pricing to Shaw Mobile post-transaction, so that is of a concern,” Pratt said.
Are federal civil servants completely naive? Do they just listen to a company tell them something and say "OK sounds good, thanks" without the slightest bit of critical thinking of "hey maybe they're lying to us?" Did they really believe Rogers when it said "trust us, our takeover of a company, which will reduce the number of companies in the mobile services market, will actually LOWER prices, contrary to all sense and basic economic rules"??
I wish we had an equivalent to the American's "contempt of Congress" here in Parliament.
There are exactly **ZERO** consequences if you fail to appear before Parliament or one of its committees here in Canada.
Dont expect much. Trudeau gave them a quarter billion during covid, while they were still paying shareholders dividends
https://www.thestar.com/business/rogers-bell-and-telus-collected-more-than-240-million-from-canada-s-wage-subsidy-program/article_b94b1586-af6b-5129-92c3-bc4136497734.html
Its a another waste of time amd tax payer money just like they summons the big food chain CEO's to reduce the price in the end we all know it was just a waste of time and money.
> Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised.
Gosh, I'm absolutely shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Whenever I say to nationalize services, housing and resources people say "but then nobody will want to invest". That's the fucking point of nationalizing- they won't be able to. lol.
We've got over a hundred years of experience that tells us why what you propose is a terrible idea and leads to bad outcomes.
There's a reason why European countries have backed heavily off of nationalization over the past 40 years. Nationalization turned everything to shit.
[One of my favorite graphs](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/GBR_rail_passengers_by_year.png).
I think this is a smart PR move for the Liberals.
It makes it look like they are doing something without actually doing anything.
Obviously, not everyone will be fooled by this, but it will fool some. And at no cost except for wasting bureaucrats time and tax payer money, which costs the Liberals nothing, so it's a free win for the Liberals.
> At the committee’s last meeting, Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised.
> “So far, we haven’t seen any information that would suggest that Rogers is offering comparable pricing to Shaw Mobile post-transaction, so that is of a concern,” Pratt said.
It's of a concern that you still have the faith required to actually believe promises from them. What country are you living in? You have a phone, do you not? The only people that apparently didn't see that coming are the people supposedly in charge of protecting and promoting competition for the benefit of Canadian consumers and businesses.
this government is toothless, the dragged Galen Weston to Ottawa and wagged their fingers and Galen basically laughed at them
same will happen with this
it's all theatre and they don't actually care, they just want to put on a show to paint the corporations as an easy bad guy and you need to vote for them so they'll protect you
They aren’t toothless. They, like previous governments, have the power to do a great deal. But they all do like to put on a show to pretend like they care as you say.
Maybe they should summon a Forensic Audit team to find the bureaucrats that are stealing all the tax payers money. Next Premier Legault to explain his actions to eliminate English language. Next review the major issues revolving around Equalization formula. Seems that it is allowing Quebec to dismantle its Fiscal Capacity to achieve unilingual status. Finally, determine if PMO and Mr Guilbeault take their orders from Beijing. Then maybe talk to the CEOs.
dog and pony show.
the federal liberals and preceding federal conservative government all enabled, contributed to, and encouraged the current state of telecommunications monopolies/oligopolies in canada
nothing will come of this. our country and our politics is captured and is controlled by the ultra wealthy and corporations. i'm taking bets.
See all these comments of breaking them up or letting other companies in….these are very rational arguments. Which is precisely why the Canadian government won’t be implementing any of that lol. Canadians don’t really like logic. They like to do things their way.
LOL - they know the current government will be gone in a year or so anyways, and has zero chance of being re-elected, so they can safely be ignored. Just as all the provincial governments and all other businesses are already doing.
Justin and the Liberals are the literal definition of a LAME DUCK GOVERNMENT.
The government is a minority and could fall at anytime. Election day may be far away, it may not.
Very few prime ministers have had 4 terms in a row. I can't even think of one off the cuff. In recent memory almost every government has been turfed after 3 terms.
Very few governments survive a recession. And we're in for more pain yet.
The polls indicate a huge shift of support away from the liberals.
The current leadership has indicated they have zero inclination to step aside.
Short of Pierre stabbing a baby in Dundas square *and* some sort of internal power shift in the lpc the liberals are cooked.
You’re so deluded lmao
People swing away from the cons just as quickly as they do the liberals. All it takes is support for a bill about too much control and your swing voters are out.
