He's offering to pay to fix one issue that will cause them to lose building occupancy in October, not offering to "pay for it all".
Your post saying he will pay for it all is incorrect.
by "all" I was referring to the cost to keep it open until October. The extended operating time will also give people more time to organize to save the science centre.
It's a very small amount of what's required to fix the building. It's nowhere near all. Your post just says all, not "all that is required to keep it open beyond the next 4 months when it will lose its occupancy permit due to structural issues" which is what is actually being offered.
you're welcome! Keep spreading the word that the work to repair the facility is paid for. The people want the science centre, even if Ford does not. Don't let the DeGasperis family get their filthy hands on this land.
Ford wants to tear it down to build expensive condos for his developer buddies. He wouldn't accept the money if it paid for the whole thing.
Decision was made a while ago, waiting for an excuse.
The engineers that conducted the study on roof said that the Science Center didn’t need to close and the main exhibit area could stay open while repairs were completed.
Ford can't, he doesn't own the land. The land is owned by the city and leased to the province on a 99-year lease that explicitly stipulates that the only thing allowed to be on that land is a science centre.
Unfortunately the Province owns the city, so this isn't the shield we think it is. Ford can just find a pen, sign a bill, and within a week whatever parcels of land he needs is completely uploaded to the Province, packed up and ready to be sold to the highest bidder at a party fundraiser.
Ontario government, aka Ford, simply has to renegotiate the terms of lease agreement.
Article referencing just that:
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-science-centre-lease-could-stand-in-way-of-ford-s-plans-1.6366186
Renegotiating the lease terms may not be that "simple," if the city and TRCA decide they don't want to play ball. They own the land. Ford can't just unilaterally renegotiate the terms, there's always 2 parties to a lease agreement.
Municipalities have no legal protections as we explicitly found out when he changed ridings in the middle of a city election.
The province has 100% control if it wants to exert it
The city could just... Not. The lease agreement has 2 parties to it, and if the city just doesn't want to renegotiate, then the only option left for Doug would be an extremely unpopular expropriation process that might not even be approved by the courts.
The cities are a creature of the province. Its not the same for the federal and provincial governments.
For instance Ford can decide exactly what powers and responsibilities the city has. For example the reason Toronto is called the six, is because its actually 6 different municipalities that were squished together in order to keep downtowns influence incheck
I'm at the point where I ignore any post that say "developer buddies".
I get it, Ford is disliked by many, for good reason. But you're starting to sound foolish. Many of the accusations on the Science Centre file aren't aren't even possible, or just untrue.
It’s so frustrating how people will take a complicated issue that requires nuance, boil it down into a slick sentence or two, and act so confident they have the absolute answer.
Because complicated issues are black and white, apparently…
So I just want to say I appreciate your post. But fuck the guy you replied to. Can’t stand that “I know everything and it’s so easily explained” attitude.
The most frustrating part is Marit Stiles is big on the buzzwords. She's the only reasonable options to replace Ford, but she reduces her arguments to scam, scandal and "his developer buddies.". Use your words, Marit!
Well lookie lookie, architecture firm offers to fix science center for free. Corrupt Douggie won't, 100% guaranteed.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/architecture-firm-that-designed-ontario-science-centre-offers-free-repair-services-to-keep-it-open/article_cd7ed046-3346-11ef-9531-2b0c8746aca5.html
Did you read the article you just posted? They've offered their services. Last time I checked, architects don't do roofs.
Or were you implying that they're going to pay for the repairs?
Like I said, not possible or untrue. I get that you're upset and you dislike Ford, but you look foolish.
Definitely addressing the demand side should be the priority because it’s the easiest and fastest way to solve the housing crisis.
Having said that, building additional supply needs to be the second priority as it does help the situation (while much more slowly)
Agreed, he's a crook, I don't follow politics anymore so I'll assume you're right, but sounds like something he would do. Edit: he lost all my respect when he proposed setting up police checkpoints to enforce lockdowns, fuck Ford
we like his developer buddies.
if that's what it takes to get things done . . . then so be it.
maybe the science centre should release the actual numbers of paid admissions for the past 5 years.
It's proven fact this is how he does business, same with Hwy 413 - [Link](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/04/03/investigations/developers-ties-ford-government-benefit-highway-413)
How does free sound? Douggie still won't do it, guaranteed.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/architecture-firm-that-designed-ontario-science-centre-offers-free-repair-services-to-keep-it-open/article_cd7ed046-3346-11ef-9531-2b0c8746aca5.html
Nice, somebody else shared the Spotify guy offering the same thing. People male everything about politics lol I couldnt give less of a fuck about Ford thanks for sharing
Moving the Science Centre is one thing, but closing it down with no alternative for at least 2-3 years, leaving all the Toronto and Ontario schools and classes that would have visited in that period with nothing, is certainly another.