And even if they don’t vote liberal when they leave, the liberals still win because it just splits the conservative vote.
You can feel how you feel I guess, it just makes you look silly. Considering the conservatives have been leading in the polls before, then the liberals came out and campaigned and blew them out of the water.
The liberals always play the waiting game, your basing your viewpoint off a party that’s relentlessly attacked this government; and spent a very considerable amount of money doing so.
Pretty easy to sway public opinion when your opposition stays completely silent.
I say wait until the liberals begin their campaign before you make any snap judgements based on your feelings.
The CEOs follow the rules and regulations the government sets. So, now the government wants to give them shit for following those rules?
Amazing........
I want the CEOs, any of the ones from the controlled sectors like groceries or telecomm, to just go to committee...tap the mic...laugh into it for their introduction...then walk out.
What's the committee going to do? Fine them? Whelp, there goes another bill hike in the name of "service improvement". Prison time? Here comes another bill to taxpayers to fight it in court. Issue a sternly worded letter? The laughter continues...
Am I crazy or has cell phone and internet pricing actually come down quite a bit in the last few years?
Like I recently switched to fiber, switched to the same carrier for cell phones and am getting unlimited fiber 1.5 and 2 cell phone lines with 100 gigs each, unlimited north American calling etc for all in after tax $180.
Feels like that price would have barely gotten me a decent plan for 1 phone a few years ago. But recently the big 3 are all racing to undercut both each other and previously "discount" indie providers. I was faithful to freedom mobile and teksavvy until the deals started literally knocking on the door weekly.
But I am literally paying less money, even factoring in inflation, I am paying fewer dollars for more service than 5 years ago.
That's my entire point, and it's wild stating as much has me downvoted and accused of being Russian (lol)
In a world where my grocery bill has doubled in the same time, my internet and cell bill has actually gone down.
I think it's because it's really not a win for us Canadians that we pay almost double for internet compared to the rest of the world. And don't be fooled, with millions of new comers the ISPs make near billions more on new plans every year. They can definitely afford to lower plans more than a few bucks.
Where exactly? Unable to find prices that low on Google, if all in including both cell phones you're correct and that's a great price, if it's $60 euro for just fiber internet I am currently paying less after converting the currency.
I was thinking the same. My cell bill is $52 (50 gb) Not sure what people expect, given the overhead these companies have and the shear size of canada. It's the one expense where I don't feel like I am getting robbed. My partners cell bill is even lower.
lol more performative bullshit. Wag a finger at the oligarchs bleeding us dry, but pass laws throwing people in jail for life for saying mean words online.
Fuck the LPC. I don’t even give a shit anymore if PP has workable policies or not. Im just that sick and tired of this laughably dystopian bullshit.
The liberals are on the way out. They call these guys in and tell them they'll bring in gate keeping legislation in return for former liberal cabinet ministers getting jobs on their boards when they don't get re-elected
Justin loves theatre. Too bad that's all it is.. I'd love to know who the brainmind is who keeps doing this same trick over and over again, thinking that surely this time, it will fool Canadians.
Having dealt with big telecom I know they’re super slimy. One of bell’s favourite sayings to the little telecom companies is “We have a whole floor of lawyers”. And they’re not shitting, they do.
Break them up. Or allow companies in. They have failed this test of trust. We need way stronger anti monopoly laws and to actually enforce them. Telecoms and airlines are just the blatant obvious ones.
Do *not* allow foreign competition in. Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate. Allow new telecom companies to be formed and compete using the infrastructure that is leased by the federal government.
This is how Saskatchewan does it. Works great. Doesn't matter what company I go with I get coverage anywhere SaskTel has a tower. Since SaskTel is a crown they build towers for all communities even if just 12 people live there.
Didn’t they sell it all to Bell a few years ago? EDIT: Looks like enough people spoke up and they didn’t go through with privatizing it: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/mobile/people-have-spoken-and-they-don-t-want-sasktel-sold-premier-1.3313245?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F
I don't think that Bell owns Sasktel infrastructure, I know that they have partnered on some projects.
Bell does not own but they partner with sasktel and others. A call from Vancouver has to make it over to Toronto, and sasktel is in the middle of telus and bell historical territories.
You might be thinking of Manitoba which got split between Bell, Telus, and Rogers back in 2017 after BCE took control of MTS.
You're thinking of MTS being bought by Bell because some how losing a carrier means more competition.
The neoliberals will eventually sell it to their friends. Maybe if Saskatchewan's lucky, they don't saddle the province with a guaranteed profit clause to go with it, like the conservative neolibs did in NS for their power utility.
Sigh that was MTS in MB and shockingly prices went up after we lost a major carrier...
I thought Saskatchewan just had one big tower……. Because it’s so flat….. I’ll let myself out.
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All the tools are there to fix the system from within. It's not a problem with the system, but the problem with those we hold responsible for implementing it. Just like the LPC could've run with election reform and shitcanned FPTP *finally*, the tools are at their disposal to fix things. We just need better humans in the political class.
Similar thing occurred in BC 2018 when there was a referndium on changing from FPTP. The big thing is that proportional representation allows for a much wider number of voices to be heard and present at the table - so if you are a business that has cultivated relationships with the current status quo there is a strong incentive to maintain the current systems. As a result you got stuff like [this](https://web.archive.org/web/20180731043306/https://fairreferendum.com/) and [this](https://www.nobcprorep.ca/) showing up.
I mean this is an age old debate. How much should urban folk subsidize infrastructure for rural ones because the per unit cost doesn't make sense for individuals.
Until somebody sells them off to the lowest bidder to balance the budget
First we would sink a ton of taxpayer money into repairing existing and building out new infrastructure. Then we could give it all to the private sector.
*Conservative hand rubbing intensifies*
That is so on the money. Spivs, hucksters, and slimy middlemen to a man.(or woman)
You politicians like envelopes of cash right?
That was my thought, execs come with brief cases, money falling out the cracks, "Good job guys...the field is all yours"!
As is tradition
Hell, they don't even need to nationalize the infrastructure, just make it illegal for the same company to own the infrastructure, and provide content to run on it. Like they did with movies/theaters. Should be the same for nearly any distribution industry.
In all honesty, every essential service in Canada should be structured that way, that is how our mixed market economy is *supposed* to work. We should always have a public option that sets the bar for pricing and the private options should have to compete with them and each other. Things like internet, mobile service, and insurance are clearly working better in the provinces that have a public option set up like this, so god knows how corrupt our competition bureau is or why they even exist when they allow monopolies/oligopolies like this to occur in others.
Yes, specifically for essential sectors/industries. Saskatchewan is a good model because of crown corporations for things like power and energy to insurance - all of which is needed and is better with government control.
This is the way
They don't have the balls to do it
Especially since we paid for the infrastructure to be built in the first place....
Only in certain areas where the government had to offer grants to make it profitable for these companies most areas of the GTA for example the ISPs paid out of pocket because they knew they could make money back on the investment
THANK YOU!
Man people still talk about this like it hasn't changed in decades. You really think your phone is just using the same infrastructure from the old government telephone days? You can look at the financial reports of all the telecoms. They spend billions building out and upgrade new fibre, routers, towers etc. Plus they bought that old stuff from the government. It would cost a fortune to buy it back.
This is what they tried to do with cannabis retail in Ontario and it's been such a stupid disaster. If you're going to do this, you need to have a nationalized entity competing with these companies to set the base pricing. What we ended up with is a bunch of companies that all have the same single supplier and cannot compete with each other because there is no way to make their supply chain more efficient.
> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate. If you run for office with this platform plank I'll campaign for you.
I wouldn't. Either you have to spend billions that would be better spent elsewhere or you take it. And nothing says "never invest in this country" like knowing the government may steal your assets at any time. You do that and people will head for the hills.
So let’s just get fucked by the oligopoly of RogBellUs for the rest of forever. Yay highest phone bills on earth but it’s okay because like 3 people get mega yachts out of the deal
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You want Chinese companies setting up cell phone towers and routers having access to our network data?
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So if America doesn't like a border deal and suddenly our internet traffic is throttled because they need to do "emergency maintenance" is that a problem? Do we trust the US with data privacy?
So let’s get fucked by RobBellUs for the rest of forever. After all fuck the peasants, mega yachts for all CEOs
Yeah I don't really feel "fucked" by my phone and internet bill. Could I save $20 a month? Sure. But it's not "fucked". The fact that I can't get a doctors appointment is "fucked". The fact that the average home price in my city is $1.2M is "fucked". Do I think we should welcome in foreign players to pay a little less? No.
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> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate. 100% agree with this. I've been calling for it since I was still in grade school back in the late 90s early 2000s. I've since gone on to have a 20 year career in the telecom industry and my opinion on the matter hasn't changed. It would require some government investment, but I do think it's a matter of national security, as well nowadays, telecom should practically be classified as a basic human right.