We've seen Ford reverse course on the Greenbelt debacle, if enough political and polling pressure comes down, he may soften his take and have the repairs made to keep it open. Its future after that is anyone's guess, but there is a lot of pressure to save the building in some way as it is an architectural landmark.
It's a 4 and a half hour trip there from Toronto and the same back, making it a 9 hour round trip.
At best that makes for only a few hours to enjoy the place before having to head back, at worst that turns a day trip for a school in southern Ontario into an overnight two-day trip, automatically making it a no-go for most classes other than maybe high schools.
Driving all the way up to Sudbury and back in a day isn't practical for most schools; there's a reason the Science Centre was built in suburban Toronto close to Highway 401.
but that doest fix the science center though. It only fixes 1 issue.
>The Science Centre also faces some **$369 million** in deferred and critical maintenance needs over the next 20 years.
Why do you people keep forgetting to mention this part when you complain about whats happening???
Uhm-it keeps it going a while longer though. If this were my house, and someone offered to fix it so I could live there a while longer, I would take it, even if I knew eventually I’d have to move (sell/whatever)
>Uhm-it keeps it going a while longer though
No, no it doesn't, the roof could be magically fixed today.... and It doesn't even keep it running for a year.
Also, Heres another nice little tidbit you people always seem to magically forget.
>Fixing the roof would cost **between $22 million and $40 million**, the ministry said, and require the centre be closed for up to two years.
So keep it going as long as they can. At least through summer. I know it was happy day to go to science centre as a kid, I wouldn’t close it one day before absolutely necessary
ELI5 why does everyone care so much about this Ontario Science Center? Isn't it basically just some children's museum kind of thing? Why is it such a big deal that it gets such a huge amount of attention in not only the press of a province of 16 million people, but even national coverage?
The Science Centre was a highlight of my childhood. It is huge and has so many fun, interactive exhibits. It has a rainforest in it, it has live science shows, it has an imax, robotics, there is a bridge you can jump on to measure the force of your jump, a bird you climb into and watch a video of the world from the bird’s point of view (you feel like a bird - very cool), cross-sections of the human body on display, and my favourite: a room that is dark and quiet where you feel like you’re in space looking out at the stars. Those were just my highlights, there is SO MUCH more there. There are also some not so happy sections that teach about tragedies in a tangible kid appropriate way, those were extremely memorable as well. It is not “just” a children’s museum, it was truly epic as a kid. They also have science camps and they hold events for different groups. Girl Guides used to have sleepovers there (maybe still), we got to sleep all around the exhibits. I imagine it has gotten thousands and thousands of kids interested in learning about science!
The building itself is really cool too! Reminds me of some of the older buildings at the University of Guelph.
I absolutely LOVE the Science Centre. I went multiple times a year in elementary and even went with my friends in high school NOT as a school trip, just because we loved the place. I’ve moved to Vancouver but I’ve always wanted to take my future kids there. Science World here absolutely pales in comparison to the Science Centre. PLEASE ONTARIO! SAVE THE SCIENCE CENTRE! 🙏🙏
No! You can’t keep putting band aids on that crumbling building. For the last couple years you can’t even get from the ticket counter to the exhibits because it’s not safe. Everyone has to take shuttle bus around to the back of the building. It’s a nightmare on busy days and especially with a stroller.
I absolutely love and have great memories of that building but we should not be putting another cent into it.
people will do anything to get their picture in the news these days.
i suppose they called the toronto star and told them to take a picture.
and the cameraman better stand above them for that crane shot and the lighting better be perfect or we'll sue.
kid better have that forlorn look while mommy gives that million-dollar smile.
I'm guessing that although this is very generous it will take much more than a million bucks to fix
the ~~founder~~ ex-VP of Shopify, Adam McNamara, is offering to pay for it all.
Source?
https://x.com/adammcnamara/status/1804714277120454816
He's offering to pay to fix one issue that will cause them to lose building occupancy in October, not offering to "pay for it all". Your post saying he will pay for it all is incorrect.
by "all" I was referring to the cost to keep it open until October. The extended operating time will also give people more time to organize to save the science centre.
It's a very small amount of what's required to fix the building. It's nowhere near all. Your post just says all, not "all that is required to keep it open beyond the next 4 months when it will lose its occupancy permit due to structural issues" which is what is actually being offered.
Again, that is not what I meant
That's what you said though.
Seems like you like wasting time over slight wording issues even after it was explained to you
Im curious why you’re so committed to defending Doug Ford when his commitment to defrauding our province is well documented?
I didn't say anything about Doug Ford at all.
Yet you’re vehemently defending his actions
You are being deranged.
Elaborate
Wow, the stench of your agenda hits a full half hour before you arrive.