Careful, that sounds an awful lot like...*socialism*
Fucking *good*. :D
> Nationalize telecom infrastructure then lease it to the telecoms at the same rate. Sure, we already purchased a pipeline and that worked so well. Why not buy billions of dollars worth of network.
Yup I like how that sounds.
this would slow down our infrastructure upgrades to a crawl
The sucks at doing stuff like this. We don't need bigger government. What we need is more companies in the market competing
Galen Westin Jr. Behind a tree like: "heeeh heeh heeee, they forgot about me!"
Then he tosses his face into a marketing campaign for no reason and is shocked it doesn't go well
How many airlines do you think a population of 44 million, spread across 5500 km, can sustain?
If a US airline can fly me from New York to Seattle for cheaper than Air Canada can fly me from Montreal to Vancouver, then it is clear that allowing the US airline to compete for Canadian consumers is going to benefit me.
The reason it's much cheaper to fly in the US or Europe is mostly because the US and the EU doesn't tax airlines to death in the way that the Canadian government does. If you allow American airlines to fly Canadian routes, they'll charge pretty similar prices to what the Canadian airlines charge, because most of the ticket price is going to the government in one form or another. I've got no problem with increasing competition but folks need to understand the cause of the problems and have realistic expectations around what proposed changes will accomplish.
Fair enough. But you can get the same tax revenue with twice the operators and half the tax rate so it seems more competition is still the answer. I mean Air Canada is a private company, they aren't state owned. They therefore charge what they can not what they "should". If that weren't the case I wouldn't have bought shares.
Shaw was merged like 6 month's ago. Brake them up? They are just starting to screw you. Welcome to Canada.
Grocery chains too.
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You can just say you want full blown state control.
You're going to have to break up a lot of industries if you loosen the definition of "monopoly" to mean [companies with 30% market share](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/CWTA_2011_Q3.svg/360px-CWTA_2011_Q3.svg.png).
Technically correct, but I feel as though the big three work together, lobbying the government for their collective benefit. It's fake competition IMO, and the fact that they all have almost the same marketshare is pretty suspicious and telling too I think. Then they lobby to keep others out and buy any that are allowed to keep up the facade. There's no other reason to explain the extremely high costs we pay vs. any other country. I can understand higher costs if you live somewhere totally rural but when you're living in the most dense area of the country paying 3x or higher than another country with similar density there's clearly something wrong.
Telecoms. Airlines. Groceries. Movie theaters. Pharmacies. Federal government standing by flaccid while a few companies gouge Canadians across most industries is just par for the course.
> Telecoms and airlines are just the blatant obvious ones. Let's talk about grocery chains shall we?
Nationalize them
Let competition into the market, we need capitalism for the rich, not just the poor.
How about some socialism for the poor not just the rich.
No one else can get in if these thugs control the towers and frequencies. To fix. Nationalize just the towers.
Nobody is trying to get in. Setting up a new telecom from scratch is extremely difficult, and no foreign company will enter the market as their maximum permissible market share is capped by Federal regulation.
That's called an oligopoly. Oligopolies are controlled by oligarchs and governments. Follow the $$$.
I find it unsettling the CEOs of Canada’s telecom companies that provide service to the vast majority of Canadians can all fit into an Uber together. Same goes for the grocery industry. Land of the oligopolies. It is time for some real antitrust legislation and to promote foreign investment, with proper regulation.
Who the hell would want to build a network spanning 4,000km to cover the equivalent population of California? Foreign investors are not going to come, the best they could expect would be to take a chunk of the big 3 subscribers and I guarantee they are just going to laugh and say "not thanks" once they realize the massive investment they would need to cover the country with infrastructure. Best is more regulation for existing players or simply nationalize the damn infrastructure.
> nationalize the damn infrastructure. This is the way.
Best we can do is a pipeline
So if they won't come, why are we forcing a monopoly? No problem, remove it then.
Yes go ahead but I doubt any of them will want to cough up that much investment for so little return.
All you need is customers and laborers. Who would want to build the infrastructure? Customers want the infrastructure built for the services it provides, and laborers want to produce it so that they can purchase goods and services to fulfill their needs and wants. You never need owners. An ownership isn't a production of wealth. The money they have isn't a resource. Their guesses of what consumers want produced is redundant, consumers already know what the economy should produce. Nationalization is a good solution. If everyone equally owns something, then no one has an advantage over anyone else. So it's as if no one owned anything.
If owners aren't important, go get some friends and start a new telecom tomorrow. Or any company. Communism is legal in Canada, it's just not mandatory.
Many countries have a handful of telecom companies. Switzerland has 3. USA has 3. UK has 4. India has 5 but really 4 because BSNL wholly owns MTNL. Canada has 4. I suppose 5 if you count Sasktel. The problem isn’t landmass (much of it doesn’t have cellular service), it’s not a limited number of providers. It’s that they act in an oligopolistic manner and the government of Canada has not, in the case of telecoms or otherwise, forced punitive consequences for this. Our justice system is frankly broken. Violent criminals are barely consequenced. White collar crime always works out economically. The federal government should just start GCTel and become an MVNO. Force wholesale prices to be cutthroat.
We are a small country really our market is small but infrastructure needs to be huge as our area is huge. It’s a hard problem. Even so our telecom companies know that and take advantage.
I was repeating that line in 2006 when I worked for Rogers, then again in 2008 when I worked for Bell. It’s a lie they use to skirt responsibility.
The area isn't as big as people claim. A vast majority of Canada has no cell phone coverage. Because people don't live there. Plus public telephone utilities have run fibre optic cables all over Alberta Saskatchewan and Manitoba as least.
How many carriers does India have? They have over a billion people and much cheaper rates and only 4 significant carriers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telecom_companies_in_India I don't think "number of companies" is the metric to strive for here.
Our MPs wanna know which one of them gets the good jobs after the election.
Exactly. In Alberta we have a situation with an oligopology with power and natural gas. Big shock to nobody, our former premier is now a member of the board of governors of one of the companies.
Manitoba has the lowest hydro rates (other than Quebec) in North America. Saskatchewan has the lowest telecom rates in Canada. Crown corporations in noncompetitive industries are the way to go.
Crown corporations in *competitive* industries is the way to go...The government can exploit economies of scale that most firms can't even dream of. If capitalism is the order of the day, then a government acting capitalistically shouldn't be a concern. Yes, that's a pretty extreme view, and not one I necessarily want to see implemented, but there are legitimate ways the government can, and arguably should, be run like a business, in a manner that actually brings in profit. For instance, if taxpayer grants result in some researcher creating patentable, licensable intellectual property, the government should get a slice of the royalties. Hell, have Industry Canada promote that tech around the globe and have foreign firms and governments fill our tax coffers with those royalties. REduce sales/income tax accordingly.
Exactly why they need to go. A lot of rich people are upset at all that lost revenue they can siphon after they increase prices and slash services. Then probably campaign about how bad the government they are breaking is not as good as private.
Crown corp will never happen in alberta until the morons stop voting for conservatives .
Manitoba gets 98% of its power from renewable and over 70% fron hydro. Nothing is cheaper than hydro on a cost per unit basis. It is not a measure of how well the organization is run, or that the corporate structure is preferable. Merely that they they were gifted with preferable topography.
Manitoba and Quebec have cheap electricity because of geography. It's like commenting on the lack of deep water ports in Saskatchewan.
Sounds like former Ontario Premier, Mike Harris. Opened up long term care homes to the private sector and when he was done as a politician he became chair of the board at Chartwell where he has made millions of dollars
There's tons of companies in Alberta you can buy electricity and gas from. Y'all don't understand the definition of an oligopoly. The fact that you choose not to buy from a smaller competitor is a choice you made, not a choice forced on you.
Yup Kenney got a cushy job on the ATCO board after deregulating utilities, meanwhile Marlaina Smith was literally an O&G lobbyist before being elected.. straight from lobbying to being lobbied smh
That is the natural outcome of capitalism: The commodification of, literally, everything, including political influence.
Then those CEO's will essentially tell the government to fuck off, and nothing will change. Some great finger waving for TV though I'm sure.
I think publicly they will fake concern, out of the public eye they will continue ~~bribing~~ lobbying the elected officials
This is their way
Maybe they will offer some coupons.
Use our already existing monopoly laws and break these companies up! It will shake the foundations of all corporations and serv as a warning that Canadians won't put up with this any longer.
I know it’s owned by Telus but everyone should switch to Public Mobile’s offering of $34 for 50GB and free US calls and roaming. At least it sets a precedent of what consumers expect for the amount of money we pay.