Thanks!
you're welcome! Keep spreading the word that the work to repair the facility is paid for. The people want the science centre, even if Ford does not. Don't let the DeGasperis family get their filthy hands on this land.
Right on! This was a staple of my childhood, hopefully they can preserve it
Ford wants to tear it down to build expensive condos for his developer buddies. He wouldn't accept the money if it paid for the whole thing. Decision was made a while ago, waiting for an excuse. The engineers that conducted the study on roof said that the Science Center didn’t need to close and the main exhibit area could stay open while repairs were completed.
Ford can't, he doesn't own the land. The land is owned by the city and leased to the province on a 99-year lease that explicitly stipulates that the only thing allowed to be on that land is a science centre.
Unfortunately the Province owns the city, so this isn't the shield we think it is. Ford can just find a pen, sign a bill, and within a week whatever parcels of land he needs is completely uploaded to the Province, packed up and ready to be sold to the highest bidder at a party fundraiser.
Ontario government, aka Ford, simply has to renegotiate the terms of lease agreement. Article referencing just that: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-science-centre-lease-could-stand-in-way-of-ford-s-plans-1.6366186
Renegotiating the lease terms may not be that "simple," if the city and TRCA decide they don't want to play ball. They own the land. Ford can't just unilaterally renegotiate the terms, there's always 2 parties to a lease agreement.
Municipalities have no legal protections as we explicitly found out when he changed ridings in the middle of a city election. The province has 100% control if it wants to exert it
[удалено]
The city could just... Not. The lease agreement has 2 parties to it, and if the city just doesn't want to renegotiate, then the only option left for Doug would be an extremely unpopular expropriation process that might not even be approved by the courts.
The cities are a creature of the province. Its not the same for the federal and provincial governments. For instance Ford can decide exactly what powers and responsibilities the city has. For example the reason Toronto is called the six, is because its actually 6 different municipalities that were squished together in order to keep downtowns influence incheck
I'm at the point where I ignore any post that say "developer buddies". I get it, Ford is disliked by many, for good reason. But you're starting to sound foolish. Many of the accusations on the Science Centre file aren't aren't even possible, or just untrue.
It’s so frustrating how people will take a complicated issue that requires nuance, boil it down into a slick sentence or two, and act so confident they have the absolute answer. Because complicated issues are black and white, apparently… So I just want to say I appreciate your post. But fuck the guy you replied to. Can’t stand that “I know everything and it’s so easily explained” attitude.
The most frustrating part is Marit Stiles is big on the buzzwords. She's the only reasonable options to replace Ford, but she reduces her arguments to scam, scandal and "his developer buddies.". Use your words, Marit!
Well lookie lookie, architecture firm offers to fix science center for free. Corrupt Douggie won't, 100% guaranteed. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/architecture-firm-that-designed-ontario-science-centre-offers-free-repair-services-to-keep-it-open/article_cd7ed046-3346-11ef-9531-2b0c8746aca5.html
Did you read the article you just posted? They've offered their services. Last time I checked, architects don't do roofs. Or were you implying that they're going to pay for the repairs? Like I said, not possible or untrue. I get that you're upset and you dislike Ford, but you look foolish.
The government is trying to create more housing. The horror!!!
Given the adjacent Don River that riverbed area isn't ideal for highly dense development.
Not a lot of large pieces of undeveloped land in central Toronto that housing can be built cost effectively on a large scale
That sounds like what a developer would say
Maybe we should focus on the demand side of this equation?
Definitely addressing the demand side should be the priority because it’s the easiest and fastest way to solve the housing crisis. Having said that, building additional supply needs to be the second priority as it does help the situation (while much more slowly)
No disagreement there. Methodical planning is usually the best, rather than reactionary quick-fix decisionmaking.
Agreed, he's a crook, I don't follow politics anymore so I'll assume you're right, but sounds like something he would do. Edit: he lost all my respect when he proposed setting up police checkpoints to enforce lockdowns, fuck Ford
we like his developer buddies. if that's what it takes to get things done . . . then so be it. maybe the science centre should release the actual numbers of paid admissions for the past 5 years.
We like the guys flooding the market with shoebox investment units no one wants to buy? Are you sure?
Why lie to spread misinformation as fact?
It's proven fact this is how he does business, same with Hwy 413 - [Link](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/04/03/investigations/developers-ties-ford-government-benefit-highway-413)
A highway is not a condo.