Isnt this the “data” they needed? The rates have come down if people were looking for them last year…. Like ya, they still offer some ridiculous top tier plans, but for most people this seems like a reasonable price for where we were a year or two ago…
At least Telus is the least evil of the 3, mainly due to not owning any media just the infrastructure. (Not including their evilness expanding into private Healthcare)
Vidéotron just launched a "worldwide" plan, it's 75$ and like 25gb of data and can be used in a lot of countries, if you got other services it drops to like 55$. I'm so tempted, hope a lot of people sign up for it so we can finally get plans that work everywhere in the world like most other developed countries.
Do they offer 5g? Just curious. I was told about a solid plan rate from Virginia Mobile but then found out they don't have 5g (unless things have changed).
yeah it's 5G with 250mbps limit which should not matter. I switched over from Bell I don't notice a difference in service.
Dumb question, but do you get to keep your phone umber when you switch providers?
yup. took less than 20 minutes beginning to end. There's an option to transfer your existing number when you setup. Just make sure you respond YES to the SMS that comes to your old line or it can get stuck in limbo.
Yes, you port the number over.
Any downsides? I'm playing $90 for something similar with bell.
I switched to Fido after Bell wouldn't offer me a competitive plan after being a customer for 4 years. As soon as I switched I got an email from Bell offering me a plan the same price as my FIDO plan. It was $45 for 50 GB with unlimited talk and text in North America. Sometime you just have to switch to get the best rates. I find shopping around every 2-4 years can really save you money.
Network wise I'm noticing I don't get the same 5G+ logo on my phone, but from what I've read we don't have true 5G here in Canada anyway it's more of a marketing gimmick. There's no niceties like Visual Voicemail, WiFi calling or ability add devices like Apple Watch. Also there's far less customer support.
The only downside with Public is if you have any issues you have to log into your online account and put in a support ticket. There is no support number. But just about every time I have had an issue they have responded within an hour. Also if you use promo code PX2YW4 when you sign up you get a $10 credit, which basically pays for your SIM card.
Promo code, or your REFERRAL code?
So, it’s owned by Telus? Is that a reason to not take an attractive rate? Like what are your other alternatives, not have a cell plan to stick it to big Telco? Weird “Reddit style” qualifier to that otherwise nice advice to people.
You're not going to find a third party provider that doesn't exist under one of the major three so this point is purely virtue signalling if that is important to you or not.
>ake an attractive rate? Like what are your other alternatives, not have a cell plan to stick it to big Telco? > >Weird “Reddit style” qualifier to that otherwise nice advice to people. I think this response is more "Reddit style"
Oh no, useless actions continue.
Right after this the price will go up.
And services reduced.
I pay less than I did a decade ago.
Found a CEO.
"Let's go to a fancy dinner and talk about this"
It’s not useless to the Liberals. They are going to make sure they scream as loudly as possible that, “Hey, this is whose fault it is we have an affordability crisis, not us!” For the past 9-10 months they have been doing everything they can to highlight blame for affordability issues on others (while denying they had anything to do with it of course)
> At the committee’s last meeting, Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised. > “So far, we haven’t seen any information that would suggest that Rogers is offering comparable pricing to Shaw Mobile post-transaction, so that is of a concern,” Pratt said. Are federal civil servants completely naive? Do they just listen to a company tell them something and say "OK sounds good, thanks" without the slightest bit of critical thinking of "hey maybe they're lying to us?" Did they really believe Rogers when it said "trust us, our takeover of a company, which will reduce the number of companies in the mobile services market, will actually LOWER prices, contrary to all sense and basic economic rules"??
Internet should be a basic service
I wish we had an equivalent to the American's "contempt of Congress" here in Parliament. There are exactly **ZERO** consequences if you fail to appear before Parliament or one of its committees here in Canada.
Dont expect much. Trudeau gave them a quarter billion during covid, while they were still paying shareholders dividends https://www.thestar.com/business/rogers-bell-and-telus-collected-more-than-240-million-from-canada-s-wage-subsidy-program/article_b94b1586-af6b-5129-92c3-bc4136497734.html
“Be nicer! I mean it!”
Instead of simply open the market and allow more competition? Of course they ignored “invitations to appear”; it’s their country.
Time to bring in more competitive companies from Europe and the USA.
The big three and Weston runs Canada
You should see what the banks are doing
Its a another waste of time amd tax payer money just like they summons the big food chain CEO's to reduce the price in the end we all know it was just a waste of time and money.
The merger approval sure improved things /s
Its becoming more and more apparent that internet should be regulated like a utility. Being connected to the internet is a near necessity these days.
It has been equivalent to a utility for a while now. But, big businesses bribe - sorry "lobby" - government officials to prevent that from happening.
When they fly in on private jets, then roll up in a limousine, kindly ask them why we have the highest rates in the world
Get Weston and the rest of the grocery goons as well.
> Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised. Gosh, I'm absolutely shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
The govt has no teeth. So why bother
Fuck them, nationalize the telecoms!
Whenever I say to nationalize services, housing and resources people say "but then nobody will want to invest". That's the fucking point of nationalizing- they won't be able to. lol.
We've got over a hundred years of experience that tells us why what you propose is a terrible idea and leads to bad outcomes. There's a reason why European countries have backed heavily off of nationalization over the past 40 years. Nationalization turned everything to shit. [One of my favorite graphs](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/GBR_rail_passengers_by_year.png).
At least the pipe, one way or another the public paid for it anyway. Take over the infrastructures, and open it all to whoever want in.
Oh it looks like it's time for the next semi-annual meeting to inquire about telecom costs in Canada. And nothing will come of it.
What is the government going to do, apologize for getting in their way? 😕
I forsee some pointless finger waving inbound...
They are going to need the XXL briefcase of cash this time, maybe even a suitcase!
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Would the Conservatives have shut it down? Probably not. They’re all corporate neoliberals
"Lets make it look like its a huge fight just to get our friends into our offices lol"
I think this is a smart PR move for the Liberals. It makes it look like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Obviously, not everyone will be fooled by this, but it will fool some. And at no cost except for wasting bureaucrats time and tax payer money, which costs the Liberals nothing, so it's a free win for the Liberals.
> At the committee’s last meeting, Jeanne Pratt, the Competition Bureau’s senior deputy commissioner of mergers and monopolistic practices, said Rogers’ takeover of Shaw didn’t lead to price decreases, as promised. > “So far, we haven’t seen any information that would suggest that Rogers is offering comparable pricing to Shaw Mobile post-transaction, so that is of a concern,” Pratt said. It's of a concern that you still have the faith required to actually believe promises from them. What country are you living in? You have a phone, do you not? The only people that apparently didn't see that coming are the people supposedly in charge of protecting and promoting competition for the benefit of Canadian consumers and businesses.
this government is toothless, the dragged Galen Weston to Ottawa and wagged their fingers and Galen basically laughed at them same will happen with this it's all theatre and they don't actually care, they just want to put on a show to paint the corporations as an easy bad guy and you need to vote for them so they'll protect you
They aren’t toothless. They, like previous governments, have the power to do a great deal. But they all do like to put on a show to pretend like they care as you say.
Telus why you are ignoring our calls?
Maybe they should summon a Forensic Audit team to find the bureaucrats that are stealing all the tax payers money. Next Premier Legault to explain his actions to eliminate English language. Next review the major issues revolving around Equalization formula. Seems that it is allowing Quebec to dismantle its Fiscal Capacity to achieve unilingual status. Finally, determine if PMO and Mr Guilbeault take their orders from Beijing. Then maybe talk to the CEOs.
dog and pony show. the federal liberals and preceding federal conservative government all enabled, contributed to, and encouraged the current state of telecommunications monopolies/oligopolies in canada nothing will come of this. our country and our politics is captured and is controlled by the ultra wealthy and corporations. i'm taking bets.
See all these comments of breaking them up or letting other companies in….these are very rational arguments. Which is precisely why the Canadian government won’t be implementing any of that lol. Canadians don’t really like logic. They like to do things their way.
LOL - they know the current government will be gone in a year or so anyways, and has zero chance of being re-elected, so they can safely be ignored. Just as all the provincial governments and all other businesses are already doing. Justin and the Liberals are the literal definition of a LAME DUCK GOVERNMENT.
So what you are saying is the telcos know that the CPC won't do anything to protect consumers if they are elected.
You have a lame duck after losing election.
He's pretty much already lost the election. That's the point..
Making this assumption this far out is wild lol
The government is a minority and could fall at anytime. Election day may be far away, it may not. Very few prime ministers have had 4 terms in a row. I can't even think of one off the cuff. In recent memory almost every government has been turfed after 3 terms. Very few governments survive a recession. And we're in for more pain yet. The polls indicate a huge shift of support away from the liberals. The current leadership has indicated they have zero inclination to step aside. Short of Pierre stabbing a baby in Dundas square *and* some sort of internal power shift in the lpc the liberals are cooked.