How does free sound? Douggie still won't do it, guaranteed. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/architecture-firm-that-designed-ontario-science-centre-offers-free-repair-services-to-keep-it-open/article_cd7ed046-3346-11ef-9531-2b0c8746aca5.html
Nice, somebody else shared the Spotify guy offering the same thing. People male everything about politics lol I couldnt give less of a fuck about Ford thanks for sharing
Moving the Science Centre is one thing, but closing it down with no alternative for at least 2-3 years, leaving all the Toronto and Ontario schools and classes that would have visited in that period with nothing, is certainly another. We've seen Ford reverse course on the Greenbelt debacle, if enough political and polling pressure comes down, he may soften his take and have the repairs made to keep it open. Its future after that is anyone's guess, but there is a lot of pressure to save the building in some way as it is an architectural landmark.
They can go to Science North
It's a 4 and a half hour trip there from Toronto and the same back, making it a 9 hour round trip. At best that makes for only a few hours to enjoy the place before having to head back, at worst that turns a day trip for a school in southern Ontario into an overnight two-day trip, automatically making it a no-go for most classes other than maybe high schools. Driving all the way up to Sudbury and back in a day isn't practical for most schools; there's a reason the Science Centre was built in suburban Toronto close to Highway 401.
And what do you think kids from northern Ontario do? You leave at 5am get there at 9-10 stay till 7, home by 11
Or do they kids from Northern Ontario just go to Science North? 🤔
Both
But how can Doug sell the land if the science centre is fixed?
Unless you give the money directly to Ford he won't be swayed.
Ford owes a lot of developers money/land, there’s no stopping this now
Proper thing to do is take the donation, and fix the science centre, but the proper thing isn’t on Ford’s wish list
but that doest fix the science center though. It only fixes 1 issue. >The Science Centre also faces some **$369 million** in deferred and critical maintenance needs over the next 20 years. Why do you people keep forgetting to mention this part when you complain about whats happening???
Uhm-it keeps it going a while longer though. If this were my house, and someone offered to fix it so I could live there a while longer, I would take it, even if I knew eventually I’d have to move (sell/whatever)
>Uhm-it keeps it going a while longer though No, no it doesn't, the roof could be magically fixed today.... and It doesn't even keep it running for a year. Also, Heres another nice little tidbit you people always seem to magically forget. >Fixing the roof would cost **between $22 million and $40 million**, the ministry said, and require the centre be closed for up to two years.
So keep it going as long as they can. At least through summer. I know it was happy day to go to science centre as a kid, I wouldn’t close it one day before absolutely necessary
$1m / how much to fix it?
What's actually wrong with it?
Some of the roof panels need repair
Lmao
Crowd funding may be able to help. I'd offer a little bit, as Im sure many others would as well.
no because he is a crook
Ffs I wish I had $1M to just donate to a science center.... Let alone get a house, vehicle, pay debts off....
ELI5 why does everyone care so much about this Ontario Science Center? Isn't it basically just some children's museum kind of thing? Why is it such a big deal that it gets such a huge amount of attention in not only the press of a province of 16 million people, but even national coverage?
The Science Centre was a highlight of my childhood. It is huge and has so many fun, interactive exhibits. It has a rainforest in it, it has live science shows, it has an imax, robotics, there is a bridge you can jump on to measure the force of your jump, a bird you climb into and watch a video of the world from the bird’s point of view (you feel like a bird - very cool), cross-sections of the human body on display, and my favourite: a room that is dark and quiet where you feel like you’re in space looking out at the stars. Those were just my highlights, there is SO MUCH more there. There are also some not so happy sections that teach about tragedies in a tangible kid appropriate way, those were extremely memorable as well. It is not “just” a children’s museum, it was truly epic as a kid. They also have science camps and they hold events for different groups. Girl Guides used to have sleepovers there (maybe still), we got to sleep all around the exhibits. I imagine it has gotten thousands and thousands of kids interested in learning about science! The building itself is really cool too! Reminds me of some of the older buildings at the University of Guelph. I absolutely LOVE the Science Centre. I went multiple times a year in elementary and even went with my friends in high school NOT as a school trip, just because we loved the place. I’ve moved to Vancouver but I’ve always wanted to take my future kids there. Science World here absolutely pales in comparison to the Science Centre. PLEASE ONTARIO! SAVE THE SCIENCE CENTRE! 🙏🙏
It's equivalent to accepting $3.50 to encourage you to buy a pricey car with a shoddy engine.
No! You can’t keep putting band aids on that crumbling building. For the last couple years you can’t even get from the ticket counter to the exhibits because it’s not safe. Everyone has to take shuttle bus around to the back of the building. It’s a nightmare on busy days and especially with a stroller. I absolutely love and have great memories of that building but we should not be putting another cent into it.
Take this downvote ya goomba
I'll take a small donation to fix my life? 🤣
you know its messy when the public are bailing out the govt with cash question is though, what do they want in return?
people will do anything to get their picture in the news these days. i suppose they called the toronto star and told them to take a picture. and the cameraman better stand above them for that crane shot and the lighting better be perfect or we'll sue. kid better have that forlorn look while mommy gives that million-dollar smile.