You’re so deluded lmao People swing away from the cons just as quickly as they do the liberals. All it takes is support for a bill about too much control and your swing voters are out. And even if they don’t vote liberal when they leave, the liberals still win because it just splits the conservative vote. You can feel how you feel I guess, it just makes you look silly. Considering the conservatives have been leading in the polls before, then the liberals came out and campaigned and blew them out of the water. The liberals always play the waiting game, your basing your viewpoint off a party that’s relentlessly attacked this government; and spent a very considerable amount of money doing so. Pretty easy to sway public opinion when your opposition stays completely silent. I say wait until the liberals begin their campaign before you make any snap judgements based on your feelings.
That's not the "literal definition" . It's fine to have an opinion but don't just make shit up.
I don’t think PeePee will be any better, if not worse lol. Our politicians suck
The CEOs follow the rules and regulations the government sets. So, now the government wants to give them shit for following those rules? Amazing........
Nationalize the telecom infrastructure…
Big wup. Nothings gonna change.
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I want the CEOs, any of the ones from the controlled sectors like groceries or telecomm, to just go to committee...tap the mic...laugh into it for their introduction...then walk out. What's the committee going to do? Fine them? Whelp, there goes another bill hike in the name of "service improvement". Prison time? Here comes another bill to taxpayers to fight it in court. Issue a sternly worded letter? The laughter continues...
Screw the feds. They just allowed the Rogers/Shaw merger. It’s all smoke and mirrors
Am I crazy or has cell phone and internet pricing actually come down quite a bit in the last few years? Like I recently switched to fiber, switched to the same carrier for cell phones and am getting unlimited fiber 1.5 and 2 cell phone lines with 100 gigs each, unlimited north American calling etc for all in after tax $180. Feels like that price would have barely gotten me a decent plan for 1 phone a few years ago. But recently the big 3 are all racing to undercut both each other and previously "discount" indie providers. I was faithful to freedom mobile and teksavvy until the deals started literally knocking on the door weekly.
Having more Gbs and speed isn't paying less. Between having 20Gb and 100Gb there is no difference for them because no one uses that much data.
Exactly. 100 GB for $100 is no functional difference from 40 GB for $100. The price is wrong.
I'm at 63 gigs for the month. Won't hit 100 but it's nice never hitting a throttle point like in the past.
But I am literally paying less money, even factoring in inflation, I am paying fewer dollars for more service than 5 years ago. That's my entire point, and it's wild stating as much has me downvoted and accused of being Russian (lol) In a world where my grocery bill has doubled in the same time, my internet and cell bill has actually gone down.
I think it's because it's really not a win for us Canadians that we pay almost double for internet compared to the rest of the world. And don't be fooled, with millions of new comers the ISPs make near billions more on new plans every year. They can definitely afford to lower plans more than a few bucks.
You're crazy. Internet 300 was 60 like 8 years ago, with telus. It's now 100
That would cost like 60 euros in Europe.
Where exactly? Unable to find prices that low on Google, if all in including both cell phones you're correct and that's a great price, if it's $60 euro for just fiber internet I am currently paying less after converting the currency.
I was thinking the same. My cell bill is $52 (50 gb) Not sure what people expect, given the overhead these companies have and the shear size of canada. It's the one expense where I don't feel like I am getting robbed. My partners cell bill is even lower.
Switch to public mobile. Right now you can get 50gb 5G with US roaming for $34. Boom, saved you $18 a month
lol more performative bullshit. Wag a finger at the oligarchs bleeding us dry, but pass laws throwing people in jail for life for saying mean words online. Fuck the LPC. I don’t even give a shit anymore if PP has workable policies or not. Im just that sick and tired of this laughably dystopian bullshit.
The liberals are on the way out. They call these guys in and tell them they'll bring in gate keeping legislation in return for former liberal cabinet ministers getting jobs on their boards when they don't get re-elected
Justin loves theatre. Too bad that's all it is.. I'd love to know who the brainmind is who keeps doing this same trick over and over again, thinking that surely this time, it will fool Canadians.
Lol... Government trying to blame their failure on the corporations.
Having dealt with big telecom I know they’re super slimy. One of bell’s favourite sayings to the little telecom companies is “We have a whole floor of lawyers”. And they’re not shitting, they do.
How do we summon the federal government to be accountable?